Gamespot: George "GeoHot" Hotz hired by massive technology company to work on a security initiative called "Project Zero."
A feature released by The New Yorker on George Hotz aka GeoHot, has revealed that the renowned hacker has been working together with Sony to improve their security measures.
Definitely, companies and even the government have been doing it forever, I'm just surprised to see that Sony actually got GeoHot on board. Wonder what sum of money he was offered :D
It's kinda like if the FBI were to hire the 'Bare-foot bandit'
EDIT:
A disagree? why?
Sony/Geohot = authority/notorious-evader = good hiring
FBI/notorious-evader = no good, why?
wasn't he banned from Sony products? it's hard for me to believe this
I can see this kid selling the security codes to someone. He just doesn't seem trustworthy although he'd make more money with SONY in the long run.
Well this is what Sony should have done in the first place instead of crying about how he was the one responsible for the PS3 being hacked.
It would have saved them a LOT of scrutiny and damage done by other hackers.
What actual crime did he commit? The guy is smart and is better off helping companies like Sony than being in jail.. save jailspace for the real criminals like rapists, murderers and bankers.
"This guy is a CRIMINAL. He should not be getting
a job, he should be in jail."
Yes, put him in jail so he can leech our tax money in food/lodging. Waaay better idea than making him a productive part of society by helping Sony catch OTHER criminals.
s/
How about STEALING one month of psn from MILLIONS of paying customers? How about the fact the he caused FEATURES from PS3 to be removed because he ILLEGALLY HACKED the system? The world could be BETTER without him. He does nothing for society but make it worse. That to me is the definition of a criminal and he belongs in jail just like every other criminal.
@logic
So commit a crime and get a job?
That's how things work. And here I've been trying to be a model citizen and live an honest life.
Who knew all I had to do was rob, steal and cheat to be rewarded with being a productive part of society.
Thanks for the advice Logic.
"Who knew all I had to do was rob, steal and cheat to be rewarded with being a productive part of society."
Anyone idiot can rob, steal, and cheat...your only rewarded if your really good at it ;)
Ever heard of Frank Abagnale?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
He hasn't been convicted of any crime by a court of law so legally speaking he is not a criminal.
"How about STEALING one month of psn from MILLIONS of paying customers?"
I know right, it's not like PSN is free or anything. To make it worse we were given free games as a result. What a total bastard.
"You must be one of those conservative flop4brains."
Why do you say that? Because I say that people who commit crimes deserve just punishment for it? That is how the system is SUPPOSED to work. If it worked the way people are saying (oh just give that criminal a job, that will teach him) then EVERYONE would commit crimes and the world would go into chaos! Stop defending this guy. He doesnt deserve it. He is scum and he has way more than he deserves.
"Jealousy?"
Why would I be jealous of some skinny punk? At least I have my integrity and moral compass intact. I dont have to steal from people to get ahead in the world. That makes be BETTER than him. Therefore, I have no reason to be jealous of him.
A criminal for what? Writing software/getting around "security" of a device he owns and bought? GTFO.
about the 'stealing one month off psn'
Geohotz was nothing to do with the network hack he just jailbroke the ps3....
happened way before...
Lol this article goes to show just how biased and stupid some people on this site are. The guy isn't a criminal.. he was never found guilty of committing a crime and by law that means he isn't a criminal.
You can take your biased attitude either way you want.. you could say he was promoting piracy and cost Sony a lot of money or you could say he was just tinkering around with a piece of hardware he bought but facts are facts and the fact here is he isn't a criminal.
@FlashXIII, a settlement usually means the other party is guilty; in this case, it's GeoHotz.
The fact that he spent money elsewhere with his donation money while facing a lawsuit is another clue he's guilty.
Follow the money, man. Follow it.
It's not biased. The truth was there for you to be seeing.
Call the self righteous police , FlashXIII is correct : "save jailspace for the real criminals like rapists, murderers and bankers."
I thought this clown was "BANNED" from Planet Earth!
.....anyway we all know Companies/Government work with Hackers!
Hacking is the easiest way to get a high paying job (without going to Boot Camp) with the FBI or Pentagon!
Nice. Hopefully with his help, The PlayStation Network wont shut down for another month.
If I was Sony I would of punched him in the face first...and THEN hire him
Does seem a tad hypocritical of Sony though, put up a massive fight with him, go against piracy which was a bold, brave thing to do, watch the PSN go down for a month and now work along side him....come on
He was the person who started the chain reaction leading to the PSN being shut down...I wouldn't of dared hired him
Hmm...but isn't it better for Sony to work with the dudes who brought down the PSN in the first place....."even former enemies could make good allies"
I saw an interview the other day and this guy basically said that's how modern policemen work. they work with the community (and criminals to an extent), and not against them.
Sony is kind of using the same principle. only good can come from this.
A police officer I once met told me that one of the best guys they have, is a cop who simply knows "all the people from the scene" and therefore solves his cases the fastest (he's known for being lazy, simply hanging out with these people all the time. Therefore, wants to solve things through networking xD)
You mean like when law enforcement has criminals help them with ongoing cases they might otherwise not be able to solve? Prosecuting him was the right thing to do, first and foremost. But working with him gives him a chance to benefit, and they benefit as well. Oh, and we benefit, too.
Sounds like you would have taken it personally, but it's business: hire the talent. For GeoHot, it's as the saying goes: if you can't beat em, join em.
Edit: mr_badhand, you sure do love to take things to their extremes, don't you?
I don't know what country you live in, but criminals have cooperated with their governments for centuries to receive lighter sentences. Whether it's ratting out co-conspirators or simply pointing folks in the right direction; sad to say, I had one of my cousins try to cooperate and implicate another in a murder so she would receive a lighter sentence.
Or have you never heard of someone testifying for a lighter sentence? More than just that happens, you know.
Also, note I said "Hire the talent." The talent on the legal side of hacking kinda doesn't exist. So if you want someone to help you stop hackers, your best bet is another hacker. But it usually isn't until they get caught that they're willing to cooperate.
I'm SO sorry you didn't understand that, though.
Hicken is right! Lets all become career criminals and get great jobs when we're caught.
Criminals helping law enforcement? Like Breakout Kings or White Collar? What's that other TV show where a criminal teams up with a cop... Oh yea the movie 48 hours!
@mr_badhand You're entitled to your opinion but know that those shows aren't exactly original ideas. They are inspired by real life circumstances and the criminals were actually useful in those situations. Also you forgot the Hannibal movies.
@wolo
Damn, how could I forget those movies.
I know most are based off of real life situations because not to long ago I myself partnered up with a cop to bring down a ruthless crime boss. It detailed long car chase scenes, witty dialog and a final shoot out scene all in an hour and a half time.
It's kind of giving those types of hackers the wrong message
"Hack something big, cause a big kafuffle and get given a well paid job."
Thats not right...they should be punished, why should people who follow the rules in life miss out getting good jobs against someone who has broken them
What about the good hackers out there, the ones who know how to hack but also know when they are going too far. People like that who actually try and get work end up being unemployeed while arseholes like Geohot get a well paid job.
Sony working with him for the "better" is nonsense, if you had good computer/hacker skills you could work to help improve the online.
I mean if you found out you lost a job oppertunity towards someone who took down the companies online system and made their life a living hell for a month...you would be a tad p*ssed off you lost it to someone like him.
Wasn't he working for Facebook once? Lol it's funny how Sony sued with this guy and now he's working with them
Maybe it was part of the agreement that Sony made with Geohot that made that fiasco end so abruptly. The dude started the whole events that led to the PSN outage so hiring the guy to see what he saw in the holes of the security will help make it stronger.
He may be a douche but he is a brilliant one at that though.
Nice concept we have here; Reward criminals for taking part in criminal activity. :-/
Yet again, what criminal activity? Writing software/documenting/circumven ting security of a device you bought and own? Yet again, GTFO idiot. You don't want to own anything, do you?
Distributing (stolen) copy-protected codes.
No need to go around calling users "idiots" because you're uneducated on the topic.
The article says he's working with them but for all we know he's not getting paid but this was part of the settlement to keep him out of jail
I remember when all of N4G waged war on him because he hacked a Sony product.
He got sued by Sony, and if this is true, he is now working for them.
I started to completely despise him about 2 years ago when he enjoyed and exploited how he was made into a sort of saviour/martyr in the hacking community and used the donations he got to gain a settlement with Sony. He basically used the news coverage and media attention on him to gain fame for his own interests such as getting employed in highly paid jobs.
