Posted by Sid Shuman // Social Media Manager -
It’s easy to forget that “tactical espionage action” is a relatively recent innovation in the videogame medium, with trailblazers like Metal Gear Solid and Syphon Filter emerging in the late ’90s to great acclaim and even greater influence. A more realistic, open-ended philosophy towards combat soon spread through the action genre, permanently impacting the development of artificial intelligence, level design, and narrative — ultimately paving the way for everything from Sly Cooper to Assassin’s Creed.
Days Gone director John Garvin blamed "woke journalists" for the poor reception to the game, but developer Bend Studio doesn't share his opinion.
The game got bad reviews because most reviewers played a buggy build of the game which there was a massive patch for on day one. I played the game on day one and didn't experience any issues that were talked about in a few reviews I watched. Days gone is an amazing game and the developers should have sent out a build of the game without a lot of the issues to reviewers.
I was referring to this article and how the director accused reviews of being "woke" only to have that studio distance themselves from him.
Days Gone wasn't a bad game .... technically it was a really well made UE4 game that had a terribly buggy launch.
Yes, compared to other Sony first party of that gen, like horizon, god of war and spiderman, it was no where close to those. So if those games can be awarded 8.5s-9s-10s, then .... Days Gone (in its current iteration) is 7.5 at best (without delving into the silly controversies and politics).
Wouldn’t you distance yourself from angry old morons who don’t know who “woke” people are.
Of course the studio won't share his opinion even if it's accurate. Far easier to throw someone under the bus and pretend to be the innocent good guy.
However it isnt accurate, unless you have something substantial to add to the discussion, that is. Do you have anything substantial, adding to these claims?
Since I've shared a couple times in previous DG article, I'll bring it up here again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ko...
^This collection is the best evidence I've seen when talking about Garvin's woke criticism. He's also relying on one of Sam Witwer's quotes regarding the whole "they didn't even finish the game." Witwer saw one unnamed review that never mentioned the Horde gameplay and had some plot-related tells.
Personally, I can understand where he's coming from even though he's still making an unfair generalization against *CRITICS* as a collective. When the Gamespot reviewer gives a scathing score and then provides supplemental commentary like "omg girlfriend flaunting her ass to boyfriend" on Twitter, it's just... weird. There's an odd fixation some of these writers have that - I believe - harms their professionalism.
It isn't accurate at all though.
Red Dead Redemption 2
Release Date: Oct 26, 2018
Metacritic: 97 (7th highest rated game of all time)
Main character: straight white male protagonist.
Days Gone
Release Date: Apr 26, 2019 (exactly 6 months later)
Metacritic: 71
Main character: straight white male protagonist
"We all know that this game was docked points by the woke mob because ... Deacon is a straight white male protagonist!"
ffs
When are people going to drop this? The game came out years ago.
The game didn't magically get dropped from a 10 out of 10 across the board because a couple dumb reviewers tried to stir up identity politics.
Way to pull a random comparison out of your butt. Did Red Dead receive numerous internet articles docking points from it for the fact that he was white? Or that he stared at his GF's butt when she bent over? I sure can't find any.
Did Days Gone? Absolutely. I even recall one pointing out the fact that none of the zombies were black or other colors besides white lol
The game gets very very good in the back half, but of course reviewers didn't get that far to notice.
It was heavily compared to The Last of Us and Left 4 Dead as well. Both of which are better games on their own merits.
It was a couple reviews that went the woke route. Not a big deal in the end. Anit wokeness is more annoying then actual wokeness. I swear
But it is accurate because there isn't any mention of straight white male in red dead redemption but there is mentions of it with days gone. Red Dead redemption is not a new IP and days gone was a new IP. It was the opening they needed to go against any kind of white male protagonist and especially a biker. All you have to do is look at the user reception versus the critic reception and there's your answer. And if you actually want to be informed just read all the articles written around the time of days gone release and prior to its release and you'll start seeing some patterns. Unless of course you're unable to see the patterns but that's not my fault or anyone else's
And the someone mentioned to your comment there was an article about how the zombies were somehow racist or at least the design of them was racist because there were no black zombies. Which was of course ridiculous as they're not exactly zombies and it goes with a lore. If that isn't enough to convince you that they were clear narrative against the game based on wokeism I don't know what else to tell you.
