Naughty Dog Responds to Uncharted Criticism from Deus Ex Creator

Chris Mawson writes: "Naughty Dog has responded to criticism from Deus Ex creator Warren Spector that its Uncharted series fails to make the most of the opportunities provided by the video game medium."

[nidhogg]

It's good that instead of arguing back, ND just applied the criticism as truth. I like these veteran developers arguing instead of petty arguments like what people like Fish does on twitter. Lol.

[S2Killinit]

ND keeping it classy.

[Army_of_Darkness]

If I was ND, I wouldn't have even wasted my time replying... Only time I would Is if their game is more successful.

[floetry101]

If you'd read the original comment, you'd know that it wasn't even something that constitutes criticism, simply an observation of Spector's desire to make a game where the PLAYER is enacting all story events. It's a very even handed comment.

[zidane1341]

Army of darkness: um he did, 20 years ago. It's called Deus Ex.

[freshslicepizza]

nd is among the top developers in the world so their input is going to be well documented. the struggle will always be about balancing games that cater to previous fans while trying new ideas and exploring ways to expand it's already huge audience.

a game like uncharted 4 brings the masses to the already popular ps4 platform. it's a large title that will help build even more recognition and this ensures you have a large fanbase who will follow you into a new ip. naughty dog are talented enough to come out with new games as proven by the last of us. they also have the leverage from sony that allows them to have creative freedom.

[Mr Pumblechook]

Warren Spector is basically criticising the Uncharted series for telling a specific character's story (Drake's) and not being as interactive or as personal as some games. But this is like criticising a dog for going woof! Uncharted delivers a very specific type of game experience. He doesn't understand that one single game can't be all things to all people.

However myself, as a fan of most genres, don't want everything to be an open world game. Sometimes I want to experience the very personal experience of a Skyrim, or have the expressive freedom of Minecraft. Or explore the tense world of The Last of Us or the action roller coaster ride of an Uncharted. There is room for all genres, no gamer is forced to play what they don't want. However Warren Spector seems unable to comprehend that the Uncharted franchise has bought millions of people joy. This does not mean the narrative led action platformer is a cheat, it means Naughty Dog are making best in genre games. This should not be coveted and demonised, this should be applauded.

[Dee_91]

@floetry101
Yea, but you know how media loves to instigate.

[morganfell]

When Spector makes a game like that he can talk. Until then he should take his has been rear end, tuck it between his legs, drink a big mug of Shut Up, and go hide. He talks about player engagement right after he praises Tell Tale.

He also can't keep a studio afloat so maybe he should consider ND's record there as well. He can go spend his time barking up smart phones as he has in the past.

[C-H-E-F]

low expression game? Deus-Ex was everything but expression. The main character has a "solid-snake" voice. Only warranted 1 play through out of me, and i'm a multiple play through kind of guy, I even replayed Alpha Protocol about 3-4 times for it's different endings. I love ND reply, I do, but this guy should be the last in the industry talking about ND games. UC and TLOU aren't decision based games, it's a linear story based game Not all games should be decision based. Just like not all games should be sports games, first person shooters, RTS, etc. etc. there are different games for different people. HMPH... Haters gonna hate.

[mzupeman]

I don't see the negative here at all. It's them saying there's different strokes for different folks, and the industry is in a place where there are games enough for everyone. It's like the movie industry... you can't please everyone. Some people prefer the fun of Indiana Jones, others prefer something like Apocalypse Now or Taxi Driver.

Uncharted is designed to fulfill a certain need. And based on how popular the franchise is, I don't think anyone considers that a negative.

[XanderZane]

Agreed. The same could be said for other games as well like Halo 5, Until Dawn, The Last of Us, Gears of War, Splatoon, etc.. All games that are fun to play, but aren't going to please everyone. All games that can be improved upon still. I think media press just like to spin everything as a negative just to get attention.

