Kinect is no longer mandatory, so why do I still have to pay for it?

Microsoft has confirmed that the Kinect is no longer required for the Xbox One. So why not release without it and get to a competitive price point?

[Bigpappy]

You don't have to pay for it. Get yourself a wii-u or PS4. I don't think they have Kinect.

If M$ don't keep feature in place, they have zero chance of competing with PS4. If they show the features working as stated, they will turn the tide quickly. It is all about proof of concept now.

Demonstrate the X1 pushing pollies and a high frame rate; Show Kinect2 working in an impressive manner; Demonstrate how the cloud will be great for those huge opened world games; Show how Kinect2 helps controller games while sitting to enhance gameplay; Show some new Kinect only demo's for the casuals. Do these things properly and watch the tide change almost over night.

[zeal0us]

Honestly the damage is already done. Microsoft had their May conference and E3 to demonstrate the things you mention. Instead they were more focus on TV features and trying to dodge and poorly justify the DRM. Sure if they did do those things at next few conferences before launch, it might draw a few gamers but some(mainly the ones who don't care for MS exclusives) already jump ship.
--
Being that Kinect isn't mandatory its only a matter of time before the majority question MS on why is it included then.

[No_Limit]

"damage is already done"

Another one of Sony supporter's catchphrases. LOL

YAWN, I want to hear something new please.

[zeal0us]

@No_Limit

And this is how pointless argue starts. Someone state something that doesn't align with your beliefs you called them a ___ fanboy or ____ supporter. You need to understand just because someone say something that isn't Microsoft friendly it doesn't automatically means they are Sony fanboy/supporter.

Btw I owned a 360,have own several Sony products in the past, PC and Wii.

[M-M]

@No_Limit,

You're one to talk, you made your account solely for trolling.

[spicelicka]

God damn what the F*** is up with this bullshit. All they said is that the xbox can now run without the kinect, they clarified it's still mandatory for all games and apps that use it, just now you don't have to worry about your privacy issues.

It's like the wii sensor bar, you don't need it to run with system but without it the controller doesn't work so it makes the wii functionally useless.

[NewMonday]

@No_Limit

It"s just like when Nintendo fans laugh at WiiU critics, look how it's doing now.

@Bigpappy

"If M$ don't keep feature in place, they have zero chance of competing with PS4"

they can with games, it has always been about the games, gimmicks come and go.

games like Bayonetta 2, W101, X and Zelda will make me get a WiiU

[iamnsuperman]

"The damage is already done"

I don't think the average consumer cares except for getting the next COD or whatever. People here/go on other gaming websites care but a lot of people don't care. Saying that I don't think a lot of people care for the Kinect anyway (being not entirely a new thing as it was shown with the Kinect 1) which puts Microsoft in a delicate position and they need to justify why the extra money because a $100 difference is quite big regardless of income status. This news doesn't help them at all and actually goes against them. They need to make sure that people don't think it isn't needed which they are not doing right now.

[shoddy]

This is a very good question.

I think the answer is MS just want what ever benefit them more than "we listen to gamers"

yes it business. A bullshit business that is.

[JokesOnYou]

"Honestly the damage is already done."

zealous if you really believe that youbdont know much about gaming industry history. Gamers are fickle, look at RROD that was a disaster AFTER LAUNCH yet gamers kept gaming on 360, micro went on to be very succesdful and most gamers are fickle you speak for yourself and of course that may be the attitude the few hundred loyal ps supporters on n4g, other gaming sites eith heavy ps supporters but they all pale in comparison to the 10's of millions of fickle gamers, non loyal gamers and even more of the ones who dont frequent or care to read up on gaming news....no they just play what hits storevshelves, great games will superseed internet negativity.

Like Bigpappy said all you have to do is not buy it....I mean if micro is so bad why are sonyfans still so interested?

[pompombrum]

@No_Limit

You sure are obsessed with Sony aren't you? Not once did Zeal0us even mention them but it doesn't stop you having to bring them into the discussion.

