540°

Tech Analysis: Can The PS4 Pro Deliver ‘Native’ 4K In Modern Games?

Native 4K on the PS4 Pro may be possible with games build on outdated frameworks, but what about software that uses modern technology?

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gamingbolt.com
Neonridr2778d ago

Most likely not at suitable framerates..

gameseveryday2778d ago

It can and will for games that are build on older code or games that dont use modern tech. But if it does native 4k on something like Horizon then I will be truly shocked (in a good way of course!).

Genuine-User2778d ago (Edited 2778d ago )

Infamous First light is confirmed 1800p and upto 60fps. Doubt they'll be able to push new AAA games to native 4K.

1440p and 1800p look so good downsampled to a 1080p TV.

Edit: what part of my comment made some of you disagree?

Edit 2: @No Peace Walker

Infamous First Light does go up to 60fps on the PS4 Pro.

http://i.cubeupload.com/kQU...
http://i.cubeupload.com/D5V...
http://i.cubeupload.com/98A...

Something tells me that's not the reason why people disagreed with me. Because your 60fps statement is not even true.

As for what resolutions we'll see going forward? That's up for debate once we get some actual details.

DrJones2778d ago (Edited 2777d ago )

60fps in open world with that high resolution? No way, you have a link? Edit: You're right, it does go up to 60 fps. Impressive

Eonjay2778d ago

It wont have to. 1440 or 1880p up to 2600p delivers a convincing image in a very cost effective manner. So word on the street is that Sony build a hardware engine for their now famous checkerboard upscaling. Let the hardware get you to 4k and worry about making a beautiful game world. Not a bad deal for 399

CYCLEGAMER2778d ago

I don't get why people are confused about this....there will be NO NEW AAA games running in NATIVE 4k on the Pro. Sony has already basically confirmed this during the reveal. The only games that will do 4k NATIVE are indies and games built on old architecture. Why are people confused by this???

joeorc2778d ago

@Rashid Sayed3h ago
[It can and will for games that are build on older code or games that dont use modern tech. But if it does native 4k on something like Horizon then I will be truly shocked (in a good way of course!)]

Great point..also

I think what's kinda there on point is it seems the Older PS3 games yes 4 native , but not the newer more CPU/GPU demanding PS4 games no.. One of the good thing's is the HDMi port on the PS4 already has a upscaler already built in on a hardware level.

Here is what games reactor States

[It's important to mention that every PlayStation 4 will support the HDR10 format, not Dolby Vision. This is important because HDR content is made for either HDR10 or Dolby Vision. Though we doubt this will be much of a problem in the future, as the PlayStation 4 family and Xbox One S both will only support HDR10 content.]

http://www.gamereactor.eu/a...

And they state 1080p & HDR but stated no upscaled...but the PS4 does have one...Sony even stated all PS4's can upscale video's just not games.

PS4 will output movies and pictures in 4K Ultra HD, but not games

http://www.gadgethelpline.c...

See i think many are today they just assumed no scaled hardware chip based on the GPU..not the effect of the HDMi Controller chip already having a hardware scaler for video and static image. already having one itself..

The series of chip inside the PS4 models is this one..

Display of 4k images from existing Full HD video-source thanks to image enhancement functions (MN864777)
The image enhancement functions include 4k 50/60p Scalar[4] and Super Resolution Circuit[5].

1] HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface)
HDMI is a digital audio/visual output interface standard for digital consumer electronics and AV devices
[2] 4k 50/60p
4k 50/60p refers to the resolution of the images being displayed. Standard specifications are 3,840 x 2,160 pixels with a frame rate of 60 fps. PEL Format 4:4:4
[3] Electromagnetic Interference (EMI)
Unwanted electromagnetic waves that cause electromagnetic interference
[4] 4k 50/60p Scalar
Function that upsamples Full HD Images to 4k 50/60p in real time
[5] Super Resolution Circuit
Technology that displays super high definition images upconverted from Full HD Images to 4k 50/60p images

http://news.panasonic.com/g...