[jb227]

@floetry....sounds like you didn't read the original comment, because it was more like an entire keynote speech devoted to 'what games are & should be'. He broke down Uncharted as less interactive than TWD, which tells me he may not have played either. Sure TWD allows your characters to say different things, but up until the final beats in season 2, the stories always end up hitting the same major beats. I don't see how that game model is somehow more commendable than the experience that Uncharted offers.

@mixdup...true he does have the right to voice his opinion, but gamers also have the right to tell him he's full of it when he calls for the death of their favorite franchises in favor of a landscape of RPGs & fighting games....sounds like looking backward a lot more than forward to me.

"As for gamers, he added, they should “vote with their dollars” to ensure designers put their players’ experience ahead of showing off “how clever they are”.

That's a call for a boycott of UC4, plain & simple, can you respectfully wish for things to fail?

[3-4-5]

They don't mind the criticism because they know parts of it are true and they themselves are heading in a new direction after Uncharted 4.

They don't care they he said this because many internally over there believe this as well, and its' why they are done with Uncharted for now and moving onto something maybe even better.

[_-EDMIX-_]

While I agree on what Spector stated, its an objective statement.

“You have very limited ability to express yourself; it’s about how do you accomplish a predetermined path to get to the next plot point.”

This is 100% true with Uncharted, but that isn't a bad thing.

Uncharted isn't about making a blank character your own and making different paths. Its not an RPG, its not "YOUR STORY", its the Story of Nathan Drake.

Have deep ,deep respect for Warren Spector, but he is wrong on this suggestion as Uncharted isn't an RPG. I could care less about making a choice for Nathan Drake, he is his own person and your playing based on his concepts, not your own.

I've stated this many, many times regarding the whole multiplayer only arguments. Its not a one size fits all, people play games for many different reasons, we have many different genres for a reasons.

Every game doesn't need you to be able to change paths, make hard decisions etc, that is by developer choice and really genre choice.

I've played many games where you can and its amazing...I've played many games where you can't and its just as amazing.

They are added in RPGs for a reasons, they are removed from other titles for a reasons.

Let those who want to convey their concepts, do so how they feel it fits the genre and their IP.

I still like a game where I'm witnessing the actions and choices by someone else just as much as I like an RPG where I'm making those choices.

That is like saying EVERY FILM should have narration and be told from a first person point of view.

like film, like music....all games are not created equal.

[Thatguy-310]

Kuddos to ND for replying the right way. Videogames have come a long way and I'm glad of the direction they have taken. Variety will help gaming thrive and it's evident of how it's doing so when you look at the games that were criticize by warren.

[Germany7]

Looks like that some people really don't care for different genres on gaming and always criticize a game for not being a moba, mmorpg or online only, instead being a single-player experience and focusing on narrative.

[rainzor]

Doesn't most gamers make fun of moba and mmorpg games, calling them ugly dated low budget games.

[zidane1341]

Somebody got moba in my halo and I like it.

[TheColbertinator]

Would agree with Warren but he hasn't really gone forward with his original visions since Epic Mickey. Naughty Dog is doing what their fans like even since the time of Crash Bandicoot.

Either way both great developers. Uncharted 2,Deus Ex and The Last of Us are among my top favorites

[FoxyGotGame]

Except ...

I'd play a Naughty Dog game over anything Warren Spector has produced recently ..any day of the week.

Spector is not as relevant as he once was, though I do respect his contribution to the medium /

[Flash81]

Yes sir!!!

[zidane1341]

He has a valid point. Deus ex is still one of the most freedom driven game to this day. It was like 15 years ago. I'd replay Deus ex over replay uncharted any day.

[WildArmed]

This. Deus Ex was an amazing game, and has a lot of amazing replay value.

Not to say Uncharted games are a bad game, they are good in what they planned in achieving.

[Christopher]

Yeah, it was a good response. The only other response would be like: "Well, does he not understand every game can't do what he wants? That we're an industry filled with so many options and goals?"

