At the "Lunch with the Luminaries" luncheon at GDC this year, Sony's president of worldwide studios Phil Harrison told EA's Neil Young that making Wii games may not be as viable as third-party publishers think.
I don't get it. If he means 3rd parties won't be able to fully exploit the Wii's userbase due to casual fare, then would'nt his statement also apply to LBP since the PS3's userbase is mostly hardcore? :/
I think hes more on about the fact that the vast majorty of the games wii owners are buying are nintendo games and not giving the 3rd party games much attention (which judging on games sales, this is kind of true) This is mainly due to the fact the wii has pulled in new audiences who are more interested in the likes of Wii Fit and Wii sports then any other titles
Im guessing its the other way around, he means theres no use in releasing good games on wii because most of them just want casual/mini game/waggle
The thing is, Sony is passing LBP as a hardcore game (or a game with the possibility of being hardcore). I think he's trying to drive the hardcore crowd away from Nintendo's console more than they already have to redirect them to the PS3. Dirty business if you ask me.
I think your opinion on what he's intent was behind those words is correct. From the news I've read only Nintendo's software is selling in the millions on the Wii and most of the other stuff like all that home exercise software only fares well in certain retirement homes across the country (and possibly to fat lonely gamers that want to mess around and shed some pounds at the same time). I just don't see too much potential left in the Wii. I've had some fun with it but its more fun to the casual consumer than the hardcore consumer.
He does not have to drive the Hardcores away from Nintendo. Most of them either already saw what the console was or do now after not playing the thing for months. Phils statement is completely true. Most of the Wii owners are people that might get 3 games a year. They dont need a lot of games because they only play every once in a while when they have friends over and want to have some fun. Plus, the Wii crowd is so uninformed about games that a major, and expensive game could go completely under the radar. And that is not dirty business. That is like saying Coke trying to get people away from Pepsi to get them to buy Coke is dirty business. No it is just business.
The PS fan base is very diverse. PS fanbasse are made up of hardcore,casuals and those in the middle like myself which i refer to as mainstream.
It's more like Coke telling commercial makers to put a hideous girl in a Pepsi commercial. It just seems fishy. 3rd parties can do whatever they want because they're not associated with any of the big 3. He shouldn't try to manipulate them.
I'm complex enough to fit both the casual and hardcore model everyone is always talking about. I would imagine a lot of people are as well. -CadDad
the hardcore gamer will buy a casual game but the casual game does not buy a hardcore game. Example: My grandma, who owns a Wii, will buy a Wii play or cooking mama. I, who own a PS3, will pick up a casual game as well. My grandma will not buy a game like Call of Duty 4 no matter what. It's too intimidating. The games have to stay casual and non-complex.
Resistace100 is correct I think, also it's true what Phil is saying only Nintendo games sell well on Nintendo consoles (most of the time).
I have a wii, buy many games (the ones I like), play on a regular basis, but also play on my PC, so what is he talking about? I can't play UT on the wii, but I can play it on my PC, so I am covered. 3rd party developers will be successful on the wii if they make good games (RE4 and GH3 come to mind...).
And he's right. No offence to Nintendo owners, who are still adamant abotu their console beign great, but it really is a fad. I've asked peopel I know, who own it (like mothers and children who own it) and they all agree it's like Pokemon, or Tamagochi or Furbies.... Just a fad. I wish they ahd broguht out hardcore console for their fans, or atleast amde it viable for Wii to be used as such. Ratehr thna a very slight upgrade from PS2. What I will say si that, this will hoepfully set Nintendo up for the next generation, more fuds that they satretd with on development of this generation, and with Wii profits, they amy ahve anotehr shot at the hardcore gaming market.
Fad was the word I was using before the thing came out. People cant say that it is not a fad because it is still popular. Boy bands took a while to finally die out. That was a huge fad. At least with the gamecube we got graphics on par with the PS2 like RE4. The Wii cannot produce RE5 graphics and therefor no one will take the Wii seriously as a console. If a developer needs money, they will throw together some puzzle game or mini game and throw it at the wall to see if it sticks.
Yes cause Pokemon is clearly a fad. It makes millions over a decade after its debut and you call it a fad? If the Wii was a fad it would have stopped selling out every week months ago.