NoPeace_Walker2778d ago (Edited 2778d ago )

@genuine-user, infamous first light does not run at up to 60fps on PS4 Pro. It runs at the same FPS as the current PS4 game with unlocked framerate from 30-40 and avg about 35fps but nowhere close to 60fps as was already confirmed by Sucker Punch. That is why many disagreed with you.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Game...
Reddit: The developers have confirmed to Gamespot that the PS4 Pro versions (which will be updated via patch) of the two PS4 Infamous titles will run at the same frame rate as the original PS4, ie 30 fps. It's probably just going to run at a higher resolution or/and have better effects. Earlier in the evening, Jason Connell of Sucker Punch Productions told GameSpot during a roundtable interview that Infamous: Second Son and First Light's PS4 Pro versions will run at the same frame rate as the standard PS4 versions.

Also let not forget Infamous and it's DLC were first wave PS4 titles and would be easier to hit up to 1800p but there won't be many upcoming titles that are more demanding that will hit 1800p and upscale it to full 4K. 1440p I can see. IMO, it would be better if Sony allows 1080p native and 60fps for threse games on the Pro instead of demanding a bit higher resolution but same framerate as their same PS4 counterpart.

fr0sty2777d ago (Edited 2777d ago )

You can't call PS4's method direct "upscaling" however. It is far more effective than a traditional upscaler, which takes hold of the frame after it has already been rendered by the GPU and then stretches its pixels to fill a higher resolution frame before applying sharpening to bring out false detail and smoothing effects to help hide the pixelation. PS4's method works within the GPU itself, rendering out 2 1080p (or higher) images, which fills in about half the pixels needed for 4K, and then it uses algorithms to determine what the missing pixels should be based on what their two nearest neighbors are, both vertically/horizontally and diagonally. It too isn't free from defect, it can produce artifacts in some cases if not implemented properly, however the end result is FAR higher quality than just upscaling a 1080p (or even 2x1080p) image.

Also, 4K is 2160p (consumer 4K TVs are 3840x2160), not 2600p.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2777d ago
_-EDMIX-_2778d ago

Agreed it also begs the question what do they mean by modern? That might be a little difficult to Define PlayStation 4 Pro can very much do Native 4K clearly if the game is willing to sacrifice lots of graphical Fidelity consider the last of us is running in Native 4k on Playstation Pro

Could a developer not simply just reuse a last generation engine to achieve such a thing?

therealsasquatch2777d ago

Wait are you saying developers should take a step backwards?

_-EDMIX-_2777d ago

@thereal- nope.

I'm merely saying that they very much could if they wanted such performance.

Developers should do whatever they want to do, it's their game.

IamTylerDurden12777d ago

It can do native 4K. Isn't TLoU Remastered going to be native 4K on Pro?

Tbh, 1st party games will appear as if they are native 4K due to Sony's incredible, proprietary hardware and talented developers. Look at Horizon in 4K, it's jaw dropping.

Neonridr2777d ago (Edited 2777d ago )

"Isn't TLoU Remastered going to be native 4K on Pro?"

at 30fps yes. But like you said, a remastered game. We are talking about new games pushing the new hardware.

"incredible, proprietary hardware" you mean upscaling? Yes.. it does work wonders. But lots of hardware is capable of upscaling stuff. Don't act like Sony invented it.

Horizon is beautiful in 4K, but Forza Horizon is beautiful in 4K too.

peewee110162778d ago

Also naughty Dog came out and said The Last of Us will be Native 4k as well. Are also looking at Uncharted 4 as well

Sm00thNinja2778d ago

Uncharted 4 is not happening at native 4k

Kingthrash3602778d ago

It will hit the 60 fps for sure if they dont get to 4k. I'd take something like 1440p 60 without hesitation.
But if anyone can pull off 4k 60 on uncharted it's ND

Barricade2778d ago

@Kingthrash360

There's only so much even Naughty Dog can do with fixed hardware. 4k30fps isn't gonna happen on Uncharted, so don't even think about 4k60fps. But I believe Uncharted 4 with the PS4 Pro enhancements will be the best looking game out there, even better than Crysis.

bizzy2778d ago (Edited 2778d ago )

i dont think uc4 will be native, but it will still look pretty nice.

