ICE Team Dev: PS4 Is No Longer Top of the Line Hardware But That Does Not Relate To Games Quality

Cort Stratton is a programmer at Naughty Dog and is also a member of Sony's ICE team. Helooks after PS4's GPU driver / graphics API and as such he knows the ins and outs of the hardware.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

As a PC gamer i have to ask, was it ever? and as a Nintendo fan i agree, you don't need top hardware to have the best games. Look at Mario Galaxy, 1 and 2 are the highest rated exclusives of last GEN... all on 72MB of ram.

I just wish everyone would stop focusing on graphics and start focusing on gameplay.

[Future_2015]

I have heard a lot of "beast" comments on the PS4, it has a tablet CPU

[Big_Game_Hunters]

Yeah but i mean... oh well.those are Sony fanboys, can't do anything about it. The games look fine, The order looks great visually, but then my second point comes up.

[XBLSkull]

Not even in the concept or design phase was the PS4 top of the line hardware lol, you make that sacrifice when you choose to put out a console in a 4-500 price range lol. Funny that at one point this ICE member thought it was top of the line.

[colonel179]

Since when is a console better than a PC when it releases. The PS3 was different, but I don't think it was still more powerful than PCs of the time.

@XBLSKull

"you make that sacrifice when you choose to put out a console in a 4-500 price range"

Can you blame them? Look what happened with the PS3. Look at what's happening with the Xbox One. It won't matter if the console is the most powerful machine in existence. People won't pay for it.

[gootimes]

@XBLSkull
Of course they will talk up the PS4 hardware, they are part of Sony. But at least they can admit it has faults, without throwing secret sauce talk around and stuff.

@Big_Game_Hunters

"The games look fine" Uncharted looks the be the greatest looking game visually I have ever seen. That has less to do with hardware, and more to do with ND being magicians.

And about your second point "I just wish everyone would stop focusing on graphics and start focusing on gameplay"

It's actually the PC enthusiasts that started the graphics obsession, always needing the top of the line hardware to show off everything in ultra, spectacular 4k, uber graphics. I got caught up too, buying a 2,000 PC about 5 years back, now the piece of junk isn't worth the plastic it is made out of.

You talk like PS4 fans are so bad for comparing their console to the X1, they are targeted to the same consumers, of course they will be compared hardware wise.

[ABizzel1]

The only thing top of the line about the PS4 in comparison to PC at the time was the amount of graphics memory. Other than that it was a mid-range GPU, with dual low-end notebook CPUs. It's not a bad console, but with $100 more to budget it could have been an even greater piece of hardware with a good GPU upgrade (based on a downgraded R9 280 instead of a downgraded R9 270), and 4GB of DDR3 to run the OS, and all that GRAM for games.

@Future_2015

Stop trolling, the PS4 and XBO use the notebook versions of Jaguar, not the tablet version, and their CPUs are dual A6-5200 or Athlon 5150 / 5350.

A6 vs 5350
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/AMD...

A6 vs 4350 (AMD FX low end)
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/AMD...

A6 vs 8350 (AMD FX high end, excluding the 9000)
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/AMD...

A6 vs i5 4670k (Intel go to gaming CPU)
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Int...

A6 vs 17 4770k (Intel pretty much top end consumer CPU)
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Int...

So definitely nowhere near a top end CPU from AMD or Intel (clock speeds have a lot to do with that as well), but with it being 8 cores, it should be on par with a 4350 at least, and much better in multi-tasking (which games are starting to be built upon).

[dcbronco]

I'm not sure how anyone could disagree with current consoles not being top of the line. Ah yes. Fanboys. The GPUs were out of date at launch and the CPUs are mobile chips that have been replaced by a more efficient model. Console gamers need to get over any ideas about competing with PCs graphically. Mantle ended any hope of that ever being the case again. The best we can hope for is better custom parts and infrastructure to create a better overall experience. In the next two years the new Alienware Steam machine will make current gen console games look last gen. But we won't need to upgrade every other year.

[NewMonday]

Consoles are fixed design and that matters in development, PC needs "brute force" to get results, this means the PS4 can match higher powerd PC's, the Witcher 3 is proof.

[Chrischi1988]

Mantle took away a big part of your so called optimization. And there are only a few graphics card manufacturers. They are closer than what most console fanatics would ever admit.

The whole problem here is, that consoles basically took a lot from PCs, to be the next gen consoles and all act like they are better then PCs, even though everything that is new and better, came from PCs. Onlineplay, very good graphics, streaming and whatsoever. This is why this whole talk is ridiculous and because PS4 fans bash all other consoles for exactly these reasons, but if PC gamers tell them to be quite, because they are not the top dog in that department, suddenly it is about the quality of games, but if Nintendo fans say that, it doesnt count, because PS4 has better graphics... so stupid. Chose one, stay with that.

[imt558]

Well, Xbone is not outdated.

http://i.imgur.com/pRbMT2S....

Now i'm going in a bar drink some beer and laugh on this.

Damn, most funnies blog on the net.:)

[Vegamyster]

@NewMonday

"Consoles are fixed design and that matters in development, PC needs "brute force" to get results"

This isn't a top of the line PC but still outperforms both consoles by a fair margin.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

The GTX 750 Ti which can be found for less than $130 can compete with the PS4 just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"PS4 can match higher powerd PC's, the Witcher 3 is proof."

We haven't even seen what the PS4 version looks like, the Xone version shown at E3 was 900p and struggled to keep 30 fps in combat so chances are the PS4 version will be 1080p either with a locked 30 fps or with dips too. A higher end PC will be doing better both graphically and framerate wise

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

@The_Infected

That GIF is small and not an accurate representation.

http://static2.gamespot.com...

http://i.imgur.com/XOUMmTd....