Panther in my opinion the cube had superior gfx to the ps2 in most games. Re 4 was the gem but prime and many others also had amazing graphics that the ps2 couldnt rival. Ps2 had 100 times more games that rocked but it was ugly duckling graphicswise of the last gen. Most people never truly got to see the cube at its finest because nintendo didnt sell the component cables in retail outlets.
Did you ask me? Well, I can tell you right now, it isn't a fad. I play it regularly, buy games and have fun. So how is it a fad? So, if the wii is a fad, when does it stop being a fad? When it sells 20 Million units? (check), when you can't find it at the stores? (check)... Here is the kicker, since I am a gamer (not a fanboy), I accept the fact that there are games that will never play on the wii, and live with it. Thankfully great games like HL2, and UT3 are available on the PC so I can play them :).
I want In-Game XMB. Please.
Someone said somethin worth a damn in here.. bubbles 4 u good sir
I want XMB so bad as well, when the hell is Sony going to make it happen? They better make it happen before the next Xbox comes out.
C_SoL's comment is more important, then Nintendo, which has survived like c0caroaches over the years(with NUKES from Sony+ MS) with whatever they put out.
I agree! It’s not like they don’t have the talent or resources to make it happen. I think it will happen sooner or later.
Making Last gen games are alot easier to make than the complicated next gen games with high resolutions and complicted architecture. Wow is this really true?
If EA thinks making Smarty Pants for the Wii is as easy as making an XBLA game maybe they should drop the price to $19.99 or less. Looking at the games out there for the Wii I see motly a bunch of crap. It's like the console version of the DS.
because (literally) half of them aren`t gamers.
I agree completely. I would be bold to say more then half of them aren't gamers.
You couldn't of been more spot on. Thats exactly it too..... The Wii is more like a toy than anything. I have one, and I love it, but really its in a category of all its own. I don't even count it in the console race. To me, its the PS3 vs. 360 this generation.
But he does have a point.
It has been a while since I have heard anything from this man.
Yea its becommin CRUNCH time for these consoles.. Make or break for the next 4 or 5 years.. Time to let those Arrows Fly
He's been busy I think. Look at the bags under his eyes.
If Nintendo was what they once were... Zelda, Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime would've sold to 80% of the user base. Simple and clean... If you had a nes or snes... You had Zelda, Mario, Metroid. If you had an N64 even... you had Zelda and Mario. If you had a Gamecube... odds are you rented Mario Sunshine and Zelda wW... If you have a Wii, you rented Mario Galaxy, Zelda TP and Metroid prime... Their sales are not indicative of the success Nintendo once had with these games. The easy solution and answer... Wii owners aren't buying any games at all. Sure some are. The hardest, of hardcore fans... but to have 20 million wii's out there and only 3 million Mario's sold, if that. That's unheard of and would have never flown back in the day. Sonic would even roll over in his grave at those sales.
Mario has sold over 5.5 million copies. It's a lot harder to sell software when the industry is constantly bashing your console.
actually i think SMG sold over 5 mil- its an excellent game anyway the reason these iconic ninty games dont sell so well anymore is because too many parents buy their kids Wii's for chrimbo to keep them happy and being kids they want things like the simpsons games and barbies horse adventures rather than excellent titles like Metroid Prime 3 oh well, as long as ninty keeps making more Zelda and MP for hardcore gamers like me to enjoy then im happy
it obvious most of those people are not hardcore nintendo fans. 5.5million copies of mario still aint bad. oh yeah your a moron.
Harrison has a point there. Even us hardcore gamers (at least me) who have a Wii barely use it, I could be wrong though. The purpose of my wii is for parties, SSBB, and Mario Kart Wii.. I know so many people who own a wii, yet they aren't 'real gamers'. Just go along wit the fad or something. More like I want Super Smash Bros Brawl...then again. I could be wrong rCrysis
I got my Wii for those legendary Nintendo Franchise games.. So i guess hes right.. If i want some extra side games from 3rd party.. i got my PS3 and soon 360 for that..
You = Wii less?
what a loser.. sony is left with making excuses to try to get ahead of the wii.. but innovation wins always.
