Xbox One SoC rivals AMD's Tahiti for size, complexity

We've known the outlines of the Xbox One's AMD-designed SoC for a while now, including its eight Jaguar CPU cores and GCN-class integrated graphics. One of the primary revelations to come out of Hot Chips is the SoC's sheer size: the thing is 363 mm² and is comprised of roughly 5 billion transistors; it's produced at TSMC on a 28-nm HPM process.

To give you a sense of scope, the Tahiti GPU that powers the Radeon HD 7970 is also produced on a 28-nm process at TSMC, and Tahiti packs 4.3 billion transistors into 365 mm²—so the two chips are quite comparable in size.

[NextGen24Gamer]

More and more info and tech analysts keeps coming out about the custom cpu in the xbox one. On top of that, there will be some info within the next few days about the xbox one's gpu & custom chips. There is one console that has been surprising developers who have actually worked on it and not just from looking at the original specs announced months ago. Microsoft has been vague for a reason. Here is a quote from an insider and a link to where it was quoted from. I suggest reading the info contained in the link as it directly pertains to the extent that MS has gone to customize their console.

Quote:

"Insider: The x1 is more powerful.. and it supports games at 2k and full upscale to 4k some games will support 4k later.. ill let you do the maths :)

I will follow up... Any body with a thought in technology and gpu specifications. Will tell you there is no way on earth that a sub low end gpu with 748 shader cores. Is going to be doing any type of justice to a ten year plan. Not only that it couldnt even manage 16 players @ 720p 30fps in bf4. Every part of x1 is a custom silicon. A 100 million dollar budget for the control.. lol fanboys are delusional at this point in time... :)

Misterx: Well, thank you a lot for the info! We should wait more for NDA to expire.
Insider:Yes I would suggest everybody wait.. Hotchips will go into some parts about the silicon. Apu. Oban. And kinect.. there really is more stuff going on.. as kinect has two chips. Then their is Apu+dgpu and the dsp for video and audio. We should get clock speeds and what cpu core specs. and what is modified and why. :)"

http://misterxmedia.livejou...

If you read the link thoroughly, it basically eludes to something that I heard first hand months ago. The custom GPU in the xbox one is actually a dual gpu....Which MS will reveal soon.

Now go ahead and get your popcorn out!!!!!

[Dragonborn312]

I wish I knew more about tech specs. Thanks for the detailed post Elite24Gamer, despite the fact that I do not understand it all it is still very interesting.

[XB1_PS4]

Specs right now seem like they're switching up at every turn for MS. I honestly don't know what to expect.

@Elite24Gamer That link you provided has some of the best reading I've done since reveal.

Sheesh, this is a very surprising quote. I don't know who this Misterx is, but throughout that link he seems to know a lot about hardware.

"Misterx: Xbox One will be the better console at the end even in specs. It already has better looking games. Enjoy the drama Microsoft created for their self. They cannot loose so fast and simple with such a man and money power."

[black0o]

@Elite do u understand the difference between 1k,2k and 4k go and google it
after that if u some how believed that x1 will run games at 2k u need some serious help

and one last thing do u know that dev already played with the x1 right and it's so clear that ps4 has more GPU POWER by 40% not taking the GDDR in the count

FACTS ARE FACTS .. and if MS had a stronger GPU that 'd been the intro of the revel E3/GC they want to sell the product why hid one important selling point

and the guy who wrote that is die hard xbot really "x1 games looks better" dude go play some KZ :P

[black0o]

@disagree
http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

according to AMD

[XB1_PS4]

@black0o If you read what the link says, it's not all about the Apu. Yes the numbers solely based on APU are stacked to Sony. I'm just wondering what the hell is going on inside of that massive chip. 5 billion transistors can hide a lot.

[creatchee]

@black0o

"FACTS ARE FACTS .. and if MS had a stronger GPU that 'd been the intro of the revel E3/GC they want to sell the product why hid one important selling point"

You know, a generation ago, I would agree with you. But Microsoft has been employing a bizarre take on The Art of War in their next-gen strategy. I think that they realized that Sony would be releasing at the same time that they would, and have gone to some obscene lengths to get them to show their hand.

People want to say that Microsoft is lost or doesn't know what they want or whatever. However, and I say this only as a theory and nothing more, what if they knew what they were doing the whole time? The DRM, the 180's, the TV TV TV, the indies etc - what if this was some ploy along the lines of Coke 2 back in the 80's?

They could call the negative outcry and preorder differential a lost battle in a much larger war. Enhance confidence in their enemy only to strike them down when they least expect it. There are two main things left that Sony has the apparent upper hand on - specs and price. If the One actually is more powerful than expected and can trump the PS4 in that department, the price becomes less of an issue and buyers then have to consider the bonuses that One provides (hate to say it, but Kinect, TV, NFL, apps, swapping etc). And I don't mean just initial buyers - I mean for the next ten years.

