Xbox One's eSRAM Issues Were Little And Not Too Bad: Lionhead Studios

Ever since the Xbox One was introduced and its internal hardware revealed, speculation had been running wild that the console's eSRAM is holding it back.

[CaptainObvious878]

So many conflicting statements. Who do we believe?

[gameseveryday]

Believe the developers who are working on the Xbox One [exclusively or multiplatform]

[NextLevel]

Xbox One Exclusives.

Dead Rising 3 720p @ 30fps
Forza Motorsport 5 1080p @ 60fps (Downgraded)
Killer Instinct 720p @ 60fps
Kinect Sports Rivals 1080p @ 30fps 
Ryse: Son of Rome 900p @ 30fps
Sunset Overdrive 900p @ 30fps

They have a 33% chance of being 1080p and a 16% chance if they're not downgraded like Forza 5 was. Those are the numbers, considering 100% of PS4 exclusives are 1080p, I'd say that there might be a problem. It might be the eSRAM, might be the GPU, but there is definitely a problem.

PS4 Exclusives

DriveClub 1080p @ 30fps
Infamous: Second Son 1080p @ 30fps
Killzone: Shadow Fall 1080p @ 30fps (SP), ~960x1080p @ 60fps (MP)
Knack 1080p @ 30fps
The Order: 1886 1080p @ 30fps
http://tay.kotaku.com/why-t...
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End 1080p @ 60fps

Please don't start listing cross gen games. I get it, the Xbox One runs some them in 1080p. I'm talking about exclusives.

@Kayant

I didn't realise discussing tech, was such a problem. 99% is not opinion.

[Kayant]

@NextLevel

http://news.techgenie.com/f...

[Volkama]

GDDR5 is very different to DDR5. GDDR5 is based on DDR3, but more suited to graphics (textures in particular) because of it's higher bandwidth at the expense of timings.

DDR5 will be 2 generations up from that, assuming we do get another iteration after DDR4.

Only pointing that out because I've seen you use DDR5 more than once, otherwise I'd just assume it was a typo.

On-topic, it will be very interesting to see how this game performs in terms of framerate, resolution, and particularly image quality. Not because the usual fanboy bickering is fun, but because this is an Unreal Engine 4 game so the performance will be a good metric for what we can expect from a multitude of other games.

[Studio-YaMi]

@NextLevel
"considering 100% of PS4 exclusives are 1080p"

No,while MOST of the PS4 games are 1080p,it's NOT 100%.

Stop spreading false information & stop copy pasting that comment in every article.

[EvilWay]

@NextLevel

Who cares if the game isn't 1080p, the games still look a crap ton better than last generation, and as long as each generation is better than the last I am okay with that. If I only cared about 1080p/60fps and better console horsepower I would be playing on PC since it is infinitely superior in those departments.

I have had a blast with my Xbox One and its inferior games and I know a lot of other have as well, and that is what it is all about. We should argue about who has the better games, instead of what resolution and frame rate they are running in.

Stop spreading BS and enjoy your damn system of choice.

[The_Hero]

Lionhead: "We work for Microsoft and they some need damage control"

[BitbyDeath]

@NextLevel,

Battlefield 4 and Watchdogs are not 1080p on PS4, so not 100%.

[alexkoepp]

Author clearly has a PS4 bias based on his commentary - and clearly doesn't know DDR3 vs DDR5 vs GDDR5.

That being said its the standard developer saying esRAM isn't too bad to work with, just a learning experience.

[BallsEye]

@NextLevel

Funny how you said FORZA downgraded but didn't mention it by KZ, The Order and Infamous.

Btw half of that list on ps4 is not even out. So what are you playing/gonna play this year? I'm having a blast with XO exclusives...ps4 collects dust after I've finished mediacore KZ campaign.

[Kayant]

It depends on the game and features being used and like Rashid Sayed said listen to devs.

Eg.

"Krzysztof Narkowicz: On Xbox 360 eDRAM usage was required for every rendering pass, so it was crucial to fit there. That’s also why many games had strange subHD resolutions like 1280×672. With Xbox One it’s a bit different. eSRAM works like an optional additional cache. It just accelerates selected memory operations and there isn’t some hard limit like on Xbox 360.
Of course people are scaling down resolution, because the more stuff fits in eSRAM the better performance. We manually manage eSRAM during every rendering pass, moving data between eSRAM and DRAM from time to time. Every time trying to fully utilize available eSRAM for bandwidth heavy operations."

http://gamingbolt.com/shado...

