Sony boss talks game consoles and PS Now as a possible PS4 successor

Looking forward though, PlayStation Europe head Jim Ryan spoke about a time that could potentially see the gaming industry without physical gaming consoles.

[theXtReMe1]

I'm not sure about anybody else, but I really don't want a time when we don't have physical consoles. The Internet infrastructure around the world just isn't good enough to support it. That and imagine trying to stream a 4K game without lag or delay. How are they going to accomplish that when they can barely do it with 1080p movies via Netflix?

Until the Internet backbone is based off a terabit system, that can support simultaneous upload and download speeds at a constant rate to everybody around the world... I believe this is just a pipe dream. Sort of like cloud computation. Which I believe requires a total renovation of the Internet infrastructure. Something that isn't going to happen anytime soon, probably not within the next 20 or 30 years if not more. I guess only time will tell, I would rather be able to play my games at constant performance levels, then to have to worry about the Internet being up and being able to stream them without faulter. Especially with tens, if not hundreds of millions of people playing at any one time.

[iamnsuperman]

It won't happen. The problem is tech seems to be advancing much more quickly than countries can improve their infrastructure. It is just too costly to lay down cables to keep up with current hardware.

[gangsta_red]

You're kidding right? Their are a number of countries who's infrastructure can more than support this.

Look at Steam and it's many users around the world. And Steam should be considered just as big of a platform as PS4 or Xbox One. It is successful and deals in all digital games.

Cable and internet companies are already spending BILLIONS upgrading their lines and laying them down. You see the growing popularity of Hulu, Netflix and other services that deal with streaming. Networks see this and are also investing, not to mention the rise of set top boxes that feature ON Demand shows and now even games, all streamed.

To say this "won't' happen is very ignorant and super shake of the head worthy.

Edit:
But Steam is an all digital service and cable companies are already investing in streaming as well as other companies.

Like I said, their are many countries (especially ones that have high video game users) that have the capability to do exactly what you think isn't possible. And These huge billion dollar companies are preparing sooner than you think for an all digital future.

[iamnsuperman]

@gangsta_red

What are you talking about. Steam doesn't stream games. I am replying to a comment about a user not wanting physical consoles to go not physical media. Physical console won't go as nothing is capable of replacing it and especially quick enough. Internet is upgrading (very slowly) but look at hardware upgrades. We are already talking about 4K videos and such and the hardware is there for that. But the internet isn't. No where near that (especially not in a streaming capability) nor can it catch up (because releasing hardware is a lot quicker and easier to do than relay cables). It isn't ignorant just realistic

[darthv72]

The future of gaming entertainment, streaming to non game-centric devices has always been on the minds of these companies. the technology is evolving to that point where it will be attainable to anyone with the right conditions. the drawback is the quality will always be at the mercy of the parts in between A and B (A being the source and B the destination).

When streaming movies (on demand, netflix) first started out, it was DVD quality but we knew it would improve over time. and it certainly has. But that is a movie where it is very linear and it too is subjected to the quality of equipment between A & B.

The biggest growth to internet infrastructure has not come from the laying of cables but the building of towers to wirelessly distribute connections to people even in rural areas. Wired is much faster than wireless but from a larger perspective, wireless has the cost effectiveness that wired cant support.

If sony were to be planning a PS5 or 6 in the sense that it be more if a set top box. It would very likely be fully designed to take advantage of PS Now. Onlive may have tried to do something ahead of the curve but that doesnt mean the idea wasnt sound.

[donthate]

Wouldn't this be far more disgusting type of DRM than what MS cooked up?

For the love of God, please do not mess up the Playstation brand with their success being PS Now. That would be a terrible experience!

My internet is good, but it is never going to be consistently good with relatively high bandwidth and very low latency, which is what PS Now would require! Also, the video compression artifacts is hurting my eyes.

Looking at a 1080p image with compression artifacts is worse than looking at a clean 480p image.