When he first used OtherOS to gain access of the PS3, I admit he did that on his own and with his own intelligence. However when failoverthrow released that exploit, he went and used it to make a CFW without even crediting them at all. failoverthrow had already said they weren't going to develop a CFW and so geohot became the first person. And thus his fame grew exponentially. At this point, Sony sent him the lawsuit and the long battle begun. The hacking community saw Sony's attempts at silencing him as an attempt to silence a section of the internet and so they saw geohot as someone fighting their cause.
Of course, it was far from that. He exploited it all to just further his own career. The donations for his legal team were not supposed to be used to reach a settlement but to plead innocent until the end.
Now the entire hacking community despises him. So when little kids on this site hate him for petty reasons, they have no clue about the real genuine reasons he deserves to be hated.
Jobless hackers take note. If you want a job just hack a big corperation screwing all of their consumers and not only will these companies give you a job but yous will get payed nicely for it too. Oh and make sure yous pretend you hacked their products for the greater good of having rights and features taken away.
The guy obsessively tries to access and spread your codes for years and gives up, then reappears when stolen codes are leaked and eats up the glory as he "hacks" your hardware thanks to a cheat sheet.
And you hire him. Wow. SMH
That must be why we have been having all these PSN scheduled maintenances. He's probably been pointing out security issues and advising they fix it.
And so goes the saying, If you can't beat em join em. This should improve and hopefully stabilize security on future consoles and products
I love how so many hackers end up getting jobs to assist companies in stoping hackers
I thought Geo said he would never work for Sony... if this is all true, then its very ironic indeed.
VGW: It’s been a crazy year for Sony’s Playstation 3. Sony’s black stallion console was sitting pretty with a slew of benchmark games on the horizon, which were optimized for online capabilities. However, a kid by the name of Hotz and a rogue group of Anonymous hacktivists would eventually send the Playstation Network into a tailspin. The response from gamers has ranged from overt outrage to humorous indifference. This sort of outage is not new to gamers, and despite what some zealous XBox 360 fanboys from 4Chan may say, even they have felt the sting of extended network outages.
I am not going to read and give site hits to another article trying to compare the 2007 XBLA outtage and PSN getting HACKED... its completely apple to oranges and insane that people don't see the difference.
Dude I think you SHOULD read. It has nothing to do with the 2007 xbox outage. The article is quite in context with the situation. But seeing your profile pic, don't think you are a person that will understand.
@sourav93 see my response below. I judged the article on its description and title here...you judged me by my gamer pic...
as hopefully you will see...we both were a little quick to judge.
i agree its getting old -_- and sad
edit
"XBox 360 fanboys from 4Chan may say, even they have felt the sting of extended network outages. "
what do you mean its in the article did you even read the little part they give you :\
The biggest difference is not everyone was without XBL during that time. I for one still was able to play games online. PSN was attacked and had to be shut down and when you call them, they are saying it "Could take 2 weeks" or longer.
They pretty much are rebuilding PSN. So hunker down PS3 users.
These articles are just flame bait that shouldn't even be approved.
@sourav93 So I took chance based on your response and gave it a read. And I was pleasantly surprised that this article is indeed a nice indepth look into the current PS3 outtage issue.
What is absolutely shameful is the author chose to make this article sound like (per the description here on N4G) this was another article comparing the current Sony PSN issue with other issues on services like XBLA in the past. The opening paragraph of this article has nothing to do with the actual meat of the article which is all about the history leading up to this PSN outtage.
Again...its a good article that is sadly mis-represented by its title and opening paragraph.
Hey, author here, thanks for pointing that out. I apologize and am regretful for the misleading headline. Although, I really didn't want to come off as a Sony fanboy with my opening sentence. I'm just pointing out the trolls on 4chan that have been rubbing it in PS3 users. It's more of a tongue-in-cheek thing. But yes, thanks for pointing these out to me.
Fair point I guess then. I guess I judged you too soon as well. No hard feelings? peace
im tired of there articles .... all i did is dust my 360 off and im going to enjoy it till psn is baq up ... then baq in the closet it goes till gears 3 comes out
Sorry, I don't have that kind of information, and I know that some people aren't familiar with the events leading up to this. That's the only thing I could honestly write about.
The only ones who will use this as a chance to bash Sony are the ignorant and misinformed..btw good article.
Really getting sick and tired of every body in the game journalist industry act like it's SONY fault that the PSN IS OFFLINE so what I can't get online I can still play my games off line and wait till PSN IS BACK ON it's not THE END OF THE WORLD PEOPLE.
This isn't a grievance against Sony, there's no part in the article where I express any sort of discontent. In fact, the only reason the XBox Live incident was even referenced was my intention to alleviate grievances for PSN being down. The article is purely set for people to get a brief rundown of the events leading up to the PSN crash with no frilly, vapid speculation included. Read the article before posting. <3
After George Hotz’s battle with Sony in the court ended, the PlayStation 3 and iPhone hacker stated there’s much more to come from him in terms of information (regarding Sony). Well, he certainly wasn’t joking around as Geohot has revealed extensive details regarding the removal of the OtherOS feature and much more.
Regardless of Hotz, doesn't this unsettle you as a consumer?
“You don’t have an ownership right in the software that Sony Computer allows you to use. That’s the whole point of the license agreement, it’s not an ownership interest, it is a privilege that Sony conveys on them.” Should I feel privileged to give you $300? If you take the privilege back, what can I do with my uncontested ownership physical PS3? If I stop using your software and install my own, you’ll sue me.
Not only that, but as we move forward all products will likely contain a computer and some software. If the manufacturer would like to reduce your access to said software, congratulations you got a paperweight!
We need a reform on the law to prevent companies from screwing consumers.
I agree, this is getting bloody stupid, they've obviously realised that SONY has won this whole thing and now they've ran out of ideas.
Sony are defending their IP - that's all it comes down to and if you are somehow threatening the balance and well being that online gamers expect then you can't expect Sony to simply stand idly by while their entire network is destroyed can you?
That's what this little pr**k doesn't seem to understand. He's 'whining' about Sony searching personal computers and PS3's but he also says that they're the 'representatives'. If you've somehow got yourself involved in this mess and Sony press charges against you, how can you not expect them to search your PC and PS3 for incriminating evidence as this is what the entire case revolves around? Don't piss on the snow and call it lemon slush Geohot. Then he goes on to say that Sony demanded to search someone's computer, even though he backed out of the suit. Do you think a person storing child pornography on their computer can simply 'back-out' of a case brought against them because it's infringing their privacy? Of course not! People are going to want that person brought to justice because he was in the wrong and if that person was in the wrong, Sony has every right to demand an inspection.
He's also taking things way out of context. He says how it 'unsettles him' that Sony says we don't have ownership rights in the PS3 software. Of course we bl**dy well don't! This all comes back to Sony wanting to maintain a fair and balanced online community which cannot be done if people are simply allowed to do what they want with their hardware and wanting to play online with other people at the same time.
I'm sick and tired of this guys face cropping up everywhere and I just had to vent - hopefully you guys agree.
these guys are just crying because haven't been able to fully hack the PS3 and Sony is giving them a hard time doing so. They were expecting to become popular and have their 15 min of fame by allowing homebrew apps on the PS3 but Sony is not letting them, and now they are trying to find excuses like little girls
Software has NEVER been owned by an end user. It's called an " end user licence agreement" and "licence" is the key word here, licence to use the software, not that you own the software.
This applies to games, applications and operating systems, including the PS3s. You're living in a fantasy world if you think you own ANY media you have.
Games, music, movies... technically, even lending them to a friend is a breach of the licence agreement, "unauthorised lending" is usually the term on the disc. Why do "rental" places exist? They pay MASSIVE fees to be given permission to loan them out.
Point is, you can't complain about ownership of something you don't own. The console is a delivery medium for said software, just as a disc would be for a game, worthless pieces of plastic with the software and licence being what you are paying to use.
I want to hear you try to somehow spin Sonys actions of demanding a plaintiffs computer and hard drive EVEN AFTER Sony scared them away from pursuing with the lawsuit. Yes, after the plaintiff gave up on the lawsuit, Sony still demanding access to that individuals computer and hard drive, which has no relevance to the case to begin with, despite the fact that the person was no longer seeking a lawsuit.
Give me a break. I LOVE my PS3/PS2/psx just as much as you guys, but that is just insane behavior for a company of Sonys size and stature. You guys need to understand that they are a CORPORATION, one that seeks money. Please stop actng like they are the savior to humanity.
I understand Sonys desire to maintain security for the PS3 and fully support that. I DON'T however support the way they are going about this. What they did to the person who brought a court case over otherOS removal is just downright wrong.
GeoStealsCode is such a ridiculous hack.
"One of the new focuses of this blog will be following the OtherOS lawsuit. These class action lawsuits are the type that can bankrupt or do seriously financial harm to a company, and finally get Sony to realize that they are not above the law as they would like to believe"
-
LOL, he wishes. A class action lawsuit is HARDLY going to take down an entire corporation. Class action suits happen all of the time.
