Tech Analysis: What’s Stopping The PS4 Pro From Playing 4K Blu-Rays?

Why, then, doesn't the PlayStation 4 Pro support playback of 4K Blu-ray content? According to Sony, this feature omission was made in light of the increasing move towards 4K streaming. With a lot of people (at least in the demographic that's in a market for a 4K TV) having access to high-bandwidth internet, and with the wild success of streaming services like Netflix, Sony's perspective at least, is that the majority of 4K media content will be consumed through streaming.

[gbsrnctaln]

I know that all of mine is. Most of my 4k comes from netflix and amazon prime. Directv also has a lot of first runs as well as 3 dedicated channels in 4k. I simply have no need for a 4k blue ray player, and am glad they omitted it to keep that oh so sweet $399 price point.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

That 4k compression quality leaves a lot to be desired.

[DeadlyOreo]

No it doesn't.

[XStation4pio_Pro]

its speed dependent. if your internet sucks then the quality goes down. I have a 300mb/s line and my 4k streams are pristine.

[jmc8888]

@mastablasta_9k and @deadlyoreo

Wrong.

Netflix is 18mbps bitrate
UHD Bluray has a maximum of 128mbps bitrate, which means you'll see UHD Blurays from 25-128mbps. Newer movies coming out will be alot higher on that continuum than the early rush jobs to put out content.

Now, why would you give it up when they could of still packed it in for $399?

It cost Microsoft $15.50 additional to buy from a 3rd party (who needs to make a profit) to add one.

For Sony, a maker of UHD Blu ray drives? It could of been done for cost. Which means, significantly less.

The only difference is that UHD Blu ray drives have firmware to read additional layers, that's it. So the lasers used have to meet a certain level of strength, but they already do. They just can't use the cheapest laser they already use in regular Blu ray drives, they just have to use what is normal already.

So anywhere between 0 and maybe $5-10 in accounting fudgery.

There really wasn't a legitimate reason from a consumer perspective, and they seem to have done it so they don't undercut their standalone UHD Blu ray.

Which means to me, the PS4 Pro + UHD Blu ray functionality that I could have realistically got for $399, now costs ~$800.

If you are streaming 4k, you are basically watching a 1080p blu ray, actually less, since the bitrate on a Blu ray is 25-35 mbps. Yes you get 4k pixels, but you have lost detail which basically equals it out.

It's not pristine.

[MattE]

Exactly.. streaming is absolutely no match for ultra HD bluray but for casual users will be fine..

[freshslicepizza]

People need to be aware of their data caps. 4K video is going to eat up a lot of bandwidth

[Juiceid]

The video does look nice for the average consumer, however the audio sucks all kinds of shit. Streaming should only be an option, not requirement.

[SniperControl]

You guys are crazy if you think a person is going to splash £2000-£3000 on a good 4k/HDR TV and then watch movies on a cheap UHD drive in a console.

The X1S console doesn't even pass through DTS-HD/True HD/DTS-X/Dolby Atmos streams instead decoding to PCM which leads to a serious degradation of the LFE output and lower output levels on all speakers, it's the same for the PS4, PS3 and X1.

https://www.reddit.com/r/xb...

Once prices drop for UHD players(all indications point to that already happening) most peeps will get dedicated UHD players, even Xbox guys are saying that in the above link.

Even if the PS4P had a UHD drive, i personally still wouldn't use it to watch movies with.

[Kleptic]

^seriously?

Sounds a lot like the MS fanatics' stance when the PS3 had a blu ray drive. "Who is going to use a console for blu ray movies?"...turns out, a lot of people..it was the number one blu ray playing device for years...released in the exact same situation...stand alone players were double the price of the consoles, and the console had better connectivity options entirely...things like BD live, etc. were all added to it with simple software updates, where most initial blu ray players didn't even connect to the internet.

It's stupid that the PS4 Pro doesn't have a UHD BD drive...stupid...absolutely no arguing against that...Not everyone necessarily wanted it, but it would've gone a long way to future proof the device just a slight bit more...That would've been the single 4k thing the new PS4 would've been competent at...instead we get some bizarre mid gen limbo of 4k streaming (read: lol) and 4k game upscaling (read: bigger lol)...

weirdest generation of video game consoles i've ever witnessed, and it just keeps getting weirder.

[mattdillahunty]

I'm going to be getting the LG 55" OLED HDR TV in a couple months, and I wanted an UHD blu-ray player to go with it. I really don't game on consoles anymore, but I'd heard that the new ones were going to be capable of 4k playback, so I figured I might as well get a good value by getting a console that can play UHD. I figured I'd get the new PS4 iteration since Sony has been the go-to gaming console for years now, but lo and behold, it doesn't actually play UHD blu-rays.

That alone pushed me towards the XBox One S, which I'll be getting when I get my TV. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but Sony lost a sale from me simply by not adding UHD playback. Streaming will be nice and all, but it won't cut it.

[yeahokwhatever]

@Kleptic

Terrible argument. The PS3 was the top of the line bluray player at the time and for several years after launch. People just don't care as much about physical media anymore. That thing we all talked about happening like 5 years ago, is now happening. Thats all. Yes, its a neat added bonus to play 30$ UHD disks in a game console. No, that doesn't make it a necessity to enjoy games.

[darthv72]

The odd part is Sony knows that these 4K tv's already have that ability to stream 4k content. This could have been their chance to let those same users play the real UHD movies (even ones that Sony makes) as another way to enjoy 4k content.

Missed opportunity, but they do have their own line of UHD players to sell so maybe they didn't want to hurt potential sales of their other product line. ????

[Ju]

I can't hear this anymore. WTH is going on? We haven't left the 1080p time yet, and you guys circle jerk about 128Mb/s bandwith - in a $399 device which is mainly designed for games.

All that uber equipment will set you back with multiple thousands of dollars if we really argue if a 4K stream is not sufficient vs. a UHD disk. And yet, it's the cheapest component - the console - which is at fault here? Are guys insane? What is going on here really?

None of you can tell me you can see the difference on a 55" screen - which you can actually afford. 1st world problems that's not even funny. Even if you can - wait until you are 40.

For Joe Average this whole 4K/UHD/HDR bandwaggon is useless, seriously. What a joke. I do have a (cheap) 4K TV and you don't realize how much more pixels that actually is. And yet, even 1080p looks great on that screen. The need to point out this nano difference is ridiculous. What I primary want is a bit more detail and a bit faster interaction than current consoles. I'm good with that.

I can't wait when the circle jerk will continue next year when the scorpio will release and we will get this 1800p vs 2160 p comparisons where people here will argue videos replayed on a 1080p screen - because this is all you guys have. Hilarious. But, I will need more popcorn then.

The PS4 Pro doesn't have UHD. Get over it.

[VforVideogames]

So now the ps4 pro its mainly for tv ...... wow wasn't that one of the big problems for the xbone?

[nitus10]

Well if you want technical you could look at how the old H264 codec is being superseded by the new H265 codec which can reduce the overall size of the stream or file by over 50% with little if any loss of quality. It even support 8K as well. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wi... for more details.

There are other techniques of reducing a stream such as changing 8bit (the norm) to 10bit and even 12 bit with little if any loss of quality. The downside of doing this is you need a more powerful processor to decode.

In the case of streaming, you can further reduce the size of the stream by reducing the audio streams from say 7.1 to 5.1 or lower and that may not be noticeable by the majority of users. By reducing quality you can also reduce the size of the stream, however this is a balancing act, reduce the quality too much and viewers start noticing.

From a personal perspective, I buy a games machine primarily to play games not play movies although in the case of the PS4 including the slim and the pro as well as the PS3 all still have Bluray players which for many is very acceptable even for those people who have a 4K TV's and at the moment there is very little content for them

[Kleptic]

@yeahokwhatever:

No, not at all...

The PS3 was NOT a 'top of the line' blu ray player when it released...that was arguably the most important part of the PS3 having a blu ray drive to begin with...It had a 2x BD drive, and the system didn't ship with a handful of promised BD enabled features. Certain audio codecs couldn't be pushed, etc. It was significantly under higher priced dedicated blu ray players feature wise, though...even at $500 was cheap...and then started getting those features over the internet...and all of a sudden blu ray was a thing...

