Installation for the nation - What's up with PS3 install times?

Console games have been installing large amounts of data on hard drives since Halo was released, but it recently hit the headlines with Capcom forcing PS3 gamers to sit through a 20-minute install process before they can even start playing the game. Is this an early sign that console gaming is evolving into something closer to the PC?

A number of recently-released PS3 titles (DMC4 to name one) have caused a stir with a mandatory installation process that forces you to install up to 5GBs of data. People cried 'Why does PS3 need to install files when 360 doesn't?' The easy answer to that is the fact that 360 installations aren't a viable option for those who bought Microsoft's Core and Arcade bundles - the ones without a hard drive.

[Darkiewonder]

Sony's MLB game had a 2gb install and it took no longer than 5 minutes. how does a 5gb install take 20 minutes? IDK.

[Violater]

dependent on if its a straight install vs uncompressing files then installing.

[raerae28]

I dont think this is a PS3 vs Xbox thing. We must remember the devs make the decision about what they think will fly and wont fly. If you have very good algorithms for streaming data off the disk then you might not need to store the game on the disk. If for some reason you cant stream from the disk then you might opt as DMC to have a hard drive install.

IMHO probably could have been done differently and the devs will make note of this going forward.

[AceLuby]

" For PS3 owners, the main reason you have to install certain titles is down to the disc reading speed of the console's Blu-ray drive. It's simply not that fast at reading the info contained on the disc, probably because it's a first-generation drive and the tech is far younger than that of DVD.

Regardless, DVD drives load quicker, and so in loading the same game from a disc on both a 360 and PS3, you'd find the PS3 to be noticeably slower. "

Anyone who believes this doesn't know anything regarding read speeds of BR vs DVD. BR has a CONSTANT read speed, meaning it reads it at the same speed all the time. DVD speed is VARIABLE meaning that a 16x drive will read at 16x maximum, but rarely hits that speed and averages out to be as fast as a 2x BR disc. BR reads faster at the beginning of a disc while DVD's read faster at the end of the disc.

Seriously, do some fuc#ing research before writing an article spreading misinformation.

[Silellak]

Because we need ANOTHER article discussing this same thing.

Look - it's obvious that the games that require a HD install for the PS3 were probably written by people who had to rush development so they couldn't optimize the game for the PS3 architecture. That explains why some games require installs and others don't. If the games streamed the information properly, load times shouldn't really be a problem - even if the Blu-ray drive is "slower" as people claim.

The only surprising thing to me in that article is that an exclusive game, Hot Shots Golf, requires an install. That's a bit worrisome, as I figured that we'd mostly see installs with multiconsole games where the developers don't necessarily have time to take full advantage of the PS3's unique architecture.

"Is this an early sign that console gaming is evolving into something closer to the PC?"

Yes and no. I'll start worrying more when the PS3 or 360 requires I download new video card drivers.

[Blademask]

As you've mentioned before other games have installs that take short amount of time.

Uncharted has 0 install, and is the best performing/looking title out. No thats not used as an example.. DMC4 and HOTSHOTS golf is... w o w.

So since Capcom is doing it, that means that ALL PS3 developers will follow their lead and have mandatory 20 minute installs right? I mean is that what people actually believe?

DMC4 install is retarded long. Makes the load times go bye bye, same with Lost Planet. Neither games are mega hits, so why are they supposed to be the standard for PS3 development? (mega hit as far as showing off the PS3's capabilities *Uncharted*)

[Drekken]

Only thing I have to say about this is: UNCHARTED. Seamless game, no load times except when you boot the game...

I dont mind installing games if it is going to make less pop up and less load times. 5GB, No prob. Its not like DMC will stay installed on my P3 forever... Rent it, beat it, delete it.

[Tempist]

Uncharted used trickery to give the no load times. Having played it for a while, I've noticed that there's a slower pace, broken up with areas you have to sit in, cut scenes about little things that go on and areas you can't get back to.

During those times I suspect that theres the hidden loading times and probably a cash system being used. Not that this is a bad thing, they put the constraints of the hardware into the game play (ie slowing things down a little) but it is a lesson to learn from.

As a point of note, the Lost Planet load time was about 10 minutes. So what the hell does the DMC4 do that takes twice as long?

