PS4 NEO and Xbox One Scorpio May Cause Compromises For Base Versions Of Games, Says Developer

The PS4 Neo and the Xbox One Scorpio are now confirmed, and they represent a dramatic new paradigm for gaming console hardware, as well as console game development.

[Gazondaily]

This is something I definitely see happening.

Because devs have no choice but to have their games appear on PS4 and X1, they'll release half arsed versions of them and spend more time and resources on the Scorpio and Neo versions.

It's pretty crappy but I do see this happening which is one of the biggest reasons against these mid gen upgrades. Also, you'll never get to put those 6tflops to good use if you're lumbered by older more dated tech.

I guess it all depends on how well devs can scale rheir engines to work on the different specs. It works for pcs so it can work for consoles too. Interesting times ahead.

[darthv72]

I expect some devs to go rogue on neo and scorpio versions. You cant have these enhanced next gen (yes they are next gen) systems hampered by corporate mandates on game equality forever.

I'd venture that MS may be first to 180 their plan and sony will have no choice but to follow. Yes it will cut short the 8th gen but that 7th was unnaturally long to begin with. We should already be getting 9th gen class of hardware if the average generational length is 5 years (+/-).

Nintendo is bringing their 9th gen system next year, scorpio is 9th gen and neo looks to be 9th gen class as well. If it isnt then its like the 32x as a means to tide things until the ps5.

[sonic989]

thats the exact scenario i predicted for my video game retirement .
the next 3 years are going to be interesting and vital if my worst case scenario ( what you mentioned ) happen then gaming isnt for me .
btw i dont believe we have to pay for the long PS3 generation in fact it should resulted a more powerful ps4 in the start .
anyway we shal wait and see MS already hinted there might be scorpio exclusive games which isnt a good indication, its becoming more and more like apple iphone or samsung galaxy ( thats my opinion ) .
tough decisions are coming our way for sure and since the date i heard about the NX i predicted this scenario lets hope my predictions get wrong at the vital moment or otherwise bye bye .

[Godmars290]

Yet AAA titles are nothing but corporate mandates. Last Guardian may be the sole exception but then its a last gen honor project.

[Lennoxb63]

@sonic989

"MS already hinted there might be scorpio exclusive games"

Can you post the article where they hinted this. Cause I haven't seen any.

[Omnislashver36]

Depending on how powerful Neo is, it may be the same exact quality with doubled framerate. 4.14 TFLOPS isn't much extra room for greater graphics when you're at 60fps.

I'm actually hoping the 5.5 TFLOPS rumor is correct because of this...

[sonic989]

@len
http://n4g.com/news/1924445...
read the full article

[WickedLester]

IMO the best compromise would be to adopt a "rule of two" policy. Meaning that support for PS4 and X1 would continue for the duration of the existence of Neo and Scorpio. However once the successors to the Neo and Scorpio come out, the original PS4 and X1 support would drop and support would move exclusively to Neo/Scorpio and their successors, and so on and so forth.

[starchild]

@WickedLester

That's what I see being the best approach too. And it's the one I think Sony and Microsoft will adopt. Nothing else makes sense.

[The_Sage]

Oohhhh. 32x. Bad memory. (Shudder)

[Shineon]

7th gen was long because Ps3 and 360 were both powerful consoles when they released,Ps four and X1 were barely mid grade PC equivalents when released.They just didnt add up to an generation shift hell Ps4 and X1 are really ps3.5 and 360.5 while neo and scorpio are the real 8th gen systems!Yippy

[mkis007]

Wicked

That was my thought process exactly for the new iterations. I mean power is only important if it allows you to do something you couldn't do previously. This way the half steps will be for those people who want performance and the full step will be for new gameplay concepts. Look at force unleashed ps2 vs ps3. The power allowed things like DMM and the Euphoria engine.

Consoles to me have always been about price to entry and then exclusive games. Theres something to be said about being able to buy a game and then run it without having to worry too much about component compatibility.

[rainslacker]

Publishers will more than likely dictate that a game be released for the larger install base. Once the Scorpio/Neo install bases become significant enough to support a game, is when they will likely allow for exclusives to happen...and that's if Sony or MS don't force legacy compliance.

That's actually kind of how it goes now with new generations, and PC gaming considerations. Publishers want the game to be able to sell to more people, so in PC, we have the lowest common denominator factor, which is typically the average hardware base, maybe with a generation back added in for good measure.

[DragonKnight]

NOW you people are frickin' talking about this as a possibility?

How many of us said this when we were against Neo in the first place, only to be met with hate for even suggesting it?

Oh but now we have to talk about it.

All of you fans of mid-gen iterative consoles are the problem, you're causing this stuff to happen. Hope you enjoy the cesspool gaming is going to become because of it.

[Budrazor]

I agree. These are pretty much the next systems from Sony and MS(Neo and Scorpio). Maybe this becomes the new cycles for consoles. Every 3-5 yrs.

[badz149]

This is exactly the scenario that I feared will happen and that's why I was strongly against it, still am, but we all knew those consoles are inevitably coming now.