Admittedly it still looks great but not like the GIF, also Naughty Dog confirmed that trailer was In-engine but that doesn't mean the gameplay will look like that.

[Eonjay]

As soon as tech is released it is no longer top of the line. Thats why its pointless to stay on top of every new thing because you wouldn't have any money for food lol.

The PS4 is still the most powerful console and will be able to play games 5 years from now when most PC rigs will be trash, or have hundreds or thousands invested in them.

Oh and Microsoft puts DX12 in Windows 9 exclusively, we riot.

[nix]

here we go again... /:

same discussion. every time.

[fr0sty]

XBLSkull, funny that ICE programmer knows more about computer hardware than you ever will, considering he's the one actually making these games for the hardware (for one of the best developers in the world, no less) and is the one whose day to day job is to figure out ways to get more out of that hardware. If he wants to say something is the best or is not, he's qualified to do so. You on the other hand, just troll forums. When your name pops up in the credits for the next Uncharted game, then I'll give you my ear.

[Loktai]

People need to remember heat, noise and so on when trying to compare and say you can just magically upgrade for more money. Of course you can add hardware for more money but last time Sony tried to make a beast it suffered at the market because it was expensive as hell, it was also not only pricey but pricier than comparable competition which was the real issue even if you got better value due to the bluray drive but who knew bluray would win the format war in the beginning? People could guess but who KNEW?

You cant build a desktop as thin and small and low-noise low-power as a PS4 for the price of the PS4, the "tablet CPU"... why are you calling it a tablet CPU when its more in line with a laptop in actuality? Its also impossible to buy a tablet with the kind of config a PS4 comes in, and if you do please include a Bluray drive.

If you want a high end PC and you want it small and quiet and so on you need to invest in seriously high end non-stock cooling, a good HTPC case and its still going to consume more power and possibly be louder than a PS4 especially under load, of course it will kick the PS4s butt in performnace but at a higher cost and you wont have any sony exclusives, or XBOX exclusives unless they get ported later (clearly more likely on the XBOX given Ryse).

I love PC and was a HUGE PC gamer, I have what WAS a monster gaming PC at one time (A dual quad-core workstation(dual Xeon E5450s@3ghz) with 16gb of memory and a 2gb Geforce 480 SOC(about 580 level). I still had just as much fun overall with my PS3 during the same timeframe.

[NewMonday]

@Vegamyster

you miss the point completely , even if a high end $1000+ PC can push higher numbers the actual performance of the PS4 will match it in image quality because of optimization.

in the case of the Witcher3 a PC needs to be over 3 times as powerful as the PS4 to start getting better performance than the console.

no point in hardware numbers if the actual games software doesn't scale the same.

[Vegamyster]

@NewMonday

"in the case of the Witcher3 a PC needs to be over 3 times as powerful as the PS4 to start getting better performance than the console."

You do realize a PC that has 3X more power then a PS4 would come with a GTX 780 TI/Titan which is a GPU capable of doing 1440p 50+ fps on Battlfield 4 on Ultra with 4x MSAA?

http://www.digitalstormonli...

What you're talking about is not possible with a low wattage AMD APU and again we haven't even seen what the game looks like on the PS4 or how well it performs on a PC for that matter.

"you miss the point completely , even if a high end $1000+ PC can push higher numbers the actual performance of the PS4 will match it in image quality because of optimization."

I'm the one who posted videos with performance comparisons telling you don't need a high end PC to compete with these consoles, I'm getting disagreed with despite providing IN-GAME benchmarks so can you please tell me how I'm wrong.

[AliTheSnake1]

Every piece of technology you buy, gets outdated within few months.

[BootyBandit]

This is a no brainer as far as power goes but what about cost {hardware and energy bills - I have a 1200 watt PSU in my PC] and ease of use? I have a high end PC and I absolutely love my racing games on ultra settings triple 1080p displays. But I can't tell you how many hours I have to spend when I run into conflicts.

That is why I enjoy both and there are some weeks I just want no part of PC gaming because of issues I run into sometimes just burn me out and I say F it and jump on my PS4 or X1.

Most of my friends that were once PC only have jumped into console gaming for that very reason. They want to get in and get out without hassles. But I love racing games too much and the amazing deals on Steam to turn my back on PC gaming altogether. That is why I am fortunate enough to have the best of all worlds.

I learned my lessons over the years and now my PC gaming rig is for gaming only. I don't surf or use email on it. It is strictly for gaming and gaming only to cut down on running into problems.

Also I will always have consoles because of their exclusive. Personally I enjoy their exclusives more than the PC. If not for Steam I would probably be mainstream console gaming. But right now I'm going to turn some laps in Assetto on the PC and than play some Destiny on the PS4 later.

[ShinMaster]

Technically, your PC is outdated the moment you finished building it and new parts hit the shelf.

LAST GEN consoles with 8 year old hardware managed to run games that were also demanding on PC with less than 512mb of RAM.
http://n4g.com/news/1587286...

[AndrewLB]

To correct some people... the AMD Jaguar low-power Micro-architecture found in PS4 and Xbone was designed primarily for notebooks, mini-pc's, netbooks, and high end tablets. Even though it was released in early-mid 2013, it's base architecture "Bobcat" is actually from 2011, making it more of an evolutionary step than anything.

Both Consoles use customized versions with twice the number of CPU cores as you'll find in any other application, and both contain GPU's which are more powerful than any APU currently offered to OEM's or system builders. The exclusivity of these enhanced APU's are because of contractual agreements with AMD for an unknown number of years.

