Microsoft Explains why the Xbox One’s ESRAM is a “Huge Win” and Allows Reaching 1080p/60 FPS

During a livestreamed presentation at Build Xbox One Team Partner Development Lead Frank Savage explained in detail how the much discussed ESRAM of the Xbox One works, also explaining that it’s something that can help developer reach the fabled 1080p resolution goal or 60 frames per second with their games.

[NYC_Gamer]

MS needs to stop talking and just get those updated kits into developers hands already..They should let performance speak instead of getting on stage trying to convince people.

[darthv72]

Agreed but they still have to do their part to reassure devs that such performance improvements are possible.

Basically they have to do both...talk it up and show it up. otherwise the devs wont soak it up.

[Army_of_Darkness]

This is what I sound like when I hear all this talk and no action from MS....

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[joab777]

Sony can also tell ppl why their ram works so well...oh wait...thet dont have to... cuz it does.

[GameNameFame]

All talk no result. People have gone over Specs.

How much more magic sauce do we need?

Results and spec proves why X1 cant handle 1080P or strong graphics.

[fr0sty]

ESRAM is such a huge win that a 2.5D fighting game had to run at 720p!

ESRAM is a bottleneck designed to reduce the performance hit of another bottleneck. It's the same thing EDRAM in 360 was, just a little more of it (22mb more to be exact). It is nothing new to developers, nor is it incredibly difficult to use.

Microsoft also seems to forget about those missing compute units, asynchronous compute engines, texture units, and render output pipelines.

They weren't even able to hit a solid 60fps with Titanfall, not even close... running at way below 1080p.

They need to quit running their mouths publicly and just focus on their SDKs. They can make that ESRAM a little less of a pain for developers, though they'll never bridge the gap.

[morganfell]

"I agree, if you told my grandad that we would all be walking around with mini computers and be able to talk to each other when we wanted, he would of told me to stop talking crazy and to him it would of been somthin out of Star Trek!"

You do realize it is a different computer these people are walking around with right? You understand the abacus or the old IBM 5000 lb vaccuum tube monster isn't the same handlheld people are carrying, you get that don't you?

[Eddie20101]

Even though I think all this talk of cloud computing and ESRam is a joke. The bigger issue is, Why did Microsoft make a system that as of now is inferior to PS4 and has games that are technically inferior and then tell people that it's going to be a super computer in two years time because of ESRam and the cloud and DirectX12? Seems like the stupidest move in the world to me, unless it's just PR talk and they are trying to Keep people from buying a PS4. Still stupid.

The demo that all Microsoft fanboys are so excited about was a joke too. Nvidia has ten year old demos that were better than that and they ran on ten year old hardware. They were saying their demo ran on high end machines, looked like it was running on just the CPU to me. Smoke and mirrors and a lot of double talk.

Microsoft needs to stop talking and really show something that can prove what they are saying can be done, because so far they have not impressed me at all.

I have not seen one developer praise Xbox One over the PS4 in fact it has been the opposite most of the time.

You would think if the cloud and ESRam and DirectX12 were as powerful as Microsoft is trying to make people believe that developers would be singing to the heavens about it.

[UltimateMaster]

Waiting to see results, without visual downgrade.

[ProjectVulcan]

It's such a dramatic win that Xbox One is constantly beating it's rival on multiformat titles.

I....I just can't help but facepalm sometimes.

I'm quite sure Microsoft mean well, but half the time its like watching Comical Ali insist there is no Coalition forces advancing on Baghdad.

Someone get these people a dictionary with the word 'Truism' in it, for the love of God.

[LexHazard79]

Yo Darth72, for sec there It seemed like you was gonna start rapping there at the end.

[PoSTedUP]

MS are stupid (in a sense). if this isnt going to be easier to progam for compared to the ps4, X1 will get shafted by devs and choose the ps4 for lead development. will they want to have to program a game twice for optimization? just ask the PS3. by the time their exclusives get up and running on this thing, as well as optimized multiplats, PS4 would already have blown X1 out of the water. this, on top of seeing many other holes in this tactic, isnt going to work well from whati understand (which isnt a lot, tho). they better implement this perfectly or it could be a disaster.

[tbone567]

Combine this with the power of the Azure cloud and Direct X 12 along with Microsoft Threshold in 2015. Xbox will reach heights never seen before. Absolutely exciting news. Can't wait.

[Ritsujun]

Dat DC.
http://cdn.dualshockers.com...

[kneon]

@postedup

The article makes it quite obvious that the esram makes it much more complicated to program for the xb1. But that should have been obvious the anyone who understands programming.

The title is just wrong and doesn't correlate with the quotes at all. This is more a list of limitations than advantages.

@tbone567 obviously you didn't understand the real implications of what is in those quotes.

[incendy35]

Forza 5 did plenty of talking. It is the ONLY AAA exclusive that is running 1080p and 60fps.

[kneon]

Yes but they gave up a lot to reach that target.

[-Foxtrot]

Yet compared to Forza 4 it's lacking so much in terms of content...how it got good reviews for being inferior on actual content I'll never know.

[scott182]

Using Forza 5 to make a point about the overall power of a system is not a good look. Resogun is an Indie game and obviously accomplishes more technically.

[guyman]

Don't even go there... just stop

EDIT: Tomb raider PS4 says: "what up, b***h"

[Deadpoolio]

Yet EVERY PS4 game is NATIVE 1080p with the exception of Battlefield 4 and it's still a higher rez than the 720p version......YES KZ MP IS 1080p it's interlaced specially to get the 1080p. The SP is still native 1080p also..

Or should we mention how 100% of multiplats are CONFIRMED FACT to not only look better on PS4 in 1080p, but also perform better on PS4....FACT, EVERY comparison leans big towards PS4

[FullMetalTech]

Yeah but that cutout crowd looks really bad as well as some parts of the game. Obviously there was a downside to get to 1080p/60.

[palaeomerus]

".YES KZ MP IS 1080p it's interlaced specially to get the 1080p."

And you obviously don't have any idea what 1080P means. It means 1920 x 1080 native rendering and NOT INTERLACED.

[Honest_gamer]

@palaeomerus

"And you obviously don't have any idea what 1080P means. It means 1920 x 1080 native rendering and NOT INTERLACED."

Clearly you both don't know what your talking about 1080P is 1920x1080 progressive 1080I is 1920x1080 INTERLACED

Both I and P are "native" it is just a different rendering option, some tv's take a P signal and make them I, others take the I and make them P, and some do both, with mine i dont like the I as it looks like its jittering however on my old TV the I signal looked much better than the P signal

[Kennytaur]

Apparently, most people can't understand the meaning behind the word "only" in all caps. I'm not even a native English speaker, and I got it right away. It's not what you read, but how you read it. People on this site are way too trigger-happy.

Basically, every "disagree" should have been an "agree".

[Bigpappy]

Now they are talking about giving up stuff.

Yet the same people ignore Killzone's lackluster effort in game play, and Infamous being advertised as an opened world game yet is seriously lacking in content. Neither running at 1080p/60fps as you pointed out.

1080p is great if everything else is great. By itself it is a dumb idea. I have played Forza or those PS4 exclusives, but I have read about trade offs for them all.

[pyramidshead]

Are you one of those hardcore fanboys that couldn't distinguish the massive bait and switch Microsoft did from the Forza that was shown at E3 to end product?

You are their perfect customer if true. :)

[dantesparda]

@incendy35

"Forza 5 did plenty of talking. It is the ONLY AAA exclusive that is running 1080p and 60fps"

Yeah and? Ridge Racer on PS3 is 1080p and 60fps.

