Dead Or Alive 5: Itagaki Questions Why Lisa Has Been Whitewashed

Itagaki insists the change is not due to a new lighting engine, as some fans have posited.

[ps4gamer1983]

How is lighting engine a legit excuse? Her hair and clothes in the white-washed model are dark; so why are they incapable of getting her skin brown? If the lighting changed it, then adjust the textures color to work with the lighting.

[Bigpappy]

Yup. It is a downgrade of her color. Definitely not a Black Chick anymore.

How does Zack look now?

[plsburydoughboy]

He's a little whiter too.

Also note that the pic Itagaki used isn't from Last Round. I think it might be from the original 2012 release. Clearly, Itagaki has had this on his mind for a while.

[Lightning Mr Bubbles]

This is not a big deal, people can look darker or lighter depending on a lot things, the lighting around you,(not video game engine) I mean the lighting in real life. The clothes you wear can also make a difference. Sometimes people just have their days when their skin is darker, lighter, redder. It happens.

Not sure if she was ever really black or just someone with a tan but looking at both pictures I can see it possible that in real life that could be the same person in a different lighting situation or at a different time in their life when they haven't been tanning as much.

[Mr Pumblechook]

@Bigpappy. I don't want to come across as self-righteous but saying that one skin colour over another is a 'downgrade' is offensive.

[nosferatuzodd]

Lightning thats the syupodedt thing I've ever heard perdon.who is black are not going to look white under no light under the son and clothing makes ppl look white lol thats a new one never heatd that one before im going to put a jordan shirt on and see if I look like him

[KryptoniteTail]

"Downgrade?" Why not an upgrade?

It's actually neither, objectively but you sure are racist.

[Army_of_Darkness]

Whatever. I love my white chicks ;-)

[Lord_Sloth]

Here is an actual image of her from Last Round. She isn't white at all. That image is false, cherry picked to stir controversy.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/x25l_...

[hay]

Itagaki has a hard time being relevant I see. He didn't play DOA5. Lisa's skin tends to be lighter on certain stages.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/...

http://fc07.deviantart.net/...

Good job Mr Butthurt. I can see why DoA is reaching it's heights without him onboard.

[bOObies]

You be the judge.

[KiwiViper85]

It might just be her "alternate skin"

[dcj0524]

Wait none of this makes any sense. I have dead or alive and lisa looks orangey brown as usual

[bOObies]

This is getting way out of hand now. Itagaki has been mentioning DOA a lot lately and every time he does it's about something negative or a criticism. It's starting to come off desperate.

Now I always start this off with saying how much I respect the man for creating my most loved franchise, but he's starting to become a dissenter to Dead Or Alive and that means he's nothing but a negative to it these days. I am truly sorry Itagaki that you lost the right to keep making DOA, but constantly taking jabs and pointing out flaws is all too easy, just ask any internet troll exactly how simple that is.

This is coming from a fan of 16 years and who has bought EVERY DOA since, including PSP and Vita and yes, even Dimensions. I happen to really like where the series is currently, I feel it's probably more popular now than it has ever been, especially in the tournament scene. I happen to like the DLC outfits, they are all cosmetic they add nothing but visual flair and they do not segregate player base. They also offer a good revenue for Team Ninja to continue making games. So for the people who want to buy, why not offer them a choice.

I'm sorry, but Itagaki, please..please it's time to bow out admirably and offer advice and insight privately and respectfully straight to TN, and not through publications to stir up controversy. It comes across as cheap. Sorry for the long post but I take my DOA very serious ^_^

[Bigpappy]

I am downloading the trail now on X1 to see for myself what the hoopla is all about. But if they are removing the black race from the game, that would be a serious matter that would require a really good explanation. Lighting does not pass the smell test, that's for sure.

P.S. Those images you put up there are gorgeous. If those are recent, then I am with you. But I have the free trial on download. If there is no down grade, then I might go ahead and buy the game.

[DragonKnight]

"that would be a serious matter that would require a really good explanation."