And yes a few or in this case quite a few articles stirring up identity politics and pointing their wagging finger at a game can and does influence other reviews. You think review sites will praise a game that's being labeled as racist, toxic masculinity and a bunch of other crap? No. They won't praise that game. It would place a cross hair on their heads.
I remember the main criticisms of Days Gone forms critics was the presence of bugs and performance issues. Many critics had issues with the gameplay too. Docking points from games for perceived gameplay faults, bugs, performance and other issues is perfectly fair. Days Gone director is overly disgruntled, as the game released 3 years ago.
Tell me you didn't play Days Gone, without telling me you didn't play Days Gone.
For a game to get 7s and 8s by some, thats pretty good imo. Back then was a little harsher to. Today you have whack games like pentiment getting 9s and 10s lol. Ill take days gone over that anyday. Days gone I played after about a year from release and enjoyed the hell out of it. There was one review I remember from poloygon that killed the game(kayliee something or other) but we must of played different games. Thats also one of the reason I dont trust reviews.
@shinoff2183
"Today you have whack games like pentiment getting 9s and 10s lol"
have you ever thought that simple low budget games can be really good?
example Hades, Celeste, Disco Elysium, Dead Cells etc etc ...
and AAA games being really mediocre?
example Callisto Protocol, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Order 1886, FO76
and AAA being also bad?
example Anthem, Metal Gear Survive, Marvel's Avengers
Days Gone was one of the BEST last gen games. As for reviews? Gavin was absolutely right. You could tell some reviewers hadn’t played the game through to completion.
Just like Rico’s swearing in Killzone 2. I guess in times of war. You’re not aloud to swear. Well F that
Rico is definitely an asshole. lol
He messed up everything at the end of Killzone 2.
https://youtu.be/uhg9eJoR_L...
No one said you can't swear while at war. It's just about the absurd frequency of it. Literally every sentence, sometimes multiple F bombs in the same damn sentence. It was cringe, reminds me of Kane & Lynch which had the same issue. It didn't take away from Killzone 2 being a great game but it was still annoying.
It's funny because my dad was special forces and he curses every other word, the same as his team. Perhaps there is some validity in the depiction of Rico to the men who put their lives on the line for people too offended by their linguistic vanacular choices. They're hard enough to fight for our freedoms but let's dissect their vocabulary to diminish their contributions. I guess speech is free as long as it doesn't rub anyone the wrong way. Why would the way someone communicates annoy you if they're getting the job that you're not doing done. Art often imitates life.
If the reviewers are too sheltered to realize that a individual's communication style is usually determined by their life conditions they shouldn't be reviewing it. They did crucify Deacon/Rico every chance that they got as society does to any masculine depiction today. They were just victims of the beginning stages of what we're witnessing currently.
I swear alot, alot of people actually do, not a reason to knock a game cause your panties rode your ass about it
@surgical
"They're hard enough to fight for our freedoms but let's dissect their vocabulary to diminish their contributions."
Wtf are you talking about? No one is diminishing anyone's contributions.
"They did crucify Deacon/Rico every chance that they got as society does to any masculine depiction today."
Masculine? Since when is swearing an exclusively male trait?
@shinoff
1) I'm not knocking the game. I literally said it didn't take away from Killzone 2 being a great game.
2) I swear a lot as well. I don't have an issue with swearing, hell two of my favourite films are Casino and Goodfellas. I know plenty of people who drop a lot of F bombs, again myself included. Rico was on an entirely different level though. I know several veterans both younger and older, and while they all swear profusely like me none of them swear as much as Rico.