'The thing people talked about happening 5 years ago is happening'...what's that, exactly? Digital distribution? yeah, it's happening...PC has pretty much removed it in gaming...both console makers are putting everything behind a digital version being available immediately with disc versions...so yeah, that is a reality, but I hope you're not correlating that with streaming 4k video. NO ONE with a 4k TV will argue that a streamed 4k video is remotely close to UHD BD...just like no one will argue that a 1080 youtube stream of a movie is close its BD counterpart...discs may not be the most convenient in certain areas, but when it comes to high resolution/high bandwidth stuff...the internet is still way behind even in 'better' areas...

and back to the whole 'I don't need my console to play movies' is the number 1 argument everyone else made against Sony when they released the PS3...Now sony guys are making it against everyone else...It's a shortcoming for the PS4 Pro...the end...Realize the contradiction...MS now has a console that offers the option to play these discs...This is exactly where Sony was last gen, and it was a 'very big deal'...now...it isn't? Funny how arrogance swings with popularity so quickly...

[DARK_WOLF]

Remember when MS said digital is the future, and all of you were up in arms hating on MS and saying not everyones internet around the world is good enough. and then sony made a video about exchanging physical media between friends and everyone loved them for it.

Pepperidge farm remembers.

[ger2396]

That was in reference to physical games not movies.

[Angeljuice]

@DarkWolf_NZ

Remember that one console was built around "TV, TV, Sports, TV" and one was "for the gamers"?

PS4 is designed for playing games with casual multimedia functions, XB1 is designed for watching TV, sports and films with gaming taking a back seat.

It's the way they were marketed from the get go.

[VoodooProject]

It's called options

[DARK_WOLF]

Whats the difference? Apart from movies being shared and taken to friends/family houses more often.

Angeljuice

No. Just no. Xbox showed off its new tv features more than it should at first but its always been a games console first. As evident by its launch lineup ie Forza 5, Ryse, Dead rising 3, Killer Instinct and soon after released Titanfall.

Keep deflecting from sonys greed in not including 4k bd drive tho. If it were the other way around u guys would be bashing ms harder than ever for not having one.

[ColonelRex]

Yep. I remember that. And now everyone is hating on Sony about the ps4 pro not supporting 4k blu-ray playback.

[sampson3121]

the difference is sony doesn't give a shit about movies for their "GAMING" machine. they made a gaming console, not a all in one console like MS. look what happened to the last console MS tried to make an all in one machine... failed!

this is nothing like what MS tried to do. one was gaming and this one is movies.

[ShottyatLaw]

Pretty much. I also remember when Playstation was always at the forefront of new physical media standards.

MS tried to downplay Bluray with the same BS.

[Sharky231]

That's not what the video from Sony was about. That was talking about the used game idea Microsoft had at first. You couldn't borrow a game from a friend because it wouldn't work...unless theat friend log into your Xbox. I'm glad they got rid of that idea! It had nothing to do with a digital future.

[aconnellan]

Apparently back then no one had good enough internet to just connect everynow and then.

But now everyone's Internet is good enough to stream 4K moves.

Huh

[yeahokwhatever]

Games, not movies. Assclown.

[yeahokwhatever]

How come nobody is shitting on Nintendo? Oh. Thats right. Xbox fanboys are upset at a 20M vs. 40M sales war. Xbox fanboys are upset about having to wait another year for a visual upgrade. Xbox fanboys are sad about the plethora of better looking games on PS4. Just enjoy your toys, kids. Even if they're not as shiny as your friend's toys.

[Death]

@Angel,

The PS4 literally rolled out a subscription TV service within the first year it was out. Your console "for the gamers" is also a really nice cable box. At the same time Sony was telling you they only cared about games, they were working on their subscription TV service. Hindsight is an amazing thing. We can look back at what they said and also at what they were doing and they are not the same. I'm not sure how you haven't connected the dots yet.

None of the extra functions the Xbox One has takes away from gaming. Does PSVue take away anything from the PS4's ability to play games? What about it's ability to play Blu-ray movies? Having the ability to watch UHDBR's on the PS4 Pro wouldn't have taken anything away from the PS4 Pro, it would have added an additional feature and benefit to owning the console. Saying it's a better console by having less features is a very sad argument and precisely why Sony can get away with not having the function.

[Realms]

How does this affect games? Isn't that what consoles are for? It doesn't affect me in the least because I haven't bought any physical media in years and the trend is moving towards streaming at least when it comes to content you watch on your TV. So again how does this affect games?

[Liqu1d]

I remember MS trying to restrict how people share games and implementing a stupid 24 hour check in. Their answer if you didn't like it? "Buy a 360."

[XanderZane]

@sampson3121
Right, that's why Sony tried to market the PS3 as Blu-Ray player first before a game console. Sure they don't care about movies and TV. The reason there is no 4K Blu-Ray in the PS4 Pro right now is because they want fanboys like you to buy their expensive $300+ 4K Blu-Ray players instead. Good luck with that.

[sampson3121]

XanderZane: "Right, that's why Sony tried to market the PS3 as Blu-Ray player first before a game console."

right, and look what happened at the beginning of that gen, sony's ps3 was over priced because of that blue ray player being added. it sold badly until they lowered the price. this is what will happen to the scorpio. MS will have a more powerful console than the pro, but just that alone guarantees a price point no lower than $499, plus if you add the cheap ass Ultra player it could hit $599. it will fail. 6 tflops compared to 4.2 tflops isn't that much more of a difference than the ps4's 1.84 and the 1.31 of the xbox one. and when watching game comparisons it was hardly noticeable.

MS tried to pull a fast one with Sony by revealing the scorpio hoping sony would hold the release of the pro and go back to the drawing board so they could match the scorpio specs and in turn not have a full year head start with the pro. sony didn't bite, they decided t take the Ultra player out and sell it for the amazing price of $399. smart.

now MS will be stuck with an over powered console that most can't afford. they lose.

[VoodooProject]

For directv 4k you are paying for a premium for just 3 channels. $120 a month!

[mkis007]

Actually no, you are paying for either choice ultimate or premium and get more than just those 3 channels. Also it's not $120 for just those 3 channels it's the total cost.

[Ju]

Why one would pay $120 for cable or satellite is beyond me...but I guess these people exist.

[LexHazard79]

You guys keep going on about this 4K streaming... it will never compare to native 4K media on a blu ray. A bad connection, you lose quality... your Internet goes out, you cant use any of it..lol.

[VoodooProject]

Correct 4k native on a blu ray is supreme when it 4k content.

[aconnellan]

Yep. I love streaming stuff but my internet is terribly unreliable (in Australia)

Also, remember when MS said they were going to put a huge focus on digital (including the check-in) and Sony fans complained that not everyone had stable enough connections to literally just connect to the Internet occasionally?

Then Sony announces streaming movies in 4K, and suddenly everybody's internet is good enough

[rainslacker]

I agree 100%. I don't mind streaming for some things like some TV shows or movies that I just watch to pass the time, but for "serious" movie consumption for movies that I want to enjoy as much as possible, I prefer physical to be able to get the best sound and picture quality, and I find with streaming, the degregation of quality due to lower bit rates or signal loss to be extremely distracting to the point where I obsess over it. It's just part of my OCD nature. Things like where blacks have hard gradients, lighter scenes where colors get washed out, or times where the pictures get blocky due to lowering the bitrate to compensate for signal loss, really detract from the experience.

I don't mind paying more for physical media for movies I'm going to watch now and then. Some people may not consume their media in such a fashion, and I can understand that many wouldn't be willing to spend $30-40 on a new movie, but that doesn't make their choices relevant to me, or many others, nor does it mean those new UHD prices are going to remain that high, or that those same movies aren't going to come down to a price which is more acceptable. Just like BR and DVD movies were expensive at first, they eventually came down, and bargain bin or discounted movies became available, so it will happen with UHD.

People act like how they consume media, or even the uptake of digital, somehow means the other significant market which surrounds physical media doesn't need to be accounted for. However, go into any best buy or target, and you see they have significant portions of their stores alloted to the sale of physical media, whether it's games, CD's, or movies, so if there weren't that many people buying this stuff, why would they waste valuable retail space to cater to that market?

I feel Sony is not catering to that market with the weak excuse that digital is on the rise....which may be true, but really does remove a significant portion of the consumer base from the equation when talking about trying to drive PS4 sales through added value, and removes a lot of potential sales for the casual buyers of UHD, as it increases the barrier of entry. It's just unfathomable to me that Sony would take such a short sighted approach without some ulterior motive or other reason which they just have to PR their way out of for the time being.

[Ju]

OK, OK. It doesn't compare - on that full bright light 4K projector I run my home cinema on. Alright, alright...oh....wait a minute. I just got home...

[donthate]

rain:

I think they left a significant portion of their consumers out, and soured some others, for saving $15 or so per console, that is most certainly going to fall in price. The perceived value of UHD Blu-Ray drive is extremely significant as seen by the reaction of the internet.

