PlanetSide 2 Dev On PS4: "Our Real Bottlenecks Are On CPU Side;" Aiming For 60 FPS On PS4

GearNuke: "If the recently released games like Grand Theft Auto V and Assassin’s Creed Unity are any indication, the PS4 CPU is relatively less powerful compared to the GPU. Matt Higby confirms this and talks about the issues they faced with PlanetSide 2 on the PlayStation 4."

[BigBosss]

You can do this, I believe in you guys!

[guitarded77]

Yes please. What's with all the disagrees? Who doesn't want them to try for 60fps?

[yarbie1000]

Would be great if they can pull both off - but

I'd rather have 60FPS and lower resolution if there has to be a trade-off.

[TheStrokes]

Illogical haters.

[decrypt]

@yarbie1000

Its a CPU limitation, lowering resolution wont help anything. Since resolution strains the GPU not CPU.

[guitarded77]

@ decrypt

Yes, but the GPU can do work of the CPU, in which allowing more GPU for speed while lessening the graphics.

[Anonagrog]

"Yes, but the GPU can do work of the CPU, in which allowing more GPU for speed while lessening the graphics."

Not all work is suited to gpgpu parallelism though. Unless we have a problem that's highly scalable with considered data accesses and control flow, gpgpu offloading isn't a good call. There's still a lot of code in game engines that just isn't suitable for gpgpu as we have it today.

[Ju]

"Yes, but the GPU can do work of the CPU, in which allowing more GPU for speed while lessening the graphics."

Also not true. For CPU-IO heavy operations, bandwidth will impact GPU performance, which is directly related to resolution because a higher resolution requires more GPU bandwidth. CPU-calculus, however, won't.

However, if that's the case, you would wonder why that code is running on the CPU in the first place: This means it moves a lot of data, where the GPU would probably be the better device to run those calculations anyway.

But since the PS4 is a shared architecture, higher CPU memory bandwidth actually cuts into GPU bandwidth (this is relevant above 20GB/s IO, though). However, keeping data in cpu cache would not have an impact at all (preferred anyway).

http://cdn2.wccftech.com/wp...

[agame914]

Xbox fans

[UltimateMaster]

60fps is great, but 50fps and up is also great.
If they can't do 1080p 60fps, which they should, but if they can't then have an option 900p/60fps or unlocked60fps/1080p.

[darthv72]

So does this imply that the xb1 has a better balance of cpu power to gpu power to ram efficiency?

Genuine question. ..not trolling.

[Ju]

It's balanced. If you accept the threshold that is sub-1080p. As soon as you try to push bandwidth to that limit, that all falters. So, I guess it depends how you (and the marketing department) looks at it.

[JsonHenry]

I'm hoping they can pull it off too.

[sensor21]

You guys dont get it do you. You have the pretty dumb chick in a console. CPU cant control objects on screen same issue with AC. Game looks great that superior GPU is hindered by the cpu microsoft will have smarter games who disagrees ?

[unkn0wn]

I absolutely refuse to believe people like you actually exist in the world.

You sound like a corny facebook post. The way you pose your "argument" is so confounding it numbs my brain, literally.

I had to read your mess three times over to actualize your point. I can't say it enough, the way you talk makes my brain feel like its going to explode. Take a serious look at yourself, and please try and turn yourself around.

[joab777]

I don't understand why in like 2 yrs, release a slim, but also release a new ps4 with a better cpu for $400 and let ppl decide.

Then companies can offer updates for ppl. There will still need to be a minimum requirement for games to meet, but for those who want to, like PC gamers who can use higher settings, so could console users.

Consoles will eventually have to do this to keep up. They are already behind and just started. I know we are early but look how many broken games there are and I bet alot of it has to do with the reasonable expectations to both push what games offer while also being 1080/60.

[PersonMan]

A lot of the broken games have to do with the developers, not the console.

Also, 30fps on DRIVECLUB doesn't bother me. There's no controller response issues and it looks and feels very smooth.

It's possible to have a 30fps game with no input lag.

[blackout]

Will it ever release. PS4 fans have been waiting forever. Another year for a ported game. OK

[DarkLordMalik]

A beta version is coming soon. Expect a date at the upcoming PSX.

[Master-H]

For a ported *free game. Entitled much?

It's obvious by your comments that you don't even own a PS4, so why worry about this ? go play it on PC, or go back to trying to find a match on Halo again..

[GodGinrai]

"go play it on PC, or go back to trying to find a match on Halo again.."

He never mentioned halo...so why are you? I play this on PC, and would still like to see a PS version, this side of this year. Hopefully it has cross platform play too. Im going to boost my K/D by feasting on PS4 noobs. Dont judge me..most PC gamers are probably thinking the same thing.