Of course this is all conjecture and could be nothing at all. Either way, things keep getting more interesting every day until the launches!

[black0o]

@sofresh412 i'm wondering the same then with the 47MB as cash memory and 32MB eSDRAM and a cpu/gpu that's already too many parts and i guess that's why the size is so big

@creatchee ppl lost their jobs star with Adam O. all the way to top
so u r telling me that MS loosing ground for bigger plan this isnt a movie OK. investor will losing money and ppl love to spread bad news faster then the good news .. and finally a lot of 3rd-parties already said that ps4 is more powerful by 40% after the 6% increase in x1's gpu

edit:
so far i only owned PlayStation consoles, but if MS pulled out a 4-5 TF GPU i'd cancel the ps4 at that moment.

look at it this way ''some write this on the site''
PS4 has GPU V8 + GDDR turbo charge + custom GPGPU
X1 has GPU v6 + esdram super charger + custom ?? + 47MB of cash

in term of pure power PS4 has the lead but in term of efficiency X1 has the lead

[creatchee]

@black0o

I agree, it's a ludicrous idea, but business sometimes makes no sense at all. The DRM thing may have been planned and backed off of as a consequence of a larger plan - I don't know.

The 40% figure doesn't tell the whole story though. It doesn't take into account custom chips and architecture. I would also argue that that value is merely a number based off of what is currently known. Unfortunately, there is plenty we don't know and won't know until every specification is identified in both consoles - not just the APU and GPU numbers.

[HammadTheBeast]

Just in regards to this article, people have 0 clue about what they're talking about, both pro and against MS.

Basically this is confirming the leaked specs/rumors, not much new, except for details.

PS4 is a bit more powerful, difference on multi-plats will be marginal, however, first parties will be more noticeable.

Remember, I condensed this for the low techy-techy peeps here.

Any questions, just ask.

[PFFT]

RYSE: SON OF ROME!

"The action in the shots included custom keyed Archer volleys, Catapult explosions with Units getting blown up. Battle formations, custom Prop keyed animation, Camera Animation including Depth of Field to guide the viewers eye. Particle Effect creation, modification, & improvement for such things like birds flocking, flaming arrows, & explosions; scene lighting changes, additions, & lighting caused by effects. I also rendered all of the scenes at 2k res @ 60fps."

The shots Eric Ruskoski spoke of will be used for Marketing purposes on September 2013.

[pyramidshead]

@elite24gamer

Take that site with a massive ocean load of salt down your dehydrated throat man. This is a list of what that site and his cronies have predicted previously, even as recently at Hot Chips symposium and got wrong:
Things that they predicted:

3 different socs/apus
3 different gpus
ray tracing chip
hybrid memory cube
ddr4 ram
10tflop console
Paid AMD billions and billions to get superior secret architecture
"Insider: Sorry but ms did not give AMD billions.. You are miss informed"
Oh yeah and my favourite:
the kaveri CPU chip everyone was banging on about ;)

[M-M]

Well, no one said that the Xbox One was weak. I would explain, but I don't want to have to repeat myself.

[n4rc]

Where have you been?

Clearly not reading the posts here at n4g... Lol.. I've heard that comment made a hundred times by the Sony faithful.

Now the backtracking is in full swing...and its hilarious to watch quite frankly

[DonFreezer]

What?And all the bullcrup from the ps techies about rops , compute units and teraflops?

[malokevi]

As gamers, we've all got a whole ton of great things ahead of us. I'm happy to say that it feels like I'm a 7 year old on Christmas.

Having trouble focusing on my life.

😁

[Dragonborn312]

Haha agreed :)

[HammadTheBeast]

2 whole months ahead unfortunately :(

Oh well, GTA V to hold me off until November.

[Sonysexual]

The Xbox ONE has been surprising developers, but not for the right reasons.

Not only are the specs abysmal, the architecture is more complex and inefficient compared to SONY's elegant solution. The size of the Xbox ONE's APU is due to the near 2 billion transistor eSRAM.
Furthermore, the current SDK environment is a disaster, with the latest update dropping performance by ~20%.

[Sonysexual]

LOL... Look at all the disagrees from the Xbox camp.
There's a reason all 3rd parties, even ones with exclusive deals with Microsoft (Battlefield 4), are showing the PS4 version and not the Xbox ONE version.
It's because the PS4 version is superior.

[Belking]

You are one delusional fellow...lol

[akaFullMetal]

Belking you're one to talk...

[NextGen24Gamer]

Did you even click the link in my comment? It is basically stating that the custom cpu that everyone is just recently learning about, is the tip of the iceburg. Within the next week, MS will reveal info about their custom APU & DGPU... Up to this point MS has been hush for multiple reasons explained in the link.

With the Xbox Ones CPU, APU & DGPU, it would easily push well over 1.8 TFLOPS. More like 4 to 5 TFLOPS.