"And it’s still on everyone’s PS3 who didn’t update"
-
And the online attach rate is extremely high on the PS3. Most people updated and the future for the PS3 became more secure.
"They are whining to the court, saying they didn’t remove OtherOS and that they are just the messenger. And that they can’t get the documents and communications saying why because SCEI has them"
-
Yeah, SOOOOOOO much lamer of an excuse than "I didn't noes that SCEA existedz!" /s
"If I were the plaintiffs, the first thing I would have done is added SCEI and got a motion to compel on those docs"
-
And yet you didn't wait for it to happen...you settled. It's over. What might have been is no longer due to YOUR actions. So stop whining.
"they claim restoring Linux to your PS3 is “not only prohibited under Sony’s agreements, but is illegal” This is an example of a lie. EULAs are not law"
-
Breaking a signed agreement IS illegal, however...
"You don’t have an ownership right in the software that Sony Computer allows you to use. That’s the whole point of the license agreement, it’s not an ownership interest"
-
Welcome to economy 101, Geohack.
@PirateThom:
"Games, music, movies... technically, even lending them to a friend is a breach of the licence agreement, "unauthorised lending" is usually the term on the disc. Why do "rental" places exist? They pay MASSIVE fees to be given permission to loan them out."
Ever heard of first sale doctrine? It effectively ensures you can rent, sell or lend a legally obtained copy of copyrighted work once it is been sold!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
http://www.insideredbox.com...
@HolyOrangeCows:
"Breaking a signed agreement IS illegal, however... "
That is not entirely true either. It is NOT illegal to break an "Illegal Agreement". So if you signed a paper saying you are slave to someone else, but you later refused then it isn't illegal!
***It is only illegal to break a legal agreement!***
People really need to broaden their mind about the system before they make false assertions!!!
That "first-sale doctrine" only covers resale and gifting, not lending.
And, based on that Wikipedia page, a case in 2004 was "lost" based on the EULA.
Incorrect and incorect! It is completely legal to rent and lend a legally obtained copyrighted work.
It is the second or third sentence in the wikipedia article :
"The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell, lend or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained."
Redbox is a good example of this, where they sent employees out to buy large quantity of DVDs at retail for rental in their RedBox Kiosk and the movie studios really can't do jack squat.
This is well documented and can be found by searching Google.
Furthermore, did you read the case you referred to? It has nothing to do with the first sale doctrine. It has to do with a breach of EULAs (and also notice they also included the terms of *service*) by reverse engineering and distribution of the resulting software:
"Plaintiffs assert that the individual defendants breached the EULAs and TOU when they used reverse engineering to learn Blizzard's protocol and distributed the bnetd software on the Internet. Defendants contend that the EULAs and TOU in this case concern areas protected by the Copyright Act. Defendants assert that the Copyright Act preempts the state law of contracts and therefore plaintiffs' state law contract claim is preempted by the Copyright Act."
Source: http://www.freedom-to-tinke...
Learn your rights, know why you need to protect them then PROTECT THEM!
.
It looks like the fanboys will defend Sony no matter what. How is looking at people's home computers any of Sony's business? I said from the beginning, Geo needed better lawyers and Sony would of got a lot worse than an out of court settlement.
What I don't get is why no lawyers stepped up to take on Sony. Sony couldn't even prove geo new what Sony was, let alone if he even owned a PS3. Sony should of been fined 1 million dollars a day for wasting the courts time.
If someone does something wrong, Have him charged assuming your have reasonable grounds, take him to court and prove it. What Sony did was we THINK he is doing something wrong now give us permission to go into ALL aspects of his life and see IF we can find something.
I don't agree with piracy BUT I rather have piracy than big corporations running around abusing people's rights.
"What Sony did was we THINK he is doing something wrong now give us permission to go into ALL aspects of his life and see IF we can find something.
I don't agree with piracy BUT I rather have piracy than big corporations running around abusing people's rights."
LOL what a spin! are you his lawyer or something? Sony "thinks" he did something wrong? he posted the key online, and admitted that he DID! what else are there to think for?
and that last statement means...you're a PIRATE then!
@ gaming droid.
such a thing would be unworkable because its not just consoles and such but everything..
such a law would basically say that companys lose ip rights when they release a physical product.
while homebrew could be nice its incredibly unlikly that it would only be used for homemade aplications
i buy a copy of windows im entitled to use it and add to it as long as i dont try to alter its core or reverse engeener it.
if a law like that was passsed to allow people more rights
then whats to stop one company from buy ing windows to rework direct x so it runs on linux or a mac or android..
companys lease and license software they dont sell it if they did it would be chaotic
imaginary company linsoft releases doors there new os and a law comes into place saying purchesres have rights over the software...
so they lose the ability to protect it which means bob who bough a copy makes copys and sells emto friends because its his software now..
it legalises piracy basically
I believe that most of you coming to EgoHot's defense and claiming Sony are infringing rights are forgetting two simple facts when an investigation like this is being done.
First, Sony will not be seeing or using anything. Just like the IP addresses in EgoHot's case, a third impartial party has to be assigned to find what Sony wants to locate. A very specific subpoena has to be made in order to gain access to that individuals computer so that personal and private information irrelevant to the case is not divulged. The impartial party will only be allowed to search for evidence pertaining to the case and nothing else. Privacy is protected even in this.
Second, the plaintiff's lawyers also have the right to use this evidence as they see fit. Full disclosure applies. Just like in EgoHot's case.
You're saying that the individual who backed out of the case shouldn't have been demanded to hand over evidence. It doesn't work that way. The individual bit off more than he could chew and tried to chicken out, but if there was reason to believe that he had illegal material in his possession, then Sony's rights are being upheld when they make a request to obtain that evidence.
If the issue is about rights, then remember that both sides have rights. Essentially what you're saying is that Sony's right to protect their industrial secrets and intellectual properties are irrelevant next to the rights of people to reverse engineer software they had no part in creating, and have no personal stake in. Sony can't stop anyone from removing their Sony's OS and installing their own. But they can stop people from taking their work and having it changed and modified. Especially if the modifications can be damaging to not only the company's bottom line, but the overall majority of individuals who expect a stable and fair online experience.
No individual rights have been violated here, the media is blowing this to unrealistic proportions and ignoring the facts. Sony would not be granted the use of any evidence that was a fundamental violation of basic rights, which are and always have been clearly stated in law.
By agreeing to an EULA, you are admitting that you paid for the hardware and are granted a LICENSE to use any software that comes with the hardware. You agree that the software is NOT your created work, and thus you have no claim to it and cannot change it. You agree that you do not have the right to then distribute an altered version of work you had no part in creating or have any stake in. These are legally binding terms. The only way these terms can be circumvented is if they are deemed to be unfair to either competition, or detrimental to the function of the product. It's all plain and simple.
You supporters of EgoHot like to talk a big game about your crusade for people's rights, but have you bothered to look deep into each case and see the real details? Or do you just take the biased opinions of "the scene" at face value, adding in your personal distaste of big corporations who are responsible for millions of jobs, and millions of dollars in charitable donations, and are made up of hundreds of people who want their rights to make an honest living off of hard work to be defended as well?
@ DragonKnight
ok first things first:
EULA IS NOT A LAW. It's agreement.
LAW > EULA
My Country law say (poland) that features of buyed product can't be dependable on another agreement like EULA.
So they can't sell you product wich depend on digning new EULA in new firmwares.
So they can't remove other OS and they can't make you sign anything that removes any feature.
So if on my PS3 box is signed OTHER OS and PLAYSTATION 3 games no EULA can change that. If i go to shop and i see PLAYSTATION 3 game that game must run on all PS3 even with firmware from 2007.
This is my country LAW and even if i agree on EULA in doesn't mean EULA will change anything.
People think that EULA is law but it isn't
LAW>EULA always.
To make this clear for you people here is example:
You signed contract with your best friend that you will kill him. It's EULA
After you kill him EULA can't do anything because LAW says if you kill somebody you will go to jail.
This case applies to every country mine USa and other.
Same is with case of used coppies. USA LAW as someone posted allow you to sell YOUR game. EULA say you can't.
LAW>EULA and you can sell games that you bought.
So if there is a LAW that says OTHER OS CAN't be removed like OTHER OS. People have every right to change it or ask for money or including back Other os in new firmware even if they accepted Eula.
Also i can't comprehend why people defend Sony ?
- Sony removed feature that you bought same as blu ray or ps3 games.
- Sony tried to seize computers of people who sue Sony.
- In Geohot case they are side (SCEA) if it comes to playstation 3 and they independant from SCEI
In OTHER OS case they clearly say they are parent company to SCEI and can't get documents from them.