If his dialogue felt natural it wouldn't have been an issue but instead it felt like it was written by a teenager who just learned to swear. Guerilla admitted they got it wrong and toned it down for Killzone 3, though if I'm being honest I think they cut it back too much.
@Swinechop
Only if you've been under a rock or are already effeminate there's no way that you haven't encountered the double standards concerning the conduct in masculine men that are found in females as well. If I have to explain it to you, it's too late as there's no way to come back from being neutered. Or maybe you prefer your women to exhibit qualities more associated to men.🤷🏾♂️
Speaking on the diction of soldiers, who gives a fuck how they talk in an environment of life or death. Hell, since you put your life on the line you can talk however the f*** you see fit. This is my meaning as both men where not depicted to be Nancy types who gets offended when they hear too many naughty words.🤣
@SurgicalMenace
"Since you put your life on the line you can talk however the f*** you see fit"... Wow, spoken like a true wannabe.
Also you can say "fuck" on this site, in fact you just did a sentence before that, why you backing out? Afraid too much swearing like cheapens your argument or something? According to your own bullshit you better watch out that weak ass swearing don't have you growing a vagina or something.
I will never believe and or trust a director (or whatever he was) that says his game is way better than what people thought it was. It's arrogant and childish. He acts like everyone thought the game was trash and had a political agenda with their reviews (some of them did, but the do that for every game) and now tries to justify the "lower" metacritic score that it's not because the game wasn't good enough.
Day’s Gone was an 8/10 at best. Many reviewed don’t play these open world games to completion unless they get a review copy weeks in advance. Doesn’t help that Day’s Gone doesn’t have options to fight hordes until the endgame. No amount of “wokeness” changes that. (Also, why is caring about other people a bad thing? Societies are built on positive human interaction.)
The sad thing is, he was actually right. I read some of them and even watched some youtube reviews and the fact that the protagonist was a white male was a bad point for a lot of them. As for the bugs and glitches, somehow Bethesda games and Bioware games, which are so much worst, get a free pass, but this doesn't? Yeah, those reviewers were clearly biased.
The critic score is 71, yet the userscore is 8.4. This is definitely one of those games were the userscore is correct and the critics just got it wrong.
Garvin blames Days Gone's score on "woke reviewers who couldn't handle a gruff white biker looking at his date's a**."
Agreed. Let's be honest, it suffered performance issues at launch, which were fixed after a few weeks, but that doesn't make Garvin wrong here.
The most cutting reviews barely mentioned the technical aspects, focusing instead on their woke outrage at yet another gruff, white, male protagonist. That was apparently the 'cool' take at the time...
We can all look back on those reviews and laugh at them, particularly because anyone with a PS5 gets to play the game for free (along with 20-odd other classics) and can see how wrong those reviewers were for themselves.
I believe the IP will return. Given the crap flung at the game at launch )and how it impacted the views of people that hadn't even played it) it was the right decision to rest the franchise instead of going straight into a sequel.
I hope to see it again, now so many have enjoyed it for themselves.
I imagine it's at least on a shortlist for a sequel since they took the time to release a PC port
Played it for "free" on the ps5 and I usually am much harsher on free games course there is so called no money invested. But it's honestly one of the better games I've played. The only thing i maybe didn't like was the fuel mechanic, but it becomes better once you upgrade.
I wonder if Calisto Protocol would get the same treatment..after all the launch issues are fixed.
You know what's really annoying? Seeing the term "woke" be co-opted by people who don't know what woke means.
Word has been used as slang almost as long as I've been alive. Now the squares are using it to describe socially sensitive people.
It's one of those things like a guy getting their ear pierced. It meant something, and now that everyone doing it, the meaning is lost.
Anyway, just ranting. I think that's a weird take from Garvin (and ironic for him to focus on characteristics he blames others for focusing on as the issue). I honestly think a lot of reviewers went into it with the impression left by trailers: largely generic. No matter what Deacon looked like, it was an open world zombie game with a motorcycle. I can see enough reasons for reviewers to feel some type of way and other people feeling compelled to kinda wait for it to hit the bargain bin and being a new IP isn't an advantage.