[SegaGamer]

Forza.....i honestly can't think of something more boring. It's just the same thing over and over again.

[incendy35]

A lot of delusional people disagreeing with facts I see.

[dantesparda]

The only "delusional" one here is you thinking your point makes any kind of strong point about the X1's power. Answer me this, wouldnt the PS4 be able to do Forza 5 even better? You honestly think them going DDR3 and having to use eSRAM as a crutch wasnt a bad idea/design? If not, then you might be a fanboy

And when you have 95 people disagree with you to your 34 agress, you may wanna rethink who's delusional

[incendy35]

@DelusionalFanboys: ESRAM is the fastest memory on next generation systems. Is DDR5 faster than ESRAM? No. Is DDR5 faster than DDR3? Yes. Does it matter? Depends.

In writing game code you basically are doing two things. 1: you are preparing what will be displayed on the screen and 2: you are displaying what you prepared. For most of step 1, DDR3 is plenty fast "the cpu is limited by the system bus bandwidth which is 10GB/s on PS4 and 30GB/s on X1", faster than either system is capable of reading and writing to from the CPU. Even on PC games they use DDR3 for many parts of this step as the CPU is better at doing computational tasks before handing them off to the GPU to loop through what is prepared to be shown. PC's need more GPU memory though, because on a traditional PC the memory is not unified and has to be handed back and forth, not the case on the PS4 or the X1.

What do you need the fast memory for then? The fast memory comes into play for applying gpu effects, such as AA, reflections on each draw etc. How much of this fast memory do you really need? Well that depends on your code and how efficient you are with it. Technically only "approximately" 16mb of memory can be used for a 1080p frame, 12 mb for 900p and 8mb for 720p frame. And this is assuming you are updating all the bits for each draw "so a maximum value". X1 uses 32mb of ESRAM as a super speed cache, which is plenty of memory to hold two draws to update at a time on 1080p.

So why are some multiplat games running faster on the PS4 right now? The reason is the PS4 model is closer to the PC model. Porting a game to the PS4 means they don't need to be efficient with the memory usage which with the X1 they do but neither system is being utilized the way they should because of the lack of parallel operations in PC code.

In PC's the CPU and the GPU are basically two separate entities that pass memory back and forth to each other. CPU does work, hands it off to the GPU, and vice versa. On the X1 and the PS4 this is not necessary, both the CPU and the GPU can work on the same bits which allows for "according to AMD" 2.4 times better performance.

Are games taking advantage of parallel computing yet? Yes, but it is still in the early stages. Code/engines optimized for PC are still a long ways from being optimized for the PS4 and the Xbox One.

[mcgrottys]

With this comment, people go from graphics being more important to content being the most important.

Make up your minds people.

Besides the reason why it got great reviews was for game play, it is a FUN racing sim, why? because it has amazing driving physics (because it tries to be a sim) and the AI is crazy fun to drive against. Look at a video of forza 5 and show me another racing game with comparable AI because you won't find one at least until maybe E3.

And about the number of cars. I don't think I drove more than 70 in forza 3 and I mainly stuck the dozen cars that I liked the most. Sure having more cars would be nice but I'm not going to bitch and moan like a spoiled 13 year old getting an iphone 5c instead of a 5s because he isn't getting more than he needs to be happy.

[DoggyBiscuit]

The only reason Forza is running @ 1080p 60fps is because is racing game even the Wii U could have a Racing game running at the same Resolution and frame rate

[Magicite]

''Frank Savage explained in detail how ESRAM can help developer reach the 1080p OR 60 frames per second with their games.''
-meanwhile most developers are praising PS4 and how easy is to work with it.

[Azfargh]

And not to mention is an online service and not free.

[Trekster_Gamer]

They are doing this. MS is being very transparent, and open in explaining things.

They have come a long way since last years E3 mistakes.

[FriedGoat]

Since when did pretending that the bad ram design on the xbox doesn't exist become being transparent? Some people are just in so much denial it's unreal.

Microsoft are so slimy, it gets irritating when all these sympathisers are so stupid and let them get away with their PR bull and lies.

[JsonHenry]

Don't explain it to me. Explain it to the devs.

[Bzone24]

They are explaining it to the devs. They aren't explaining it to you.

[Geoff900]

I wish they did hurry up, but like everything software nowadays they take their time.

[NextGen24Gamer]

DMA engines, Direct Memory Access, special registers that pull push data around with their own que system separate of the CPU. ie: MS's custom "MOVE ENGINES" on the X1 SoC are what is being referred to here.

They are saying they omitted the ability for the CPU to access the ESRAM because they have (four iirc) move engines that can do this concurrently without the CPU being bothered. This is a massive advantage in real world bandwidth and real world latency numbers for the system's combine ESRAM and DDR3.

Basically, the difference being the PS4 has two direct channels to memory (CPU+GPU) that can write concurrently but both require the commands to be cached, the Xbox has far more options (CPU to DD3, GPU to DD3, GPU to ESRAM, Move engines to ESRAM, Move engines to DDR3) of which some can read/write/copy concurrently.

This is only a big deal if an engine is designed to access them. On the PS4, nothing needs to be done to get full speed, but that also means there is the less potential for optimization, the result is an immediate benefit for PS4, and a delayed on for X1. Expect big gains in new engines and poorer performance in old engines that do not utilize the concurrent read/write/move. Exactly what we are seeing with launch multiplats on old engines, and much better performance on games designed specifically for X1 (Ryse and Forza).

[ITPython]

Optimization isn't just devs learning how to use potentially complicated hardware, it's the devs refining their engines and playing around with the coding to make things run more efficiently, which means they can make games run and look better because they have more overhead to work with.

XB1 AND PS4 games will continually look better and better as time goes on, but the fact of the matter is... the XB1 is significantly less powerful in every aspect compared to the PS4. So even if the devs can master using ESRAM and everything else... it will still be way behind the PS4, even if the PS4 was at a stand-still from here on out. PS4 had a major boost right off the bat, and will maintain and increase that boost throughout the entire generation.

This isn't like the 360 and PS3, in which the PS3 was more powerful but harder to work with. The XB1 is less powerful AND harder to work with, it's going to be lose-lose all generation.

[rainslacker]

You say less potential for optimization. Don't you actually mean less need for optimization?

Taking what you say at face value, which I'll do to avoid doing more research right now, if you can get full speed now out of the PS4, but have to work more to get it out of the X1(through optimization), then what's the point? Why not just remove the bottleneck so there is no need for optimization.

Also, are you sure that the commands need to be cached on the PS4? That seems to go against some of the current programming principles that are surrounding game design nowadays, in particular tiled resources and all the technologies involved in making that more efficient.

I'm personally not seeing the advantage of having a small cache pool and how it can give "massive advantage in real world bandwidth" as that data has to be cached by default in order to be available on demand, instead of just getting it through DMA like the PS4 allows. It seems to me that that could be quite limiting as the game loop is continuously having to move data in and out of cache for it to remain relevant. The only advantage I see in your explanation is for when there are things that might need very fast speed, but don't require be held in memory for constant access within the game loop.

[Kribwalker]

Never saw you guys screaming to show us when sony claimed the PS3 could output 6 different 1080p streams at 120fps last gen, why scream now? Show a little more patience and a little less entitlement, it's coming, faster then you think too. I tell you what, if you believe the PS3 will have cross game chat before (promised for years from sony) before X1 games are 1080p and 60fps then agree, if you think the X1 will have 1080p 60fps before PS3 cross game chat then disagree. We can do a little poll here about who will honour their promise first

[Rhythmattic]

"if you believe the PS3 will have cross game chat before (promised for years from sony)"

I don't remember sony ever promising cgc, however I do remember it was expected and demanded by PS3 users.