[MikeyDucati1]

Xbox 360 focused on the media entertainment as well. It just expanded with XOne. Your point is? Gamers sound silly mentioning that in a discussion because that has already been avenue traveled by MS since 360. Everybody should know that. And the DRM policy wasn't bad either. People are just slow at accepting change.

[zeal0us]

@JokesOnYou

When I said "damage is already done." I don't mean Microsoft dug themselves in a hole to which they possibly can't recovery. I mean multiple things. Like I said before some people already jump ship from the whole Xbox One fiasco. Obviously this number isn't some huge percentage like 20%-30% but its still damage. Some of these people have families and friends and what do you think they will be telling their families and friends?

Rumors and bad information can spread like wildfire. For instance many people actually believe President is from Kenya and not Hawaii. It probably started with one person or more people and they told their families and friends and those people's families and friends told their friends.

Not only that but also what Agent 86 said below. That kind of damage can be just as bad as what I mention above if not worse.

Some gamers kept gaming on the 360 after RROD fiasco mainly because MS fixed their 360 free of charge and increase the length of their warranty. Do you honestly believe if MS told those gamers they would have to buy another 360 and that they were not going fix their 360's, that gamers would've kept gaming on the 360?

[Manic2014]

To be honest the damage really is just to the core gamers though after the release of the console things can change especially those whom were on the xbox 360 from the start. Yes MS have lost chance of getting gamers from other consoles to jump ship but they probably have to gain back the trust of the core gaming community. In My opinion the damage has not been done, though they have just lost the trust of gamers around the world. It would be a different story if they kept the draconian policies and released the consoles with the limitation. Before those 180's MS pushed me into pre-ordering the PS4 but after all the 180's i Have since pre-ordered both but mainly due to the games i had seen during gamescom. To be honest they mainly focused on TV During the unveil but during E3 i saw purely games; though it is true they should of justified the reasons for the draconian policies.

[Agent-86]

MS kind of backed themselves into a corner with this latest 180 and could be facing a lose-lose situation. If the Kinect is no longer required for the console to work, many gamers would like to be able to buy the console without it and wonder why they have to pay extra for something they don't like or want. I'd bet, if given the choice of a $500 SKU with the Kinect and a $400 SKU without it, at least half of gamers would pick the cheaper version. By not offering it, though, MS now risks pissing them off and many Xbox gamers could switch to the PS4.

However, if they turn around and do another 180 (geeze I'm getting dizzy) and offer a SKU without the Kinect, they risk pissing off the developers who were told that every Xbox One would have it and to incorporate it into their games. I'm sure lots have already poured resources into that and would not be happy to know that the Xbox One community is fragmented into those that have Kinect and those that don't. Selling a SKU without it would probably mean that most developers would just skip the extra expense (much like the current Kinect on the 360).

So, MS risks pissing off gamers who don't want the device and forcing it on them (with the higher price) or pissing off developers who want to make sure everyone has one before committing resources to incorporate it's use. Pretty much the definition of a lose-lose situation. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[MikeyDucati1]

So they backed themselves into a corner for listening to the voices of gamers and changing their policies?

Good lord, you young gamers are so demanding. If the problem is fixed, you cry about not having pie to go along with it.

[kparks]

@mikeyducati im sure every decision m$ has made was solely based on the fact that there listening to gamers! Are u serious they only got rid of the drm crap because they were prolly getting smacked in preorders then they come out and just said they listened so ppl like you would be like wow m$ listens and cares. And now there doing it again but even i think this decision was a mistake, like everyone else is asking now if i dont need it just give me the basic xbox then. And to be honest they keep flip flopping so damn much im not even sure what the policy's are anymore and i follow this crap!

[devwan]

@MikeyDucati1 "So they backed themselves into a corner for listening to the voices of gamers and changing their policies?"

No, they backed themselves into a corner after looking at why their pre-orders were markedly low compared to the competition and offering yet another knee-jerk 180 in order to attempt recovery.

"If the problem is fixed, you cry about not having pie to go along with it."

