The PlayStation 4 has been so carefully designed that developers won't find a performance bottleneck, Michiel Van Der Leeuw, technical director at Guerrilla Games, has told Edge.
Today just got interesting.
I just want to add still NO developer has said anything negative about the PS4, Sony owned or not. Crazy, considering what some of them had to say about the PS3.
i know.. sooner or later a PC addict might come and start babbling "we already are playing in such graphics". all i wanna say is - i want PS4 because of the exclusives games. since PS4 is more powerful than PS3, i want to play GOW in super graphics. i want to play Killzone in super graphics. i want to play other great PS exclusives in super graphics. if i wanted to play any third party game, i would have upgraded my PC. thank you.
Im just happy about the extra gigs of RAM. Now instead of only 3 Operations maps, we should at least get 10 or 12 at launch, with customizable guns and upgrades to skills, ect, ect,,
No bottlenecks is huge. That would mean that all of the power is accessible. That's a tremendous advantage, if true. With PCs, there is almost always a bottleneck (unless you have an uber-rig). Whether it's RAM speed, CPU, GPU, whatever. If the PS4 is designed so that no individual part limits the others, then the system is wide open for awesome. I can't wait to see what Sony brings us.
The problem now lies in the fact that if a game under preforms then its obviously the devs fault. They might actually be backing themselves into a corner.
Nix. spot on, its been those exclusives that have slowed my pc gaming down. There are no doubtably great games on the pc but im happier with the consoles in most genres. I'm still a huge point and click adventure gamer though. The lucas arts closure was saddening for me even though they'd done nothing for the genre of late. I had to dig up some old games. Sad
no bottlenecks is crazy designing. they would be the first to actually pull something like this off..
actually some have. Crytek is the first one to come to mind. @Nix whats the point of bringing that up. PC gamers like pc exclusives too, why bring that up?
"It was a very conscious effort to make sure that – with the speed of the memory, the amount of compute units, the speed of the hard drive – there would not be any bottlenecks...there was just discussion after discussion trying to find a bottleneck. Take a look at this design; try to find the bottleneck." smart of them, the PS4 should be more than the sum of it's parts.
For now, of course, lets see in a couple of years, at least we all know it's not going to be like the PS3 in the sense of that it'd be able to catch up with anything "new" as in apps and stuff like that...
You mean the lower-mid range GPU that can't even run 1080p 60fps even now? Battlefield 4 isn't running at 1080p 60fps. The GPU is already a bottleneck.
Why even bring up PC? A good PC will still be easily faster than PS4 on multiplatform games despite there being claims of 'no bottlenecks' from a Sony dev whose goal is also to hype the machine. Would it cost more initially? Probably. Would it be faster? Don't believe anyone who says one wouldn't. PS4 exclusive games are what matters most. But it makes me sigh when I hear people say 'I just want Killzone and God of War with more uber graphics' Really? Don't you think there should be more innovative and fresher things to hope for than the exact same games we have been playing for ages now just with better visuals? I hope for more.
I'm more impressed that there are people here that truly believe in no hardware bottlenecks.... it's up there with unicorns crapping rainbows in madison square garden. That ps4 koolaid seems to throw logic out the window
"No bottlenecks" is not equal to "no performance limitations". It is easy to realize that the PS4 won't be held back by drive performance, memory, CPU, and GPU. It is easy to realize that the entire platform is open to be used to its max specifications. This doesn't mean it's invincible...just that the available performance is, indeed, available.
This is what happens when you listen to people though and then make changes based on those things you listened to. Instead of giving us just enough to make us happy they are giving us everything we've wanted in a console. It sells itself really where as Microsoft is going to have to sell the 720 because of all the extra BS that comes attached with it.
Yeah, talk about learning from your mistakes and taking constructive criticism to heart. Kudos Sony.
@nix Sad truth is that the PS4 is still not doing 60 FPS at 1080p and yes there are games that look the same or better on PC and can do [email protected], how come Killzone is running at 30 FPS? i mean i used to play BFBC2 at 30 FPS it was horrible, they are either lying or terrible developers if they can't make the game run at 60 FPS with those specs. I know i will get a bazillion of disagree for saying that but is the truth, ill probably end up buying the PS4 but that doesn't avoid the fact the "Next Gen" Consoles can't do [email protected] yet it just wrong especially for a First person shooter. @KurianOfBorg Where did you get that info? BF4 trailer was running [email protected] with 2 7990 and that was confirm by AMD and DICE, 3k is a lot to take on, so idk where you are getting this info since BF4 was shown with AMD hardware only and a ridiculous resolution. http://m.computerandvideoga... http://www.anandtech.com/sh...