You think if this case is won by those poeple Sony won't sell you games anymore ? or will stop making PS3 ? Or will cut funding for better exclusives ?
No this won't happen it will teach Sony that they can't do anything they want with people products that they bought.
If on the box says : OTHER OS, PS3 GAMES, BLURAY MOVIES.
EVERY FEATURE MUST BE THERE IN 2010,2020,2030 and so on.
If you can't understand it you guys have been brainwashed.
Once more to be clear:
LAW>EULA ALWAYS
@Perkel: Laws in Poland are irrelevant to this issue. The fact remains that agreeing to the EULA is agreeing that you have been given a license. It IS a contract between you and Sony that you purchased hardware from them and have been granted a license to use their software. THAT is LAW. You are given a choice. Agree to the EULA and be given the access to the software under those conditions, or do not agree to the EULA and keep the PS3 as a paperweight.
EULA's are designed to show the rights of the buyer and the software author. As a buyer you have the right to use the software as per the terms of the EULA and can't be stopped from using the software as long as you agree to those specified terms. As the software author Sony has the right to maintain control over their industrial secrets and protect their financial investment as the principal owners and creators of a unique intellectual property. The law cannot force companies to divulge or allow the distribution of their industrial secrets.
Now then, the EULA and TOS of pretty much any product on the face of the planet states that the rights holder to said product is granted permission, upon acceptance of said agreement by the end user, to change/revise the product WITHOUT prior notice so long as the change or revision does not hamper the basic functional purpose of the device. OtherOS was NOT an advertised feature, it was NOT a critical feature necessary to the basic function of the PS3 (which is a multimedia gaming console), and when you clicked on "Accept" you acknowledged that you knew Sony was telling you that they reserve the right to change any part of their proprietary software and you were completely ok with it.
Your rights as a consumer were not infringed upon as the basic function of the PS3 is still very much secure, stable, and as strong as ever. YOU AGREED to the terms and therefore have no right to b*tch. Especially over a less than minimally used feature.
Know your TRUE rights. If anything Sony changes or removes prevents you from playing games, music, or videos, then you have the right to be outraged and Sony would lose a class action lawsuit. But in this instance, it is the same as any software company removing older features from older versions of their software in an update that you download and agree to install.
Would you sue MS for features removed from Windows 7 that were in Windows XP?
Here's an interesting thought about EULAs.
Most of these agreements are reached after purchase and installation. In essence, you buy the thing, and then you agree to the EULA. If you, for example, read the agreement and decide to say no to the stipulations found within, you happen to be completely out of luck.
Couple this with the fact that at least certain types of titles can't be returned to the store any longer (as in, someone bought up store copies of Cataclysm, grabbed the CD-keys, and tried to return them), and suddenly you have your end of the bargain held up: money is paid but no good/service has been received. Technically speaking, all requirements and agreements should be reached prior to any sort of purchase, or at least materials regarding the EULA should be made readily available for perusal.
But it doesn't work that way at all. In addition, a EULA is, as other people have mentioned, not law, but sort of a contract. You agree to certain terms found within, but it's not necessarily legally binding.
Think of it like an apartment rental contract. In Minnesota, the landlord is responsible for monetary upkeep internally and externally (lightbulbs, smoke alarm batteries, lawn mowing, etc.) However, many landlords will put stipulations in the contract saying they can take money out of the deposit for missing lightbulbs or some such. In addition, they can also "require" tenants to maintain lawn or charge them fees if they don't.
Just because a tenant signs the contract agreeing to the stipulations doesn't make them legal, and landlords can get in serious trouble for putting in illegal requirements. However, often times they get away with it because people aren't aware of specific laws.
Now, obviously software law is a long way behind a lot of other places, but I seriously think cases will be coming up soon that challenge the legality of stipulations found in the EULAs.
Mostly I'm thinking it will start regarding privacy issues, as in how much personal data programs are allowed to mine from your computer and habits.
@ InTheKnow
seriously, you don't know anything, sony got the IP's for evidence, not to look at whats on my computer or yours, they got it to prove distribution of the security code information Geohot released about the ps3.
"What I don't get is why no lawyers stepped up to take on Sony. Sony couldn't even prove geo new what Sony was."
Are you freaking serious, prove what sony was. I'm not even gonna bother.
If geohot did nothing wrong, then he would of stuck it out to win, he settled with sony cause he was gonna lose. He knew it, his lawyers knew it, thats why. Were probably never gonna know the real reason because hes bound by a gag order under the settlement.
Sony tried to end the lawsuit with class and style, so GoeHot doesn't lose face, and instead,
GeoHot goes around, whinning like a sore loser, "whah wah wah!!!"
Lame.
GeoHot: "Wah, wah, wah. Sony have no right to ask the court to search my computer after I have done something illegal. They're violating my right to privacy."
...is the same as...
Murderer: "Wah, wah, wah. The prosecutor have no right to ask the court to search my house after I have openly murdered someone in my basement and openly brag about it over the internet. They're voliating my right to privacy."
Well this one is really going to make the ps3 fangirls cry.
"The US District Court for the Western District of Washington has backed Vernor, though, in his claim that he owned the software and had the right to sell it on."
So $ony didnt own the software geohot did cause they sold it to him.
Saladfax "Most of these agreements are reached after purchase and installation. In essence, you buy the thing, and then you agree to the EULA"
That why does are not legally binding. you have to read and sign a contract for it to be legally before payfor services or buy something. Plus not everyone can enter legally agree to a EULA even if they want to. Minors cant agree to any kind of legal contract and that probably about 60% of p3 owner at least. people who are mentally retard cant either(that probably about 75% of ps3 owners).
Think of it like this when you go to buy a car you are given the paper to read and sign before they can take your moeny. You dont buy a car then get all the paperwork.
@thats_just_prime: Completely different. That case is about selling one's license, not about modifying and then freely distributing.
The article itself is very poorly written up front and does not speak towards the actual case's precedent until mid way through, which is that users have the right to sell the Discs, digital copies, and licenses that they purchase to others.
It is not about giving them the right to edit the code and redistribute it without giving up their rights to the license they previously agreed to. Nor is it about giving them the right to create patches that edit the code on their or someone else's machine. The IP is still in the ownership of the company, just the copy is owned by the user and may be resold as they see fit.
This is not an issue with the PS3 considering A) second-hand sales of consoles and game software are already legal and B) PSN software is already provided for free and therefore reselling it just doesn't make any sense.
gamingdroid. apone reading what you stated.
as for sony owning the fact is alot of company's with whatever item they sell hardware wise have terms and condition's mainly loop holes.
as im reading this this sounds like its been read from a statement by his lawer from money silly people threw at him. when there was other people looksing loved ones and homes in japan.
i agree they are getting desperate even the latest news on annonymous look desperate they gonna make the biggest attack we ever seen. yet asking for people same time in video to step up. like wtf if you soo big why dont u do it take of your f*cking masks at least hotz doesnt hide give him that.
This is getting ridiculas we cant take everything that has been said because we wernt there we dont know what was said. and yet not long he was out of court he wouldnt give no statement no comment.
Sony has always been against piracey since the playstation 1 day's im all with sony removing the linux ca'mon how many really used it WORLDWIDE. small percentage. sony trying to keep them safe and guess wot they get for it little sh*ts like this. they supposed to be for the ppl HA more like yourselvs. fuck i hate all of this sh*t Sony screw em over once and for all.
You are wrong on so many counts, yet you point the finger at others and say "but have you bothered to look deep into each case and see the real details?"
If you read my comments (and others), did the research you will know that the law always supersede any agreements you make. Any agreement (including the EULA) is only legally binding if it is enforceable within the ramification of the law.
As Perkel said (and it works virtually the same in all countries including the US):
You cannot sign away your rights, and I repeate nor can you enforce an illegal agreement. It's plain and simple.
The LAW > EULA!
Now the interpretation of the law can be changed, and that is often contested in court.
However, there is no if's, but's, what's or when... I suggest you follow your own advice and do some more research!
@ComboBreaker:
Murderer: "Wah, wah, wah. The prosecutor have no right to ask the court to search my house after I have openly murdered someone in my basement and openly brag about it over the internet. They're voliating my right to privacy."
NO! I have simply looked up how to perform murder, not actually done it! Should anyone (including the government or corporation) have the right to inspect my privacy simply because I view material that may be offensive to others? I invoke my and others the freedom of speech and to listen/hear whatever I want even if it is offensive to you! That is the essence of free speech and is why the US is such a great country! I don't want to live in a country where the government or corporation can censor information (think how wonderful China's censoring is)!