Why?

[SilentNegotiator]

@Dragon

Because making a white character black is progressive and making a black character white is racist. lol

[ameliabaz]

@SilentNegotiator:

I kinda see where those complaints come from though. There aren't a whole lot of black heroes in media (I remember seeing a study that said only around 7% of movie characters last year were black. I was really surprised by that because I thought it would be more) so changing one white character to black isn't going to be as noticeable as changing one black character to white. I don't wanna sound like the people who are always crying "OMG REPRESENTATION!!!" but it sucks that whitewashing is such a common thing even in 2015 and that there are studios who still think characters will be more appealing and sympathetic if they are changed to white (remember the controversy when that little black girl was cast in The Hunger Games and people sent her hate-mail and death threats because they pictured her character as white...even though she was black in the books). So it would be pretty shitty if the devs HAVE deliberately changed one of the few black female game characters to white.

[SilentNegotiator]

"I remember seeing a study that said only around 7% of movie characters last year were black"

When you consider that Hollywood is one of the biggest movie producers on the planet and is in a country that is 12% black and the fact that most European and Asian countries have lower percentages than that (and Africa/S.America not being producers of a lot of big international hits), how is 7% a bad figure? That seems right in line with what should be expected in the overall movie industry, considering where the average should lie among the big movie producers.

[BallsEye]

The funny thing is, I bet it wouldn't even make the news if they'd make all characters black instead. You black brothers and sisters need to chill out because it got to the point where directors, game devs etc are forcing a black person in their piece just so they won't be called racist. I never complained that snoop dogg doesn't hang out with whites in his music videos.

[DragonKnight]

@ameliabaz: Tell me, what do you think of The Human Torch being, what would the term be, black faced?

[rainslacker]

I've played DOA for many years, and never knew she was supposed to be black(mixed race maybe). I don't follow the whole martial arts stuff that I guess made it apparent according to the commenter above. I just thought she was very tan, and didn't notice much difference in DOA5.

What I notice though is the pictures proving she's been "made white", is that they are very bright with stadium type lighting or natural sunlight. The ones where she looks darker she's in interior dark lighting or softer blue lights. I challenge anyone to go into similar lighting with their own skin and notice the tone difference between the different lighting. Inside, with softer lights, you will look darker.

I've personally noticed this effect on all the characters in DOA5 regularly, and it's an effect that happens due to better lighting and shading models which more accurately render skin tones by calculating how light is actually reflected off of different surfaces.

[hazelamy]

@dragonknight

you have to ask that question?

after those rants of yours about changing established characters.
especially the most recent.

i guess, according to you, white males are sacred, anything else? well they don't matter.
gotta protect those straight white males from the evils of diversity.

[Spotie]

Don't start that crap again, amy. There's no straight white male-ness going on here, and you generalize the Gamergate movement as that when I, I straight black male, am completely behind it.

While I agree that- if this is actually happening- whitewashing Lisa IS a problem, it's not the same argument as the sexism/feminism debate. There are fewer black characters than there are female, and though we'd definitely like to see more people with our skin color in games- and not just as gangsters or athletes- we don't typically get up in arms about it. Cuz, you know, we're more concerned with real people getting shot and nobody facing consequences for it.

I suppose I COULD be upset at the lack of black characters in various media, but then, it's all fictional; as a writer, myself, I understand that these people can put in whatever characters they want, in whatever colors, races, and genders they want. In my ~15 years of penning stories, I have one (admittedly poorly written) gay character; does that make me anti-gay? Is it hypocritical, then, that I wholeheartedly support gay marriage?

In the end, it'd be down to the developers to change this if they wanted to. I wouldn't agree with it, especially if there's no legitimate reason for it, but it's not even like they're white people. They're Japanese.

Anyway, keep things straight. And don't call people out as being hypocrites or anything else when you, yourself, are fairly guilty in the very same arenas.