What problem is fixed here exactly? It looks to the more objective observer that they only produced yet another problem of their own making - the fact is now that this system, that was apparently designed from the ground-up to make use of the integral Kinect 2.0, will now operate perfectly well with it sat in the box, so *everyone* who buys a bone, whether they make use of the kinect 2.0 or not, is paying for it either way... that's not "pie to go along with it" that's a side order of toasted turd with an extra $150 on the bill.

[Deadpoolio]

They wont remove it and really they shouldn't honestly they already look desperate...It feels like they are so concerned about sales that they don't even know what their vision was or really have any faith in it....It makes them look weak

It's gotten to the point now where they are like a crack head looking for a rock...At this rate they'll be offering hand jobs and head for a sale

[Rimeskeem]

Although being a hater on the kinect you sir on right in pretty much every way

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

wiiU? O_o ugh

[MysticStrummer]

"You don't have to pay for it. Get yourself a wii-u or PS4. I don't think they have Kinect."

Why do people ignore that the fact that Kinect wasn't used on the majority of 360s?

I'm sure many people want to play Halo and Forza, but they don't want Kinect and are being forced to buy it. Without it One would be cheaper than PS4, yet could still retain it's media hub capabilities.

MS would be smart to offer a Kinect free version sooner rather than later, but they won't do it right away. I expect One sales to spike heavily when they do.

[Mounce]

Pretty much.

Kinect is in itself, an accessory that they're pushing off to be a Next-generation, 'THIS IS THE FUTURE' kind of gadget. Yet they're not doing ANYTHING to really push out WHY, they're basically trying to TELL you it is, then letting you decide while using sparkly PR talk to try to sway you to 'Take their word for it'. They however, are not giving Proof or reasoning as to why they're right. They're letting Misinformation, vague answers, indirect responses be the reasoning for why they're right, beyond their own confidence.

If they really wanted to win over the consumer and prove why Kinect is a necessity, they have to prove it with evidence, games, videos, features that no one else can do and blow peoples minds. Since they haven't? Most rational-minded people are as they are, Unconvinced and wary of their PR Bullshit.

[-Alpha]

Because that would greatly undermine the point of selling Kinect 2.0 in the first place, since a fractured userbase means less chances of developers caring to utilize Kinect.

A Kinect-less model means less Kinect sales, making Kinect's future a failure.

MS is thinking longterm and wont slash prices at the cost of all the R&D they put towards Kinect 2.0, and it'd be really stupid of them to do that now.

Besides, if people are going to buy an Xbox One, I doubt most will forego the use of Kinect anyway. There are a lot of neat conveniences camera tech has, and you may as well get your money's worth if you're going to down $500 for the console.

If you don't like it, don't buy it-- consumers will send the message, and if sales lag really far behind because of it, I'm sure MS will make adjustments. If anything, they sound more likely to lower the price and continue to bundle Kinect than sell a Kinect-less model.

It's like selling the Wii U without the tablet.

[N2NOther]

I don't think it's like selling Wii U without the tablet. All games use it some way and it's the controller for the console as well. The Kinect isn't being used in any meaningful way just yet and now with this news, I don't see them really ever doing it at the expense of the game. For example, Halo 5 won't use it any integral way whereas the next proper Mario or Zelda game will.

[zeal0us]

Before the WiiU's release Nintendo put heavy focus on the gamepad/Wii U tablet. What it can do and how it makes the system more than just a ordinary console. Its the one thing that makes the console unique(outside of games). Just as motion controls made the Wii unique. The overall situation is similar to what Microsoft is doing with Kinect 2.0 and the Xbox One.

So in a way it would be like Nintendo offering a WiiU without the gamepad.

[devwan]

@ zeal0us "The overall situation is similar to what Microsoft is doing with Kinect 2.0 and the Xbox One. "

Nintendo didn't concentrate on showing how their controller made the Wii U more than just a console, they showed it playing games. When did m$ offer any compelling evidence for kinect 2.0 in this regard?