@papashango. That was hilarious.. Is good that Sony is taking a well grounded aproach for the ps4 tho
The fact the ps4 wont be running 60 fps games at launch? Ehh kinda sad don't you think? Fan boys can't live with or without them?
@nix there are plenty of exclusives titles on the PC as well. Just saying.
@Tr10wn Um...Thats the PC version of BF4 running on a 7990. The PS4 version still runs at 720p.
Not to rain on your parade, but developers usually say these things after their product failed. Makes no sense to go out 6 months before release of PS4 and their product, and say "This sucks"........
-And so it' begins... E3 I think will be were we will get to see just how good PS4 will be.. I think a lot of games that were not ready for the press show - will be showing what they are working on at E3 - So we should get a really good look at just what the PS4 will be able to do... I think it's safe to say if your not at E3 with your PS4 game then it's likely your title is not coming out no were near the launch of PS4, -because anything coming out around launch would be far enough along to show something at E3 So E3 this year is probably going to be one hell of a showing... Can't wait. .____........___... .____||......||.......|___|| ||.........___||............ ||
Sony games been ready for over a year its called saving amunition for e3..
I am seriously thinking of going as well. Does anyone know if the press conferences would be opened to the public? I want to be there when they unveil more info on the PS4; how it looks like and its games. Thinking of taking a road trip from the Silicon Valley down to E3, that would be sweet if possible for the public.
yawn, bottleneck is being stuck with old and outdated hardware from the getgo. Thus holding back technology in gaming for half a decade; if not more. Thats the bottleneck with all consoles.
PC gamers being theives held back PC gaming, not consoles. Why would anyone invest highly in something people are just gonna steal?
Consoles will always produce better visuals per transistor, and thanks to consoles, developers can target a static hardware and can optimize their routines to death. So for gaming, instead of sheer power that nobody can use to full extent because of many PC's with gazillion different setups, you have a set piece of hardware that you can extract every ounce. I don't see anything wrong with that. Edit: Here's Unity statistics- Take a look at PC's with 4 cores->%23. Rest is dual core (negligible amount with more than 4 cores). Windows XP is still very popular. No Direct X 10 on XP! How about that for holding back technology? Anybody who blames consoles for holding gaming back is not able to see the picture clearly, that picture tells us how great segmentation the PC hardware setups have.
Gaming would be nothing if it weren't for consoles. Millions more own a console than PC and that itself motivates devs to produce games as they do. If there were no consoles then you wouldn't see half of the great games that you see today. You should be grateful.
@MariaHelFutura "EA is making more from PC than PS3" "Xbox 360 led the pack, bringing EA $292 million in the past three months. That compared favorably to the PS3 which did $267 million for the firm. But the PC platform actually managed to outperform Sony's console with $276 million." Links: http://www.computerandvideo... http://www.examiner.com/art... http://www.pcgamer.com/2012... what say u now? Tell GG and thief devs to get their games over 30fps in 2013 - 2014 please. also I am getting ps4 so I am not a hater just spitting facts. Can't wait to see how ps4 holds against ddr4 ram and gddr6 next year! Should be interesting. I think that is ps5 tech? http://computerstories.net/...
Hesido, unity stats is a stupid slanted way to look at games hardware. Unity is designed for just in browser games etc, casual stuff not really core games. At least look at the hardware surveys of something like Steam, which is a app that PC gamers use a lot, instead of some niche software most PC gamers I know don't even have installed. Steam users on Windows Vista (DX11 capable OS) or higher: 89 percent!! Number of 4 or more core machines: 42 percent. The fact that the 8 core (tiny tablet cores versus huge desktop cores) in PS4 is no faster than a decent desktop dual core seemingly escapes you. And as for MariaHelFutura talking about PC gamers being thieves, I shake my head when you see again the number of genuine users on steam who buy and play their games. Don't shove everyone into the same pigeon hole. Finally "Gaming would be nothing if it weren't for consoles" This is a joke right? You do realise that games were first made on computers and personal computers? It was decades after this before anything resembling a dedicated games console arrived. You do realise that most everything from the USB and Ethernet ports on a modern console, up to the hard drive, the processor technology, the memory, the wireless technologies i.e virtually EVERYTHING inside the machine was developed for PC or PC gamers??? Let alone the internet connected networks (what do you think the PSN or XBL servers are? Consoles? LOL) and protocols, the video streaming codecs the audio codecs and hardware...I could go on and on...lol Do you even realise how PC gamer demand pushes forward graphics processing technology at a rate consoles alone wouldn't possibly sustain? Obviously not. You take away PC from games consoles and you would still be playing ball in a cup instead of waiting for a games console (PS4) that everyone admits is basically just a modest fixed platform PC! Sigh.