Keep in mind that Sony isn't asking about only Hotz's record, it has other peoples information (ip and access log). That is the issue! Just clarifying since people are focusing on Hotz, but the issue isn't about Hotz. It's about Sony asking for information that breaches others privacy.
@gamingdroid;
No, it doesn't. I brought the PS3 knowing damn well it was propriety hardware and software. I knew I'd never actually own the rights to it and that I'd just own a license.
oh god why are there still articles about this douche bag? most of us gamers don't give two sh*ts what you think or say.
i wish these websites would just stop giving this guy the attention he's so desperately seeking.
@TBM
Dude I swear to u I agree with you 100%. I don't know why the hell I keep seeing his ugly mug on the home page of N4G, or why people are still writing about him. It's getting on my last nerve
@moe
Yea I don't understand it either are these sites that desperate for hits?
I mean with all the games releases, E3 coming around the corner why are we still talking about idiot hackers?
He's a motherfucking moron. "I started to reconsider if it was because of an exploit, that OtherOS got removed"
This idiot needs to realize, that nobody cares about this shitty feature, and that it was removed because of exploits. If it was patched YOU could maybe have exploited it again so Sony took it away. A useless piece of media, that nobody except you, Anonymous, Anon, every fucking one of you lousy hackers need, because without it, you will hopefully die out soon.
Hehe, can't wait :)
They can easily run any form of OS on any kind of computer. computers that are way more powerful than the ps3. It's not about rights, they're just mad they can't hack it anymore. Plus sony added the feature after the ps3 was released and never advertized it so they have the right to remove it if they want, no matter the reason. They are acting like babies trying to convince the world that Sony having control over their own software is a horrible thing if they want the other os so bad then don't update easy and buy another to play games this is just a vendetta that these spoils kids can't get. If you don't like sony get a xbox and mod all you want or better yet use your smarts to make a better machine and hack away but no they don't think logically they'd rather whine until someone give them the nipple.
just_the_truth
I agree with your point, however might i say the cell processor is the same one used in blade servers. thus the ps3 when clustered to cost equal that of 1 blade, they(the cluster) are more than 3 times as powerful. I could be wrong though if so could you let me know.
As if im going to side with a hacker who also lies..
Hey.. how did you afford that vacation when you had a shit tonne of court fees to pay.. oh yeah those donations.. right..
You mentioned in the lawsuit things like never owning a game.. yet one of your first things shown with your exploit was involving a game..
No geo just no, you failed to get what you wanted.. hackers hate you.. you've lost a tonne of respect.. just disapear and use your skills to become a programmer or find a decent job that can provide you with a decent life
He seems as passionate about being lied to as I was when my 360 kept breaking while Microsoft lied about RROD not being an issue.
But even though I knew Microsoft screwed me and everybody I never wanted to attack Live or their websites.
My "attack" was to stop being a customer and taking my business elsewhere
when will this crybaby disappear? his picture makes me want to smack him. go out, get a job and make yourself useful to society
He seems angry though what he did was illegal (releasing the code), he should just stay quiet. He was lucky to get away with only a minor penalty considering what could have happened if he had lost. It seems like he just wants attention, why not tell us where the donation money has gone instead of badmouthing sony the minute you settle, you can say what you want but the case only ended a very short time ago, try not to generate more negative press towards yourself.
Some choice quotes:
"get Sony to realize that they are not above the law"
"When OtherOS was first removed, I had no doubt it was due to the hypervisor exploit."
"OtherOS removal is a completely stupid step"
"They are whining to the court"
"Sony doesn’t expect to find “evidence” there, it’s just simply to harass the representatives."
"Basically if Sony does bad things, you better not call them out, or they’ll attempt to make your life hell."
"OtherOS removal is a completely stupid step considering no one had even done anything with the hack yet. And the exploit was totally patchable."
Then he(geohotz) and other hackers would just try to find a way pass the patch.
also he said in his blog on the hypervisor exploit. they cant patch it out
and hes right when he discusses what he did it cant be patched out without hardware revision and running some more programs to try to prevent what he did
OtherOS is not going to be put back onto the PlayStation 3. Simple as.
Sony knows best.. & I believe in them to keep the system as secure as possible.
what Other Os have to do with security ?
If they will remove DVD/bluray movies playback because there is some exploit you will be happy ?
Same with every other feature you bought.
Perkel I agree with you 100%, some people don't want to see the bigger picture and the bad precedence this suits can cause.
I thought he came to peace with the matter with sony. He seems so butthurt after the court was over
he's just trying to save face because of all the backlash he got from his supposed supporters after the settlement.
Yeah, he's tal,king loud but saying nothing which is a very usual position for a man who let his side down. I totally don't agree with him(or the barefaced lie that he "never imagined what he was doing might enable piracy" FFS-how stupid does he imagine people are?)but DO feel for those who paid him monies thinking the guy would at least stand up as the martyr he made himself out to be.
It was Hotz who made this a big moral issue and by taking the supposed high ground he set himself up to get these people to pay his fees because they expected him to fight it out for his rights as his rhetoric suggested he would do. Sadly, this is no Malcolm X and no Mandela and at the first chance of avoiding a ;proper penalty he saved his own hide-and now we get a lot of hot air which says nothing just in a lame attempt to put off those former supporters sick of his double dealing.
If I had supported this guy I'd be REAL sick of his BS and would have been the moment I heard he settled. When you hear that you know for certain that Sony got something they wanted from him-what he got is obvious(they dropped the case and didn't bankrupt the guy)what he offered them, though, must be bad because there's a lot of bleating from him which suggests to me he's REALLY let his side down and feels a bit guilty now it's all over. Probably ratted out all his mates.
No honour among thieves, i'm afraid and Hotz just proves it. While I don't agree with his position, mind, the hacker movement deserved better than a coward who looked after number one at the very first chance. Hotz is, to me at least, a poor example of humanity, a coward and someone who you shouldn't trust. If I was innocent and felt I was I would NEVER settle as people will always doubt you if you do that and even more when you use other people's cash to fund your case-he owes them something, much more than this rubbish.
Agreed. The disagrees are apparently supporters of George, as their disagree clicking like crazy to every post here thus far that resents George. Freakin losers.
The only losers in life are those that don't pay attention to what's actually going on around them and putting it in its proper context. George isn't a loser and neither are those that agree with him.
All i hear is i'm a kid with no life and need to get laid big time xDDD.
@below first he would need to find a girl who would.
@Dart89
Get laid big time? Does that make u man! You just proved Geohot to be much more man than u r!!
You people know nothing about love, nor do you know what it is! Sad!
@jeeves86
mmmmm, i can see ur a kid! must be! or just an immature adult!
wow the kids r many on this site! Guess its time wasting to comment, well, hope you grow up one day!
ova this site, if its not filled with ps3 fanboys, its just complete immature!
Go read "The Road Less Traveled" and grow some manly balls!!!
btw this Geohot guy aint that bad! Id rather say the comments on this site r bad, mostly! Kids these days = no morals!
where u from jeeves86? Im from South Africa, you know that big continent South of Europe? Ppl these days still dont know where Africa is! lol
@D3ath, I think you have a few too many bubbles if you don't like this site, I'll help with that problem.
This site used to be better when the zones were separate but now its just a good place to get your trollface on.
@awesomeperson
yea seperate would be great! ima give up on this site! will just read the news - no more comments..
Since removing otherOS hasn't the processing memory involved been redistributed? Alloted to developers for their games?
Those are two independent things!
Having the option to run Linux doesn't affect your ability to use all the memory available in game development.
When you dual boot your PC/Mac, does your computer run both OS at the same time? Of course not, there is zero resource cost, unless you consider the few KB it takes to boot strap Linux on your hard drive. It is considerably less risk leaving it there than to update your firmware to remove it!
No.
However somewhat related, the system still reserves/shares one SPE and a small amount of RAM for the GameOS/Hypervisor (basically the in-game XMB) and one SPE has ALWAYS been completely reserved for security (the Secure Processing Vault) since day one. The PS3 CBE CPU was designed this way intentionally. The SPV polices all code running through the Cell processor, even through the main PPE (Power PC Element) that controls jobs assigned to each SPE; think of the PPE and SPV SPE working in tandem with each other.
The SPV SPE was the whole reason the PS3 was a bitch to hack. It is responsible for killing any unsigned code, making code injection impossible. This is why the PS3 was blown open once the keys were leaked to encrypt/decrypt/sign software; the SPV was no longer a threat/hurdle to hackers. Well Sony put a stop to that by changing the keys and implementing a white-list restoring the SPV security.
Cell BE Secure Processing Vault (IBM):
http://www.ibm.com/develope...
The memory redistributions were done by giving back overly held OS memory and not due to OtherOS.