I think it was only literally a couple reviews that went that route, even then one probably just piggybacked off the other.
Game was great, I loved the hordes and tenseness that I felt or just driving around on the bike, and I hate motorcycles with a passion. It was fun. Parts couldve been better but It was still great imo. and I got that secret ending.
Plat'ed it, it's a deserved score IMHO. It's a good game, but not great and not mediocre. Just in between.
And my issues had nothing to do with any of the stuff this guy mentions but more gameplay, performance, and generally how annoying it is to hear Deacon shout out things to people he hears on the radio while he rides his motorcycle across the landscape.
It was an unfair attribution by a very minor few as another "gruff white male" but those are people who look for this stuff for clicks and were only seen because gamers can't not click on controversial stuff to save their lives. Always have to give these people clicks, and they keep doing it just for the clicks. Good job gamers. You've played yourselves.
I don't find anything wrong with having an itchy left-click finger when it comes to controversial news. I actually find that attractive in women. If I find a woman who's prepared to potentially burn a bridge between someone close to her, simply because she feels passionate enough to speak her truth on a hot topic, I think that's sexy.
Gamers are hot. We're hot 😎
I just make sure mom bathes me at least once per month, when she's not making me hot pockets... And I'm good!
.
I have a motorbike and you shout while having the mic on because of the bike engine noise being so loud, so it was actually realistic.
Having said that because it's a game it would have come across to the gamer better having a more toned down voice in those instances when it happened.
It's like when you talk having a headset on, you talk louder without realising it.
@EvertonFC. That's the thing, he wasn't talking into a microphone or to someone else in the face. He was just yelling to himself. Literally yelling at the player and nothing else.
Note, by radio I mean the radio broadcasts, not the type to communicate to others. You don't have that.
I just realized that my mom joke unintentionally may come across as incestuous. Whoops... I didn't mean that.
Cartman's mom giving him hot pockets during the South Park World of Warcraft episode still depicts the archetypal gamer I think. That's all I was shooting for with my funny 🙃
Not even the radio. He just randomly yells. Here he says one line normally to a girl on his bike, then his next line he's yelling for no reason.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
There used to be a longer compilation video with more stuff like this and his insane ramblings. Thinking back on the game now, I don't think I really liked any character in the game.
Christopher I disagree about the game with you, I do agree about your 2nd take
Far as him talking to himself , or yelling eh no big deal, he was kind of a loner for awhile in a zombie infested ruined world, Id probably talk to and yell myself out there
***or yelling eh no big deal, he was kind of a loner for awhile in a zombie infested ruined world, Id probably talk to and yell myself out there***
Nothing says "surviving the zombie apocalypse" like attracting noise-sensitive enemies by making a lot of noise.
Being it was already pitched and was shot down, don't see that happening anytime soon; honestly.
That's because they pitched a MP style open world game so there is still a chance maybe down the line.
@everton
You can keep pushing that narrative, but that's not true.
It was simply shot down by Sony. Obviously the original didn't meet expectations for a sequel.
There were multiplayer elements pitched and greenlit for the original game. They just didn't make it in due to time constraints. They were to be a separate element from the single player, just as was true when they pitched a sequel.
Sony wouldn't just shoot down a game for providing more content that they already were happy to see originally but never made it to the final product.
It gets old watching people just make stuff up to back a narrative they want to convey.
Its definitely been reported that it was pitched as a MP, do you work at sony madlad? Can you verify that it wasnt.
If woke reviewers were so small minded to do that, then its sad.
The game was awesome. One of my favorites from last generation for sure.
That is exactly the problem when a lot of people say a review is simply someone’s opinion but that opinion could affect how much other people make on their jobs and whether or not they get to keep their job or make a sequel. Yes it’s subjective but review the game fair and square ago in with an open mind please
Its hard to know how accurate some of the reviews are when these woke reviewers look at the game through a distorted lens and push an agenda.