[Magnes]

Did this story come out of a time machine from 2013?

[otherZinc]

@NYC_Gamer,

SONY's the one talking! Where's Drive Club?
M$ released Forza Motorsport 5, At:
1080p @ 60fps: never dropping a single frame!

If M$ & Turn 10 achieved 1080p 60fps by a trick or downgrades, why doesn't SONY do it with Drive Club? You know, since SONY & Anonymous Devs say the PS4 is so easy to develop for & soo powerful!

Where's Drive Club?: that's "Talk". Let us play a demo of Drive Club...something!

[imt558]

Reaching 1080p/60 fps at what cost, Microsoft. Please, stop bullshiting!

[Gamer666]

You need to stop talking like you know something when you don't.

I was at Build 2014 all week and have gone to almost every Build and (formerly) Professional Developers Conference since the late 90's. The talk they gave is no different then any other talk they give at Build. Build is about leading edge software development techniques using MS tools... NOT PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS... NOT GAMING...

They talk theoretically and give demos. I don't know why gamers are paying so much attention to Build. It is not about convincing gamers to buy systems or convincing gamers that MS is moving the X1 along.

Although they brought some game examples, it was more about educating programmers on the newest MS techniques and possibilities. They do this type of stuff at every Build for the myriad of products. It is DEVT focused not CONSUMER.

[MehmetAlperTR]

Huge win via 720P games... Do not think so .. LOL :)

[mrmarx]

exactly and how man devs already said esram is shit anyway.

[FanboyKilla]

Why? That is exactly what sony is doing. And their fans posting specs on n4g, with nothing we can see that demos even 50 percent of the power they say it has.

[Back-to-Back]

Software cannot make up for lacking hardware. The sooner you XBOX fans realize this the better you will be.

[Gamer1982]

They need to stop talking crap and look at REAL results. Its obviously not helping developers and is actually holding back the console to a point where most devs don't bother with it. Thus leads to differn't frame/resolutions for consoles. GDDR5 beats out DDR3 plus ESRAM any day of the week its that simple.

[staticdash22]

Here we go again, they really need to stop talking about this. Release games that show what is only possible through this method, and stop relying on the hype machine.

[Fireseed]

So, release games? Like right now? Just bump up the release date for Halo 5 to next week and we'll all be good?

I think people tend to forget that games take this thing called time to make... Which in the purview of your logic means the only course of action is for them to keep there mouths shut until their games launch. Just get up on stage at their Build conference (you know that lil thing where they talk about there tech) and literally say NOTHING. Great idea.

[staticdash22]

That's not what I'm saying. If microsoft was going to push cloud computing as an advantage you better have examples to back it up. It was up to them to release games that SHOWCASE this feature. They are suppose to show us what it's capable of at launch. Instead, we're stuck here still waiting while they once again tell us what the advantages are. Bad business logic. Just like Ryse was a graphical showcase, and "tech demo" for Xbox One, they should of had some games that showcase what can't be done on ps4 without those kind of servers.

[Samsara82]

This conference is aimed at devs and not us "common folk"... They do have to explain their products and vision to devellopers if they want them to make games for the platform.

[Godmars290]

Stop talking. Show games.

[Anon1974]

Exactly. Don't tell us, show us.

[AutoCad]

neither company has any games.
however i do know who has more exclusives out.

[HeWhoWalks]

@AutoCad: Um, both systems have games. It's irrelevant who has more out, however.

[Anon1974]

Yeah, I'm not really sure what AutoCad is getting at. This could be wrong but according to the wikipedia list both platforms have 9 exclusives each. PS4 has 59 playable games currently listed, Xbox One 35 games.

Not sure what the point is that he's trying to get at or how it's relevant to the above topic but both systems clearly have games available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[BlackTar187]

Except Autocad they do. The problem is your just being fickle. Xbox 1 has 1 retail exclusive more then ps4. PS4 has way more total games though.

They both have a decent amount of games you can play on them.
Xbox only fans love to set rules and lines in the sand. They always move though.

[-Foxtrot]

It's like going to show and tell day at school but you don't have anything to show.

Reminds me of American Dad

Avery Bullock: Dick, I believe you're up.

Dick: I don't have anything for show and tell. I just found out I have liver cancer.

Avery Bullock: I'm giving you a zero for the day.

[Ittoryu]

He means the god awful Wii U.

[Anon1974]

Ah. I often forget about the Wii U. I'm sure I'm not the only one. :)

[maniacmayhem]

So not one person in this comment section actually read the article?

"During a livestreamed presentation at Build, Xbox One Team Partner Development Lead,"

This was a developer conference not E3, not PAX and not anywhere else where they show new games, and not for the gaming press. This was for engineers and devs who talk about hardware specs and software.

And lets be honest, even if MS was to show most of you anything there would be a hundred more excuses from you all on why you don't believe them.

[Godmars290]

And its still going to boil down to them showing games when it comes to the public. As is this situation is only more of the same: MS showing off tools and expecting 3rd parties to utilize them. Games which wont be showing up for 2-3 years.

Edit:
Heck, its a sad statement in and of itself that MS is basically repeating or saying things they should have the last E3.

But then they canceled a lot of meeting then...

[Samsara82]

People don't seem to understand...build is for devs...of course we got to hear about everything discussed there and websites use it for flamebait

[Bzone24]

So you want them to stop talking to the devs? That is who they are talking to. Not sure if you understand.

[maniacmayhem]

"And its still going to boil down to them showing games when it comes to the public."

Which they did at E3 and judging from all the Phil talk they will again.

"MS showing off tools and expecting 3rd parties to utilize them."

So you rather them not show the tools to the devs that attended this meeting with MS? I am not entirely sure what you are getting at or trying to say.

"...its a sad statement in and of itself that MS is basically repeating or saying things they should have the last E3."

But then most of you would be saying "SHOW US THE GAMES". So what do you want them to do Godmars. They show games at E3, they talk about specs here.

And again, MS did say things of this nature about the ESRAM in past articles and how it could benefit the Xbox One. But as usual most members on this site only commented and focused on how "weak" the Xbox One was when compared to the PS4.

[Godmars290]

And again, at a time when MS should be showing devs what can be done with the XB1, they are *asking* devs to do it for them. They are repeating themselves.

Again, since I am so hard to understand, MS should be showing demos via the XB1 to lure in devs to work on the console. They should be showing games well past the launch.

What they should not be showing is the XB1's "potential" via devs kits with higher system specs. At best all that will lead to are great looking PC versions which the XB1 wont be on par to.

[XiSasukeUchiha]

MS stop the BS actually give us evidence geez when will this talk stop?

[mezati99]

you again..

[ArchangelMike]

Show, don't tell...

[Silly gameAr]

It's been like a MS PR blitz and big talk lately. Awesome.

[allastocata]

This isn't PR... this is ms talking to dev's at a dev conference...

[jmac53]

It's PR for Devs. They know they are losing support as it looks like the PS4 is now the lead dev platform so they are in full damage control.

[Audiggity]

Agreed 100% w/ comments. Show, don't tell.

No one here can dismiss the claim by simply writing "lmfao"... but no one here can back it up either. Including MS.

Show us these gains or save your breath!

[FITgamer]

Not sure how it's a "huge win". Even if devs take full use the ESRAM it's still not as powerful as the PS4.