I think both Sony and MS won't go too far with the pricing thus I'm thinking the Neo will be priced at $399 and with THAT kinda price, the original PS4 is all but destined to be shafted by those wanting a new console this holiday. Sure the PS4 alone has sold over 40mil unit but if the Neo is picking up just where the PS4 still thrives, I can see that the original PS4 will be discontinued soon. What scary about THAT is the high possibility of devs dumping lower quality ports for the original PS4 which will just be in its 4th year and that is a terrible situation.

[ziggurcat]

@dragonknight:

"NOW you people are frickin' talking about this as a possibility?"

... and yet there's nothing to suggest that the thing you irrationally fear is going to happen will ever happen. the dev interviewed in this article doesn't have a goddamned clue, and even admits he's clueless. both MS, and sony have made it perfectly clear that there will be *no* games that are exclusive to the upgraded consoles, that *all* games will be playable on both iterations, that the only difference will be in visuals/performance.

"All of you fans of mid-gen iterative consoles are the problem, you're causing this stuff to happen..."

causing what "stuff" to happen, exactly? the only thing that appears to be happening here is a lot of FUD spreading, and gross overreaction.

[DragonKnight]

@ziggurcat: "... and yet there's nothing to suggest that the thing you irrationally fear is going to happen will ever happen. the dev interviewed in this article doesn't have a goddamned clue, and even admits he's clueless. both MS, and sony have made it perfectly clear that there will be *no* games that are exclusive to the upgraded consoles, that *all* games will be playable on both iterations, that the only difference will be in visuals/performance"

Where there is smoke, there is fire. The Neo rumours proved that much. So if you're naive enough to think that this developer doesn't know what he's talking about, that the fact that this isn't the first time this issue has been brought up, remember these days where people tried telling you this is going to happen because you're going to be eating a lot of crow.

[UltimateMaster]

The PS4 and the PS4 NEO are in the same ballpark.
The Xbox One and the Scorpio is half a generation leap when you consider a generation leap to be 8x more powerful than it's predecessor.
Already games weren't hitting 1080p on the original Xbox One... The difference in performance is quite something especially for those who wanted fair play for online multi-player games.
Again. People complain that these current consoles were weak... It's not by staying in the same generation that they are going to evolve.
Microsoft should have killed the Xbox One and started off fresh with a new generation rather than having Sony keeping it's lead in the console market. At least that's what I thought they were going to do.
A winning strategy for Sony doesn't mean it's a winning strategy for Microsoft.

[darthv72]

@ultimate, where do you get that a generation is 8x the previous? just a few examples 2600, 5200, 7800, NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Ps3, SMS, Genesis, Saturn...

All of those are generational examples and none of them are 8x the power of their previous entry. A generational improvement can be something simple like doubling the cpu and memory over the previous to radically changing from 2d to 3d.

Point is these systems are noticeably improved over the existing. You don't go from 1.8tf to over 4 and just think oh it's the same.

[donthate]

I wonder if, devs will just prioritize PS4/XB1 versions, because that is the version they are going to sell most of. Supporting PS4K/Neo and Scorpio is going to cost more and reach less.... it might just receive a resolution/frame rate boost, and that is it.

[ziggurcat]

@dragonknight:

"So if you're naive enough to think that this developer doesn't know what he's talking about..."

The dev admits he doesn't have any idea what's going to happen. So that tells me he doesn't really know what he's talking about.

"the fact that this isn't the first time this issue has been brought up..."

And every time this "issue" is brought up, it's just been to spread FUD.

"Where there is smoke, there is fire. The Neo rumours proved that much..."

That is not always the case. The only thing the Neo rumours proved is that the thing exists. We also have direct quotes from Andrew House, and Phil Spencer stating that all games are playable on both iterations.

[DragonKnight]

@ziggurcat: "The dev admits he doesn't have any idea what's going to happen. So that tells me he doesn't really know what he's talking about."

The dev also made an educated guess, which is more than can be said for you. Who is in a better position to talk about these possibilities, us or devs? Exactly.

"And every time this "issue" is brought up, it's just been to spread FUD."

Because not wanting to be forced to spend another $400 to get the REAL experience, not wanting to have "legacy titles" at all or have them gimped in favour of the new shiny is FUD. Yeah, it couldn't possibly be because the gaming industry is known for making garbage moves even when professing they won't. Right.

"That is not always the case. The only thing the Neo rumours proved is that the thing exists. We also have direct quotes from Andrew House, and Phil Spencer stating that all games are playable on both iterations."

Because direct quotes today mean direct policy tomorrow right? Changes NEVER happen in any industry. Once an exec says something, it's written in stone and the gaming industry is the biggest proof of that right?

[freshslicepizza]

im actually worries the opposite will happen, they will not take the time to make use of the more advanced hardware.

[uth11]

I think both will happen. A lot of games will do the bare minimum to satisfy the requirements mandated by Sony and MS, because the bulk of the audience is on the old consoles.

Some developers will design for the new spec and then they will release games that really struggle on the old hardware.

