The Xbox One Bundle Barrage: Microsoft aren't desperate, it's just good business

Dealspwn: "The Xbox One has been crushing it this Christmas. Phil Spencer's plan was brilliantly simple -- release some great games, cut the price and the gamers will come -- and seems to be working like a charm. Retailers fought tooth and nail to offer the best bundles over Black Friday and beyond, while only today we posted about an insane Xbox One bundle deal with 6 AAA games. It's great to see a big company move so quickly and even better to see them moving in the right direction too.

And yet, according to plenty of folks out there in internet land, this is somehow a bad thing.

Microsoft are desperate. Microsoft are losing money. Microsoft have gone mad. Microsoft are pathetic.

No. Let's get some perspective here."

[FuzzyPixels]

I love what's going on right now. Retailers dropping bundle deal after bundle deal. It's freakin great for us consumers. Never been a better time to be looking at getting into new-gen!

[Ezz2013]

If dropping the price this much+Free games+50$ gift card is not very desperate move
Then what we should call it ?!

aside from this being very good deals for gamers
how is this a good business ?!
they pretty much were bleeding money this BF

While Sony didn't do as much and still sold over 800+k at BF
and let's not talk about world wide sales
which even after all that Ps4 still won Novamber with Worldwide sales

[beereal360]

You sir are a fool. Sony can't compare when it comes to money with Microsoft. This is a great plan sell units at a loss make money later. Cell phone companies do it year around how else can you buy a 600 dollar cellphone for a 150 dollars. Where did you go to school.

[BlackTar187]

beereel

Cell phones aren't really $600.

[darthv72]

There are different types of deals going on. you have the ones that MS 'officially' condones. Like the ones they sell in the MS store/online and the temp price drop.

Then there are the retailer deals which are at their discretion. Stores that are making their own bundles to sway a would be purchaser from one store or another.

the problem most have is differentiating between a MFG suggested deal and a retailer deal. Deals, overall, are great for consumers. no argument there. It's finding the right deal that can be tricky.

the gift card thing, yeah that is a retailer incentive. And if you consider it desperation then thats on the part of the retailer trying to keep people from buying at another retail competitor. Not another platform competitor.

To be clear, retailers do not pay what the MSRP is for a product. they pay considerably less and the markup is their profit. So some retailers are taking less of a profit by having a lower markup (thus the $329 for example) but they can also just bundle in other incentives like the gift card or more games than the next retailer.

[zeal0us]

I believe it was a business that MS needed to enact in order to push more X1 units. Which by the way isn't a bad thing. However I always thought the X1 SKU without the kinect should cost $349 instead of $399. Especially given the Kinect(for X1) cost $149.

[LeCreuset]

He seems to think that logical and desperate are mutually exclusive, even while himself describing the situation as desperate.

I'll agree with the logic of MS move all day long. I even agreed with the logic of the initial price drop in the Uk that had early adopters pissed. Good for fans. The best move to make, right now. Still, desperate.

To put into perspective how desperate the situation is, the gap still grew in Sony's favor. That's after all of the deals. Think about that and what the landscape would look like if not for these deals.

[kingbain90]

Why are people acting like there wasn't insane ps4 deals too? I seen $329 ps4 deals and $400 with 2 free games and gift cards deals as well.

[Testfire]

So much salt from people when it comes to MS. People didn't cry when 3DS sold at a loss to get back in the game why now? Oh that's right, because its evil MS.

[LeCreuset]

@beereal360

Such a great plan it makes you wonder why they waited until getting stomped in sales to do it. They have so much money to blow it makes you wonder why they didn't just take the hit on the price drop, earlier in the year, instead of de-bundling a piece of tech they had already invested heavily in and were banking on to take over the living room.

[Ezz2013]

@beereal360

Man my comment hit you hard as it seems
who said any thing about Sony having more money than Microsoft ?!
Also, if that was their plan all along
why they didn't do it in the first place ?!