“Days Gone Creative Director Blames Bugs, Reviewers Not Bothering to Play and "Woke" Reviewers For Lack of Better Reception“
Actual title since they cherry picked the wording.
Became a solid game but released in a very unpolished state.
I do believe that some of the reviewers were particularly hard on the game due to their wokeness however.
I think he means like, you know, everyone calling Deacon from the start because he was a white biker looking guy, most likely relating him to some right wing bikers in the world, that stereotype.
Gavin said it got bad reviews because he white and he love looking at ass lol wtf but snake and Dante and Kratos and Drake and Author from RdR2 say other wise.
Him being white got nothing to do with the game being bad, all the bugs and glitches had something to do with the meta score and bland writing.
Perhaps
I mean Garvin’s wording is over the top but Deacon and the game because of it was hated from the start even before anything was shown
It was held under a constant microscope and nitpicked
I still just find it a copout excuse. There's a couple reviews that mentioned that. The majority just stated he was a weak, generic written protagonist in general.
The game got less than stellar reviews due to Luke warm writing, performance issues, the glitches, and the terrible pacing.
I played and enjoyed the game, I'd give it a 7. Good, but not great.
“Him being white got nothing to do with the game being bad, all the bugs and glitches had something to do with the meta score and bland writing.“
He also blamed bugs for the reviews. Idk why they cut it from the title.
@sonyslave3
All those characters you mentioned +Ave been around for a loooong time. This was a brand new main character. That's the difference.
Not saying I agree with it.
I dont care if the main character is white black yellow red female or male just make a good game with a good story and Days Gone was definitely a good game .
Reviewers need to focus on what is there not what isn’t . The technical issues should have knocked the score down some and how they liked the game or didn’t not who they character is
@jznrpg
"The technical issues should have knocked the score down some and how they liked the game or didn’t not who they character is"
Was the character's identity given more weight in the reviews than more important elements, like the ones you mentioned, or are people ignoring more significant critiques in certain reviews and leaping to the conclusion that observations about his identity resulted in lower scores and that it occurred in enough reviews to have the effect the former creative director is attributing to it?
Sonyslave3 dont you have a wall to stare at. I know you aint got no games to play. I played it 1 year or so after release and had no issue, not saying there wasnt at launch but lets be honest what AAA game doesnt these days since last gen. Far as the writing and story thats debatable and just opinion.
I think he give the woke people way too much power. and put an unnecessary target on his back.
I think the "white male looking at wife's ass" thing in referencing a specific clique of critics who were dogging the game early on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ko...
Yes but the same kind of tone was found in many other reviews that didnt specifically say the same thing.
@Crows90
I mean... I looked into some of them back then and found the accusation wanting. I have changed my mind and *DO* believe some 'woke' unprofessionalism seeped into it, but it still seems quite limited. I'm open for more evidence though, b/c Gamespot's Kallie Plagge was an eye-opener.
"Lol what"
What he's saying is:
̶G̶o̶ ̶w̶o̶k̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶ Waaaah! We went broke because we didn't go woke.
I think a lot of reviewers went into this game with their mind already made up, that being said it is one of the roughest games from Sony's 1st party and dont think it deserves some of the very high praise it gets from fans. I think it was very good, with a 2nd act that drags on. I also dont get why they didn't put more focus on the hoards, you're only required to encounter the 2 smallest hoards throughout the entire campaign and the rest of them are just up to you, shame cause that's the biggest thing that sets it apart and it's super fun. I would love a sequel so they can improve on the formula, but we'll just have to wait and see what Bend announces next, hopefully during the VGAs tomorrow
Did we play the same game? The sawmill hoard maybe? The other big hoard you test the napalm on? Both of those hoards are story related.
Edit: There's also a hoard in a cave you run into if you aren't quiet, while looking for something for O'Brian. Might be with Skizzo that you're helping. Can't remember who exactly.