Before, they planned for a certain max memory use by the XMB OS, so they capped that and prevented its used by video games. At one point, they go the footprint for the XMB OS down and knew it wouldn't get to their previous capped amount and therefore redistributed that back to the game developers.
OtherOS had no effect on this at all. OtherOS was all about the hypervisor exploit.
'What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.'
Geohot website
I swear he editted it, he said he would never settle unless Sony added Linux, guess who's the liar?
I wonder what Anonymous thinks about this? ... haha, It never ends. xD
Keep the articles coming, I guess
just let it go...
say it with me geo, R.I.P OtherOS....
you wanted them to put up their documents yet you didnt want them to search your pc, think about that...
hey can anyone please tell him that we just dont care anymore, how do we know hes not lying we weren't there in court with them, above all if your actions was what caused alot of misery for the PS3 users when using the PS3/PSN due to hacking of games and so forth then we just dont care what you say, you were in our bad books from the time you hacked the PS3 and guess what you still are
the fact that barely ANYONE on here seems to be concerned about the details of this court case - and the other court cases against sony - other than hoping and praying that sony win (for some reason, its like sony are your parents and you love them unconditionally lol) is just mind bending to me.
what youre basically saying is that youre ok with paying US$599 for a console only for you to not actually own it. thats why sony are trying to say. youre pretty much leasing it from them, and they can and will do whatever they want to change it/remove features, and you cant do anything.
whats next, they say "with the next system software update, everyone who owns a PS3 HAS to pay $200 a year to login to the PS Network. if you dont, you cant update, and if you dont update you cant access any online features"? would you all be ok with that? what about if they suddenly decide that they are going to disable blu-ray movie playback? youd be ok with that? if there was a way that you could get the movie playback to work again by modifying your PS3, dont you think you should be able to do that? its not hurting anyone, its a piece of plastic/metal that YOU paid money for and you now own.
it really is unbelievable, and paints a sad, sad picture for the future of consumer rights when people will so vehemently defend Sony in a case like this. youre basically saying "yeah sony, you kill off all of our rights! take them, we dont want them! you screw us over whenever and however you want. whats that, you want to screw me over again? here, ill bend over and drop my trousers to make it easier for you."
i just hope that someone has the finances and nerve to go through with one of the lawsuits, so that sony cant just bully them out of court like they did to George Hotz. remember, sony didnt WIN against him, and George Hotz didnt LOSE. they just outmuscled him. think about it - if they were going to win the case, why would they settle? theyre the ones with the billions of dollars and a team of expensive lawyers - they knew they would eventually lose, so they strong-armed George Hotz before they lost.
I'm not saying sony should steamroll him but he should keep a low profile for a while after getting out of the case instead of getting back on top of his soap box.
***what youre basically saying is that youre ok with paying US$599 for a console only for you to not actually own it.***
Following on you claiming us not understanding what the court case is about, this remark is a bit funny.
You do know this is all about software, not hardware? Software is managed by license, not by direct ownership of the code or how it's used. You don't own XBLA code, you don't own PS3 FW code, you do not own Microsoft Office code, heck you don't even own GNU licensed code.
That's the problem and the reason why Hotz settled. He can talk about owning his hardware all he wants, it does nothing to talk to what he did with the software, though. Nothing whatsoever.
I don't care paying the amount of a PS3 (which is less than what you stated, are you living in 2006?) for a simple cheater-free fun online environement.
If you can't grasp the fact that there are punks everywhere that will spoil everything, like pirating games and creating cheats apps, then it's time for you to wake up.
Why would anyone be pissed about their license? It even states so in the ToS. Terms of "service" as in we use a service, not goods. The software is there to protect consumers and devs. Has sony called you and told you "hey, you watched porn yesterday?" No? And they won't, they're not big brother. I'd be more weary of Facebook's or Zynga's practices than Sony...
so what are all your thoughts on iphone jailbreaking?
do you think anyone who does that should be hung out to dry too? its EXACTLY the same. and the courts ruled that its 100% legal to MODIFY THE SOFTWARE that came on your iphone because YOU BOUGHT THE IPHONE AND THEREFORE YOU OWN IT.
and dont pull out the 'iphones were only jailbroken so you could use them on another network' card. not everywhere is like america remember - here in australia from the first day the iphone was released you could get it on whatever network you liked. you could buy it completely unlocked and use whatever sim card you wanted in it. the ONLY reason to jailbreak it was to modify its operating system.
so you think everyone who does that should be sued? or because thats apple and not sony is it alright? if i buy something, i should own the ENTIRE thing. i shouldnt be able to reverse engineer it and then profit off it - that should remain illegal. but i should be able to tinker with its software/hardware as much or as little as i want.
when one of these court cases eventually goes all the way through to a ruling, the judge will rule that - like iphone jailbreaking - it is 100% legal to modify your PS3s software and hardware. its not a 'oh they might or they might not' - it will be deemed legal. the precedence has been set with the iphone, and technically the PS3 is no different than the PS3. you buy it, you get terms and conditions that you agree to (which are NOT legally binding remember), and you use it on an online/network service.
its just a matter of time. and when that happens, i expect a mass flooding because of the amount of tears the sony fanboys on here will shed because a multi-billion dollar company who couldnt care less about them lost the ability to take away our rights as consumers. oh the horror.
It would be great if people understood the difference between hardware and software.
I can legally put decals on my PS3. Or paint it a different color, because the *hardware* is mine. I cannot, however, modify the PS3s software. At point of purchase, I acquired a license permitting me to use the software in specified ways.
By your logic, people should be able to distribute software they bought without fear of reprisal, since you bought it. See the flaw in your argument?
Stop blowing this out of proportion. This isn't an issue of "rights." It's an issue of intellectual property ownership. Nothing more.
no the DMCA WHER IT SAYS JAILBREAKING SMARTPHONES IS LEAGAL is american only and that is where the legality rule applies at&t held a monopoly for i phones the us fedral government frowns strongly on that.
jailbreaking and unlocking are two different things that became entangled due to the way the unlock software came about
hotz unlocked the iphone later it became fully jailbroken which allowed unauthorised applications
however the courts are not precisly tech savy and only the unlocking aspect was fully considered
monopoly= bad unlock breaks monopoly.
the exception came around because of apples draconion app store policy to legitimate developers like adobe who were denied paccess to the app store
again contravening several us laws.
ps3 is made to play ps3 games ps1 games browse the internet and watch films
its not meant to play wii games or snes games or anything else
as such it is fit for purpose and there is no grounds for a case to determine dmca legallitys
you own hardware not software not firmware not games get that through your thick skulls.
Just like whn you buy a DVD or CD. You can't then rerecord it and sell it because all you bought was the right to play the disc and sell THAAT doisc on. You have zero rights over it's content. Why is it so hard to feel the same about software? I just don;'t see any reason to knock Sony over this one-all jailbreaking the PS3 was ever about was pioracy. Sure, there a a few people who enjoy messing about with firmware and emus but, really, hy not just use a PC, not get in trouble and also DO IT BETTER and more EASILY? The only real reason 90% of people who care about this see for hacking PS3 was to enable piracy-and that's the truth of the matter.
Why hack a closed system with an agreemant hen open systems not only exost but ALLOW you to emulate and so on ithout fear of reprisals? Couldn't be because some of us are cheap and lke to steal games could it? Oh, no, of course not! Save me, please, before I gag on the BS round here-when Hotz began all this he knew what the end result is always likely to be and him denying any knowledge of piracy was the biggest joke I ever heard and I'll still never see why it's better to hack a PS3 to do any of the non piracy stuff rather than just use a PC.
Uhm, it is not 100% legal to modify your PS3's software, because you don't own it. It's a license agreement that states that you cannot. If you don't like the terms of the license agreement, then take your fucking PS3 back to the store and ask for your money back, or contact Sony and ask for your money back. The end-user is in no position to modify the terms of the agreement, and said agreement states generally "if you do this, we'll do that."
"what youre basically saying is that youre ok with paying US$599 for a console only for you to not actually own it"
Jesus christ man...you're like....20+ years late.
Jailbreaking was only made legal for the purposes of allowing you to use a different service provider. The law did not make it legal to modify the IP, that is still protected by the DMCA. But, Apple found it cheaper to just update the security in the iPhone 4 and iPad/iPad2 rather than going after each individual.
Also, another part of this is the Jailbreak programs can be distributed freely without pressure from Apple because the programs contain none of Apple's code. The Jailbreaking programs take advantage of injecting code to make the Phone hickup into a service mode essentially where security features are then turned off.
With PS3 custom firmware, the only people who can get away with distribution are those who put out the signing tools and instructions. However Sony can legally get you under the DMCA if you distribute a modified version of their firmware or their keys for signing software and firmware.