[rainslacker]

I think the new consoles will only have superficial gains to get the games on that hardware. Better graphics are a given, but native 4K support is unlikely given 4K TV adoption...at least for a while. Higher frame rate, maybe some better AA, but nothing so significant that it would impact the actual design of the game. Maybe better draw distances, and less blurring effects.

None of that is particularly bad, but hardly warrants the purchase of a new system IMO. It's all just going to be prettier versions of the same thing we have now....because that's all forward compatibility will really allow. It's the same on PC, as most games don't offer more in the game play arena just because one has a better GPU, and it won't be better on consoles because it requires more work.

But I also agree with Septic. I can see instances of legacy versions being gimped just to get the compliance in place, and getting more sales from the game. But even in such instances, the chances it can take complete advantage of the hardware isn't likely without creating two separate games to do so...and that likely wouldn't be allowed by either companies compliance standards.

[Debaitable]

Graphical options on consoles will soon come.

[radiantmind13]

I hope so.

[Good-Smurf]

I think about the same,normal version will have no graphical settings while PS4 Neo will run with the same graphics as the normal PS4 but now have graphical settings and sliders to adjust for better graphics or just better fps,that's Neo mode to me.

[conanlifts]

In the short term yes. But then if scorpio works ms will release a new more powerful scorpio in 3 or so years. Then the compromise will be that the new base level is now the original scorpio. This could be then be the future of console releases for ms.
Also ms has stated developers can make exclusive content if they wish. VR for example won't really work on the xbox one.

[xander70769]

I don't think there's actually going to be "separate versions" nor was that what the article implied. Instead, we might see a drop in optimization. One of the main strengths of consoles over PCs is that console games are generally far more optimized, because every hardware configuration is the same (not saying console games are "better" than PC Games, strictly talking optimization.) I don't think this will be a huge issue because there's still only a few different configurations.

What we should see is games having more customizable options like PCs have, such as the ability to change resolution, change fps from 30 or 60, etc. The concern is that Devs will still make the base game versions too much for the vanilla hardware to handle. For example, the vanilla game runs on regular ps4, but has frame rate drops, screen tearing, and other performance issues because the Devs are optimizing more for Scorpio and Neo, and not so much the original consoles. Ideally, we want the games to run well on all consoles.

[jts1891]

Honestly, that's my biggest concern and a big reason I'm considering moving to PC gaming if the Neo and Scorpio are actually successful. One of the biggest advantages offered by consoles was optimization over it's life cycle. Optimization allowed dated hardware like the PS3 and 360 to produce games like the Last of Us and Halo 4. If this whole 'mid-generation' nonsense really takes off, that's going to be a thing of the past. Console hardware will never be pushed to it's full potential before a new console with higher specs is released, which to me dramatically reduces the value of actually owning one.

Add in the fact that a new hardware release every 3 to 4 years effectively throws console gaming into the same price range of owning and upgrading a decent PC, well.

[jb227]

I would see it being the opposite really. It'll be cheaper to target the weaker platform, and the install base will be significantly longer for an indeterminate amount of time. We've already seen a lot of gamers hang on to their last gen consoles as long as possible, now they will have even more reason to do so.

This is why I think these machines may end up getting exclusives sooner than later, regardless of what the companies are saying. I personally think Scorpio will be the first to go that route & Sony will be forced to follow along. If these are premium machines at a premium price they will need something special to get people to buy a new console that technically plays the same games from the old one.

[fr0sty]

If kept under control, it could be a good thing for gaming. Until now, the generational wall completely separated communities of gamers. Take gamers who had the last gen version of Destiny, for instance, not being able to play with current gen. Also many gamers didn't get to enjoy the new games unless they forked over a bunch of cash for a new console, which not everyone can do. Developers also get hurt every new console cycle as they have to take big risks and release AAA $$$ games to a very limited install base. From now on, that won't happen anywhere near as often. I see potential for a 2-3 console release (at least 6-8 years, maybe longer) backwards and forwards compatibility before you have to upgrade to keep playing new games. You'll be able to play all the newer games for many years, even if it isn't the best version. Game developers will take more risks due to being able to sell to those older install bases, and they won't have to take chunks of their team to devote to porting to older consoles. All they have to do is design the game with 3 (or however many consoles back they are required to support) systems in mind, which is still FAR easier than PC devs have to deal with. We should see better games as a result, not this software drought at the beginning of every generation because few developers are willing to take the risk of supporting a new system.

[BattleAxe]

It'll cause compromises with the PS4 Neo versions also. Those 4 Tflops will be chugging hard in an attempt to look even a fraction as good as a Scorpio version of a game.

[jb227]

I think you are severely overstating the rumored gulf in power. It has already been said to be roughly the same percentage wise as the gap between PS4 & X1, but in MS' favor.

Unless you honestly believe that X1 is chugging hard to look even a fraction as good as a PS4 game, which is kinda ridiculous. There's a difference but it isn't a tremendous as you are making it out to be just like it's not as tremendous as some PS4 fans made it out to be over X1. Ain't like the Wii U competing for current gen standards by a long shot.