Menu navigation and changing TV channels isn't what people want to hear about - they want to see these revolutionary kinect 2.0 games that make the bone an essential purchase - where is this evidence? What have they proven so far?

Where. Are. The. Games?

[NewMonday]

a small userbase is worse than having a fractured userbase

[H0RSE]

I don't think so. I would rather a small player base where everyone has access to the same functionality, than a larger,fractured community. By keeping the Kinect bundled, it lets both players and devs know that regardless if they use it or not, every player has a Kinect, so on the developer end, adding Kinect functionality to games is more encouraged, while on the user end, players can feel free to engage in Kinect-required activities with each other, (skype, pictures, in-game actions, etc.) without worrying about whether the other person has a Kinect or not. It can make for a more tightly knit and like-minded community.

Just because the Kinect isn't mandatory, doesn't mean that it still won't be an integral part of the X1 experience.

[devwan]

A kinect-less SKU a year down the line would be an absolute slap in the face for early adopters.

Many of the people who buy consoles day one or in the first few months are some of the most hardcore, dedicated fans and well-informed gamers out there. To force kinect 2.0 on these guys and then offer a kinect-less bone a year later would be a double bitch-slap, one on each cheek, to your biggest supporters...

Not only did you not want kinect 2.0, you were forced to pay for it when it really wasn't necessary and now casual joe public gets to buy just the console.

This could end up backfiring for m$ - people who are wondering whether this SKU might appear one day could be put off becoming early adopters while they wait and see.

[n4rc]

Because we want it?

If we didn't, we wouldn't buy it..

Are all articles on here written by 14yr olds? Like wtf.. They get dumber by the hour

[N2NOther]

Thanks for reading? I assume you did because who would read the title and just comment, right?

Since you read the article, you understand that not everyone who wants the console wants the Kinect, right?

Anyway, thanks for your insightful and completely level-headed feedback.

[tiffac008]

MS will probably release an X1 without Kinect down the line. This 180 seems to be a setup for that and that means a less expensive sku. I would honestly be surprise, if they didn't do this.

[n4rc]

But you can obviously comprehend that people do want it.. Can't you?

They sold out their preorder stock.. People obviously like what they were offered..

But nope.. You don't want it so f*** anyone that does and has already bought the damn thing.. Just so you "might" buy it even though we all know you likely won't.

Don't like it, don't buy it period.

I know I'm not alone in getting pissed at that the product I bought keeps changing in an effort to please a bunch of irrational whiners..

[N2NOther]

@n4rc

I totally get that some people want it. If you read my article, you will see tha in actually looking forward to using the voice and gesture controls for the UI and media capabilities. My point is, a big factors for some people is the price which is being driven up by the inclusion of the Kinect that until Monday, everyone was lead to believe was mandatory. Now that its not, I'm positing the Devil's Advocate stance which is now that the Xbox One will function without the Kinect why not eliminate the final barrier which is price by releasing a sku without the Kinect.

For the record, I am getting the Xbox One. Just not at launch. I only could afford one console at launch and my money went to Sony the moment they announced that they were allowing used games.

[devwan]

@n4rc "I know I'm not alone in getting p****d at that the product I bought keeps changing in an effort to please a bunch of irrational whiners.."

m$ aren't changing policy after policy because people are "irrational whiners", they're doing it because it seems many of them are not as willing as yourself to put down their money on a product they are unhappy with.

"They sold out their preorder stock.. People obviously like what they were offered.. "

More people pre-ordering ps4 and attempting to do so says differently.

[Hicken]

I would not use Kinect if I bought an XB1, as I'm no fan of ANY of the motion control schemes.

Why should the ONLY option be no option at all: Kinect or bust? It's obviously going to raise the price of the system, and it's for something I'll never use.

But what you're saying is that MS shouldn't even consider my purchase because I don't want Kinect. Screw me and all the people like me; the only market that matter to Microsoft is the "we" you're a part of... whoever the hell that is.

