Inside the PlayStation 4 With Mark Cerny

Cerny approached Gamasutra in the hope of delivering a "no holds barred PlayStation 4 hardware expose," he said, during the interview that resulted in this story. "That certainly is what we're here to do," said Cerny, before speaking to Gamasutra for well over an hour.

[majiebeast]

"For example, this is his take on its GPU: "It's ATI Radeon. Getting into specific numbers probably doesn't help clarify the situation much, except we took their most current technology, and performed a large number of modifications to it."

They build it! We made it better!

Article is a good read thanks for posting it.

[LightofDarkness]

More like: "They designed the original, we adapted it to fit our solution". Making it work with their design paradigm doesn't necessarily make it "better". But yes, I digress.

[abzdine]

The PlayStation 3 was very powerful, but its unfamiliar CELL processor stymied developers. "There was huge performance there, but in order to unlock that performance, you really needed to study it and learn unique ways of using the hardware," said Cerny.

I actually like the way PS3 was built, it helped me distinguish the good developers from the bad and lazy ones.
The problem with PS3 was only the launch price. If it launched at 400bucks PS4 wouldn't be as it is.
The reason why i'm writing this is that it wouldn't take to long before developers unleash full PS4 power if the architecture is known, we wont see as much evolution as we did with PS3. in the end life cycle will be much shorter.

[NewMonday]

seems all of the internal hardware secrets are unveiled, the next mysteries are on the softwere side.

[Minato-Namikaze]

@abzine

Exactly. The good devs learned to use the system and made amazing games. Lazy devs complained and tried to take shorcuts and their games suffered for it.

"If I’d asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a faster horse" - henry ford

[WUTCHUGUNNADO]

@Abzdine

The console cycle won't be shorted. In fact next gen has the probability of lasting longer than even this gen with the main focus going towards what features they can implement into the console itself.

"The reason why i'm writing this is that it wouldn't take to long before developers unleash full PS4 power if the architecture is known, we wont see as much evolution as we did with PS3"

That wasn't evolution per say... PS3 was always capable of it but it just took longer for the Devs to realize it due to the complications of learning the new tech. The PS4's architecture makes it easier for Devs to hit the ground running right off the back which is no where close to being something to be disappointed about simply because you'll see the console running at it's full potential sooner than the PS3 took. I'm in no way shape or form Pro-PS4 but I do understand that it will bring the entire industry to the level I want to see whether it's PC/720/PS4.

[NeoBasch]

"The PlayStation 4's architecture looks very familiar, at first blush -- and it is. But Cerny maintains that his team's work on it extends it far beyond its basic capabilities."

I think this is sufficient proof that they at least believe its better. Now who knows if that's actually true. It's the kind of thing where you need to just decide for yourself if you agree. Hopefully, developers will be able to tap into it if true.

[SHORYUKEN]

Dude Lightofdarknes.

PS4 is the best you can get.

Please stop being such a fanboy and just accept the benefits the PS4 will give you.

Free online playing with friends etc. you know it.

[sengoku]

simply a beautiful design

[nukeitall]

@abzdine:

"I actually like the way PS3 was built, it helped me distinguish the good developers from the bad and lazy ones."

Keep in mind that game design has little to do with the technical side of things. You can have "lazy" developers, but still create a great game and vice versa.

So I don't think that necessarily says anything. There is also a resource issue.

I think Sony's approach this time around with unified memory and ease of development is the correct path.

That said, remember when "unified memory" was supposed to be for cheap and low end PC systems?

MS changed that around pretty quickly, with the Xbox 360 and now it is more recognized as a genius move. Well played, well played!

[Gazondaily]

I can see why Cerny's appointment as lead man for the PS4 was met with little to no resistance. Simply put, this man knows what he is doing and is undeniably very passionate about it too.

Hats off to him. He has already played a big part in making the PS4 a veritable 'beast' in the console arena.

[Why o why]

Its amazing that the hardest console to develop for yielded most technically advanced games this gen. Not to say Naughty Dog, Santa Monica or PD couldn't do wonders on the 360 mind you but the console that was the easiest to develop on should of yielded the most.....

microsoft should acquire more devs of the ilk sony have in my opinion or at least use the ones they do have to create more advance game engines and stuff

Like septic said, this guy seems to be on the ball and passionate about our industry. Lets see what naughtysantidigital and the likes can pull off on a console that's allegedly easy to dev on.

