End gamer anonymity, end the harassment

Wil Wheaton writes "“On the Internet,” says the iconic New Yorker cartoon, “nobody knows you’re a dog.”
It’s a joke, but it’s also a problem. More venom than ever before is flowing from behind the cloak of anonymity, where people remain entirely unaccountable for their words and deeds. Recently, random men used the anonymity of a huge city like New York to harass actor Shoshana Roberts while she walked the streets of Manhattan. Unnamed users of Ask.fm bullied a British 18-year-old until she killed herself last year.

This is especially true inside the gaming community, where female developers like Zoë Quinn and Briana Wu were forced from their homes by credible, anonymous threats. Feminist video game critic Anita Sarkeesean has canceled public speaking engagements thanks to anonymous threats of violence. And activists from #GamerGate are hiding behind user IDs to terrorize women like my friend Felicia Day."

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

Funny because I recall Felicia Day specifically calling out anti-GG for these issues earlier this month. Guess what she thinks is irrelevant to what this guy wants her to think. IMO 3rd wave feminism is all about oppressing people.

[JsonHenry]

I couldn't think of a worse way to handle this than forcing people to use a RealID when on the internet. First off anyone can fake you if they want to frame you. Secondly its a total loss of rights to the individual. Being anonymous on the internet is no different than having a pen-name, writing a letter to the editor without giving a real name, or refusing to give your name to strangers. Who can then use it against you for expressing an idea no matter how innocent or insidious.

You think this whole bullying thing is bad now? How bad would it be if people knew your real name?!

[-Foxtrot]

He only gave a shit when Felicia Day was "attacked"...you know when she suddenly decided to speak out about it. She once said "I don't want to talk about GG as I'm afraid of being hacked"...moments later he account is hacked and she's "abused"...GamerGate is automatically blamed straight away. I mean being hacked and attacked just after you said you were scared of speaking out about it...seems fishy to me. Besides Felicia Day is a fake in my opinion, she uses the gaming industry to keep her self relevant as her acting career isn't the best and since she's seen as this "Geeky goddess" to most she decides to play on it to keep herself known. Can't blame her but it's annoying.

Will, like most, doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and is trying to become involved like how Adam Baldwin was to the pro side....except Adam got involved because he was actually interested in the situation

"Briana Wu were forced from their homes"

Did she really leave her home though? Did Zoe? I mean after Briana was caught out I wouldn't be surprised if Zoe was lying aswell

"to terrorize women like my friend Felicia Day"

See...he's speaking out over something he knows nothing about just because it's his friend. Least if I was defending my friend I'd look at the entire picture.

[freshslicepizza]

you didnt even touch upon the subject at hand which is anonymity and the impact of those who use it to their advantage. put a face behind the comments and i guarantee you people would think more before saying stupid things. of course it wont remove it all as weve seen even with famous people over twitter and such but it would remove the hateful and threatening comments by quite a bit.

i truly believe people like to act out and almost live as a different persona online. as though their own life is so boring or they feel ignored in real life so they feel like over-compensating and being a troll.

[Truthandreason]

I used to think if you could put a real name and face to a comment that people would act better, but then Facebook proved to me that it doesn't matter. People say outrageous **** all the time on there.

[Kurylo3d]

U know what.. i actually prefer anonymity for 2 reasons. One because big brother is always watching .. and 2.) Because its real.. when its anonymous people say whats really on their mind.. and act like who they really are and really want to be. Its sad, but its truth. At least u cut through the bull sh**. Anonymity is good if your boss for instance is a republican and u want to vent about republicans cause your a democrat. There are bosses that would fire u over political differences. But at the same time its just sad to know the truth.. the truth that half the people out there are still racist.. sexist.. and homophobic horrible people.

Oh and lets say we all had to reveal our identities.. how many hackers are out there that are gamers.. that would make your life a living hell financially because u beat them in a video game and laughed at em. No thx... lol.. In a world of hackers, pedophiles, and hateful people... id rather remain anonymous.