Yes those are the hoards im talking about, and though they are crazy big hoards, compared to ALL the hoards in the game, those two are some of the smallest.
Most are so big you really REALLY have to plan your route with ammo resupply points (like your bike) choke points and traps, even fully upgraded
The sawmill hoard is the biggest one in the game with around 500 freakers. The hoard you test the napalm on is about the same size as the rest of the big hoards in the southern area. Certainly not smaller then the rest of the southern hoards.
The campaign doesnt require you to fight the full hoard at the sawmill, you encounter a hoard, but the full hoard is still there after that mission. Either way still doesn't change my point of not focusing on the hoards. There's lots of them, yet the game doesn't focus on them till you beat the game, honestly i feel like that should've been used to fill out that dragging 2nd act
All this conversation has taught me is that I want to download Days Gone again and kill some hoards.
You played it wrong if you think there is only 2 hoards required in the campaign, did you rush through it in 40hours ? Took me 119hours.
Nope, beat the game at just under 100hrs, did every side mission, cleared every nest, 100% upgraded, did pretty much everything except the bird nests and clear all hoards
I agree that this was the roughest PS4 first-party title. The dialogue was bad because Deacon was such a bitter character, not because he fulfilled any stereotype. It was so annoying his constant grunting and his dismissiveness towards the NPCs that dealt with his condescending attitude.
The mixed-race lesbian couple was a total cloche stereotype though. They checked three diversity boxes by writing two shallow characters who had personality traits that contrasted harshly with the game world, one so needy and dependant that it doesn't make any sense that person would survive even a day in the apocalypse.
In terms of gameplay, it took dozens of hours before you could upgrade your bike to drive a decent length. But once you get to the meat of the game, with weapons of decent ammo capacity and a bike that can drive a few miles, there wasn't anything else that felt quite like it and the bike itself was some of my favorite feeling open-world traversal.
At the end I'd give it a 6/10, because the first 30 hours were really awful but the last 30 were dramatically better, like a sequel was built into it already. I've got no interest in a Days Gone sequel, even less so if Deacon returns, but Bend demonstrated in the second half that they do know how to build a big, relatively cohesive world with a multilayered story.
They could've done more hoards if they didn't waste 30 hours RPGing the player to level up enough to handle even the lightest of them.
A 7-8/10 game that got 7/10 reviews. That's OK.
Dude seems to like making some bitter statements every few months to get some coverage (stay relevant) after being let go.
Dude, Phil can burp and someone posts about it and ends up the hottest story on n4g.
Think that says more about n4g...
^ Agreed, it's a PR machine. Some people earn their column inches. Ones that can't often choose to buy them. Those are your 'Phil Says' articles.
Agree. Days Gone needed a little more something, like player choice in the story or moving the hoard fighting to the earlier acts. Solid 8/10 from me.
Following the announcement by NetEase of a game called Ashfall, controversy ensued with Liithos, which had pitched an Ashfall of their own.
I just bought this today.
A game ahead of its time even for today games standards is pretty impressive in some areas considering the time it came out.
Love everything about this game,the weapons,the levels, voice acting, story, the gun sounds and soundtrack are awesome.
Metal Gear Solid , the game which was directly inspired by it , as clearly a better storyline and characters (and 007 goldeneye according to John Garvin) but when it comes down about gameplay i still keep coming back to this game after so many years because its chalenging and fun.
Such a memorable game from its time that will be never forgotten by many gamers.
The train level in Syphon Filter 2 (I think it was 2?) Was soo good! Loved these games.. we definatly need another from the franchise.
I still have my copy of Syphon Filter II somewhere, unfortunately it's the US version and won't play on my EU PS3.
It was a great game, well, series probably, but I only ever owned SF II. I wonder why SCE never made a sequel for the PS3?
And why isn't Gabriel Logan available to play in PS All-Stars Battle Royale???