If you find the keys (still through technically illegal means, warez sites, torrents, irc, etc.), do the modifications to the firmware yourself, and stay off the PSN, then Sony has no reason to sue you, because there is no distribution involved and you are not effecting their PSN service. This is akin to downloading a pirated film without uploading; the movie studios know it is a fruitless endeavor to chase the downloaders so they go for the source, the uploaders. This is why Hotz got sued and effectively lost (or had no case) was because in the film example he was the uploader.
To Millah
Did you really just say the guys computer has nothing to do with the case anyways. Let's step back and explain why you are as delusional as Geohotz. This person wanted to sue Sony for the removal of the other os. This lead Sony to believe this person was doing illegal things with THEIR code and breaching the end user agreement. Sony obviously had grounds to believe this because in order for them to be able to search the computer they have to file a motion. This motion would contain what the Sony attorneys believe to be direct evidence in support of their request to search the computer. Sony's motion obviously had strong enough language and facts to scare off the little pissant. It was a legal tactic by Sony and a smart one at that. They successfully stopped a law suit and caught someone violating the terms of use. Sony did not stop their though because they wanted to send a message. Sony knows the only people annoyed about the OS are for the most part hackers. Therefore if you take up a civil case against them they know you most likely violated their agreement at some point. If you violate the terms of use and it is painted right there for all to see, then you have no legal grounds to go forward, done, simple as that. Sorry to go on so long but so many people commenting on here who have no idea how a court works or an what an end user agreement is. I'll give some advice that will make you the smartest people in the world because 90% of the world ( well okay just lazy Americans of which I am one) fails to do on a daily basis. Read, comprehend and use your fucking brain.
hotz is trying to make it more than it is. yes sony may be using some bully tactics but when you are telling everyone on the web how to hack the ps3 even if hotz wasnt enabling piracy he obviously had enough information to inform the masses of how to do it and he may have. sony has a responsibility to protect not only its own ips but 2nd third party ips. he went through this with apple its his fault he played with fire again and got burned sorry for ya
i swear if i hear one more word about this clown... this is getting so old. he is just pissed sony shut him down. he needs to stfu and move on
Oh God, is this retard STILL talking about this stuff? What, he didn't learn his lesson?
Look, I don't care what he does with his OWN ps3, as long as he doesn't publish any information online. If he can hack and play pirated games, fine; I just don't want him letting anyone else do that because then it interferes with MY enjoying [online] games.
And is he STILL talking about OtherOS? How much of an idiot is he? I don't know how many times this has been discussed, probably hundreds and tons of comments, but I'll say it again: you don't have to update your ps3. If your OtherOS is THAT important to you that you can't live without it, then DON'T UPDATE YOUR PS3. Just use it at the old firmware and that's it, problem solved. You will lose access to your PSN, but that's your choice; if it's that important to you, then maybe it's more important than playing online games, right?
What's wrong with this guy? He just needs to get people's anger around SOMETHING, so again it's the OtherOS. Bankrupt Sony? For what? What is his real beef with Sony? I don't buy any of this crap, unless of course he is TRULY a loser and has NOTHING better to do than to be an attention whore. He would have faded into the background this time if it wasn't for these idiots, Anonymous. I think he's just trying to keep the game going because there's others out there doing the same thing. But all I see are the same type of people who rally in front of abortion clinics or animal testing labs; really, the problem is these fools have so many problems in their own lives they don't want to deal with so they just find something or someone to "fight." Seriously, fix your own life and let others do what they will.
Overall lesson he should have learned was you DO NOT screw with the corporates unless you are willing to give your life to hit them hard, outside of the court room.
The dude should not get any more coverage. STOP COMMENTING on these stories.
Wow, is Georgie boy a member here and reporting all the negative posts about him as trolling?..or are some of you still riding his crotch?
Dude it's Linux, relax.
If he wants to use it so bad put it on your PC. He sounds like a baby, why does he HAVE to have Linux on his PS3. Why is it so important that he hack it?
Geo demonstrating serious issues.
I gave up listening to what Geohot had to say long ago, its clear he is not interested in what actual gamers want. This has never been about us but his own selfish desires to hack and have his time in the spotlight.
I am sick of his anti-corporation BS. Congratulations you are now infamous, for all the wrong reasons.
On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:58 -0700, Geoffrey.Levand at am.sony.com wrote:
>> The feature of “Install Other OS” was removed from the new
>> “Slim” PS3 model to focus on delivering games and other
>> entertainment content.
>>
>> Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue
>> the support for previously sold models that have the
>> “Install Other OS” feature and that this feature will
>> not be disabled in future firmware releases
as you can see by the timestamp on the message written by levand concerning continued otherOS support on the fat models, you can clearly see that levand's statement was *not* post-hypervisor hack, as hotz claims.
the sad thing is that pro-hotz drones will gobble that nonsense up and believe every word.
Im not against homebrew on a device at all, im all for it. Im 100% against piracy though. A balance needs to be found here to balance the needs of consumers and those of corporations so taht every group wins. How the balance will be attained is beyond me though.
The problem with being for Homebrew but against piracy, with one comes the other. People say Homebrew on the PS3 was gonna be great, but yet all we saw was programs to steal developers games. Not 1 program has been shown/used other then backup loaders or Emulators.
100% agree. Like i said, i have no idea how to fix this issue, but i think something needs to be done for the sake of users, developers, publishers and hardware manufacturers.
So apparently he didn't sign a non-disclosure agreement.
But apart from all this I don't think consoles should be hacked. They're sold at incredibly fair prices, because of the complementary goods that are sold with them (games, TVs etc...) and if people were to get these games for free (yes, I am aware that you can do other things with hacks than get free games, but what do most people use it for?) then the price of hardware would rise as that would have to be the source of income. God, just buy a damn console of your choice and have a good time.
His blog might be following the OtherOS lawsuits but that doesn't make his opinion fact. But here is one FACT that you can disagree with all you want.
opinions are like assholes, each person has one and they talk alot of shit.
im sick of seeing this muthafukers face all the time. he acts like hes famous or something when in realty, hes just a little boy from america, or whereever the fuk hes from. get a life you wanker. you aint nothing. anyone whos smart can see through the little bastard. he claimed he was going to hack the NGP, then after said hes never going to buy a sony product again ONLY AFTER he knew he wasnt allowed to touch a sony product again. what a dumb asshole.
he just cant get enough of sony doesn't he. i bet you anything he grew up a single child or he doesn't have any family to speak of. spoil brat kicking and screaming for taking away his tv privileged.
this baboone makes me sick.
For people calling GeoHot and Anonymous attention whores, a whole lot of people are commenting on what these no-lifers are saying. Whenever you see another GeoHot or Anon article, don't give them attention. Trust me, they follow N4G and they love every bit of it. Read the article if you want, just don't make an uproar over something that some wanna-be nerd badass says. He's not worth the time or attention.
This guy, first tried to use ignorance as a defence is now telling us about law. Ban him from appearing in all media please
Christ this little boy is worse then a woman! This kid is nothing and no one but those low life anonymous cares about him!
... I bought my PS3 to play games & Blu-Ray... it still plays games and Blu-Ray. I never even TOUCHED the Other OS feature... know why? Because I don't need it to play games and Blu-Ray.
You b**** and b**** and b**** about the loss of the Other OS feature... when did you lose it? Round about the time this jackhole shows up. Before that, you HAD it. Sony didn't take it from you out of spite. They took it because it was being abused. Before all the game stealing, you.... well, you HAD it. And you still want to gripe at SONY?
Why not gripe at those responsible... like the jackhole trying to spin things to save face?
"And some of Sony’s words just really unsettle me. “You don’t have an ownership right in the software that Sony Computer allows you to use. That’s the whole point of the license agreement, it’s not an ownership interest, it is a privilege that Sony conveys on them.” Should I feel privileged to give you $300? If you take the privilege back, what can I do with my uncontested ownership physical PS3? If I stop using your software and install my own, you’ll sue me."
Pretty much says it all. Sony have no honor.
answer this question...
Is Sony the only company that makes its consumers sign an EULA/TOS??...
before your brain implodes ill just give you the answer...
No...
Man, Geo seems mentally unstable. He can't accept the fact that he lost. He was actually beaten by a machine and it's parent company. He couldn't hack it, so he had to steal. He couldn't beat Sony's charges in court, so he had to agree to settle. He needs to be on 24hr suicide watch. Things didn't go like they did in the past with Apple and the iPhone.
He seems to be incapable of accepting his loss.
The same way we don't OWN our copies of Windows, Geo doesn't OWN Sony's software on the PS3. It is really simple logic, I have no idea why so many cannot grasp this concept.