The question is only if this noise will die down, or if it will continue souring PS4 Pro's sale?

[ShottyatLaw]

Yep. Streaming is going to be the more popular choice. That's why you would have to be pretty stupid to not buy a new 4k TV that isn't a streaming-ready Smart TV. You'd have to go out of your way to find one that isn't a Smart TV at this point.

So the 4k media playback of the Pro is completely useless and redundant to me and 99% of 4k TV owners. You included. A UHD player would make more sense for a disc based device I'm plugging into the TV.

[LexHazard79]

Man I didnt even think of that. That is definitely a great point to bring into arguement.. good one.

[donthate]

For $15 more, I would take the UHD Blu-Ray drive. It will also setup the PS4 Pro for the future when the PS4 Slim/Standard is discontinued and Sony needs to move to a new format, because you know 4k+ textures.

I know Scorpio will feature UHD BR drive, so when XB1 is discontinued it can play the same games as the next console after Scorpio.

It is short sighted and small savings (that cost could have been passed down to consumers) to drop UHD BR drive. It is a disservice to consumers, and forces Sony's hand to be limited if future compatibility is required.

That is something MS doesn't have to worry about.

[Ju]

This would totally fragment the market. It is more likely, the next machine will run PS4 games but not the other way round. Especially if the media format will change.

No, MS won't need to worry about that. But the developers who want to sell their games to 20-30 millions Xbox1 by then....So they will have two physical releases, one for UHD and one for BD.

Doesn't really matter. PS4 games will never release on UHD. To big of an install base. Maybe next generation will, but that doesn't mean the PS4 will become obsolete at same time...that Scorpio of your will need to build at least a 10M install base before it even becomes feasible to release games explicitly for that platform.

[donthate]

Ju:

What you are saying doesn't even make sense. We are talking about when XB1 is dropped from support, then Scorpio and later models are primed to take advantage of the better disc format. This might be 3-4 years down the line after Scorpio is released i.e. when PS5 and the next Xbox 5 (next gen as some would call it) is released.

[Ju]

Yes, exactly. Then when a new machine comes out it makes sense to push the boundary with two releases. The PS4Pro is not that machine.

[blackblades]

Having a 4k bluray build in would of been nice, but still not a big deal. Also rather use an actual 4k bluray the run down my ps4 bluray. People will get over it one day.

[Ju]

Hey, speaking of...I just put in my very first BD into my PS4 ...which I have had for two years now. Bought the Matrix collection an never watched it...

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Data caps are and will be the #1 issue for 4K streaming. People are going to crap bricks when they realize just how much they blow through their data caps when streaming 4K content.

[Master of Unlocking]

Lucky you, but my internet connection is nowhere near good enough to stream 4K content, and even if it were, as they say in the article, 4K streamed is only marginally better than 1080p from a physical media, it's not as good as 4K from a UHD Blu-Ray apparently (which I absolutely believe).
Well it's not like there's heaps and bounds of 4K UHD Blu-Rays available right now anyway, so it may not be such a big problem right now, but by the time we're at the end of this decade, there'll probably be a lot more UHD BR, and then when they wanna sell us the PS5 it will most definitely have UHD BR playback, well, it sure as hell better have, otherwise they'll take a lot of flak again, but that time it will be rightfully so.

[daxter1919]

Xbox S 4K Blu-Ray player is of low quality.

It has big compatibility problems with the movies.
https://forums.xbox.com/xbo...

And the few movies that can be seen, have a lower quality compared to 4K Blu-Ray player Samsung or Panasonic

[VoodooProject]

Not image quality issue. Just sound issue when it comes down to Dolby Atmos.

[fathertime4464]

Well then I'm willing to guess that unlike myself you don't wish to truly experience the full capacity of what your tv that you played so much for can do!
Now that sir is a true waste of your money. Why did you purchase a 4k tv if your not interested in truly utilizing it?

[gbsrnctaln]

@kleptic

The difference now is that there is a different form of media giving us access to VERY AND I MEAN VERY similar content. One form of media is very inexpensive, where you can have access to virtually any movie/tv show and never have to leave your house, whereas the other, while offering a slightly superior experience, costs $40 a pop and you have to drive to the store, or order through the male which can take days. I think for MOST people, convenience is going to win in the end. Physical may or may not be dying, but its role as a major factor in selling video game systems is dead when it comes to movies...now physical games might be a different story.

[starchild]

What a load of bunk. For people like me that care about image quality, of course we care about having a physical drive. Streaming doesn't cut it.

[gbsrnctaln]

@starchild

Well then whatever will you do in a couple of years when 8k tvs become available??? Its all relative. To me 4k streaming looks MILES BETTER than native 1080p, not to mention the curved screen and improved refresh rate so my purchase has been well wort it. For MOST consumers, streaming 4k will be a big improvement over what they are used to and will be sufficient. Google fiber is hitting my town soon, so 4k streaming should improve but will unfortunately be limited to the services limits. But what people fail to consider are the constantly improving distribution methods of data. LIFI for example is supposed to be something like 100x better than wifi etc. And if you want the best possible image, buy a dedicated player and dont rely on your console for gods sake. I guarantee you that x1s and scorpio will NOT be the very best players on the market.

[XanderZane]

You must have Verizon's FIOS broadband as you need at least 25mbps+ to stream Netflix & Amazon video in 4K. That's about 3.5MBps. In the U.S. at least 75% only have 10-20mbps broadband. Like 343_Guilty says, 4K compression streaming is not great quality.

@mastablasta_9k
Are you in the U.S. and what service are you using. In some International countries they have much faster broadband.

[rainslacker]

Think the only thing stopping the Pro from playing UHD's is Sony's lack of desire to enable it.

The only hardware related issue that might come into play is the HDMI controller chip. If they are using their older chips, which currently exist in the OGPS4, then it'll never happen.

Maybe Gamingbolt can crack open a slim PS4 and take some pictures of the HDMI controller chip. If the pins are hidden, everything needed for UHD playback is there. If the pins are exposed, then it'll never play back UHD discs.

Other than that, there was some decent info in this article, particularly current adoption rates of high speed internet availability.

Sony not providing it because they feel it would cannibalize stand alone sales though is pure speculation, and it makes no sense for Sony to do this based on their own history, and the fact it won't actual hinder the sales of stand alones since they are coming down in price, and the PS4 will be priced the same, or more than stand alones this holiday. You can already get a Samsung stand alone for around $300. In the mean time, it actually counters UHD adoption, so if Sony would prefer digital adoption on the cusp of consumer 4K taking off, that is the only reason to not include it should all the hardware be present.

Edit:

Decided to look up if there was any teardown pics of the PS4 slim yet and came up with this.

http://imagescdn.tweaktown....

The HDMI controller chip is the center chip behind the HDMI port on the right side of the picture. It does not have exposed pins, meaning that it should be HDMI2.0a compliant, and have the requirement to enable HDCP2.2 compatibility built in. Granted, the picture is really poor, but it doesn't appear to have any exposed pins. The Pro is likely to use the same controller, and it's unlikely Sony would go backwards with the HDMI port and put in a controller which doesn't support HDMI2.0.

Since all the other hardware in the system is more than capable, the only reason UHD playback hasn't been enabled is because Sony hasn't done so. I don't know why they think this, but I can't imagine it's due to them believing that streaming is more important. It makes no sense since Sony still has an interest in UHD sales, and as this article states, less than 25% of the US and Asia markets have access to sufficient bandwidth. Stand alone sales seem the only logical conclusion, but it's also possible they just don't have the media player feature ready yet, so didn't want to sell it on that premise just yet.

[BlackTar187]

The thing is Consumer physical media is never going to trend up again. It will continue to trend down. 4k physical media taking off is a bit misleading with regards to physical media.

Physical media is going down EVERY year and digital up. For ex. look at Physcial home movies sales between 2000-2008 then look at physical home media from 2009-2016 the trend is going in one direction.

Now personally think they should have made a model with UHD but i'm glad the one they are releasing is without. I don't think i would pay a premium to have UHD when i haven't bought a movie in like 6yrs. Serenity on Bluray is probably the last physical media I've bought and i did it to support Firefly not to watch the movie on Bluray.

BTW good write up Rainslacker we just have different conclusions

[donthate]

Just like Audio CDs has been trending down for what, a decade now?

It still makes up a markedly 40%+ of the market. You can't ignore that market even if it is declining. Heck, cable TV is declining, but still gazillion people are still using it.