[Officialxandr]

Agreed. I'm getting a Neo day one for sure (who doesn't love a better version of their game). It is going to suck for those who decide not to upgrade and end up getting shafted.

[blackblades]

There wasn't really an issue when games went on both ps3 and ps4 hell or even the vita. It's like people want it to fail or something. To add people bought the games on ps3 instead of the ps4.

[dcbronco]

Is that really what will happen Septic? What I see happening is more developers will use dynamic resolution. That and tweaked AI and crowds. Nothing that hasn't been done before. This is no different from PC except that it is a closed spec to target.

The reality is we never get the great new gameplay we are promised with more power. We get the same games with better graphics. Dynamic resolution solves that. What's next? Scorpio owners will get a 4K graphical patch and fps will get a bump.

[susanto1228]

It's also going to cause two divided camps among each consoles...the Xbox one 1st version is holding us back!! crowd same for PS...

It's not that hard for developers to downscale an xbox or PS4 game to lower versions...it's just a lot easier on PC which is why I prefer PC games over consoles which is what both of these versions are sounding more like....just a PC/console except MSFT and PS are doing the choosing for you...(LOWEST BIDDER)

[Tech5]

Septic - "Because devs have no choice but to have their games appear on PS4 and X1, they'll release half arsed versions of them and spend more time and resources on the Scorpio and Neo versions. "

Not sure of this, but naturally many who purchased a console this gen may eventually feel that they will get better game value with stronger hardware.

[OB1Biker]

I don't know about xbox but I do hope their main focus will still be on the base PS4 that will remain the console most PS gamers own. Seems to make more sense to me. Like you said they ll never use the upgraded consoles to their potential since they are hold back by current gen compatibility.
Until the PS5 that will have true exclusives leaving the current generation behind.

[Sunny_D]

Mid gen upgrades are still one of the most annoying developments in gaming to ever happen and it will be a while before I decide to invest in one of these consoles. Is rather enjoy the normal consoles now and then move on to the actual Next gen.

[Saithraphim]

I dont believe this will be an issue, maybe i'm overly optimistic but it seems that the development process will be more in parallel to PC gaming development. Developers will make games that automatically adjust curtain display parameters (Resolution, Effects etc) based on the system and maybe even user preference.

[Mithan]

Same game, lower graphics option.

[Corpser]

Only way og ps4/xb1 don't become 2nd class citizens is if Neo/Scorpio are complete flops

[UnHoly_One]

I still think it is more likely to go the opposite direction, and the XB1 and PS4 versions will be fine, with the new console versions showing very little improvement.

[Nathan_Hale53]

Eh some games it works for PC. We typically get shafted a bit in a few ways.

[IamTylerDurden1]

It isn't necessarily a bad thing. Obviously they will build games up to Neo/Scorpio and then downgrade them for PS4/x1. However, games won't necessarily be worse off bc of it bc the games will reach an overall higher level than they would've before. The only thing downgraded will be post fx, resolution, ect. Games will probably be more progressive and more dynamic bc of Neo/Scorpio. There's 2 ways of looking at it, it's almost like next gen came early in a sense.

[IamTylerDurden1]

You're contradicting yourself. If devs are building games up to Neo/Scorpio and then downgrading them for PS4/x1, shouldn't they then be utilizing the full 5.5 or 6 teraflops?

Making games for different specs shouldn't be difficult at all, pc does it without issue. PC has to account for a lot more than two sets of specs.

[Gazondaily]

No you miss the point.

Devs HAVE to cater for the X1/PS4. They'll focus more on the upgraded hardware but by virtue of the fact that games will have to be on current gen consoles, that power won't be put to its maximum use.

Think of cross gen games as an example really.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Ur wrong, it's more akin to how they design games for pc than it was making cross gen games (PS3/PS4). Cross gen games were working with 2 completely different architectures, while PS4/Neo games will both be using the x86 pc architecture. Designing games for PS4/Neo will be easier than designing games for pc, and it will be MUCH easier than designing cross gen (PS3/PS4) games.

Did a game like Witcher 3 suffer? Do pc games suffer bc they have to be designed for many different potential specs?

Ur missing the point, playing on a Neo/Scorpio will be like playing with ultra settings and playing on PS4/x1 will be like playing on normal. Nobody will suffer. It's just like pc now, your cross gen comparison doesn't hold up, the pc comparison does.

[Lennoxb63]

That's why you prioritize the base game first. The Scorpio and Neo will simply be for pushing the sliders up in the graphics/res/fps settings.

[AHall88]

One would think/hope that. At least until the Neos and Scorpios move a certain amount of units. (I.E. They are at least close to matching the PS4/X1 base numbers.)

[uth11]

I don't think they have a prayer to match the PS4/XB1 base numbers. Partly because of price, partly because there was a pent-up demand for new hardware at the start of this gen, because the last one was so long. There won't be nearly as many people itching to upgrade after only 3 years.