Even today, a year after these consoles launched, their GPU's are the fastest found in any APU available. While that is great for power saving, for the same amount of money either console could have had a more powerful GPU had they gone with the more traditional "integrated GPU" type setup. Such a setup would have given them a MUCH larger number of GPU's to choose from, including those found on much more powerful discrete graphics cards.

I'd also like to add that the only reason PC gamers even commented on the GPU's in these consoles is because they kept reading gaming journalists, bloggers, and fanboys making the claim that "_____ console is a Beast" or "_____ console on par with high end gaming PC", and other such nonsense. I know there are console gamers out there who have a firm understanding of the power of these architectures, but they largely stayed silent. Had I seen them reply to those claims with an honest assessment of the console's power because such comments were making everyone look foolish, i probably would have never even commented.

And I'm not talking trash. I actually think both consoles are producing outstanding graphics with the hardware they have. My criticism from the start has always been that I believe Microsoft and Sony were BOTH stupid for not using a graphics processor that could comfortably produce modern graphics at 1080p/60 since that has been a standard for many years now.

This is the first generation of consoles where I haven't owned at least one of them in addition to my gaming/workstation PC, and this is 100% due to both companies decision to use hardware incapable of running that graphics standard. Had they met that threshold, i would have bought a PS4 right after launch just like i did with PS3, 360, PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, N64, TurboGrafx-CD, TurboDuo, SNES, NES, Genesis, Atari 2600, sega master system, and Calicovision.

[donthate]

Well the consoles certainly are under powered, but I didn't buy it for the power. I bought it for the ease of use and platform. I don't care about the power.

I chose an Xbox 360 and PS3, before the current generation released, so clearly it wasn't for the powah.

[GAMEnjoy_]

Even if so... still faster than your brain :)

[extermin8or]

@future 2015: saying something is a beast in compared to rival consoles/previous generation and saying it is top end hardware is not the same thing. Also for the price it's pretty good and I think plenty of devs have proved they can get results out of non top of the range hardware just fine. Generally top of the range hadware in it's first iteration is incredibly inefficient anyway. It takes a couple of iterations for that to improve at which point it's no long top of the range and is used in consoles... Point is it's not just about the hardware and the consoles are doing fine. Hell ps3 games are still being released and with the correct dev behind them they still look good and play fine.

[SilentNegotiator]

How long are you elitists going to make that completely uninformed claim?

[Baccra17]

I thought it was a cellphone cpu.

[Ocsta]

@ XBLSkull

And YOUR precious set top box IS top of the line? It freaking blows donkeys you fanboy! Stop trolling every article with the word "PS4" in it! Why don't you just dissapear along with Truefan and Morepowerofgreen??

[TongkatAli]

Pot calling the kettle black, you're a Nintendo fanboy and you're preaching Mario Galaxy were the best games last gen, puhuhuhu, too fing funny.

Those reviews were payed for after playing Mario Galaxy, more overhyped and less fun to play then Destiny.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

i'm not saying those games were the best last gen, i don't believe they were the best games of last gen, that doesn't change the numbers though, i was only using the Galaxy games to prove a point that hardware =/= quality.

If you think the galaxy games are over-hyped that's fine, but most people don't, not just reviewers.

[ScottyHoss]

Except destiny is actually fun to play

[Clumpy]

I know it's hard to accept that Super Mario Galaxy is a better game then Destiny, but please dont be so butthurt about it. Thank you.

[MrCherry]

Thk you!!!! the first gamer Iv seen say thattt. I care how the game plays not looks. I dont get into a game like COD and start kicking a$$ online and doing reely good, but look at that sun wow. Sory more gameplay for me.

[Chrischi1988]

"“For example: the PS3 is ~2005-era hardware, roughly. Compare TLOU (2013) to AAA PC games from 2005,” he further added."

Hahaha, what a dumb comment. That is like saying, that the graphics setup from 2005 in a PC was already completely maxed out in 2005 and it cannot improve anymore. Like there is absolutely no optimizing happening on PCs. Did anyone ever install an Nvidia driver? Almost all new stuff in the driverupdate info is, how much a game improved in performance.

[zerog]

The point is is that a high end pc from 2005 could not today run a game like the last of us at the same quality, it doesn't matter how many driver updates you put in it. The 05 pc still has to brute force most of its graphics where the ps3 has been streamlined in optimization to a point that makes pc programing laughable. The same will be true this gen as well just like every other console gen. A console comes out and the pc guys come out thinking they know everything saying "my rig that cost 2x, 3x, 4x or whatever is better". Well I hope so for the money you wasted on it, the problem is is that in 5 years your $1000-2000 rig will be worth $50 and consoles will be outperforming it again with optimizations and you'll be out blowing another grand to keep ahead during that time. Then theres all the headachs of conflicting hardware, software ect on pc. I tell you pc guys what I'd rather spend $400-500 on a machine that I know every piece of software I buy will work and be a year or 2 behind on the absolut best graphics then waste hundreds and thousands even just to say I have the absolute best graphics every other year. And lets face it you pc guys, most of you probably only have mid range pcs anyway yet you get on here and brag and even lie just to feel superior when the truth is you're all just compensating for your own insecurities as gamers and/or in life.

[Vegamyster]

@Zerog

PS3 came out in 2006, a high end 8800 GTX still out performs PS3/360 multiplats to this day.

BF4 8800 GTS: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

On 360/PS3: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

4+ year old GTX 480 playing Watch Dogs better then Xone & PS4: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Flamingweazel]

Whats your point?? Consoles are never top of the line...unless you want 1000 do=llar consoles they never will be they are mass market, people need to move on, games look amazing on it, more then good enough

[RedDeadLB]

While I do agree on the point of gameplay > graphics, I have a point to make as well.