It is premature to drop it now in my opinion, and the perceived loss of value hurts Sony more over $15 that could have been passed to the consumer.

[rainslacker]

As this article says, it's still a thing in the here and now, and Sony itself has a vested interest in UHD. Otherwise, why come out with stand alone players or even make UHD discs?

Trending down doesn't mean there isn't a market for the medium itself. CD's can still be brought, and are in great numbers. BR and DVD media is trending down, but for a great many, it's still a common way to consume that product. Why leave out a viable market, just because another one is growing...particularly since the market being discussed here is a new one, which will see sales as adopters start buying up the products. For the long term, it may not make any sense, but that long term is a long ways off, but I feel Sony is making it so the PS4 isn't even a consideration for those looking for a good media player with UHD support, and they won't benefit off the added value aspect of having a UHD player like they have with every other system they've released.

As far as 4K media trending up through digital, I'd have to say of course it is. As of right now, the cost of entry of UHD is so high, it's going to remove a lot of people from the equation. It wasn't until very recently that stand alone players got to around $300, and there is very little competition in the market right now. On top of that, there is more streamed 4K content available than there is UHD discs, and most of the UHD content available it's that new. It's much like BR was, and BR took some time to catch on, but the PS3 was a major factor in it seeing adoption, and becoming a viable marketplace.

I believe Sony's excuse of digital on the rise is just a line to use because they don't have the feature ready to implement for whatever reason. It makes no sense from Sony's perspective to push this digital future when they have a very real interest in the physical media market as well. Not just from the PS side, but from Sony as a whole. The line itself doesn't hold up to scrutiny, as this article points out in terms of high speed internet adoption. It's also counter productive of Sony to use current trending data, and then dismiss what is, or will be, a fairly sizable market as 4K adoption becomes more common place.

Personally, as it stands, I haven't even been buying BR discs since getting a 4K TV. I used to buy 1-2 a month, and rent 3-4 more, because that's how I prefer to consume my media, because I'm not even happy with 1080 streamed content when it comes to quality in both video and audio choices. It's fine for some things, but I want my movies to look the best they can. Until I can get a 4K player, or decide to get one some how, I probably won't buy any movies, because I don't want to have to feel the need to replace them in the future, which I would do if some of my more favorite movies become available and I feel it's worth it.

I would have brought a Neo day one if it had UHD support. One, because it would give me something that I've been wanting to get(UHD player). 2. it would bring added benefit to games. Despite my distaste for this mid-gen paradigm, I could rationalize out a reason to make it worthwhile. As it stands, I can't do that just for better looking versions of the same games which run fine on the current PS4, particularly since it's possible that a lot of games will receive the HDR treatment going forward, thus already improving the stock PS4. I have no desire to get an X1S for just a UHD player, because I've been unhappy with the X1 that I already have in terms of game selection. That leaves a stand alone player, which is a perfectly acceptable alternative to me, but at the same time, they are kind of pricey for the sole purpose of watching movies.

[Goldby]

Rainslacker.

All great points. Ithink one reason for the digital push with the ps4 at least is the playstationbrand itself. Since day o e of the sony interactive entertainment switch, the playstation brand has been profitable. On top of their 4k push with playstation vue sony wants to keep the playdtation users in the ecosystem they have created. We live in an age of entitlement where people want everything for either a lot less or for free. Another aspect of the entitlement is wanting it now. Batman v super or any new movie or rv show is available immediately through any of their services, and playstation is making it so you dont have yo go to the store and buy the media itself, either purchase it online through the playstation store or stream it via many of the services offered through psn.

Sonys uhd blu ray devices arent part of the playstation brand but sonys brand. And as much as they work together they still have their own goals to achieve. And for videophiles, the uhd bluray device would be a smarter choice than a game console

[The_Sage]

Rainslacker,

It's astounding to me how similar our thinking is. I was set to write almost exactly what you have written, and must admit that I was somewhat glad to see that you had beat me to it. That's a lot of writing.

Very well said... And I couldn't agree more.

[UltraNova]

Exactly Rain!

Now when they announce The Matrix Trilogy in 4K i will probably consider investing in a standalone UHD player. Unless Sony enables 4K Blu ray playback on ps4 pro, somehow, then I ll consider changing my mind about never buying it.

[donthate]

Why would Sony not have the feature ready to implement?

That is ridiculous. MS managed to put it into the Xbox One S, and there are stand-alone players on the market. If anything, this is motivated by the fact that Sony wanted to cut cost, and figured consumers will overlook it. My guess is, they didn't realize they were going to get the negative reaction they did.

An alternative is that Sony is trying to push their own streaming service, like they kicked EA Access to the curb to push PS Now.

[SmielmaN]

This is the most interesting comment I have read on these message boards in YEARS. Kudos to you RSlacker

[Red_Renegade]

rainslacker and joeroc are very smart. they know what they're talking about when it comes to technology.

[Corpser]

A lot of people will never use it so why increase the cost for everyone

[Errorist76]

Exactly.

[Summons75]

Yeah, those lots of people who won't use it don't even have a 4K TV which makes the whole PRO system something they should have just not done in the first place. The people buying the pro HAVE a 4K TV, HAVE the 4k service from Netflix, and probably want if they haven't already bought a 4k blu ray player.

[SmielmaN]

Nah, I haven't made the jump to a proper 4K tv but I preordered the pro. I want better graphics, smoother experience, and top notch PSVR experiences. Could care less about 4K right now.

[OB1Biker]

'people buying the pro HAVE a 4K TV,'
Not at all
Even with a standard TV the Pro is a very appealing console for people who need a new one, or don't have a PS4

[MrBeatdown]

"The people buying the pro HAVE a 4K TV, HAVE the 4k service from Netflix, and probably want if they haven't already bought a 4k blu ray player."

According to?

I'll buy a Pro, and the last thing I'll be buying it for is because I just ain't getting enough pixels from my five or six Blu-Ray movies.

[GrontB]

Agree. And when the market catches up for 4k Blu-ray and there's more people with 4k sets that is when the ps5 will be on its way supporting all things 4k out of the box. I am more worried about getting a better gaming experience before I go out and buy 30+ dollar 4k movies (I'll watch thrice times most likely) for my gaming console. To me ps4 pro even without 4k blu ray support is worth the 400 their asking.

[Whirlwind_Fanfare_08]

Bingo!

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

Because the Xbox One S has one @ $299 and I just don't see how the Pro does not, I mean it can't cost Sony too much at least it would be cheaper than MS purchase of the drives... it's Sony's Tech.

[lunatic0001]

but i will (if it had it)

[pcz]

they only left the feature out in order to give them a 'must have' feature to implement into a new ps4 SKU down the line

[XanderZane]

Then why buy a PS4 Pro. You're getting a PS4 Pro because you have a 4K UHDTV with HDR10 hopefully. If you have one, most people would want to watch Blu-Ray movies in 4K as well. Unless you have a broadband that is doing 25mbps (3.5 MBps), you won't be able to stream 4K flicks on Netflix or Amazon properly and the quality won't look good because it will be compressed. The reason I'm not getting a PS4 Pro this year is because I don't have a 4K HDR UHDTV. Not getting the XB1 Slim either. No one should waste money on the PS4 Slim.

[donthate]

Lots of people don't use the blu-ray drive either, or the 4K/HDR output. Let's cut that too and save Sony some moonie! XD

[consolez_FTW]

Xbox fans who never planned on buying the system in the first place will find anything to complain about.
This feature is NOT essential. any physical media nowadays most people wont even find themselves watching more than once, twice max. streaming is def the way to go

[Chris12]

It's not essential, but it is desirable. Streaming is irrelevant to the point because if you have a 4K HDR TV, you already have the apps on your TV so the PS4 Pro add's nothing extra in this area.

[vega275]

Yeah cause everyone conplaining are just xbox fans. Yeah sure whatever help you sleep.

Since you blame xbox fans. Maybe they are smart enough to know sony didnt add a 4k blu-ray player because they want people to subscribe to their streaming service. You know the sameway sony gets you lot to rent games you already own with psnow. But sony knows its fanbase will make excuses like """ bu bu bu who care for 4k blu-ray" i rather stream 4k videos and raise my cable bill due to data caps.

Yay sony

[Goldby]

except PS Now isn't being pushed on the playstation Gamers.
PS now is avaialable for ps4 yes but its main purpose is for Smart TVs and PCs and chromecasts. ei. for people who are considering getting a playstation, or companies that would rather have the guest pay a rental fee for a game instead of investing in a console for every room. 60 dollar controllers are much cheaper to replace than 300 consoles.

