3 Lessons Bethesda Needs To Learn From Starfield's Failure

Danish from eXputer: "After Starfield's disappointing reception, Bethesda needs to learn some important lessons to avoid the same mistakes."

[phoenixwing]

what they should learn: you need a new engine to make all the boundless worlds you proclaim to have and need to curate the content.

what they will actually learn: Just keep making elder scrolls and fallout because their fans are too complacent or dumb to realize there's too many loading screens (and they should demand better) and it's ok because they're on a grounded world so it's not as blaringly obvious as starfield that their engine is crap in this day and age.

tldr: engine is outdated but they won't fix it they'll just avoid space games

[The_Hooligan]

Also, they know that the modding community will fix issues and make the game better. I don't play on PC but I've seen some of the work these modders do, and it's pretty amazing. Not only for Bethesda games but for games in general.

[Cacabunga]

Stop overhyping meh looking games so much to begin with..

[Yi-Long]

Not sure if 'the engine' was the cause of the problem for why Starfield failed.

Seems to me that what Starfield had to offer just wasn't very interesting, in terms of locations, characters, story, and perhaps even core gameplay ...

If those are your main issues, then it doesn't really matter all that much which engine is running the show ...

Not saying they shouldn't upgrade/change their engine btw; Clearly they should, but even if they had used a brand new top-of-the-line modern-gen engine with all the bells & whistles, Starfield would still have its fair share of problems.

ES/Skyrim and Fallout both have interesting settings/locations to offer which are fun to explore and discover, plus there are clear stories that are told within that setting and characters you meet, etc.

In comparison, Starfield might offer 'more' in terms of size/locations, but is it actually interesting? Or is it just predictable, by-the-numbers, stale, unimaginitive western sci-fi stuff which we have already seen over and over again ... ?

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I think they were too ambitious, if they had reduced the scope of the game to a small solar system, (or multiple solar systems), they could have jammed more content into those limited play areas instead of having 100s upon 100s of dead planets with nothing to do on them. That would also give them more time to work on other aspects of the game (like bug fixing and sparse content), over a thousand planets sounds cool until you actually have to make them and put something interesting on most planets.

[Abear21]

Yup 100% this, their engine can barely handle a frigging ladder, that’s why there’s so many ramps everywhere in their games!

The day we see characters actually step on stairs or a rung on a ladder in a Bethesda game will be a cold day in hell.

[-Foxtrot]

Oh yeah. Shit. The ladder situation.

I completely forgot about that, I remember them talking about this in 2010

https://www.ign.com/article...

Even Morrowind didn't have them

22 years on and they still don't have ladders in their games, that's f******* insane man.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

Imagine making multiple games but having to find ways around making ladders because your engine can't handle them, limitations are one way to inspire creativity, don't think it helped them in this case though.

[Profchaos]

Yeah the game had a lot of physics and that was great but agree that it was far to bogged down with loading gates of they had pulled off the whole seemless traversal it would have been far better.

However for me the need to jump around menus constantly hurt the game far more than loading gates.
Looking at fallout the game design handled the rpg elements far better with the pipboy they made menus and inventory part of the lore which felt far better.

After 4 hours of gameplay and still having tutorials pop up it was just to much and it may have been because I just spent 100 hours playing Zelda games before jumping into starfield but a good rpg in my mind makes as much of the gameplay initiative and rewards discovery rather than telling you what to do every five minutes including my biggest pet peve guided tutorial menus I hate them the whole now click a on theis page spend the stat point here etc starfeild had far to many of them.

In short of the game systems are so over complicated that you need to interrupt the players game every few minutes you failed at game design

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I like how in BotW/TotK, they give you the basics, but leave you to work everything else out on your own, which leads to a lot of dumb experimentation on the player's part (I'm playing TotK now after finishing SS, lol). I would not be able to handle being blasted by tutorials in that game no matter how helpful.