[UltraNova]

No forget these sales numbers. Now that the cat's out of the bag, meaning that we know of Ms and Sony's plan to turn consoles into iPhones, most people will hold to their current system and buy the one after next. Thats what I'll do at least. I will not spend a.cent on half assed mid gen upgrades. Its going to be ps4 the ps5 then ps6 and so on for me.

[rainslacker]

Which sadly means that there is no real advancement on the game design. It's a superficial gain. While many people like better graphics...I mean...who wouldn't?...it still doesn't allow the kind of freedom to try new things that weren't possible before.

Granted, not a lot of that happens anyways, but it'd be nice for those devs that actually do go to the effort to innovate and do more with more power.

[InTheZoneAC]

no real advancement in game design? games are developed all the time with sacrifices to certain areas to meet their goals. Neo and scorpio allow them to keep most of that original idea intact. You're speaking without having seen any sign of validation from your insults on these devs to put forth extra "effort" and do more...

[rainslacker]

I'm speaking from the point of view that the legacy hardware still has to be considered when designing the game. It's either sacrifice the game on the legacy hardware, or sacrifice it on the new hardware. Game design can advance without new hardware, but it doesn't really change that much. Even this gen doesn't see a lot of advancement on the game design itself, and the gains are just more graphical and have more wow factor.

Not saying there won't be any advancements, just that devs won't be able to take full advantage of the new hardware if they have to consider the old hardware.

I'm a dev. I don't insult them. I know what they have to work with. It's not an insult to say that they can't do something because hardware is limiting them, and by your own admission, they'd have to sacrifice something to achieve changes, and more often than not, the graphics aren't sacrificed to usher in innovative game play.

[Bruh]

Ahhh if only there was some magic toolbox that let you do that. You can't prioritize the base versions because as you push graphics technology further and further, you move away from out-dated hardware and begin to compromise to meet ends. Thus its easier on developers to code on stronger hardware cause they don't have to do extra work to meet their vision.

[InTheZoneAC]

exactly, would appear to be common sense but that idea is going right over people's heads...

[Corpser]

People that have Neo/Scorpio are not going to want just slightly better graphics and will be pushing developers and telling everyone else to upgrade, that's totally coming

[sammarshall102]

With Microsoft having the UWP and being proficient in software it will be easier for them to make different versions of games than Sony

[ecchiless]

No, uwp is not the panacea what you are thinking.

[sammarshall102]

They already have the set up with Xbox games releasing on PC it'll be similar code with the Scorpio

[343_Guilty_Spark]

It may not be a panacea but last I checked Sony has nothing like UWP.

[jb227]

Yup...wasn't QB a UWP title? We all saw how well that worked out for the PC at least at the outset.

Believe the media line all you like, but when you do that in the face of clear proof to the contrary, the only person you will be disappointing is yourself. It's gonna take some real time to make UWP titles function as advertised on release. It ain't some magic cure all.

[GameBoyColor]

These don't know how much of a shitshow uwp and the windows store in general is.

[Christopher]

***They already have the set up with Xbox games releasing on PC it'll be similar code with the Scorpio***

Not the most winning argument considering the quality of the PC releases from XBO games so far...

[Immorals]

Less UWP more DX12. Remember how much they stressed how easy it is to port games running on it? How scaleable it is?

[kenwonobi]

People have said basically this same software mumbo-jumbo this whole generation. It never amounted to anything.

[objdadon]

If those pc ports are anything like the quantum break and gears ultimate debacle then Microsoft has a long road ahead of them.

[Aenea]

What? For those 2, maybe 3 exclusives each year? :p

Besides, people seem to think that UWP is something magical, it totally isn't, it will not help in the way many Xbox fans seem to think it will.

@343
It's just a freaking API with several implementations for the different Win10 devices it supports and that is only for the Windows specific system calls a program needs to make. DirectX is what is used for the graphics in games and has nothing to do with UWP.

Go read up on APIs, on UWP, Windows, DirectX and their Sony counterparts, you might get rid of these stupid ignorant fanboy posts...

[sammarshall102]

I'd be down with the Scorpio and Neo having games made from the ground up on them

I wanna see all of the CGI graphics level games they can produce

[ShadowKnight]

Not going to happen LMAO 😆😂

[sammarshall102]

We'll see

[DarXyde]

If you ask me, the best way to make everyone happy is to release games on the base models in very playable condition and then make it amazing on Neo/Scorpio. Ideally, I'd rather they not push the hardware so hard that it doesn't reach 60fps. Neo and Scorpio should be 1080p+ and 60fps, period. They push the hardware too hard for visuals and you're not getting 1080/60. I'd like games like Uncharted 4 and The Order:1886 running at those levels.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Already knew which site posted this before I even opened this page up, lolz

[kenwonobi]

Push the hardware. That's what it's there for.

[Majin-vegeta]

Na they will mostly just release the game and then release a patch for Neo/Scorp version

[JEECE]

Hence why they are both terrible ideas. Wait until 2018 or 2019 and release a true next generation of consoles. Keep the full BC for the previous generation, but drop the confusing and muddled message about the new systems being part of the same family and not having any exclusives.