Not everyone has data caps, myself haven't had a data cap in over 3 years, and when i did it was 1tb of data i had.

@Vega
Im not slow at all. try reading all the comments i have put up about PS Now. PS Now isn't for the playstation gamers. it is for people who don't own playstations. i.e. pc people, families witha smart tv and are thinking about getting a console and hotels, and resorts for offering a gaming option in their rooms for the guests.

Whats cheaper, 500 controllers going missing over the course of the year or 500 consoles going missing?
Resorts and hotels will choose the controllers over the console any day.
I dont pay for cable just like i dont pay for PS Now. i dont need to because i still have my ps3 hooked up. and use that when i want to play an old game.

alot of people stream through netflix but dont seem to have an issue not owning the movies. its the same mentality for ps now if it is what you are looking for.

also, you may not pay for ps now subsription but theres about 20 million people paying extra to ahve EA games that they dont own. whats the difference there? just their release date?

[vega275]

@ Goldby

Your a slow one arent you. Smart tv's dont need psnow for anything. I have a 4k samsung smart tv. I have 4k apps for youtube,netflix and others . Whats the point of psnow.

no pc gamer wants psnow because if those ps3 games never made them own the ps3 i doubt they will now. Beside people who did have the ps3 last gen already own those games from last gen. So stop it

You and sony must think people are real fools. You think people just want to throw money at another subscription service. Like they dont already for cable. You think people prefer to rent rather than own a movie or game. And yes pay 60 to replace a broken controller is cheaper than replacing a 300 console. But i own the disks i bought on that console. I dont own the movies or games i rent from sonys subscription service and my data cap won't go up because of streaming 4k movies.

@Goldby

Hotels and Resort will not buy this or use it. You must not have stay in many. Hotels and Resorts want to make money by RENTING to you while you stay to make more money besides renting you the room. You think again people will pay for a room rent the channel and have to pay again just to play ps3 games????? Yeah ok.

Psnow only play playstation 3 games. Who didnt own one already or who couldnt get one for cheap. Again your acting like people have money to just throw away on cable and and subscription service and netflix or whatever app they already have on their 4k Smart tv.

Do you have hard facts the 20 million are paying to rent EA games? I hope your not thinking 20 million xbox one owners are. Cause i know your not reffering to pc gamers. Pc gamers don't want much to do with origin.

[thisgamer503]

What makes you think it's just xbox fans?

[XanderZane]

You're saying it's not essential now because it's not in the system. If it was in the system you would be bragging about it, I'm sure. Give it a rest. When it's finally in the PS5, you guys won't stop talking about it. It's just like the Playstation Vue service. Everyone bashed XB1 because of movie, tv apps that it was getting. Now PS4 is getting Playstaion Vue and everyone who bashed the XB1 for those apps are not praising PS Vue on PS4. Serious hypocrites.

Sure Sony is all about games only. http://www.cutcabletoday.co...
Yeah right. lol!!

[Shubhendu_Singh]

Well...the truth is, most people doesn't consume bluray. And if omitting it brings down the "gaming" console price then all's fine for me.

Now please be realistic. Not having a bluray drive in a past rumored "PS4K" console definitely doesn't makes it future-proof. And you can bet your bottom dollar that XB:Scorpio will have one. It will be interesting to see how MS will manage the drive as well as made the console 400$, - because THAT price is more important than anything.
We do not need a second E3-2013 !!

[XStation4pio_Pro]

Sony chose to hit a price point, probably assuming that helped jump start the ps4's initial success to the comparatively more expensive kinect bundled xb1. They did the same thing with PSVR's deceptive price. $399 seems to be their favorite price point even if it means leaving out some things that make the experience complete (4k bluray, ps camera, move controllers etc)

Personally I feel that if this is going to be Sony's "big boy" console it would have been forgivable for them to charge a little more for it and give it a 4k bluray and advertise it as a more premium or "ultimate" experience (or whatever marketing word seems right). The more I think about it, the more I feel the PS4 pro is cool, but kind of a wasted opportunity at the same time. Its caught in this purgatory where it can't really render high end games in 4k, and it can't really give you the full 4k media experience either but yet its still better than the standard ps4. Like its just a little gimped in the two areas its supposed to be good at.

[Goldby]

it'll give a closer 4k expereince for games over the Xbox one S. remember that the one s is just the One in a smaller package and has a uhd blue ray disc drive in it. the games are still performing the same way they were before, rendered between 900-1080p then upscaled. the ps4p will be rendering a few games at native 4k and pushing 1440p resilution for most of the games before the upscaling begins

[KakashiHotake]

I think whats really at work here is basic sociology class conflict. A lot of people still can't afford 4k HDR TV's, nor do they want to upgrade which is perfectly fine as long as you're comfortable with your current LCD TV. For those that fit in that category 4k Bluray doesnt really pertain to them so it's not a feature that's desired by that respective class. However if you actually do own a 4k HDR TV you can see the value in having a 4k Bluray player, because even though Netflix and Youtube looks great in 4K, it still pales in comparison to 4k Bluray. Whenever people invest in new tech such as an updated TV set you want hardware that can take advantage of it with all the bells in whistles. It's almost like buying a new Mercedes Benz, nobody owns one just for the frame. This is where the comparisions between Xbox One S and PS4 Pro are coming from.

Both consoles don't do native 4k rather they both upscale. Both consoles can stream netflix, Youtube, and Amazon Prime in 4k, and both can do HDR. Where they start to differ is that PS4 Pro has a graphical advantage, whereas the Xbox 1s has a built in 4k Bluray player that just so happens to be the cheapest currently on the market. PS4 Pro costs $400 and Xbox1S cost $300. The same people that say the Pro will have a $100 advantage over the Scorpio need to realize the same principle applies to Xbox1s with PS4 Pro. Honestly if you have a 4k TV then Xbox1S may actually be a more appealing proposition than PS4 Pro just for the cheaper price and 4k Bluray drive alone. However if you dont own a 4k TV then IMO you might be better off sticking with the OG PS4 and waiting for PS5.

I just don't like how Sony tried to sell people on the idea that PS4 Pro is a 4k console when it's really not. It's almost like they tried to trick people that didn't know any better. I'm sure my comment will be downvoted to hell but so be it. People need to know the truth so they know exactly what they're spending they're money on.

[fr0sty]

Funny, I wrote a similar article right after Pro's announcement, which was failed as "fake" on N4G because Andrew House claimed that a firmware upgrade couldn't fix PS4 Pro's lack of BD playback. Now Gaming Bolt puts out an article that basically says the exact same thing, and it's passed through.

Here's the original article, which actually goes into more detail.

http://e-mpire.com/content....

[Eonjay]

So, if it can play 4K BluRays on a regular bluRay drive, then a UHD drive would be unnecessary. This is a much better approach from a consumer standpoint than actually charging the end-user for a whole new drive.

[TheUndertaker85]

The Xbox One Slim has a UHD drive and it didn't increase the cost to the consumer

[fr0sty]

@Undertaker

That's because the only thing it needed to do to add support was a drive that had the firmware telling it the error correcting code data blocks were inverted, and then they needed to upgrade the HDMI port to include HDCP 2.2. HDMI 2.0 comes with HDCP 2.2, and is also what PS4Pro uses. I believe they also put a hardware video decoder in there because the Xbox One isn't powerful enough to decode 4K HDR video by itself. If I remember right, Netflix stated it maxed out on 4K at 15mbps. A far cry from the 128mbps UHDBD offers.

[Silly gameAr]

You should do what gamingbolt does and have people approve your articles when they're submitted. You know these people around here don't play fair.

[fr0sty]

My article got approved, but was failed after the fact because someone reported it as "fake" citing House's statement about no firmware upgrade being possible. Of course N4G's mods immediately failed the article. Now Gaming Dolt does the same thing, rips off my article with a less informative article with more useless filler, and they let it slide through.

[Goldby]

Which article Frosty, Give me a link to it, and we shall begin the spamming for yours to be re-intorduced.

i too hate it when other people take info i have written and passed it as their own

[fr0sty]

It's linked to up top.

http://e-mpire.com/content....

[Gamist2dot0]

I think the price. Would I want to pay $500 for the Pro with a UHD drive? No, since I believe it's a first generation drive. Also, I don't see myself buying UHD discs anytime soon just like how I purchase blu-rays. I didn't own blu-ray dics until they started to sell at $15 or less which was about 3 years after they were introduced.