Here's a question I hope you answer. PM me if you have to. Would you buy a $1000 PS4 that gets so hot it needs tons of cooling which results in it being extremely loud........ ...or would you buy a $400 PS4 that is low-power and high performance, whisper quiet and games look the same as most $1000 PCs?
sounds like N4G. Only the few, the minority actually know what they are talking about on N4G. The rest are patriotic fanboys blinded with bias. End of the day, PC gaming is always pushing limits for exclusives not ports; Graphically I mean. Where you have consoles that basically hold back the industry graphically, because they make the game for the consoles, then port to smaller markets (IE PC). Consoles are bad for technology advancement because of the gen to gen stagnation in graphics. This is simple logic, really doesnt take much thinking to realize this after four gens of consoles. /get real people. A $650 dollar console when its released is actually a ripoff considering what kind of PC that can build you. Consoles = for the poor PC = for the quality minded gamer
@ Computersaysno, while I agree with most of what you said, the fact is games are driven by consoles. Yes, it all started on PC, but you're not going to see many games that won't run on consoles. Most devs can't afford to ignore them. Its why most people only buy a GTX 660 or HD 7850. Due to console limitations you know these cards will run just about everything coming out right now.
TXS Y U so mad?
I am sorry, but you really sound butthurt! The only reason why pc gaming is being held back when it comes to 3rd party games is because the devs don't fully optimise the pc versions. It's upto to them if they want to push the graphical fidelity for or fully port games properly for PC versions. Most of the time they tend to focus on the consoles, because its more profitable( less pirating) and a bigger install base. PC exclusives are an exception, but then again the last time I was excited for a pc exclusive was a long time ago. Recently with Bioshock Infinite, the developers catered towards both markets, and yes the PC version is sublime compared to the console versions, but none the less, both markets loved the game. So credit the developers for actually thinking about console and PC gamers in mind. So if you have a problem with a shitty PC port blame the devs for THEIR failure to fully optimize the game not the consoles hardware holding back your pc superiority complex!
Sorry Raigun but it doesn't remove the fact that PC gaming would exist pretty much as we know it now without consoles existing but the reverse is just impossible. Console and console gaming owes virtually everything to PC and not vice versa. PC gaming is the one pushing the technology and the boundaries and even game play with indie titles that genuinely advance the art. Consoles are for the mass market. They are designed to be cheaper for all the sheep to go out and buy all their FPS games or whatever is popular at the time and the million clones of the original ideas while all the technological and game play revolutions you see are virtually all pioneered on PC titles. Can you not even see the hilarity of the situation where PC basically created the FPS genre that dominates console games these days. Call of duty and battlefield are PC games originally! Bioshock the developer started this sort of game back on PC with the likes of system shock. The idea of FPS or action games introducing RPG style elements came about in such PC games as system shock and deus ex. Most of the successful original ideas this gen like portal or Trials HD or minecraft came about from.... Yes. You know the answer. It is laughable for anyone to say consoles push the industry and move it on when they have done nothing of the sort relative to what PC has done in terms of hardware or software!
Yes it did. I will now devote my pc to its true cause the search of pron. No more Wow for me. The PS4 will be at the center of my gaming universe. I will take the $15 a month I was feeding my wow subscription and now feed Playstation plus with $10 to spare for purchasing a few must have downloadable's from the past selection of games over Gaikai.
@DA_SHREDDER I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but unless those 'operations maps' are all loaded into RAM at the same time, I don't think that the increased amount of RAM would affect a PS4 Killzone in the way you're imagining (though you would be able to have much bigger maps). Increased customisation and complexity, sure; since the RAM is where the CPU and GPU keep their working data set, one of the main benefits of the massively increased system RAM is that it'll be possible to run games that are way more complicated in terms of the worlds they're simulating and stuff like that. Hopefully devs will come up will all kinds of cool new ideas! It's definitely an exciting time. :)
that's great that should be one of the major improvements for ps4 and next xbox can't wait to see what devs can do with newer systems, now it may be few years before we see real potential
Can't wait for this freaking console !
The Pointer Sisters sum my feelings quite well. "I'm so excited and I just can't hide it, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know I want you, I want you"
@Maria Dude, I'm going to sleep soon, and now that song is totally stuck in my head. I want a refund ;(
^^^ Sony should use it for Ps4 commercials, it would be great Imo.
Can't wait for what they (And Sony's other devs) come up with after they COMPLETELY MASTER the PS4!