As an addition, PS Now is a good idea when they stop ripping you off. As a replacement, it would be horrible.

[Godz Kastro]

I don't know why you got disagrees but this is a fact. I work in the transport industry and although I do see our company offering much higher bandwidth its still a long time before we can support this.

Improving you infrastructure is not cheap!

[ABizzel1]

@iamsuperman

It's going to happen. The question is just when, and will Sony be prepared to handle the upkeep. Video streaming services like Netflix were the start, Onlive and Gaikai already did it with games, and the PlayStation 4 is already introducing us to the future of PlayStation with PSNow.

That being said it's not going to happen for at least another generation. The requirement for streaming a 4k video is 25Mbps, an even then the quality is sketchy (over 1080p, but still not as clear as 4k should be). 25Mbps is over 6x the world wide average internet speed.

So when the PS5 launches, it'll be in a similar boat as the PS4, with all PS5 games being retail or download, with PSNow adding Vita and PS4 games for streaming.

This isn't going to be an issue until the PS6 at the earliest. Many Asian countries are ready, some EU countries are ready, but until the US is ready (which its just starting to happen here) PSNow won't take over the PS brand completely. But soon as the US is on board, you can bet it's going to be at the forefront of their next console.

@YouAreSalty

There's a difference between DRM, and restrictive DRM. MS efforts were completely restrictive DRM, and basically monopolized what consumers did with games even after they bought them.

PSNow is Sony's service, and in it's current form, no one would want a PS5 that was PSNow only. On the flip side this where services like Netflix succeed, having subscription models and unlimited access across multiple devices, if priced fair it's acceptable, although the option for physical should still be there.

[donthate]

biz:

Explain to me how MS DRM is "restrictive DRM"?

The whole point of DRM is for it to be restrictive and MS effort was to give you as much as possible the same rights as you do with a physical disc namely:

* ability to TRADE in your digital game
* ability to GIVE, LEND and GIFT away your digital game

The only drawback from todays standard was you had to check in once every 24-hours, which is quite reasonable considering everything else.

PS Now would make the ultimate DRM in the sense that it completely restricts you to ONLY playing when connected and ONLY when you have a stable, high bandwidth and low latency internet connection.

PS Now would make the ULTIMATE RESTRICTIVE DRM we have seen.

[BitbyDeath]

You are not alone in that, 10's of millions of people still buy physical copies. While these numbers exist you will not see digital only coming in, to do so will be corporate suicide.

[ATi_Elite]

ha ha ha it's coming!

it's easier for these console manufactures to just use teh assets of the PC instead of wasting billions on building consoles and have gamers buy digital games.

hell just look at this Gen, 90% of console titles are on PC anyway.

also you wouldn't have to worry about a game not being 1080p 60fps because it would depend on your
hardware.

Perma connection to the internet will deter Piracy and if you want a Physical copy of your game then just BURN a copy. Ghee whiz it's not hard.

[Somebody]

In a way it's sweet irony. Console fans complained about the high cost and buggy PC gaming experience but all the while those dedicated PC gamers shrugged off those problems and helped to create PC hardware that MS and Sony later can cherry picked for new consoles.

Several years ago console fans said PC gaming is bad because they have to wait for games to be installed. Now, installing games into the hard drive is fast becoming an industry standard in console gaming.

At the moment I'm upgrading my desktop PC and migrating my games between devices is such a breeze. Plug in an external drive, copy and paste the Steam folder, activate. The only problems are my Origin and Uplay games-they don't offer any easy backup options(one of the reasons why I have 200+ Steam games while only 4-6 Origin and Uplay games).

[incendy35]

Wow, if that is Sony's plan... I am out. All that no DRM talk, when really they are planning for a DRM only future.