Sm00thNinja2778d ago

Uncharted 4 4k ANYTHING WILL BE THE BEST LOOKING GAME EVER

Stevonidas2778d ago

@Kingthrash360

Nope. CPU bottleneck. Doesn't mean they can't add spiffier effects for 1080p however.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2778d ago
S2Killinit2778d ago

yeah. Its crazy how if you haven't played that you are in for one of the best gaming experiences of your life.

LexHazard792778d ago

And they say I like to exaggerate.

RememberThe3572777d ago

Well both The Last of Us and Uncharted 4 are Amoung the best games ever made so I guess I'm not getting all the dislikes.

kraenk122777d ago

Surely two of the best games ever created. No exaggeration at all.

Tobsesan2778d ago

They talk about modern games and not last gen

2778d ago
bizzy2778d ago

sorry dude, i dont think native 4k on Uc4 is going to happen, but i don't mind playing TLOU again in 4k.

peewee110162778d ago

So many dislike? Why cuz i showed that the Pro can do 4k and if you google it you can see for urself lol. alot of mircodicks here

peewee110162777d ago

So many dislike. When its all of the internet alot of micodicks around and pc buttraces

peewee110162777d ago

Also never said Uncharted 4 was going to be 4k. I said that they were taking a look at it. LoL

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 2777d ago
MasterCornholio2778d ago (Edited 2777d ago )

In some games it will. Most of them will render above 1080P and use checker boarding to get to 4K.

Pandamobile2778d ago

Can you guys please just call it "upscaling" like normal people?

2778d ago
_LarZen_2778d ago

Problem by calling it upscaling is that people will think it's the same as on your TV or a Xbox One Slim. It's upscaling alright but much more advanced.

bizzy2778d ago

you do know theres a difference between checkerboard rendering and upscaling right?

vickers5002778d ago

@larzen

Can you elaborate on that? I thought upscaling was just blowing up the picture?

Kingdomcome2472778d ago (Edited 2778d ago )

There's a tangible difference. This isn't to say that what Sony is doing with their proprietary checkerboard algorithm is exactly what Remedy did with QB in taking it from 720p to 1080p, but in essence they are the same techniques, and it's much more advanced than simply upscaling a sub UHD framebuffer up to 2160p.

@Camarolover- Laugh all you want, but anyone that truly is in the know when it comes to the advancements that are being made in imaging quality will tell you that HDR is much more of a gamechanger than 4k in and of itself, and that it represents a significant leap forward that is up there there with the likes of the move from non HD to HD, DVD to Blu-ray, etc... Have you personally viewed true HDR content on a true HDR screen? The difference is sizeable, and devs have every right to be excited at the opportunity to add HDR to their bag of tricks.

Pandamobile2778d ago (Edited 2778d ago )

Lol you guys are so easily swayed by a bit of technical jargon. It's a pixel shader. That's really all there is to it.

No different than any other pixel shader. The only difference between this "proprietary checkerboard reconstruction" and old fashioned "upscaling" is that that rather than simply scale the image, it takes every pixel and runs a function that averages out the input pixel value with its neighbors and spits out four new pixels.

I guess in a way it functions like good old multi-sampling anti-aliasing (MSAA), but instead of using sub-pixels to improve image quality, it just generates a larger frame buffer.

Ta-daaaa.

FlameBaitGod2778d ago

Lulz I see so many special comments in this article, you can truly tell most people here don't know anything about hardware lol

IamTylerDurden12777d ago

Not all upscalers are created equal though. Sony created an incredible proprietary upscaler that uses a checker boarding technique, why do you have such an issue with that? It's true. Did u take issue with MS for coining "the cloud"?

