"So as most of us took this unfortunately departed weekend to unwind from the week, one man took his time to carefully lay out his personal experiences in a romantic relationship with the creator of the fantastic Depression Quest, Zoe Quinn. If you haven’t read the story yet, Quinn allegedly cheated on the author with multiple people while sending him into a spiral where he couldn’t tell if he was being paranoid or something was wrong. Whether or not the story is true is far from the point. As it stands, it is an incredibly personal matter that really shouldn’t be on the Internet for all to see. But this is 2014 and if you can even slightly be considered a public figure, expect your dirty laundry to be draped in the open with a spotlight on it." - David Rhinehart of Geekenstein
While many people familiar with Zoe Quinn’s history of duplicity were initially highly skeptical of the allegations, reporter Anna Slatz at The Post Millenial was the first to report on the inconsistencies in an article titled Zoe Quinn’s allegations are falling apart.
She has blood on her hands! So does ResetEra. People were making posts saying I hope he gets what he deserves right before he took his life. Evil parasites
The games media websites need to recognise the role they all played.
They all wrote about Zoe Quinn's claims without using proper journalistic standards of objectivity - instead, they wrote about the allegations as if they were proven facts. Why? It is okay for individuals on the internet to have an opinion and believe one side or the other but it's not okay for a professional 'journalism' website. This led to mounting pressure on a vulnerable guy who was being attacked by everyone on the internet, EVERY website, no individual spoke up for him.
Alec Howloka was a troubled guy who in his past interviews always came across a good natured. The poor guy was abused as a child, and the recent tweets reveal he was submissive in the relationship.
Polygon.com contacted the husband and wife team that ALEC had hired to help him make Night in the Woods and Polygon effectively asked them 'what are you going to do?' They then parted with Alec and he killed himself. Two days later his former friend and colleague wrote a long post condemning Alec. Disgusting human beings.
People came out of the woodwork to attack him and promote their brand and websites.
But the problem is that if and when allegations come out about somebody else, individuals and the games media will pile in without professionalism attacking the character of an individual. What happened to Alec must never happen again.
So, Mr Pumblechook, a lot of the people who knew and worked with Alec agreed with and supported Zoe - including Alec's own sister.
But, you and the other internet Sherlocks who've never met anyone involved, know different..
@ginganinja. You misunderstand the point of my post completely - this is not about you or I taking sides with the alleged abuser or the alleged victim. This is about the games media recognising that they should report on allegations - but must do so professionally. The reporters on these games websites were not witnesses to the relationship but by declaring one vulnerable person guilty he likely saw no path to clear his name. In actual newspapers in the UK, real newspapers would not be allowed to that as it is considered both ethically and likely legally wrong. If the games websites had reported this story with balance rather than writing as if he was guilty (as is right in real journalism) he might have felt brave enough to release a statement.
@Mr P
Firstly, the sites I've seen (such as kotaku, IGN, PC gamer, etc. not blogs or bedroom youtubers) just covered the stories as is. Laid out who accused who of what and didn't pass judgement.
Secondly, have you ever read a UK tabloid ?
You'll struggle to buy a Sun in Liverpool because of all the BS it wrote about Hillsborough.
You can't use the Daily Fail as a source on Wikipedia because it's so unreliable and prone to sensationalist BS.
UK tabloids can be just as trashy as any other country's tabloids so I totally disagree with that. . Just look as recently as when Rahim sterling exposed their hypocrisy in regards to race. . . .
But in regards to this women she's clearly told a fib or twm. just because the guy wasn't perfect there's no need to pile on crap to justify the assumption of guilt. Some sites were just point scoring and tried to paint themselves as 'for the victims' . . . .bs. . .report fairly or don't report at all. An inspector calls springs to mind here
There 100% needs to be legal ramifications for people who make false/misleading accusations that lead to ANY loss of the accused. Whether that's financial/reputational loss from being fired or all the way at the extreme that someone harms themselves or ends their life.