[freshslicepizza]

i think most of us enjoy our anonymity. i was just elaborating what some of the downfalls are when you are dealing with disturbing individuals who use it for their advantage.

sure some people might not express themselves as freely because they are worried about the repercussions but at the same token if it helps curb idiotic behaviour then i am supportive of it in some cases. allow people to express themselves freely while also being held accountable meaning the site itself can ban individuals if need be.

can you imagine dealing with those who cannot be tracked that only create accounts to troll or agitate others or even worse, make threats? there has to be some form of civility on forums.

[LightDiego]

That's true, she is really annoying. And Wil Wheaton pretending to be a white knight warrior like a lot of people who doesn't know what GamerGate is about. Harassment always existed on internet, it's not exclusive to Anita's Day Wu.
I lost the count of how many people are pretending to be a victim on the gaming industry.

[SaveFerris]

It's all human nature. The internet gives people an outlet to act like a bully, a jerk or whatever because they feel like it and because they can do it anonymously.

You can enact laws to prosecute people for harassment, but people will still continue to be harassed everyday because human nature is much harder to change.

[annoyedgamer]

Did you care when threats were sent to Gabel? No. How about when Rotten tomatoes had to shut down comments because of death threats? Blah that's nothing.

But a "strong" woman? END THE PATRIARCHY

Again these movements are all to enact tyranny upon the masses. To track down enemies of the state.

[-Foxtrot]

There's been a crap load of male figures in this whole GG thing who have been attacked and abused online but nobody gives a shit.

For example Milo got a syringe and a knife sent to him by mail telling him to kill himself....yet nothing.

[Anon1974]

When Milo received those threats, was that related to his support of Gamergate or was it from one of the people and firms he defrauded when he headed up "The Kernel"?

Or perhaps an upset gamer who objeedct to Milo referring to gamers as rapists in response to the Elliot Rodger shootings?

Or perhaps it was in retaliation for another of his transphobic rants? Or maybe one of his offensive, racist tinged articles?

Really, when trying to figure out who might have a beef with Milo there's quite a line that's formed over the years.

Or hey! Maybe it's Gamergate turning on him for one of his clear, journalistic ethics breaches, like either lying about Brianna Wu being transgendered or attempting to out her (either case, a gross violation of journalist ethics). Or when he recklessly revealed personally information on Zoe Quinn. Again, a clear ethical breach of journalistic standards.

Maybe he's simply lying to garner attention before he launches his book on Gamergate? Or is reporting this type of harassment just an attention ploy when it happens to people you don't agree with?

Not saying for a second that I agree with harassing this person, though.

[FriedGoat]

http://i.imgur.com/T3ungTp....

Hey look, an Anti Gamergate person threatening to shoot someone.

But darkride66 says the guy deserves is because he supports gamergate and darkride66 loves to push his crappy agenda onto everyone.

That's ok then /s

The mind set that a person matters more than another is what causes people to become scummy activists or SJW in the first place.

[Blacktric]

"When Milo received those threats, was that related to his support of Gamergate or was it from one of the people and firms he defrauded when he headed up "The Kernel"? "

When Sarkeesian was harassed that one specific time, was that related to her support of anti-GG agenda or was it from one of the people who will never get that 10 dollar donation back?

You see, I can make sh*t up with the "you can't prove I'm wrong" mentality!

[annoyedgamer]

Darkride is using SJW terms again. "transophobic" the fact that that he even felt it necessary to bring up missused "phobia" continues to show his position.

According to liberals/SJWs anyone sho disagrees is an ofensive transophobic, homophobic, islamophobic, racist, sexist, misogynist, cis, white male.

What must be done with these "dangerous" and offensive haters? They must be silenced. How do we silence them? Well at the moment the laws put in place by our forefathers stands in the way but if we can find out their place of employment we can get him fired and ruin his life because he is dangerous. Sound familiar? It was the thought process used in Hitler's inner circles to figure out how to deal with the "Jewish problem" prior to rewriting the laws.

Most do not know this because history is barely taught in schools anymore especially the history of the rise of the Third Reich. You know why? Its no mistake.

[Godmars290]

"Really, when trying to figure out who might have a beef with Milo there's quite a line that's formed over the years."

And yet when the likes of Wu and Quinn receive threats, despite their feminist positions well before GG, they are only being threatened by GG? Not some anti-feminist?