Also, So wait
how will they get all the money they lost on dropping the price and those gift cards and free games
when the price is only "Temporary" ?!

which means they know they are losing great deal of money in Nov and Dec
and they can't keep the console at this price with free gamesad 50$ gift card any longer than Dec
It's a desperate move and worked well in US/UK ...nothing more

also your Insults comes only from the one's with weak arguments like your's

[Godmars290]

@beereal360:
The problem is that while MS is trying to situate their console ahead of the competition in order to be the most preferred for games, Its been established that their competition has the most games coming to their system. That a majority of games coming out will be playable on both, while either performing better or having more content on the other system.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

Its simply Microsoft playing a card they know Sony has no answer to, the money card. Microsoft can afford to take the losses in order to gain market share, Sony cannot afford to reduce the price of ps4 in response. Sony admitted at launch if they went lower than $400 it would kill them.

[GameSpawn]

beereal360
"You sir are a fool. Sony can't compare when it comes to money with Microsoft. This is a great plan sell units at a loss make money later. Cell phone companies do it year around how else can you buy a 600 dollar cellphone for a 150 dollars. Where did you go to school. "

Just want to nip this fallacy in the bud. Cell phones ARE sold at $600. Cellular providers subsidize the up front cost and make the money back slowly on your bill. Try buying a phone (a new model for the year) without a 2 year contract -- you MUST pay the full cost of the phone up front; the 2 year contract allows you to "finance" the phone over the contract period.

Also, Microsoft's real money comes from their Windows and Office divisions because software's primary cost is in development - distribution, especially digital, is almost nil in comparison allowing for INSANE profit margins. The Xbox division has ALWAYS cost their parent money. Every time the Xbox division has reached the "black" they do something stupid to cost them money taking them back into the "red" (the RROD incident of the 360 generation obliterated whatever revenue the 360 was starting to generate -- 1 step forward, 2 steps back).

Remember as Balmer was leaving the investors were already calling to have the Xbox division cut. Nadella actually saved that from happening by reassigning the division into another Microsoft division (devices?) and giving them one more chance. The Xbox division is on thin ice with investors of the parent Microsoft.

[BabyObama]

It's a good deal for someone that wants it
That's good business if you ask me

[Godz Kastro]

@Ezzz,

Let the multi billion dollar companies work out the math. You just sit back and enjoy the games... Mmmm k

[PlayableGamez]

It's better for Microsoft to cut the price to boost sales, than to just let the Xbox One's pile up. If you have a product and it's not selling or it's not meeting your criteria, what would any normal business man would do? They will cut the price of their product.
It's either Microsoft choose to be stupid and prideful by not cutting the price and not appeal to more consumers or they will make a smart move or in your words "desperate" move by simply cutting the price to boost sales.

[BlissSeeker]

"and let's not talk about world wide sales"
- goes onto speaking about worldwide sales

[AngelicIceDiamond]

@EZ That's great maybe after said all that you can sleep good at night.

Anyway its not desperation its simply good business. I guess MS was "desperate" all last gen around Christmas outselling PS3 at every holiday and doing the same deals like they did with X1.

MS had this planned probably as early as last January and realized after getting outsold every month they had to plan this a earlier than expected.

Like I said MS is known for doing these types of deals every holiday. Its simply how they do buissness.

[Kingoftherodeo]

Apple must be desperate to sell their products too man. I got a great deal on new ipad and with a gift card

[thewhiteelephant]

The only thing gamers need to worry about Is whether they are getting a good deal. Leave the financials and the perceived 'desperation' to Microsoft

[Why o why]

Many good business decisions are made out of desperation. Ms weren't happy with the sales no matter how 'better than the 360' the apologists professed. Get real. It's great for newer customers, not so great for the early adopters but thats the risk of being quick to buy. I'm not implying your experience wasn't worthy, just that the value of buying later more often than not greater. In regards to the X1, camera drop, price drops, official or not, stupid value bundles. . . C'mon now. If sh×t was sweet, there would of been none of that

[GameNameFame]

So much damage control by Xbox fanboys.

LOL for real? Are you saying MS WANTED to give away their consoles at loss?

Yes, software makes money, too. But now you have to recoup that cash for years before you actually see profit on that console sold.

If MS love doing this as you fanboys say, why is this so limited?

Why stop in january. It is so profitable, they should keep doing it. Lol so why stop? Only explanation is desperation.

And MS isnt the only one desperate. their fans are desperate as well to try to defend this.

[SonofGod]

Wrong.

Dropping the price will benefit them in the future. MS's goal is to get as many XOs to as many people's houses as possible, not earning profit from the sale of the console itself. When MS have the consoles in people's homes then they can start earning the real money.