[kparks]

@n4rc so what ur saying is f the people that dont want it and would rather save 100$ lol see what i did there..... Im not getting a xbox ill say that but microsoft is stupid for saying that its mandatory and now it saying its not but there still forcing anyone that wants a xbox to pay for one no matter if u want it or not now that its not mandatory.. They really need to stop changing there policy's every week who knows what the hell u guys are gonna get when this thing actually comes out.

[Magicite]

MS loves to gamble.

[BX81]

@N2N, I think he's trying to hint at your title. If you don't want it, then don't buy it. Pretty simple. Also can you answer the question? Are you in fact 14?

[N2NOther]

Ha. I'm not even close to 14. Does my article read like it was written by one? Also, I mention that I owner ROB with my NES. That was 1985. Lets just say, I'm old.

[BX81]

Phew, that was close! Clearly we all thought you were 14 writing articles, and we can't have that /s.

[Fireseed]

Because adoption rates yo! Trust me the analog thumb stick would have NEVER caught on as fast as it did if the N64 made it an optional accessory, heck even back then people were bitching that we were being "forced to buy" it cause it made the controllers significantly more expensive than the previous generation. As Miyamoto once said "If I were to always listen to fans, I'd still be making Donkey Kong." Don't want a Kinect? Then buy something else. Simple enough concept right?

[strigoi814]

You only need to deal with it

[ZombieGamerMan]

Here's why it still comes with it. Because it would mean MS would have to go rebuild the One to not need it so it means pushing the release date back and give PS4 an advantage.

[hazelamy]

it already doesn't need it, that's what they said, it will work without it.

all they need to do is not put it in the box.

[kparks]

I agree with edonus thats prolly exactly what there going to do but the way there going at this who the hell knows anymore. I mean damn there like drm w8t no drm, no used games, ok used games, we have this awesome family share, w8t we not gonna give u that actually but kenect is mandatory and will be in every box, well actually its not mandatory but if u want the box ur still gonna pay for it wether u want it or not now. Lmao this has to be the most off the wall console launch ive ever been around for! And the fact that the controller has over 40 count em 40 improvements but they can put a rechargeable li-ion battery in there or even give u a rechargeable battery pack i find that quite funny as well. Just wait till they sell about 10 mill consoles then there gonna bring the DRM back haha

[hazelamy]

i'm not talking about all the exclusive features, obviously you need kinect for those, but according to ms, you can actually use the x1 without the kinect being plugged in.

you'll just have to use good old fashioned buttons.

i'm not going to discuss whether the thing is any good, i'll leave that to the marketers and people who actually care about kinect, i was just commenting on the technical feasibility of releasing an x1 without kinect.

[cootdog123]

Give them some time they will crawfish on that too lol.

[hazelamy]

just wait till they release a kinectless version.
and they will at some point.

[jackdaddy]

Microsoft. Clowns of the highest calibre.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

It enhances the entire entertainment experience that it competition can't match at all. This is what sets it apart from the other console glad Microsoft is commited to the entire package.

[Deadpoolio]

You do realize that watching Tv through the XBO on your TV...Is The ONLY feature that PS4 doesn't have right? Every single other feature is exactly the same on both consoles....They have matched in every way, so NO there is nothing the competition is not offering....

And NO and HDMI in is not a feature it's the same concept as having a splitter and it's leaving a machine on to have another machine on just to watch TV

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Lmao!,,,you people from the other side don't have a clue about technology omly focus on one thing.

[laoboy_Smoke]

I just wanna say I would be lying if I said that I was ever considering getting an X1 because I'd rather use all my resources for my ps4 ( I just prefer PlayStation ).. BUT with that said i think it's going to absolutely suck that the X1 can no longer compete from its fullest potential now with all the changes.
As a gamer since the original NES i want all the systems to succeed because contrary to many beliefs competition really IS good for this industry...

Sorry for rant just had to get that off my chest, anyway game on ;)

[Admiral-Saudi]

It Simple take ps4

[CC-Tron]

I wish they would and stop trying to change something they have no intention of buying..