Gotta love Sony! :D
"Claims Kilzone developer"... Its not a claim, its a fact! Says all devs, not just 1st party. Thanks to Mark Cernys vision of unified GDDR5 ram @ 176GB/S :)
Amen my son, amen! :)
I think we need some Cerny gifs.
When GG makes statements like that, I get goose bumps lol
Crysis3 will show the truth.
We get it. Crysis is the super model of the games industry. Super hot on the surface, but nothing going on upstairs and she just lays there in bed. (and for those that can't read between the lines, I was saying Crysis is all graphic and no gameplay.)
crysis has great gameplay... its the story that will bore the piss out of you.
so what gameplay does kz have over crysis? I thought Crysis has the most freedom in term of how you want to play the game (stealth, all out action, bunch of mods, etc...)? The environment are also large (almost sandbox) and you can approach it in many way that you want. You can interact with the environment (cars, computer, any object). There are tones of details going into interactive objects and environment and they just aren't for look only (if you do play around with them a lot). What can you do in KZ2/3 in term of gamplay?
Don't ya mean Crysis 4.
You might as well say a tech demo will show you the truth. Crysis 3 is all looks but no substance.
Sony has obviously built A Console To Be reckoned With! Gaming Will Only Benefit from This Approach!
I love phrases like "to be reckoned with" and "torn asunder". Certainly seems apt here. Just saying.
That's because they listened to what developers wanted this time and seen what the issues were with the PS3.
Well, we'll see how this turns out in a several months.
I've learnt to take developer statements lightly before a console is released. Anyone remember being told that the ps3 would give us 1080p 120fps games? Give it a few years, and that 1.6ghz tablet cpu will bottleneck like hell.
If I remember correctly,that wasn't a dev and based of the spec they believe it should be capable of this.
Still his point stands, this is the same thing.
yeah it wasn't a dev, it was Ken Kutaragi who said that based on theoretical power. And beside with did get a few 1080p/60fps games like Sega's Virtua Tennis, some basketball games, Ridge Racer and Super Stardust actually ran at 1080p/120fps, so it was possible. It just depends on the kind of graphics devs want to push. http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... And this gen games will be possible at 1080p/60fps but devs will opt for lower resolution or frame-rate to enhance other aspects of the games and it will always be like this no matter the hardware. Why? Because consoles have fixed hardware so devs don't have anything to spare like with the PC that in many instances it has much more hardware than the necessary to run a game.
PS4's cpu looks to be there only for AI stuff and game logic. Sony said they are optimizing the GPU for GPGPU. Physics, for instance, will be fully handled by it. So my bet is that the cpu will not be a bottleneck at all.
Do you understand what bottleneck is? You won't magically have some piece of hardware change speeds in a few years. Educate yourself.
1080p 120fps or 30 or 60 fps is ALWAYS a developers choice!!!! No matter how powerful a console!!!!! Most developers of most of the games sacrifice fps to gain the best(graphics) .The downside is that graphics are commercially more worth than lets say framerates. (Not counting the racing games:these generally require less texture enhancement during game-play (racing).. if I could remember: almost all racing games ps3/xbox360 have 60 fps (i reckon 120 fps is cool but just for 3D) If you want to be able to tweak yourself, you will always need to buy a pc. The fact of the matter is that this developer is very positive concerning the ps4. This implicates that he is also very very very confident in the work they have done with killzone4 for ps4. When they were making killzone2 for the ps3, they were confident in reaching the achieved goal set by showing a quick-time movie. Everybody was skeptical about reaching the level they've showed. Well....?In the end killzone2 was even BETTER than the quick-time movie. (These guys know what engine making is all about) The only competition this team would probably have would be Battlefield4 (crossplatform) in the launch period . Bungie (HALO) isn't considered to compete because for years they have let down the HALO players at the graphics side of things ( don't get me wrong: at all other levels (gameplay ,AI ,music,re-playability etc ) they score AAA+ and even AAA++. but after the first HALO (which was largely also complemented for its graphics)they went downhill on the graphics compartment IMO. I repeat: HALO beats KILLZONE handsdown.. BUT not even HALO3 4 or 5 could reach the graphics quality of killzone2 (OK. maybe thats due to the hardware) But you are still right. ANY statement by anyone SHOULD be considered taking lightly in the commercial markets. Not wit-counting politicians. GG is going to have to deliver BIG on the graphics side. MY bet is that they will again have the best graphics (maybe not gameplay) in the launch period . They will have to be beat BF4. You can bet that now this would be their first TARGET. That is their purpose for SONY. It is going to be a great stand-off between BF4 and KILLZONE4. From were I stand BF4 has the upperhand from what they have showed. GG will have to work harder to make a better impression than BF4