[AutoCad]

How many games run 1080p 60fps on PS4 compared to X1?

[AnteCash]

Alot.

[AutoCad]

like?

[BlackTar187]

According to this article looks like 12 ps4 5 xbox one.

www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS 4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutio ns_and_Framerates

This could be wrong i dunno

[Paulie_gualtieri]

COD ghosts
Blacklight retribution
Tomb raider
Injustice gods among us
DC universe online (MMO)
FFXIV (MMO)
Warframe
Flower

Just off the top of my head.I know there is way more

[ThunderSpark]

Where did Autocad go? Ran off when it got too hot.

[DigitalRaptor]

And THIS ladies and gents, is the reason we mention that Xbots don't use facts or logic. And when they do, it's deeply flawed and based on delusional reasoning.

The logical fans have to be the ones to tell them. How embarrassing.

[LordMaim]

Don't forget Assassin's Creed IV.

[rainslacker]

I wouldn't call it a huge win. That's conjecture made by the author of the article.

The idea behind the ESRAM is that it can overcome the bottleneck of the slower DDR3 RAM. That's actually true, and no real secret. It's a similar model to what they used with the 360, but refined a bit through their Move engines.

The ideas discussed in the quotes is that the devs use the ESRAM for things that need the speed, and leave the things that don't need it in regular memory as there is little need to update it constantly.

The actual talk discussed how to do this, and how it could improve games on the system. This is info that devs need, and they will know what to do with the information without having to worry about the PR nonsense that most of the gaming press and fan boys of both sides will see from it.

[Reem]

LOL a bottleneck is a huge win...cool story bro

[XtraTrstrL]

Well, PS4 doesn't have to do any copying over to main memory, HSA baby.

I love how all the devs working on games and everyone else and their mother go into detail about how Esram is a nightmare compared to 1 unified pool of memory. Yeah, you can arrange everything perfectly to fit the stuff that needs the faster bandwidth in the 32mb ram. You can also make super nice looking games on PS3 if you are a master of the SPUs, that doesn't mean everyone's gonna be doing it.

Only 1st party exclusives on X1 will even be able to delve into trying to get the 32mb ram usage perfect. And those games still won't come close to what 1st party PS4 exclusives will look like.

Microsoft really needs to know when to just close their mouths and take one on the chin. It'd be much better for them to just let the whole ESRAM thing die down, rather than attempting to fight a lost battle.

[ThunderSpark]

Every dev has been saying this.

[DigitalRaptor]

Exactly. No developer out there is saying "oh wow ESRAM is just amazing, and couldn't imagine having better tools or architecture to work with".

This is why ESRAM is nothing but a crutch and any person on here trying to defend Microsoft' damage control statements just needs to GTFO of any next-gen gaming conversation.

[rainslacker]

For the most part it's going to mirror last gen, only in reverse. Multi-plats aren't likely to utilize the ESRAM to such great effect, just because their core code isn't going to be programmed in such a manner. Last gen, most of Sony's SPU power went under-utilized by multi-plats, because the core programming wasn't designed to use it.

Some things will use it to overcome discrepancies, but I wouldn't expect any sort of major optimization between versions to help the X1 version do better.

[jnemesh]

By the time they get their stuff together on the Xbox, everyone will already be developing for the PS4, since it's fairly obvious that the PS4 is going to be the console of choice for most gamers. Disagree? Look at the sales numbers and THEN tell me I'm wrong.

[BX81]

I have both but will do the majority of my gaming on my xb1. I got my ps4 for uncharted and various other exclusives but not to be my main console.

[LordMaim]

Probably should be using your PS4 for all of your multiplatform games too while you're at it.

[Gozer]

lol One console is available in what...32 countries, while the other is only available in what...12-13? One is available for $400, the other is available for $500. You are wrong. We have a whole generation ahead o us.

[styferion]

yeah about that, Xbox never got big even since previous gens outside NA/UK, PS completely crushed them outside those territories, just ask anyone that live outside NA/UK and you'll know.
even more now that they chose to focus on that all-in-one entertainment, that's only available on NA/UK you know..

[ThunderSpark]

Yup, when Microsoft finally releases Xbox One in Japan, it will definitely erase that deficit. Oh wait...

[Gozer]

The 360 trounced the ps3 in NA. Once the price is right, the X1 will catch fire in NA. And once the word gets spread that the X1 is an all in one device, and also plays blockbuster games it will be successful. How successful is up for debate as we are at the very beginning of the generation, but the X1 is a promising product, only a fool would deny that. Give the X1 time to get to as many countries as the p4. This is a marathon not a sprint.

[DigitalRaptor]

@ Gozer

Saying to someone "you are wrong" doesn't make it so. Someone isn't wrong, just because you are an Xbox fanboy and don't like the reality of the situation, and the fact PlayStation happens to be a better global gaming brand.

The discrepancy in markets these companies have released makes no real difference to global totals? I'm sure all those other markets that Xbone will release in are going to make the Xbone FLOURISH and keep up with the lead gaming platform of this generation in almost every regard?
------

Let's go back a bit... PS3 outsold the 360 worldwide practically every single year on the market:

- with a barebones online network;
- with a $600 price tag;
- being challenging to develop for;
- with the media out to get Sony/PS3 with doom and gloom articles everywhere you looked;
- with supposedly "no games";
- with inferior multiplatform games for a long time;
- piss poor marketing

PS3 outsold the 360 where it's cheapest SKU was $600 and where 360's cheapest SKU on the market was about $249. The 360 released a year in advance, got about 8 million unit sales lead, and that lead is now dust in the wind, and ever growing.

PS4 has none of these disadvantages, in fact the complete opposite, and is showing the Xbone. It has that mindshare, both in North America and worldwide. It has better developer support, better value across the board, better hardware, more diverse game software, better multiplats, and it's going to be the lead platform for this entire generation.
------

"And once the word gets spread that the X1 is an all in one device, and also plays blockbuster games it will be successful."

I thought it was already successful?. Even so, are you trying to backup what we've all been saying about the Xbone being a multimedia box that ALSO plays games?

"This is a marathon not a sprint."

So, exactly what Sony said about PS3 last gen, even though it outsold the 360 yearly, and reduced an 8 million lead?

[pyramidshead]

Isn't the Xbone already out in its primary selling countries though? Let's be honest, it's quite the American-centric box. Do you honestly believe these Tier 2 countries, who are getting the 'bone almost a whole year later, are going to make much impact?

I mean come on, one of those countries is Japan for crying out loud and Europe is literally Sony land. Gotta give Sony the credit where it's due for snatching up NA and UK as well.

[Samsara82]

Actually about 50 countries for Sony. However microsoft launched in their main market and the other markets won't give them as much sales. However he gap in sales would probably be a lot smaller than 2 million if they had launched everwhere.

[LetoAtreides82]

Please stop with the Xbone is only available in 12 countries defense. The countries Microsoft focused on were there ones the Xbox brand sold the most, and by focusing on just the primary markets they were hoping to get an early lead on the PS4 and then they can slowly branch out to the second tier markets.

Unfortunately for Microsoft the PS4 is outselling the Xbone EVERYWHERE even though Sony had to spread its units in more than twice as many countries. That's an incredible achievement.

[ssbains]

All that is left now is for Microsoft to spin PR messages, ESRAM bandwidth, power of the cloud, they are just leaving out Blast Processing!

You have an underpowered machine, move on and fund some more exclusives vs timed exclusives.