[NuggetsOfGod]

Go play halo or pc??

U sound like u only have ps4 ..

That doesn't make a winner at all lol

Chill out.. maybe he just wants the 2 year old game already?

Why would he play a completely different game if he wants ps2?

@God
Yeah I can use a controller.. But k/m is king.. no aim assisted is liberating. Low aim assist in halo 5 will hopefully influence other devs

Why would he or she build a pc just to play one game?

Ur crazy and over offended imo..

Seriously drop the controller and go take ur hampster for a walk.

[BlackTar187]

@nuggets

where does he say he wants this game?

As far as i can tell he's just trolling the article.

Lol at the 2yr old game. Even you're trolling

[pompous]

Clearly you can do a better job. These devs have been extremely transparent with everything and actually came out a said they had more trouble porting it to a multi-core setup than they thought it would be. The pc version wasn't setup for mutlithreading or multiple cores.

[DigitalRaptor]

Dude. Suck on some lemons and face up to the fact that you'll be waiting from now, until at least 6-8 months into 2015 for any AAA exclusive games for your Xbone.

If you're going to try and troll on a massive, ambitious, free-to-play MMOFPS that eats Titanfall alive, then at least analyse your console of choice's own shortcomings in the same department.

[Ging_Freecs]

Do you have any proof that the xbox one will not have AAA exclusives until 6-8 months in 2015? If you do not then stop talking nonsense.

[zidane1341]

your a idiot. there are plenty of AAA games coming out for xbox one. Where were your exclusives for holiday season, hmmm?

[DigitalRaptor]

N4G, what's up with this double post stuff? Happened twice now.

@ Ging_Freecs

The announced AAA exclusives for Xbone are all projected for the second half of the year and it's getting later and later for MS to announce games for Q1 and Q2.

Halo 5 is clearly a 2015 holiday release.
Tomb Raider is holiday 2015. http://www.vg247.com/2014/0...
Quantum Break is fall 2015 - reliably rumoured for September. https://twitter.com/Fucking...
Fable Legends - every single mainline Fable game has released around the holidays.

That is their AAA lineup. That is my logic, I'll wait for yours.
-----

@ Zidane1341

Turning the tables round at me won't help. I haven't had a problem as Sony doesn't cram all their games into holiday to "compete", but year round, and next year is the exact same deal. Where were the games this holiday? I count at least 3 AAA exclusive games this holiday.

[DigitalRaptor]

*Double post* =(

[OldDude]

@BlackTart

It was released on PC Nov 20th,2012. Yes,, its 2 years old, get over it. Some of us are already sick of playing it and have moved on. Don't be so protective of your precious PS4.

[agame914]

Scumbag

[NuggetsOfGod]

Lol exactly I have moved on from PS2...
Killing floor 2!!!!!!! Can't wait. I want that more than planetdide lol.

[BlackTar187]

@olddude

That is irrelevant to the point either of these people were making. How old it is means nothing at all to the point of him not saying he wants the game and the other guy saying this 2yr old game as a bad thing.

You make no sense. Don't be so anti ps4 for the heck of it.

It's hilarious how personal you guys take stuff. You just can't help but go to straight name calling. It says a lot about you

Can i ask why arre you in this article OldDude? By your own admssion you sold your PS4
"I ditched my PS4 after E3 when they revealed their lineup. Other than UC4 they have nothing of interest to me personally so unloaded it. I'm very happy with my PC, X1 and WiiU. I haven't regretted getting rid of it. #3.2"

So again why are you here? To name call? To troll? hmmmmm. Says old but i'm thinking 17

[TurboGamer]

It's kind of funny since Planetside 2 was known for running like shit, even on high end i7 CPU's.

[JonnyBigBoss]

I had a serious issue with my OC'd AMD Phenom 965. I later upgraded to an Intel Ivy Bridge and no longer had issues.

[jdiggitty]

It's the only game that spins up all my fans to max and hits over 55C on my system. If they can get it to even work on PS4 I'll be impressed.

[Animal Mutha 76]

And this is THE thing console fans. We can argue over gfx all you like but the reality is that both consoles have very average cpu cores.

Its one reason I think X1 is in a good position with dx12 being designed to reduce cpu overhead and the console has a lot of offload cabability.

ps4 also has its gpu compute card to play in fairness.

[monkeyDzoro]

The difference between X1 and PS4 CPUs is very very very small. Whereas the gap between their RAM is huge.

[Dudebro90]

Nope.

[Docknoss]

Whatever, directx12 will bring 7.5 draw increase with 50 percent increase in CPU the Xone will make up for it's RAM easily.