[Anon1974]

"Bu..bu...Gamergate are victims too! How dare this actor respond to the harassment of a friend and not comment on the harassment of people he doesn't know?"

Do you guys even hear yourselves? Wheaton shared an opinion on how the anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in some people. He's 100% correct. But of course it would kill you guys to pass up an opportunity to play the victim too, even when someone brings up an excellent point that applied to everyone.

@FriedGoat. Yeah, I specifically stated I don't agree with Milo being harassed, I DID NOT state he was deserving of harassment, nor have I denied that GG supporters have been on the receiving end of harassment. Nice try at putting words in my mouth. Google "Strawman".

@Blacktric. Exactly my point. Thank you. It's ridiculous, isn't it? Unless you know exactly where the threats are coming from, what good does it do to point the finger at one particular group?

@annoyedgamer. Again, straight to the Nazi references. You know you don't have a strong point when...
Milo has made his views on transgendered people very clear over the years and uses every opportunity to bash them as sick individuals who need psychiatric help. This is a matter of fact. But way to use this as an excuse to bash "SJW" and try to link them to Nazis. Nice work there.

@GodMars290. See my response to Blacktric. :)

But like I stated above, a hearty "way to go" for completely missing the point of this article (which I'm sure none of you read anyway) while finding another excuse to paint Gamergate as some persecuted minority. Complete with a comparison to Nazi treatment of Jewish people.

Have you guys started thinking of which actors will play you in the Speilberg movie about the injustices you faced during your GamerGate persecution?

[Godmars290]

" Unless you know exactly where the threats are coming from, what good does it do to point the finger at one particular group?"

You're pointing the finger at one particular group. You've only been doing that when it might be GG involved.

[Anon1974]

@Godmars290. I've never said that. In case you missed it all the other times I've flat out said this: I'm 100% against online harassment in any form. GG supporters harass. Anti-GG supporters harass GG supporters. Back and forth it goes. I think it's all wrong and I condemn this behaviour.

In case you feel that I've personally been unclear on where I stand on this issue, I hope this clears that up for you.

If you wonder why I'm not posting news stories about GG's who're receiving harassment and it's always the other way around, check the internet. There aren't news articles about GG's who receive harassment. I'm always looking for pro-GG articles to help offer a balanced view of the opposing viewpoints but let's not kids ourselves here.

Those articles are few and far between. I'm not going to sit here and take responsibility for the lack of pro-GG articles on this site when I'm not the only contributer to the site and articles of that nature are almost completely nonexistent.

I also want to plainly state, I think issues regarding ethics in game journalism are important and should be discussed. I have a long history on this site of calling out game journalist behaving badly. What I am is anti-harassment, and that applies to everyone who'd use harassment as a tool in an attempt to stifle conversation.

[Godmars290]

*facepalm*

One of the major GG issues is that anti-GG, extreme feminist, Marxist and pseudo-intellectuals, have gotten their hooks into gaming media, a majority of forum boards, and control the narrative. That for year they've been exerting their and blackballing anyone who they feel don't share their ideologies if not just social preferences. Aren't a part of their klick.

And you're somehow surprised that you can't find stories concerning anti-gg harassing gg.

Maybe you should try looking at some of the newer site which are trying to apply ethic codes. Not old standbys like Kotaku, who have pretty much openly stated that they're entitled to express their opinions as fact.

[Anon1974]

@Godmars. I don't know how many times I have to say this before it will sink in.

I don't write these articles. I'm fully aware there are more articles against GG than for. I'm simply sourcing these articles from Google and not picking and choosing. If you see reputable , proGG articles, send them to me and I'll happily post them or give them a preview and my approval.

You want to see more pro GG articles, step up. I'm actively looking for articles from both sides to contribute. Are you? It's that simple. You want more articles from new sites submitted? Seriously, what's stopping you?

[Godmars290]

I am commenting here, taking the stance that I am, because I have noticed you not only submit articles such as this, but defend them along with the likes of Wu and Sarkeesian as if they are were not only innocent of any wrong doing, but righteous. I am also pretty certain that I got into a rather pointless argument with you regarding shirtstorm where you repeatedly kept using some pseudo-intellectual that suggested he'd done it out of willful unconscious intent while ignoring and dismissing that the shirt had been made and given to the man by a woman.