I thought this was already obvious. Why you have so many bubbles is beyond me... Oh wait it's because it's N4G that's why.

[freshslicepizza]

consumers buy with their wallets, whats the problem again?

oh i see, some are concerned about how others spend their money or are concerned for microsoft's bottom dollar. yes, its coming to me now.

[badz149]

@beereal360

Console business can't be compared to smartphone business. Console maker makes money mostly off software sales but smartphones are sold at bigger profit margin from the beginning. You pay $150 for a $600 phone because your carrier pays for the phone cost and they get their money back several fold by binding you in their ridiculos contract. Know the difference.

[ALLWRONG]

Translation: It's desperate only to Sony fans because they clearly can't accept the loss. Only going to get worse if MS takes December. Sony fans are contributing to the worldwide stockpile of salt.

[miyamoto]

Man the ignorance of the xbotic damage controllers here on N4G is relentless.
The problem is their damage control attempts cause even further damage like everytime Xbox PR dept open its mouth. LoL!

I for one has never underestimated the M$ empire's monstrous pile of cash.

But these reputation managers never asked M$ why with all their billions did they not make a more powerful console than the PS4 from the beginning instead of using that "MS has tons of cash to burn indefinitely" after the Xbox One is being slaughtered at retail?

Because they lots of cash but have no brains?
*smh *smh

Amazing ignorance on the side of MS & xboxers!

"Xbox One is Kinect. Kinect is Xbox One"
"People will see its all about value of Xbox One"

The bundled price drop is only a part of the whole desperation move since the rmoval of Xbox One's DRM policies and debundling of Kinect.

No other way to spin this.
MS has made so many mistakes and compromises on the platform's 900p hardware.
They should have made sure and nailed the 1080p 60fps gaming first and the TV TV TV thing later. But no they compromised on XB1's gaming capability.

If MS is not desperate, then they should still be selling the launch XB1 as it is.

[freshslicepizza]

"If MS is not desperate, then they should still be selling the launch XB1 as it is."

very logical. if a product is not selling very well according to you the answer is to just keep selling it the way it is and not try and add extra value like free games or drop the price. makes perfect sense. i guess that's why the ps3 stayed at $600.

[joab777]

It's both, desperate and working.

[Blues Cowboy]

Heh, I suppose it could be both. The end justifies the motive and means!

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Unless Microsoft begins to bolster it's library with some games it's not going to matter how many consoles they sell. The Xbox One platform is not going to see any lasting, long term success unless it begins to get more first and second party support. At least they tried with Sunset Overdrive this year. They haven't done anything else and won't have anything else in terms of new IPs until Quantum Break and Scalebound are released.

[darthv72]

1st and 2nd party support is important but it isnt the life blood of a platform. the 3rd parties make up the lions share of a platforms success.

Look at the original PS1 for a refresher. Very few 1st/2nd party games (mainly because sony had not yet acquired the studios) and it went on to sell over 100+ million thanks to the huge amount of 3rd party games.

Same thing with the PS2. And you can look at any successful platform of any previous generation and see that trend has been the main factor in that success.

No offense but if you want to be taken seriously as a platform you NEED the support of the 3rd parties more so than anything else.

It takes 2 things to be successful. A low point of entry on the consumer (price) and a high selection of titles to play. The amount of support takes time to build but it can get there with patience and the right deals that benefit those 3rd party developers/publishers.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

@darthv72

But you do understand that when consumers try to choose which console to buy they are looking through the different games each console has and they certainly aren't going to choose a console to buy based on 3rd party games that are on both platforms. Wouldn't you agree?

[darthv72]

the problem with your thought process is that you assume that consumers are smart people who do their homework. some are but most are not.

It is price that gets their attention. unless they have a well informed child that specifically requests a certain system...most parents will buy whatever is cheap with a good selection of games.

There is a higher probability of finding something appealing in a stack of 50+ 3rd party games than a stack of 15 1st/2nd party ones.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

@darthv72

"the problem with your thought process is that you assume that consumers are smart people who do their homework. some are but most are not."

So you're saying that consumers aren't looking at the difference between each console's library of games? Now you're reaching...

"It is price that gets their attention. unless they have a well informed child that specifically requests a certain system...most parents will buy whatever is cheap with a good selection of games."

While price is a factor, it isn't the only factor, because if that was indeed the case, the Xbox One would have outsold Sony 3 to 1, it didn't. The margin was probably closer to 1.5 to 1.