Any sane person obviously wants victims of abuse to have justice, but the scale has been tipped all the way to other side now, it doesn't even matter if there's evidence anymore. All it takes is an accusation and you're pre-judged as guilty by court of public opinion.
Enough is enough, we need reasonable middle ground. If you abuse someone, you go to jail. But also if you accuse someone falsely you should go to jail because it ruins and costs lives as much as abusing someone does, they need to be treated equally.
Edit: I normally keep things factual/logical, but this genuinely pisses me off so im allowing this one personal rant through. Look at the absolute STATE of her too. That "I'm invincible and can do what i want" look, you can tell from a 1,000 paces she loves to abuse double standards to further her own agenda on a daily basis. Stay away from f***ing cretins like this and show them no more attention. What a monster of a human being to contribute to a person death like this.
Making false claims is a civil offense, and there are laws for it. In some cases, the damages may be more extreme than what can be recovered financially...like in cases where people lose their job or ability to maintain their way of life. But it's really rare for it to be a criminal offense, and requires more than what quinn did, and is usually prosecuted as part of a bigger criminal fraud case.
Victims of abuse can get justice, and while it isnt as easy to get justice as it should be...same as many crimes really...these kinds of accusations being about informing are spreading the idea that there is no way to get justice otherwise. The first step would be to call the police, or visit any number of free public or private services that help abuse victims for free.
Unfortunately, the legal system doesn't move as fast as the world does though. There have been an increasing number of cases in the past few years of false accusations leading to ruining a person's life, or potentially leading to deaths, so it may be something lawmakers start to try and look into. It becomes hard in the internet age though, because with everything being online, it almost requires a federal law since a lot of accusations are across state lines, and then of course there are international laws which would have to be accounted for.
There is no easy fix for the law itself I'm afraid. But while these things may take time to be remedied, any victim of abuse should seek aid. There are many sources which can refer you to who you need to speak to, and if one cant help, ask somewhere else. It isnt until everyone is saying they cant do something that people should seek other forms of recourse if they feel they've been wronged.
Well said. I forgot what she looked like since that GamerGate thing all those years ago, and wow, she just inherently looks like a stuck up piece of shit by default. What a terrible waste of oxygen. Every time her name pops up it's ALWAYS something negative attached, a controversy.
Kind of a shame that it took so long for someone in the press to point it out.
I dont know if the press is giving her as much attention as they did years ago, and she seems more like she living off Twitter fame, but the press is at a point where they have to probably distance themselves from her. I havent seen any ardent defense of her actions in a long time, and it usually is just some report about whatever claim she makes. But at the same time, i haven't seen the press also taking accountability for making her relevant(relatively speaking) as they made her in the first place. Doing so would only implicate then in their own failings as journalists in the whole gamergate thing, and we all know they arent going to do that.
In the end, many of the things she and those like her ushered in have left lasting effects on the game industry and press, and has changed the landscape about what is talked about when it comes to games. Many of us in the community see this, and dont like it. Worse, their actions have led to talented people being pushed out of the industry because they decided to create something they wanted to create. It's a shame that they were ever allowed to get so much influence, or that the gaming press has ever gotten so much influence over the industry or games that get made.
I never believed her story, it always seemed inconsistent, nonsensical, and like attention seeking. I'm happy that there are actually some real journalists who are willing to do research rather than simply hang a guy based on a headline.
I implore every gaming journalist who has ever written a story about this to dig deep and do the research because you all contributed to a man dying. Every headline that judged Holowka before the facts were out and the story assessed contributed. Every person who immediately condemned the man and ran to Quinn's defense as if every word of her shaky story was granite fact. The fellow developers and former friends who immediately turned on him, trashed him, and quit his team. You all contributed. A man is dead. Her story is being proven as bullshit. You better hope for a smoking gun that miraculously proves her right because if this story is indeed bullshit and a man is dead because it, all of you cowards deserve to burn. Shameful.
Even IF her story is true, which i very much doubt, this is a tragic result regardless. Is this how we handle serious legal matters in 2019? Use Twitter to drive a man to suicide? This crazy bitch is wrong any way you slice it. Go to the police, seek justice through legal avenues and use facts and evidence to support your case. This whole situation is a travesty and it makes me sick.