[DivineAssault]

Some people like to criticize things that are far superior to their own work.. ND is unthreatened by these remarks thus making the others look silly... Great reply

[zidane1341]

Except spector is a huge huge name. He is a pioneer to one of the greatest games ever...15 years later it still trumps uncharted. Sorry but your ignorance is showing.

[DivineAssault]

I think yours is if any. Deus ex is really good but i think ND is better.. My personal opinion doesnt make me ignorant.. Ive probably been playing games while you were still in diapers..

[Imalwaysright]

@ Divine Assault

Nope, it's your ignorance that is showing.

Warren Spector's work is more relevant even today than anything that ND has ever created.

Deus Ex is pioneer in giving us more than one option to accomplish any giving objective. Deus Ex is FAR more influential than ANYTHING that ND has created.

Also let's not forget that Warren Spector also created System Shock which is, again, considered one of the most influential games ever made by influencing the design of many other sci-fi shooters, Half Life being one of them.

In short, ND have always been followers and Warren has always been a leader that has influenced and inspired many other devs to create their games. What better way to judge one's work than the influence and impact that that work has on others?

[Why o why]

Look guys, no point arguing with guys from the 'other side'. In 15 years time when people are talking about the legacy ND left there will still be detractors downplaying and marginalising the imprint they left. Don't argue with them...dont waste you breath on those that can't or won't see reason.

The impact of any dev regardless of their current relevance shouldn't be downplayed either. The achievements of both devs in question should be celebrated not used as leverage against the other ffs

[DivineAssault]

Ok, im not going to keep commenting on this.. If you like their games, thats fine with me.. Buy and support them as much as possible.. I encourage it.. If you think you can change my mind on how I view a game, go argue with someone else who gives a damn lol.. I couldnt care less what anyone's opinions are about their respective games. I think nintendo games blow them both away quite frankly.. Theres nothing anyone can do to change my mind about that either.. Check out meta if you want to argue.. Look at the professional critics and what they had to say.. These genres are way different from each other but since you feel so religious about it, go do some homework..

[P_Bomb]

The irony is Spector didn't make this headline for being proactive and trying to address this peeve within his own work, but rather for complaining that others aren't doing it for him. That's nice he made a game 15 years ago, but being a "pioneer" and being "relevant" are two VERY different things.

[mechlord]

Yeah..both of you are idiots if you cant understand that none of that matters. Do you really gonna e-dick fight over whos work is more seminal? Really? Here: a bone for you two: i could choose which way to reach the end of some levels in super mario and final fantasy 1. Does that mean every one else is follower? See? Idiots.

[Bladesfist]

I feel like the people here who dismiss Deus Ex completely are probably pretty young and did not play it back then. I'm too young to have played it and was introduced to it via the reboot but I do know how treasured the first game was. The second game not so much :P

[KingPin]

i still have the original cd of that game. lol
that game and starcraft were the best games of that decade by a mile. yes, there was Half life as well towards the end but i could never get into it, still cant, but that doesnt mean its a bad game by any means.

as for what WS said, he is right and wrong. right in a sense that there should be more to do in the game but wrong in the sense that its uncharted that has to change. games like MGSV, GTA, skyrim, watch_dogs etc are all open-world with plenty of oppornuities yet it remains highly repetitive. if any games had to offer the player more choices, those would be it.

uncharted knows what it is and makes the most of it. keeping the action and story well paced.

[mixelon]

No creative person or team worth anything is "threatened" by constructive criticism. Nobody came across looking silly at all.

It's not a competition.

[Imalwaysright]

@ Why o why

What I'm seeing in this thread is the "other side" responding to people from apparently "this side" that are downplaying what Warren has accomplished in this industry.

You don't see anyone from "the other side" starting a discussion with something along the lines "ND sucks and Warren is the best". If "this side" can't take it, it shouldn't dish it out in the 1st place.

[Germany7]

You are really desperate trying to downplay Naughty Dog, just check how many awards the Uncharted series and The Last of Us won recently, for many it's the best gaming developers nowadays, can't say the same about Warren recently.

