DX12 Should Remedy The Resolution Issue On The Xbox One, eSRAM To Receive New API

Brad Wardell reveals that Microsoft are doing away with the old eSRAM API.

[Fro_xoxo]

Well.. I think it's better to be quiet on the resolution-gate thing, as microsoft has been.

Let dx12 do the talking.

results will/can put the whole debate thing to rest.

[MasterCornholio]

I agree with you. Microsoft should just let the update speak for itself.

[LexHazard79]

Lol...Microsoft isnt doing the talking its Wardell.

[XBLSkull]

Xbox One gets better and better all the time. Love the monthly updates (2 updates this next month!) and it is great to see improvements to the development side. esRAM is beast already, cant wait to see what it can do with a new API behind it.

[fr0sty]

"That has resulted in what’s called Resolution Gate"

Trying to blame it all on the API is a bad idea for them, it will backfire. You can improve efficiency and reduce the strain of a bottleneck with a more efficient API, but in the end 32mb is 32mb. A far cry from what you'd be able to do with up to 8GB of similarly high bandwith memory. So, the resolution/framerate differences will always be there.

Just remember, a few months ago we were supposed to have magic servers raining infinite power down on every Xbox One.

[turdburgler1080]

@frosty

So MS does not understand how their console works or how to improve it? Countless devs have lamented about how the esram has been a thorn in their side when it comes to resolution. I'd me much more likely to believe the people who built the console and understand its inner workings then another armchair engineer. While Wardell hasn't used the new API he is in close association with the directx team who are the authority on it.

[user5575708]

ill lol hard when the resolution doesnt change

[Bathyj]

"I'd me much more likely to believe the people who built the console and understand its inner workings then another armchair engineer. "

Admirable. A courtesy I hope you extend to other platform holders as well.

[GameNameFame]

MS has already shot this down...Multiple times.

LOL. this is kinda sad.

@Turdburgler

What close associating? LOL.

Also, if you want to listen to MS, then you should listen to them telling you it won't be dramatic.

MS engineers all said the improvements figures are for PC.

Then listen to them. All it sounds like is you have desperate hearing where you only listen to what desperation tells you.

[LordMaim]

"On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12." - Phil Spencer

[dan_dufferin98]

@gamenamefame YOU AGAIN!!?!!! YOU are the one that's sad!! Here you are again in ANOTHER XBOX article!!! WHY?!?!!? EVERY. SINGLE. ARTICLE. JUST GTFO!! Unbelievable!! LOL

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

Lol @ Frosty, you have no idea how eSRAM works man, it's a "static" memory not a "Read/Write" memory like any other double data rate memory types so it will always have a tremendous advantage vs DRAM. Never has to to rewrite itself as it's always static, uses 1/100 of power (means less heat, higher bandwidth clock), about 1/10 of the latency, never has to refresh cycles and data buses are directly accessible, SDRAM­s access speed is clock dependent while SRAM accesses directly meaning it will ALWAYS outperform PS4's GDDR5 in speed since the GPU clock speed is so low and peaks at 170ish gb/sec. SRAM has the ability to grow while DRAM is limited by hardware...

[Bigpappy]

Actually the opposite is the problem. M$ is saying absolutely nothing about Xbox One in relation to DX12.

I actually like hearing the findings of Brad. I want to know what DX12 will do technically with for X1. I don't want them to guess at gains and such. But having more parallel draws from the cores and reworking the API to better use ESRAM is good to know.

[fr0sty]

@ turd & cutz

all the latency gains, bandwidth, and optimization in the world will not erase the fact that it is only 32mb. Period. The rest of the ram crawls by like a turtle.

There's a reason why you keep hearing "just a little while longer!!! just wait! we'll show you! We can optimize it to make it all better! Clouds will help! There's secret sauce! Coprocessors that we never told you about!" and never seeing the results materialize. There's a reason why "resolutiongate" even exists today, a year and a half later with no end in sight.

Not only are the APIs improving (for both consoles, mind you.), but the games are also getting more complex. So, these changes are just keeping pace with the advancements in visuals, AI, etc., not closing any gaps.

[GenuineGamer]

@Fr0sty

The fact that you keep saying "ONLY 32MB" clearly shows you have no clue regarding esram and how it works.

With the new esram api and dx12 tiled resources esram can hold 6gbs of texture data.

Only 32mb you say? tell me more!

[awi5951]

@fr0sty

A new api can help big time mantle gives some ATI mantle supported games a 30 fps boost.

[Pogmathoin]

Again, Namegamehead has said the same thing for maybe the millionth time on N4G. You should be rewarded for that, also using the same link over and over again, despite what people, unlike you, who use the actual API..... you end your waffle with a bit about desperation, yet your doing this on every single DX12 article.... defines desperate......

[BG11579]

That would be very wise.
Well said added.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Better performance is always a welcome.

MS not gonna let this whole power, resolution thing eat them from the inside out. They're doing something about it, constantly.

Looks like 2 years ago when Albert Panello was right there's more to MS hardware than we know.

Interesting nonetheless, wanna see what those results will look like.

[_-EDMIX-_]

They are, but they clearly know they can't. Its not feasible to have better resolution as resolution is game dependent and developer dependent.

The reason why you see PC's last gen playing console games better is they where made for console in mind and ported to PC....thus made on weaker, played on PC much more powerful...thus can be played at a "higher" resolution and frame.

PS4 is stronger....they are making games with XONE in mind....thus ported to PS4...giving PS4 the edge.

Meaning..once they are done with the XONE version using 2.3TFLOPS of power, they now have 3.68TFLOPS or 1.38TFLOPs more performance to make it run better.