[dekke]

oh yes power of da cloud and eSRAM and DX12 wich will be hopefully shown on end of year 2015 games and cloud is finished probably then when new consoles are already out

more like misterxmedia secretsauce stuff :D

[sandman224]

If so then when will they show us. And I already know forza 5 is so what else is? I'm only looking forward to halo 5 and gears of war. That's the only reason I own an xbox one.

[Software_Lover]

Why, why, why? Just leave it alone and make great games. Leave the spec talk to fanboys.

[BlackTar187]

Dude, 100% agree.

Sure i like to have great games and great looking games. But i can settle for Great games with decent graphics.

The only thing i want to great games. The extras are nice and of course welcome but they don't define a great game to me. That comes in gameplay mechanics, story and fun factor. All 3 of those things have nothing to do with graphics.

[Dewitt]

This is a BUILD conference for developers and programmers not for consumers. They were breaking down what is inside the box and how it works. Talking about how this is achievable to devs does not reflect on gamers, the comments in here are absurd.

[HaydenJameSmith]

Agreed... they all comment as if this Marketing PR but this is a developers conference, this nothing to do with MS marketing there consoles to consumers... its to attract developers.

[christocolus]

@hayden and dewit

Im glad you guys actually noticed that. Bravo.

I thought the same thing too. The info is for the devs who actually make games on consoles and pcs not arrogant guys who have no idea what to make of it.

Its so easy to say crap when you have no idea about whats been said. Cloud demo = fake controlled demo, dx12 = hype .well i guess it makes them sleep better at night.

The truth is MS has done a great job pulling devs along at this conference. the general impression from the devs on twitter is that its been a great conference. Cant wait to see the amazing things these devs will come up with down the line.

[Lawboy2]

This...a bubble for you man

[Belasco]

Bubbles and a well said.

[weirdo]

i smell jobbies

[assdan]

Microsoft makes the best jokes.

[Azfargh]

Allows to reach 1080p and 60fps... when ONLINE ONLY and probably, PAYING MORE TO BE TECHNICALLY BETTER.

Stop digging down your hole, MS. Invest on games, not paying more for online processing.

[marlinfan10]

"paying more to be technically better" are you trying to say people yearly subscriptions are gonna go up? if so, come on now lol you're really reaching.

and xbox has been focused on games. last years e3 was awesome, and they're saying this years gonna be even better. phil spencers been talking about games non stop since taking over

[jay2]

Don't make me laugh. My £50 cheaper console has more 1080P games....... Nice to have saved the pennies and get a better experience on 5/6 games.

[bornsinner]

TALK IS CHEAP.

let me know when it happens as i am tired of 720p, till then i'll stick to ps4.

[palaeomerus]

"i am tired of 720p"

Which really has nothing to do with anything. 900p is common on Xbone.

[clevernickname]

1080p/60...just not today.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Jesus, I look at the thread and all the "dont tell us show" stupid comments. This is the Build conference...its not a conference meant to ease the concerns of trolling fanboys its a conference for developers and talking to them on a developer level.

[ThunderSpark]

So you'd rather they tell you but not show you. Yup another blind fanboy over here.

@below: Kind of like what they've been talking about with the cloud but yet it's been a year since last e3 and still no games take advantage of it. Enough talk, everyone here wants definitive proof from a company who has done more backtracking in the past year than any other current console maker. Until then, I am not amused.

[marlinfan10]

why would they announce/demo games at BUILD? its supposed to show devs what they'll be able to do with it if they develop for the x1.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@whathappened... I am not a developer, this conference isn't something I would attend nor is it something I would fully understand. I am fairly confident the devs attending this conference probably had no problem following what was explained since its what they do for a living, and any any visual slides / videos used to explain this process also are not present in this pulling of select quotes from the conference.

I am not blind, I see quite well. I don't run around trying to say the hardware of the Xbox One is the same as the hardware of the PS4. They are different and clearly the path of the PS4 development has been easier for many to master so far. Does that mean what was said at this conference isn't valid? of course not. They are talking to devs and explaining in their expertise how best to use the Xbox One ESRAM to get to 1080P/60fps since many have struggled using it so far. Why is that difficult to understand? Why is it difficult to understand this isn't a PR show but instead a developer conference?

Please go back in the hole you crawled out from for this thread.

[ThunderSpark]

Way to back track Dlacy13g. A few day's ago you said the following:

"So in a nut shell.. Ubisoft screwed up by showing off a target demo that in reality they couldn't deliver. Had they not shown a working version/slice of the game back at E3 I am pretty confident most would be more than happy with what they are showing lately. Ubisoft needs to learn how to set proper expectations for the gaming consumer. "

So there, you're saying it's not okay for Ubisoft to show there expectations and goals for their game, while for Microsoft it's okay to show their expectations? Sounds like you're trolling to me. Fact is, if you're going to talk, then back it up. That goes for every company out there and is the same thing everyone but you in this comment section agrees with

[Tempest317]

@whathappened

He's not backtracking...ubisoft dropped a PUBLIC demo, for EVERYONE to see the game...it was PR (public relations). MS was at a DEVELOPER conference, discussing DEVELOPING games using their architecture. It wasn't a press release, they weren't merely "showing their expectations". I don't understand how you can possibly equate those two. And before you start raging that I'm just a MS fan boy, look at my history. I would be considered a sony fanboy before ANYTHING microsoft.

[ThunderSpark]

Both companies were demoing their products, I fail to see your point. A demonstration is a demonstration so stop with the twists and turning.

And nobody cares if you're a Sony or MS fanboy, it's about being a gamer. How is all this cloud and esram talk benefiting you the gamer? Don't talk about it but show me the gamer how it benefits me. End of story.

[Tempest317]

Lol you literally just called someone out claiming hes a fanboy, but now youre saying it doesnt matter? I only said that to prevent you from saying my comments were "Blind fanboyism". You obviously dont understand the point of a dev conference. They weren't showing the public(aka gamers aka you) anything, they were showing it to devs. Therefore all this show me dont tell me is irrelevant in regards to this article.and how does it benefit me? It gets devs on board with ms and gives them a better understanding of the technology, so we can get more and better games. In NO WAY is this detrimental to anyone.

[TheTowelBoy]

Honestly, if they can't get Halo 5 to be 1080p @60fps in multiplayer without making HUGE and drastic cutbacks I WILL be surprised. At what point will they just admit it? I love the games for Xbox, they're definitely aimed at a certain crowd, but I wish they'd just show off the games instead of trying to tout the cloud, or say Esram is the "it" thing. Ugh. I hate PR hype machines.

[marlinfan10]

BUILD isn't a place to show off games, its for devs.

[frankdrebin72]

i never knew that halo should run at 60fps to make it enjoyable,..guess the millions that bought halo over the years have been suckered.

[TheTowelBoy]

I didn't say anything about enjoyment. I'm talking capability. And whether you want to admit it or not it will be disappointing if they can't get their flagship franchise to run it. And sarcasm suits you ill, I wish we could have had a discussion instead of walking around it like it's the plague.

[marlinfan10]

funny how the sony fanboys always said none of this stuffs true, now that they're starting to prove it, everyones saying "don't tell us show us" lol obviously thats gonna happen soon. this isn't a game conference or e3, its the build conference, not exactly a place to show off games. all i wana know is whats gonna be everyones excuse once they show it in a game?

