Secrets of the PS4: Heavily modified Radeon, supercharged APU design

For months, there have been rumors that the PS4 wouldn’t just be more powerful than Microsoft’s upcoming Xbox — it would be capable of certain compute workloads that Redmond’s next-generation console wouldn’t be able to touch. In an interview last week, Sony lead hardware architect Mark Cerny shed some major light on what these capabilities look like. We’ve taken his comments and combined them with what we’ve learned from other sources to build a model of how the PS4 is likely organized, and what it can do.- Extremetech

[Galacticos]

It's The Mark Cerny Show
http://i.minus.com/iTxQ7Y4E...

[Majin-vegeta]

Lol bubble for that.

[xHeavYx]

Those GIFs made my Monday

[abzdine]

Yeah man one bubble for that amazing gif!

I like this one too:

http://www.gameinformer.com...

[Nikhil]

What did I just watch lol

[JoySticksFTW]

I'll admit it

abzdine's GIF creeped me the heck out! D:

Funny, but creepy

Poor Reggie. Kaz is crazy!

[starchild]

Sony designed a fantastic console. I can't wait to get mine.

[Arai]

Cernification all all the way...
http://i.minus.com/ibgH4dgQ...

On-topic: most of this was leaked by Vgleaks some months ago (they got official dev-kit documents).

[aCasualGamer]

Muhahah! Too funny!

Thanks for making my day that much better!

[abzdine]

hahaha amazing man! I love it and bubble for you

[Parasyte]

Awesome! Now I want to watch The Mask!

[WeAreLegion]

That GIF explains a lot, actually...

[GiggMan]

Bravo!

[adorie]

Did this come from GAF? I wonder if the Xbox fans there are working on their own counterpart to the Kazification/Cernification.

There's someone from SCE who was working on a few of the epic GIF's during the Feb PS4 Hype.

*hops on GAF*

[latincooker214]

Wow that made me lol :-)

[Walker]

PS4 is gonna be best console game for next-generation . long live sony :x !

[BanBrother]

I'd have to agree at this point in time. I will still be tuning into the nextbox reveal though to see if anything has changed.

Tbh, gaming is boring me. So many average sequels to games instead of innovation. Gears Judgment made me blow another gasket, and I can't be effed replacing it. Judgment is the epitome of filthy cheap development tactics, with super sub-par quality campaign and I can't be stuffed anymore.

Aliens CM, TWD survival Instinct to name a couple more. This year the games industry is giving me a big f*** you and I am losing interest altogether. Hopefully the PS4 and Nextbox can re-ignite my desire to play games again. Right now, it is a whore of an industry.

I'm looking back through my PS2 and N64 games. Don't know when or if I'll be back. Wish me luck.

[JoGam]

Dude it sounds to me you are just buying wack games. This generation brought some great games. I think you just need to try other games.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

If your argument is based around games like Aliens and Survival Instinct, then you definitely need to use a little more prejudice with your buying.

[thechosenone]

Hell yeah it is!

[joab777]

I am just a little worried that it devolves into something similar to this gen. Sony has more powerful machine and xbox puts a lot into its online and social capabilities (yes, I know ps4 is too but I think xbox will be dressed up a bit nicer with a ton of enetertainment features and gimmicks). Thus, exclusives for Sony will rock...simply put. But I am afraid that ports or multi platform titles will end up being quite similar. I hope not, but MS can't afford that ever multi title looks and plays better on ps4. I guess we will see.

[Ju]

Well, we don't know anything about the NextBox. Going by the leaks, they suggest there is more performance in the PS4.

But I am more curious if the compute capabilities and they could make a difference. The problem with compute - as Cernie said - is, it needs to fit it into the render pipeline. Currently this is a more or less co-operative process, simply because there is no HW support to support "compute threads". Now, with the additional "compute commands" multiple sources can issue commands and the HW can basically "schedule" those almost like threads, hence make this more like "pre-emptive" compute.

Why this is important is, that for example, middle ware like PhysX or Havok or Bullet or w/e which would want to use compute doesn't know about the rendering pipeline (unless they integrate with the rendering API - either through Direct Compute - OpenCL/GL switching has quite some overhead) - and unless they do, they can't "schedule" its commands efficiently. And that's just physics. We'll see what else devs throw at compute.

Looks Sony is trying to make sure, "this scheduling" doesn't create bottlenecks.