"While Marvel and Vertigo author Zoe Quinn"
Marvel and Vertigo? She got that kind of job? Are these people serious? Jesus man.
His blood is on her hands and she needs to pay the price, if this was a male developer he'd have his head on a spike by now.
She/anyone who does this should face jail time or at least a massive fine. They must be punished if found they're lying and attempting to destroy someone's life.
James Gunn made crude jokes on twitter more than 10 years ago and gets the boot.
But cretins like this who make false claims about sexual abuse and contribute to a person taking their own life get jobs in media because they are "brave" and "progressive". It almost makes me physically sick that industry's love this kind of person and are seemingly oblivious to double standards.
What gets me is that this keeps happening. How many more suicides or ruined careers is it going to take for these people to realise that baseless accusations are a serious matter and can destroy someone.
She working for DC Comics now her upcoming comic is Dona Troy turning into joker!
I got to say I'm heartened by the biggest show in solidarity N4G has ever seen on this issue. Perhaps the tide is turning. I'm hopeful but not optimistic. Nice to see people agreeing on such an important issue.
I doubt it. N4G is generally against people like her, outside some that want to antagonize people. But, the press will do whatever they want to keep making headlines, and they won't take any accountability for their part in their careless reporting. This will blow over like it always does, and about the best we can probably hope for is that the press won't give her any attention in the future. She fled from twitter after Holowka's suicide, but knowing her, she will not be able to stay away from the attention it gets her when she goes through one of her phases of needing to feel important.
She's obviously depressed and bipolar based on her attitudes and other reports from other people she's had relationships with, and people like that can't really stay away for very long.
Yeah agreed rainslacker. I meant maybe the tide turning in the media away from attention seeking nut jobs but point taken.
So good to see common sense prevail in this community but the video game media has been absolutely hijacked by people with social justice agendas lately and that comes at a huge cost.
Night in the Woods creator, Alec Holowka has been accused of abuse by fellow game developer, Zoe Quinn, creator of Depression Quest.
This is an awful situation. It's not right if I or any other un-related person uses our personal feelings to determine innocence or guilt; public opinion and social media must not be used to determine the role of either party, the best thing is to involve the police and let this go to trial. People on the internet shouldn't attack or abuse her or him.
It's important to let the courts get involved because sometimes the internet can wrongly condemn a person.
YouTuber Andy Signore had an allegation of sexual misconduct made against him by a woman he was in a relationship with. He had many on the internet condemn him and he was fired from his job. Fortunately for him, proof was discovered that disproved the allegations and Defy Media settled a lawsuit he bought against them paying him an undisclosed amount of compensation.
Speaking generally, the law is not perfect but police and lawyers do everything they can to get justice for victims of sexual assault so it's important that victims get the police involved to start proceedings.
While I agree that police should be involved, or at least some authority depending on the situation, when someone goes to social media as a first resort, or before retaining a lawyer, then it calls the whole accusation into question.
I understand the need to have support, but people need to realize that anonymous people on the internet are not a proper or sufficient support group.
That said, leaving all bias aside, when someone has been exposed as propagating false claims in the past, and has made extreme exaggerations about the treatment they received from a community to try and vilify that same community, anything brought to social media is going to bring even more unwanted attention.
My guess, having watched Quinn in the past, she will use that as yet another reason to vilify the community, thus devaluing the claim. Whether it's true or not is rather inconsequential when it comes to social media.
That said, you talk about the law, but my wife is a lawyer who has seen more cases fall apart because people take these things to social media prematurely, or at all. First thing she would tell any of her clients is to not talk in public forums about it.
@rainslacker
'leaving all bias aside' - proceeds to be biased as fu..
If you read through the replies to her tweets there's several other people making similar accusations against the same person.
It's strange how everybody here is 'doubtful' of her story, yet believed everything her ex said without question all those years ago (even still, when large parts of it have proven to be bs).