[DragonKnight]

Think carefully the next time you make a post. Bigpappy wasn't talking about an iconic character, Bigpappy was talking about race. He specifically said "if they are removing race" and that it's a "serious matter requiring a good explanation." That's a FAR cry from changing Link.

Take your racism elsewhere and learn to actually think about something before you go off half-cocked.

[hazelamy]

my racism?

you can't see why removing or whitewashing all the established black characters from the game is an issue, but your precious freaking link?
now that would be a frakking tragedy if they messed with him right?

you're a joke.

and who mentioned gamergate?

all i was talking about was this person who gets up in arms at the thought of anybody changing his little white boy link, but doesn't give a shite when the few black characters from a long standing game are possibly being turned white.

and they're not putting in the characters they want,they're changing established characters.

but because it's only their skin colour, this dragonknight doesn't care, not when his precious link could become a woman.

and what does the fact they're japanese have to do with it?

i assume you're talking about the devs, and not the characters, who are american as far as i recall.

because they're japanese they're given a pass when they change the characters to appease bigotries in their country?

for the record when i do actually criticise gg, it's nearly always for the sexism and homophobia, so what colour your skin is is not something i give a shit about.

anybody can be a sexist homophobe whether they're black, white or asian.

oh and the old, "there are worse things to worry about" argument.

aren't there worse things to worry about than what somebody says on an internet forum?
or what people say about gaming?

there are gangs kidnapping girls to use as sex slaves, there's people dying from ebola, there's children dying from being forced to drink dirty water in parts of africa.
and yes, innocent people getting shot by cops who get away with it.

you think these little games really matter against that?

why aren't you doing something about those things instead of being on here complaining about people criticising games?

[DragonKnight]

Yes. Your racism. The term "whitewashing" is racist, as is saying this...

"i guess, according to you, white males are sacred, anything else? well they don't matter.
gotta protect those straight white males from the evils of diversity."

You're a racist. Easily proven.

Now then, let's get to your lame argument. Link is an iconic character with a long and established history and cannon surrounding him. Why is changing some character who doesn't compare a "serious issue" that "requires a good explanation?" Go on, I'll wait for anything other than a racial victim argument.

[TheColbertinator]

I miss black Lisa

[Segata]

Hard to see your creations ruined in someone elses hands but that's what happens when you leave a company. No not blaming him just saying. Kamiya hated what they did with DMC. Inafune and Mega Man and many more and they made their own series to replace what the company they left destroyed. After Devils Third he should create a new fighting series.

[deadpoolio316]

Mega Man had NOTHING to do with Inafune leaving Capcom....He has said it several times, he left because he wanted to do his own thing and focus on smaller scale games...Same thing with Kamiya had NOTHING to do with Devil May Cry HE was also on the team that developed DMC4, the game that showed the series needed to be rebooted....Its not uncommon for people to leave a major company to start their own studios and work on their own ideas...

[Krew_92]

I'm pretty sure he didn't say those games were the reasons why any of them left. He stated they all hated the direction the games went to after they had left for whatever reason. Thus creating spiritual successors.

[Segata]

Krew_92 got it. I did not say that's why they left I said they hated the direction their series were taken after they left. So they created spiritual successors.

[Bhuahahaha]

dont care if they tone down her color
as long as she has the same size hehehheheheh

[masso9112]

she never looked black, she looks like a tanned white girl, and now she just lost her tan

[theFAYEsorceress]

asia has always favored fair skin. it's a symbol of status. mebe the decision isn't racist and the person(s) responsible for the changes just prefer lighter skin because of cultural preferences. i seriously doubt they changed it with malicious intent.

[VINNIEPAZ]

Shes an ESTABLISHED girl in the game. If the new producer wanted an all white game, then REMOVE her. When you change who she is, then it was clearly a "problem" the new producer felt he needed to change.....Of course people are gonna get upset

[pasta_spice]

While it's true that light skin was considered a status symbol in the past, there is a fair amount of maliciousness behind the 'light skin as a status symbol' thing in Asian countries that still exists today.