[GraveLord]

Uhhh...yes it does make it better.

[MysticStrummer]

Actually yes, that does make it better. Better for use in the PS4.

[flyingmunky]

"One thing we could have done is drop it down to 128-bit bus, which would drop the bandwidth to 88 gigabytes per second, and then have eDRAM on chip to bring the performance back up again," said Cerny. While that solution initially looked appealing to the team due to its ease of manufacturability, it was abandoned thanks to the complexity it would add for developers. "We did not want to create some kind of puzzle that the development community would have to solve in order to create their games. And so we stayed true to the philosophy of unified memory."

^^Isn't that what the rumored xbox is going to use? He basically just said MS's method is a cheaper, developer unfriendly, way of doing things. It will be interesting if MS has the box that is more difficult to code for next generation.

[GiggMan]

You're right. All BS aside that was a great article to read.

[ATi_Elite]

" Getting into specific numbers probably doesn't help clarify the situation much,"

WTF! YES Specific Numbers would Clarify the situation. Why is SOny tap dancing around and not releasing specific GPU specs?

Can't wait till E3 and hopefully those specs are released.

Oh by the Way Knack Looks Awesome! Now THAT'S impressive.

[ravinash]

Would the numbers help clarify the situation?
With the architecture so different to a standard PC, how would you compare them.

you would look at the basic numbers and think "Oh look, their lower than my PC so there for it can't be as good".

With all the changes, how you you judge that?

[Cryptcuzz]

@ ravinash

Exactly as you said, took the words directly from my mouth as if you're a wizard :)

To say it in a slightly different way, if the numbers were released, all it would achieve is numbers PC extremists would simply use to compare the two platforms since the components are very similar.

That is not what they want to achieve, since it would totally overlook what they have carefully planned and engineered the components to behave and perform.

The result, a platform with familiar components that have been significantly modified to perform synonymously with one another to achieve performance not possible on a platform like a PC, where parts are just thrown together for brute force, but not efficiency.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

Actually, numbers would at the very least give us a vague idea where the GPUs power stands. We have all the other specs, if we had those numbers we'd have an extremely solid grasp as to what to expect.

[Sy_Wolf]

As a heavily certified IT guy I can tell you it would help a lot. Modifying the GPU won't make it radically faster. Knowing the exact GPU that it came from would give an idea of what type of performance you can expect. It's not comparable at all to the PC because of the way a PC works, but it would give you an idea of what to expect.

[pain777pas]

Cerny is a Wiz kid. Seriously, he is a certified grade skipping complete college before 18 years old genius. Sony is in the driver seat........ again.

[PeaSFor]

....Cerny could also be a supervillain

[Gamer1982]

"One thing we could have done is drop it down to 128-bit bus, which would drop the bandwidth to 88 gigabytes per second, and then have eDRAM on chip to bring the performance back up again," said Cerny. While that solution initially looked appealing to the team due to its ease of manufacturability, it was abandoned thanks to the complexity it would add for developers.

Like MS has done so hes taking a cheap shot while pointing out games are going to be harder to develop for MS new console compared to Sonys.

[Tsar4ever01]

Ya'll think all this ps4 intel is cool then you'll LUV this link. http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

enjoy,

[ps3_pwns]

so why do some people not want to get the ps4 with all this news and info is out? everything the xbox 360 has now is whats gonna be on the ps4 except for halo, gears, forza, and 60 dollar online fee and ads. dont see why you guys arent gonna buy a ps4 because thats also what your friends are gonna get especially if it comes out first. its time for people to be gamers and jump on board the best console so we can get the best games.

[JsonHenry]

"That lead, naturally, to thoughts about what to do next. Musing on the architecture of Sony's next system, Cerny spent his Thanksgiving holiday reading up on the history of the X86 architecture -- realizing that not only had it evolved dramatically over the years, but that by the time the PlayStation 4 shipped, it would be powerful enough for Sony's needs."

Ugh... this is the most self gratifying thing I've read in a long while.