[jay2]

Cause it's lies and bargain-basement to cause damage limitation.

[thekhurg]

Why is this crap tagged on the PS4 channel? Tired of people submitting Xbox One garbage and tagging it for PS4 knowing it'll get approved by the mouth breathers that blindly approve every Xbone/PS4 article in the hopes of controversy.

[N2NOther]

I tagged it because I made a point to mention how releasing it without the Kinect and lowering the price point would make it a better competition for PS4, which I am getting at launch. I wouldn't have done that if it wasn't relevant.

[thekhurg]

It's completely irrelevant. You did it for the drama, nothing else. Everyone knows that this site currently foams at the mouth for anything PS4 vs Xbox One. You took an article that was purely Xbone focused and tagged it on the PS4 channel as well, for additional fanboy exposure. I don't go to the Xbox One channel, because I don't care at all about that console. I would prefer not to see the PS4 channel cluttered with this garbage.

[quaneylfc]

I'm starting to feel sorry for Microsoft now. People who have been remotely interested in the Xbox one must be a pain in the arse.

WE DON'T WANT DRM- removed -NOOO WE WANT DRM BACK!

WE WANT TO TRADE IN GAMES- removed -HOW DARE YOU GO BACK ON YOUR POLICIES

WE DON'T WANT A MANDATORY KINECT- removed - HOW DARE YOU GO BACK ON YOUR POLICIES, YOU HAVE LOST YOUR IDENTITY!!

even Xbox fans are being charged for it, they seem to do more complaining over the newest u-turn ms have done.

After this, if i had anything to do with the creation of this machine, i wouldn't do another thing again in gaming. Gamers are now pricks, they complain, they sulk and they boycott; they get what they want and then they complain and sulk and boycott over the exact opposite reason from before.

thanks to you i have lost my identity in gaming, i don't want to be set in the same category as you whiny little arse-bandits.

[SynestheticRoar]

Because your a sucker. A big lollipop.

[moscardini7]

you guys forget things so easy , everything they did and say in past ,I ask my self who is really fanboys here?

[arbitor365]

because microsoft thinks that the kinect is the best thing to ever happen to the xbox brand. and they dont care what you think or have to say.

[swishersweets20031]

First it needs it no exceptions and now it doesn't. I'll admit I never had any intention of buying the product but how can anyone not agree no matter what system you want or brand MS is only a few months away from release and the system still doesn't have a unified message or goal on what they are trying to sell you. As for Sonys message was clear from the get go.

Now they got a message of hey this is how its going to be today but they should of been more prepared.

To me in my opinion is one of their own biggest faults. They became their own worst enemy to their fan base and consumers.

[Supermax]

If you don't want it don't by the x1 see you all when titanfall comes out.

[NobleRed]

You have to pay for If you are a crapgamer. (Bone owner)

[Picnic]

There's a huge difference between a) being able to turn the Kinect off and b) being able to unplug the Kinect.

With a) games makers would still be guaranteed that every Xbox One games player has Kinect 2.0 access. It could potentially give more of them more confidence to spend the time to invest in making Kinect specific features and controls.

With b) all games makers , except those that Microsoft have such a relationship with that they expect it, can choose to entirely ignore the Kinect 2.0 as if it is just like any other type of peripheral such as the PS Eye Camera. They might not necessarily be right to ignore it if it could make them more money from those who do use Kinect 2.0 but it is not necessarily a risk that they have to take. They can safely ignore the Kinect 2.0.

It doesn't seem good to me that we are in position b) if Kinect 2.0 was supposed to be such a unique selling point that you have to buy it if you want a day one console.

Now I can only expect a Kinect-less Xbox to be sold further down the line. Whereas I'd rather have not had the choice actually. I'd have rather have had to brave Microsoft's new world of control if the Xbox One was to be my choice and be confident and sure in the knowledge that every single Xbox One owner, whether they liked it or not, was in the same boat as me, giving confidence to the games makers as to what to concentrate on.