I guess that's why 1st part Wii games do better then the 3rd party one that hardly sells at all. Whoops that's what Phil Harrison meant.
sony is not making excuses. They're just stating the facts. Nintendo's 3rd party games aren't do as well as PS3 and 360 3rd party games. Why? Many people buy Nintendo for Nintendo games and there aren't as many hardcore gamers on Wii. It's been like that for Nintendo's past products. Sure there have been good 3rd party games but not as many as the PS3 and 360. Don't get me wrong, I own a Wii,PS3,360 and I am totally for Nintendo. But Sony is just stating the fact that 3rd party games for Wii is not selling well. And as for innovation who says Sony isn't innovative? PS1 started up the CD games. PS2 started the DVD games. PS3 just started up the blu-ray format. If that's not innovative, what is? rCrysis
As much as i love my Wii.. He is right.. Plus this is a console WAR.. A WAR that Phil is trying to win.. Cant get mad at him for trying to bring attention to the Playstation
If you played games for the last 20 years , beside the old nes , nintendo have always rely on there first party . They dont cared about third party ..
Nintendo has alwaya been all about their first party: Mario,Zelda, etc.
Even if it is true that 3rd parties can only reach 40% of the Wii's user base that still about the same size as PS3's ENTIRE user base.
Ps3-7 million selling games 3 are from sony. 4 are multy platform (We can get them on the xbox or pc) Console Publisher Japan America Others Total Motorstorm Sony 0.08 1.47 1.12 2.67 Resistance: Fall of Man Sony 0.14 1.03 1.13 2.30 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Activision 0.08 1.05 1.09 2.22 Assassins Creed Ubisoft 0.00 0.87 1.23 2.10 Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 Konami 0.28 0.00 0.98 1.26 FIFA 08 EA Sports 0.00 0.18 0.92 1.10 Uncharted: Drakes Fortune Sony 0.05 0.42 0.62 1.09 Wii-19 million sold (4 are multi platform)(Not including brawl which is 1.2mil sold in japan) 6 are 3rd party games. So pretty much wii's 3rd party games have sold as much as ps3 has. Fad-a temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct According to this the ps1 nintendo 64 where all fads(since no one buys them anymore).... The ps3/xbox360/wii are fads too. So yea wii is a fad...who cares? Anyways PC games such as starcraft,gunz, any other game>ps3+xbox+wii. Graphically the pc is more than the ps3
Your exactly right.
It`s just how it is. =) And you forgot to mention, that there are 21 mln. Wii sold and only 10 mln. PS3, when comparing mln. sellers. ;)
look at a alienware pc...it owns ps3 so badly that it hurts.If ps3/xbox games look better than pc games that either a lousy console port or it's not made properly...
i mean, seriously, look at the topselling games on the Wii. just about *ALL of them are Nintendo made games and franchises. when you have great games like Zack and Wiki failing to achieve sales, there is a *PROBLEM with the platform. i specifically mean, there is a problem with the userbase. look, i've been gaming a long time (since 1985; i was 6), but i *KNOW Nintendo fans. they are a proud, elitist bunch. i've had Nintendo fans, from the net, and in person, dismiss games like Fable and Shadow of the Colossus because "it's too much like Zelda, i'll play *THAT instead." or never want to give a game like Klonoa or Ratchet and Clank a try because "it's too much like Mario, and nobody except Shigeru Miyamoto can make good platformers." until Nintendo fans can get over their snobbiness concerning non-Nintendo made games, eventually third parties will abandon the Wii, because, for them at least, it's just not commercially viable. the same thing happened to the N64 and the Gamecube. *GREAT systems, but 3rd parties had a hard time rising out from under Nintendo's shadow in the minds of Nintendo fans. i though Nintendo fans would absolutely *EAT UP a game like Beyond Good and Evil last generation. it was beautiful, with an expertly written and acted story, and a control stream almost *LITERALLY ripped right out of the current, 3D Zeldas. the world of Hyllis was incredibly deep and realized, and the feeling of scope was fantastic. the game bombed all around (on PS2, X Box, and Gamecube), but i personally thought this game was right up a Gamecube gamer's alley (hell, i bought the Gamecube version myself). so, to Nintendo fans: if you guys care anything at *ALL about your console of choice, *SUPPORT the quality 3rd party games when they hit. looking at the scores of a lot of Wii games, those quality third party titles hit few and far between. just because you buy Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, doesn't mean that other developers can't offer an enjoyable time as well. hell, i *LOVE the Final Fantasy series, and think it's one of the best RPG series ever made, but that doesn't stop me from checking out, say, Rogue Galaxy, or Eternal Sonata. my point is that Nintendo isn't the only quality developer out there (just look at Insomniac, Naughty Dog, Bungie, Infinity Ward, Bethesda, Bioware, Team Ico, and sooo many others). broaden your horizons a bit, guys. i grew up with Mario, Zelda, and Metroid also, but i'm still itching to check out No More Heroes. hell, i'd even give Zack and Wiki a go, even though that's generally not my style of game. Nintendo may have a huge sales lead right *NOW, but if the lack of sales for 3rd parties continues, i'm afraid the Wii's lineup of quality games will dwindle just like the N64 and Gamecube's. we don't want a repeat of the last two gens in terms of software lineup (we can argue sales numbers all we want, but at the end of the day, it's the *GAMES that we care the most about).