[iamnsuperman]

Well that isn't the plan at all

"I certainly don’t want to, and wouldn’t, use the term PlayStation 5. But as a significant component of our means to get PlayStation experiences into the hands of as many people as possible, absolutely. Potentially"

This is what they are doing now. Releasing hardware but also using PS Now as a way to touch other consumers who don't want to spend money on expensive hardware (really the only way to do that is to stream). I have said this before but PS Now isn't really for you or I nor will it ever be. To be honest I see Now as Sony's other thing (because it would be mad to go for another handheld)

[Hk85karlsson]

Nice try buddy boy. Nice try. It's the wrong company we're talking about here. Just a friendly heads up =)

[BitbyDeath]

1. You were never in.
2. You never read the article/trying to troll others who don't read it.

[Spotie]

Why even pretend?

[DigitalRaptor]

You're on an absolute trolling frenzy today mate.

Any sign that you were once balanced on this site has long gone. You were once an "indie developer", with a balanced outlook on the industry and now you've just advanced from stealth troll mode to full-on troll.

No one believes you have a PS4, and of course, you were never in.

[Sayburr]

Yep, just as I thought. PS Now is the Sony future. Imagine, you purchase a TV and it comes with a controller. You can then purchase a game that resides in the cloud that streams right to your TV. Everyone that buys a TV will have access to the games, talk about enhancing the market, that would do it big time.

[iamnsuperman]

Like I said in my reply on the first comment it will never become totally that way. That will always be an option (PS Now is positioning themselves that way which could possibly mean Sony moves away from handhelds and does this instead) but hardware is advancing at a faster rate (and will always will advance at a faster rate) than countries can lay capable cables (it is vastly expensive and isn't a major priority)

Edit: @below Streaming movies is completely different to streaming games. Not only is streaming movies less intensive but gaming requires low latency. Streams can buffer gaming can't. Streaming gaming needs to be an instant thing. Considering how quickly hardware increases and how quickly the internet takes to upgrade it is a safe bet it will never be the norm format. Just look on how big games have got

[tuglu_pati]

Its funny how you are pretty sure it will never happen... ok. Whether you like it or not that is direction everything is going. Take movies as an example where streaming services are taking over the industry. Its a fact that we all love our physical media but unfortunately its gonna slowly disappear whether we like it or not.

[Sayburr]

You sir, may be correct. I am sure Sony will make a PS5, they would be foolish to throw money away. But, as soon as they announced PS Now I could foresee a future where every TV included it. No hard drive needed, no extra box, and no additional cables to the TV. Just include a controller and let it stream.

How many casuals would pay $400 extra to play games when they can do so with the equipment they have? ...of course, that brings to question how big is the casual market?

Also, at the moment, there is no incentive for internet providers to "up their game". Too expensive and not enough of a return on investment. Until there is competition to force them to make a change, it will remain as it is. however, PS Now is designed for current internet...

[caseh]

I agree with iamsuperman on this.

Most people are missing the fact that streaming movies is perfectly acceptable, it buffers. Games on the other hand simply don't work like that. It will be somewhat competent and you can adapt to it but some games will simply be pointless due to the latency.

No matter how much core infrastructure is upgraded, the tech simply isn't there to improve on fibre. It can be touted as 'super fast' or whatever but the fact is unless the kit you're connecting to for your services is local, the latency is always going to be present.

[tuglu_pati]

@Caseh

I agree, but we are talking about 8-10 years down the road. I mean not too long ago we were still accessing the internet via dial up and look how much the technology has progressed, this is something that will happen and if you pay close attention its something all this companies are pushing for the future. Maybe not for the PS5 but saying it will never happen like iamnsuperman mentioned is just inacurate

[gangsta_red]

Of course this is the case. All that talk about no DRM was just a great PR stunt that catapulted Sony off the serious stupid blunder that the idiot big wigs of MS made. But there was no secret prior to that event that all big devs and publishers want an all digital future.

These big guns want to control their product and keep their profits to themselves and PSNow and other future endeavors from other companies (EA Access)are the starting road to just that.