It actually has more to do with PS4 having more, then XONE having less.

Again...resolution is game and developer dependent, they choose that setting to max out XONE, on PS4 they are given MORE power to make it run better then what it was on XONE...thus it can be at a higher frame/res etc.

If XONE was JUST like PS4, you would actually likely see...neither do 1080p, as they are only doing 1080p on PS4, because the finished product on XONE, allows for improvements on PS4.

But...if both have the same GPU, it actually means most developers will max out and choose graphical detail over resolution and frame.

Consider...even PS4's exclusives don't just do 1080p 60fps, the focus on using more detail and power.

Only when a title is getting ported from LESSOR do they do 1080p 60fps etc.

You can't fix whats wrong with XONE's gpu, its factually lessor and it will remain that way. Software can't make a 1.2TFLOP GPU, a 1.86TFLOP GPU and so on.

It just doesn't work that way, you can OC...but that doesn't give much of an edge if you factor....so can PS4...

[UltraNova]

"MS not gonna let this whole power, resolution thing eat them from the inside out. They're doing something about it, constantly."

Well, don't you think they should have thought about this when they decided to make money off each unit sold by skimping on the system's specs?

Now they are expected to save the day like heroes? While you the system's 'defenders' get all the flack...is that fair? Is that reason to defend them?

They fawked up this gen just like Sony did last gen with that super hard Cell architecture, split memory and super slow blu-ray drive!

Look the specs are what there are, there's no changing that. All you have to do is stop pretending and defending MS for their shity decisions and just enjoy the system as is there's no shame.

And as I said time and time again I can only hope that all this talk about dx12 etc etc work out in the end because the performance bar will be raised, inevitably benefiting all parties.

[blackout]

An always evolving system is what he said. Don't know what but I can tell you this, Sony went for power while MS went for multiple features. Loving my x1. 60fps will be the norm just wait.

[LoydX-mas]

@frosty^^

Direct X12, 32mb of low-latency Esram, and the proper SDK will be a bigger improvement than high-latency gddr5 ram.

http://www.giantbomb.com/xb...

No one is expecting "secret sauce", just the correct API that the Xbox One was built for. Which most of what I have read moves data much more efficiently and disperses the work load in ways no other API has before.

[TheCommentator]

Add to that enabling cpu multithreading. Also potential benefits for the direct link the cpu/gpu share and possible benefits for the split gpu architecture. And what tier of DX12 is XB1 designed for; 1, 2, or 3?

[GenuineGamer]

@TheCommentator

So there is still a secret feature of dx12 that MS and AMD are yet to show off. And there are still NDA's in effect for the xbo gpu. I wonder why??

http://tinyurl.com/o2tgfkc

I have a feeling xbo will have tier 3 dx12.

[Christopher]

It's getting to the point where if it's anything about DX12, you can guarantee Brad Wardell is the one saying it.

[LonDonE]

Exactly this guy is a shill, he ran his mouth constantly before GDC and we saw nothing related to dx12 and xbox one!

Now he is again running his mouth and now is changing the goal posts! seriously he needs to STFU! and let the games do the talking.

If halo 5 comes out and is graphically not that next gen then he will look like an idiot! same with forza 6 and the new gears.

I want to see DX12 xbox one games before i believe it.
I know DX12 isnt out yet but you would think 343 of all people have had access to all the new api's and dx12 before every one else!
Hence why we should all be blown away by Halo 5.

I think Halo 5 should be the proper first game to show people what xbox one can really do when used properly.

I love my x1 but i sm tired of all the bs we keep hearing, just show us instead of hype talking! sheesh

[rainslacker]

Was at that point a couple weeks ago. I said the same thing. he's about the only one talking about it and the improvements it'll bring to X1.

I wouldn't say he's a shill, but when he is the only person saying something, it does make one wonder if his motivation isn't more to push his own game and engine.

That's why I keep saying let the game speak for themselves in 2-3 years when they finally come out. But a lot of people want to believe in something that has yet to show any demo improvements. At least with their cloud stuff they showed Crackdown.

[Gazondaily]

"It's getting to the point where if it's anything about DX12, you can guarantee Brad Wardell is the one saying it."

True. And Gamingbolt will be the ones reporting it.

Wait...I'm sensing a pattern here...

[uth11]

yup, but why is it whenever I make this point, I get overwhelmed with disagrees, and you don't? lol

[imt558]

I saw this on GAF from the same thread :

Matt

"No amount of API tweaks will ever change the basic fact that the system has to use a smaller pool of eSRAM, but improvements can always be made and are always welcome."

Xbone fans, take it how you want it!

[christocolus]

"but improvements can always be made and are always welcome."

Who doesn't like improvements of any kind?but since you hate xbox alot you must be pissed about this? right?

I'm glad MS is working hard to make development easier for Devs on Xbox one. anything that benefits devs will ultimately benfit us too.

Imt588 take it how you want it!

[Neo_Zeed]

I can't wait till DX12 speaks for itself. That way I can have a good laugh because nothing is going to make up for the hardware gap with the Xbone.

[XanderZane]

Games using DX12, Cloud Tech and Win10 that are shown at the E3 will do all the talking for Microsoft. It's better to show it in a game then explain everything after that when they have gamer's attention. E3 should be very fun this year.

[deadpoolio316]

LMAO you still think the cloud is going to significantly help LMAO that is so cute...Sooooo What is the excuse going to be when DX12 doesn't do much, the same FACT that MS themselves have stated several times? They aren't even trying to hide the fact that it will not have that big of an impact on Xbox, yet you fanboys keep on pretending DX12 does not change the weaker hardware inside....