With that said, this can as well have an impact on multi platform titles. 3rd party middle-ware will most likely available for both. And compute support will be more or less transparent. From a dev perspective this would be transparent, but the result could be quite different. (Run a game with PhysX with and w/o GPU support...you get the idea).

But then, like I said above, we know nothing about the NextBox's compute capabilities.

[legend911]

I'm just glad that AMD got the contracts, now they can show what they can do!

[WalterWJR]

It looks like the APU technology is really kicking off. I have one of the latest from AMD but it looks like these next gen umits will crush my 5600k.

[blackbirdi]

OMG i didn't know that :o c'mon dude bring something new i m sick from old repetitive news

[joeorc]

Will this be enough to put the PS4 ahead of the Xbox in the next generation? That’s unclear.

The PS3 tried a similar strategy and failed miserably.

Failed?

Really you only Failed if your platform was not pushed!

Sorry to say , but really has Microsoft's 1st party developer's for the xbox360, Have the 1st party Microsoft's developer's for the xbox360, Hardware been pushed like Sony's 1st party Developer's push the PS3's Hardware?

For the most part, do you see Microsoft's developer's pushing the xbox360 hardware at all, for a "easy to develop for platform"

I see once again i got a disagree, but the real blunt truth of the matter. is the xbox360 was seen as a more developer friendly platform by many 3rd party developer's but yet even Microsoft's 1st party have not pushed the hardware of the xbox360! Look no one is saying the xbox360 games are not fun, this claim about the PS3 failing Hardware was above the xbox360 and failed to show so, was just not true in my opinion the PS3 has shown its capability to be above the xbox360 in the Hardware front because Sony's 1st party have shown and Pushed this hardware. while Microsoft 1st party for being claimed to be "more powerful in real world development" has not shown that to be true at all. for such a much easy to develop for platform, and as robust as the hardware why has there been no software on the xbox360's to show that real world hardware advantage than many claimed.

just like in Mad Dog Time:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Show Me!

[Utalkin2me]

That made my head hurt just trying to read that, think its time for me to go lay down....ZZzzzzzZZ

[JAMurida]

lol, and I thought the article was enough to make my head blow up of confusion.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Sorry, I didn't care to read what you said after your complete abuse of punctuation.

[nukeitall]

@joeorc:

The real reason MS doesn't bother is because unlike Sony, MS doesn't have to justify the price tag.

Imagine consumers paying more for PS3 and it's hardware being hyped to oblivion, and coming home to find out your games don't look better than the competition?

That to some degree is what happened to the PS3 with third party. Even worse, very often the PS3 would perform worse than the Xbox 360. So Sony has no choice, but to invest massive resources to make first party games look better. On top of this, what Sony learned is then passed on to third party devs to get parity with the Xbox 360.

Bottom line is, MS didn't have to, because the platform wasn't marketed as hardware as the centerpiece like Sony. MS didn't try to sell you just hardware like Sony, they sold you a platform and community.

[miyamoto]

to its advantage I see the PS3 like the SNES of this generation. it was a year late, more powerful and graphically superior than its rival, more AAA exclusives, longevity, etc.

[LakerGamerEnthusiast]

"Sorry to say , but really has Microsoft's 1st party developer's for the xbox360, Have the 1st party Microsoft's developer's for the xbox360, Hardware been pushed like Sony's 1st party Developer's push the PS3's Hardware?"

Sorry to say but you lost me here bud. This was simply to complicated and horrible to try and comprehend reading.

[Conzul]

Come on Sony....doing so much right.
Pitch another no-hitter just like with PS2.

[BLow]

It doesn't matter how modified the chip is because the super cool PC expert programmers on this site will say otherwise. This is not a chip that you can go buy at Best Buy but people will continue to tell us otherwise. This is a closed system and developers will do some amazing things on these systems. You have to be a complete moron if you believe that these systems will be more powerful than a High PC but that doesn't mean that these machines are weak by any means like some people like to spread on this site.

These machines are going to move the industry forward and that means that PC games are going to get better as well. But we don't hear that side of the argument, we get how superior my said PC is better than what's coming out this fall. I always hear how its all about the gameplay and not the graphics but it always come back to the latter. Oh and I can play at 60fps instead of 30. And when consoles get to that "sweet spot" 60fps then that number will magically go up to another number.

It's a never ending cycle and is getting very old. Can we just enjoy games on whatever platform you choose. Nobody is going to take away your console or PC that you choose to game on so what's the problem. It's just about the games right? Haha...yeah right!!!