It should have read 'we looked at the x86 architecture because all of the developers are familiar with it, it has a lower R&D cost, and the parts are dirt cheap and we don't have to come up with our own chips and decided we should have been using this all along'.

Seriously. ANYONE who knows even the smallest bit about hardware knows that the x86 platform has been MORE THAN POWERFUL ENOUGH since inception for any console to use.

I am extremely happy that Sony pulled their heads out of their asses. I will be standing in line to buy a PS4 come launch day which I haven't done for any hardware since the launch of the PS2. But please, Sony. Stop with the dumb articles and intellectually dishonest statements like the one I quoted above. It isn't doing you any favors. The hardware will speak for itself.

[jc48573]

you know what's funny and I guess I'm one of the few that feel this way, but Mark Cerny kinda has become the center of attention ever since the announcement of PS4. I mean, he seems like a nice person and I think Sony saw that in him and it's using that to their advantage. Cerny simply looks like the guy you want to make friends with. just look at the photo!

[WeAreLegion]

Actually, Mark Cerny is a genius. He graduated high school at 12 and had his bachelor's at 15.

[Sarobi]

Woah really?, that's pretty damn awesome.

[WeAreLegion]

Yes, really. :) I've been studying him since the PlayStation Meeting. I freaking worship this guy now.

[Marceles]

Cerny has that "Apple employee spokesperson from Apple ad" feel about him. I don't know his background but seems like he's genuine.

[yewles1]

Looks like they're really going for efficiency over pure power for this.

"When we say 1.8 TFLOP/s, we MEAN it this time... with a VENGEANCE!!!" in a nutshell...

[I_am_Batman]

Exactly. Just like gaming PCs are build more for efficiency compared to a High End PC. The difference here is that Sony built a system from the ground that doesn't need to run Windows.

I like that they asked dev teams to come with their own ideas for the PS4. That's the reason why everybody seems happy with the final architecture of the system.

Is the PS4 a high end PC? No. More like a super efficient gaming PC.

[ps3_pwns]

the ps4 is basically astro boy. small little robot who beats the crap out of huge monster atlus type robots. small but packs a huge punch.

[Godchild1020]

I hope they spread those titles out and not just release them in a 3 month window. These games need to be spread out, so the console stays attractive. Please don't don't release a great deal of games too early like you did with the Vita and have months with no retail titles.

I just hope they learn from their mistakes.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Learn from their mistakes? With the Vita? It's not up to Sony if developers simply aren't making games for it. It's foreseeable future is looking very good right now, but it's an entirely different situation with the PS4. It's a home console, and developers are very keen on working with it. If it went months or an extended time with no games, then that would mean developers just weren't producing anything, which just doesn't happen. It's not like it's the Wii U where many third party games pass on it.

[Godchild1020]

I'm not talking development of the games, I'm talking about a lot of games with its launch window or its first month with no releases 2 months after its releases other than digital titles.

Why release 26 games within its first month and have only 2-3 games a month after its release. Home console or not, they have made mistakes with the PS3 as well. It's all about keeping the momentum and not hoping the current titles released will help keep the system selling.

And how about developer support from their own first party after its launch window and not just within it.

The first 3 months mean a lot for them, but the months after means a lot more for the system and the consumers.

[GribbleGrunger]

Yeah, I agree. I think the 'big splash' in the hope that momentum takes care of itself isn't the best approach unless you have a hell of a lot of content to fill that launch window.

[Majin-vegeta]

So pumped for the PS4 can't wait!
http://youtu.be/HRbcfaOD9NU

[Sharius]

i see the new CEO in the future

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

i heard him talking about that he likes to in work lower management because its more exciting working with developing projects

[r21]

Just when i thought i couldnt like him even more. Cerny FTW :D

[GribbleGrunger]

It's always fascinating to read what Cerny has to say. This is far too technical for me but I still found it a compelling and informative read.

[raWfodog]

"Later, when asked about whether Sony considers the fact that many third party developers will also have to create versions of their games for the next Xbox, his response was, "when I say that our goal is not to create puzzles that the developers have to solve, that is how we do well in a multi-platform world."

Bethesda is breathing a sigh of relief...the PS3 seemed to always be a mystery to them.

[Minato-Namikaze]

Every platform is a mystery to Bethesda....the PS3 is just a little more of a puzzle, lol.