But if you later start giving people the option to spend an extra £80 on a peripheral, rather than including it as mandatory to be connected with every console, you divide the user base. Just like every other generation that there has ever been. And Kinect 2.0 could suffer now.

[Sadist3]

Probably the same reason why you're paying extra for that camera and wifi and LTE in your smartphone. Not mandatory but it's additional features that come with it. So that answers your question about paying for the connect. Pretty simple, every feature in every device isn't mandatory. But guess what? You pay for it. Wow, see how you learn something new everyday.

[Sadist3]

Should my car cost cheaper because the Bluetooth capabilities aren't mandatory and I don't pay for it? Should my microwave cost less because the popcorn option isn't mandatory and I don't use it? Nope, in today's world, for you people who don't think before writing articles/comments, you pay for the additional features in a product even if you don't use them. And if you don't want to buy the product, you don't go online and state why you shouldn't buy it, you just don't buy it. Only game news should be allowed on this sight, not some fools opinions/beliefs. That's not news.

[gazgriff2k12]

Because microsoft want you too simples

[WeaseL]

Kinect not mandatory could have a negative reaction to sales. I know a few people who have cancelled hoping for a SKU without Kinect next year.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

You have to pay for it because its in the box. Just like the headset as well. You don't have to use either but they are bonus features to the experience with Kinect actually being core to the experience.

[GraveLord]

You don't have to pay for Kinect. Buy a PS4 instead. Its a more powerful console and it has nearly idenctical or better features.

[jmc8888]

The situation is Microsoft has spent alot of money on both versions of Kinect.

It literally costs as much or even more than the core components of the Xbox One. Personally I think that is foolhardy and it is THE reason why the other can be more powerful while also cheaper. Which is a really horrible position to be in, especially when the previous version was horrible and the new version's capabilities and Microsoft's linkage to N.S.A. spying and their idiocy in realizing what all this meant led us to an idiotic and needless mandatory Kinect2.

So they still have a problem and it's that their system is underpowered and overpriced. But at this point it's about the best they can do.

As I have vocally stated a mandatory Kinect2 sensor is absolutely stupid and unnecessary. You WILL be spied on with it. Guaranteed. The only question is whether or not in the end (the day you die) you are only marginally abused from the data or massively abused. Of course the data and abuses aren't instant for everyone. The data and the abuses will take time to pile up, and people's data from Facebook to Kinect2 and so on will be there with them until the day they die.

Kinect2 is simply far more destructive then many other spying technologies. It's links a user to their face, like a fingerprint, and is always pointing at the user, and was to be always forced to be connected. This doesn't change the exploitation of those that have it connected, but it will allow people to opt out of needless exploitation.

The NSA and other clandestine agencies, and thousands of corporations will still have access to the data. It will just be less then it was going to be for some people but more from others. Since it also removes the impetus for people to shine a light on the spying that will happen people won't focus on it as much. Now that people have the ability to choose, many will forget to argue over what choice you should make (plugged in or not). Therefore, by removing the requirement, they will actually receive more data then by having the mandate.

With less people fighting about it, it will fly under the radar more. With more people now open to buying it, a few will connect it and forget to unplug it. Overall again, they will gain MORE data by removing the mandate. Sure some people will unplug it that had already preordered it, and they'll lose that data, but overall it'll be a net gain in their ability to spy and allow gov'ts to spy on people.

If people have any notion of self preservation they will unplug their Kinect2 whenever it isn't in use at the very least.

[jmc8888]

Unfortunately in an imperfect world, MS's choice is almost the best choice it can make. Now the best choice would be to have an SKU without it, the middle ground in all of this is....put it in the box and allow people to choose. Which really should be a 'duh' moment. Captain Obvious finally visited Microsoft. Let people choose based on the peripheral and not the console as a whole. Because as people showed through pre-orders, they'll choose to abandon the whole console rather then submit to exploitation.

The gov't and thousands of corporations still desire your data and will get whatever they can however they can. But we do have a choice. It won't stop the spying, but those that want to protect themselves from being exploited, can now do so.