As for your claim that parents are buying these systems, understand that most gamers, most people who are using these systems are ADULTS 18 to 55, completely outnumbering children who play video games on consoles.

Contrary to what you believe, consumers are not as stupid as you think. They are looking through the libraries offered by each console and they really aren't factoring in Multiplatform games. If what you believe is true about consumers being more concerned about price and they aren't paying attention to the library of games offered on each console, why isn't the Wii U doing much better? It's cheaper than both Xbox One and PS4, yet it's selling less than both.

1st and 2nd party support is a must for the long term success of a console. Look at the Xbox 360. After first party support dropped off, sales began to slow and the PS3 began to outsell it. Your price point is relevant, but trying to dismiss the level of development support that a console has as a valid point is just being ridiculous.

[Blues Cowboy]

@FuzzyPixels: Agreed, though I'd actually like to see Nintendo getting more proactive on the bundle front. Where was the official Smash Wii U bundle with a set of Amiibos and carry case? You'll find the occasional rather silly bundle on the store, but they really ought to be making the most of what is actually the strongest new-gen games library.

[avengers1978]

I'm not sure that XB1 will continue to bundle in games, but I am certain that the temporary 349 price will become the permanent price. I think a lot of people feel this should be the price of a kinectless XB1, and overall I believe this will help them stay more competitive with the PS4.

[DanielGearSolid]

Sorry but, its desperation...

It's good business as well, but... its desperation.

And hey, it's working.

I dont know its working financially, but its working in terms of unit sales

[n4rc]

I don't understand how desperation and good business go together..

By not including kinect, they can afford to sell for cheaper.. And they have a bunch of great games out.. Giving someone a couple titles in exchange for years of xbl and game sales is not the straight up loss some think it is..

These companies think long term..

[DanielGearSolid]

In this case, i'd say they go together in terms of improved marketshare

[MasterCornholio]

The point is if Microsoft stuck to their original plans and had the same amount of success as the PS4 or more they wouldn't even drop kinect, the price and offer a ton of games in a bundle.

They are doing this because they know that they can't let Sony vastly outsell them during the holidays because if they did the Xbox brand would be in jeopardy. That's how business works.

[cell989]

lets not forget all the changes the xbox team had to do all this year, thats definitely desperation. Sure its working, theyre practically giving the darn things for free, its desperation alright.

The only ones winning from Sony stomping on MS, is the xbox supporters. Because now theyre getting exceptional deals on their xbox live gold memberships, and if they only had a 360 now its the time to migrate to xbone if that still works for them. Had Sony not taken back the crown, you can bet the xbone would be a totally different beast with DRM and so on

[L0YD]

They're desperate.

[NegativeCreep427]

Microsoft isn't desperate, they just love gamers. /s

Talk about being in the spin-zone, huh?

[dale1]

small independents like us are buying them up in there hundreds to sell. we can,t buy them for the prices they have the x1 bundles at the moment.i hope the ms does increase the prices up if not there rep is in for some stick after the hols

[Mechanism]

Any die hard MS fan, or spotty brat 'journalist' will say it's 'good business'.

Anyone with a business mind will see this screams out desperation.

@DJustinUNCHAIND

Oh really? Please tell me another company that has had such excessive price drops, dropped the core of it's original selling point (Kinect) and given away multiple games, just to compete with a console that is selling almost 2:1 globally without having to bat an eyelid?

You part of the real world? Pfft.

@narc

No, my business mind tells me that Just because the company on a whole is doing great, doesn't mean the XBox division have bottomless pockets.. Their desperation is in staying relevant with the PS4 and not falling even further down the ladder for the future, not about their losses at this current point.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

The rest of the real world would see this the opposite way.

[DeadManMMX]

It's definitely good business they'll make it up in a few games. Just like all Sony needed to make PS4 profitable in the beginning was for us to buy one game. Also see the 3DS when it came out at 299.00 with hardly any games I couldn't pay people to buy it. Within 2 months they dropped the price to 249.99 and came out with Mario 3D Land and its been selling like hotcakes since. I remember calling PS Plus desperate when it came out. They didn't like the way their attach rates were looking and came up with a good plan to bring people in. Lets face it xbox 360 exclusives far outsold PS3 ones. A lot of that might have been so few people tried those games out being as they were predominately single player. Plus put those games in the hands of customers and helped them build their franchises and their value. What I don't get is all of the hate for EVERYTHING Xbox. Why I can go into a comments section and find 20 or 30 to 1 negative comments going anti Xbox to 1 or 2 loud mouthy trolls going anti PlayStation. I really wish someone would do an independent study on these things. So we could see some statistics. I think it would be hilarious.