[ravinash]

Well if the PS4 is as near to a PC as you can get without becoming a PC, I can't see what else you could do to try and make things easier for Bethesda.

[violents]

Every game Bethesda makes is a little buggy, but yes they are clueless on a PS3.

[asmith2306]

Read this http://books.google.ie/book...

It's a fantastic book. That will clear it up for you :)

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

hey this guy cerny reminds me of.....
http://i.imgur.com/vwkoWUn....

[SCW1982]

I didn't understand most of that interview but it was still fascinating.

[DJ]

Just finished the entire article, including that part about the L2 cache bypass bus. I can see why so many developers are excited for this platform.

[uuaschbaer]

"A *Knack* for development"

... unforgivable...

[andrewer]

faaaaaaanboooooys all over the place. Watch out guys, minesweeper for truth-sayers.

[ravinash]

What are you on?

[defiance187]

He's on about all the fanboy's all up on Cerney's jock.

[NarooN]

There's always gotta be that one guy who has to play Devil's Advocate and hate on shit for no reason.

[WUTCHUGUNNADO]

"if it had 8 gigabytes of memory on it, the CPU or GPU could only share about 1 percent of that memory on any given frame. That's simply a limit imposed by the speed of the PCIe."

Whoa whoa whoa... like how he took his time machine back to 2003.

PCIe 1.0 x1 = 250Mb/s
PCIe 1.0 x16 = 4,000Mb/s (4gb)
PCIe 2.0 x1 = 500Mb/s
PCIe 2.0 x16 = 8,000Mb/s (8gb)
PCIe 3.0 x1 = 1,000Mb/s (1gb)
PCIe 3.0 x16 = 16,000Mb/s (16gb)

Sauce http://www.hardwaresecrets....

A PCIe 2.0 x16 slot can communicate 8GBs worth of data in a second.

[yewles1]

Not what he said. He's expressing the advantages of unified RAM over current RAM discrepancies in PC's.

[WUTCHUGUNNADO]

That's not a "current" discrepancy... It's intentionally misleading. I don't see how you gather more than that considering that's all he mentions on the topic. It's a numbers game... there's no way in hell the PS4 will be processing 176GBs of data at any point in it's life span. Everything from now until release is propaganda meant to inspire interest. Of course they'll skew things in their favor.

[Computersaysno]

Did he mention the disadvantages of unifed memory like having to share memory bandwidth with the CPU and having very poor latency on CPU fetch which is a critical operation for CPU performance?

PS4 looks like it a much better more rounded machine than PS3 was. But everything is always a compromise, and everything is built to a budget.

[Muerte2494]

You're clearly talking out of your ass on this one. If you think that Mark Cerny doesn't know what he's talking about, then you're just being in denial.

To even fathom that something which requires a port is faster than something integrated, is preposterous. It's like saying your phone reads it's SD card faster than it's internal memory.

Who exactly are you trying to convince here? You're trying to tell everyone that Cerny, who has been working with computer longer than you've probably been alive, doesn't know what he's talking about. That why ps4 keeps being referred to as a "high end" PC by developers (who builds their game engines using computers).

There you have it folks. Don't believe the guys who make our games using computers. Believe the one random poster trolling a Playstation 4 article.

[yewles1]

@WUTCHUGUNNADO

If it's still going on, then it's current, don't make it seem like I'm saying it's some new obstacle that popped up yesterday. Also, don't gloss over the whole subject:

"One barrier to this in a traditional PC hardware environment, he said, is communication between the CPU, GPU, and RAM. The PS4 architecture is designed to address that problem.

"A typical PC GPU has two buses," said Cerny. "There’s a bus the GPU uses to access VRAM, and there is a second bus that goes over the PCI Express that the GPU uses to access system memory. But whichever bus is used, the internal caches of the GPU become a significant barrier to CPU/GPU communication -- any time the GPU wants to read information the CPU wrote, or the GPU wants to write information so that the CPU can see it, time-consuming flushes of the GPU internal caches are required.""

@Computersaysno

Did you not read the major modifications in the article including the extra busses that fight off such bottlenecks? This is a VERY efficient console, it just lacks the raw power expected from a next gen jump, so they gotta' make the best of it.