[dakunclear]

The cloud would be great the only problem is bandwidth caps in countries like Canada and areas that get very terrible internet, so ya I don't think it will help all that much *sigh but not the end of the world. As long as Microsoft can bring the games that we are all happy and at the end of the day that's what matters......

I miss the good ol' days of JRPG's

[fiveby9]

Clearly MS knows this is and has been a major issue for them. Look how much money and marketing they are putting into damage control to reach a level of parity. They made some design choice mistakes across the board from less powerful gpu, kinect requirement, DRM, and focus on television entertainment. They have had to pivot away on so many of these decisions. Frankly it's a matter of trust now. MS has a serious trust issue with many people now.

[Kyizen]

Ah yes, like the power of the Cloud which helped TitanFall get that crisp 792P resolution

[NuggetsOfGod]

Xbox 4k 60fps incoming?

[filchron]

4K 60fps hololens vision;) haha, like theyre even gonna use it. Because we know how well and extensively kinect was used for Microsoft's big exclusive titles..

[Software_Lover]

Meh. People would never know the resolution if no one told them.

[Professor_K]

recent study proves that

[Why o why]

Well software, you can thank 'lot' and 'df' articles for making it a 'thing' many used that 'thing' as fodder last gen. . Now ceasefires and morality is the narrative and that 'thing' isn't such an important 'thing' anymore . . . . .true story lol.

All improvements should be welcomed. It shouldn't be downplayed or disregarded nor should those championing each boost act like they don't care when differences are, again, highlighted

[generalthadeape]

^ Dr_K

9 out of 10 dentists would agree...

[HiddenMission]

Non educated individuals or people who need glasses can't tell the difference but many can.

I'm one who can tell the muddier resolutions from the clearer ones.

Also if you couldn't see the difference then nobody would have made tech past 720p...companies aren't into wasting money...plus 4k displays sell really well...so that says it all

[Moldiver]

"Non educated individuals or people who need glasses can't tell the difference but many can."

So basically everybody who does not frequent gamesite like N4G or check vid on digital foundry? Fact is most people wouldnt be able to tell. If I took two screen capture shots of one of my PC games at two different resolutions and did not label them, I dont think most people would be able to tell which is which. Especially with FX turned all the way up on both.

"Also if you couldn't see the difference then nobody would have made tech past 720p."

Fair enough, but consoles are also made within a budget to be sold at a certain price point. regardless of advances in tech business sense dictates the cost of a console and that affects the spec of what goes in the box. I would happily pay 800 bucks for a console with Nvidia titan like performance, but then I also own two PCs with descent cards in them ( a 560TI in my music production computer and a 670 in the computer I am typing this post on), so of course I would. But then MS and sony would be selling a lot less consoles each year.

MS big mess up was spending a huge chunk of their XB1 dev budget on kinect. That should have been spent on the box itself, given that kinect is pretty much dead as a gaming device and no longer a key part of the xbox going forward.They would have had the more powerful console.

"companies aren't into wasting money"

Indeed but they occasionally make bad choices as I just mentioned. another bad descion could be nintendos dual screen set up on the WiiU. It clearly took a chunk out of the console dev budget, and nintendo (like MS and sony) wanted to be profitable from the first console sold. The choice of jaguar APUs in MS and sony hardware is purely a cost consious one.

"plus 4k displays sell really well...so that says it all"

Perhaps but how many people do you think on N4G alone could afford a 4K capable console? How many casual gamers (who are the majority, even on console) would be willing to pay for that? It would be financially disastrous for either company to do it. Especially sony, who are the biggest beneficiaries of a weaker xbox, given there financial situation. MS should have spent the development cost on the box itself. The gap between X1 and the PS4 would not only have been reversed but considerably larger in the X1s favour. 3.1 billion spent purely on the chipset would have given them something far better than the jaguar APU. Missed opprortunity, but I dont think MS will ever allow themselves to have the weaker console again, after the launch they had followed by 'resolution-gate'. They more, than any other company in gaming have the resources to build the most powerful console every cycle. Its shocking that they have not taken advantage of that, since the OG xbox. Instead they focused on that damn camera, that nobody really wanted.

[traumadisaster]

Then why did we leave 480?

Come see 4k60fps PC games and even a 6yo can pick the better one. I know since did it.

[Unspoken]

900p to 1080p...not so noticeable.

480p to 4k? Much more noticeable.

See the difference? ;)

[Software_Lover]

Technology constantly advances. We are destined for better resolutions. I play 2560x1440 on my PC, because I can.

When it comes to the consoles, I know what I'm getting into. I'm getting the experience. The community. The games (some of them) that I can't get on PC. I couldn't tell much of a difference last gen between them, with the exception of say a God of War and Halo 4, and I don't see much difference (when it comes to resolution) now.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

The differences in resolution are readily noticeable on large screens. Computer monitors and small HDTVs, not so much.

And for those of you who continue to say that resolution doesn't matter, if you could trade in your 1080p TV for a 4k TV at no extra charge would you? You could also downgrade your HDTV for the one of the old "picture tube" televisions if resolution really doesn't matter.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

@Software. Exactly people look at numbers and suddenly its HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE O_O

I'm not saying there is no difference there is, I can see it but its so minimal and almost laughable its not worth fighting over.

So instead just slap a number on it weather its 1080, 900 or 720 and suddenly its night and day but but where as before people either can't or have a hard time even deciphering the two.

[magiciandude]

When I played SSO, that was my first native 900p and it felt like 1080p. As a matter of fact I mistaken the game as 1080p until I found out it was actually 900p via a Google search. I also played Dragon Age on both PS4 and Xbox One and haven't noticed a different even though one's 1080p and one's 900p.

This whole console war is all about resolution and I am expecting it to become 900p vs. 720+p, lol.