[IRetrouk]

@ dead man

What xbox games far outsold ps ones? Halo sold roughly what gt did, uncharted sold as much as gears.... then you have the fact that the ps had wayyy more exclusives....i just dont get where you are coming from with that statment....everything else i mostly agreed with though.

[n4rc]

Yeah OK....

Does your business mind tell you a company that has multiple divisions generating billions a year (including the hardware division you think is losing money) is not desperate?

Earnings reports will tell you a lot more then the bs you read on the internet

[Blues Cowboy]

@Mechanism: to me, basic business suggests that console manufacturers make most of their money from services and software. Putting the console into as many homes as possible while your competitor is struggling on the exclusives front makes a lot of sense.

However, your point RE "Just because the company on a whole is doing great, doesn't mean the XBox division have bottomless pockets" is well made. No company will indefinitely support a division that's costing them money.

[mkis007]

Problem is they are also giving away the software.

[Exies7]

Inc MS hate.

[Pyro2000x]

The PS4 beat the XB1 in the USA 10 months straight. M$ had to cut the price of the XB1 $170, it was $500 this January but this November you could buy it as low as $330 while the PS4 stayed $400 since launch.

[GamerGT]

At this rate MS will have a $99 console by Holiday 2017. Which makes me wonder if MS plans to drop the Xbox One or at the least develop a new piece of hardware before half the lifespan the 360 had. The charts I've seen is hardware did well for the Xbox One this past month but software was dominate on both of Sony's consoles. Which makes me wonder if people did adopt it for the media and TV and NFL driven incentives and casual gaming (the annual rotation of mindless garbage) over a hardcore gaming platform. To me it doesn't make sense this generation. If MS could put what little exclusives they have all on PC (Microsoft Windows 10) keep the controller option and just save themselves the hardware cost of another Xbox piece of hardware. Perhaps this is where eventually cloud gaming could take over any. Sorry. End rant.

[Notramagama]

*$70. Kinect was a bundled Item. They removed the item... hows that part of a price cut?

But you pro pic says it all...

[snookiegamer]

Aw who cares! ...So long as Gamers are getting good deal that's all that counts!

Whole lotta hoo-ha for nuthin' ;/

[Blues Cowboy]

Yep. The only people who win in a price war are consumers, and it's bloody lovely to be on the winning side after taking so much BS from all comers.

[Fro_xoxo]

Only the ignorant/fanboys will perceive competitive moves as desperate. .

Whilst gamers continue to be the beneficiaries.

[Ristul]

I would seriously doubt the value of such margin destruction in return for market position if it weren’t for one thing. Microsoft is known for creating monopoly and then, when competition is zero, implement abusive practices. I guess it's easy to forget the DRM debacle, not too long ago.

[mhunterjr]

Who cares if they are desperate? Consumers are getting a good console with a ton of good games for a good price?

Why the need to attach a word with a negative connotation to the precedings?

[LeCreuset]

Why the need to play word police? The situation is what it is. I get where you're coming from. When I grabbed a BF deal on my Vita, a few years ago, I didn't hesitate because Sony was doing it out of desperation. I also didn't get upset or whine in an article because someone called the situation what it was.

Your "who cares" is being directed to the wrong people. Why does the writer care that people are describing the situation as desperate, especially considering he does so himself? It's not exactly an out-of-bounds observation. What's the point of the article? Are we going to police how people describe the situation?

[mhunterjr]

How am I misdirecting the question? It extends to the writer as much as it goes to those who declare the situation desperate...

Why should we, as consumers attach a negative sentiment to Microsoft is willing to lose money to ship consoles?

Shouldn't we just be focusing on the fact that there are amazing deals available?

[brainfart]

Some folks get a joy out of spilling bs from the tip of there fingers, desperation would be buy an xbox one get one for free and a helluva deal my friend:-) Edit: You know whos disagreeing the same folks I was typing about!!!

[sin7279]

Huge desperate!