What we know is this. The xbox One hasn't given any info up till this point about the CPU...and same with the GPU or GPU's. The only thing MS has said since the beginning is that everything in the xbox one is CUSTOM built.

They have purposely not thrown around numbers. And if you read the link, you'll understand why they couldn't.

All I can say is this, anyone who has been bragging about how the ps4 is more powerful is in for a big surprise. I hope that's not the only reason you chose that console. I hope you chose it for the games.

Everyone laughed when MS said early on that their console can do 4k games. Meanwhile Sony said they can't do 4k games but only 4k movies.

So either ...

A. MS was just flat out lying
B. MS knew something about their hardware that everyone didn't know.

You know, like leaving out the fact that it has custom CPU, APU & DGPU.

That's a game changer and if having the most powerful console matters to you!

[thetruthx1]

@Sonysexual It's 5 billion transistors altogether and the performance drop was just a rumor and was never proved

Using the different rams as caches is said to help with the bandwidth limitations and therefor giving great graphics performance

I read the article :)

[Sonysexual]

Yeah. MisterXMedia is a known nutjob and a fake.

We have been going on that the GPU is 1.31 TF with the recent upclock. Microsoft confirmed this number at HotChips.

Based on what Microsoft has released so far, I'd put my money on the VGLeaks' documents rather than some anonymous dude who has a LiveJournal page.

[JokesOnYou]

@Sonysexual, where did you get that info?

"SoC's sheer size: the thing is 363 mm² and is comprised of roughly 5 billion transistors; it's produced at TSMC on a 28-nm HPM process.
To give you a sense of scope, the Tahiti GPU that powers the Radeon HD 7970 is also produced on a 28-nm process at TSMC, and Tahiti packs 4.3 billion transistors into 365 mm²—so the two chips are quite comparable in size."

[drsfinest72]

your wasting your bubbles lol

[bandobacon]

@Elite24gamer Let me get this straight. You are saying that The XBOX ONE APU is stronger than a GTX 690.

Let that sink in.

5 billion transistors for the whole chip, compared to ~7 billion on the GTX (which btw, is just a graphics card, so no cpu, no caches, no ES ram.) I am pretty sure microsoft would not put that chip in a 500$ console when they could wipe the market for all PC devices.

I personally looked over the hotchip pics they put out. With the amount of busses and caches with the small gpu and mobile cpu Its not surprising that when you add ~ 2 billion transistors for ES ram that the die doubles in size.

I want you to open up paint and circle in red on those photos where the second GPU is. To show the world Microsofts master plan.

Your post gave me cancer.

[christocolus]

sonysexual??

[christocolus]

i will ignore your name and just ask you to provide a link to validate your claim.....

[DoesUs]

@Elite...My good god! You sir are a nut job! You can't possibly believe any of that nonsense?! If you knew anything, you wouldn't of typed that. At this point I put you ahead oh Greenpowerz in the "lost it" stakes. The release of the bloody machines can't come quick enough so's to shut the likes of you up. You are in for a shock.....

[B-radical]

I dont think its just xbox fans disagreeing...........your making playstation fans look dumb

[richie007bond]

Lmao at your name, you need to get out more nothing you say can be taken seriously.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

For those that still think the x1 is weak its ram cpu and gpu is very powerful. It can do native 4k games as it's competion cant. To give you an idea it takes 2 Nvidia Titans to do a
http://www.polygon.com/2013...

[DarkHeroZX]

Lmao @Fridged

Did you read your article? Only 4k for movies which Sony said they are doing too.

[C-Thunder]

Bull butter. There is no way, no way Microsoft would set on something like this in the face of all the negative press that's been going their way.

If I'm wrong, great, I'm getting both systems anyway, but too many devs have eluded to the PS4 being more powerful, Sony has repeatedly said "ask the developers" when referencing the power gap. Taking up the montra of "most powerful console ever built", hard to believe they'd be making such bold claims without knowing. They've got plenty of indies with both dev kits, you really think they'll all will hold to an NDA so tightly? Not in this day and age, this would have slipped a LONG time ago.

[ABeastNamedTariq]

What kind of games would run at 2K or 4K? I'm not guessing Gears of War. From my (limited) understanding, even crazy high-end PCs have trouble running games in 4K.

Plus, if that have a dual-GPU (skeptical), why wouldn't they announce that earlier? To boost preorder sales and what not. Seems a little fishy.

How could a $500 console run games in 4K? Honestly. That's a serious question.

EDIT: "4 to 5 TFLOPS"......-_- There's no meme to describe the level of doubt I have about what you're saying now.

Don't just disagree, lol. Educate me, prove to me why my doubt is wrong.

[NextGen24Gamer]

read the link in my first post. It explains why MS couldn't say anything yet. That 3 billion dollar deal they is also explained in my link. MS has been up to something huge and it went right under Sonys nose. LOL

[ABeastNamedTariq]

I still remain uneducated. How will the hardware do it? Like... I remember seeing some Metro: Last Light 4K PC benchmarking with dual Titans (IIRC), and even they couldn't go too high with the frame rate.

