Gamer Entitlement - How much say should we have?

Recently a number of high profile situations have brought up the issue of entitlement with gamers. In days of yore Nintendo and Sega would bring out new consoles and you’d know very little about it until you saw one for yourself. I can’t imagine anyone petitioned Nintendo about region locking the N64 by having oddly shaped cartridges or Sega for the limited battery life of its handhelds; they were simply facts about the products and either you bought them or you didn’t. This year every little detail of the upcoming console launches (particularly the Xbox One) have been poured over by thousands of fans worldwide and then much of it has been used as ammunition for campaigns and quests to try and get things changed. Oddly enough, it actually worked – but is this a good thing?

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jmc88882828d ago (Edited 2828d ago )

Criticism isn't entitlement.

Can morons actually LEARN what entitlement is?

Do people know that there are things you are legitimately entitled to and that ISN'T a bad thing? This situation is nothing of the sort. Criticism and complaints aren't entitlement.

So it's a bad thing if valid complaints aren't heard or heeded?

Look I know all about the tyranny of the majority and mob rule.

But you notice all the bad that comes with those are when people are out of touch and jump the shark.

There is never a reason valid concerns and complaints should be ditched.

It's like look, Prometheus gave us fire....put it out..put it out.

That's what this article is saying... we shouldn't have influence, even though the influence is appropriate and valid.

People should quit looking at xbox one through the rose colored glasses that you were going to get something worthy from DRM, forced kinect, etc. You weren't.

The error wasn't Microsoft heeding people's concerns, it was that Microsoft was oblivious to them ahead of time...or simply didn't think it mattered enough to care.

The reason they change is simple as well. Because if they didn't, people would choose not to buy them...rather than let things happen out of our control...since with humans basically everything IS IN OUR CONTROL, instead of pretending that life is preset and everything is foretold, people realize that with the ability to have better information, you can act on it and change your fate.

In this case, Microsoft acted like dumb fools...and instead of bombing hard like many failed consoles of the past, they have a chance to stay relevant.

Seriously, why are people taking the implementation of valid ideas that not only serve the customer but ALSO Microsoft as a bad thing?

Why are people dumb enough to think that the Xbox One per the initial reveal was better for Microsoft then the current drm-less, non mandatory Kinect2 plug in a bad thing? Microsoft is in much better position then it was before, the only difference is now everyone knows how bad they screwed up a little before hand because their changes are an admission.

Also when it comes to Microsoft's policies, alot more would have cared once they figured out what it is. Overall, it's easy to see once they would have figured it out it would have been a majority. Even the author's mindset is one that reeks of tyranny of the majority. Because things don't have to be in the majority to be the right call.

Think about it, if 50 percent doesn't care to find out, but would care once it becomes apparent, and 30 percent do care to find out and hate it, what is more important...the 30 percent or the potential of 30+50 percent?

People don't care about alot of things because they aren't aware of it. It's up to the minority who does care, because the morons can't be bothered with it.

Look what's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong, and generally speaking most don't know what's right and wrong because they aren't asking the questions. Even the majority of those asking the questions, don't know the correct questions to ask. Sometimes things are a bit grey, but not this.

So really it comes down to the vocal few who do care, do know, and point it all out.

The world would be a better place if the majority who wasn't looking didn't hold back the minority that was.

Kyosuke_Sanada2828d ago

Very Well Said. The thing is if Microsoft didn't listen and the console flopped because of voting withe their wallets then you would have articles spouting how disappointing gamer's choices are.

This is the only industry where the customers are regarded as the cause of everything bad.

TPSou2828d ago

Other than the music industry, and the film industry, and the restaurant industry. If Microsoft didn't listen and had managed to get their message right for something like Gamescom, we might have something genuinely innovative and different coming to market, instead we have more of the same. The internet echo chamber comes up with ideas like the Xbox One flopping but they said similar things about the Wii, and the DS. The people who read about all of this far in advance and then go post about it on the internet one way or the other are a tiny minority compared to the people who buy the consoles. I think it's just that recently it's much easier for that minority to get their voices heard in big ways. I'm not against people voicing their opinions, I'm against people disproportionately representing viewpoints.

jmc88882828d ago

Again TPSou, you still don't see reality. (not knocking you, just saying it...because it's true)

What message could Microsoft have had. There were NO BENEFITS to what they had. The things they removed didn't remove anything except the family sharing plan...a plan which from leaks was just a glorified demo for something like 60 minutes. Or basically the same thing you can do without the policy, especially since Sony is.