[1Victor]

Lol it isn't desperation but it doesn't scream confidence at the top of the lungs.

[Paprika]

All this discussion over a great bundle Ffs lol.

Sony, end it! Ps4 + two controllers + Infamous second/first + Killzone + Tlou + one multi plat from a selected range, farcry 3 or dragon age etc

[Kingdomcome247]

We talk about sales here constantly along with how important install base size is in garnering developer support for the platform. Microsoft had a huge hole to dig themselves out of, and for everyone calling it bad business, what's your solution then? Everyone said they should've been cheaper from the start, but when they do drop the price, and offer great incentives to try to gain momentum...what do you know, it's bad business. Sony cut price, changed SKUS, bundled movies, etc... all in the name of getting back in the race last gen, and it worked. So why are people calling this a bad move? (Rhetorical question. I know why) Is it ideal? No. As others have stated including the writer, software sales along with XBL memberships are where the majority of revenue is to be found. Desperate or not, I'm sure it was still a measured and scrutinized decision in house. There isn't a single choice Microsoft could've made that would've helped them evade some of you saying they messed up. It's without fail a lose lose situation with a lot of you guys. They're working on building more first party studies, bringing brand new ips (4 off the top of my head that we already know about), and they albeit by necessity, have turned the Xbox One into an extremely flexible, community focused platform with great new channels for feedback which aren't just for show, but rather they have already produced quick community driven improvements to the platform. I love all platforms, but some of you guys are maddening. You're like little children holding a grudge, nitpicking any little thing and never acknowledging any improvements.

[Blues Cowboy]

Well said. Making the best of a bad situation by playing to good games and great value should be applauded, even if it's just to remind Sony that they have to deliver this year on the exclusives front. Which they will of course, but competition is healthy.

[LeCreuset]

"Microsoft had a huge hole to dig themselves out of, and for everyone calling it bad business, what's your solution then?"

I think it's a good solution, at this point. It's not optimal. It's taking a bigger risk upfront to jump-start the base and hope to make up for it on the back end, but it makes sense for where they're at. It's also desperate, which is what the article is talking about.

[Mikeyy]

This article reeks of desperation.

[etowntwo]

Sony is doing the same thing...
Bundles, gift cards. I've seen them everywhere... So many Sony bundle deals, I've lost count. Is that desperation too?

The only thing Sony hasn't done is drop the price, but MS was able to drop the price by omitting Kinect. (finally)

[gdguide]

Sony have been at $400 the whole time with the PS4.

Microsoft went to $400 (without Kinect as you said), dropped to $350, still didn't sell enough. Had to drop it to $330 and a $50 gift card to finally outsell the PS$ one month. That's ignoring the games. At the very least, you can view it that Microsoft needed a $70 price drop plus a $50 gift card to outsell the PS4 one month.

[marlinfan10]

@gd

And? Sony has had all the momentum so far, it takes more than just a price drop to gain that back and that's exactly what theyre doing. No right minded person would expect just a price drop to solve everytning after the rocky first year MS had. Didn't sony have cut the ps3 price $200 last gen?for some reason I dont think the same people calling MS desperate said the same thing about sony last gen.

[IRetrouk]

The ps3 outsold the 360 worldwide from the moment the ps3 released, i think the only year the 360 sold more workdwide was 09 or 10, sooooo yeah.......

[BlackTar187]

Marlinfan,

This site was all on the PS3 is desperate it's dying no games FRONT of this last gen. So maybe the same people aren't saying it that were then but it was a much bigger anti PS community back then.

[marlinfan10]

@iretrouk

you might want to check your history, ps3 started off selling terribly. it didnt meet any expectations in the beginning until the price cuts started hitting.

just checked some old articles.

http://www.videogamer.com/n...

http://www.pcworld.com/arti...

http://www.joystiq.com/2007...

they missed their sales goal by 25%

another funny thing i found, a little off topic, but it says in one of the articles that sony would only quote units shipped and not sold, another thing that MS is killed for on here. ill make sure i remember this for the next time something like that comes up.

[IRetrouk]

Look at the numbers again, i didnt say they met targets or not what i said was year on year, from both consoles have been available, the ps3 outsold the 360 worldwide apart from 09 or 10. Both companies used shipped untill one decided to report sold through. The price cuts happened because it needed to be cheaper for sales to meet sonys expectations.