[KilKarazy]

If I can play all the games going forward that I buy on whatever console comes next who cares? People buy $800 phones every two years why not a $400 console every two or three

[conanlifts]

I agree. In the past gamers disagreed with this concept. But if every game works going forward then its a great idea to make console releases every few years.

[AHall88]

I don't know any people that drop $800 on a new cell phone every year.
I do know people that upgrade their phone and make payments on it through their bill.

[objdadon]

No, consoles ain't phones

[hadowajp]

I'm here for this, if you can still play one generation back I think this could work very well. In this scenario the budget consumer can just buy every other console release and is still making a purchase every six/seven years

[Jon_Targaryen]

You are aware people buy these phones through cellphone contracts yes? Its not as if I go out every second year and buy a new $800 phone cash you know!

[Antifan]

People don't actually pay $800 for those phones tho. That's the price of a phone without a plan. They normally cost $0 - $200 with plan.

[DarXyde]

In reality, it's an added expense. And people are much more inclined to drop money on a phone since it's a multimedia device you take on the go and use to keep constant contact with people. It's a communication device first with some functionality that becomes very utilitarian. Flashlights, bill paying apps, calendar, etc.

What I'm saying is you're comparing people's willingness to invest in a multifunctional tool to their willingness to regularly shell out for a stationary device whose only function is to entertain.

Not really comparable.

[S-Word]

There will obviously be compromises but it's up the developers to let gamers choose what they want compromised. Look at Nioh. The demo let you choose between better graphics OR a stable framerate. Neo will likely be able to have both but those without a Neo will have to choose between one or the other. I'm sure Scorpio will be similar where it can have both better graphics & framerate while the regular Xbox One will only be able to choose one for their games.

[SouljAx360]

Base versions of games will be exactly how they are now. The good developer's games will run stable and look decent, and then other games will have FPS drops into the teens. Nothing will change but hopefully if you buy better hardware like Neo and Scorpio you won't have to worry about it anymore. I really, really hope that Uncharted 4 and Bloodborne get upgraded for Neo. Well I hope they all do, but those 2 are the games I personally would love to see upgraded for 60FPS maxed graphics.

[phoenixwing]

I said this would happen but people thought it was somehow impossible to occur. Now you have a dev stating how it's going to go down. I always thought that the base versions would get a little less polish thanks to the mid gen upgrades and I knew it was happening to my ps4 the moment sony confirmed the neo.

[jessionpc]

What a fkn joke.

Developers ALWAYS focus on the lowest common denominator first. They 100% aren't going to cripple the likely 50 million sales console for the 1 million. GOD that's stupid to even THINK that's going to happen. Completely. Retarded.

What IS going to happen is 900p will become the new PS4 standard as they attempt to maximize, "in game engine", graphic fidelity while lowering the resolution to get that 30% performance gain, then reset the resolution to 1080p 60fps on the Neo. So expect Uncharted 5/TLOU to be 900p30fps instead of 1080p30fps, "The right choice, and the natural choice because they are going to do this anyways, like this did last generation and generation and generation before."

Sony has already stated they are going to have a, "next generation", console, so expect that in 2019-2021, "The Neo will likely lengthen the generation a couple years, so basically last gen all over again.", so just sit tight and enjoy your games and stop making controversy where it definitively doesn't exist.

[qwerty676]

Expected, and as more and more people jump on neo and scorpio the devs will spend more and more time just optimizing for those.

[Maxor]

They'll do what they'll do with the consoles. They rape. Oh you want that premium Neo patch or version of the game? Buy the deluxe edition or season pass.

[DualWielding]

Exactly that's why iterative console are a terrible idea

[medman]

This dev makes a good point, but as usual, money is going to be the deciding factor. It is practically impossible, at the prices that the Neo and Scorpio will command at launch, that either will ever catch the PS4 or Xbox One in sales. And as long as the number of gamers for the ps4 and xbox one far outnumber the sales of Neo and Scorpio, those systems will be a high priority because that is where the majority of software sales will be. So there will be a natural progression toward prioritizing the Neo and Scorpio, but that will take perhaps 3 years, and by that time you already know we'll hear whispers of PS5 and the next greatest Xbox.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[WelkinCole]

I said this many times before but no one listens. This is my biggest fear of having two standards. Resource allocation and the real chance of both two standards not being pushed to their limits like has been the case with a single standard for consoles from the start.

[JasonKCK]

OMG people! smh they will just develop the games like they do on PC. There are thousands of different hardware variations on PC, this is just 4. There is no difference here considering all modern consoles are built like PC's. Since MS has been in the PC market since the BEGINING! Pretty sure they know what they're doing.

[MasterCornholio]

With Sonys consumer friendly policies I don't see any PS4 owners getting screwed with exclusive NEO games since developers are obligated to make games for both.

However if there's one thing that Microsoft taught us is that strict policies can change very quickly. Same can happen with Sonys.