The format of that site makes it confusing for me to read. Lots of grammatical errors too. And..how does an "insider" for MS know exactly what Sony is doing (with that deal you refer too). I'm keeping my skeptical glasses on, sir. $500 for 4K? I don't know about that. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my hat.

[tigertom53]

4k was for video not game play

[n4rc]

Angry birds... Lol

I'm not kidding... Running at 4k isn't really that huge of a deal when you are talking simple mobile based games etc

Theres no way in hell your running something like bf4 at 4k... Not on either console ever..

[DoesUs]

MS hasn't said anything because there's nothing to say. Remember when Sony refused to talk about RSX? You should stop posting garbage now, because it will and IS going to bite you on the @rse, I will make sure of it. Watch THIS space!

[Indo]

I agree. 4k gaming is far from now, console wise. The power needed and money isn't visible with M$ starting price of $499, minus the Kinect you got the base price of $399. 4k video yes but not gaming, probaly a simple game but not on the scale of say BF4.
And if M$ had all these feats then why keep it hidden and create all these 180's, bad PR, and unpleasant representation of their gaming console/cable box/DVR/NFL Sunday Ticket. If M$ does reveal something big enough to triumph over the PS4 then go right ahead because healthy competition is always welcomed because we the consumer always win. LOL "4 to 5 TFLOPS" is definitely not happening, well not for Next-Gen of consoles anyways because PC gaming is always 3 steps ahead.

[stuna1]

@Elite24Gamer

The 5billion transistors is a catch phrase, just like the power of the cloud, just like the driveatar! All these terms are used to strike a cord with certain individuals who are apt to fall for marketing ploys! Why do you think each company employ advertising teams? Because they're there to hype up a product to apeal to the largest demographics.

AMD has went on record stating that the PS4's chip is the most powerful that they've developed for consoles, couple that with the fact that Sony played a intergral role in the making of their own chip, just like the Cell! Because after all Sony manufacturers hardware first with more experience in the field, whereas Microsoft is more suited in the software field, and contracts out for the manufacturing of their chips.

Just on what you stated alone spec wise would ramp up the cost of the Xbox 1 considerably.

[LoydX-mas]

@Stuna1

???? So Sony is making an AMD chip? Nice try.

BOTH MS and Sony have custom AMD chips.

Link: http://www.forbes.com/sites...

In addition MS is making their own chips on the one piece of hardware that sets the X1 apart from the PS4....Kinect.

link: http://www.bloomberg.com/ne...

[stuna1]

@Loyd-Xmas

If you read my comment and comprehended it, you would understand intergral role in the manufacturing of the chip! Which in laymen terms means they took a active part in making it! Thank you kindly.

[LoydX-mas]

Stuna1,

Please provide proof that Sony helped anymore than MS did with the design of their chip with AMD.

Here is mine.

http://www.tomshardware.com...

So, It looks like MS did play an active part of designing their chip with AMD........just like Sony.

Don't try and make it sound like Sony working with AMD is anything different than MS.

[ZombiesRUCrazy14]

the very fact that you quote to the misterxmedia blog makes anything you post invalid

[imt558]

Which dual GPU's? Microsoft gave to the public official specs and i don't see any dual GPU's :

https://semiaccurate.com/as...

Think, think, think guys

[MysticStrummer]

"lol fanboys are delusional at this point in time..."

That's good. The first step toward getting help is admitting you have a problem.

We're all proud of you "Elite".

[Flutterby]

Elite all you are doing is getting ppls hopes up when the fact is MS have already released specs now and it's not impressive or better than the ps4. You shouldn't really be linking some clueless guys blog as proof of anything.

Mark elite as trolling and leave it all alone. This is the same guy that said wait till hot chips MS have giant news and wait till e3 MS will blow ppl away with some big news. Nothing has ever been true all he does is spread lies and tries to back them up with some unknown persons blog if that isn't trolling I don't know what is

[NewZealander]

wow i hope what you say is true! ill be eagerly awaiting further information!

awesome read bro!

[HammadTheBeast]

Elite. You are spreading complete bull$hit based off of MS PR statements, and you have no clue what any of this means.

Please, take a course on computing and then come back.

[DoesUs]

LMAO! Elite, your "insider" is full of sh!t. Dual GPU's now?! Dear oh dear... When will you MS fanatics come to your senses! PS4 is more powerful, and is more efficient. End of discussion.

[grassyknoll]

I can't believe people believe it's a dual GPU. The eSRAM takes about 2 billion of those transistors, that's the most complex part of the system. There's being optimistic, then just being plan mental.

[n4rc]

More efficient and end of discussion eh?

You'd like that wouldn't you? Too bad there isn't one tiny iota of evidence pointing to that?

You dont want to believe anything positive about Xbox yet will lap up ANYTHING praising your precious ps4..

You kids really are a trip..