[Drekken]

Your right, the loading is there, but they occupied our time when it was happening. This is what devs need to do!

[Blademask]

There are no TRICKS in Uncharted. The title STREAM LOADS. You are missing the point entirely. All games will need to load some how, until next-next gen.

Instead of using a good title as an example of how the PS3 is used to do away with Install/ IN GAME LOADING TIMES, The media decides to go with CAPCOM Development flops. Not saying DMC4 isn't a good game, but technically it has absolutely nothing on Uncharted.

Using minority titles that have 25 minute installs to base an opinion that all PS3 titles REQUIRE 25 minute installs is asinine. Especially when Close to Sony Devs manage to do away with installs in general.

This is another one of those topics which there are 2 sides:

1. Ps3 owners who wished Capcom offered a choice to install, like Epic did with UT3.

2. 360 owners who want PS3 owners\everyone else to believe that 25 minte installs to reduce loading times will be required for all future titles, and thats why you should buy a 360.

[d3l33t]

"... I'll start worrying more when the PS3 or 360 requires I download new video card drivers. "

Well, you do every time you install firmware.

Second, the install times are all based about what packing/unpacking algorithm the programmers use. Most dev's will purchase pre-written code to maximize cost/time. But it seems that capcom DMC dev's decided to go about it themselves. Costing the player 20 minutes of precious time you'de otherwise spend masterbat.....

[Nostradamus]

You are already having to download video card drivers.

Well, close enough, didnt the last updates for the 360 and PS3 add new video functionality? Ok, so they might not have been actual video card drivers, but like I said above, close enough.

[wowsauce]

Video card drivers are not the same. One adds extra functionality to the video card as it is used by the game. This is unrealistic because not everyone can get online, and not every game will have space to include the new drivers on the discs, or will not want to be forced to include them.

The other is the added ability of you to now play new videos. It doesn't change the way you play any game at all.

[Silellak]

Um, new firmware != new video drivers.

I don't have to worry about buying a new 360 or PS3 game and not being able to play it because I don't have the latest video driver for my $200-500 video card or getting errors because the game wasn't properly tested with my specific video card/video driver version.

This is rarer than it used to be, but it's still a problem.

[mighty_douche]

the real question is.... Whats all the FUSS with PS3 installs?

All PS3's have them so developers are using it, i dont see a problem with it, once they become much more familiar with the system these will be a thing of the past.

Play it, finish it, delete it. Simple enough.

[fenderputty]

who cares if it's installed. Your saved game data isn't affected so, play it and delete it. If you want to play it months later, you can re-load it. If you don't want to play it months later ... you should have rented it.

[Nostradamus]

because the PS3 has installs and the 360 doesnt, you even have to install demos on PS3, but not on the 360, they just work right away.

That is just fuel for a flamewar, and is probably the biggest reason it gets brought up alot. Its the fanboys.

[wowsauce]

And you might have to start choosing which games you can play at any time. That's what I'd be worried about. If I want to play chromehounds right now, I can play it right now. If I knew I would have to wait 20 minutes and potentially 40 after reinstalling the old game just to play chromehounds, I probably wouldn't want to play it anytime in the near future.

[mighty_douche]

250gb HDD... cost me £90. I wont even bother going into the 360's HDD price's.

[meepmoopmeep]

wow, he said many games but only put DMC4 down for this 5GB install. i think installs are good ONLY if it has significance to make the game smoother, faster and better. but the DMC4 install was retarded for doing nothing. I don't mind installs as long as there's significance to them

[George Washington]

ahahah the ps3 blows and thats why they need to install games onto the hdd! piece of sh1t blueray drive is crap and this is the evidence.

[Sez]

thats why i'm glad i brought DMC4 for the 360. put the game in a play. no installing. same for GTA4 when it comes out. after awhile people will have to buy a HDD just to install more games.

[Alcaponeyou]

if the ps3 blows, then i don't know what your mom did to me last night.
anyways, all the hours put into GTA4 w/ the hd install will in the end save you more time.
but idiots a.k.a xbots wouldn't know.