“It is true that the eSRAM is pretty small for 1080p, you never seemed to have enough of it,” explains Philippe Morin who is the founder of Red Barrel Games. “But since Unreal Engine 3 is a good old forward renderer, we did not need as much as some of the other games using deferred shading,” he said to GamingBolt."

http://gamingbolt.com/outla...

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

No body ever goes in depth with this stuff? June's X1 SDK featured 2 major changes, one is the obvious 10% GPU allocation free-up which will help with performance and the second is the DX11.2 API update. DX11.2 is the version that supports Tiled Resources and Frame compression, 32 MB is the exact amount of space necessary to store one 4x MSAA 32 bpp 1080p frame buffer, so this should help with more 1080p games as well. DX12 is rumored to run the same frame buffer at only 16 MB of ESRAM being utilized. Hopefully 1080p will not be a problem in the near future :)

[fr0sty]

The problem is, more than just the frame buffer needs access to high bandwidth.

[SilentNegotiator]

Not Microsoft themselves (Lionhead, Rare, etc). Of course they're going to say that there were no issues.

BTW, did you guys know that SilentNegotiator has no faults? lol

[lfc_4eva]

Believe the people who are working on developing xb1 games, and more importantly devs who are working much closer such as 1st party. These guys have the most experience with the architecture, not any old dev that a sony fanboy journo can get a smack down comment from.

[Christopher]

I'd only believe the end results. Nothing else.

And, even then, there will be a lot of subjectivity in the results (just look at how people think of Ryse or Second Son). But, the individual can get the truth that they desire from said results.

[SpideySpeakz]

Damage control.
They are MS PRs. Can't trust a word they say.

[Zombro]

But who cares I'm mean really both consoles have different games so it depends what you like there isn't a wrong choice shit I have both but I'm still playing last gen games

[FanboyKilla]

who should we believe? lmfao why should we care? and why is the negative xone article the hottest thing on n4g. lmfao playstation nation. like i said before haten nation. lmfao exposed for who you really are.

[Pogmathoin]

Believe Maria..... So possessed over something it will never own..... Must be true then.

[marcofdeath]

Here is one 360 did 1080p and it had even less edram.
Are you people fucking stupid? Of coarse it's hard!!!
Microsoft did not build a machine that could be maxed out in the weeks. Xbox one is a complicated architecture. That's why it's hard. Have you ever seen architecture with 6 main different pools of memory that all work as one?

No! Gamerbolt is Fox news you. Reality check DriverClub can't do 60 fps and it has GDDR5. in context he didn't say that it's a bottleneck he said it was hard to do...
FROM: Sony
Too: Gamerboit,
PAGE 13.
http://develop.scee.net/fil...
135GB/s that's the FACTs.

[marcofdeath]

@NextLevel

there is not one Sony first party exclusive that is running at 1080p 60fps.

DriveClub 1080p @ 30fps (Downgrade to outrun)
Infamous: Second Son 1080p @ 30fps (Downgrade "lighting")
Killzone: Shadow Fall 1080p @ 30fps (SP), ~960x1080p @ 60fps (MP) Still not (1080p ,60fps)
Knack 1080p @ 30fps (just a bad game, still not 60fps WHY?)
The Order: 1886 1080p @ 30fps (Not 1080p Black bars 800p at best downgrade on textuers)

like i said NO first party exclusive at 60fps.

XB1 has one........

[Christopher]

Why do people keep calling KZ:SF 960x1080p? It's still, every frame, 1080p. It's just not native. The graphics are still putting out a 1080p image every frame, though. The difference is it's not a 'native' 1080p image since half of them are held over from one frame to another. But, it's still a 1080p frame processed and sent to your screen.

Anyway, back to your usual "what one title makes my console better than yours" argument.

[larrysdirtydrawss]

they're not gonna bad mouth the console they're making a game for..the fact he hinted at it in the first place(''a little''),means its probably worse than that

[Lennoxb63]

I believe devs in MS camp have been working with ESRAM a lot longer than others.

[Dehnus]

The statement is not conflicting, Stardock has said before that if you use ESRAM efficiently you should just be able to hit 1080P and that it isn't that hard to work with.

They also said MS Cheaped out on the DDR3 Ram. With that everybody can agree. However clickbaiting journalists are trolling this into a Hindenburg for more clicks.

[TheRedButterfly]

There are multiple people who we /can/ believe, but the ones we should refrain from trusting are the Sony-exclusive naysayers. (Naughty Dog devs seem to be pretty bad about this.)

Not that these people aren't trustworthy, but regardless of how much experience they have in dev/tech, they aren't working with MS's dev kits and/or hardware, so they really can only speculate. I say leave it to the people who are actually using the tech to say whether or not it's "functionable."