I agree with you for the most part but.... BUT... RE4 for the WII is a MILLION Seller.. and its been out for so long.. I passed ZACK and WIKI.. in about 8/9 hours.. its not worth owning.. its a great game but its really short in my books.. i'm glad i rented it.. Wii is not likely to fail like the n64 and GC.. for 1 simple reason.. DEV COSTS.. in the previous generations all the dev costs were pretty much the same all around on the consoles since all had similar graphics.. i mean PS1 and N64 were pretty close.. and same with PS2 and GC.. however when budgets come into play its a lot LESS RISKY to make a game on the WII.. because if they used GC Dev kits they are set to go.. small learning curve and the cost to develope is much lower since its not all HD and whatnot.. but PS3/360 all have pretty much BIG BUDGET GAMES.. and if a big budget game fails its worse then a WII game failing.. now just my thoughts.. Also a lot of the third party games are CRAPTACULAR or have been out on other systems and only a few people buy them (like me, i bought God Father, and Scarface). I mean look at CRUISIN' it looks like the n64 game.. lets face it.. people will not buy total crap... no matter how shiny the box. another point i wish to make, which has been made above.. 40% of WII's audience is almost the same size as all of PS3s audience so when Harrison said this it kinda went FOR the wii.. i mean lower budget games that sell okay and are easy to make vs expensive games with new Dev kits... both being sold to about the same amount of people.. hmm.. (that just how i see it but i know thats not how it is) and my last point. Nintendo is the only DEV that actually makes A LOT of IN HOUSE game.. i mean a lot.. SONY makes a few.. MS makes almost none (anymore.. they used to make a lot back in the day for PC) technically all the games on the 360 are 3rd party.. cept some are exclusive.. cause they bought rights.. so in a way he is saying that NINTENDO's games are so good that 3rd parties don't stand a chance around, and theres a lot of em.. but SONY's games aren't as good and don't come out as often so people will buy 3rd party games to fill the gaps, and play some amazing games too.. i mean i buy a LOT of nintendo games because they are good quality and they are fun.. They are the only DEV that doesn't ever go Multiplatform and still sell millions that i know of (on a regular basis). However i do think WII owners should buy more 3rd party stuff like NO MORE HEROES.. which is an AMAZING GAME.. i am playing it through for the second time already. and we know that good quality games are actually selling or at least starting to and are actually POPPPING up.. i mean some of the stuff coming out for WII from the 3rd parties is pretty amazing.. i mean like WOW.. though i am totally waiting around for BRAWL now.. and i want BULLY as well when it comes out.. its 3rd party and its been out on another system but i played a lil and loved it so i wanna finish it now.. There are a lot of CASUALS in the WII market.. more then any other but we have our share of HARDCORE.. (like me) and to be honest i wish i had the money for all 3 so i can enjoy all the great games.. but i chose the WII cause its the only one with NINTENDO stuff and the price was right at launch. Besides a lot of the really good games that are out for PS3 and 360 are also popping up on the PC and my PC is pretty good to run em all.. sorry i talk so much.. i am a lil tired and just wanted to get everything outa my head and into this reply.. GO NINTENDO, GO SONY and GO MS.. i hope that all the consoles have good sales and good attach rates so we can all get some sweet games. :-)
lol...ok. its not nintendo's fault that sony dont have any brains in their camps that can think up innovation that can entertain a whole family.... that sony's focus is on shinier graphics.. and thirds partys are seing nintendo's vision and their games will sell alot more.
and thats why all they can do is try and catch microsoft cause nintendo is a much smarter company then they are and the hardware sales and the profits will continue to show and prove for nintendo. entertainment is not just about making a new shooter.