[DoesUs]

The evidence of its efficency is out in the public. For both machines. If you knew what you were reading and how it all works you wouldn't replying to my post. Clearly you don't understand anything, not surprising.

[grassyknoll]

All of that is complete rubbish.

[Animal Mutha 76]

I certainly hope you and your source are correct. I look forward to hearing more and the custom silicon certainly has caught my attention.

I'm a little sceptical as a lot of what is being claimed just sounds too incredible to be true. I treat as rumour for now.

XB1 preordered already and I feel better about that every day.

[Metfanant]

you dont actually believe anything "misterx" pulls out of his ass do you??

[iamnsuperman]

Isn't that the link that someone posted here months ago saying the XB1 would have a ridiculous amounts or RAM....(I recognised the flower). What you quoted from was a delusional blog clearly created to start something up. Trying quoting something a bit more credible next time

[Mkai28]

That sounds like double precision..

[Silver360]

Quote from industry insider on why MS is not talking about their superior gpu

Parasite76: Well, now that is out of the way.
Having lunch with my friend this today was especially gratifying because he was talking more free about whats happening behind the scenes whithout much hesitation. I think MS is starting to loosen up the security on X1 since we are near to hot chips reveal. here is some info I learned today.

the memory system in x1 is much better then ps4 3/4 huma . its actually completely coherent in hardware. You can thank the move engines for this.

several developers are seriously foaming at the mouth to show what they can do on X1 but have to wait until amd gives ms the green light.

more studios are becoming level 2 and 2 more studios are level 3.

the publisher that will openly show the difference between ps4 and x1 will be ea .
bf4 not only runs at 1080p 60fps, it also has a much better particle system and lighting (ray tracng?) I was told the difference is not subtle.

ubi did not show real x1 build at gamescon because of pressure from sony. My friends contact at ubi told him they was all set to go with real beta and sony usa went ape shit .
He said he was told by his contact, " If we would of showed our x1 beta build with cloud dynamics, it would of been no contest"

nda is still 09/21. after that its over as there will be zero restrictions on what can be discussed.

last tidbit, bethesda is working on something special and exclusive for x1 but I can't even say it yet because if I do, the source is busted. Bethesda may be level 3 now.

that's all for now. It's fun to watch sit and watch the studios inadvertently out sony's brainwashing by just showing ps4 version of multiplatform games, just like I said they would.... just wait until October and you start seeing side by sides. VI my friends, VI.

[Kayant]

@Elite24Gamer

Are you Frigid's twin by any chance???

You believe the XB1 has a dual chip loool If the XB1 is so all mighty powerful why has MS not being calling their console that, why did we have to wait for so long for them to confirm basic specs of their system like PS4 (TFs)..... Also why is there such a visual downgrade in Ryse Coliseum mode to the Beautiful Single player if it's all powerful. And you really think MS or Sony would a sell 4-5 Teraflop system for $399/$499 when GPUs alone with that kind of power sell for $500+.

It's really sad to see that people will go so low to made a blog of BS just to defend a company. SMH.

This will all come out to be false like it has for Frigid.

Have fun believing in your dreams.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

It also supports native 4k games its competition doesn't. ..so the i agree the ram cpu and gpu is very powerful
http://www.polygon.com/2013...

[DarkHeroZX]

Lol a MS representative said it can do that. That was no different then when a Sony representative said the PS3 would do 1080p at 120fps lol. However if BF4 is a good representation of what next gen can do on both platforms then neither are doing 4k gaming. BF4 on both are currently only able to do 720p at 60fps. If we do get 4k gaming at all next gen its going to be with small indie games that can already do 1080p at 60fps casually on current gen.

[Clarence]

Or could it be that M$ says custom, because they are trying to deflect the fact that Xbox 1 is not as powerful as the PS4?

I mean technically the PS4 architecture is custom as well. Sony just decided to make their specs public.

M$ on the other hand are keeping theirs hidden and using the word custom to make their console sound more powerful than it actually is.

I'm just going off the fact that for years M$ brags about what their software can do. When the surface was announced they didn't hold their tongue about the specs compared to the ipad. Apple is a direct competitor when it comes to tablets.

Now all of a sudden they want to say that the Xbox 1 has custom architecture? Sony is the direct competitor in the console market. You would think that they would release their specs, instead of saying custom. It's not like Sony can change the architecture of the PS4 that much with 2.5 months to go.

Sounds real fishy to me.

[Kayant]

Yep lets add to the fact the only specs they talked about in their reveal was their 8-core CPU, 5 billion trainstors. Not once did they talk about their GPU.

[edgeofsins]

More transistors doesn't necessarily mean more powerful. Otherwise Ryse wouldn't be at 30fps and chug downward at certain parts like the beach scene in the demo.

The cloud doesn't add tflops to the console performance. Not at all. Biggest reason why? Because the X1 cloud is not made up of GPU's to do the processing so they don't push out much raw performance at all. Not to mention how big the latency is.