[thisgamer503]

a UHD drive cost $15 for MS so you can bet that Sony could probably get them from themselves for around $10 or so? I don't think that equals an extra $100

[Gamist2dot0]

No wonder it cost them only $15 (as you claim) for the drive and system az a whole for only $299. Unless, they release an update for it, otherwise, I'd rather wait for 2nd or 3rd gen UHD.
https://www.reddit.com/r/xb...

The PS3 may cost $600 when it first launched but that packed with an advance blu-ray player that supported all audio codecs.

[Yomiro]

I watch videos on my 4k tv from netflix and youtube and they all look beautiful.

[MattE]

At the end of the day, an ultra HD bluray drive should have been included.. talking up streaming is just a way of defending their decision but it was a bad move. Streaming the odd tv show is fine but movies, u have to be joking.. there is no comparison in true quality but if u have a shitty 4k tv to start with then I suppose it doesn't really matter that much. The casual PS players will be delighted with the price and that's all that counts for Sony

[nitus10]

Well, the real proof is in the sales and since the PS4pro will be available for sale come 10th November 2016 we shall see.

If people are so but hurt with the PS4pro not having a UHD BD player then they are welcome to purchase something else although no matter what device you get that will play UHD Bluray disks Sony still gets a cut.

[rainslacker]

I don't think the decision to not include it is going to really hinder sales that much. It's just a greivance that many people who want it, or expected it, have because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I don't think it would cost Sony anything to include a UHD drive in the system, because the lasers aren't any different than what's already included. I even question if MS is really spending $15 to include UHD in it's systems, because it may cost that much, but may have still cost them, lets say $12, to make it a non UHD compatible drive....which I'm not even sure exists nowadays since the ones in the systems can read at the proper speed.

I do think that it's not going to help PS4 sales though, as it's not going to give it that appeal to the casual buyer who happens to get it as a dual service type of machine....which is something that Sony has used to sell PS consoles for three generations. PS4Slim and Neo are both positioned to be ways to help the adoption of a new format though, which is a new thing for the console line itself, but this time, Sony decided to not go that route.

[KillZallthebeast]

Going out on a limb and saying it's drive. Though I don't care because I pay probably 200+ a month for tv/services/internet and I still pirate stuff. Because do want you want because a pirate be free. I am a pirate

[NeoGamer232]

Sony has taken on the role of deciding what is best for consumers and making choices for them.

No EA Access, paid backwards compatibility service (PS Now), 4K Blu-ray, PS Plus price hike, etc.

And before fanboys disagree... Microsoft did the same thing in the last half of 360 and early part of this gen... Pushing Kinect, DRM, limited first part exclusives, etc.

Just goes to show that gamers can't trust any companies to act in our best interest and give us choice. Competition encourages companies to act in our best interest and give us choices.

[TheColbertinator]

Agreed. Hopefully we as consumers can act with more control and not pay for ripoff services. Not a fan of DRM or season passes so I dont support such practices

[Imalwaysright]

"Just goes to show that gamers can't trust any companies to act in our best interest and give us choice."

That is exactly why PC is my preferred platform.

[nitus10]

Oh! so you did not mind when Microsoft forced Windows 10 on you or that by default Windows 10 does not respect your privacy.

The PC is also my preferred platform but I don't run a Microsoft operating system on it.

I buy a gaming machine to play games, not watch movies although the capability to watch HD Bluray disks is definately there. Unfortunately, some people can't seem to understand this. What next, insisting on it playing CD's or vinyl records or maybe VHS and/or Beta tapes?

[Imalwaysright]

MS didn't force windows 10 on me. If I have it on my PC is because >> I << chose to install it. As for privacy:

http://arstechnica.com/info...

You should ask yourself how Sony knows that PS gamers stream more than watch blu ray/dvd disks and how does MS knows how many hours X1 gamers having been using BC on their console.

[Goldby]

@Imalwaysright

Ms forced windows 10 on alot of people, you may have just decided to accept it instead fo fight it. 3 times i had litterally unplug my pc from the wall becuase MS was trying to install windows 10 on me at like 4am in the morning.

as for privacy :) http://thenextweb.com/micro...

they are apps that sony approved/ms approved for their gaming systems. are you actually serious about how Sony or Nintendo pull data from the apps we use. how else would netflix cater the expereince to you?
Difference is, is that the information is only collected when we are using that app.

Ms on the otherhand pulls info from EVERYTHING on your pc.

if you angry and write a word doc about how you are planning do to some very bad things, MS knows and probably so do the police if they feel it necessary. Ms is big brother no matter how you want to argue it.

Took away alot of people rights to choose what os they use. Took away everyone's rights who are on win 10 for privacy. and now they ahve taken away rights fo pc gamers to choose wher they buy their games. Windows store dont exist for play anywhere games, goes directly to xbox store and actually charges more than a normal pc game on windows store

[Silly gameAr]

What's stopping me from caring is that the PS4 pro doesn't need 4k blu rays to play the games. It does what a gaming console is supposed to do.

[thisgamer503]

Well I think since the ps2 they've always pushed the latest physical media platform. I'm a bit surprised they didn't include it considering they have a vested interest in the success of UHD Bluray

[nitus10]

I kind of thought that Sony would have a UHD BD player in the Pro at least but they didn't . Shrugs shoulders and goes back to gaming.

[Goldby]

they've always pushed media advancements with their upgrades. yes at the beginning that was dvds and blue rays, the ps3 had an upgrade that included a dvr. because at the time DVRs were a big hit. unfortunely the console didnt leave Japan, but sony is still advancing the market with their push on Playstation Vue and their own Playstation Store

[NeoGamer232]

Sony is not giving you the choice to play 4K blu-rays or not though. I think that is the big issue.

Microsoft was mocked last gen for not doing Blu-ray at all. Then, they were mocked by limiting consumer choice to DRM. Now Sony is doing the

[starchild]

Ha! So because a person likes to game it means they don't like to do anything else? They can't like games and movies? And you only want each device to do one thing? Tell that to my smartphone. Let's scrap this wonderful era of convergence!...just because.

[ziggurcat]

uh... it doesn't have a UHD player? i thought it was fairly obvious by now.

[Duke19]

People saying streaming 4K is just as good as having the physical source media putting out 4K are just delusional.

Yes 4K Netflix looks great, but it doesn't hold a candle to some of the 4k blurays I have seen.

[thisgamer503]

Netflix barely looks better than a 1080p bluray

[Goldby]

and how much did you pay fro those movies, and how many times have you watched those movies.
it isn't just that people aren't worried because there isn't a drive in the ps4, its the additional cost that would have in the long run.

if you are a videophile and actually enjoy watching in 4k, wTF are you buying a gaming console for that?

[starchild]

Because I'm a videophile with a budget. The PS4 Pro would have made a fine first UHD Bluray player, just as the PS3 was a fine first Blu-ray player for me.

[Mrveryodd]

@jcm888 nice read and spot on i would say
@mouldybread .. i cant believe you got a disagree , some here are just not right in the head ( i am one of them )
So we cant have the cloud because the internet is to flaky .... what about the people with crap connections , the cloud wont work for them .... i have heard that for years, so now all those same people are going to stream Netflix in true 4k.... not going to happen IMO

[sampson3121]

TO ALL CONCERNED, if you want a machine to play 4k ultra hd then buy one. what people are forgetting in all their articles and comments is that the pro is a "GAMING" machine.

sony built the ps4 with "GAMING" being the main feature while MS didn't. look at what happened, the ps4 destroyed the xbox one in sales. now, people are questioning sony for making another console with "GAMING" being the main feature. adding a bargin bin ULTRA hd player would have raised the price at least $100.

so when the Scoripio is priced at $599 because of it's superior power and ULTRA hd player, the complaint will be that the cost is too high for a console that is marginally better than the ps4 pro.

GAMING KIDS! that's what we buy console for.

[Mrveryodd]

PS4 sold better because it has more power and was cheaper to buy , so we shall see when the Scorpio is released with a whole PS4 power diffrence to the PS4 Pro (wich is amust buy for me as i have no playstation) ican see this selling very well indeed. i am in

[Huguinho]

Production costs, Sony is poor.

[Elda]

Don't care about movies,all I want is my games to do is play well & look pretty..isn't that what a 4k gaming machine is used for.

[TheColbertinator]

Sony is placing great effort to screw over their own fanbase and riding the money train first class this whole generation.