[ziggurcat]

the thing is the dev in this article doesn't even say it might/will/may happen - he just says he hopes something like that doesn't happen. it doesn't make sense to suggest that the base/vanilla version would somehow be compromised - if anything, to me, it'd be the other way around. this is really just a case of gamingbolt spreading FUD for clicks, and preying on people's fears of there being exclusive content for the new consoles (despite both MS/Sony stating clearly that that will not be the case).

[Filmicfps]

"With Sonys consumer friendly policies I don't see any PS4 owners getting screwed with exclusive NEO games since developers are obligated to make games for both. "

Oh really?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media...

[RedSalmon]

Just get a PC. Under this new wacky way MS and Sony are iterating its gonna cost more and you'll be locked into tech they decide.

[Tobsesan]

No sheet sherlock

[Bolts]

Can't wait to join the Neo master race!

[Phoenix76]

I've said it before in a similar post, devs will start look at put games out in two different variety's. CoD BO3 is the prime example of how it will go once neo and scopio are out. The last gen will get half of the game. If you want the full game, buy the next gen version

[Razuel]

The compromise is ageing hardware based on tech from December 22, 2011, released 2 years late when better nanometer process should have been ready. It is what it is, a 4 year hardware refresh is reasonable. Looking forward to it.

[andrewsquall]

Gamingbolt yet again talking to a small person at a small studio about big statements and big opinions for the industry.

[gedden7]

I've said almost a year ago, the Nintendo nx would force Sony and ms to make their new system much faster than expected and here you go. (Pat my own back). Let's not forget that the nx could be in the mix as well but with out any constraints. If the power matches the ps4 neo or better, the devs wouldn't have to worries about down scaling the nx versions, why? No other systems to worry about. Simple as that. These devs now or still have to worry about the ps4/xb1 then upscale the game. The nx would have that problem. If all lines up, it could be VERY interesting.

[InTheZoneAC]

When talking about worst case scenarios I think the scorpio has a much greater chance of failing or succeeding, while leaving xbone in the dust due to the enormous differences in power. The differences are much greater than neo compared to ps4. But M$ has to play their final card to show the world where they're going and if they're going to once again abandon their early customers.

But again, how hard is it to develop games for the ps4 and xbone like they've been doing, then adding time to optimize and enhance for the 1.5's of this generation? People keep talking backwards like they game gets made for the high end consoles then downscaled for the current systems, that's not how it works.

Why is it this was never an issue with pc gaming when they have to provide hundreds of different game settings for millions of different setups? They have two systems to work with now and all of a sudden it's hell for devs? OK...

[Jag-T1000]

I'm not buying these two updated systems. I'm 40 years old will probably retire and just play retro games.

[Bobafret]

Devs have dealt with many, many different configurations for PC for years, I don't think this is going to be that big a deal.

[PirosThe4th]

We already experience this on pc. It's not that hard ffs.
If devs can make use of countless hardware on pc why cant they use only a handfull?

[SonyWarrior]

theres a lot of dumb incompetent developers out there this is one of them.

[Pancit_Canton]

Does gamingbolt have any other source besides some random developer that you haven't heard before?

[krypt1983]

I can't speak for Sony because I don't know what api they use but with most games on xb1 using dx12 they will scale accordingly, the only time I see this being a issue is if/when the game worlds get bigger more detailed and that shouldn't be a problem for another couple years

[Artemidorus]

That's my generation of gaming ending for quite a while. Must be the iPhone generation buy product get an upgraded product buy another one then another one.

[SaveMeJebus]

I'm done with gaming. PS4 is the last console I ever buy and my PSVR pre-order has been cancelled. The rest of you can deal with this drama.

[isarai]

Again this has been my worry from the start but everyone disagreed, check my comment history.

[XStation4pio_Pro]

Seems like PC games have been able to handle the variable power of different machines (not to be confused with sometimes sh**y ports that were built for consoles first) I don't see how it could be harder on consoles. If anything it should be easier because your hardware set to 2-3 machines tops. You can optimize specifically for that hardware rather than having to deal with 200 different pieces of hardware. Pc's do it. iOS devices do it, android devices do it and so on. This to me seems more like some people can't deal with change.

[_LarZen_]

And it may snow on Christmas.

[ColonelRex]

All the Ps4 neo and xbox scorpio consoles are gonna do is allow you to play the games in higher HD resolutions with higher frame rates per second per second. Nothing more nothing less. Developers are not gonna make games where only the Neo and Scorpio can play because the install base of these two consoles will be tiny compare to the PS4 and xbox1.

[XStation4pio_Pro]

well.. to be fair, they can probably crank up the effects/aliasing/lighting etc too. all things pc gamers can do.

[Miraak82]

Or you can just say it enhances it

[sprinterboy]

Article is stating the captain obvious

[Gunstar75]

Is this not already happening with high end pc versions?

[3-4-5]

* Dev releases better version of game = gamers get mad at developer

* Dev releases same version with no upgrades = Neo/Scorpio users get mad at devs, Sony & Microsoft and wonder what is the point of the new hardware and more powerful system.