India's caste system is one of the worst examples (a dark-skinned person trying to marry 'above their caste' can be murdered in some places), dangerous skin bleaching products sell like hot-cakes in east and south-east Asian countries because risking facial burns is still more desirable than being dark, the Chinese government's treatment of its dark-skinned minorities is still a problem today (don't expect to see a non-Han Chinese president any time soon), Korean celebrities openly mock those with darker skin on tv and it's rare to see dark-skinned celebrities (and usually they are the butt of jokes), and even Japan treats its dark-skinned cousins in Okinawa like second class citizens. In fact many mainlanders don't even consider Okinawans to be 'true Japanese' due to their darker skin even though Okinawa is very much a part of Japan, and don't get me started on the government's poor treatment of Okinawans as a whole (e.g. there's a reason the US military base was built in Okinawa and not on the mainland, despite Okinawa's very vocal protest to it).

It's more than just a harmless cultural preference. There is still a lot of prejudice, ill treatment, and class problems in Asian countries towards those with darker skin.

[SaveFerris]

I'm no sociologist, but what you describe above is human nature, right?

[theFAYEsorceress]

while some okinawans have dark skin, that is not the major reason they are looked down upon. it is because they were influenced by many different cultures over its history and the mainland doesn't view them as being "pure" japanese. and while having dark skin might have been just another reason to dislike okinawa, it is not the determining factor.

and in general, it IS a harmless cultural preference now. there are no race riots, no KKK, no nationalist parties, and no race based organizations in asia.

in the 8 years i lived in korea, and 5 in japan, i never once thought it was nearly as bad as how things are here in north america. there's hatred towards certain things in every culture, but having dark skin in asia isn't at hate-crime levels and isn't a major issue.

you ARE correct at it being a class thing, but i already said that was the case in the first place. like i said though, it's not at major concern and it's not meant to be racist, just a cultural preference.

[VINNIEPAZ]

Just last week my girl was upset that the white girls always get the outfits and Lisa is only included once in a while.

[JohnathanACE]

Honestly his post is bait for attention. The picture of her from DOA 5 Itagaki posted just has bad lighting. She's just as black as she was in other games. Also a "crime against earth" and "discrimination by color"? Is't he being a bit over dramatic?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie....

[thejigisup]

She's definitely not black, hatian, domincan, african, belizian .... Whatever black means i guess. The proof you say? Look at the hair, lips, nose.... No black lady naturally has hair that thin and straight.

[WeAreLegion]

They're all super generic character models, anyway.

[plsburydoughboy]

FWIW, Lisa's ethnicity is Latina.

[KryptoniteTail]

Funny, nobody cared when Nick Fury was charcoaled (or is it only okay to say "white washed?") or when Spider-Man was muddied. This racism toward whites is really offensive, and I am not even sure she was intended to be black. She looked more like she was Hispanic or maybe even just dark tanned white. If she was Hispanic then there could be many reasons why she is not as dark. If she was white, it's easily dismissed.

Either way, people do not need to flip a lid over this. I mean, the Ghostbusters was completely swapped out for females. A minor change in skin tone toward a lighter side and the SJWs grab their pitchforks?

Come on, seriously...

[mixelon]

No SJWs grabbed pitchforks. Itagaki is about as far from a "SJW" as you can get, lol. And LOADS of people complained at all of the things you mentioned.

"Muddied"? Miles is a different character. Get back to us when PP is played by a black actor, when a load of people will complain, like they did at the casting rumours.

The ghostbusters are a different set of ghostbusters.. They aren't the original characters, so it makes no difference they're girls. Now, as soon as winston is made white or Venkman becomes a woman, then things are questionable. We're talking about changes to established characters, not extra characters - and if they really are doing that it kinda sucks.

There are loads of character variations within the different comic universes that switch characteristics. Is Heimdall being black in Thor a problem? Fury was always black in the Ultimate universe - a different character to the other Fury.

Not seeing racism against white people.