[Zombro]

Lol I know right but dosent matter since I'm playing bl2 on last gen

[NextLevel]

"Who do we believe?"

Lionhead themselves.

"Fable Legends Currently Running Under 1080p At 30fps, May Change In The Final Release"
http://gamingbolt.com/fable...

May change, probably won't. Just like Titanfall.

"Titanfall on Xbox One 'likely' to get resolution increase, Respawn says"
http://www.polygon.com/2014...

[DanzoSAMA]

so it's not confirmed yet. and don't worry this game will run At 1080p like Forza H2 & Destiny and many others games bigger than Fable L.

[daBUSHwhaka]

Oh man,you need to get out more.Ps shits on it gamers and you really do believe it's caviar

[DVS-Zev]

People seem thing think esram is the only issue but forget that the PS4's GPU is literally twice as powerful in comparison.Esram doesn't help but a low tier GPU isn't some easy fix or workaround either.

The sooner we all come to terms with the fact X1 will forever be the weaker console the sooner we can stop beating this dead horse.

I'm not saying being the weaker console is a bad thing either.My laptop ain't the best but i play the games i love on it just fine and it doesn't ruin the experience for me.

[Hellsvacancy]

Yeah man, I play Starcraft 2 on my laptop from time to time, sometimes the frame rate goes down to 6fps, I kinda have to wait for it fix itself, I have all the settings on the lowest available, I either have to play it like that, or not play it at all

I LOVE the game no less

[Volkama]

Possibly because it isn't "literally twice as powerful". It is more powerful. It is capable of literally twice as many ROPS. But ROPS aren't the definitive measure of power.

Or if we are playing some weird fanboy top trumps game, then I choose my PC, and teraflops. I have about 11. So I get to keep your PS4.

[DVS-Zev]

It's more then just ROPS
http://www.gamechup.com/wp-...

"Or if we are playing some weird fanboy top trumps game"

We're not.And it's sad you came to that conclusion from my comment.No wonder you only have three bubbles.You seem to be a very insecure guy who can't have a rational or coherent discussion based on some of your previous comments.

[lfc_4eva]

@Volkama.

Funny stuff. You're wasting your time trying to educate console warriors with pc architecture. They see only numbers, and a number twice as big automatically means twice the power in their reasoning.

[zeuanimals]

The PS4's GPU is 50% more powerful, not twice as powerful.

[thisismyaccount]

True that. The PS4 has like the Power of the XB1 GPU with an additional extra "gpu" with close to 500 more shaders + twice as many render untis + 8 ACE"ngines"(GPGPU) instead of the 2 ACE + 4 (motion engines) of the XB1.

[MelvinTheGreat]

ps4 is not twice as powerful. its gpu isnt twice as powerful, its ram isnt twice as powerful. please stop bringing up the ps4 in an xb1 article

[04STIBluByU]

@Melvin

No one will ever stop bringing up the PS4 in and XB1 article and vice versa! The reason article's like these exist is to start flame wars. No drama = no money!

[Skate-AK]

The PS4 has GDDR5 Ram. Not DDR5.

[BG11579]

And the difference is?

[Dudebro90]

Only everything...

[ainsleyharriott]

DDR5 doesn't exist yet. GDDR5 is just a modified version of DDR3. They both have advantages an disadvantages in certain situations.

[lsujester]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gddr+v...

[BG11579]

Thank you Isujester, that was ewactly what I have done.

So DDR5 doesn't exist yet. Comparisons of DDR and GDDR are been made using DDR3 and GDDR5.
The next DDR memory will be DDR4 and it isn't on sale yet.
So when DDR5 comes out in ten years, yeah, it's true that it will be better than what we have now.
But apart the latency, aren't GDDR5 better than DDR3 in the graphical department? The "G" does stand for graphics right?

Still, why are we stalking of the PS4 here?

[Christopher]

Short and simple, BG11579

DDR3 = CPU focused and best for faster CPU processing

GDDR5 = GPU focused and best for faster GPU processing

Both CPU and GPU are very important to gaming. GPU is just the one that makes it easier to get 1080p and pretty effects. But, graphics don't make the game, you need both.

[snookiegamer]

@Kayant "Funny"

http://news.techgenie.com/f...

Conflicting yes! Who do you listen to? ...Don't listen to no-one, least of all NextLevel.

Just enjoy your Xbox One. It has a great future ahead.

[Hellsvacancy]

A ton of comments repeating what they said in previous articles of the same nature

Why do I even bother looking, curiosity? boredom most likely

[GodGinrai]

Because talking about Xb1 is more interesting than playing sony exclusives it seems. Shame really..Resogun is a good game.