The thing about casual gamers is that they are very scattered on what games they want while hardcore gamers are more focused on what games they like. That along with lack of interest and loyalty in buying games makes the casual gamer bad business for whomever is supporting it.
Not nessasarily.. i mean if a casual gamer buys a game on a whim from 'COMPANY A' and they have a blast with the game.. they are so happy and love the game so much that they play it almost daily. Then this casual gamer steps into the game store and sees another game by the same publisher, but its a different style game. This is where the cross roads happen, they will either put it down because they honestly think it will not be their cup of tea or give it a shot since they liked the other game so much so this one could be just as good.. even if its is totally different. I think this will be about 50/50 that the person buys the game.. and if they like that one they will tell their friends about it as well.. so casuals can slowly turn into loyal fans if the games suit them. I mean even hardcore would be deamed CASUAL by your standards since we are not LOYAL to 1 company.. we just want good games, usually stuff we like. From all the years as a gamer i learned something.. Sometimes games look fun on the box and are boring and broken as hell.. sometimes games look boring on the box but its the funnest bag of tricks you ever seen. So never be loyal to 1 brand unless they are consistant.
It sounds like Phil you are mad that you are going to be Second behind Nintendo this Gen. LOL
sour grapes...pfff, the man just speaks the truth
sucks a$$! Every true gamer knows that. Well it does have super smash and you can get zelda on gamecube, so yea
you sir are ignorant and that obvious. why would you even post on a game site when you know nothing about games. bet you own a ps3 judging by your stupidity.
I mean a casual is some body who plays them casually. And there are genres that cater directly to them (mini-games, fitness, music games, puzzles, sports* etc.) Now Sony has some of these genres already, but as someone stated earlier simply cannot get in-house nintendo games. And I'm sorry as a life long gamer with over 1000 games, nintendo is by far the best in the business. Nintendo does have some hardcore games itself (Mario, Zelda, Metroid etc.) And the 3rd party hardcore games sell at least a half-million copies. so its not all bad as the GAMING MEDIA potrays the Wii. As far as console sales; if nintendo can keep pace and keep delivering great titles they can easily reach 100 million consoles imho.
You make a good point. I probably play video games on average for about a half-hour a day (less than that that when my workload gets too high), so over the years, I feel that I have casually played Final Fantasy, casually played Halo, casually played Ocarina of Time, etc. But these are not "casual" games. I wonder if there is a term for someone who casually plays "hardcore" games? On-topic: I feel that there's been a rash of juvenile pot-shots being made in the entertainment industry of late. (e.g. Toshiba ripping on Sony for kicking their rear ends in the High Def movie department) This is just more of the same.
Even though you dint get the gamers, you got a few lamers and lots of movie buffs.
you cant shine a turd no matter how hard you try, ill put the wii in the box marked, worst mainstream console ever.
this guys a prat
The Wii is everyone's favorite box to bash on, but it delivers consistent sales and software performance week over week. What Harrison is really telling developers is that they aren't capable of developing software that will be successful on the Wii. Even at only 40% of the market, that's potential for 8 million in unit sales after only one year on the market. Enough to make any game successful by anyone's standards. As much as I hate to say it, it seems to me that this is some verifiable FUD from Harrison. Raw data demonstrates that it is actually more difficult for developers to be successful on his console right now than Nintendo's, so he has to find a way to get people on board with Sony. He's trying to talk developers out of making Wii games by telling them that there's no way to be successful doing it. Nintendo consistently proves that wrong by delivering software innovative enough to use the Wii to it's potential. Yeah, the box doesn't have PS3 graphics. It can't process physics calculations in such a way as to make games more realistic. But it delivers on simple fun, and that's why it is beating the pants off of everything else out there right now.
These Sony Dudes are some Fuking Haters for no reason. Damn!!! Worry about making your own fuking games sell. Microsft has a few titles that sold more than 4 million copies while the highest selling PS3 game is a FPS and a Original Xbox game.
@gamesblow - Uhm.. what are you talking about?? "That's unheard of and would have never flown back in the day." Uhm.. go look at the best ps2 games and then look at the install base... Sales for the best games on the PS2 were nothing close to that of the install base.. And, sorry for this comment but it' hilarious.. "Someone should remind Mr. Harrison that 40% of the Wii's installed base is close to the same number as the entire Playstation 3's installed base." It's on the sites comment section. It made me laugh..