[gdguide]

Sony is playing it like Apple right now. A premium product selling great doesn't need to sell at a loss. They could easily have sold e muven more ch selling at $330 -$50 gift card.

[crashbash]

Sony wished they were Apple lol. Apple tend to make a lot of money out of ALL of their products.

[Max-Zorin]

Sony got nothing on Apple. Apple is garbage at making phone chargers that last long, yet their products don't flop. Sony can't do that.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

Were such a large number of people calling it desperate when Sony reduced the price of the ps3 early in its life by removing features that people actually wanted?

[Blues Cowboy]

Not to mention copying the achievement system etc. Adapting is never a bad thing - at least, so long as you do it in a way that benefits gamers as a result (even if it isn't the primary goal).

[IRetrouk]

They made the console cheaper by getting rid of that stuff, they gave plenty of warning about the changes that would be made.... if anyone had of wanted all those features they had time to buy the first model of the ps3 at the reduced price of the first slim. Not that it was an excuse for them to do it but they were making like a 200 dollar loss on each console.

[BlackTar187]

Hey Bravo you've been here long enough to know the answer to your question and it's a resounding YES they were here and i'd argue 10x louder then this gen is to MS

[nitus10]

The only features that were removed on the PS3 were PS2 backwards compatibility, Other OS, Memory card readers and reducing the four USB slots to two. In addition they changed the touch buttons to physical buttons.

With the exception of PS2 backwards compatibility what other features were absolutely essential to most people?

Before you say anything all PS3's can still play PS1 games. As for the "Other OS" lets be realistic here how many people used or even contemplated using this when there are much better devices available? Card reader removal - don't make me laugh I used them once on my FAT PS3 and never bothered again.

[Illusive_Man]

Sony fans seem to get really heated and upset about all these great bundles. It's really sad. I almost get the sense that some of you feel threatened.

It's not that serious.

[LeCreuset]

I think most Sony fans just get upset when people like yourself try to police what they say, telling them not to call a spade a spade, solely to protect the image of a multi-billion dollar company.

While I think it's good business, I also think it's desperate, so I read the article to see why it says it isn't. Turns out the article even describes Xbox's situation as "desperate," but for some reason you can't apply that label to these price cuts. We're supposed to treat it as the pink elephant in the room. Shh! It doesn't really make any argument about why the situation isn't desperate. It just takes issue with calling it desperate. So, yeah, that makes me pause and question why aren't we supposed to call it desperate? If you or anyone else wants to play reputation manager for MS, have at it, but don't hold the rest of us to that standard.

[headblackman]

this title is what smart people have been saying all along. it's it's just common sense. plus it's what the people have been asking for. free games and a cheaper price on the system. anyone saying anything different is uuuhhhhh...... well you know!

next!!!

[BlackTar187]

"this title is what smart people have been saying all along. it's it's just common sense. "

ROFL that's solid comedy right DUR

[marlinfan10]

We hear how desperate MS is now but when their gaming division post another profit in the hundreds of millions this quarter I guarantee the trolls wont be here saying this same stuff.

[tay8701]

lmfao, what are you talking about. xbox division has never made them a profit, let alone 100's of millions in a quarter. they have been in the business for a decade and have lost BILLIONS.

http://www.forbes.com/sites...

[cell989]

its funny how the xbox supporters think the division has unlimited amounts of money because its MS. Well heres a reality check, MS didnt get rich by loosing money. The xbox division is on thin ice and this is their last chance to make xbone profitable or there might not be another xbox. The parent company can simply shut it down so they can stop loosing money and voila. Its simple business tactics no fairytales of MS pawns Sony cause they have money.

[marlinfan10]

why don't both of you do a little research and check out microsofts quarterly earnings in the division that handles xbox. you might be surprised.

[bneals]

This is the first article that "gets it". These companies don't usually profit from hardware - they profit from game licenses and services. MS losses all of that is they can't get you onto their next gen ecosystem. Consoles are like razors. Get them to buy a razor system cheap and then punish them with replacement blades that only work for that razor system. Microsoft made the beat decision they could.

[nitus10]

If you consider that consoles are like razors and by selling the console at a loss you eventually make a profit by selling games and add-ons. However this type of strategy can be a double edged sword.