[rainslacker]

The ability to distinguish is really dependent on the display IMO. I can tell the difference in a larger TV, or a computer monitor for some reason, but on smaller TV's I don't see much difference. Resolution was never hugely important to me either way though. Nor was 60fps. So long as it's a steady frame rate I'm good.

[Blackleg-sanji]

Just let dx12 on Xbox prove itself to me and others cuz I'm sure it can do at least something but we don't know that until it's proven

[deadpoolio316]

It will do something, IF used correctly, which will really only be on first party titles. Multiplats will still be developed for PS4 and ported over to Xbox One like they generally do now...

Even MS keeps saying that it will have a slight impact, nothing major or groundbreaking. The hardware inside the Xbox One is not going to change just because of DX12...The major benefits will be to PC

[corroios]

Esram is a problem for Microsoft? Thats something that i dont understand why? Its not something new. I thougt that ESram was an evolution of the EDram of the Xbox 360...

Therefore, the SDK from microsoft should be very good in that department, because they are a software company and they have been making games for the Xbox 360 for so many years...

I read so many articles praising the EDRAM from 360 and now the ESRam just seems a huge bottleneck... Dont understand why.

Any computer wizard on N4g that can explain this?????

[beastlyD]

Fundamentally because its not enough to store textures and the like how the developers want to.

If the PS4 didn't have 8GB of GDDR5 ram, the xbox would be the more powerful console thanks to the ESRAM, but the speed of the GDDR5 ram in the PS4 makes it superior.

Pretty basic, and I don't know the full ins and outs of it but thats the gist.

[BallsEye]

"Fundamentally because its not enough to store textures and the like how the developers want to. "

You are very wrong here.

Using tiled resources 32Mb of eSRAM can theoretically be capable of storing up to 6GB worth of tiled textures. 6 GIGABYTES of information in 32mb of ram, and MS did already present live how it works, just there are no games out yet that use this technique. Halo V will probabaly be first. eSRAM with good API is extremely powerful. Only 32mb in XO because it's THAT EXPENSIVE and tTHAT powerful. Ever wondered why PS4 is missing anisotropic filtering in most games and have problem loading textures in some?

[IrishSt0ner]

Ciporta the low power processor and dedicated RAM (2Gb=256MB) are for background tasks, it's not comparabile in any way to eSRAM.. which is used for games. This is why you don't hear about these components in game comparisions.

The 8GB GDDR5 is compared to 8GB DDR3 and 32MB eSRAM, had they not went for GDDR5 then the Xbox would have had much higher bandwidth capability to the GPU... This would have offest any GPU advantage in a big way.

But alas, PS4 won out on both RAM and GPU. Both solutions are going to be rendered obselete very soon with AMDs next R9 300 series GPU which uses HBM (9x faster than GDDR5).

[Eddie20101]

PS4 also has a faster GPU than Xbox One, that and the faster ram. Those are the reason there are fewer visual compromises on the PS4.

That being said, Xbox One is still a great console and worth owning. Even though there are visual compromises on some games, they aren't that noticeable and make very little difference over all.

I enjoy both consoles very much.

[GameSpawn]

@IrishSt0ner and Eddie20101

More correctly the reason why the PS4 has a more powerful GPU is because of Microsoft's RAM choice. Microsoft chose cheaper DDR3 memory over GDDR5 and as a result needed to implement ESRAM to pick up some slack in the speed department. Had Sony stuck with 4GB of GDDR5 like originally rumored, Microsoft would have still had an advantage with RAM capacity despite a slightly weaker GPU. However, Sony got lucky and GDDR5 prices came down enough at the last minute to allow them to double up to 8GB matching Microsoft in capacity, but beating them in speed.

What does this have to do with the GPU them? Well the APU's of both systems (GPU+CPU on the same die) have the same physical die size. There is only so much real-estate for the processor logic, memory logic, graphics logic, etc. So, for Microsoft to add ESRAM to the die meant they had to take space away from other components. What got the cut? The GPU logic did. As a result Microsoft was stuck with a weaker GPU and a more complex RAM setup that arguably doesn't completely make up for DDR3's shortcomings over GDDR5.

[OpenGL]

I wouldn't consider myself a computer wizard but the implementation on the 360 was different than on the Xbox One as it was actually faster in terms of bandwidth but was fairly fixed function. It gave the Xbox 360 some advantages over the PS3 in terms of fill rate and anti-aliasing performance. The Xbox 360's system memory was every bit as fast as the PS3's video memory so having the eDRAM on top of that gave the Xbox 360 some distinct advantages as mentioned. (see: Red Dead Redemption)

With the PS4 and Xbox One though, the Xbox One is much slower in terms of system memory (roughly 1/3rd the theoretical memory bandwidth) and even with the eSRAM the Xbox One is at many times facing a performance deficit.

Plus we've gone from a console with 512MB of RAM to 8GB of RAM and the size of the eSRAM has only tripled, compared to the 16x increase in system memory. If it was twice the size or even 4x the size (it's currently 32MB) it would probably make a much bigger difference. Of course this would have made the Xbox One even more expensive as the APU's die would be even larger, and it's already bigger than the PS4's with only 32MB of eSRAM.

[Lennoxb63]

So you're not a computer wizard yet you named yourself Open GL? The irony.

[Aboutthetruth]

Unfortunately most people on this website don't understand how memory works. Xbox Ones memory system is superior to that in the PS4.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/...

XB1 DDR3 (off-chip)
- 4 channels x 64bit = 256bit

XB1 ESRAM (on-chip)
- 4 channels x 256bit = 1024bit

PS4 DDR5 (off-chip)
- 4 channels x 64bit = 256bit

As you can see here XB1's ESRAM's bit rate is four times more than PS4's 4 channels of 64-bits.