[Perkel]

maybe she was tanned ? Because even in older games she didn't really look like black

[Vanfernal]

Wouldn't be the first time this happened. Pic related.

https://gamebabble.files.wo...

[-Lawless-]

I'm confused, I've played all iterations of DOA5...Lisa seemed of darker skin to me, but this was of course due to comparison of the other girls. I never considered it much to complain about, but let's not pretend it's not something that gets done.

Use Vanessa Lewis from VF as an example. When she was first put in, she was obviously a woman of color and then down the line she did get whitewashed. I guess I only brought her up because I wanted her to be added in DOA5 like others from the VF cast. Vanessa vs Mila in the Gym Arena would be awesome.

Itagaki has a point I guess. As he often does, but I can tell you that picture they use in the headline of this article is completely false. I know damn well Lisa isn't that white in DOA5.

[ThunderPulse]

White girls are better anyway.

[Articuno76]

I'm not really sure what they're is to argue about here. Lighter skin tones are considered more attractive (by many, including apparently, the developers), and aesthetic is a huge part of DOA from the girls to the cinematic spectacle angle they introduced for 5.

They didn't change her race as I understand it, but her skin tone to strike a balance between what they felt was realistic/aesthetically pleasing. It's similar to how they altered Hitomi's appearance over the years to make her it clearer that she's half.

[TuxedoMoon]

I been a fan of Itagaki's work for a while and recently his DOA5 rants are becoming increasingly annoying. It's not his game anymore. It's the sad truth. Now that he has his own company, he should take this chance and make NEW GAMES! Or at least make games that are like your original works. For example, Inafune has Gunvolt and Mighty no.9 under his belt. It may not be titled megaman, but it's familiar enough for fans to enjoy and fill in that megaman gap left behind by crapcom.

Instead of whining, Itagaki should just use his resources to make his own DOA type game. He has the freedom to make it however he likes, so why doesn't he? Is he just this bitter about getting kicked from Tecmo (for sexual harassment ironically enough)?

I'd love to see a DOA type game exclusive to the Wiiu or something. Maybe start off small and have Zero
Samus as a guest character? Get your crap together, stop being bitter, and make your own new DOA the way you want it.

[rainslacker]

He does seem to talk about this game more than the actual devs of DOA5 did.

I can understand being annoyed that someone else is ruining his vision, but it's not like his vision was some grand masterpiece of design. It was always a fan service wrapper over a solid, yet not exceptional, fighting game. Oddly enough, I find DOA5 to be the best installment in terms of game play and seems to perfect everything I've liked about the game play over the years, but it is the most ridiculous in the fan service...which is saying a lot of this series.

Otherwise, it's highly unprofessional to speak this way of other developers works, even if it was originally his. It would be like Bungie criticizing 343 studios over every thing they do with the Halo series, or Insomniac criticizing Sony over whatever they may do with Ratchet & Clank.

Currently I guess he's working Devil's Third which I guess is his own take/version of Ninja Gaiden.

[Aries83]

Wow, really? Why is there a debate? If the man who created her himself says she is lighter, she is lighter. Of anyone he should know. Seriously...

[Shineon]

Some of yall need an history lesson about Brazil and Capoeira!!!

[Angerfist]

White Pride :D
Very weird but a welcome move for me. O cant stand this Multicultural nonsense anymore.

[ironfist92]

Half naked girls in bikinis fighting, and no one bats an eye.

Change the skin colour of a character, and suddenly everyone goes crazy.

[rainslacker]

No, just itagaki. This would have been mentioned long ago, and become "controversial" for hits if anyone had actually noticed it.

The lighting engine is much better than since the release of DOA4, so it just shows skin tone more naturally in comparison to the light. It's apparent in other pictures of her. Most of the characters look lighter than before TBH. But that lightness also looks more natural than the porcelain doll look they all had in prior games. I think Hitomi and Lei Fang actually look darker than before.

[DrRobotnik]

I think itagaki is trolling the masses. I guess kojima will follow suit soon enough.

[Arty84]

just turn her to Hispanic in the bio description so nobody complains