[Why o why]

See my 2nd paragraph of my first comment......also notice those who defend old dev/downplay ND seem to have a preference for the xbox/pc....coincidence ...smdh... nobody's fooled and if you don't believe...just check comment traits/history

Again...using one dev against the other dev is stupid... appreciate the impact of both f f s

[Imalwaysright]

@ Ratchet

Downplay? It's the truth. ND has never made a game that had something new or original to influence other games. Their work isn't as influential as Warren's. Also I'm not talking about the quality of their games. TloU to me is a masterpiece but then again so are System Shock and Deus EX.

@ Why o Why.

My comment history? Read comment #24 on this thread and call me MS fanboy again.

http://n4g.com/news/1347979...

I told you before that I do not give a crap about your pieces of plastic and I also do not give a crap about "the other side" or "this side" or "whathever" side you want to call it.

[Why o why]

Wait. . .you don't think naughty dog haven't influenced others devs games. . . . Lol you speak as if you know this. People will remember what naughty dog brought to the industry regardless of your stance and you must care somewhat about these pieces of plastic as you're always here chatting about said plastic. Jokes

[Imalwaysright]

Why o Why

Then go ahead and tell me what is the new and original gameplay mechanic, game design idea or template that ND introduced in this industry. Tell me what is revolutionary about ND games. I'll be waiting.

Just remember that the devs that influenced ND in ALL their games aren't going anywhere.

"and you must care somewhat about these pieces of plastic as you're always here chatting about said plastic."

No, YOU care with the "other side", "this side" or "whathever" side you want to call it. I'm just defending myself from your hypocritical accusations. Someone saying "other side" showing whose side he is on accusing someone else from being from the "other side" because I dare to have my own opinions? Jokes... but hey at least you didn't mention my comment history this time around.

[Why o why]

You don't think the tomb raider reboot wasn't somehow influenced by uncharted. . . If even a little. . The fallacy many detractors use is that something has to be original to be inspirational. .its a weak argument as not everyone who's influenced by something has access to, knowledge of or liked everything about the original. . It's like this in all media, be it film or music. Michael Jackson had his influences but those who were influenced by him may have been influenced by Jackson's influences. Martin Scorsese influenced people with The Departed but not many know that film was just a well made remake of Infernal Affairs. See how it works.

I highlighted a trend. . You ignored it. I implied the majority of people downplaying naughty dogs achievements were from 'the other side or pc' camp. Look around in this thread then tell me I'm talking crap. . . I've said neither side should use the relevance of one vs the other. . . .you ignore that . What more can I say. You're still going on like naughty dog haven't left a mark on others yet their titles got awarded the highest accolades by their peers. Leave it

www.examiner.com/article/tomb -raider-reboot-influenced-by-u n charted

Go argue with him champ

[Imalwaysright]

Nope, TR took nothing from Uncharted. Crystal Dynamics was influenced by Shinji Mikami, Chris Esaki, Hideo Kojima, Toby Gard and many other devs. ND was influenced by these same devs to make Uncharted. The legacy that these devs left in this industry isn't going anywhere.

Your link doesn't work so maybe you could tell me in your own words what did TR take from Uncharted and while you're at it you could also tell me which other games were influenced by the games with all the awards in the world. If the mark that ND left in this industry is so relevant, given all those awards, it should be easy for you to tell me what games were influenced by ND work.

Also, you were clearly talking about me. To you, I'm one of "the other side" so as far as I'm concerned, it is my opinion that you were indeed talking crap. My side is the side that can and will say positive and negative things about any multi billion $ company that is involved in this industry. My side doesn't take sides.

[Why o why]

http://www.examiner.com/art...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.gamespot.com/art...

http://gamingbolt.com/next-...

Read their own words bro. . and these are just uncharted articles not naughty dog on the whole

Dev>me/you. The link kept creating spaces for some stupid reason and yes you are one of the detractors who find it hard to give credit where it's due even though developers themselves acknowledge what nd have achieved so again, you don't have to be original to influence. . The end

[Imalwaysright]

Crystal Dynamics?