[Sez]

you and the rest of the sonyfanboys must be the idiots. installing 5 gig for 22.46min to 30mins just to get 1or2 seconds worth of faster load time is worth it. no my friend you are the idiot. while you are waiting (something that sonyfanboys love to do) i and other will be playing and enjoying the game.

[Alcaponeyou]

don't call me your friend, (xbots making their only friends online lol)
1 or 2 seconds? the DMC demo load time was around 5-8 seconds, w/ the hd install it was around 2 seconds which saves 3-6 seconds
how many hours you put into a game like GTA4? multiply that with the load time.
you'll end up saving more time no loading.
but you xbots rely on instant gratification, (RROD)
suck my balls

[BrianC6234]

How dare you use the name George Washington you freak. You will burn in Hell for that one. Get lost Xbot.

[ruibing]

@george
You really shouldn't desecrate the name of the father of this nation by making him a fanboy. It's almost as unpatriotic as burning a flag.

@vega
Well here's the nice thing about the PS3, every SKU comes with at least the standard that the 360 has, 20GB. Meanwhile more and more developers are crying out for HDD, remember Burnout Paradise multi player?

I'm not saying Capcom should just use HDD installation indiscriminately, since I remember how well Uncharted played without any installation. But if they have the ability to install that will help the experience, reduce wear and tear on the PS3, and reduce load times even by a bit (there are a lot of 360 games that would have benefited if only they included mandatory HDD on every SKU).

[Lord_Ash]

I burst out laughing when I read this " We did ask Sony to contribute to the feature, but it responded with "this issue isn't really related to any of our products". Erm...?"

lol, anyway developers should g and take a class in Naughty Dog's studio, Uncharted shut up all the haters and it only takes a 3 MB (your game play Settings), but guessing most of the games they talked about are multi-platform they had to deal with it someway (in a bad way if you ask me).

[Gorgon]

"I burst out laughing when I read this " We did ask Sony to contribute to the feature, but it responded with "this issue isn't really related to any of our products". Erm...?" "

They are right. If you had a PC game that took 3 hours to install would you contact Microsoft or Dell to ask for an explanation? No, you would contact the game publisher. The PS3 has an HDD in every PS3, so its a developers/publishers choice about how to use it, not Sony.

[TheMART]

Uh no

The easy answer is

THE PS3 BLURAY DRIVE IS SLOW

And needs the installation to just keep up with the 360 loading times.

[malingenie]

Wow, you still around?

[fenderputty]

to read the now occasional negative PS3 article. This isn't the PS3 bashing forum that it once was.

[IntelligentAj]

So how do you explain Uncharted and other great PS3 games which had no install but ran seamlessly better than DMC4? I don't think you can but please prove me wrong....if possible.

[Spinner]

ktr... You can't compare "2x vs 12x" for two completely different formats. The 360s DVD drive can also read dual layered DVDs only with a max speed of 8x.

Although 2x < 12x/8x ... BD's transfer rate is much higher than a DVD9

ON TOP OF THAT, it's a CONSTANT READ RATE...while a DVD's readrate will go all over the place.

* BD+HDD can transfer data ~4x faster than DVD9 can do AT ITS BEST
* BD+HDD can transfer data ~8x faster than DVD9 does on inner tracks
* DVD9's best transfer rate of 12x can only be achieved over ~2% of the disk surface
* The data anywhere outside that ~2% area begins to look much worse for DVD9.

[XBOX 360]

Mart, if DVD had a constant read speed, you'd be right, but it doesn't

The 2x BD + (thankfully standard) hdd pre-cacheing gives developers more than enough to obliterate any load times, let alone installs.

The 2x BD (with a constant read speed) performs just as well with the DVD9 (which IS 8x btw for DVD9s; and 12x for SL DVDs) with its max/min read speeds.

[DJ]

Plain and Simple.

[Tempist]

You're silly. And that's a silly notion! Asking!

Capcom probably hasn't been up to snuff on making PS3 games yet. I think that DMC4 and Lost Planet are really their first two titles. I suspect that SFIV will not have a 5GB pre-install. I'm sure it will, but not on that level. I wouldn't be shocked if the 5GB was basically a 360 Emulator for the PS3.

[Palodios]

Oblivion installed 4.3 gig on my ps3? That's incredible, considering I didn't even notice!