I don't particularly want to see pro-gg articles here, I'm just tired of the anti-gg ones.

[Anon1974]

You didn't talk to me about shirtstorm. I haven't the faintest idea what that is.

And check my comments. I'm anti-harassment, and pro-game journalist ethics. My "support" of these people you mention usually consists of "perhaps you should inform yourself about these opinions so you can discuss rather then condemning points which have never been made." Do you find that unreasonable?

So often on this site I see people who simply aren't interested in keeping to the topic at hand, or even for a second considering points that aren't in lockstep with their opinion. And always with the labels and generalizations. Have you seen DragonKnight's nonsensical ramblings about "SJW"'s, "SJW Gods" and "Literally Wu" people (whatever the hell that is)? He treats anyone with a different opinion like this fantasy demon that exists only in his mind and can't stick to the topic at hand to save his life.

As for my personal opinions, of course there's sexism in videogames, just as they're in movies, television, novels, etc. I see no harm in casting a critical eye on our hobby in this respect, I just have no interest in screaming bloody murder about things that aren't even being said. The call is for more inclusive games, and if games like the new Dragon Age shows us anything it shows us that this is something that gamers seem to want. Where's the harm in talking about that? Where's the hurt in a future where my daughter has more games directed at a female demographic than exist today? It's not like it's going to happen at the expense of games directed at men.

As for agreeing with the likes of Brianna Wu...you mean when she says things like "Please don't harass my friends. Please don't harass me. Please don't post pictures of my house. Stop stalking me," etc? Those are the views that you have issue with, because really...that's the only thing I've ever heard her say. Not that I pay any attention to her.

Just posted a pro-GG piece today about anti-gamergate from gamergate.me if you're interested in having a look. People keep asking for more pro-GG submissions. There you go. Approve away. If you can figure out what the hell they're talking about, please feel free to PM me as it's my last bubble and I probably won't be on her much until after the holidays.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!

[Godmars290]

First off, if you hadn't said that you submitted a pro-gg article which you didn't understand, despite the obviousness that you only posted it because of all the complaints you get for only submitting anti-gg articles, my vote for it would still be up, just removed it.

It was about how the anti-gg for all of its subversive posturing actually relies on mainstream for much of its bite.

As for Brianna Wu - the woman is an active agitator and professional victim. Someone who looks for a fight just so that she can beg for help and complain about being threatening being hit after she's threatened to hit someone.

[rainslacker]

@Dark

I didn't read the article, because honestly, Wheaton isn't an expert on what it would take to end harassment. He himself is no stranger to harassment on the net, not to mention a lot of negative comments about him because lets face it, he was annoying as piss on ST:TNG.

Wheaton himself also isn't exactly the pinnacle of virtue. Seriously, go google some of the stuff he's written on his blog, or comments he's made before he became entangled in gaming culture. Can you say hypocrite, because he is a perfect example of one.

Anyhow, his bias is because of his own experience, and there is no reason to believe that in a social network of hundreds of millions of people, that anything would change simply because we suddenly know the names of all the people commenting. Harassment still happens in social settings that use real names, such as facebook or non-anonymous forums.

In real life, when knowing people, we only tend to associate with those that we respect on a social level(outside work of course), and because of that, we don't see it in normal society as much, but it certainly does exist. When we see it, most normal people have the same reaction of disgust that we've seen from those speaking out against the harassment on both sides of GG.

On the internet, we are almost forced to associate with everyone, or rather, we choose to associate with everyone, so everyone has a voice. The only difference though is that when we see some a**hole in real life, we more often than not just don't confront them and think poorly of them, but outside of some bigots, rarely is that person's actions used to discredit a large group of people who may happen to be associated with that person in some loose way. Online we confront them, and speak harshly about how terrible it is for people to act like that.

Anyhow, using real names, many people may be a bit more respectful, but the trolls won't go away, because there are stupid people everywhere.

But getting rid of anonymity will bring more problems than it would solve, and it certainly wouldn't solve harassment. The ability to exact retribution in some misguided noble cause of holding people responsible can be taken upon by anyone(and it will because people like to feel noble), instead of responsible parties which are actually purposed and trained for that task.