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

They think the chips used are one to one with the chips they can just go out and buy or get online and use that as the bases for calling it mid range or in some cases weak. Funny thing is developers themselves have said it's high end, but you still have self proclaimed know it alls saying otherwise.

I don't really get why PC gamers feel threatened though. In a couple of years a large portion of PC gamers will be able to afford to truly upgrade their PC's so that they out perform next gen consoles anyway. There really is no reason for them to be alarmed at all.

[The Great Melon]

If anything PC gamers should be happy, because games that are programmed well for the console will likely be programmed well for the PC. Similar architecture across the PC, PS4, and Xbox Fusion regardless of their relative strengths will hopefully be sign for a properous next generation.

[taquito]

a high end gaming pc from 2011 is already FAR more powerful than ps4 dude, don't know what you're on about

pc gamers just think its funny console gamers think ps4 will be anywhere close to pc

a $500 toy with streaming, bluray, motion controls etc....half that $500 is spent on useless crap....its not even mid spec by any means

[WickedLester]

Then explain why 1st generation games like Killzone:SF and Thief are going to run at 30fps instead of 60. Not saying you're wrong in terms of these being modified versions of the retail chips, but I do question just HOW "high end" these systems will really be when you can't even get your first gen games at 60fps.

[LeoDDestroyer]

Because that what those developers have chosen as there target.

[TemplarDante]

Great article.
Great Console.
Day1
Return Of The King.
The true successor of the PS2 King.

[Cueil]

ummm.... there hasn't been an ATI Radeon since the 5000 series

[BOLO]

lol...Don't understand the disagrees. You're 100% correct.

[Cueil]

I should know I own a 5830... it's a BA card that is better then 80 percent of the cards out on the market today

[Doctor_Freeman]

Hardware is very important, but its not everything.

I'm not entirely sold on next gen consoles yet, especially when my computer is a powerhouse. But I guess its up to the game developers to up their game as well.

I can foresee some over heating issues with this, unless they put a beast cooling system on it.

[yewles1]

The article seems unconvinced of the customizing involved, including the 64 Compute Queues, which is a shame because it's more than just that. Here's a hint:

http://mobile.twitpic.com/c...

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

so what does this mean?

[yewles1]

Let's just say that devs are going to get more out of it for gaming than similarly specced PC's, especially when it comes to multitasking...

[Ju]

Agreed. I have a little bit of an issue that they use Llano where I'd say this is probably AMDs baseline which goes into Kaveri...almost 3 generations of difference; it simply has features which can't be found on current Trinity nor Kabini. E.g. no APU currently on the market can share addresses.

[Cueil]

you compared a complete system to a single APU

[TemplarDante]

Yewles, wow, what a pic.
Where does this leave the 12CUs and HD7770 found in the next xbox/Xbox Infinite?

[yewles1]

Unless the Durango has its own way of multitasking, the extra graphics pipeline and 8 Compute pipelines with their own 8 queues per pipeline give the PS4's GPU an edge by actually doing graphics and general purpose tasks simultaneously w/o latency hitches.

[Tatsuya]

Lots of butthurt pc boys on the article page. I own a gaming PC too but I am looking forward to get PS4 day one. Grow up people, PCs doesn't have exclusives like consoles do.

On topic. This technical info only proves my doubt that PS4 has something more up it sleeves that wasn't revealed at the announcement. E3 can't come soon enough!

[Cryptcuzz]

Yeah I was just about to say the same thing. Why is it that they are so gung ho on emphasising that the PS4 is weaker then a high end PC?

Anyone who knows about this kind of stuff (CPU, GPU, MEM, bandwidth, MHZ, GHz, ROPs, cores etc, what have you) will know this already, so why go on about it?

Its as if someone who has a masters degree talking smack to people with bachelors degrees, saying they can never achieve or be smarter then someone with a masters degree.

Not knowing its not what you have but what you can potentially do...
The guys with the bachelors degree became millionaires making the next angry birds! While the guy talking smack continues to work at some place wishing he was a millionaire.

PC extremists are wannabe masters degrees, always running their mouths about what they have is so high and mighty.

Sane console gamers are bachelors degrees who understand its not what you can boast ( Beast graphics with 16 GB RAM yeahhh!) But understand what you have and focus on what's really important.

In this case games! Exclusive games that some of our beloved franchises will probably never see the light of day on a PC. Whereas more and more PC only games are finding its way to consoles. Now with next gen systems running on familiar PC architecture, PC only games will slowly but surely be a thing of the past.

Be excited for the games we can all play, not mind games.