109GB/s at 1024-bits
176GB/s at 256-bits

You can see here that 109GB/s @ 1024bits is more than 176GB/s @ 256-bits.

Xb360's EDram was 128bits and so 256GB/s @ 128bits is not faster that 256GB/s @ 256bit.

The next part is the Memory Interface(MC). Like any PC GPUs like a HD7970 GPU can read from
the all 6MCs 384-bits wide from the MC at one time shown here the "dual 64-bit channels": http://www.techspot.com/art...
Do you see the Memory Interface(MC) this telling you this GPU can see 384-bits wide.

Now we know that PS4's GPU can see 4MC x 64bit = 256bits x 5500Gbps / 8bits = 176GB/s that the GPU can read or write. You can see that here with the 4 MCs: http://www.extremetech.com/...

XB1 is not like the PS's memory system. DDR3 is the same as in the PS4, 4MC x 64bit = 256bits x 2133Mhz / 8bits = 68GB/s and far less than PS4's
1 to 1 comparison.

This is where ESRAM comes in and remember when i said that it's about what your GPU can read Over it's MC, well XB's GPU can read or write from its DDR3 same as PS4's GDDR5 but slower, and the GPU can also read/write from it's ESRAM due to having 8 total MC simultaneously with DDR3 in play and that is why developers never say it's not fast it's just too small when not used efficiently.

4MC x 256bit = 1024bits x 853MHz / 8bits = 109GB/s @ 1024-bits not 256-bits like the DDR3 or GDDR5.
Example: PS4's numbers with ESRAM bit rate:
4MC x 256bit = 1024bits x 5.5Gbps / 8bits = 704GB/s Do you see the difference?

The other part is too complicated and out of the scope of this particular discussion but that is memory contention between the GPU and CPU fighting over the same memory controllers that doesn't happen in Xbox one or PCs.

I don't expect you to believe me go do your own homework and pick any GPU PC or console on the market the numbers will not change, nor will the math formula. Here's some.
HD7770 interface 128-bit
HD7850 interface 256-bit
HD7970 interface 384-bit
R9 290x interface 512-bit
XB1 interface 1280- bit ESRAM + DDR3
AMD's Fuji interface 4096-bit

As the tools of Microsoft improve so will the usage of this small cache and this may be happening with DX12.

[GenuineGamer]

@Aboutthetruth

You're getting too technical for the majority on here it seems with them dislikes! Either that or some people are just salty!!!

Regardless the majority it seems only see it as gddr5 being faster than ddr3 and the ps4 gpu having more CU so ps4 wins. Nevermind how it all actually works together and all the finer details that actually matter.

Most people seem write esram off because its 'only 32mb' or completely forget that xbo has it. Little do they know how it actually works or that its key to xbo overall performance.

Bring on the new esram api(devs really need it) and dx12. I suspect a few ps fanboys that are all about the power will become xbox fanboys when the new games fully utilizing the hardware come out.

[OpenGL]

Comparing the width of the bus does not make the Xbox One's memory superior.

Just because a Geforce 8800GTX and a Geforce GTX Titan X both have a 384-bit memory interface doesn't make them equal, a GTX Titan X has 4x the memory bandwidth.

[GameSpawn]

@Aboutthetruth

The reason for all the disagrees? You are just blowing out numbers while completely missing the point to why GDDR5 is faster than DDR3, despite ESRAM.

DDR3 cannot READ AND WRITE at the same time. You can only have one of these happen per clock cycle. GDDR5 on the other hand supports READs AND WRITEs during the same clocks. Taking this into account with your so called numbers completely changes everything.

Also ESRAM is and will always be a cache. In computer science cache is just bits of memory at each layer of the computer architecture model that make up for the speed differences between the layers. In the case of the XBO its architecture is (fastest to slowest; smallest memory capacity to largest; major components grouped with "[]"):
[CPU/GPU > L1 cache > L2 Cache > ESRAM] > [DDR3 RAM] > [HDD/ODD]
The PS4 is similar, but simpler:
[CPU/GPU > L1 cache > L2 Cache] > [GDDR5 RAM] > [HDD/ODD]

Now, which one of these architectures has less bottlenecks?

[uth11]

The problem is the XB1 doesn't have enough ESram from what I understand.

[xxmagicmanx]

Do you thing MS would make a mistake like that? A software company know how to build a console just look the original and the 360 better performance. Than ps2 and ps3

[ginsunuva]

and your understanding is wrong.

[uth11]

"Do you thing MS would make a mistake like that?"

haha, this is the company that thought Bob and Clippy and Vista were good ideas, and the 360 was plagued with the RROD, so are they capable? Yes

[RealityModeler]

@uth11, Vista is the basis for Windows 7,8, and 10. Obviously, Vista was a good idea as a basis for their future direction, as is XBox One OS now. Similarly, Windows 8 was good as a basis for migrating towards optimal touch support made better with 10, the same way Vista was made better with 7 (TICK me off\bomb boom cycle, then TOCK cycle). XBox One is just starting as the basis to build from, and I think MS is working on making the XBox One base very easily transferable to new faster XBox hardware with backwards and forwards compatibility. Sony fans will probably not admit it as they disagree with the obvious, though MS is OBVIOUSLY now working on tech that very possibly will allow current XBox One owners to be able to buy 9th gen games with Cross Buy and\or as Universal Apps that work on both 8th and 9th gen.