MasterCornholio2777d ago (Edited 2777d ago )

It's a specific method of upscaling. I call it checkerboarding because it's the feature that's directly built in to the GPU.

Unlike most people I actually spend time in trying to learn how things work.

Edit:

You know what? FXAA and MLAA and MSAA are anti aliasing methods. Becasically they are techniques that developers use to eliminate jaggies. Just like upscaling there are different ways to reduce jaggies in video games.

P.S

I would also like to mention that QAA is my least favorite anti aliasing method due to the way it blurs the image.

kraenk122777d ago

But calling it upscaling would be insufficient.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2777d ago
The_KELRaTH2778d ago

I think the PS4 Ultra will do it - available in the next 3 yr cycle 😀. All the 2D games will be fine as well as simpler graphic titles. Today 4K requires a bandwidth of 300Gb/s without HDR and the PS4 Pro is 218gb/s so missing nearly 30%.

Much like the Sony touted 1080p for the PS3

badz1492778d ago (Edited 2778d ago )

so, you're saying Sony was lying? I think they announced 4k for TLoUR and RoTR will have native 4k mode too, right? still think they are lying?

The_KELRaTH2778d ago

They are a marketing company and clever with wording so that many believe something that ithey want to be real.

The games you refer to will NOT be native 4K games rather upsampled.
http://www.techradar.com/ne...

HDR touted in the majority of 4K TVs is not true HDR as they are only capable of 60-70 of the colour range.
The only TV to genuinely offer HDR (and also offer upsampling) are the rather expensive OLED TVs (ofter marked with Dolby vision).

IamTylerDurden12777d ago

Except, in 3 years (probably 2) THE PS5 WILL BE OUT, not the "PS4 Ultra".

The Last of Us Remastered was confirmed to be Native 4K on the Pro. Is it a simple or 2D title? Truth is, TLoU Remastered is one of the better looking AAA games on PS4.

Or...like how every 360 game claimed to be 1080p (they were insinuating native).

kraenk122777d ago

You mean like MS touted for X1?!

Show all comments (113)
60°

How to recruit Lam in Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes

Lam is among the 120 characters available for recruitment in Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes. While she is one of the many straightforward recruits, a known bug may prevent players from recruiting her if certain conditions are met. Despite developers’ assurances of fixing the bug, some early access players still encounter issues with recruiting Lam despite attempting the standard method.

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infinitestart.com
330°

Tomb Raider Remastered just quietly censored one in-game detail

Tomb Raider 1-3 Remastered players are ticked off by the game’s most recent patch, which censors in-game pin-up posters of Lara Croft.

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gamingbible.com
rlow112h ago

This is why gaming is screwed. When people change things to fit someone’s agenda, it’s a slippery slope downhill.

Christopher11h ago(Edited 11h ago)

Even if that agenda is of the developer? Way to remove developer rights.

***One player called it a “huge problem with modern games,” saying they can now be “ruined AFTER people buy them”.***

The level of drama. Yes, I recall sitting there for more hours than I did anything else in the game. These two pinups are the core of the game, after all!

coolbeans10h ago(Edited 10h ago)

rlow1's cringe catastrophizing aside, I do think developers *ought* to strive to maintain an original work to the best of their ability. The language of a "remaster" tacitly implies that - for good or ill - what's being resold is what fans remember but better.

Profchaos10h ago

Games can be ruined after purchasing them yeah we know this not from this but from GTA IV which had half it's radio content patched out due to licensing expirations and to me that was a huge deal.

This pin up poster is a bit of nonsense but the whole argument of modern games can be ruined post launch is Absol true.

DedicatedDark9h ago(Edited 9h ago)

It's not their work to censor. They are incharge of restoration & remastering the work, not overwriting it.

Barlos7h ago

It's not the agenda of the developer though, they're pandering and trying to increase their ESG score.

Way to support censorship...

victorMaje7h ago

It’s not the end of the world for sure, but I understand the hate towards this kind of change. I believe it’s also a matter of principle.