That is exactly why Sony is throwing out and tweaking prices and getting feedback. They want to see what the level of comfort their users will have of not being screwed too much when eventually their games will go all digital.

MS already did this with paying to play online. Sony followed with online passes but eventually went with the MS route. They knew gamers would complain but would fall in line.

I wonder if this will be accepted or will gamers stand up for their rights as they keep saying around here when MS snatches a third party exclusive?

[MegaRay]

PS5 as a internet service? HECK NO (and yes I read the article and he dont want to that too wohoo)

[BG11579]

Totally agree with you. This is not the future of gaming that I want. That would be a huge mistake.
If it comes to PS now service or any other Cloud based service, then I'll go elsewhere. This would be worse then DRM.
Glad to know they don't want this...

[Roccetarius]

I can just imagine the suits laughing their way to the bank, while they count the money from people not knowing better. Look forward to a future of no ownership, nor control over your playing habits.

[Illusive_Man]

Go ahead and do it, Microsoft will win next gen easily.

[DigitalRaptor]

So are you coincidentally admitting that Microsoft has lost this gen to Sony?

Do tell me more…

[MasterCornholio]

I believe that Sony will do both though for the PS5. What I mean by this is have a physical console for those so want to buy physical copies or dont have a good internet connection and PSNow will be used to stream PS5 games to those who dont want to buy a console to play them. This in my opinion is the best way to do this because the hardcore will be satisfied with the console and the casuals can enjoy the occasional PS5 game from their smart TV.

[HanzoHattori]

How would game streaming replace console gaming? Not everyone has access to a high speed data network and the other problem is how would gamers access Playstation games? Will Sony create a device to connect to a television or would access be gained by PC? What will the service be like? Will there be digital downloads like Steam or will the service be completely based on streaming? I don't think the console is going the way of the dinosaur at least for the next 20 to 30 years. By then, technology will have caught up to these ideas.

[LAWSON72]

The day dedicated gaming hardware becomes a thing of the past is when I retire to my old systems.

[DougLord]

Hahahahaha. Now watch all the Sony Bullies have to switch gears and say, the cloud will be great on PS4, just not on Xbox. It's like the PS Now sharing "feature" is mind blowing, but when Xbox was going to do it it was DRM BS.

[DigitalRaptor]

I wish the one-bubble Xbox fanboys made more sense on this site, but I think I'm beating a dead horse there.

Had you read the exact quote from the article, it doesn't mention anything about Sony wanting or planning to follow this route. There's no world where Sony forgoes physical and the only option is digital streaming. Consumers don't want it, Sony knows they don't want to be cornered in. Microsoft didn't understand this, and have (possibly) learned from their attempts to corner the market and control it.
-----

Regarding "the cloud":

You do realise that Sony's cloud STREAMING tech was already proven with Gaikai and OnLive like 2 years ago? We know what Sony is being upfront about when they market their technology as a service. PS Now is literally working and proven.

Microsoft's "cloud" was used to market their system without any solid proof or advantages. They literally said that it would make their hardware more powerful and the exact claim was "4 times as powerful". They are basically selling you a console, using the buzzword "cloud" to entice (and deceive) consumers with sweet nothings that won't even be a valid, tangible presentable benefit for a good number of years, and even longer for most consumers' Internet connections.

It's almost like everything goes way over your head. Your comment is just a bitter, confused mess of fanboyish misunderstandings.

[maniacmayhem]

Digital, of course Sony isn't going to admit that this is the route they want to take. But you can't be so blind as to see this is the direction everyone, not just video game companies, want and are going.

I said way back when PSNow was announced that this was the foundation of an all digital future. Sony, just like I am sure everyone else is laying the groundwork now so they can make the transition smoothly and less painless and I am certain that even though consumers won't like it they will go along with it.

Consumers didn't want to pay to play online, and it's now a norm on both of the most popular platforms. Consumers didn't want to pay $60 for new games but this is also the norm for almost every game no matter how much content is included.