I'm not saying I'm leaving bias aside, just that the following sentiment is based on the practical nature of how people react to others. My personal feelings about it are that no one deserves to be abused, but I don't really just take quinn at her word, because she is the very definition of a drama queen, and has purposefully made statements to discredit others, and get attention for herself. Her history is against her, but if she has valid proof, and wants more than just to cause public outrage towards this person for whatever reason like she's done in the past, then there are much better outlets of recourse than going to twitter to defame someone.
I'm personally not taking a side with either of them about who did what. I don't know this holowka guy, and never heard of him before. I also wouldn't really listen to any twitter reply support either. It's not conclusive of anything.
All I can say is that taking it to twitter doesn't do anything but spread trouble. There's a pervasive idea that nothing can be done about this, so some people don't seek real justice. All I know is that people who run to twitter to accuse and try someone in the court of public opinion often ruin any chance they ever had at getting justice. A public trial proving this would mean something. A bunch of he said/she said, means nothing, regardless of supposed witnesses who have not been verified in the least.
In any case, I question if this is even gaming news. This was a personal relationship between a game developer and a self proclaimed game developer. It's one thing if this is happening within a studio, and that may have some effect on a game, but in this case, that's not the case.
@rain...
Have you ever considered that all your beliefs about her are founded on nothing but bs. What if their was a wolf every time and you were just too blinded by the internet rabble to see?
You take every allegation against her as gospel despite any proof, yet are unwilling to believe in this case despite corroborating stories from colleagues and others in the business.
@ginganinja
"It's strange how everybody here is 'doubtful' of her story, yet believed everything her ex said without question all those years ago"
Let's just address the elephant in the room which is CON. Her organisation which only cares about you if you're a big name public figure and was shown to actually be guilty of doing the sort harrassment they claim to be fighting against. Also well known for telling people to not go to the police which is the dumbest advice you can possibility give.
The story she's tweeting about could be 100% true. But If you're trying to say she's not equivalent to a Gloria Allred in regard to her desperate levels of attention seeking, by injecting herself whenever possible into a story then you need to rethink your position.
What exactly does she claim? She says the two dated and she was staying with him and then goes on to lambaste him for being a controlling jerk with mental issues. She vaguely mentions sexual assault and claims someone saw it and he threatened her Visa or wouldn't pay for her plane ticket home? Am i missing something? I dug a little, but am i missing the smoking gun? They were dating, he was manic, and she vaguely refers to some sexual assault or..? Idk..
Were they dating while she claims he assaulted her or was it at the office? Were they broken up? She says she flew home and emailed him a breakup letter. Wtf? This makes no sense. She was assaulted but didn't breakup until after she flew home and she was assaulted while she was living with him? So he assaulted his girlfriend?
Why is she going on Twitter as opposed to the authorities? This woman seems off in the way she describes things, almost petty in some cases. She denigrates him for berating her for the tone in her voice once. You accuse the man of sexual assault and you drone on in the same paragraph about how he reprimanded you about your bitchy tone? That seems petty, why bring it up?
I have no idea what happened, but Quinn has a tainted past and this series of tweets appears strange.
Replies(1)Since when did twitter become the place to air out your dirty laundry? If your boyfriend is abusive you need to call the law. Posting the shit on twitter just screams shady attention whore. Trying to make some indie developer look like Harvey Weinstein lol.
The best part is how she says he stuck his fingers in her then walked around her around the house as if this was a consensual thing.
I can't take accusations like these seriously. Report it to the authorities, not on a Tumblr/Twitter post. All this does is send an angry mob of idiots to attack who you're accusing, it's happened before. This isn't how things of this matter should be dealt with, it isn't brave, it's reckless.
That’s not how it works. You can’t prove this sort of thing legally and she’s not interested in him being criminally liable. People want to move on, but people also want to protect others from the same happening. It’s very good to speak up about stuff like this to shine a light on behaviours that keep happening.
You seriously think people are supposed to report things like this at the time when the whole account relies on one person controlling the other and breaking them down?