Sony is instead wasting money on PS Now 100% DRM that is cloud based, while Sony fans insulted Microsoft for what's far better (downloading content to run locally on any supported device using DRM for buy once, play everywhere) as Sony implements what Sony fans should be complaining about as far as DRM goes. It is amazingly hypocritical that Sony fans comment about how evil MS DRM is as they claim BS about how they want to "own the software" all while they say nothing similar about PS Now, AKA ABSURD hypocrisy... plus people don't technically own the software when they buy discs, they just own the right to use it whether installed from a disc or a cloud. Ironically, if your discs get stolen or burn in a fire, you will lose all your content, though instead nay sayers focus on the possibility of losing content, if Microsoft's cloud services eventually stop, all while MS is one of the largest cloud providers in the world and while the new games may be compatible forever going forward unlike the original, old, incompatible, obsolete XBox that they pretend is relevant to that argument. Sony (fan) FUD such as that is what causes lots of misinformed BSers.

The only way I don't see MS using the new XBox backwards and forwards compatibility possibilities with Cross Buy and Universal Apps ability to run on other hardware without upgrading the code (any or much) is if that DirectX 12 turns out to be able to achieve 1080P 60FPS for most games on the current XBox One... if that doesn't happen, then I expect MS to leverage their ability (sooner rather than later) to easily deploy a faster XBox while not offending current XBox One owners due to they'll have backwards compatibility when using 9th gen and forward compatibility when still using 8th gen as 9th gen XBox games are then being released.

[lemoncake]

Dx12 will come with tiled resources, so the new eSRAM api will be built to take advantage of that. Xbox ones biggest problem is that it was released before it was ready because of the ps4, this problem just shows how they had built stuff into the console that atm isn't being used or is being very underused.

With tiled resources the xbox one has the perfect amount of eSRAM but if you are not using it, like how it is now, then the amount of eSRAM is way too small. 32mb of eSRAM gives you about 6GB of textures with tiled resources.

[bluzone]

@lemoncake aren't tiled resources being used "because of" eSRAM size, not the other way around? (honest question).
This considering that the eRSRAM is all they could fit on die.

[kstap33]

Seems both companies released their new consoles a year earlier than they should have. It's clear from the improvements that have been made to both since their launch.

[Software_Lover]

They didn't include enough of it. There was no way for them to fit it on the chip.

[Bigpappy]

This gen is all about efficiency. PS4 is very efficient already (does require as much coding as Xbox/PC). DX11 is going so they need to redo the API to no let ESRAM be a bottle neck. I think that is common sense, but some may disagree anyway, LOL.

[jhoward585]

@corroios
Any computer wizard on N4g that can explain this?????

I have a pretty good understanding why ESRAM was working before.

Its All due to how the textures graphics being rendered. Tiled resource is the key to making the resolution less problematic.

DX12 render textures very different than DX11. Although, a simular render technique has been used on many 360 games. With that being said, The devs has the option to render the entire scene or they can tell system to render only what the eye can see on a 2 dimensional lcd screen. When you looking at a screen from the front You can't see anything that's rendered behind the lcd screen so it get taken out to save processing power.

That just one creative approach. The more creative a devs gets with how they apply or make use of textures/graphics, the more performance they will get out of the X1.

[oldassgamer]

Good to see MS making strides in the right direction. I was an early skeptic of the XBOX One.

[BlackTar187]

what has changed? I ask because seriously nothing has changed yet.

[Death]

What do you feel needs to change? We have seen many improvements to the OS including performance improvements and added features. The exclusive games to date have been pretty competitive also. I guess I'm just curious to know what hasn't changed?

[BlackTar187]

What Death? I don't think i said i feel something needs to change. Actually i said what has changed....... Meaning nothing has changed at this point to were you would be less a skeptic except maybe the unification of windows. But that's not exactly what this article is about or his comment. The truth is DX12 hasn't been released yet so THERE IS NO CHANGE YET since you can't quantify 0 which is my point. DX12 has done nothing to change Xbox yet so..............

I also said yet at the end of my comment meaning that in the future something will change.

[BlackTar187]

You guys. The article is about DX12 and DX12 isn't released yet so what has DX12 changed exactly? jeeez

[Death]

The article is about a developers experience with DX12 and the improvements he sees. Should we believe the developer who is using it, or should we rely on the forum poster that says it isn't out yet so it isn't real? I wouldn't think this would be a difficult choice for many to make. I'm leaning towards Brad Wardell on this one. If you click the link you can read the story too.

[BlackTar187]

Death...........

What is with you and putting words into my mouth?

1st per your first comment I never said anything needs to be changed
2nd in your second comment what did i saw isn't real? I never said DX12 isn't real. It's utter stupidity that you can't even grasp the content of my post and have to continue to say stuff that i never said and then base your post around it.

you seriously shouldn't be responding to me if you can't even understand what i'm saying. Here i'll show you how it works

Well, thanks for the reply Death but i never said anything was fake. I was saying how can you see the difference in something that isn't out yet..........? Ohh, but this is about what someone else sees in DX12 that isn't a consumer? okay well then i ask him again what has DX12 done for your system AT THIS VERY MOMENT AND ALL THE MOMENT BEFORE THIS ONE? ohh nothing? well there you go because it's not out yet.

Anyways please at least try harder

[SteamPowered]

BlackTar does have a point. DX12 is still a ways from making it to the consumer. In the meantime that will be almost 2 years the X1 has been on the market before they are able to actually utilize the hardware. Meanwhile Sony has eaten up a huge chunk of the market. Xbox division is pointed in the right direction, but they are severely lagging this gen...
And dont even get me started with PS Now, Morpheus, and other trends Microsoft is trailing.

[Dudebro90]

Dx12 games are hitting this year, confirmed by Spencer.