Their strategy is attrition

[Goldby]

Ms is putting in great effort to try and fix what they dun goofed with 3 years ago.
scorpio was announced too early in my books. but hey that what Ms does when they are loosing, wipe the white board down and start over. Generation 9 is starting in March with NX. and scorpio in the fall.

i wonder how many different bundles scorpio will have, how many will include MCC

[MAULxx]

I think we are still in very early 4k transition period.
If you're a big movie fan that has made the jump or soon will make the jump to 4k then you probably already have or will soon have a stand alone 4k player. I think many thought they were going to get a PS4 Pro & have the gaming features & the 4k BD playback for a cheap price. I don't think these same people will opt for a xbox one S that is an entry level 4k player that lacks the newer audio codecs. It will be an option for those who don't really care about audio & want 4k cheap.

The PS4 Pro is not a 4k BD playback gaming system. It's a gaming upgrade option for the current TV you have.

I personally love these new options. You can get a PS4 Pro soon or you can choose to wait & see how the Scorpio turns out. If you don't want to spend the money on an upgrade then you can wait it out for the new generation & not miss a thing.

[Petebloodyonion]

Here's my beef:
Sony position the PS4 pro for the elite consumer who wants the top of the line,
They suggest for optimal experience to get a 60 inches 4k tv with HDR10 support and they mentioned that they were trying to compete with the High end PC.
http://blog.us.playstation....

Well last I checked, good 60" tv aren't cheap (1000$ and plus for a 50")
https://www.cnet.com/news/d...

So perhaps if you are this kind of customer, I would expect that picture quality is important to you meaning having real uncompressed 4k vs a compress 4k streaming .
Also you probably are someone who see a huge difference in a 7.1 surround vs a 5.1 streaming option.
And finally, perhaps like me, you do love owning your movie.
So I'm quite puzzle by Sony's omission and I suspect more trying to sway customer to Sony's digital store for a true 4k experience.

For me this omission is as idiotic as trying to sell you a new console without HDMI but only Component cable and optical output while stating that you can still get 1080P signal and surround sound.

[DivineAssault]

I wish it had the UHD player & a bigger HDD in it but the omission wont stop me from buying it.. I have a 4K TV so the upscaling & optimization techniques will look better than regular 1080p.. Plus im buying the PSVR and want everything to look/play the best they can.. I understand if some people dont want it but i do.. $400 is a fair deal imo..

[lolosgolos]

Never seen Ppi supporting a denied feature... or wait ea access and mods

[senorfartcushion]

A lack of a blu ray drive?

[mastershredder]

Meh, seeing a lot of wild ass guessing and assumptions. I hate that.

[ChristopherJack]

Honestly haven't bought any physical media for myself in about a decade, too much effort.

[Master of Unlocking]

Interesting. So, according to this article, Sony can perfectly add support for 4K UHD Blu-Rays to the PS4 Pro if they want. Here's hoping they'll do it. Frankly if they didn't add it because the brand has 4K BR players to sell, what a shame. Sony should've learned that it doesn't work like that, it's NOT about what they want, but what gamers want, and the same is true for Microsoft. Consumers decide, and oppose hardware makers a fat "No" if they try too blatantly to nickel and dime them.
Maybe it's time the Xbox One S sold better than the Playstation 4...

[rainslacker]

"Sony can perfectly add support for 4K UHD Blu-Rays to the PS4 Pro if they want. "

It's believed so, yes. Most people more informed about all the technical stuff seem to agree that it should be more than possible with the new hardware. There was some speculation that it would be possible on the older hardware, but most ruled it out due to the HDMI controller chip not being HDCP2.2 compliant based on it's exposed pins.

As far as has been stipulated, the drive itself is capable since it's a 6X CAV drive. The HDMI controller chip appears to have hidden pins, meaning that it should at least serve that part of the HDCP2.2 copy protection spec. It's highly likely that it's also a HDMI2.0 controller since there is no cost advantage to keeping it lower. The hardware itself is more than capable of decoding UHD discs, even in the stock PS4.

As far as what Sony has learned, I'm not sure. Personally, I doubt the lack of UHD will really hinder sales, as UHD hasn't been a driving force nor seeing much adoption. Since stand alones will be cheaper than either console option soon enough, they won't gain from having it as an alternative...even if it's not as good as a stand alone. Even the X1S won't really gain much here, as while it's cheaper, it's reportedly less capable of the current stand alones, and probably will be even less capable than the new ones being released.

It very well could be that the extra costs, if any, was determined to not be of any real advantage to them, and they left it out, however, all indicators are that the system should be more than capable. House has said that a firmware update is not possible to enable it, which makes me wonder if it's true, or if they just intentionally want to not use the PS4 to push UHD adoption, and if so, it makes for a sticky situation going forward if they do enable it, because House did say it wasn't possible, so trust would waiver. I was hoping that they just didn't have it ready yet, but that makes me think they have no intention of ever implementing it.

Consumers can always express what they want, and I believe many are doing that now, and really trying to get better clarification on why it's not there. The excuses of digital taking over aren't acceptable to those of us who still consume physical content, and it disregards the actual potential market that certainly does exist, and even Sony's place in it. I know PS itself runs somewhat independently of the rest of the company, but it seems counter productive to throw it's movie studios, and it's hardware R&D/manufacturing divisions under the bus in the hope that they can drive more content through digital services, which won't always be their own service.

I don't know if Sony is trying to nickel and dime people. Their reasons may factor that in, but to me, it seems like more is going on. I don't buy that they are hoping a mass adoption of digital if they remove UHD playback, nor that they feel not allowing the feature will somehow drive digital adoption. I also can't believe that they would be willing to forgo the potential physical market in the hopes that it drives more sales to digital, and more specifically that they believe that it means PSVue would be more appealing or even acceptable to a market which prefers physcial to a reason. For the most part, it seems if Sony really believes what they do, then they wouldn't even be in the UHD market, nor making stand alone players, because what's the point, when the stand alones are redundant in the modern TV market which can provide it's own streaming services without the need for an extra box under the TV.

[keegamer80]

I always buy physical copies. Most movies have a digital copy. What happens if you can't afford your internet? Maybe a fiber wire gets cut. To me it's always better to have the physical copy. Just in case.

[nitus10]

I assume you are buying HD Bluray disks, not UHD Bluray disks since you give the impression that you don't have a UHD player. You do realize that all PS3's and PS4's can play DVD and BD movies.

If you don't have an internet connection then there is always free to air TV and you can even use a PVR to capture any shows that they transmit.

You won't find me disagreeing with you on your last statement but unless you are a videophile keeping a huge selection of movies is rather pointless since most people usually watch a show once and possibly twice (ok, I will concede that some shows do deserve watching a few times) and then it's on to the next show.

For games I prefer physical media, but it is possible to get incredible discounts on some games if you download them although the reverse can be true as well and even if you delete them you can always recover if you have an internet connection.

Unfortunately many games today seem to require the owner to have an internet connection for patches, updates and online play but recovery from physical media is still faster in many cases although that is changing.

[rainslacker]

Yeah, but maybe he'd buy UHD discs as well if he had the means to play them. The chance people will upgrade to new forms of media is hindered when the cost of entry is so high. Even if stand alones were cheap, it's hindered due to the uptake of streaming. But that cost won't always be high, and at that time, many people who prefer physical, may indeed move over. This is particularly true of those who prefer physical for reasons that include the best quality available, which streaming won't provide for quite some time.

If people want convienance, and just want to stream their movies, then fair enough. no reason to buy a console. Current BR players, and many new 1080 and almost all 4K TV's already provide this function. Sony has essentially removed any reason to buy their devices if they're going to go off the premise of "digital is on the rise". Even UHD players become redundant to those who prefer digital, so what's the point in including many of those streaming options? The physical market is there for those who prefer physical, and it's a viable market, as evidenced by large movie sections in big box stores. Sony is just making it so the PS4 doesn't cater to those people, and kind of insults those who wanted the feature by saying we're less relevant now, for what would have cost them little to nothing to implement in the PS4. It's short sighted.

Sure, PS4 is still a capable game machine, and can certainly sell on that merit alone. But that doesn't mean that some of the expectations that people have of game machines now can't be discussed or criticized, and Sony is one of the forerunners in setting up those expectations to begin with....so they don't get a free pass when they decide that suddenly something isn't important. They, more than any company in console gaming, have raised the expectations of what a game console should provide, and physical playback of burgeoning formats is one of them.

[DJ]

They're smoking. I can't even watch 1080p content online without buffering. I'll just get an Xbox One for 4K blu-ray. I miss Master Chief anyway.

[DreadGara]

So you can't afford a better connection and claims you have already the 4k setup without the 4k player yet......a common troll like you can be spotted within seconds, so yea... nice try.

[starchild]

@DreadGara

I'd say you're the one acting like a troll. Check DJ's comment history--he's a major Sony fan.