Yesterday I played Crysis on a PS3. The image was so blurry and washed out I could hardly recognize enemies in the level. I've played Red Dead Redemption, which is an excellent game by itself, and it's also so blurry at times you don't even know what the hell you're shooting at.

So, does gameplay matter more than graphics? Yes it does. Can bad image quality negatively effect gameplay? Yes it can. That's why powerful hardware and good graphics come to play.

[zerog]

Sounds like you have a crappy tv or don't know what hdmi is.

[irokster]

I played Crysis 3 and Red Dead the day they came out and had no problems distinguishing enemies and/or things to shoot at in both games. Maybe you should get a better tv/monitor?

[RedDeadLB]

I've hooked up my PS3 both to my 1080p PC monitor via HDMI and my living room HD ready TV and in both instances Crysis 1 looked like crap and Red Dead was blurry.

I believe both games aren't even rendered at 720p, so everything a little far off is a blurry blob.

Still doesn't change my point though.

[starchild]

Well I wouldn't say that it "doesn't relate to games quality", because it very obviously does. If hardware performance didn't relate to games quality at all there would be no point for Sony to release the PS4. They could have saved all that money and just kept making games for the PS3.

What IS true is that a game's quality has more to do with the care, attention and talent put into it than it does with raw hardware specs or the engine it is running on. Not that the latter two things are unimportant. They definitely are important, it's just that many people tend to somewhat overestimate their importance.

The PS4 will get some really fantastic-looking games thanks to the talent and skill of developers like Naught Dog and Sony Santa Monica.

Same goes for the Xbox One and Wii U, there will be some great looking games on those consoles.

That said, there are great developers on all platforms and the more powerful platforms will tend to always have the better graphics. This is especially true since most games are multi platform.

[geddesmond]

Lol thats why Wii Us are flying out of shop doors lol. Nearly 2 years on the market and PS4 has 3 mil more sales while Xbox 1 is only 1 or 2 mil behind. Yeah you don't need top hardware. Thats why casette tapes are selling so well compared to blu rays and DVD because better picture quality doesn;t matter. Thats why everyone still has big cardboard box looking analogue tvs because how things look doesn't matter.

That mindset of great graphics equals crap gameplay is horse crap as many games have great gameplay and great graphics for their time. Mixed in with amazing storytelling and direction. Some would say storytelling is more important than gameplay. Unfortunately saving a princess from a giant turtle is not only repeated so much but its complete crap.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

You realize the article is saying that the PS4 is weak/outdated but it doesn't matter because game quality is what matters, you get that right? also story > gameplay =cancer killing gaming.

[geddesmond]

@Biggamehunt

Of course the PS4 hardware is out of date compared to high end PCs available now and graphics cards that will coming in a few years but there is many reasons why people only play consoles.

Right now the PS4 offers the most power on consoles so thats what consol gamers who want nice looking games will go for.

I could go out now and spend 2000 euros on a high end PC and in 2 years that will be out of date too. Not to mention that all that power won't matter as long as developers don't take advantage of it which most won't because the amount of PC gamers with high end machines are outnumbered by those that don't have high end.

Consoles are the cheaper more compact option for gamers. Anyway right now games on consoles look amazing and this is just the start of this gen. Developers will keep finding more and more ways to deliver better looking games as this gen moves forward.

Cancer killing gaming? When I think back, all my favorite games the last 3 gens have had great stories, graphics and gameplay. All 3 matter not just one.

[Mithan]

As a PC gamer, no it was never "top of the line" compared to the PC obviously.

As a console, it is top of the line. There isn't anything else out there better.

Destiny looks damn nice, so we know this system can put out some great graphics, that should only improve somewhat from here.

[conanlifts]

I do agree mostly with what you said. With regards to graphics however, if people just wanted great games regardless of graphics they wouldn't have upgraded to a PS4 or Xbox one. It is an easy way for people to see what they are getting. The issue with this is that some new games push more assets on screen and people overlook this and simply focus on the graphics, rather than the fact that you can now have X number more people/objects or whatever on the screen. But yes the No 1 thing is game play and always should be.

[sonypsnow]

Playstation Now is way more powerful than the highest end Gaming PC.

[nitus10]

Looking at the next generation consoles from an engineering perspective it takes at the very least one to three years or even more from the initial design phase to the final product so it is fairly obvious that when the product hits the market there is always going to be something better.

Since PC's can easily be upgraded it is no wonder that a top of the line or gaming PC will always outperform the PS4, Wii U or XB1 however this comes at a cost.

As for games that really falls to the developer. even then developers are in a business, so supporting a product that will have a very long lifetime is so much easier than trying to keep up with technology trends. Of course there are exceptions but they are really limiting themselves to a much smaller market.

[Ashraf89]

Pfft. Just play all your pirated downloaded games on your PC. Poor PC peasant.

[Ozmoses]

what are any of you talking about.. since the computer age began it's followed a simple principle..

as soon as something new is released; it becomes obsolete.

as soon as you buy anything.. an HDD, RAM, CD Drive, Blu Ray...whatever it may be... by the time you get home a better form of that technology has hit the market...

it's just the average consumer can't keep up with the never ending stream of upgraded components...

so yes if you look at it that way it I suppose is "Already outdated"

but logically this only really applies to "building machines"... therefore PC gaming.. since none of us build consoles...

consoles are meant to last for a standard amount of years.. sure the new ones are already in their creation phases.. but consoles have a set life time...

computers don't

I don't need to constantly upgrade my PS4 or Xbox One to play the game at the best standards.

all games on PS4 play the same on PS4 and all games on Xbox play the same on Xbox...

on PC you gotta spend all this extra shit on components and cooling systems.

and by the time the newest greatest games comes out 4 months after the last greatest game... you have to upgrade your PC again if you want to play it with "premium settings"

[Xristianous]

Agree with you there to a certain point, I love indie titles on console and certainly graphics aren't everything.