[fredy]

notice?

[malingenie]

BEcause you probably didnt. Its optional. I only figured it out halfway through the game.

I love installing to my drive, dont know what the big flippin deal is.

[blazebolt]

I prefer the install to the hdd, and is it really that inconvenient of a wait? It is just a one time thing. Is there really nothing in your life you can do while it installs and you'll go insane if you can't play a game right after you bought it? </rant> The main reason I prefer the install is that it saves the blu-ray drive. The less the game has to access the disc, the longer the drive will last. I rather wait then face disc read errors down the line. However, I do agree that there are better ways of getting the data to the hdd than an install.

[forcefullpower]

I don't mind installs. It's only 360 fans that are bring this up as they have nothing else to pick on.

When we get Multiplayer games on both consoles. ps3 has an install 360 doesn't. But the PS3 is instantly into the action while you have to wait 1 min for lvl's to load.

We will see who is the one moaning. FFS why do i have to wait so long for it to load. why didn;t M$ put a hard drive in my machine as standard so the lvls load straight away. FFS M$

DREAM:- I wish i had a HDD standard like the PS3

[Nostradamus]

The difference in loading times was less than a couple of seconds for most games.

Someone did the math, you would have had to play the game all the way through like 75 times on the PS3 to get those couple of seconds to add up to the 20 minutes it took to install the game.

Nice try at being fanboyish though.

[DJ]

every minute, and sometimes more than that. Having no loading versus 4~6 seconds on the 360 version every time you move from section to section, or from cinematic to gamplay, definitely adds up after a few hours.

[wowsauce]

you have 3-4 instead of 4-5

[season007]

wow, someone actually did the math and someone actually care about the math when they are playing a game...

get a life dude

[supaflypriest1]

"We will see who is the one moaning. FFS why do i have to wait so long for it to load. why didn;t M$ put a hard drive in my machine as standard so the lvls load straight away. FFS M$

DREAM:- I wish i had a HDD standard like the PS3"

Although it would be better if every xbox had a hdd standard, many xbox games detect if a hdd is attached, and then use it as a cache, if it doesn't detect one, then the load times are just longer, Oblivion is one example of this...

[kewlkat007]

As some say, certain games use "trickery" to mask "loading" times.

What people wanna know is why is it sometimes Mandatory?

and for the Xbox 360 which uses less capacity for storage medium, why is it, not Mandatory?

I have no problems with the Installs for games, as they do help, but what makes the PS3's architecture so different in the Way software is downloaded and played? for instance DEMOS?

Xbox 360 - you download and hit "PLAY"
PS3 - You download, then you still have to install.

Whhhyyyyyyyyyy?

Everything seems "Seamless" on the 360, the PS3 is so much like a PC in terms of software installation and execution.

[blazebolt]

I agree about the whole downloading demo argument and hopefully they can fix it. Why do I have to wait for a download and then have to click to install it? Obviously if I downloaded it I'm going to install it, that file has no use to me otherwise. They should make it one step. It sucks to walk away from a download and come back to play X minutes/hours later only to realize that you have to now click to install it and wait longer.

[fenderputty]

It can't be. The HDD isn't standard to all 360 sold.

As far as the PS3 needing it standard ... I don't know why. I would assume that people can't figure out creative ways to stream the data from the BD disk while still being cost effective. Isn't KZ2 supposed to have seamless transistion of areas with only an initial load of each level? Uncharted did it nicely as well. HS didn't require an install either. Devs can do it, I just think that manadorty installs are the easy solution and thus more cost effective.

[niall77]

even oblivion on ps3 has a 5 GB instaill and it takes nothing close to 20 mins, as far as I remember there wasnt even a install screen it just did it in the background during the games intro movie.

[DarthTigra]

"if the ps3 blows, then i don't know what your mom did to me last night"

Lol

[heyheyhey]

this bother anyone?

why make a big deal out of something no-one cares about apart from people searching around for a reason to bash the PS3?

the rest of the world certainly doesn't care- it's a damn benefit, you know- faster load times

[Sez]

yeah it's a big deal to only get 1to 2 seconds of faster loadtime. lol. us poor 360fanboys have to wait 1to2 seconds of slower loadtime.you shouldn't get any load time.that would be better not 1to2 seconds.