If your fake insider was true then Microsoft would have shown results rather then letting their brand grow even more negative attention from not taking action.

[THEDON82z1]

I call BULLSH@T on all this speculation that some how NOW the XBONE is so EXOTICALLY EFFICIENT that it is some how more powerful...The FACTS ARE STILL THE SAME..PS4 has a better ram, more powerful gpu and is simple and way more efficient for programming..Plus it has REAL HSA/GPGPU for future optimizing in games...All this talk is just something that XBOTS have been craving for,for a long time (because M$ been trying to figure out how to spin there weak system specs into something worth talking about).I look at it like this in the end all these HOOPS developers are going to have to go through will only give the XBONE marginal gains and allow it to at-least be graphically similar to some PS4 multiplates. I believe that once PS4 hits the point were developers are fully optimizing games, XBONE is F@CKED because you can only optimize so far..its not like XBONE has a much more powerful cpu/gpu (but like the cell its hard to unlock)..No they have weaker specs period and 2 years from now they will hit a wall because there is only so much EXOTIC OPTIMIZING you can do!!

[popup]

Complete nonsense. Fact.

[akaFullMetal]

Seems like the Xbox one will be a good competitor to the ps4. Competition brings out the best for all gamers.

[Brazz]

only trolls and kids will disagree whit this statement of yours...
right now i'm in the sony side, but i know that if they got things "too easy" they will make another Ps3 monster and hurt bad my wallet.
Microsoft and Sony are not that different in the end...

[Ripsta7th]

Of course MS built their own chip, they both(Ps4)have custom chips so we can't compare them to PCs .

[NextGen24Gamer]

read my link. Sony's cpu & gpu is not customized...it's basically off the shelf with minor tweaks to make them work together. Not even close to the level of customization in the xbox one.

[black0o]

the link is BS .. u r welcome

[Ripsta7th]

Its kind of hard to beleive since ps3 had a.complex cell but you might be right , maybe Sony went the easy way this time but yeah im pretty sure Ms went custom again this year like the 360

[sorane]

Is that you Lantern!

[HammadTheBeast]

You're an idiot for believing that MS can "customize" they're chip to rival a GTX 690.

[SniperControl]

Elite

Haha moron!

A GTX 690 costs £775, do you honestly believe MS put a equivalent into X1 and charge only £425 for it???

Duhhhh

[Ripsta7th]

@Hammad- i never said it was to rival, MS always uses their own custom chips

[Metfanant]

can you point me to the model number of the off the shelf GPU that Sony has put in the PS4??...

[GarrusVakarian]

If you honestly believed Sony's chip isn't customized AT ALL and its straight off the shelf, then you are beyond delusional.

http://www.playstationlifes...

2 seconds to find a link with Mark Cerny saying:
PS4 is “based on custom chips that have a tremendously long lead time,”

and this:
"There are all these customisations, such as what we did to the GPU and other parts of the system to ensure that they would really be these systems that programmers could dig into in year three or four of the console life-cycle"

Now please stop posting crap in the comments and trying to pass them off as fact.

[Clarence]

@Elite
When you buy a car and tweak the engine the car is now customized.
Stop it.

[thetruthx1]

All of that internal memory and the eSRAM on the same die

I can't wait to see the games that max out the Xbox One because the games look incredible already

[JackOfAllBlades]

Complexity isn't necessarily a good thing, the PS3's architecture was too complex and was therefore a pain in the a$$ to develop for

[GarrusVakarian]

But a massive payoff if you decided to work it. Hence TLOU UC,GoW, Beyond 2 Souls, Heavy Rain.

[JackOfAllBlades]

Exactly, but a lot of that is much later, and the way technology is advancing this console generation will likely not last as long as this gen.

[Belking]

I told a lot of people here this information months ago. I said that MS was holding back stuff about their platform. I knew it was gonna be a customized cached beast.This is what Carmack was hinting at when he said there was still more information out there he needed before choosing a winner. xbox-one has proven to be even more powerful than we first thought and their is still stuff we don't yet because MS is keeping it secret. MS has a 3 billion dollar contract with AMD and you know that money had to have been used for the xbox-one. This plus the cpu is a monster as well. Xbox-one will last a very long time. This thing is built for the future.

[ZombiesRUCrazy14]

um, jaguar is anything but a monster, even if modified. It's still a mobile cpu.

[Clarence]

@belking
Their holding back because they have nothing else to say except custom. Which in my eyes means they can't compete with Sony's customized PS4 architecture.

[blanket14]

would the esram make the card any larger or am I just not under standing It would surprise me if dual gpu tho! I promise im not trolling but even if dual gpu wouldn't it still make it 1.3 teraflops or now we know its a dual would it be 2.6 but the did confirm the graphics card is 1.3 so maybe dual for smoother running who knows....

[ZombiesRUCrazy14]

the esram is huge.

there is no dual gpu.