The head of the studio said this

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

Splinter cell takedowns? grabbing enemies from cover? Uncharted 2?

Batman arkham asylum had this gameplay mechanic and was released before Uncharted 2. Maybe the Splinter cell dev didn't know about this but I (me < dev) know. Wouldn't be surprised if other games had this gameplay mechanic before Batman.

The Order? The game that wanted to be a movie inspired by ND because they believe that ND set a benchmark in cinematic games? Ok one game influenced by ND.

I think that is great for the videogame medium that a movie was inspired by ND sequence but a movie is not a game. Still I take my hat for ND for that even if I'm not much of a movie guy myself.

So one game (a crappy one at that) influenced by a franchise with so many awards just shows how influential Uncharted truly is in this industry: not much.

Edit:

I will say this however: The level of empathy that I had with TloU characters was something that I only experienced 10 years ago with MGS3. This medium needs more characters like Ellie, Joel and company. I hope that other devs take a good look at TloU and I hope that they get inspired by it.

[ZombieGamerMan]

I feel Warren Specter's comment is misguided and comes off as imposing his standard unto others, I've played a wide selection of games and the simple fact a game like The Last of Us will have the main character commit horrendous acts without player input adds to the story.

While choice based games have their place in the industry it must not be forgotten than at times the best stories are those we have no say in what the character will say or do in a given situation as it explore places many of us might not have willingly gone to and gives us richer characters for it.

Not only that but creating a narrative about choices is a very hard one as you must be ready to write up a constantly branching script, not only that but you must also give players a very gray choice where the right answer is never clear and always vague leaving it to simply how would you the player react to this situation.

For example in Until Dawn during one sequence a character suggested we radio for help by going to a radio tower, a choice I felt was the right call this would later cause that this character would waste a flare gun and then be killed. However other games including even the Deus Ex games the choices are often clear and to very make consequences.

[kenwonobi]

I'm not one to criticize Warren. He is obviously more talented and experienced than me. I view all this as just developers pushing each other to their best limits. Basically bouncing ideas off of one another.

[hirobrotagonist]

Sometimes I want a straightforward fiction adventure novel over a choose your own adventure. Videogames do not have an inherent responsibility to be open ended, sometimes an on rails and story driven experience is a good one and is in its own genre. These kinds of games can't really be compared on that level. It's completely subjective based one what someone wants out of a game. I can't stand people that tell other people what to enjoy, or how much they should enjoy it. That doesn't mean that everyone has good taste...however..

[Sidewinder-]

Hardly a criticism, more of an observation.

Spector prides himself on games that provide freedom of choice.

Personally, he wants to see more of those type of games.

Uncharted didn't do this, but, it didn't set out to do this. It's great at what it does.

[Why o why]

100

[mixelon]

There's no reason other than money/time that games like NDs couldn't have at least subtlety branching narratives based on choices made.

The bombast and AAA everything being superpolished makes it resource intensive to pull off but it could totally be done, and that would be really cool.

[SpinalRemains138]

This criticism makes no sense to me.

When you can play through a game which is on rails, and still have the most kickass adventure, the developer is doing something special.

A games amazingness isn't predicated on its openness or the choices available. There are a whole myriad of things which make a game a memorable experience.

[oIITSBIIo]

Deus Ex > UC anytime.

[Germany7]

Reading your comments ( i really regret doing that), you have never played Uncharted and even don't have a PlayStation.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Why would anyone choose one game over another when he can enjoy both? Oh wait, Uncharted is an exclusive. Ok nevermind...

[MadLad]

Your comment can easily be watered down to Uncharted > Deus Ex/ my opinion over your opinion.
Same as his.

His comment is idiotic, and does nothing to push proper commentary on the subject.
You're both biased and need a bit of perspective and respect for differing views.

WS'comment wasn't even direct criticism. It was commentary on the industry and a talking point, if anything.
Get a grip.