@below.
nah you sound like you are trying to justify the install.you can add up the modes you want.it's 60 seconds in a hour.for 22mins it's 1320 seconds. let say 2 seconds of faster load time. that means the game has to load up 660 times just to catch up. yeah it's worth it.lol

[games4fun]

multiply 1to2 seconds by every load screen then by every time you play any different mode we both know dmc4 is easy the first time around so you have to play on a higher difficulty add in those loads and then add in the load times for alternate modes of gameplay and and you will go above and beyond the ammount of time it took to install it on ps3 and i really dont give a crap about this stuff you just sounded illogical so i had to correct you now respond as hostile as you want.

[Sez]

sorry 60 seconds in 1 min.

[heyheyhey]

@vega75

im sorry- but that made no sense whatsoever

i appreciate the fact that english may not be your first language, but you seem to understand it well so why post a load of nonsense?

and it wasn't just the spelling and grammar either, it was the whole thing- i had no idea wtf you were gibbering about

please elaborate

[BrianC6234]

It doesn't bother me one bit. What bothers me is some people make a big deal out of it. That's pathetic really. It's done to speed up the game so don't complain.

[Sez]

if you can't read. i feel sorry for you.because i'm not going to spell it out for you. take a reading class or go back to school

[ruibing]

@vega
There are a few 360 exclusives that would have benefited from a HDD installation to reduce load times. Lost Odyssey would have scored much better if it didn't take so long to load between levels and battles.

[games4fun]

Johnny: "a dead horse lets hit it"
Johnny's Dad: "now hold on there johnny if your going to do that i've come up with something more constructive" father pours gas on the horse and lets his son light it on fire
Johnny: "Flame ON!"

i personally like the install i do it on all of my games regardless and the only hefty install i have seen is for one game made by Capcom so go cry foul to someone who cares its pretty obvious that this is a good thing for developers and somehow its turned into a negative by a bunch of pubescent teenagers

[eagle21]

And a install is better than a pseudo RECALL...lol

[DarkSniper]

Please preach that statement further to all of the Microslaves across N4G. Install is definately better than a recall.

Microslaves are personally offended by the comments made by Eagle21 and Dark Sniper.

Your only solution is to "Jump Out or Miss Out".

$niper

[Grimlock]

Me Grimlock think you talk funny....
Me Grimlock also thinks that you are retarded...

Who???

ME Grimlock!!

[DarthTigra]

The console war is nothig but a reapeat of the last one.

[DarkSniper]

More like a repeat of SNES vs Sega. The only difference is that the internet was not as prevalent as it is now to read all of the lame comments that Microslaves make.

$niper

[u got owned]

install or not, whats the big deal?

[fenderputty]

that is, unless you're "The Mart at Xbox Kings" and are starting to look seriously desperate for some negative PS3 press that was so common last year at this time.

Seriously ... if after this year, I have HOME, Ingame XMB, A whole bunch more great titles, a format winning HD movie player and a netflix type sevice to download my rentals then, the last thing I'm going to worry about is if my drive reads disks slower. This install thing is about as important as a Sony fanboy giving 360 users crap because WiFi isn't standard.

[SMK056]

the man in CVG how written this news never plied UNCHARTED the game dont have lode time.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

The istall of games is only going to get worse because they can't speed up the Blu-Ray drive. Those 40, 60, or 80gb drives are going to fill up real fast, when you start adding 5-15 games that need installing. That 40gb version will fill just at 8 games, makes the 360's 20gb look big considering 360 drives only have TV shows, Movies, and game content.

Don't forget devs already have to put the game on the Blu disc multiple times just to cut down on disc loading, and now they want a manual install 5gb to the drive. (Sad real freaking sad) Sony would have to start retrofiting consoles in order to swap for faster drives and, that would cause the cost to go higher. Sony's bottleneck design is hurting the PS3 as much as the overheating is hurting the 360. Atleast the 360 is being recalled and new 360's are slowly replacing the old but... what is Sony going to do?

[DarkSniper]

Continue to make durable consoles that work.