[lfc_4eva]

Sorry dude. Fail.

[Mechanism]

Misterx's buffoons out in full force.. The most desperate cult on the planet.

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

Oh really... well since that 176gb/sec bandwidth of GDDR5 is Soooooo much better than the 68gb/sec in the X1, why does Battlefield 4 and GTA 5 on PS4 take the same time to load textures as the X1?
Here let me teach you console kids somethin ;)

PS4's bandwidth is not 176GB/s...Sony PR Theoretical bandwidth.

At best it's bandwidth is 140GB/s real-world. Here i will let Digital Foundry tell you!
"Microsoft's argument seems pretty straightforward then. In
theory, Xbox One's circa 200GB/s of "real-life" bandwidth trumps PS4's
176GB/s peak throughput."
Theoretical bandwidth
XB1 DDR 3 68GB/s
XB1 ESRAM 218GB/s
PS4 GDDR5 176GB/s

Real-world bandwidth
XB1 DDR3 50GB/s
XB1 ESRAM 150GB/s
PS4 GDDR5 140GB/s
That's how it works.

[Brettman2008]

GUTZ

Funny how you didn't put a link to the article. Almost every multiplatform game has superior graphics on PS4 so it is obvious that PS4 is more powerful.

[tlougotg]

You guys try too hard. Facts..... difference between xbone cpu and PS4 are negligible but the gpu on ps4 is better than Xbone by a good margin and that isnt up fopr debate. Stop making it seem as if the cpu disparity, is similar to the gpu disparity because it is not!

[Lulz_Boat]

too bad that DX12 benefits are related to PC Only.

[frostypants]

@Animal Mutha 76, dude, even MS has acknowledged that DX12 will have negligible impact on the One's performance. What you see now is what you've got. Same goes with the PS4. There's no secret sauce coming, and these aren't complex platforms with a lot of untapped performance (e.g. as with the PS3 early in its life). These consoles were designed to provide easily-accessible/programmable resources. Good on devs for busting their butts trying to squeeze every little bit out of them...people mis-interpret this as them struggling, but really they're just trying to do the best job possible. In this case they are trying to give gamers their magical 60fps/1080p without watering down the effects or textures...they *could* take the easy way out and just ax the latter stuff. But they aren't, because they apparently give a crap. And yet it seems many gamers will spin this negatively...

[Lenrulesdaworld]

They never said negligible, that said it won't have a major impact but will have an impact none the less. Not blowing ps4 out the water or making it more powerful, making what xbox does well even better. Meaning you will see a change or improvement.

[corroios]

Tired of cross gen games... The major strengh of the PS4, from what i read, is in a game built for GPGPU...

Even Ubicrap show the strengh of the PS4 when used like that, so why they dont use? Someone? is it more expensive?
do they need to build a new engine for that use?

[kingPoS]

Maybe they use a universal compiler that calculates the optimal workload between platforms. My guess is they were trying to save money in the most round about way.

Gateway MT6706 2008

[SoapShoes]

This isn't cross gen though it could not work on PS3.

[Pandamobile]

GPGPU is not the be all to end all for the PS4. Yes, it certainly has GPGPU capabilities, but using GPU resources for otherwise CPU-destined tasks only takes away from the total amount of graphics horsepower available.

That and you can't use GPGPU for everything. Only certain tasks can be applied to the GPU for processing. Lots of stuff still needs to be done in sequence.

[Pandamobile]

Yes, clearly I am the troll.

[Amuro]

-----
"CPU-destined tasks only takes away from the total amount of graphics horsepower available."
-----

Wrong.

PS4's GPU has 18 CUs of which 4 where put there strictly for GPGPU.

14 CUs for render is the recommended balance by Cerny but you can still use the 18 of them for render if you want. But after 14 the others aren't as effective. That's why the Xbone can keep up with only 12 graphic wise. [each CU has 64 stream processors BTW]

-----
"That and you can't use GPGPU for everything. Only certain tasks can be applied to the GPU for processing. Lots of stuff still needs to be done in sequence."
-----

True, that's why both consoles were shipped with a CPU inside and not just one gigantic GPU. But the point of GPGPU is not to do everything, its purpose is to help the CPU like the CELL did with the weaker GPU on PS3. [it's a clever way for them to save money on hardware too]

http://cdn.vgleaks.netdna-c...

^The quote below is Cerny talking about the chart I posted above.

Mark Cerny: "That comes from a leak and is not any form of formal evangelisation. The point is the hardware is intentionally not 100 per cent round. It has a little bit more ALU in it than it would if you were thinking strictly about graphics. As a result of that you have an opportunity, you could say an incentivisation, to use that ALU for GPGPU"

Full Interview:
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Pandamobile]

Regardless, if you're allocating resources for x task, you're going to have less resources for y task. It's it's a pretty simple concept.