The above is fine for the razor analogy however normally you find you only get two razor blades so you very quickly have to purchase more. What Microsoft is doing with their bundles is give out allot more games (I have seen up to seven) which would keep the average gamer happy for many months or over a year.

You could say that eventually those buyers will purchase more games however you also have to look at why the XB1 plus incentives were purchased in the first place and in the majority of cases it was the price so your razor analogy holds up.

Eventually those same buyers may start to look at purchasing new games however unlike razor replacements there is a second hand market for games and those people who originally purchased the deal now expect cheaper prices and either don't mind waiting for a price drop or just purchase a second hand game and a second hand game plays just as well as a brand new game. You don't see a second hand razor blade market so your analogy breaks down.

Note: This was one of the reasons why Microsoft wanted to kill the second hand gaming market since they don't make any profit on used games. I am also fairly sure Sony and even Nintendo would like to see this market killed but in Sony's case they realised that this was not a good market strategy.

[testerg35]

Of course when there's cheap PS4 bundles, its called a "great deal".

[nitus10]

Personally a great deal is when you can get the console you want in addition to the games you want to play now and in the future. Just buying something because it is cheaper may not be the best thing to do. But then again it's your money and you do have the choice.

[vega275]

Im sure MS will start worrying when they have to sell one if their building to boost profits. Until then why should anyone be concern unless they own stock in MS

[lemoncake]

Console manufacturers make most of their money from their fees placed on top of games and now live/psn subscriptions so its a good deal for microsoft, each console sold brings back 5-7 years of future profit.

[Dread]

one question for all those desperation theorists.

Was it desperation from sony when they reduced the price of the playstation 3 and took away some of its features?

[kenwonobi]

Yes. It worked too.

[DigitalRaptor]

Yes. Yes it was.

Instead of being insecure about people calling a spade a spade, why not just accept reality? There is no theory. Desperate decisions were made, and have been made for several months now. Do you think Microsoft execs are just sat there saying "remove Kinect" because they love gamers? Do you think they wanted to cut something they've invested billions into? Do you think they made these deals because they love gamers and feel like giving away things?

They NEEDED a holiday win, to keep the perception going that they at the very least, could win what they are known for. The holidays. They desperately needed it to boost confidence in their console from both investors, gamers and consumers. It worked for MS, and it worked for Sony.

[kurruptor]

If it was good business, why didn't they do it from the start? Because they were getting crushed worldwide 2 to 1 and even losing in their home territory.

Yes, it was 100% desperation. Don't try to spin it.

[fanboysmackdown]

Only hypocrites see this as a bad thing and wouldn't you know it, 99% are Sony fanboys. Shoe on the other foot, as was the case with the outrageously price $600 PS3 Sony kids just conveniently forget that fact. How is what MS is doing bad in any way shape or form bad for gamers? It's awesome and it forces Sony to cut costs too. MS has so much cash this does nothing but put more consoles into homes and promotes future sales of games. Sony hypocrites can bite it.

[quenomamen]

You mean $600 for the PS3 when a stand alone Bluray player went for $500 and up that PS3 ?

[kenwonobi]

Smells like desperation to me. They are falling so far behind that they had to salvage something. It is working to an extent. Maybe not globally yet? It is working in the one area they are strong in which is the United States. They should continue doing this. Nobody loves a fire sale like Americans who want to save money during Christmas. Thats what it is. A fire sale of stock they had built up and were not moving as fast as the had hoped.

[quenomamen]

You can do good business and still reek of desperation don't kid yourself, and what about the whole Kinect being mandatory one minute then an option the next.

[Silly gameAr]

Oh Dealspwn taking up for MS. How nice of you guys.

[ScaryMonkey]

Trying to figure out who's more desperate at this point, Microsoft, or the guy who wrote this article, LOL.

[Primal]

But with these bundles and price cuts it should've obliterated the PS4. Everybody's mentioning USA and UK for ONE month, it did not however win WW sales, much to my surprise. This doesn't seem quite desperate but it's a panicky move by MS, they merely delayed Sony's inevitable 50% market share.

But I think that MS made the right choice as competition is great for us consumers. And now they have bigger install base which leads to more software sales.

[tay8701]

marlinfan10, how is a division that is still in the red several billion dollars considered profitable? answer me that question. why would investors be calling for microsoft to dump xbox division if it truly made hundreds of millions a dollars a quarter? lol

http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/...