[frankdrebin72]

i guess the peeps here are all secret game developers who know much more than the actual developers,..hence the negativity.
Microsoft spoke about dx12...its coming..xbox one is 100% built for it.
Microsoft spoke about the cloud...guess what you saw your first real demo of whats poss.
Microsoft patented vr/ar tech years ago..sonys out the hurdles with a prototype already..microsoft will reveal also..prob at a more advanced state.
Universal windows app for xbox,..unifying all window devices...rumoured steam app...make of that what you will..but a rumour never the less,..much like sonys financial state hence the studio closures worldwide....make of that what you will.
Microsoft coming on strong with updates,..info,..etc.Sony still trying to dim the light on the controller.
Face the fact that the xboxone IS designed by people far more intelligent than yourselves,.. hence this is aimed at the devs.

[beebap]

Dx12 is already in xbox one they have said themselves it based on coded to metal on xbox one. Will benefit pc not xbox one.they showed off cloud which has been known about for years but microsoft are showing how far they are with this application of cloud computing. Tell me were you interested in this tech before or is because microsoft are showing it. Also the type of aplication of cloud microsoft was showing is years and years off practical real life as the infracsturture is not ready the internet is not fast and realiable enough yet. You think microsift has more advanced vr when it started research later. No. Sony vr is based on move and their camera while the same can not be achieved with kinect. Do some research and see who better system controller and camera to make vr a sucess. Ar has already been implemtented in sony through move camera and vita while microsoft have not. Vr was a vision from years ago just because someone put a patent on it does not mean they anything about it. Im not talking about sony as whole do you think of microsoft loses from other divisions which is not gaming.I do believe sony is the one doing better in the gaming division. Playstation is coming fast with updates too xbix only just got twitch while we already getting new updated version as well which up to twitch not any console.plsaystation and microsoft both have smart people working there. I just think one is more technically forcused while other is more coporate but that just opinion. Im intelligent too and all facts point towards the ps4 being better to develop for. For a numbers of reason all reasonalbe sciencific conclusions like hard cold facts like specs and developer experience.

[razrye]

@frank So tell me what you make of ms firing ppl also. Your comment is full of assumptions and rumours which hold absolutely no credit.

[stragomccloud]

Developers just need to start taking advantage of this instead of being lazy.

[palaeomerus]

Yeah, that really means a whole lot coming from some N4G commenter.

[Yodagamer]

They aren't being lazy. They often times do not have the time or they want to have one thing but the lack of fast ram is hurting them so they have to downgrade something be it alpha effects (as seen in tomb raider de) resolution (as seen in many games), or both. It isn't laziness it's just what the developers want vs. what they can put through fast enough and 32 mb of fast memory will be a challenge if they want to have alot of alpha, texture streaming, or resolution among other things..

[deadfrag]

Like they did with the PS3 Spus right!? No way get this in your fanboys minds time is money,if the PS4 is going to be the platform of choise for developing multiplatform games dont ever expect to see Xboxone games multiplatform ones been better on the Xboxone than on the PS4 because first the PS4 haves more powerfull hardware and second even if they were equal (and they are not ) developers and publishers are not going to spend much more time just to extract the maximum they could have from the Xboxone,its not profitable;and not viable from a financially stand point ex: having a game for the Ps4 made in 2 years and have to spend another three to six month trying to get the game to the same technical point on the Xboxone by exploring all the avaiable quirks!Only the in house developers at Microsoft will actually ever use all the development tools that the Xboxone have because they are payed from Microsoft to do it and even them have target time to release there games.

[deadfrag]

Another thing 32mg of Esram its just too small fact,they can make a lot of games 1080p@60fps but they will need to cut in other technical areas to achieve that!There is a reason why company's like Nvidia and Intel are moving to unified memory just like its already available on the PS4 and the reason its because its better!Xboxone its going to have great and nice looking games that i too expect to play ,but the one's that will truly show the capacity of the box will be the exclusive one's because regarding third party games the PS4 will mostly have the better one's technically, unless they some how get glimpsed by developers to achieve parity for the sake of business relationship.

[stragomccloud]

Anyone has the right to call out laziness.

[DJ]

Once you learn programming Stragomccloud, you will stop calling developers lazy. Microsoft's decision to use ES RAM as a bandaid for slow DDR3 is costing developers time and money to work with.

[stragomccloud]

Actually I used to be a programmer. It got too tedious, so I left for another field. I wasn't very dedicated to it, just as a lot of the people making these games aren't; however. at least I had the good sense to leave. Anyway, it was mostly just c++, basic, and html. Nothing too fancy.

By the way, DDR3 is better for the CPU side of things because it's extremely low latency. GDDR5 which is just modified DDR3 RAM is not good for CPUs at all, and is only beneficial to the GPU. They should have split the RAM on both systems. That said, all fanboys see is numbers of gigabytes, and don't understand the theoretical bandwidth that eSRAM and also eDRAM provides. Programmers have to actually program that in though, but 32MB of eDRAM or eSRAM is a huge amount and can really boost performance if developers actually write to the CPU to take advantage of it.

[Predaking77]

No matter you console of choice we know that what Microsoft is saying is not true. Why not be honest?

Why say that when in reality developers has stated how ESRAM is a problem (Bottleneck) and when most of your games has miserably struggle to reach 1080p?

It was better to say: We are aware of the problems that the xbone is facing and we are working closing with developers to look out for solutions. I would have take that with respect but lying to people saying things that are not real is not respectable Microsoft.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Why does this "Build Conference" have PR speak?

-& to think I was not going to say anything, about M$, since Phil took the reigns. Now back to this Bull Shizz..

Esram & 'Clowd' nonsense.. We know how the Technology works.

-why are you trying to blow smoke up our collective arses.. it only pisses us off.

(Just seems like more nonsensical Ammo for MisterX to use / delude)

[HacSawJimThugin]

Silly fanboys...If the PS4 is so powerful and easy to develop for where is Driveclub? Why the delays? Wasn't that a launch title? What about the Last Guardian? Armchair devs know more about the XB1 than the ppl who worked on it lmao. Be honest, when the visual proof comes at E3, where will you move the goal post next?

If you don't plan on buying the XB1, why troll?

[Haki1112]

"If you don't plan on buying the XB1, why troll?"
Because they got bored of Second Son and got nothing else to do.

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

so you list 2 games, one of which was announced on ps3, like, 6 years ago to prove the power of the ps4? lulz not to mention that the last guardian delay is due to developer issues. in fact, developers delay games all the time; watchdogs, for example. your counter-troll is a fail.

[annus]

Duke Nuken Forever took 15 years of development time. I guess all platforms it released on were hard to develop for?...

[Onenyte]

MS talk a really good game ,but as always talk is very cheap now days

[_FantasmA_]

M$ just talks and talks and talks. Sony quietly goes to work. Loudmouths usually get hit in the mouth.

[frankdrebin72]

sony goes quietly to work...yip closing down sudios worldwide,..hundreds now unemployed..all done in the ninja like stealth of sony,..but hey...thats called trimming the fat???..is it not?hrmmmmm

[JohnS1313]

I don't buy any nonsense on this subject. The PS2 had something just like it but it never really helped. There was some small, fast memory they could use to make things run better but I don't think many developers bothered with it much. It makes games a lot more complicated. It's what you do when you don't want to include enough RAM or fast RAM. It will never make the Xbox One close to as powerful as the PS4.

[rainslacker]

umm...the emotion engine chip was considered one of the most amazing game design chips of it's time. The whole chip was designed specifically for the purpose of delivering games, and not as a general purpose CPU. Some of the principals it introduced or used are still in use today. It wasn't the most powerful chip, but it was a very well rounded work horse that offered a lot of versatility.

[Kennytaur]

Someone should use N4G for social studies. The comment section is usually more entertaining than the news.