Imagine a Picasso painting being restored & the restorer deciding there aren’t enough strokes, or some lines aren’t straight enough or curved enough…not sure it would/should sit well with people.

Have all original devs signed off on this change? Even if it’s the case, are we saying older gamers are better mentally equipped to process what was there than current gamers, hence the change?

Enough time ago the case was made that games are an art form. We’re supposed to have won that case.
So which is it? Are games art or not?

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 7h ago
Eidolon8h ago

Hasn't this been happened for over a decade since remasters? I can't see that it's any worse now. Maybe if Sweet Baby starts getting their hands on remasters we will definitely have a problem.

Rebel_Scum10h ago

tbh I dont see something like this as censorship. Does anyone else not find it strange for someone to stick pin ups of themsleves in a locker room?

Now of it was a pin up of some half naked firefighters it might make sense as Lara might like that, and if they removed that I would cry censorship. But removing pin ups of the main character, yeah I get it.

Barlos7h ago(Edited 7h ago)

It's a game, and they were placed there for the audience. It's not real life. If it was, she wouldn't have fought a T-Rex now would she?

Yes, it's censorship but it's a bit less in your face. If they were in the original game, then they should have been in the remasters. It's bad enough that they have that ridiculous unnecessary warning at the start, but then they start removing things post launch. I don't care how small the change, they shouldn't be doing it. It's nothing but ESG pandering but in a subtle way.

Rebel_Scum6h ago

Look bro, if you have pictures of yourself naked on a bear skin rug up in your house let me tell you, its not normal.

jambola5h ago

I wasn't aware censorship was based on what made sense to you

Rebel_Scum5h ago

Likewise, what a stupid comment.

jambola5h agoShowReplies(1)
Aphrodia5m ago

And Lara Croft is also a mass murderer everywhere she goes. Why didn't they patch that out as well? See, anyone can spew pedantic BS.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 5m ago
SimpleDad7h ago

By the year 2030, this remaster collection will totally be changed and censored. Probably will remove Lara as a playable character. It's ridiculous. Glad that my family didn't buy this.
I still have Tomb Raider 2 PS1 as a memory.

jambola5h ago

Those shorts are a little revealing
Should probably make them snow pants

Barlos5h ago

They'll probably make her trans

CobraKai7h ago

It’s mentioned in the article, and it’s a point i 100% agree with, it’s the fact that they can censor a game after you buy it. That’s total bullshit.

Killer2020UK6h ago

Whilst it's an overreaction to say this has "ruined" the game, it's still problematic that this has happened post launch and for many, post-purchase.

I don't want someone to change a product for the worse after I've bought it. The same goes for implementing micro transactions after reviews.

I wonder why they did this? Nobody was kicking up a fuss as far as I'm aware.

maykhausonninh6h ago

Nobody was kicking up a fuss as far as I'm aware.

Show all comments (29)
100°

Final Fantasy III Pixel Remaster Review – You Are Your Job, Apparently

Gary Green said: In a time where an enhanced, 3D remake of Final Fantasy III already exists, it’s hard to argue that Final Fantasy III Pixel Remaster is the definitive version we were expecting. With Final Fantasy III already being the last in the series to be translated and make its way west, this is something of a slap in the face for the fans. Still, let’s not be disheartened. There may be many shortfalls in this edition of Final Fantasy III, however there’s no denying that this classic JRPG still holds some nostalgic value, even if it struggles to break away from its original hardware limitations.

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pslegends.com
FACTUAL evidence12h ago(Edited 12h ago)

It’s funny I’m seeing these articles about pixel remaster, and I just platinumed 1-4 within 8 days lol. I’ve been on FF5 for about a week now. Let’s just say 5 was the start of FF having content like crazy. I should have the plat within 2-3 days.

MrBaskerville3h ago

The game being an accurate represantation of the original was not a slap in the face to the fans. The 3D remasters looked like ass (visually) tbh.