However if your playing a AAA title game it is the icing on the cake.

If the gameplay/style of game doesn't warrant having amazing graphics then I'm ok with more 'cartoonish' looks

[WickedLester]

No it wasn't. But you have to remember that the console market is very different from the PC market. There is a fine line that companies like Sony, MS, and Nintendo have to walk when designing a gaming console. Of course they want their consoles to be powerful but they also need to be sold at a mass market price AND be profitable. All things considered, I think the PS4 is a very well balanced machine that provide great looking games at an affordable price.

[RosweeSon]

Yeah at the end of the day ps4 is top end games console for now and will be for the next few years sure you can get better top end pc's for a price that need updating every 6-12 months to stay truly up to date but yeah I'm a big nintendo fan also and it's certainly not about the graphics, nintendo games certainly don't look bad by any stretch but wow the gameplay puts 90% of other games to utter shame. The whole they are for kids argument is just pathetic. Never watch any cartoons or Pixar films ever then I take it your loss nintendo are fantastic at what they do and others should learns lot more on the games front instead of just borrowing all their console and controller ideas over the years.
Happy with all the current gaming consoles as own them 360, everything from nintendo 3ds XL and wii u and a ps3/4 and vita, happy with them all in their own ways although my 360 has been with me 7 years (not the same console of course for obviously reliability issues) but it is getting retired in the next week or so and I have no plans to upgrade to an xbox one in the future, it was already inferior to ps4 from day one ok not saying never I'm just saying not at that price with these current xbox games and not for another year or so, got enough gaming on the game and have more than enough fun, got top end covered with ps4 once i set it back up and it gets going a bit more (that and I get through my current gen back log) but had it since day one not regretted it once, ps+ helps with that ;) nintendo really deserves a look tho if you enjoy fun you won't be dissapointed. But yeah big sony fan currently at the mo and the ps4 is beast sure it's not gonna be the best console ever as they'll always be a better one a around the corner it's just that corner is bare minimum 5 years away unless Microsoft decide they need to restart ;)

[raymantalk1]

whether or not the ps4 was top of the line or not is irrelevant IT IS THE BEST CONSOLE OUT at this time.

also when you get your top of the line pc it also is not top of the line.

as new better hardware is coming out all the time, making your pc out of date.

so it all boils down to are you happy with what you got.

if so then being top of the line dont matter does it.

[user7402931]

if you got a pc that matched ps4's specs ps4 will always destroy it because its coded to the metal.

[Timesplitter14]

As a programmer, I'd like you to explain to me this "coded to the metal" you speak of.

(tip: it's got nothing to do with the code. It's just that the PS4's OS is not as heavy as Windows)

[Holeran]

I think more of what he is saying is he has one target to hit not having to code to multiple cpu/gpu combos with variable amounts of ram and operating systems. When you have to make sure your game works on multiple different targets you have to take the worst and the best systems into consideration.

[PersonMan]

Coding to the metal means that they can use every ounce of power from the machine because they don't have to deal with Windows being in the way and they don't have to deal with hundreds of different configurations and compatibility issues.

It's like designing an add on for one specific vehicle will always be better on that vehicle than trying to design something that will work universally on all vehicles.

[Timesplitter14]

I think people greatly overestimate the advantages of "using every ounce of power from the machine".

The games still struggle to stay at 30fps/1080p, while their PC counterparts run at 60+fps/1080p with better visuals.

The only advantage a console has is the price. But that's only an advantage if you don't buy a PC, which is very unlikely. Here's what I mean: a PS4 is 400$ and a gaming PC is 1000$. However, EVERYONE needs a PC. Your PC may cost you like 500$ if you stick to your console for gaming, but that's still 500$ spent on something necessary that you would still have if you chose the gaming PC. In other words, the real price difference between a PS4 and a gaming PC is close to nothing

[Genuine-User]

You answered your own question.

[aerisbueller]

I'm a programmer as well, and Personman is exactly right.

I'd also like to add though, that if developers targeted gaming PC's more often, last gen consoles would have fallen far further behind than they did by the end of the generation.

[Baka-akaB]

This is one of those terms that people who have no idea what they are talking about use to somehow make their argument seem credible. The actual act of "coding to the metal" is not what many people believe.

[DarXyde]

This is not necessarily true. The benefit of fixed hardware is its ability to make very tailored optimizations. When a developer makes games for PC, they can't make it work amazingly well for every setup. In other words, for PC, performance benchmarks are taken as is since it can't be identically optimized for all combinations. Because consoles don't change chipsets, developers actually take the time to master them and draw out their power. You CAN do this on PC as well, but how often do we witness that? Hardware always evolves, so it probably doesn't make much sense.

Visually, the PlayStation 4 is at a point where you really have to ask yourself exactly how much better do these games need to look? They look plenty amazing, same goes for Xbox One.

You won't hear any complaints regarding power on my end.