At some point years from now Xbox One will be reduced in price to the point where either Kinect2 inclusion won't matter or they'll offer a cheaper SKU without it. Between now and the end of this new console generation both might happen.

But for the time being one of their goals has been to have game developers feel a need to code a usage of Kinect2 into their games. The only way you can appeal to them (since you really can't ever force them...unless you really piss off devs) is to put one in every box. Of course this wasn't their only motivation, as target advertisement and all your other data was very much their intentions. The gov't always intended to force MS or go around them entirely to get your Kinect2 data. The problem was, Microsoft was mandating that you put yourself in that position if you wanted to use your console at all. Now you have a choice whether you want to be a part of the exploited, but for the time being you'll need to buy the SKU with the Kinect2.

I can understand this. It's not a perfect scenario, but if they need to make the numbers work internally, then as sad as it is, this is the middle ground or an appropriate compromise.

But I don't expect MS to win many fans over as they were dragged kicking and screaming to this point. There are millions of people MS pissed off. But this was a necessary 180 (which it can only really be called now...before it was just a 90 degree turn) removal to start the process of repairing the relationship MS has with its customers.

Now they've given us a choice. It's not ideal since you have to purchase the Xbox One with a Kinect2, at least currently or for the first year or two. But this Kinect problem came when MS went too deep into the pool with motion gaming as a response of being caught flat footed by the Nintendo Wii. They've been pouring in tons of R&D and now they feel the need to try to make it amount to something.

Some will see it as they still would need to purchase it. True...very true. But the big thing wasn't $$$, it was your privacy and the ability to exploit you via the data it provided as mandatory and gave various gov'ts the ability to exploit you as well. Let's not forget paying for it to be in the box is a far less insult, totally less dangerous to you, and far less important then being forced to have it connected simply to use your console.

[jmc8888]

But no matter what MS will have lost sales because of its rushed, reactionary to Sony, idiotic, ivory tower gestation of the Xbox One. They were clearly out of touch and consumers got another good look that emperor Microsoft indeed had no clothes. It will pay for that as Microsoft has been pissing of it's customers in regards to Xbox for about 8 months. That stink won't wash off for quite some time.

Whatever they sell, it's higher then it would have been without removing mandatory Kinect, which is still higher then it would have been without removing always on/check-in and used games limitations, but it is undoubtedly lower then it would have been had they just used common sense from the beginning.

It is impossible for them to recapture the optimal number, but through their overall 180 (I say two, 90 degree turns) they now can reclaim a lot of people back into the fold.

They put themselves in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' position. But this is the right call. If they can put out a SKU without it, great. But at least they are giving us this. Microsoft is still a corporation with a very checkered history and one that you must watch with an eagle eye, but at least now you can choose whether or not you are part of the Truman Show.

If you still feel screwed over and pissed off, well no one should knock that, because they did try to screw you over. I also feel that the next time MS screws up it will be worse then this Xbox One debacle. But as of now, as long as they don't backtrack or change the rules a couple of years from now, which I doubt, then if the specific reasons you weren't going to buy the Xbox One was Kinect2 spying, or mandatory check-ins, or used games, or any of that stuff, you now are free to make another choice.

I've been very critical of MS, not because I wanted to ditch the next Xbox, or I only wanted one console, or anything like that, it was ALWAYS based off real issues. Spying and control. I really wanted all three consoles and my PC for this generation. Have my PC, have a Wii U, preordered a PS4, but now for the FIRST time since the rumors were validated with the reveal, the Xbox One is a possibility.

I still think they are hard pressed to put it out by the end of the year without having RRoD or similar type problems, and all the other technical problems rehashed in many threads still are there. But as a person who enjoys gaming and doesn't want to be locked out of playing good games, at least now the Xbox One becomes a realistic choice for those gamers who wanted all the consoles, but cared about spying and control.

[cunnilumpkin]

there will be a $380 Kinect less bundle before launch

count on it