[CrimsonStar]

So the xone is more powerful now? Cool!!!

[ABeastNamedTariq]

Let's not jump the gun just yet, haha.

(I'm still pretty confused by a lot of this.)

[awesomeperson]

No.

It's better than previously expected, but you can't really argue with the actual spec gap between the two systems.

It's just not as bad as many presumed. Many Xbox supporters are simply hyping it up, even if they have no idea what it means. Just don't expect some magical turnaround that somehow the architecture itself compensated for a moderate power gap.

I do believe multiplats on both will end up looking very similar though.

[Gazondaily]

^THIS.

I do think the PS4 will take the edge in terms of multiplats though.

[imt558]

Here is official XO slides :

http://semiaccurate.com/201...

I edit post. Same post before is up there.

[Chevalier]

Says 1.31 teraflops on one of those slides. Didn't someone say 4-5 teraflops? Lol.

[Flutterby]

Yes the ppl spreading lies like elite and joy think MS has some secret lol the specs are now known the Xbox one isn't as powerful as the ps4 we should all now move on and get on with games.

[Ripsta7th]

No you are the only one saying 4-5, what i had seen before was 1.5 and ps4 1.8

[SniperControl]

I was thinking the same, seriously, it just shows how blinkered these people are.

[MasterCornholio]

The 4-5 teraflop comment came from Elite24Gamer who's an extreme fan of the Xbox One.

Motorola RAZR i

[Chevalier]

Seriously for people who are disagreeing with me just look at the link and the 4th slide.

It says Xbox on the left bottom corner in previous slides.

The forth slide says in the pink rectangle 1.31 Teraflops Graphics and GPGPU computation. I really don't understand how people like Elite posting opinion as fact and claiming the possibility of 4K gaming and 4-5 teraflops when clearly the photo of an actual presentation says otherwise. Seriously it's ridiculous, lol!

[Godz Kastro]

I'm going to put this in a non technical logical point of view. Sony is nowhere near MS in terms of capital. I'm sorry but Sony CAN not come anywhere near MS' s bank.

Add to that the fact that MS made a lot of money this generation. Sony lost a lot of money.

Why on Gods green earth would it be hard for anyone to believe that MS isnt in a much better position to invest into a technical beast than Sony?

They have the money to spend! Look at Forza and Ryse... these are games that look amazing which we will look back on and think how bad they look compared to what devs will do after sinking their teeth into the hardware.

Mark my words, Gears and Halo will be technical monsters when they are unveiled next year and even then its still just scratching the surface!!!

[Chevalier]

MS always had more money, hasn't stopped them from supporting 80 million 360 owners who currently have nothing to play and into the fall only have Fable HD to look forward to.

Great that the 5th Halo and Gears games are going to be technical monsters, it'd look pretty bad if the 5th games in these series looked bad on new hardware.

[Godz Kastro]

I agree but that wasn't my point. I used those games as examples. Point being MS has the money to put much more under the hood than people want to believe and its coming to light.

I have nothing against Sony. I wish them success and a strong bounce back. I might be the proud owner of the system one day when the Naughty Dogs and Santa Monicas step into the ring.

But one again using logic. If it came down to just Tflops and if Sony has such a massive advantage, why are X1 games on par or in some cases better looking than PS4 games. People said the wiiu didn't have the muscle and it showed. I'm sorry but I don't see that here...AT ALL.... where are the games that are showing this super advantageous tech power?

I read an article where the NFS team said they were "surprised" at a particular consoles power compared to the other. Why would he be talking about the PS4 when it is thought to have a graphics advantage? Stop overlooking logical evidence to the contrary.

[Chevalier]

Well my point is still they've always had more money and if your using logic as you say and is consistent with what your claiming then where exactly are these games? If they have such vast resources then wouldn't supporting their 360fans benefit them and help to push them towards and eventual xbox one purchase? It shouldn't be that hard for a company with such vast amounts of money to support 2 systems would it?

Based on your logic on how MS has much more money and more under the hood then shouldn't they win outright? More money = Better by your logic.

You comment about how money is spent and look at Ryse and Forza and how 'amazing' they look, but, that's your opinion NOT fact. X1 games being on par or better? Really?! Please enlighten me with how you came to this conclusion. Again you bring up a lot about graphics advantage and overlooking logical evidence then you go on to NOT put any evidence to support your argument?! That's logical! So I should just take your opinion and the one of the 'surprised' person in this article as fact. Thank you for your incredible insight, just blown away!

[Godz Kastro]

We are talking about x1 here not the 360. Yo are arguing a point I'm not even claiming. Bottom line, MS has more money to spend than sony. Hence they are building x1 to be a strong machine comparable to PS4.

I really dont want to comment on your other points because those sprung up in your rebuttal and were not my intent. Lets stay the course.

[Clarence]

@Godz
Well when the next uncharted, last of us, GT and god of war release they will be technical monsters as well. Look at KZ SF and Infamous SS.