[Kavorklestein]

Psnow is A sad excuse for backward compibility... BC is nothing new, and and last gen consoles supported it, To be honest BOTH ms and Sony dropped the ball when it comes to backwards compatibility.
But at least MS isn't trailing when it comes to multiplatform unification and accessibility.

Windows 10 poops all over everthing cross platform related Sony or Nintendo has ever done.

Vita remote play is as close as it gets, and Windows 10 is stomping on it.

[Duke19]

Hope this is true. Would love to stop seeing "resolution-gate" articles everyday, and see more impressive games come out of it.

[tuglu_pati]

Once the "resolution gate ends" which is nothing more than fanboy ammunition, they will find another thing to talk about. If you enjoy gaming on XBO just enjoy it and forget about what's been said on the internet.

Resolution wont make your games look more impressive just a bit more sharper. Pac Man at 4k resolution will still look like Pac Man. Resolution is just a small part of the equation.

[SteamPowered]

A benchmark with DX12 on the Xbox One sounds like a great idea.

[cruzngta]

Talk talk talk....just talk. Lets wait and see the final results and if it does what they have been saying it will do than great. If not then all this is just TALK.

[uth11]

Brad Wardell again? Whenever there's an article about a dev saying good things about DX12, it's always him. He cheerleads DX12 more than MS does.

[christocolus]

Maybe it's because he is one of the lucky few to currently have access to the new api and is pretty excited?

[rainslacker]

Is it concerning that he is the only one of the lucky few who is excited enough to talk about it and that when he does talk about it it always sounds like some PR statement?

[thexmanone]

O great So the resolution gate comes to an end. Now we can look forward to the endless articles about developers aiming for party. It will never end.

[kurruptor]

Same old story. This "may" help. If the developer already knew how to use ESRAM, then this doesn't help.

[Automatic79]

Whatever improves on an already great system is fine with me.

[TheGreatGamer]

Great news, hopefully this translates into performance improvements as soon as possible. Good job MS.

[kenwonobi]

They have been saying this same ole thing for every single thing they come up with for going on two years now.

[Hueynewton2012]

Label this comment trolling if you want to, but if can remember correctly Microsoft reps stated that the cloud based services would remedy any resolution issues and increase GFX. Which one is it?

[kstap33]

Not even close. Google around instead of sounding misinformed. Better yet, read some blogs from MS engineers working on it. Xbox compute is what is called. Can help with CPU operations like AI.

[Spotie]

They also said it would free up some local processes in order to improve graphics.

[ThanatosDMC]

Yeah, they had people saying it'll have the power of three xbones combined.

[quenomamen]

Yea sure it.

[samchez77]

I hope so. It's been a landslide so far and no-one like a one sided war. No point is speculating if it will solve the issue's or not. MS are the masters of spin. We'll just have to wait an see.

Maybe this will teach the Xbox fanboy Trolls a lesson. everything they attacked the PS3 for, they now have for themselves. Karma is real. And I'm loving it. It's not a failure of a machine by any means, but the hypocrisy and double standard's I have been witnessing from Xbox fans of late is nothing short of ludicrous.

Good news about MS is that they sure have been showing the PC community (like myself) some love lately. And the new API is going to benefit PC the most. It's what it is really for.

[Gilgamesh15]

Last generation I seem to recall the opposite, Sony fanboys infested this site. Sony fans have overwhelmingly been the aggressors ever since Sony entered the gaming market.

[samchez77]

I'm not saying Sony fans are innocent.....I guess it depends on which site's you spent time on, and what your personal views are.

"since Sony entered the gaming market"
-????? I am old school. I go back to the Vic20 days. The aggression began when Xbox entered the foray and hammered the final nails into the DreamCast coffin.

I've been here for quite a few years now but didn't comment often.

Do you remember "Lens of Truth"? The comparison website? Any Sony fan that would wave his flag got shot down in flames. No matter how politely. If you said "I prefer Sony", you would be abused relentlessly. It was a warzone. Interestingly enough though, as soon as the parity differences emerged this gen......the site went off-line for good.

The keyword on the original article title is "should". If they don't know for sure at this stage of the development.....it "won't". I get sick of MS peddling you guys false hopes. Like a naturopath claiming to cure cancer....

[Death]

"The aggression began when Xbox entered the foray and hammered the final nails into the DreamCast coffin."

The Dreamcast launched on Nov 27, 1998 and was discontinued on March 31, 2001. The Xbox launched 8 months after the Dreamcast was discontinued on Nov 15, 2001.

That's some pretty scary post mortem aggression. I would think an incredibly successful console releasing in March of 2000 would have been more of a threat, but I guess it's possible for the console that released after the Dreamcast had already stopped production could be the cause.

Good call.

[rainslacker]

Only fan boys care about this crap. The vast majority of consumers...the ones that carry a generation after the first couple years, only care about the games, and won't give two craps about DX12. If one system has better looking games, regardless of the systems actual potential, it will be perceived as more powerful. That's why MS needs to put up...and well they aren't really speaking of DX12 on X1, so I won't say they need to shut up.

One 3rd party dev(I REPEAT...ONE) says this stuff, yet it's taken as gospel by some people. MS officially says it won't be dramatic, yet then the word dramatic gets spun to still be amazing. That's fan boys for ya.

[gangsta_red]

So can we take this guy's word who is an engineer/developer and is actually working with DX12?
Or are we jumping the gun like last time?

Is it okay to quote this guy in other articles when discussing DX12, performance or resolution issues?

[Stiffler]

Nah, not allowed.

Ill-informed tweets from 1.5 years ago are only credible according to GameNameFame.

Nothing positive about DX12 is allowed around these parts :P

[rainslacker]

Who else are you going to quote? He's the only dev who is praising it in regard to it's effects on X1.