$niper

[heyheyhey]

yeah Sony should publicize the upgradeable HDD capability by say... branding huge drives (like 320gb) and selling them in gaming retailers

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

http://n4g.com/gaming/NewsC... Do you realy wan't me to do it again?

How many games you own Sniper? is your hard drive full yet, or are you still waiting on your next game to finish installing?

Wait to install
wait for games
wait for loading
wait for ingame XMB
wait for Home
wait for FF
wait for MGS4
Wait for Resistance 2
Wait for Killzone 2
Wait for ingame music
Wait for more than 2 multi games that actualy look and play better
Wait for rumble
wait for everything, but the movies.

$niper (curb stomped)

[akaFullMetal]

I own
warhawk
fightnight 3
ratchet and clank
uncharted
lego star wars
cod4
unreal 3
resistance
assasins creed
mx vs atv
eye of judgement
dmc4 and the only one that has a mandatory download is dmc4, and also i have the 60 gb ps3, and i still have 25 gigs left, after all the music and family guy that i have downloaded to my ps3, and for some reason i do have to get more space, then ill buy a hard drive that will be way bigger and cheaper than yours, so who is winning here, ahaahha that would be not you if you didnt know!

[CaliGamer]

If all PS3s didn't come with a HD, but since they do it shows that if indeed the BD is significantly slower they have acknowledged the issue and included a solution for devs.

It's sad when you need to resort to bragging about installation, something that both you and I know will become more important as time passes. Last time I looked I didn't see devs complaining about the standard HD in PS3's, they do about the lack of it in the 360's. Just a thought.

By the way, that owning was weak, I think sniper said more in his one sentence than you did in your whole rant. He definetely struck a nerve as is evident by your outburst.

Anyway Jason, proceed.

[wAtdaFck]

I'm so GLAD that your satisfied with your console, seeing that your up and smiles insulting ours. Since we have to wait for all these things, there is still something to let you know. It all comes to us for the better. The quality is there, the service is there, besides...its all worth the wait. And since you had to deal with absolutely NO waiting, lets see how much more quality and service your product has, shall we?

360 and its RROD
360 and it Scratches Discs
360 and its 44 decibels of noise
360 and its multi-disc games (DVD9)
360 and its upscaled (non-native) 1080p
360 and its more $$$ for WiFi
360 and its more $$$ for rechargables
360 and its more $$$ for themes/icons
360 and its $100 for 20GB's
360 and its $40 to transfer your Gamer ID (memory card)
360 and its out-of-date memory card (PSOne used those)
360 and its $50 a year (a game) of online play
360 and its delayed demos if you don't pay $$$

Gee...and unfortunately for us PS3 owners, we get all of the above for free (except the defections)...

So much for Quality. Oh well.

And while i'm at it:
wait for games
_____ out of the entire catalogue, less than 5% are delayed.
Wait to install
wait for loading
_____ The reason we have install is for less loading times (duh)
Wait for Resistance 2
_____ That was never delayed (shows how much you know)
wait for everything, but the movies.
_____ I didn't wait for:
Free Online Service
Quality Hardware
Quality Games of 07
(which pretty much sums up the guaranteed entirety of what is the PlayStation 3)

Now go RROD, XBOT

[ruibing]

@jason
I've owned over half a dozen PS3 titles and they are all currently on my system, the only one that required an installation by DMC4. None of the other had any problems with load times. Blame Capcom if you must, but all I want to say is at least the system has a HDD. It's only been two to three years into this generation and we are already seeing load time being a factor for the 360, can it even sustain itself when developers all cry out for the feature later on?

I feel all this angst against the PS3 for its Blu Ray drive is nothing more than sour grapes. Blu Ray will replace DVD sooner or later. Games are already starting to make use of all the space Blu Ray provides. MGS4 has trouble being compressed to 50GB, and each level on KZ2 is 2GB. Sooner or later even PS3 games might be forced to use two discs, I wonder how many the 360 will need by then.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

What "devs complaining" other than the ones for the Bourne game or devs that work for Sony? It would seem and is apparent, that only that the PS3 is the only home console required to "install". Devs don't seem to have much of a problem with the Wii, or 360. :) It's put the disc in and play. Can you say the same?