[GodGinrai]

"The comment section is usually more entertaining than the news."

I agree. I didnt even bother to read the article.I would rather laugh at all armchair devs/analysts "correcting" anything brought up in the article, in their only special N4G way.

As far as the headline goes(lol)... I will just take a wait and see approach. In the meantime I am loving my Xbox one.I am sure they will find ways to improve the consoles performance. In the meantime I have a life to lead and a bunch of games to play. I am bless.

Have a good weekend ya`ll!

[Ulf]

I wonder how many people here stating "its not true, XB1 sux0rz!" realize they are the successors of the fools who said the Cell was a "single CPU with some signal processors", and that the PS3 could never compete with the X360 in the graphics dept.

I have a big LoL almost everyday at what are likely a bunch of college undergrad educated kids (at best) trying to tell the interwebs how it is in the hardware industry.

[GodGinrai]

My fave comment of the thread.

EDIT: Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Funny how so many are ...reborn in their idiocy at the start of each console cycle. Some will never grow up. others will never learn.

[DynDasE]

It is a huge win for them because they are getting away with this awful design by getting a lot of sales instead of abandonment from customers.

[gdguide]

Microsoft lately have been talking a lot of theoretical vs actually showing in a game what the difference is. Remember when they unveiled Kinect 1 and showed things like a skateboard being scanned in and then used? This IMO might as well be the same thing.

Show me the power of the cloud with an actual game on my console with my connection. That's all that matters to gamers.

I like the idea of this tech, but the infrastructure isn't even close to being there to support it for probably 95% of gamers.

[Illusive_Man]

Do you understand what BUILD conference is about?

[Illusive_Man]

I just want to know why Ryse looks better than Infamous and does more technical tricks when PS4 is supposedly 50% more powerful according to fanboys.

[BABY-JEDI]

I'm looking forward to seeing the fool potential of the Xbox One. No, really I am, but MS are making all the same mistakes Sony did last gen. The point being, dev's want a more straight forward system to develop for. Sony has that in abundance.

[DynDasE]

I think so too. MS have not been initiative throughout their history in gaming. They thought that buying game studios, techs, or following someone shoe without truly realise that it is the people who worked and designed things really well , not the trademark and the reputation of the bought companies.

MS records;
Bought Rare from Nintendo.
Hired IBM to secretly develop CPU concurrently with Cell development.
Bought Gears of War.

Most importantly, they are buying people with push marketing. They keep pushing = Paying more advertisement. This explained why Xbox department generated 2billion losses despite their healthy US market share.

[corroios]

Ryse an 900/20/30 better graphics then an open World Game. Try compare it with a God of War Style of game.

It is so good that sold how much 2 millions? Amazing gameplay and mechanics.... But, but the main player is amazing detailed, a game is not just a character... try using the cloud to improve rez and frames. That would be nice. Wait, maybe in late 2015... with dx12, sdk, dual gpu, amazing esram and all the crap Microsoft is telling tryng to hide the reality.

It would be so simple to show the Power of the Xbox one with a game like Halo 5 in gameplay trailer running at 1080/60 with more than five enemies on screen...

[DynDasE]

MS are not the kind of company who hide their competencies. If there is such thing, you will see that all over the Internet right now.

[mochachino]

Less talky more showy.

I followed that MS carrot like a dumb donkey all last gen, not doing it again this gen.

Proof or it doesn't exist is my motto when it comes to PR from now on.

[Ch1d0r1]

Still beating a dead horse...

[notyobizhwispndmymny]

Ah so many devs on N4G. This much devs and not enough games. Common Devs of N4G, get to making these games and stop talking about it on the comment section. I mean MS is silly for talking about it to devs at a developer conference so why are the devs in this comment section just spouting of their great technical knowledge. Make us more games please! We need more games.
See above me for some of these awesome developers who know so much more than us mere mortals.

^^^^

[bandit905]

i still have hope, the console has only been out for 5months, i like how microsoft went a different way with the ram, im gonna laugh when the new sdk comes out and dev use all the xbox 1 powr and it does exactly what microsoft says it will do

[urwifeminder]

Awesome I am glad I got xb1 but I am envious of Mario cart 8 I must admit, MS is just coming out guns blazing lately no consoles can equal my pc power so its not a big factor for me but looking forward to that DX12 Though.

[i3eyond the Circle]

They mad. No engine so far is built around this....so a fair comparison cant be made until so.

With streaming tiled textures in the near future and money to invest into developers building around the more custom tech in due time we will see how science and optimization outperforms off the shelf braun. Then you will finally see what the architects and other Xbox staff meant when they said you cant judge by whats on paper...that was swiflty dismissed by the fanboy populace.

[marcofdeath]

Sony is the PR kings they all ways have . The first to say that PS3 is 2tf, lie. PS4 is a high power PC ,lie.
KZSF is full 1080p ,lie.
PS4 is full HSA , lie. It's only huma.
PS4 has the best memory, yes but that is only for you fanboys. The rest of memory system is Crap. Even Naughty Dog at GDC said don't use the main GDDR5 but use the memory caches closest to the GPU.

Sony made PS4 for gamers, lie. Sony cash flow is low you get what you pay for. Sony paid AMD 1.3billion for PS4 SOC that's less than 1/2 for XB1 at 3.6billion.
PS4 is built for the future, lie, and if so why in the hell can XB1 do 4k and you can't. + why is their a old GEN GPU inside PS4. Well that's 1.3 for you. That is why the PS4 runs old games and ports so well it's a laptop. If it was a true power house the only game that runs at 1080p/60fps would not be a old gen TR. The next game to be running at 1080p 60fps on XB1 will be HALO 5. What will it be on PS4 a
new PC port.

On top of that MARK Carey told you that the best way was to have on die memory and you fanboys over look that.
what about that down grade on InFAMOUS, the lighting was down graded, that how they got to 30fps. That sounds like what you did to FMS5 ............

[clonerz]

Pathetic attempt to sound like you know something . Fanfoy much U Mad Bro?

[DJ]

I feel bad for Microsoft's PR team. They have to explain why a console that costs $100 more than PS4 also happens to be less capable. And it's a permanent hurdle too. ES RAM was added to the CPU/GPU die to help mitigate the slow DDR3 RAM. But doing so cut out a lot of compute units on the GPU.

It's pretty clear why Mark Cerny advised Sony's engineers to go with the slightly more expensive 8GB GDDR5 route. It ended up paying dividends in the end.

Next Gen games should be 1080p. I already went through 7 years of sub-720p titles. It's time for True HD.

[marcofdeath]

You see not one link, that is just you saying that crap.
PC GPUs are moving away from GDDR5. See that's PR.
Sony's own games can't do 1080p /60fps. more PR.
The one i love is the Naughty Dog at GDC silde.
"permanent hurdle too. ESRAM" How's that DRIVER CLUB going? FMS5 the only game that is 1080p/60fps.
where did you get this "CPU/GPU die to help mitigate the slow DDR3 RAM" no one but PS4fanboys. "link"?
Oh yes PS4 GPU one bus at 176GB/s peak at 256bits.
XB1 GPU can read from 218GB/s peak on 4 lines + DDR3 68GB/s at 64bits x 4 on 4 lines all on one BUS at the same time. PS4 has one thing going for it that's it's
easy as a $3 ho to make games for.......

[1nsomniac]

Wow you are deluded. Try doing some research yourself. Pretty much everything he has said is correct & what you said is completely wrong haha.

If your going to post a comment about backing up statements with facts at least get your own "facts" right!