Also I could have sworn that Sony said the PS4 is the most powerful console every made.
Why didn't M$ answer back and say no its not?

When has M$ every been hush hush on anything?
I know when they've been hush hush. It's when their lying.

[Godz Kastro]

Ok so again I say, show me a game that proves this significant Tflop advantage! Because if it is as you say surely there is a game that will look .50 Tflops better than Ryse. Which one is it? Can I get some screen shots... please dont say Killzone. It looks GREAT but not .50 "Tflops" better than Ryse. To me its on par... I'm a graphics whore so ill quote Tom Crusie here... "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!"

[DarkHeroZX]

The reason why its hard to believe because they just released official slides today stating that the X1 has a 1.31tf GPU. And the reason they wouldn't sink more into their next console is because they believe in offering more for less.

[AnteCash]

4-5 gflops on x1?, jesus crist get some common sense, that would mean the loss on every x1 sold would be HUGE!!!!

Man the stupidity of people....

[u got owned]

^ I completely agree with this.

[strickers]

XB fans believing the bullshit.
Sony said PS4 most powerful console ever. You know what proves it? There was no MS contradiction.
As for dedicated audio/ compression etc. PS4 has those too with more shaders/ CU(that can be used for CPU tasks)
It doesn't matter that much. Difference will not be night and day.
MS fans should be more worried about MS lack of quality and quantity in in house development.
If PS4 sells really well, securing MS exclusive will become much harder even with MS money

[Scatpants]

This is the best console war ever. It's hilarious to watch you guys bicker over the same stats endlessly. I'm getting both so I don't care which is better.

[windblowsagain]

4-5 tflops.

Hold on.

hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahh a.

MS are the biggest bullshitters there is, and they love patting themselves on the back with 360 us numbers.

If they had a 4-5tflop system, that would have been the first thing to come out. All devs would be saying there is a massive gulf in power. It's all BS.

[badkolo]

if tomorrow the news released shows the x1 is a beast this place will explode so hard
even if it shows it just as powerful, this place will explode. good times good times

[pyramidshead]

Lol anyone who takes the misterx site as gospel and starts thinking in line with it is going to melt down come september/november, not to mention all your future posts lose all their credibility. And people say Sonyfanboys are bad *rolls eyes*.

read some of the comments it's borderline conspiracy and it's laughable.

[JunioRS101]

The thing is I would buy an X1 if it truly was more powerful than PS4.

But, if it was more powerful than PS4, why hasn't Microsoft used that as a selling point? They have never once eluded to it being even on par with PS4 hardware...

On top of that, multi-plat devs (who are working on X1 AND PS4) seem to have a clear preference for PS4.

I wish someone who isn't biased who ACTUALLY understands both consoles and there hardware would come forward and tell us, straight up, which console is most capable of the best graphics/physics/computations etc.

X1 seems to be making progress with techie hardware opinions. However, still no one has said it is more powerful than PS4.

I'm not biased, I just want the most powerful console...

[hyperfire21]

LoL... I dont feel comfortable with you having all that "power"

[Rhinoceros]

In my gaming experience, power has never been the defining factor in how I measure the quality of a console. I recently purchased a Nintendo 3DS XL for Fire Emblem Awakening and Animal Crossing New Leaf and, I gotta say, I have logged more hours this summer playing those games than any other. I am having a BLAST messing around on that thing.

There has been a lot of SPECULATION as to the power difference between Xbox One and PS4. While having a basic knowledge of the way computers work benefits he/she who is attempting to breakdown a console and measure its parts, the person looking for answers from a forum like this or gaf is a fool. Trust the armchair engineers as much as you trust an organization, which is to say DO NOT TRUST THEM.

If you want to TRULY make an informed purchase, then be patient and wait until both consoles are available and give them a test drive. Microsoft put gamers into a mob mentality with their showcase at E3, and Sony stoked the flames. To jump into this belligerent excuse for a conversation hunting for some piecemeal technical understanding is folly.

I tend to lean more toward the green side of the spectrum (when it comes to the console wars) on this board for two reasons. 1. I like playing devil's advocate, and 2. I generally don't like to see uninformed consumers (using the tidbits that trickle down from MS and SONY) try to build an argument for might = right, or that the trendiness of a console before it's released is an indicator of its true value. We are all very excited, but we need to keep our pants on until we can actually mess around on these machines to see what they're capable of doing.

[Holeran]

With 5 billion transistors I bet you could build a ton of those little am/fm transistor radios I played with in 1976.

[kingPoS]

Confirmed: Power surge protector required to avoid bricking and maybe PS4 too.
Have the they ever heard of K.I.S.S? Usually when designing a system you want it be simple and easy to understand.

It's like the difference between a turbocharged ride and and a naturally aspirated. One has prerequisites to get it to speed the other doesn't.

I'm not knocking either, just pointing out the differences I see.

Some parallel eh