You could quote Phil comments as well, but only if you don't change the meaning of dramatic.

Seriously though, who cares what and who you quote. If the quote can be argued it will be. No need to be all trollish by asking this question. If you want to make an argument using this guy, then go right ahead. If the fan boys don't like it who cares? If you want to ignore anyone who might argue against it even if they may have technical knowledge then that's your right.

[ziggurcat]

the problem with wardell is that people are taking the things he's saying, and taking them entirely out of context/applying the things he's said to xbone when he's really only talking about PC. the latest wardell tweet out of the many where he's stated that DX12 isn't the magic pill:

https://twitter.com/dragino...

[Subaruwrx]

I really hope that DX12 helps the X1's performance however; I'm really getting tired of articles based on Brad Wardell's statements because these articles make it seem like he's sucking up to MS. Would not be surprised if Brad ends up as a MS employee.

[Lennoxb63]

There was just a PS4 article yesterday that talked about debugging the GPU or something. In those comments all I heard was comments stating "its true," or "PS4 gets better everyday." Now I don't dispute those comments.

But when you get here it's "More Microsoft PR BS," "MS Lies," "I'm sick of Brad," "DX12 won't help." As if it is simply impossible for the X1 to make any improvements whatsoever. It's seriously childish.

[kenwonobi]

That reputation was earned though. Micosoft says this every new iteration of update they have or cloud. Sometimes Microsoft just says it comes out of thin air to get a enhanced performance. Then it (extra sauce) doesnt show up. Then they move on to the next hyped thing to bring them on par with Ps4. Hence the new term this generation made specifically because of Microsoft "SECRET SAUCE". Now with Sony they are merely stating they are making things for the GPU that will enhance the performance of the GPU for going on only the first few times and it hasnt been done yet to prove or disapprove whether they are genuine or not. So Sony has no secret sauce articles to call them out on it. Two every different situations.

[Lennoxb63]

They announced improvements, MS said nothing, not one thing, about it bringing it on par with or more powerful than the PS4. Those were articles on N4G trying to get hits. Secret Sauce is a term made up by journalists and fanboys.

"Sony they are merely stating they are making things for the GPU that will enhance the performance of the GPU."

And MS are merely making improvements to the ESRAM API. So I don't see the problem. When talking technology leave your bias behind please. Science has no room for it. Summer doesn't skip simply because you don't like hot weather.

[_LarZen_]

Thing is that DX12 will add some performance boost and effects it wont make the GPU magically start growing pipelines.

As the API evolves on PS4 the res difference will either escalate or be just as it's today.

If graphics matter so much then I recommend building or buying a PC. You can compare graphics to your hearths content.

[magiciandude]

"Thing is that DX12 will add some performance boost and effects it wont make the GPU magically start growing pipelines."

Uh, that has been covered the whole time since before the Xbox One launched... The same can be said for PS4 getting performance boosts entirely by software over time like it has happened with the Xbox 360 and PS3. The hardware will just get used more efficiently and waste less resources.

[MonstaTruk]

Clearing up the "Resolution issue", you say? Let's start first by not having anymore games made at 720p, first...*smGDh* Then, we can talk about 900p and 1080p. Metal Gear Solid V and the Witcher 3 are coming out in 2015, both at 720p on Xbox One. This is...ridiculous.

[meche334]

The witcher is 900p on xbox one

[Death]

http://gamingbolt.com/cd-pr...

As for MGS5, last gen they couldn't figure out how to get 9 gigs on a DVD9, I'm impressed they hit 720p on the Xbox One this time around. Konami has always treated Xbox fans with consistency.

[Tedakin]

There are hardly any 720 games anymore. Hardline? And that wasn't even 1080 on the mighty PS4. And honestly it's hard to count MGS for me when Kojima clearly doesn't care at all about the Xbox. The games was 720 before all the SDK and Kinect updates... and it still is. It could be at least 900 now.

[ScaryMonkey]

I would comment but I know how the system works here, N4G trolls and baits us with these articles, we respond, and the mods ban us for it, so why bother.

[Eddie20101]

SO, So true. Bubble for truth.

[Azzanation]

But the fanboys said the X1 hardware couldn't do 1080p..

[RedstonerMC]

Well... we're waiting?

[Leaguer]

..so is this the latest "teh cloudz" for the month of march for the xbone?

[Mikeyy]

Its strange that Brad seems to be one of the few to even make these claims, Why can't anybody else step forward and corroborate his claims?

Why is Microsoft allowing any doubt? It just seems odd to me, Why keep the window open to plausible deniability?

Stuff doesn't add up.

[kurruptor]

MS has already come out and said DX12 will have minimal impact on X1.

[Yetter]

Brads one of the few who is working on a game that was built entirely with DX12 in mind.

[steve30x]

I thought the Cloud was going to make the Xbox One Extremely powerful.

[alice2015]

dx12 in xbox one is going to be like a gold xbox one with more horse power

[Mikey Mike]

Software will not magically improve a bottleneck due to hardware.

[Gwynbleidd]

No, not magically. But as Phil Spencer said, devs have to program for DX12 and then there will be improvements.

[Vanfernal]

I have no doubt that there will be some improvements.... But there's only so much you can do on the software side. The hardware is still the same so I wouldn't go out saying stuff like it's gonna "remedy" the resolution until there is some of actual proof.

[FPS_D3TH]

Still waiting on the magic of the cloud I see.

[Leaguer]

lol

[Mikeyy]

It's the goalposts man, they will keep moving it. We went through the cloud, the Secret GPU, the SDK update, now DX12.

What will be the next "wait till"?