Everything I type is a rant, if you did some research and actualy clicked my name you would see that. You know click "my name" and then comments and "READ"? It's not so hard, here I click your name and I see that maybe Sniper is a buddy, that needed help.

See a nice little rant, not like the 5 page rants that seem to clutter your profile http://n4g.com/up/4903/comm... What?

[wAtdaFck]

If you had actually read the article, you would have known that the games on 360 in a way, do install information into the memory cache while the game is playing. So, its not just 'Put the disc in and play.' Theres more to it than meets the eye. Everytime you load a game, the game installs temporary information onto the 360, which gets wiped out on every shut down. On the PS3, its put the disc in and install the information forever, and then 'put the disc in and play.' From there, there is no need to store information into the memory cache until you decide to wipe the HDD of that particular information.

And since the 360 does not come equipped with a standard HDD, the 360 misses out on the shorter load times experienced by PS3 users.

[CaliGamer]

Perhaps you are unclear about what a rant is, let me get the definition for you.

Rant: http://dictionary.reference... click here if you would like to know what a rant is, anyone that looks at my comments can see that none of this applies to me sir.

You on the other hand are very defensive, it's funny how rather than come with any facts to counter what I have said you just give a pathetic attempt at a personal attack.

Very sad indeed, at least we all know what reality is. I hope you get comfortable with complaints about the 360's design because they aren't going away just because you want them to.

Good day sir.

[SuperSaiyan4]

You are all two faced you are saying its not an issue doing 5gb installs when it clearly is wake up! Am sure if the 360 had to do installs you would all be laughing.

[blazebolt]

Installs onto hard drives makes it easier on developers and will become more common in the future. Wheather it be a first time install or in-game install. No we would not be laughing when the 360 has to do installs, we'd be laughing when the 360 has to do disc swaps.

[Salvadore]

I wouldn't mind waiting 5 or 10 minutes for an installation and be able to access the XMB, but as I consumer, I personally don't feel it's acceptable to wait 20 or 30 minutes for 5gb installation when other games are capable of doing this in a lesser time. I have suggested this a couple of times and I will say it again; Make it an option, let those who are willing to be patient wait and let the other lot play with longer loadtimes.

[CaliGamer]

I would have to say that this ONE TIME installation "problem" is interesting because it really brings up a very basic question, what is worst.

Working around a ONE TIME installation is possible as was shown by Oblivion and other games, basically it's up to the devs how to deal with this issue and with time there will be more solutions available. Capcom is what it is this gen, I don't see why anyone would hold them up as some industry leader in technology as arguably none of their games really do anything revolutionary.

On the other hand the DVD9 in the 360 is a stagnant and basically unchangeable component. There is no way MS can upgrade the DVD9 unless they released a whole new 360. Compression only goes so far as is evident by Blue Dragon and LO and the problem will most likely be compounded in the coming years. DVD9 is a throwback to an era long past and this is a design choice that will haunt MS for years to come.

So back to the issue, which one would you rather have, an advantage that is only present now because the games that we are seeing are still in the preliminary stages of what they will become, or one that can easily be worked around/upgraded and in the end take away nothing but time for a ONE TIME INITIAL INSTALLATION and add the flexibility that developers need as gaming technology advances?

In my opinion the answer is simple, I would rather sit and wait OCCASIONALLY for an installation knowing that my system will be relevant for another 6 years at least, rather than worry that developers will become frustrated with the constraints inherent in my consoles design.

Lets face it this debate is about as relevant as people saying Obama doesn't salute the flag or wear an American flag lapel pin, it all amounts to nitpicking in the end. PC's are arguably the epitome of gaming and they use installation for various reasons, if consoles want to continue moving forward this is the only way to do it that is viable over the long term.

But, to each his own, I don't find installations a problem, but then I didn't find waiting for the PS3 to be released a problem either. I guess peoples patience differ and what a person finds important is up to the individual.

Game on.

[ReBurn]

It's neither one time nor occasional if you own the 20gb model. Three 5gb installs and those are the only games you can play. Unless you constantly delete and reinstall, or upgrade the HD.