[mcarsehat]

Hearing about resolution is a bit like chart music, no one should care but it seems unbelievably popular thanks to the morons that are still attracted to it.

[RosettaStoned]

People need to stop looking as devs as if they're on equal footing, each with similar skills. They're not conflicting reports... they're differences in vision, overall scope, expertise, game mechanics, goals, etc.

Play the game for it's purpose... to have fun.

[Gore-Content]

Of couse they would way that. Lionhead belong to MS, aren't they? Or at least they're buddy buddy with them.

[corroios]

So, if they dont have problems esram, this means that the game will run at 1080/60 with no problems.

[RAGE91]

This is so embarrassing to see people arguing about Resolution. I remember when I was younger and owning a Sega console and a PS1 and just generally enjoying the games!

Other than technology advancing greatly since the 90's Gaming era, what has happened to turn some people into resolution fanatics?!

[ritsuka666]

Nothing have change. There's a fanboy wars in all gen.. i remember in the 16 bits era people fighting each other about Mortal Kombat be better in Snes than Genesis console.

[TheRacingX]

I bought an SNES because of that...(sniff).... .good times.....(tears)

[Agent_hitman]

I guess they're trying to emphasize the importance of ESRAM even though it the has small amount of it..

[Kennytaur]

It should be a case of optimising the bytes per pixel, I wonder how big a difference tiled resources could bring?

[Revengeance]

Of course a first party studio for MS would say that. They're backing their project. Only indies and third parties have the balls to speak out against them.

[Mkai28]

Prime example of someone looking for strife where there is none, nor did anyone bring up its competitor. Best advice is to avoid ppl like this and don't respond or go to there submitted articles..
Enjoy your games people, avoid conflict. I declare DEATH TO THE FANBOYS!! Because every dev think it's there duty to state what resolution their game is @, because of some fanbum who has personal issues with a product. This is a disorder and it's called fanboyism, it's a religion.. What they defend is their plastic god, its there god because they put it before anything else.
NextLevel + 9h ago
Xbox One Exclusives.

Dead Rising 3 720p @ 30fps
Forza Motorsport 5 1080p @ 60fps (Downgraded)
Killer Instinct 720p @ 60fps
Kinect Sports Rivals 1080p @ 30fps
Ryse: Son of Rome 900p @ 30fps
Sunset Overdrive 900p @ 30fps

They have a 33% chance of being 1080p and a 16% chance if they're not downgraded like Forza 5 was. Those are the numbers, considering 100% of PS4 exclusives are 1080p, I'd say that there might be a problem. It might be the eSRAM, might be the GPU, but there is definitely a problem.

PS4 Exclusives

DriveClub 1080p @ 30fps
Infamous: Second Son 1080p @ 30fps
Killzone: Shadow Fall 1080p @ 30fps (SP), ~960x1080p @ 60fps (MP)
Knack 1080p @ 30fps
The Order: 1886 1080p @ 30fps
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End 1080p @ 60fps

Please don't start listing cross gen games. I get it, the Xbox One runs some them in 1080p. I'm talking about exclusives.

@Kayant

I didn't realise discussing tech, was such a problem. 99% is not opinion.

[QuickdrawMcgraw]

1st time I have heard a developer...Who is working on Xbox1 exclusive admit there is some issues...interesting...

[marcofdeath]

He said it's hard to do! Not that it's a issue......
What part of this don't get?
"it’s a good platform to develop for.”

[FayZ_]

there are ps4 games that are sub hd, (watch dogs, bf4, killzone mp) it's really not a big deal aslong as it's 900p min, the difference between 1080p & 900p are pretty small, i think this gen every dev should use 900p and use the other resources for better effects etc.

the biggest disappointments are mgs, bf4 & ghosts being 720p on xbone but i think thats just lazy devs,

if you look at the new games like halo, forza h2, destiny their hitting 1080p easily sunset decided to use the gpu boost for better effects which is a good move.

fanboys give it a rest, i own both but i can see why sony fans are scared if xbone is hiiting 1080p more frequently, it will leave ps4 nothing special to brag about unless you enjoy it's vast indie collection. sure it will always have an advantage but it's becoming more & more less noticeable

[mahmoods26]

Because of its art style its not a graphically intensive game. About the same level as plants vs zombies garden warfare I'd say. It shouldn't have issues doing 1080p.

[Artemidorus]

More proof certain devs are lazy.

[saber00005]

Let's not forget that good specs are just for graphics and resolution. Don't forget about the actual engine itself! The engine itself uses a crap ton of resources.