A PS4 does not have unlimited compute power.

[Gamerbeyond]

pc/ps4 is not crossgen, nice try,

[Forn]

Talk to Cerny about GPGPU ;-)

[DoctorJones]

Yeah, Knack is a great example on how to port a game from pc to ps4. If anyone knows it would be that Cerny bloke. Because no one but that Cerny fella would understand anything about programming.

Nope, no one. Just him.

[Forn]

I wasn't being serious... Goodness.

[kingPoS]

I'm lookong forward to PS2 on the PS4. (heh) I've heard that It can really intense. It looks to be the closest to Warhawk as I've seen a game ever come. All they need to add is a third person view and it's all set.

Gateway MT6706 2008

[joeorc]

For the last freaking time:

http://www.redgamingtech.co...

this whole concept trying to somehow some way make out that the gap In CPU power for the xboxone cpu has over the ps4 is pretty funny to say the least.

think about this, taking a benchmark like above has a 12 in the case of the xboxone vs the 14 for the ps4...the blunt truth is if all of the 8 cores are used that is = to another xboxone cpu core and still have compute left over. Now try the freaking reverse with all xboxone cpu cores!

there is a direct Astroturphing attempts by media and some gamers to change, the perception and arguments, but the blunt truth of the matter cannot be changed.

and the fact certain gamers want to twist this interview statements to bolster the xboxone cpu over the ps4 cpu is pretty ironic, because this was talking about the things they had to change from the PC ver. The xboxone was not even in the discussion. Because planetside 2 is not going to the xboxone..lol

[windblowsagain]

Nothing to do with lies.

PS4 does have a big advantage GPU/RAM side of things.

CPUS are very close.

I think Sony might update cpu speed.

[joeorc]

Even in CPU its not really that close still. Think about this

http://www.redgamingtech.co...

that is per each cpu core

now each core

per single core =12 for xboxone
per single core =14 for ps4
* this was after the 10% was released for the xboxone

now take the direct 12 to reduce 50% to the cpu
and
ICE engineering team to 50% reduce 50% to the ps4 cpu

= we are backto where we started from that is the core truth at this
there is just more overhead on a hardware level with the ps4, there is no way around it. That is just the blunt truth.

[xxmagicmanx]

"CPUS are very close"..?? Hahahaha

[frostypants]

Uh...they are, man. Not even debatable. You're wrong.

[OldDude]

You guys and your GDDR5 is the second coming stuff. GDDR is good for graphics but the latency makes it less than ideal for the CPU. Its a trade off, it isn't the amazing thing you guys make it out to be.

[AutoCad]

Again, the graphical fidelity is every bit as high. The slowdowns we have are on the CPU side more than the GPU side. It’s because we’re tracking and updating so many different players moving on your screen and moving around at once.

Unity agrees.

[joeorc]

Stop it, please just stop it this has nothing to do with UNITY and ubisofts game engine! Trying to make it = to the same to try to prove a point is moot because they are not using the same freaking game engine!

this has no bearing on how the Xbox one CPU performance would be in this situation vs how well it is for the ps4. There is no indication the Xbox one would do any better is if it could do it even better than the ps4 could. Because the Xbox one is not freaking running the same engine as planetside 2 is running on the ps4, because Xbox one is not getting planet side 2.

so no they are not agreeing with Ubisoft.

[BludoDaSmelly]

Just leave it on pc then you don't have to deal with constraints.

[gangsta_red]

Interesting, weren't the Ubi devs also saying something about the PS4's CPU for Assassin's Creed: Unity?

[joeorc]

Again read my post above, this has nothing to do with how this game will run on the ps4 and how unity currently runs. And again as I just said on how this game would run on the Xbox one. Because the fact of the matter is this game is not going on the Xbox one.

trying to point this as more proof that the Xbox one CPU
is better than the ps4 CPU is pretty freaking ironic when benchmarks show otherwise.

[gangsta_red]

Well considering I never even brought up the Xbox One I find it even more ironic that you have too.

It almost sounds like your scared or desperately trying hard to defend something that was never even mentioned.

I could have sworn Ubisoft said they had bottleneck issues with the CPU of the PS4 also. That is all I am mentioning and asking, nothing to do with Xbox One, nothing to do with Planetside 2 running on Xbox One, nothing to do with saying the CPU for X1 is stronger than the PS4's.

[Kribwalker]

He is a Sony apologist. Nothing to see here gangsta.