I am certain that the transition into all digital will be just as slick and necessary so that some may make a fuss but will brush it off with whatever defense saying they had when they were told paying to play online is mandatory. What other options will gamers have?

[DarkZane]

This is something that should be done in like 30 years. Today, Internet connections aren't reliable enough. Plus, too many people have a monthly bandwidth or their connection is too slow. Hell, a lot of people don't even have an Internet connection.

[madjedi]

Good luck getting the digital is the future types to look beyond their own surroundings and realize not everywhere in the world has top tier Internet options.

[chaosx]

PS Now is the future…… thats why they only showed the DS4 and camera at the original reveal… and the PS4 reveal they showed an empty shell case.

[madjedi]

No it's because they had not yet finalized the design till after february.

[chaosx]

Sorry , don't want to get into disagreement , but Sony this gen wanted the next PS to be PS Now , there was no need to have a box , all the next Gen games when they shipped were not native 1080p so they could be streamed to existing current and future Sony hardware.

Thats why they had the controller made and ready to ship and the DS4 can be used on so many devices out of the box.

Give it 20 years and the truth will come out in someones memoirs.

[Dragonopolis]

The problem with the streaming services is that they are trying to sell the Idea with old technology. This is why I believe Onlive really failed. The hardware at the server end should have been running at Ultra-PC specs running new games that blow our mind both visually and mentally. Instead, Onlive stream last generation games most gamers already played as well as some current games but not at ultra settings - even 720p with Ultra settings can be impressive visually since resolution makes up a small portion of the whole visual package.

Think about it..... if a hundred people paid $30 a month for 10 months would be $30,000. Lets say we put that money all into a PC. $5000 GPU which we would also need a really powerful CPU (including motherboard)... lets say $5000 = $10,000.... throw $5000 toward a super duper audio co-processor that not only handles sound for all 100 gamers it would handle Chat services perhaps voice recognition as well - taking the load off the main cpu (Perhaps a video co-processor as well to cover video broadcasting/encoding and decoding.

That leaves us $15,000 left for power-supply, Volatile memory (RAM), lots of fast non-volatile ram for storage (or to save money large SSDs Raid together), Routers and Switches, server rack, cables. Lets say this Super PC with $15,000 worth of GPU,CPU,A/V co-processor takes 1200 watts to run. Seems inefficient but remember 100 people are using this one Super PC so divide 1200 watts by 100 is 12 watts per person pretty efficient when compared to 100 individual consoles or PCs. Of course all of this is pure speculation and fun but not yet currently feasible for us to build one PC capable of running 100+ individually intensive games/programs at the same time at 4k resolution or even 1080p.

However..... might be able to pull off "one" dedicated game; Open-world type game. To do that $30,000 Super PC would have to be able to at the very least handle/track and broadcast/stream 1000 free moving cameras in game.

Still a daunting task, but feasible, since that is easier than trying to run hundreds or thousands of full games at the same time. Another reason for 1000 or more is cost. $30,000 Super PC divided by 1000 is a one time payment of $30 to pay it off or $3 per person for 10 months. That is feasible for a MMO open-world game with a $15 to $20 per month service fee plus the initial cost of the game.

The Real Problem: video compression technology - still in its infancy. 4k is going to be the standard for years to come so the focus should be on finding a way to compress 4k video to 2-4mbps over the internet. This will leave room for audio/video and whatever else needs to be sent. As of right now, Playstation Now is only broadcasting up to 720p - no better than Onlive (that has been out for years with up to 720p broadcasting). Even under current compression, 1080p takes up to much bandwidth; which would seriously cut out a lot of potential internet users (and makes all of them internet providers nervous).

Ha.... had fun dreaming and blabbing about the Cloud streaming technology.... like it or not ...it is going to be the future. Playstation Now needs a subscription service. The current pricing structure is the only thing holding me back; playing old last generation games at 720p..... Just to expensive the way Sony is going about the pricing right now.