What you haven't laid out is.....

What was genuinely innovative that was lost by the 180's?

NOTHING. You keep saying they might have something genuinely innovative, but you can't say what it is.

Meanwhile the 'innovativeness' that the Xbox One has in it, is still there.

So what innovativeness did they lose?

Echo chamber? Man, all I see out of you, respectfully, is one bad meme after another blinding you from accepting reality.

You lost nothing, you gained freedom and the choice of whether or not you want to be massively spied on.

Xbox One flopping is WHY Microsoft made the changes. Because SALES were low.

Do you really think that the majority of people who don't pay attention, and thus weren't part of the vocal minority, would of had a different opinion when they plugged it into little billy's room without an internet connection to play some childs game and the box won't work?

Or when teenage joey and tommy got their system and said, on monday lets trade games, only to try to go back to the system and it not work?

People would have freaked out and brought their consoles back by the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

The tiny minority in this is 100 percent right.

You lost nothing, and only gained. Yet you are out there trying to claim, without proof or a shred of intelligent guessing WHAT YOU LOST.

What did you lose? Specifically, because Microsoft did a 180 on these?


TPSou2828d ago

I disagree, I think that gamers villainised Microsoft for design decisions before it was clear what the implications of those decisions would be. They started campaigns through memes and downvoting and negative commenting, outraged at the fact that the Xbox One wasn't going to do what they thought. That's beyond criticism, that's the grown-up equivalent of peer pressure from a vocal minority.

Your comments about people being 'dumb enough' or looking at the Xbox One through rose tinted glasses are exactly what I'm talking about, maybe those decisions just weren't things you personally liked, and therefore you didn't need to buy that product. To start insulting people who did like that direction is trying to push your will onto others which I don't think is something gamers should be doing, and I definitely don't think Microsoft should bow down to.

Like with the history of most internet boycotts, rage before release rarely translates into a hit on sales. Remember all of those against one of the Call of Duty games and then there's a screenshot of that group with nearly every single member playing the game they swore to boycott. Internet rage is becoming somehow powerful, and the people behind it don't seem to realise they don't represent everybody, but sadly the industry is starting to listen to them as if they do.

jmc88882828d ago

Not really.

Look the author of the article talked about let their wallet vote.

It did. Hence the 180's.

The article says...if you don't want motion gaming...well kinect is not just motion gaming, but a tool that is going to be used to see who you are, what your trends are, and advertise to them, with that information easily obtainable to be exploit you. People, rightly want an option. That's not 'against vision', it's against unnecessary invasion.

Check-ins are idiotic and trying to nerf used game for what, the mythical family sharing plan which when it was partially revealed was a glorified demo?

It's not peer pressure, it's called reality. Look if you see Usain Bolt lined up next to nine butterbeans, it's easy to know who will win the 100meter dash.

Not allowing people to trade games, having a 24 hour check in or the console is a brick, and the NSA spy device known as Kinect2 are real, and what part of their vision needed it?

What people don't realize is that NONE of Xbox's vision isn't still true after these 180's. None of the vision has been affected by the 180's, but the needless idiotic stuff has, then what has been lost and what has been gained?

You are saying it's sadly that they listened to others so now you have lost nothing and gained privacy and freedom.

That's what's really sad.

Actually we do represent everybody on this issue. Because are you saying that check-ins enhance the xbox One? not being able to trade or share games enhances the xbox one? not requiring a kinect2 that will spy and exploit you somehow harms you?