[Muzikguy]

I've been saying this since the rumors and don't need a gamingbolt article to tell me..... "Says developer"

[dcbronco]

You know how sometimes a small developer says something and people dismiss them wrongly for not knowing what they are talking about? Well this is where people need to be making this statement. PC gamers are probably laughing at console gamers when reading the comments. Know why? Because this is the way consoles have worked for years, decades.

Except instead of two versions to optimize there are thousands of possible combinations. Remember those bad ass Titan and Fury cards that released just last year? They've been replaced this year. And AMD may be launching an even newer GPU in October but definitely early 2017. I bet there hasn't been one developer making ridiculous comments.

New consoles simply means a new architecture per console. So two more, not thousands or hundreds or even tens. You know exactly what your target is. And these consoles will be based on architectures developers are already using in PC. So nothing weird and strange. Stop hitting the panic button. If anything the consoles will provide a stable platform for developers to learn the ends and outs of Polaris and Vega.

[DJ]

If anything, the Neo and Scorpio versions will just beef up resolutions, stabilize frame rates, increase draw distance and encourage doubling of enemy counts. Anything else would be dangerous from a QA standpoint.

[Dragonopolis]

On the Pc, somethings on in graphic engine scale very with well with newer improved hardware without much work in the software...For instance a big improvement in gaming visually is FPS in a game. Unless a developer purposely puts a limit on a game's FPS, most of my older games on my newest pc play at a much better FPS rate on newer hardware than when the game originally came out...... The developers didn't lift a finger to give me that improvement..... This could easily happen in the console world as well with hardware upgrades (and as we all probably know, improved FPS is a big deal in the game world and can literally sell an hardware upgrade ).

I run a modded Skyrim on my newest PC and it looks amazing... A lot of the mods were created by single dedicated programmer/indie developer and improved the game play or visual presentation by a noticeable amount... A good portion of these the mods were put out within a year and maintain on very low budgets..... Can you imagine what a paid professional developer could do who should have a deeper understanding of the game engine from inside out...if they just spent a few more months and put the effort into improving the experience for the people who have the hardware capability to run it the game would have a much longer lifespan....

It falls into backward compatibility.... On consoles in the past, a game was made and when you wanted to keep playing the game long after the new Gen console came out you had to hope the studio or developer would create a remastered version (which doesn't happen to often all though the PS4 has seen more remasters this gen than other consoles in the past...

Remasters are not ideal and expensive to the consumers and developers....

I believe moving to a more PC like experience, hardware wise, a smart move on Microsoft's part and leveraging Windows to give gamers better backward compatibility. The ability to not only continue to play my old games but improve the game play and/or visual quality of the game without having a developer lift a finger is very exciting indeed....

What we know of Sony's method with the Neo is that the game still requires support from the developer to receive any upgrade and that can cause time, resources and money that a developer may not want to spend (no matter how easy it would be to implement it.) I hope
Sony gives us gamers at least some control of improving the quality of our games especially with areas in gaming experience that are hardware dependent and don't require a developer to implement.....Can't wait to see how this plays out in the market next year...

Having new backward compatible Mid Life console upgrade is good regardless Why?because the side affect of all this means that backward compatibility is coming to Consoles and the possibility of playing our old favorite games in a much more improved version when we upgrade our hardware without the need to pay for an expensive remaster and good for developers because it gives the games they have created more value and a longer lifespan and more time to focus on new gaming experiences for their fans and not have to worry about recreating old games on new hardware....

All this is a win in my book, but I understand that some people don't like change and change can be hard and people who don't like change are often the most vocal about it and that's alright.... This could be a significant change in console history...

Let us hope that Microsoft and
Sony don't screw it up but a change I'm willing to see happen...

[abstractel]

Having worked in the industry for a long time, all I can tell you is that every single person at any game studio has their own opinions. Just because it comes from a game developer, doesn't make it fact.

I am a game developer, and I think that until the Neo/Scorpio install base becomes large enough, the PS4/XB1 will still be the target platform and enhanced for Neo/Scorpio rather than the other way around. Plus, you have to for game play design reasons develop for the lowest common denominator.

[trainsgofast]

Not if you have a engine that can scale with power like FMS6 or Halo Or unreal make your game for the top high-end PC specs and scale down to XB's 1.3TF. But how would that work for PS4? make two copies.

[Dragonopolis]

This may stop developers from pushing the specs on base systems but I don't believe it will hamper the game ....My family has multiple PCs in the home because of upgrades over the years .....the old PCs still play many of the current games at decent frames per second and with graphic settings not as high or impressive as an up to date PC but still playable even the online games...my boys still play online against others and do not feel hampered by the hardware (the boys still like the newer PC for better visuals though)....

I prefer this upcoming change as a major positve as it is a step in the right direction for backwards compatibility on consoles... My games will last longer and possibly even have improvements in visual quality/playability and I don't have to pay for an expensive remaster (which there is no guarantee will come out). So when the next gen consoles arrive next year I can still play my favorite games but have the options for better experiences as well....