[clonerz]

Desperate fanboy need a job at microsoft please ill talk up your junkbox 24/7 365 here on n4g btw U Mad Bro? Just sayin

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

MS should just shut their hole... because this is a battle lost over and over and over again and it is done with... sure they may get one or two games up there with their examples of how to achieve it... but but it will not be a practical way for developers to handle...

MS needs to change the F*CKing record... sometimes you win some sometimes you lose some... SONY KILLED them in specs and showed them how to launch a system....

Now that they systems are out the only way MS is going to win this IS not by going back and trying to RELAUNCH its system again... as the a gaming central system like the new president said the other day... what they need to do...

IS bring games....

SHUT their mouths... Only way to win gamers... is with kick ass games... only way to win consumers is with kick ass games that have great value for their money...

One thing they really could do that could really stick it to SONY is MAKE MS XBOX LIVE FREE... that would attract a SH*T load of consumers.

Do that, make live free until MS can get some stellar games out there.... Double down on games... BUY some titles..

Go out BUY exclusive rights to some key titles... Madden, COD, TITAN FALL, GTA buy one or two of those... and you will get back into this game fast then you can say Xbox Home...

That is the ONLY way Mss can STOP this BLOODLETTING Sony showing pro types of VR sets and MS for the first time ever Oh oh look look we uh.... wee uh go one here... we are working on one... too... Look a patten from... 98 but just goes to she that we have been working on it for years.... yeah...

going to to kick ass.

MS is in a downward spiral and all this blitz of Xbox this and that this past week this huge PUSH of get the XBOX name out there... people are not listening to it.. why because it is TOO MUCH NOISE all at once....

I think they have to get out... Sonys Gaming Industy is the only thing keeping the company ALIVE as for MS Xbox is brand is the heaviest investment that has not seen payback... they are still miles in debt... 2billion a year... They had to hide this... that is why they merged the Xbox Division with the mobile division.... Andriod is the only reason why the Shareholders have not asked for Xbox head on a plater... Andriod market share is hiding all the losses of the Xbox Brand...

MS should have never got into the market on its own... we all know it try to go with a partner to try and push sony out of the living room... they hooked up with sega...

That fall through.... the battle for the living room.... MS should have hooked up with samsung or Amazon I think only those to companies have the power to take over the living rooms and extended that into mobile market from there... Apple in now going to be coming in very soon... and it is going to be a cluster fuck... I think...

iwata has to go glad to see they are at least holding a vote to see if they should hold a vote to see if they should vote for a new president...

iwata thinks he is a rock star...

MS get out while you can... let the others fight out and then find a partner that can take you across the finish line together...

[Clown_Syndr0me]

Less talking more doing, I'm bored of articles like this. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.
right now I prefer my ps4 for games but my X1 for literally everything else. I'm one of the people that actually use apps alot and love upload.

[cruzngta]

Having both machines I would say they are both really good and the whole esram debate for MS is too much already. They designed the machine that way for a reason. Sony built the PS4 the way they did for a reason as well. We can all debate which is better and who made the right/wrong choices about hardware but the truth is they would never have been built the same and differences will always be there. That is what makes them unique. Everytime I play them I enjoy their games. Forza 5 is amazing and Infamous is incredible. True testaments of the respective machines that display them. Its way to early in this gen to be arguing over all of this lets just wait and see what the coming years will bring and enjoy all they have to offer. Both machines are amazing.

[GodGinrai]

As a dual console owner, I agree. I couldnt have one without the other. It used to be three, but nintendo need to step things up, before I invest in a wiiu.

The reason most people argue on here is because most can only afford one/Their parents fund their gaming habits.

Also. My brother started working for sony PS division yesterday ( works on UI stuff) here in the UK. I have even more reason to like them, now.. He brought me a copy of Killzone yesterday. I have to beat the game before the end of april though because he gets his PS4 ( he bought an XB1 at the same time as me, but I bought my PS4 last friday)at the end of the month.

I just never have seen the point in owning just one. Sucks for those that cant afford it, but I dont see it as a good reason to become idiots on the internet.

[dennett316]

ESRAM is not a win, it's a compromise, and not a very effective one due to its limited size. Considering what they ended up charging for the system on release, it really should have had DDR5 RAM like the PS4.
Whether it was penny-pinching or just a lack of foresight, MS ballsed up the internals of their machine in order to fund Kinect, which is ultimately near useless for gaming beyond some voice commands and the novelty of logging in via scanning your face.

[Azzanation]

You havnt done your research. WiiU has 2gigs of DDR3 ram, once Sony found out they doubled it to 4gigs for there PS4. After hearing news from MS saying they will be using 8gigs for the XB1, Sony then changed there Ram to 8gigs and GDDR5. They wanted to have the most powerful product on the market.

So you should be thanking MS for raising the standards this gen, because if XB1 wasn't released with its specs you would be playing PS4 games using less then 4gigs rather then 8gigs.

[kakashi81]

Azznation, the wiiu has 2gddr4 bro.

[kakashi81]

MS please hurry with the sdk's before ps4 reach 1440p 120 hz. Lol

[Azzanation]

Gamers have to understand this gen the only differences you will notice will be the resolution and framerate. If your expecting one version to have a lot more detail or more effects then you have entered gaming industry in the wrong generation. Its not like the PS2 vs Gamecube era where the Gamecube could do 8 effects per polygon compared to the PS2's 1 effect per polygon.

This gen both systems are the same in what they can do per polygon/triangle and they can all do the same amount of effects and details. There's no advantage buying a game on one console then the other because to the average person they wont notice a difference. The real difference is when you compare Watchdogs on console to Watchdogs on PC where you will see 4k or the extra effects or detail the consoles versions will struggle to do.

[Goku781]

They had thier chance to prove it with Titanfall. They failed no matter how good the gameplay might be.

[quenomamen]

Oooh hey, yea thanks MS for saying how its a big win. Too bad alot of the multiplats and Devs say the opposite. But we all know they dont know what the hell theyre doing.

[il-JumperMT]

Tell me how many games you have 1080p running 60 FPS on Xbox One

[mmj]

Xbox One is the console that just keeps on giving, on paper that is!

[Milesprowers]

Even the Wii U is faster then Xbox One

[Ch1d0r1]

You might be taking it a little to far there buddy... But really is it? We are too busy comparing the xbone and PS4. I do hope Nintendo beats out the xbone for second place this gen.

[PainUzumaki]

MS been talking a lot of shit lately according to like every gaming site I know of. All these new things that are coming but probably never will. Im just waiting for Sony to destroy them at E3 again and nope Im not a fanboy...just speaking truth

[mixelon]

He didn't even really say it was a big competitive advantage or anything. It is definitely a big win compared to not having it at all, nor having any other pool of fast memory.

The PS4's design doesn't need it, which makes sense. I can see what MS were trying to do but it doesn't really excuse the level of the non-custom elements of the architecture. A big pool of fast ram + a better spec would be pretty badass, but the x1 has neither.

[Vonbedda]

I wish it wasnt so easy to dismiss the console, but I can't see ms making such a huge design flaw, not with the boffins at the disposal.

What doesn't sit right with me is that Sony give there console a 5year lifespan. Xbox is 9-10.... Ms must have tech to expand the consoles life that far.

[mixelon]

Nah, thats just conjecture about their lifespans and its not like its terrible, just comparatively limited. They had different priorities.

Just like nintendo had different priorities.

[StrawberryDiesel420]

Didn't help Tomb Raider Devs. That game basically runs 1080p/60fps on PS4 while it's 30fps on the XBone.