Not everyone has access to a "better connection". In some areas the best connection is still too slow for high quality streaming. And streaming still pales in comparison to physical media.

Just because someone is disappointed in a decision Sony made doesn't mean that that person doesn't like Sony. Quit trying to defend every little thing Sony does (and hate on everything Microsoft does). Just because I prefer Playstation doesn't mean I'm going to automatically act like everything about Sony's consoles is perfect and everything about Microsoft's consoles is terrible. That's the difference between being a fan and a fanboy.

[lunatic0001]

damn..what would really suck is if they could just enable 4k support out of nowhere in an update..if its already there...why not just enable for the people that do want 4k blu ray playback....i just don't get it...my tv already has netflix, hulu, etc built in...but you know what my tv doesn't have built in...a 4k blu ray player...cmon sony!!!!

[rainslacker]

I don't think it would suck. but at this point Sony would have to do some back-peddling on prior comments that it wouldn't be made available.

There are two possibilities being put forth as to why Sony wouldn't include it, assuming it was possible.

1. They don't want to hinder their stand alone player sales, as they are set to release one soon.

2. They don't have the feature ready, and didn't want to sell the system on that premise....which I find less likely, since it would be easy enough to say that it's coming, and avoid a lot of the criticism they're getting over this issue.

Both have merits, and the only other alternative is that the PS4 simply does not have the proper hardware to do so, which means Sony looked to cut costs. How much they saved per unit is up to speculation, but I can't imagine it's so much that it would have made a huge difference in the selling price, but could have made a big enough difference in their profit margins. A few dollars per system can add up to a lot of money, but I feel that looking at it like that only short changes them in the long run, as they now have artificially kept the adoption rate of UHD lower by keeping the barrier of entry high for those who wish to partake, which itself hinders Sony's own interest in the UHD market.

[purebennyc]

It's fine that they are focussed on 4K streaming but due to compression, 4K streaming is not as good as 4K blu-ray. If they wanted to give PS4 Pro owners the full 4K experience then the 4K bluray should have been added rather than going for what is essentially 4K lite

[deathtok]

Here's hoping they hear the public consensus and can add support via a firmware update. I'd love to have this supported. 4K streaming is nice but doesn't compare to the fine detail on disc.

[Drakul]

Sony you sucked this time, as a ps 3 and ps 4 owner I will buy X1 S and enjoy my 4K UHD movies on my 4K tv. I collect movies and people like me do NOT stream. period

[nitus10]

Wait a minute you have a 4K TV and you are a videophile but you don't have a 4K Bluray player and now you are going to get an XB1s because the PS4pro is not going to have a 4K Bluray player and you refuse to stream?

So you must be making do with those HD Bluray disks that only output poor resolution 1080p video, because at the moment I take it you can't play your limited selection of 4K Bluray disks (assuming you have some) since you don't have a player.

Something does not add up.

[Drakul]

OMG, 4K 101.....4k streaming does NOT equal to 4K native (UHD blu ray resolution)....yes, I was hoping for PS4 Pro would come with UHD player, just like they did DVD player with PS2, blu ray player with PS3. History 102 btw.

[mogwaii]

Im not a 4k owner myself but even when i do adopt (oled of course) i will buy physical media, like i do now and always will, with my amazing sony hx925 (one of the last full local dimming tv sony ever did) i do like the feeling of buying a blu ray movie i really dig and watching it knowing its lossless and having all the extras to go through afterwards.....i guess its kinda how the older gen felt with vinyl in a way, though i did really find it a bit cheap of sony not to add a 4k blu ray drive in the pro, such a silly decision and makes the "pro" tag a little redundant in my opinion.

[xetiro]

I want the best video-game console system at the best price possible. Playstation 4 have been this since the beginning. UHD player doesn't make the Xbox One better video-game system then the regular PS4, only makes a Xbox One look expensive when compared with a PS4.

Anyone with the money to invest on expensive 4K TVs and buying expensive physical UHD movies will never be waiting for a cheap console to feature a cheap UHD drive.

Video-game systems are mass market products. Sony focuses on the best for gaming at a killer price. They will never repeat the PS3 mistakes.

UHD physical movies it's a niche rich market that a video-game machine can't target without serious compromises on price or other cut-down features more important for gaming.

[thisgamer503]

Expensier?(more expensive?)

The Xbox and ps4 slim are the same price.

[xetiro]

Since for me a PS4 is a much better hardware console for games then a Xbox One, having both at same price only makes Xbox more expensive in terms of value for the money. That is what I meant :) But is my opinion, as for me, I couldn't care less for a UHD drive in a console.

[Str8Chaos74]

What’s Stopping The PS4 Pro From Playing 4K Blu-Rays? That's easy, good decision making.

[Vipre77]

wut's "anti-uh-lie-zing"? It's ANTI-ALIASING! AY-LEE-A-SING!

[Blubby]

The 400$

They tried to make an upgraded console as cheap as possible.

[Jayszen]

I am in the UK and I have the best Broadband connection speed available to me which is 200mbps. Forget about 4K on Netflix and Amazon, I find that streaming 1080p is problematic at times. I have tried watching 4K on Netflix (I actually pay for the privilege monthly) yet the quality is simply not the same as on UHD 4K discs and I never expected it to be. I would prefer to watch my movies on disc as the quality is simply better and always will be than streaming.

Sony could well have put a UHD player on the PS Pro but I suspect that they simply needed to meet a manufacturing deadline and did not have enough components to service both their standalone players and the PS Pro. I personally think they have missed an opportunity but it is not a deal breaker.

[Mr_Luke]

I miss the days where the gamers bought a console for the games. No wars, no stupid fanboysm (well. there's always been a "mine is better than yours" contest but not like today), just people that loved games.
If your priority is to watch UHD BD, then get the console that reads them. If you can and you like exclusives, gets both. But people like imposing their choices, criticizing if someone chooses something else.
We know PS4 Pro hasn't that feature, if you don't like it don't buy it.
Do we really need 9999 of these equal articles everyday? Leaving out this one maybe, because it goes more inside the tech but i'm sure in the next days (and months) we'll be submerged by them.

[vergilxx3]

lack of 4k content ;p

[windblowsagain]

I don't buy movies any more.

It's either streamed or downloaded tbh.

Blu-ray is excellent quality and I'm surprised Sony did not add the UHD version. But there must be a reason.

[Mr_Writer85]

Errrrrm the fact it doesn't have a UHD drive?

That's like asking why a CD Rom drive can't play DVD's....

[JoeDG]

Ok somebody have to explain me why a 4k smart tv user need the ps4 pro for 4k streaming?
My 4ktv have all apps installed. I don't need for the same job 2 devices.

[ILostMyMind]

Not needed at all. PlayStation is an console, was made for gaming. I'll bay a 4KTV just for HDR. I hope this stupidity 4k pass soon and developers do their games at 1080p/60fps. 4K is for the next generation.

[Condemnedman]

there is a lot of defence in this thread for non blu support and that's fine if you don't want it but as I have a massive 4k tv I want the option of. playing 4k on disc . I want that option Sony, I am the customer.

[ILostMyMind]

I agree with you. Suffice to launch a separate drive and let that who want it, buy it. I do not want and I'm glad not to have to pay for it.

[Deeke]

It's pretty simple: just a laser.

[life28]

OMG I am starting to hate these articles. SONY confirmed its just matter of firmware to allow blu-ray player and nobody knows about it lol.

[Apocalypze]

2016 - We want 4K even though we don't own a 4k TV.
Go figure.

[fllysurfer]

While I´m interested in 4K in the long run… getting a 4KTV eventually, I don´t crave storing BR discs or another sort of physical medium at home. I´m sure movie buffs would of loved one but I´ll do fine without it.

Sony most likely didn’t include a 4K BR player dude to price constraints on the PRO, it would of increased the price at least another 50€. 4K content isn´t yet so widespread that justifies it, although in 3 years that scenario will have changed.

[RedSoakedSponge]

from reading this it sounds like it could be updated in a system update to a 4k blu ray player like it did with 3D blu rays?

[ion666]

just watch this, it's digital foundry https://www.youtube.com/wat... they opened my eyes about 4k.

[EmperorRosko]

I'd rather stream to be fair. I tend to watch big blockbusters at the cinema anyway, especially when new release Blu-ray films are 20 quid. I'd rather spend that at the IMAX.

[EmperorRosko]

I may actually swap my Xbox one for the Xbox One S so I have both consoles in HDR and 4K Blu-ray available to me? And I get to play all of the exclusive games from both consoles! Sorted.