[Extermin8or3_]

The engine needs updating because realistically loading screens in the next elder scrolls aren't acceptable. Maybe one short loading screen when like you leave a city or something but realistically in 2020's that shouldn't be needed. Assassin's creed has been able to do it without loading screens for years now, harry potter could do it, the Witcher does it so on and so forth. Hell no mans sky manages without loading screens.... Cmon.

[phoenixwing]

I agree. This gen has at least ushered in little to no loading. all Bethesda games share loading screens and are at odds with it.

[Futureshark]

Perhaps not rely on mod support to fix their games so much?
Under promise and over deliver, rather then the other way around.
Don't hype games with phrases like 'it just works'.

[bleedsoe9mm]

Starfield was fantastic keep doing what you do Bethesda

[Gamingsince1981]

Yeah people like you are the reason people go on "got latent" shows when they can't sing to save their life because people don't tell them the truth and they embarrass themselves

[Gamingsince1981]

@sufucage Yeah ok alt account 🙄

[Gaming4Life1981]

Yea starfield is great and it will only get better. I can't believe people are still trying to hate this game.

[Modpeel]

😬 awkward

[anast]

- Don't spend a ton of money on stupid live action trailers.

- Go back to what made Marrowind and New Vegas fun.

- Keep Todd from marketing their games, it makes them look incompetent. If he actually spent 25 years on Starfield, they don't have the ability to make a decent game.

- Get new "creative" direction.

- Get new writers.

- Fix the combat.

- Use new tech.

- Don't rely on AI.

[badz149]

They didn't make New Vegas

[anast]

They need to learn from it, since they have the IP.

[EazyC]

I honestly think the jig is up unless they seriously reevaluate what exactly they bring to the table in the RPG space.

I know it wasn't "their" game, but it would do them a world of good to have a long hard look at what Obsidian achieved with Fallout: New Vegas using their tools, and why that game is so beloved as a first-person RPG.

[purple101]

Just 3 lessons?

I’d say that’s being too kind

[Father__Merrin]

starfield would have been excellent if they ditched the space travel and kept one big open world instead

[-Foxtrot]

Don't know why people are disagreeing, the fact you can hop around to different maps is why the game feels so lacking and barren.

If they got to focus on one huge main map then all the energy would have went behind that instead.

[mkis007]

No they hould have quartered thr number of planets and expanded the interconnectivity of them. There is a huge disconnect between planets because of the lack of meaningful space flight.

Also build your engine to fit the game not the other way around

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I said in a previous comment that it should have been one solar system or a few of them, no need for over a thousand planets. This game suffered from the extremes of "open-world syndrome" where there was too much space with too little to do in it.

[RNTody]

How about the lesson that most of these publishers and developers haven't learned:

Quality > quantity
Substance > size
Hand crafted missions > procedurally generated quests

How is it that Arkham City, a game from 2011, or Middle Earth from 2014, understands better how to craft a living breathing world filled with substance than the OGs of world building?

[MrDead]

Should have been just a few systems with planets that had something to do on them and something to actually explore.
We got a handful of tiny towns that were meant to be hubs of civilisation, copy pasted locations, the most boring characters that Bethesda has ever created, travel in the game is just a loading screen or running in a straight line and space travel is more loading screens and spinning around a skybox with a 2d planet... the game is hundreds of hours of boring.

[jwillj2k4]

Relying on Mod support is a crazy business model..

Wait.. I thought Microsoft told Starfield was a massive hit?

[ChasterMies]

I think the big one is that if the tech don’t work, don’t put it in your game. I’m referring to the planets. What’s worse is that “Starfield” wasn’t the first game to try and fail at procedurally generated worlds. “Mass Effect Andromeda” was going to have procedurally generated worlds to explore like “No Man’s Sky”. The tech didn’t work back then and what we got were some barren desert planets. But at least “Mass Effect Andromeda” let you drive a vehicle.

[Einhander1972]

Only one lesson.

Don't let Phil and Microsoft rush your games out the door. *cough* Redfield...

[StormSnooper]

Don’t let MS do that whole thing where they act like the game is best thing to ever bless our eyes, and then show up with a mediocre game. Keep expectation grounded in reality of the game or people won’t believe you next time.