[Relientk77]

Glad Naughty Dog said something

[Game-o-holic]

Not really a fan of Warren Spector's work so the comment doesn't go very far. And if you look at what he has done in the last 10 years it makes sense that this comment came from him. It always comes from sour developers that hold dear to new ideas in games but don't profit as much as the game(s) they are complaining about. Two words....Mickey Mouse.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Who cares what that Deus Ex guy says... Nor many platformers and games of the past offered much freedom either. Most game have been linear experiences. Now there are more open world games but most of them are very tiring and boring. Yeah so much freedom in that big desert little interactions and bunch of repetitive busy work in MGSV. Yeah so much freedom and repetition in Shadow of Mordor and Mad max. Witcher 3 is pretty much the best open world game to date and yet that game can become pretty boring at times.

With Uncharted, there's no a single boring time. You are engaged with the action and story from start to finish. It's fun, which is the most important factor in games. Doesn't matter whether it has choices or is open world.

Now it is good we have devs that makes different things. This is what the industry needs. Not all games should be the same.

Naughty Dog is good at what they do and that guy is good at what he does. Simple!

[windblowsagain]

Never Enjoyed the Deus Ex games.

As for Uncharted.

There is plenty of game play. It's also a story driven narrative.

You could attack many sp games that way.

Same thing with Gears etc/

[IceKoldKilla]

Deux Ex creator's comment:

“It’s not that games like this are bad, but they limit your ability to interact with the game world, so the story can unfold the way the storyteller wants it to unfold.”

“You have very limited ability to express yourself; it’s about how do you accomplish a predetermined path to get to the next plot point.”

“It’s a great story – a better story than I’ll ever tell in a game – but it’s not a player story; it’s not your story.”

I don't get why he said that. There's many genres and many games out there. I feel Uncharted and The Last of Us have what he said but the story they tell are great, especially TLoU. It's like a movie. The feeling TLoU gave me, Deus Ex hasn't. And Deus Ex has gameplay that no ND game has ever had. I'd hate to see games all be like Deus Ex or like how the creator wants them to be. ND replied right.

[s45gr32]

You mis-interpret what Warren Specter is saying that today's gaming while more cinematic than previous games have lost gameplay mechanics in favor of story. That games are using cutscenes/cgi scenes to tell a story but the narrative of the game is not told through gameplay. Let's be honest and ask yourself have gameplay mechanics improved or moved forward since the PS2 . The answer is a resounding NO

[Malice-Flare]

Warren has gone from snobbish to senile...

[Featuring_Dante]

Good, someone finally put ND in their place.

[BiggerBoss]

How on Earth did he "put ND in their place"?

I think it's past your bedtime.

[Featuring_Dante]

Your reaction doe!

[Aaroncls7]

That was a valid point from Spector, and even ND recognizes it. There is nothing wrong with that comment or the reply.

Are you people so deep into your own bullshit that you cannot even take a valid observation from a proven veteran and professor?

Does every criticism of your favorite titles has to met with immature and biased hostility?

Most of the negative comments here do not reflect unyielding loyalty; what they are displaying is complete and utter ignorance.

[SynestheticRoar]

WOW. She a class act. Because I would have ask what game did you make, and did it win even half of the awards this game did. Ah no. Then STFU, punch yourself in the face. Kick yourself in your own a$$. Now GTFO.

[s45gr32]

What both Naughty Dog and Warren Specter are saying is there's a lot of room left for gaming to improve. Last gen and this gen have improved the narrative in gaming. Now is time to mix narrative with gameplay. Meaning to tell an engaging narrative unfolding via gameplay not via cutscene. In a lot of ways, while I appreciate the current cinematic approach to gaming. We gamers have lost gameplay mechanics in favor of a good story. Gameplay mechanics have not improved or moved forward since the PS2 days. Uncharted is the exception (able to shoot from any ledge, rock, ladder, etc.; go from melee to gunplay with no delay/lag; finally the main character can extend his arms to grab the ledge while jumping) not the rule