Actually, the only thing Geo did manage to accomplish for the PS3 gaming, hacking, and scene community is credit for removal of the Other OS feature. May that be all he is credited with, and may heaven and hell direct all anger rightfully towards him and not Sony for being the direct cause of its disappearance.
Hotz is the worst kind of loser, the whining crybaby type.
Everytime I see a picture of George I wanna punch him in the face.....sorry...just cant help it.
This young man needs to watch where he steps. If he believes so strongly in what he writes, why did he back down in court? A man of conviction never compromises his beliefs regardless of the circumstances.
Here is Hotz - sitting in the comfort of his own home - attacking Sony again after battling a lawsuit that could have easily landed him in jail.
I have been against Hotz and his rantings from the very beginning. After his 'deal' with Sony in court, anything he writes now is just hot air as far as I am concerned. He had a chance to say those things in court, but didn't. As far as I am concerned, Sony was protecting their IP by removing the OtherOS feature.
George Hotz, please go away and never come back. You are a media leech and a moron.
See GeoHotz doesnt scare me or Sony. There he is saying this isnt the end.
George. This is the end. YOU ARE DONE. It's called moving on with your life!
lol i just wish sony didnt give him the easy way out, but alteast even if he thinks of hacking ever again its a one way prison trip for mr hotz, you have to give sony praise for being mature over this situation and the only butthurt liar out of all this is mr hotz.
I find it funny hes complaining about OtherOS when the REAL gamers are angry about the removal of backwards compatibility. It`s only his kind that give a shit about a feature that nobody used in the first place.
i like how Sony are "liars".
but, we all know that 90% of hackers are not hacking the PS3 because of "homebrew" but they all say they do.
its very easy for him to be mouthing off about sony now , about how shit they are etc. but why, if he thinks they are in the wrong so much did he agree a settlement? instead of talking shit now, he should of been fighting in court for what he believes in, not agreeing settlements and saying everything is fine, only to bitch on the internet about stuff.
all you people saying "sony is stepping on our rights blah blah blah" are sooooooo annoying. what is a ps3 for? its a gaming console, that plays video games. Thats what its for and as soon as sony gives your more (internet browsing, media storage, blue ray etc etc) you bitch and complain because you can't modify it the way you want it. If thats what you want to do, go buy a pc. THE PLAYSTATION 3 IS NOT YOUR PC, so stop talking like it is.
Getting tired of seeing this dumbass's face every time I come here.
Wish there was a way to filter out geohot articles.
Please stop writing about this already resolved issue. The more attention you give trolls, the more they troll
In order to settle this whole dispute, you have to go back to the basics...
Example:
I'm selling apples from a cart I built that were cultivated on a farm I own... I make my first sell to a hungry customer... in return, he gives me money... (this is a simple transaction) THAT APPLE IS NOW HIS! He may do with it what he pleases! Now... whether or not what he does with it is LEGAL or not is where it gets complicated.... Let's say that the man that bought the apple is a serial killer who is poisoning random people by slipping apples into the local market place. NOW The seller has a problem. In order to protect further sells of his product, he must asses the cause of the corruption of his product. Now... let's flip this around to what Geohot is doing....
Sony (the apple seller) gave a customer (geohot) a product. This product came with a set of conditions (terms of agreement) to follow. If they were NOT followed, the product could be seized by Sony, and legal action would be taken. Notice that in the example above, the serial killer DOES NOT GET HIS MONEY BACK! And having that apple WAS a privilege allowed to him by the seller, because the seller DID NOT have to sell him that apple. So Geohot... PLEASE shut up, before you make yourself sound even more stupid than you already are! This is economics... something you probably don't understand...
well, as long as we're all doing ridiculous analogies, how about this one for you?
Ford sells me a car.
i find out how to easily break into the car and then tell everyone (but, Ford) how to break into the car.
there are way more consequences than you are willing to admit.
no one has the right to do absolutely anything they want. get over it.
lol ur making my point. It's like buying a gun and killing an innocent person with it. (Of course... guns are protected by the 2nd amendment) He's showing people how to break the Terms of Agreement, which he was supposed to read BEFORE HE MADE A PSN ACCOUNT! As I stated in the analogy. In order for Sony to protect the future and fidelity of their product they have to eliminate the corruption of their product, and they have the right to do it through legal action, because it was protected by the Terms Of Agreement.
Who keeps approving this stuff? I know its not me but somehow there is a new story, same mugshot of this goof every time I come here! Someone tell him that I said to STFU!
Media attention whore. I guess having 6 PS3 but not a PSN, and not knowing that SCEA existed is how he tells the truth. This guy is out for one thing... fame and credit. That's all he's about. Everything he talks about free speech and rights is him full of bullshit. Sony should sue him again. This time for using the case and his "celebrity" for slander and making money off of interviews by tarnishing Sony's name. That would be a good laugh. You'd think he would have learned his lesson to STFU, and stay out of the spotlight. But this is what he's all about. He no longer needs to play the underdog, he can run his mouth and act like a tough guy again. Yet he couldn't tough it out. Go rap about it. That's how you show us you're serious. He's a disgrace. Wonder how much he got paid for this interview?
This guy is in a desperate need of attention, someone give him a pacifier so he can stop crying over spilled milk!
I don't see what is so hard to understand. You own the PS3. You can do you physically want with it. But it is a tool given to you to access Sony's resourses. The copyrights, resourses, PSN and everything else belong to Sony. You can't do things like enable trophy cheats and copy games. You are interfering with systems they put in place. Sony has seen where allowing these type of hacks and security breaks lead to. It all good for everyone to say 'I won't cheat, I won't steal, I won't disrupt'. But you don't speak for everyone. It's easy to say 'Sony just deal with it' But it means more work, more resourses geing used to battle the annoyances this brings.
And for the last and final time Sony told you in the agreement you signed that they have the right to remove things if they see it fit to do so. Get over it. You shouldn't sign things before you read them. You don't know why Sony put this rule in place or understand fully the reasons behind it. Geohot could very well be lying
I wish ill will on more than half of you on here. It's ok to like your console and still have a problem with what GeoHot says Sony is trying to do. Wake up you corporate shills.
I bet Sony will learn to just release a more closed system next time. They opened the system up a bit, and it got abused. They closed it a bit after it got abused and people whined about the feature being removed (not that more than 10 people used it in the first place).
The only solution I see is to just release a closed product in the first place. That way it won't be as easy to exploit, and there won't be anything to take away later.
I dont' consider myself to be a violent person at all. As a matter of fact, i've only gotten into fights 6 years ago in middle school which I didn't even start. But if I see this guy on the street, I WILL JUMP HIM!
I knew this child would do something stupid. He will do something even more stupid in the coming months, iam sure of it. Kids just dont know when to ****ing give up!
Sooo the basement dweller came out to rant out of his hidey-hole. Why do we care?
Geo get the hell off my internetz why are we giving this idiot airtime by constantly approving articles about him? Come on people shall we move on so this bottom feeder can find an audience elsewhere.
"...When OtherOS was first removed, I had no doubt it was due to the hypervisor exploit. I mean, that’s plausible, and it’s what Sony said. But then I started to reconsider. OtherOS removal is a completely stupid step considering no one had even done anything with the hack yet. And the exploit was totally patchable...."
Why should sony have to put resources into something you caused? Patches take time, software engineers and money to develop. Almost everything is patchable. It was a good strategic and business decision to remove it. However, you caused it you idiot. Can you not see that? Look at all the patches we've had since the route key got posted on your blog. How does this benefit us? These guys contradict themselves. I feel sorry for his ignorant supporters.
This is never going to end right?
I am so sick of this guy......
This guy needs to get a life already. It's actually kinda sad how pathetic he is.
wasnt he "not worried" and "guaranteed he'll win" "just like Apple" LOL get smacked kid.
I'm not sure how this guy is a looser...I bet you plenty on here have jail broken Iphones.This guy got a slap on the wrist...there is good reason.
Sony is a business that employs thousands of people, it feeds their families, clothes them and gives them security. Some little jerk who has never done a days work in his life thinks he can steal other peoples hard work and then hide behind his "RIGHTS'....f**k off.
Lock the little jerk up.
Nice hopefully goes well!
this mofo
Edit: nvm, he had been hired by Facebook right after his 3.55 hack
this genius who has brought me many great free games last gen now work on ps4 sonyboy.
or hack prcies on psn store to 10 bux for everything secretly
for fall lineup bcuz my wallet is to darn broke to afford all this im already in process trying to sell 1 my kids to china to cover my addiciton for this holiday season.
dont make it where i have to sell my wife also lol this is all jokeng.
yea geohot is where he belongs him hacking ps3 was kool but ostalgia of that wore offn ovember 15th with launch of ps4
Sony should have hired him to prevent a possible PS4 hack.