[Kingdomcome247]

I agree. For my personal tastes, I'm fine with where graphics are currently. Games like Second Son, UC 4, and The Witcher 3 look incredible. If we stayed here graphically this gen, and used the allocated resources to focus on advancements in gameplay mechanics, enemy ai, and things of that nature, I'd be happy. As awesome as it is to see these advancements, at some point you'll hit the wall of diminishing returns. I wish the community cried out for innovation as the selling point as opposed to 1080p. Developers and publishers know that right now the community at large is looking for higher resolutions and visual fidelity,so that is where the resources are going. If you can have both, wonderful if not give, me the gameplay innovation.

[ABizzel1]

@DirtyPimp

Eventually, but not immediately.

@Timesplitter14

Low-level API coding, which is coming in DX12, but consoles have practically no overheads to worry about whereas PC does. For console CPU to GPU to RAM is significantly closer allowing data chains to flow significantly easier, and with the PS4 and XBo being APUs with the RAM right there, they're even more streamlined at work flow. Finally developers get years to work on this specific piece of hardware and fully maximize it's potential, whereas PC games are built to scale, never really maximizing any hardware through coding.

So overall performance of a console with the same specs as a PC will eventually surpass what that PC is capable of performing.

All this toget

[IVanSpinal]

"coded to the metal"
DirectX 12 2015 hahahaha

[Majin-vegeta]

I thought we were past the D12 crap already??Guess some people didnt get teh memo.
http://www.dualshockers.com...

[mysteryraz11]

Dx12 wont do nothing, pcs will never be able to perform as good as consoles, mantle failed and so will this, too many different configs for them to be as effecient

[tee_bag242]

Wow I wish you guys had 2 bubbles each so you could show us more examples of trolling gone bad

[gameDevWannaBe]

come again?
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Pc is cheaper if consider the free online and all.

I would pay $566 for this performance.

Coding to the metal is great but can it keep up with old pc hardware that is more powerful than ps4? and now new gpus coming from amd and nvidia.

ps4 and xbox are already and 720p - 1080p and 30fps.

Not sure ps4 games will be 1080p 60fps in 2016 lol.

ps5 will come faster than u think. watch...

[MRMagoo123]

Ps4 doesn't have a 720p game.

[mrpsychoticstalker]

Look at xbox one. It has amazing games not the best hardware. Ps4 we never top. PC wind that category easily

[WeAreLegion]

Yes. PS4, you never top. That must have taken a lot of guts to say. I applaud you.

[DanielGearSolid]

Lol

[Majin-vegeta]

No duah.The instant something is released it's already outdated,Cuz another better version is already being worked on.Plus fixed hardware will always.perform better.Since the devs don't have to worry about optimizing for a variety of things.

[gameseveryday]

A very honest reply. You won't see anyone doing that these days.

Respect for Cort Stratton.

[getrektedmate]

Apply that ICE on that burn m$ got last year

[Revengeance]

PS4 will still deliver the best games. FACT!

[Infamous298]

No doubt the PS4 will deliver but isn't too early to claim that and pass it as a fact?

[Ocsta]

No dude, he's completely right. The PlayStation family of consoles has brought the BEST gaming has to offer since 1995. Does it take time? Of course it does! But that's true of any console ever. Anyone who disagrees with that is an utter and complete liar. There seems to be some kind of Xbot disagree squad trolling this article but that doesn't make it any less of a FACT.

[Bladesfist]

@Octsa I can't even tell if that is sarcasm, bravo.

[Inzo]

PS1,2 and 3 delivered the best games, that is a fact, so I dont think he is wrong in saying the PS4 will do it and stating it as fact. Just look at the line-up coming.

[Timesplitter14]

And exactly where are those "best games"? We're approaching a whole year since launch and there still aren't any really great, lasting games.

The only PS4 exclusive that has potential is The Order, and after playing it yesterday at ComicCon Montreal, I can say i'm not really interested in it anymore

[gootimes]

Notice he said "will" and not "does", it can be argued that for consoles it does though.

PC has fantastic games for sure, but when buying a PlayStation console one is making an investment in the brilliant first party studios they have. The Last of Us is a great example, it being one of the greatest games made in a LONG time.

[PersonMan]

The PS3 was outdated a long time ago but look at what they were still able to achieve with it. GTA V and TLOU.

This generation has a long life ahead of it, especially because of the 8GB of RAM

[gameDevWannaBe]

I want ps5 by 2019-2020. I wont live forever so I need to see ps9 before I am old..

[Salooh]

Many including myself are expecting the ps5 at 2019 since the reveal of the ps4. This generation will be shorter due to it's low tech yet soo cheap. It's not future proof. Developers will demand for better hardware sooner. Which i want too as a gamer. I don't want to be stuck in the same level of games for 8 years -.- . They need to evolve faster..

[carreirabr]

I'd love to see a P4/GeForce7900 256x256MB combo running something like Uncharted 3, Killzone 3, GT6, Beyond, Bioshock Infinite, The Last of Us, Max Payne 3, GTA V at any time.

[DualWielding]

the thing people don't get is you cannot compare specialized hardware with dedicated hardware, consoles are of course less powerful than PCs but you can do much more with a console than with an equivalent PC, PC needs to be at least 3 times as powerful as consoles to achieve the same performance

[Predaking77]

I don't get why many PC fanboys try so hard to compare a console to a PC. Consoles are one category and PC is other category. It is really that hard to understand?

When people say "PS4 is a beast" they are referring to the console category. Why is so hard for the PC fanboys to stay on their category, are that that lonely?

[Imalwaysright]

PC gamers category is playing games. Same as console gamers. I don't know why it upsets you when someone talks about the advantages that PCs have when compared to consoles when console gamers compare console A to console B all the time.