That's exactly how it works, because that's how the legal system works. Unfortunately for the victims, something like this is closer to libel than anything else. No one said it was easy, but if you can't gather the courage to speak up in a timely manner then no one can help you.
Innocent until proven guilty is the way we operate. If a court of law can't pass a verdict, then he is innocent, unfortunately. Thus, this is libel seeking to incite mob justice. A better way to protect others is to talk about how you should ask for help when it happens, so people actually have a chance to find justice.
SuperRaccoon
" If a court of law can't pass a verdict, then he is innocent, unfortunately" You lost me with the word "unfortunately". It's not "unfortunately", it's fortunately otherwise it would be anarchy and chaos.
@mix you're a demented person. Wake up or someday your assumption of guilt will bite back.
Bullshit. Stop spreading this ignorance. Going to the authorities will give you an infinitely higher chance of getting justice than just saying something on Twitter. If she doesn't even try, then that's wrong. The police, and her lawyer if she retains one, and any prosecutor, would tell her to not go around telling everyone her story. That only hinders any investigation.
There are ways to prove abuse through systematic investigation, and outside some really rare cases, there is always some evidence, or witness, even if after the fact. Even if it seems that the evidence is thin, it can lead to much more if the person actually did abuse someone because abusive people typically aren't abusive only to one person in their life.
I wouldn't think this is Quinn trying to protect others, because her history doesn't support anything more than her being a self-serving drama queen. All she wants is attention, and even if this is something that's true, her own actions in the past, on Twitter no less, make any accusation she makes instantly questionable. If she wants to protect others, then try to do it right and get his ass thrown in jail, or at least have an official public record of it. Even if she doesn't get justice, at least if he does it again, which abusive people usually do, there will be an official record of it to give the potential the next person can get justice. Sex offenders, which some of this abuse would be classified as, are never going to be free of people knowing what they did. With Twitter, what he did will be a distant memory in the near future.
But, what it comes down to is that she has tons of resources that don't involve going on Twitter and publicly shaming someone. She is trying to try this man in the court of public opinion, and the public is irrational and never bothers to know the facts. I'd take attempted and failed justice over public shaming which will achieve nothing but making her feel better about herself, and find support from random anonymous people on the internet.
You basically just said "guilty until proven innocent" in a roundabout way. This woman is a notorious liar and is known to do things like this to get attention. Sorry, but you can only cry wolf so many times until people stop ever believing you.
Serena Nelson writes:"Apparently, Kickstarted in the Butt, or "Project Tingler", is an FMV adventure game inspired by the works of a Chuck Tingler. I really don't know who this guy is, but from what I've seen here I'm kinda afraid to even look him up."
It's actually based off a fantasy of Tina Belcher's. At least it sounds like it.
Zoe Quinn leeching off someone who's actually creative to get money? Color me surprised.
It's gaming news because it involves several game developers and journalists engaged in ethically questionable hijinx that could affect their games and/or their coverage.
If the insanity surrounding game jam is gaming news and the alleged harassment Quinn faced from wizardchan is gaming news, then this certainly qualifies.
who was the journalist? haha
It's not her personal life. She can do whatever she wants, but, if you read the entire blog that her ex-BF made where he provides plenty of proof about how she is a pathological liar, then you can't help but wonder if some of her claims where even true (like the harrasment claims that actually she had no proof for).
It's not about condemning her either. She has a problem and she needs help and crucifying her is never a solution, she made a mistake, like all of us and she needs help, but presenting this evidence is important to know the truth about what is going on with all her claims.
This literaly has nothing to do with gaming, i dont even know who that girl is...
I think InternetAristocrat put it best.
"I don't care the Zoe Quinn fucked five guys. I don't care that Zoe Quinn cheats on people she's in a relationship with, that's on her. Her own accountability, her own ethical and moral failures as an individual are for her and her partner to deal with.
However, when the people she's having an affair with, the people she's cheating on her boyfriend with, happen to be able to help her career through their actions ralated to the industry that she is in? Then it becomes a piece of public discourse, and it becomes important because it helps to highlight a massive flaw in the Fifth Estate."