Look people have all their crazy notions that allowing people freedom from Kinect2 and its spying is going to harm people who stupidly are naive to the effects of spying because they want to game using Kinect. It's fine you want motion controls, but you can have motion controls without the spying. This isn't even that. This is, you can still be spied on, but others can choose to opt out.

Your positions are nothing but inaccuracies and pure sophistry. The simple fact is, you lost nothing, and gained privacy and control. Microsoft started the process from doomed console, to one that will probably survive.

Internet rage has nothing to do with this.

No console needs to spy on its users and its users don't gain a lick from spying.

No console needs to have people check-in and its users don't gain a lick from having a console check-in.

No console needs to limit people trading games and its users don't gain a lick from preventing them or limiting them in some way.

You lost nothing, my point is very valid. Rose colored glassed are away from reality. My points are right with reality. People ARE dumb for not realizing reality. It's not that hard.

Well the funny thing is that no one chooses check-ins, no trading, and spying. That's what people were pissed about. People who want this are stupid. It's like saying you want a flat tire and a blown engine.

These things weren't valid decisions. You keep thinking that any decision is on par with each other. Like legitimate design decisions like how fast the processor is in on par with...should we require a check-in?

The two aren't the same.

I still can't believe people look at the success of getting an idiotic ball and chain off the Xbox One and people are lamenting that people had the power to remove the ball and chain. With that ball and chain Xbox One was DOA.

TPSou2828d ago

Firstly of course you don't represent everybody, otherwise I wouldn't be disagreeing.

But lets go through that last list.

1. There's no evidence to suggest Kinect would be used for spying, if it was uploading video you'd know about it from your bandwidth usage, it can't store video.

2. The check in was to allow people to play games without having the discs. With no check in people could play games indefinitely after selling them.

3. The used game industry can be poisonous to developers as they get zero profit from more people playing their games. The only thing Microsoft said about used games was that they would leave it up to publishers, so there would be a chance publishers could claim a royalty for used games sales or block it entirely for a game. Imagine a short single player game, it'll be bought day one by the die hard fans, and the majority of sold copies after that will be used copies with nothing going back to the developers. The alternative is more day-one DLC and pre-order 'bonuses'.

You claimed that people were voting with their wallets, but the consoles are still three months away from going on sale.

rainslacker2828d ago

Internet you put it...translated directly into lack of pre-order sales. It's abundantly apparent that people weren't on board with MS policies. That vocal minority was also made up of 360 fans, in large abundance. They saw themselves losing a game machine, and gaining a tyrannical master over their own gaming life.

MS realized what they wanted wasn't going to work. While you may be perfectly fine with what MS was trying to do, most people were not.

It isn't the loud minority causing MS to change it's tune, it's the lack of motivated buyers doing so. The two are intrinsically linked, but unlike many MS fans, MS is at least smart enough to know when they screwed up, and are willing to make changes regardless of the vocal minority who still want to blame everyone but the offenders themselves.

As jmc said, you lost nothing, because you had nothing to begin with. Vague promises, and idealistic expectations set upon a product that very little is known about. The rest of the community has now gained a plethora of hyperbolic what-if's and "innovative ideas" based on fact-less assumptions that more often than not don't even match up to historical evidence or common sense.

It's getting really hard to take some of you Xbox fans seriously because you can only see the good in the situation. The day this whole thing became a console war talking point is the day the entire meaning of the issue was lost. If you truly want all those amazing innovative features that MS, or it's fans, are claiming to be there, then insist on them. Go to MS and tell them to bring them back without the DRM. Tell them you won't buy the system until they bring those promised features back with the DRM. Surely they can be done without restrictive DRM. Your willingness to buy a product that doesn't have the features you want is just blind acceptance, instead of fighting back like all the people who were against the initial policies in the first place. Take note, the criticisms work, but you have to stand by those criticisms and vote with your wallet. If there are enough of you, you'll get what you want. Why is that so hard to understand?

It appears that too many xbox fans on here aren't creative enough to help MS find a way. Too many are willing to blame others, instead of standing by what you want and not buying the system because it isn't for you. It would appear that too many Xbox fans are too hell bent on blaming others for MS mistakes.