[MRMagoo123]

Maybe it's too hard for you to understand but I will give it a go, pcs are not consoles, consoles are not pcs, compare pcs to different pcs , compare consoles to different consoles, I don't think I can make it any easier. I have worked in a pc shop repairing and making pcs for over a decade, so I am not against pc at all, but comparing pcs to console is just plain stupid because consoles can't be upgraded, that point alone makes all comparisons to pc moot.

[starchild]

@MRMagoo123

Let's not pretend. You are one of the most consistently anti-PC people on this site. Whether you actually work in a PC shop or not is completely irrelevant. You bash PC gaming nearly nonstop.

The PC is one of the main platforms for multi platform games. Each and every gamer has the choice of which platform to game on. People go from console to PC or from PC to console all the time. There is no barrier between them the way some of you would like to believe. It makes perfect sense to discuss the pros and cons of each gaming platform available to us.

[nitus10]

I think that depends on what the gamer likes. As you are most likely aware there are many genres such as FPS's, Sports, Action/Adventure, Sims RPG's etc and most people like at least 2 or more of these although rarely will a gamer like all.

There are also different gaming camps such as PC, Console, Handheld, Mobile as well as board and pen and paper games to name a few. You will always have a gamer who prefers one or more camps over others and that IMHO is a good thing.

From my personal perspective I prefer Action/Adventure and RPG's games on my console and I have no real interest in PC games even though I have a gaming PC.

[tee_bag242]

If both platforms can play the same multiplatforms why wouldn't a gamer compare them?

[Walker]

PS4 is on top of the line hardware of consoles this gen, that's matter !

[lemoncake]

It never was top of the line hardware though to start with, all of them have cheaped out this gen prioritising day one profits per system sold instead of just taking the game sales fees for the first few years. That's not to say the hardware overall is bad, it just could have been a whole lot better.

[nitus10]

Have you ever been involved with product design?

Designing a product is not a trivial exercise since you are looking at what is called "lead" time to manufacture and that can be a few years, so you need to take into account what the market will accept a few years in advance and that can seriously impact the choice of the parts.

It is all well and good criticising a product when it comes out but comparing a console (ie PS4, Wii U, XB1) against a PC which is easily upgradable (although you do pay for this) is IMHO silly. Now comparing the latest release consoles is much more appropriate.

[Tsar4ever01]

As a Playstation gamer and a to an extent a *Pc Gamer too(*Doom, Quake, Duke & UT series got me into PC gaming since 95) I can't understand why PC enthusiast on this site always get bent outta shape whenever Anybody mentions the technical prowess of the consoles, taking certain words out off context like "No longer TOP OF THE LINE" as such is beyond me.

Anybody who's done enough research on the specs of both PS4/XB1 knows that the specs don't impress much when compared to High-END PC enthusiast/Builders, Both current gen consoles *PS4 specifically, run on Cpu's that's built for laptop/netbooks and it's GPU is a GIMPED version of a GPU that was labeled a SOLID mid-range performer 2 yrs ago, with of course some modifications to give it some considerable longevity(*A 3rd Bus, and 8 ACE engines)That, and last off a power-supply with peak wattage of 250, I mean com'on, really? PC heads?

What the devs or console Hardware engineers are calling "Top of the line" is the technology built around integrating CPU/GPU pci controllers together on a single die and being able to run it all very efficiently off a low power-supply. And now that this fusing CPU/GPU on chip tech is already making its way to other type of hardware devices with better performance, and now the consoles are already starting to look old, alas the consoles was the pioneers of this tech.

Hey you PC heads on this site, It's not about the BRUTE POWER or PERFORMANCE CAPABILITY of High-End PC's vs Consoles. Anybody except Denialist and idiot fanboyism will never except those facts. It's really about what the consoles can do NOW when compared to last gen consoles.

[lemoncake]

The big thing with consoles though is it's not about what they can do now, but what they can do in 6-7 years time from now. The last gen consoles were extremely good and had some very good tech when they launched, they impressed from the start right up until the end. Can this gen do that? Atm there's not been anything released that blows you away to the extent that some of the early last gen games did.

[Tsar4ever01]

When I said NOW about the consoles capabilities, I also mean it in terms of the entire "life cycle" of the consoles and not just what it brings with it out the gate.

[acemonkey]

relax its tech it was outdated when we all picked up each system of choice either xb1 or ps4. we all know PC master race runs the high end specs.lol always coming in here with that

[Imalwaysright]

Imo it's the software that makes a console great, not the hardware. Give me games like Bloodborne and I'll be a happy camper. It's all about the games

[bandit905]

first of all when the hell was ps4 ever "top of the line hardware"

[windblowsagain]

There is never a pc that is the most powerful, because you can keep adding and adding all day long, then another card comes out, you can put 3-4gpu's together etc.

I'm playing through Infamous ss again and I've played Every top tier PC game and I haven't seen any game better looking.

Of course you can go higher Rez/AA depending on your hardware.

But IMO the top looking games on PC are.

Unreleased - Witcher 3.

BF3/BF4
CRYSIS 1/2/3

https://www.youtube.com/wat... Watch 1080p.

[swansong]

Can you buy a pc for $400 dollars that will play games that look as good and play as smooth as on the PS4?

[MRMagoo123]

Well as long as you don't need a keyboard, mouse, OS and a case , along with a bunch of other stuff you can make a really rubbish pc as seen in an article a few days ago, just make sure you have good fire alarms and turn it off at night.

[AutoCad]

for 100 more yes and backwards compatible .

[MRMagoo123]

So what you meant to say was no , he asked can you make a $400 pc that runs games like a ps4 , the answer is no and even at $500 the answer is still no.

[AutoCad]

you can make it,if you know what you doing.