[Grimlock]

Me Grimlock not very tech savvy, me always wonder why the super Ps3 takes so long to play games. Me Grimlock no like to wait for stupid loading, and stupid install. Me grimlock likes 360 when me download demo and me can play instantly after. Me very happy for that. Me Grimlock also thinks that it is very stupid to use cell phone to get friends to play online for ps3. That makes me Grimlock very MAD!!

Me Grimlock new to N4G. Me likes this place!

[CaliGamer]

Good luck keeping that persona up for any extended period of time. I guess you must be bored doing whatever it is you do, hope this new avatar and personality fills that void in your life. As long as it makes you happy it make me happy ;-)

Game on bro.

[TwissT]

Hey Grimlock where are your other Dinobot companions? Still being constructed? Lol and bubbles for making an account for one of my favourite transformers.

[Antan]

"That 40gb version will fill just at 8 games"

But the PS3 has no games so it can`t possibly fill up the HD right? RIGHT?

end sarcasm.

[ruibing]

That's 8 Capcom games. I've got R&C, Uncharted, AC, and a bunch more that don't perform such an installation.

[IntelligentAj]

Am I the only one who notices that the very few games which require installs are getting more attention than the much better ones that didn't? If anything I think Uncharted would be a better example of PS3 power then DMC4 with it's unnecessary load time.

[fredy]

them good games you speak of somehow masked the loading times and did it well.

plenty of ways to hide a problem.

that is going to be the ps3 trend from here on..for so me of the shortcomings it may have.

Keyword: workarounds

@spike47 "It does'nt matter!!!!!!!!! We all have games that we wait for months and years, Why can't you wair 20 minutes so that u don't have to wait for load times and such."

another Keyword: wait.

You see where im getting at..lots of downtime

[CaliGamer]

But what you are witnessing is criticism out of convenience. By their logic we should look at Blue Dragon and LO as the 360's true potential rather than the numerous other titles on the 360 that don't come on multiple disks.

It's sad really but you can't help to feel bad for those who make a big deal out of this without looking at themselves or in this case their console of choice before slinging mud.

Bubbles for you for that most excellent post.

[Spike47]

about you take a survey of people who own a PS3 and see if they are okay with this.

It does'nt matter!!!!!!!!! We all have games that we wait for months and years, Why can't you wair 20 minutes so that u don't have to wait for load times and such.

Not only that, it's not that the ps3 has longer load times, its that Sony wants you to experience less load times.

Sorry, but I'm a ps3 owner and from personal experience I don't care,

these websites that make these useless articles are geting annoying.
I hope they have that option in gta4.

Seriously, this is like a whole new level of being a fanboy.

[timmyp53]

Wow. There are definately other options. Developers just gotta give the option.

[fredy]

now do you have the most cost effective soulutions? if so? lets hear it and the benefits..

[CaliGamer]

Your post are nonsense, I don't even know your point bro. Sad.

Cost effective solutions? What do you mean, like all PS3s having an HD? Your just rambling, the fact is a HD is more of an asset than a hindrance as can be seen by Burnout and The Bourne Conspiracy. As a matter of fact, just refer to my above post.

The things people say these days.

[Ri0tSquad]

99.9% of your negative, bashing comments are countered with comments you never reply to.....because there true. Your a tool, you have no credibility, you lie, you pull sh!t out of your ass, your biased, you troll...ha, dude, your garbage, shut up.

[GETPWNZORED]

"The easy answer to that is the fact that 360 installations aren't a viable option for those who bought Microsoft's Core and Arcade bundles - the ones without a hard drive."

-Actually, the easy answer to that is the fact that 360's optical drive is much faster than a BR drive. No need to install. I thought everyone knew this already?

[ReBurn]

On Ridge Racer 7 the install is optional, but it greatly reduces the in-game loading times. I think it's worth it, but it has to really be pinching owners of the 20gb model. Sure you can upgrade the hard drive, but that's just an added expense.

[TwissT]

Well I think that CVG brings a good point out that the Blu-ray disk read technology is still in its infancy and it will take a while to master the technology. Well until someone makes a better Blu-ray disk reader, I guess we have to deal with the installs like it or not. But the only gripe I have with it is that IF all future Ps3 games do come with a mandatory 5gb install, my hardrive will dry up fast.