[ocelot07]

Should they not of learnt from Fallout 76?

[RhinoGamer88]

I am not sure who has under delivered more over the last five years...Todd or Phil. Both are now rich for mediocre results...results that would have gotten us fired from our gigs.

[Gunstar75]

Was Starfield a failure?

[romulus23]

Did it deliver on all the promises they made and was it the success it was hyped up to be?

[Abear21]

They obviously didn’t learn bc Elder Scrolls 6 is being teased and the game is probably about 25% finished if they are lucky.

Xbox will push it out before it’s ready but it’s okay bc it’s on Gamepass.

[Crows90]

Don't think they're able to learn. Releasing something like Starfield shows a lack of a lot of areas in game development

[zuky]

starfield was good tbh, theese guys from exputer are just on console war agains anything from microsoft. aka -xbox tax

[glenn1979]

for me the biggest problem was the facial animation, npc are retard, when you go in the ship and go in the space you have no control it break the immersion, those generated levels are garbage, graphics are hit an miss, and those freaking loading screen that what's kill me i mean c'mon its not xbox 360 era , the have a good foundation but there need to do something with the next SF2 , an dith that engine its time for a new engine maybe use Unreal or Cry engine or that star engine would be awesome,I just play the game like 5 hours max just cant do it no more

[PhillyDonJawn]

Wait starfield failed? This news to me

[got_dam]

I would be more on board with bethesda if they had a good team of writers. Their environmental story telling is ok, but their main narratives are subpar.

[Reaper22_]

Starfield wasn't a failure. This site is really bad with the click bait opinion made up stuff. It actually made microsoft a lot of money with GP subscriptions.

[SubtilizZer]

Lmao their games were never amazing to begin just a very strong cult following. Starfield was just more of the same Bethesda. Acting like it’s not, is just crazy.

[jznrpg]

They need to go back towards Morrowind and add onto that. Plus they need a new engine. That requires a lot of work and I just don’t see Bethesda wanting to do those things unfortunately

[nmbr1esq]

Number 1, unreal engine 5+
Number 2 no fn load screens
Number 3 LESS is more.
Number 4 Hire people who actually enjoy/understand video games. The best Developers are fans, i.e. maybe let go some of the worthless ones and hire some from the mod community who actually love gaming.
Number 5 Fire whoever green-lit the release in the state it was in. (Howard/Spencer we're looking at you).

[Knightofelemia]

Don't advertise an open world game a with invisible barriers in it.

[GhostScholar]

Despite would people want to say or think this game was anything but a failure. The narrative will change when the game goes to Sony.

[anast]

Nah, it didn't change for HiFiRush and it won't change for Starfield. Jank games are Jank games.

[GhostScholar]

You’re not even a good troll lol hi fi rush got 9-9.5 on PlayStation and Xbox. That game ran like butter and was anything but “jack”

[anast]

It got a 6, which is actually probably closer to the truth.

[repsahj]

We will need to wait 7 or more years to see if they actually learn from it.

[Armaggedon]

Here we go again…. Just stop guys. The game didnt fail, Bethesda didnt commit some heinous crime that they should learn from. Humanity, forever pointing the finger. I have an idea of who needs to learn, how about gamers learn to not invest in products that do not mesh with them, and then blame developers for failing to entertain them. There is a reason why there are thousands of titles to choose from. Figure it out please.

[gold_drake]

maybe release games that are not fundamentally broken and rely on fans to fix em for ya.

[Fonsecap]

I guess the only problem is the engine, it's limited for the scope they had for this game, I hope that eso 6 is not being developed on this engine.

[anast]

It probably is, just a modified version of it.

[Bronbron92]

Bethesda makes good games notorious for its bugs lol but I do think with the starfield a solid game but over hyped they definitely need a new engine and something new new not just a space Skyrim I’m sure the next elder scrolls and fallout will be great games but I do think they need a new engine for these games, but regardless people will buy the games they make