And with the guy above stating sony will update the clock speed of the CPU, lol, they will also send out the cooling fan add-on and extend your warranty for 3 years cause that PS is gonna fry if they do that. Ms prepped for CPU boost with the cooling system inside, no way sony can boost it with a clear conscience

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

joeorc, you was better off not replying.

Given his post history that was most likely what he was implying, but you jumped the gun.

Falls on #7 of this http://cdn-www.cracked.com/... . Read it and understand the ways of the trollol.

[Edward75]

@joeorc

When did he even talk about the xboxone?

Wow, bringing the FAnboy in just to bring it up!

[GodGinrai]

"And again as I just said on how this game would run on the Xbox one."

The only reason its not on XB1 is for the obvious fact that its a sony game. We can all agree on that. But surely you should draw the line at how it would run on XB1 as that is only ever going to be hypothetical. You simply cannot say how it will run. also..if the game was made in DX on PC (as is usually the case)...It would not take long to port and optimise for xbox. But again thats all hypothetical..cant call it either way.

For what its worth i Play this on one of my media PC (Core i7 2600K@ 4.2GHZ (OC) Nvidia/asus 670TI and 32GB of ram) my DAW (music production-work) PC is actually even more powerful( Core i7 4960X with 64GB), but this one has the better GPU. that one is running my old 560TI. I dont know how a PS4 GPU stacks up against either, but I know I can 1080P @60FPS with all kinds of effects turned up.

[joeorc]

Who are you trying to convince that you were not implying such?

hey its very easy to sit there and claim I'm not doing such and such when you are drinking out of a Microsoft Mug, wearing a Go Microsoft T shirt/ typing your response from a Microsoft powered! device Lol

well "I never said those things, you did"

all the while pretending not to be implying .....it

LMAO

[maniacmayhem]

Dude, you are the only one in here desperately trying to turn this into a Xbox fanboy thing.

If someone is wearing all that MS gear then what Sony apparel are you wearing replying to everyone and complaining about Xbox One's CPU?

[Alexious]

He's not talking about PS4 specifically. He's saying that Planetside 2 (which uses the Forgelight engine) has bottlenecks on CPU side, as all MMOs do as they have to track down massive worlds with thousands of players in it.

[S2Killinit]

how good is this game

[ATi_Elite]

Not gonna argue xb1 CPU vs ps4 CPU but I'm glad Sony fans pointed out the benchmark test showing

Ps4 at 14mbs
Xb1 at 12mbs
Pc at 26mbs on a CPU that is now 2 generations old so neither console is comparable to a high end Pc.

Oh and CPU does matter for framerates

http://www.extremetech.com/...

The CPU has to render the frame so the gpu can fill it and you see that the core i5 has almost a 20 frame per second advantage.

Both CPU in the consoles are more suited for 30fps.

[Amuro]

saying that 30 frames is suited to the CPU is nonsense. Frame-rate depends on the design of the game. That's why we had 60 frames games even on the PS1.

[Tzuno]

the truth surfaces, 8 low freq cores and amd man is hurting better a low power i5, well maybe next next gen.

[Amuro]

not gonna happen because by next gen stuff like AI, physics and stuff will be more complex and require more CPU power and we'll end up in the same place again. That's why I say that frame-rate depends on design. If you want 60 frames you'll have to sacrifice something for it. On PC that problem is not present because the hardware is always ahead of the software.

[urwifeminder]

I found the game to be disappointing have not played in a long while due to patch size , one of the most grinding things I have played enjoyed the atv racing though may go back for a look one day.

[esemce]

Remember me saying this in future, this game WILL NOT be 1080p with a locked 60fps, it will be a locked 30fps or a unlocked 40-50fps.

Only delusional noobs will disagree, if BF4, Killzone SF and Cod AW can't do a rock solid 1080p60fps then neither will Planetside 2.

[mediate-this]

Mat cent assured us that the ps4 has ZERO bottlenecks! Like just p.r dribble.

[Razuel]

ugh, let the consumer decide with a blurred 60fps, and photo mode at 30fps.

[edqe]

It is not a huge surprise. All console games are about graphics but straightforward and simple game logic. TLOU, Tomb Raider, Uncharted -series, etc. are just action packed simple games. I thought console gamers already knows it and they are fine with it - otherwise they would buy a PC.

[Claudinho69]

fps priority should always be 60 fps

[payikick]

The problem here was using AMD for the CPU, dont get me wrong I love AMD and their graphic cards are amazing but they are still having issues with per core performance compared to Intel. Less is sometimes more I suppose. Even a g3258 2 core pentium chip heavily outperforms a quad core 750k in benchmarks and real world applications.