[cyril sneer]

@swansong

But can you buy a ps4 for $400 and play all your games online for the rest of it's lifespan without spending any more.

[worldwidegaming]

same song. wonder if people get tired of hearing the same thing... since everything except the wii u is on x86, PCs benefit the most as anything made for the consoles can be run on a PC as well. no secret sauce or cell processing to hide behind now.

[Fkhalf16]

Damn!!! PC Master Race is all over this page. lol As long as ICE team dev work hard on Uncharted 4, Im a happy camper.

[neomahi]

The start of a console generation never really seems all that grand transitioning from an earlier generation. PlayStation 3 hardware was deemed inferior to the Xbox 360 hardware for years. Kutaragi - San knew better. He knew he has power under that hood. He was a genius ahead of his time. The Xbox 360 maxed out at Crisis 2 and especially with Gears of War 3 but, it took the PS3 much longer to do so.

Yes. Sony took a short cut this gen by using off the shelf parts so, it could be a shorter life cycle this time around but, gamers always wanted to see how Sony's talent would do developing for a PC. Well, they're about to find out. It'll still be fun to see how the consoles evolve and the little tricks they figure out over the years to optimize the console--though it likely won't take as long since the 8 core Jag is simplistic unlike the power of the Cell. It'll still be good times with great games.

[dRanzer]

I usually do not seem comments on things I do not understand but you have to understand a few things once and that's it

PC technology is at the top and this obvious but what it gives to us,the gamers, i do not understand? Some more FPS and resolution? That's why I need to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars?in any case if a new game released in a year after i bought my powerful graphics card it will be out od date becuse the market moved to news cards and i need to compromise about some features of graphics,and all this after i spend huge amount of money

Last generation of consoles came out great games like GOW3 TLOU and Uncharted series and had a wonderful graphics ,even in today's standardized and all that was with 512MB of RAM, a computer game would do that? Push the limits of the console and see wonders things? no developer for pc bother to develop something huge that makes all good for the eyes.

And always remember, these days everything comes out even today is out of date

my longest commnet to date :D

[Haru]

Who cares! It's still 30-50% more powerful than xbox one

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

consoles were never known to be the most powerful gaming machines on the market. they compete with other consoles but that's it. it's the developers that make the games impressive. you don't need a lot of power to get good results.

[Hammtweezy2192]

When you put the game in your PS4, pc, or xbox and turn it on, do you enjoy it? Does it entertain you and your friends? If the answer is yes then that is all that matters.

[PersonMan]

Truth of the matter is... hardware doesn't make the games.

[Father__Merrin]

consoles will never top the 1% of PC users that have 780's and other high end equipment (according to steam stats)

[MRMagoo123]

Yeh but the pc elitists will all claim titans in sli lol, yet most have very average pcs like a gtx 750 with an i5 2.9ghz which would struggle to get anything close to a new console performance wise. Any one and everyone knows a top end pc will do better but that's because you have to pay 5 times more to get one. Comparing pc to console is just plain dumb and shows the insecurity of the pc elite.

[Subaruwrx]

An honest appraisal of the hardware by a console brand's employee - very refreshing. No PR bs. That said, I agree with those who've said that you can't compare PC's to consoles. Fixed spec consoles just can't be compared to a platform where the specs wildly vary.

[Artemidorus]

There is no question you will see improvements like previous generations.

[Agent_hitman]

“Squeezing 5-10 years of performance improvements out of a fixed hardware platform is what console programmers do best!,” Stratton

This.

[CervantesPR]

i dont care just give me games

[madpuppy]

I've gamed on PC's for years, Consoles only really started getting good towards the end of the PS2 era. Now, it is only a matter of taste what you like to game on, I Like my PC and I like my Console, they fill their own roles, There is nothing wrong saying that the PS4 or Xbone are powerful within the context of their own ecosystem. Everyone Knows that a well built gaming PC is more powerful than static built consoles, and constantly jabbering about it in the comment section of a Console article just makes you look like an ignoramus.

That is similar to a console gamer commenting on PC centric articles about ease of use, using a controller and sitting a comfy couch while playing games....over and over again.

[xActionBasturdx]

I bought my ps4 for games...not to drool over how good it looks...hell if that was the case i would have invested in a pc long ago. But just about all sony exclusives are on available on their console which is why i shall remain a console gamer

[Masta Kaos]

I think everything on the shelves is outdated......Even your super crazy PC is outdated.

[Scatpants]

The only thing I'm kind of bummed out about on the new consoles is that neither has the power to really adequately run VR. I'm wondering what kind of concessions they're going to have to make for Morpheus.

[Scatpants]

If I get rich I'm going to build a monster PC and run 3 monitors except with projectors so that driving games and space shooters will look crazy.

[ps5fanboy]

So basically ,have adequate hardware and amazing developers, pushing the envelope for five to ten years, is better than having a rig built for ten grand and having no special software/coders that will ever likely optimise it , let's be honest if the next gen came in five years , then the top line PC of now would have to wait till the next gen console comes before they see games jump on the PC platform , yeah cross gen at higher resolution is nice as is better frame rate , but I'm talking about seeing games featuring next, next graphical tools and outsets , save maybe one or two special PC titles pushing out the boat graphically over those ,hypothetically speaking, five years or more , the console will lead the way on outdated hardware due to optimisation and game funding for the massive console marketing.

[busytoad]

Oh crap the Pc tards came out of their mom's basement's and are posting. Calm down tards you can stick with your parents allowence pc's it will be ok, us console users are laughing at this post lol.

Lol its from a site i never even herd of lmfao...gamingbolt.com lol who the fuk are they???