[ginganinja]

Maybe it's not that nobody cared when those threats were made - we know about them, therefore there must have been some coverage about them.
Maybe it's because most people agreed they were bad things. So, rather than trying to claim they were attention whores, asking the FBI to confirm the threats and other manner of BS, the stories faded away much sooner.

[Blacktric]

"End gamer anonymity"

Said the big mouthed rich mangina public figure, who's still living off of royalties from that one little role he had in Star Trek: The Next Generation...

Anonymity encourages fair discussion, since you do not know what kind of person you are talking to, thus can't use their race/gender/nationality/life style against them to take cheap potshots. But I shouldn't have expected some moron to understand this.

[awi5951]

Not a little role he was on there for years and he had shows that was focused entirely on him. Sounds like you are jelly to me.

[Blacktric]

"Sounds like you are jelly to me."

I always love it when a random guy tries to defend a "celebrity" by using the "ur just jealous!" card. And yeah, I think I am jealous that he's sitting on his fat ass and earning more than most people while doing absolutely f**k all.

Oh wait no, he had his very own show which was cancelled in a short time due to horrid ratings... Well, at least he can still guest star in Big Zimbabwe Theory whenever he needs more money.

[Mikefizzled]

If you are using race/gender/nationality/life style to take potshots how on earth are you supposed to be having a fair discussion?
Wheaton isn't living off of royalties at all. But you seem to be holding a disposition towards him already. If you start calling people morons for being actors and media personalities I guess you enjoy your anonymity.

[FriedGoat]

I think he's calling him a moron because of his stupid opinions, not his career. I would call anyone who wants to take away my internet freedoms a moron too.

[Blacktric]

" If you start calling people morons for being actors and media personalities"

I couldn't care less about his acting career. Hell, I own a lot of TNG related crap and didn't mind him in the show.

But when someone opens their mouth to talk about "ending gamer anonymity" just because their precious pseudo-celebrity friend felt threatened because of GG, that's when I get to call him a moron.

[awi5951]

Well sites need to start using ISP bans by making you sign up with your internet provider email to put a stop to the BS.

[AKissFromDaddy]

@Blacktric You wrote that awi5951 is a random guy defending someone you disagree with you and whom you've titled a "big mouthed rich mangina public figure" behind your anonymity, but in the same breath write that "anonymity encourages fair discussion". It's ironic that you won't use your real name or photo(s), even on Twitter, to take ownership of the comments you're espousing, thus leading you to denigrate someone else who uses their real name and image to make their argument. Think about it.

It's embarrassingly disheartening.

[Anon1974]

Nice. Well said. :)

[jeeves86]

He's still an actor, still works, writes, etc.

It's cool though, I'm sure he's got lots of haters.

Anonymity encourages dickotry.

[rainslacker]

Dude, this guy is misogynist as all heck. He is not as virtuous as he is trying to make himself out to be unless he's had some recent epiphany about how much of an a** he used to be.

Otherwise, I do agree with the second part of your comment overall, but I do feel that it also has the drawback that the arguments are often dismissed because people feel that the other person is just some random person on the internet.

Also, people still take cheap potshots, but mostly from those that can't form a cohesive solid argument.

Anyhow, some links to show why I don't think I should care about his opinion on the subject.

http://www.sundriesshack.co...

http://wilwheaton.typepad.c...

And pretty much anything he's said about GG which I feel he's using to just get more exposure. He's opinionated, which is fine, but he obviously doesn't call out people on an individual level, and would rather classify everyone as one thing or another.

It wasn't until about 2012 that he started becoming some feminist hero(I guess he's that in some places). before that he was just an offensive a**hole. If google didn't post all the crap he's said about GG above all the BS he's said before 2012 then I would have provided more links.

I'm not saying he's completely wrong in every facet of his feminist views nowadays, but he totally missed the mark with how he's reacted to GG, and how he's demonizing people instead of actually tackling the issue.

It's become readily apparent that shaming people isn't going to change a damn thing, so why not actually just approach the root of the issue instead. Whatever that root is is for another discussion though.

[Volkama]

Blizzard tried to take away a layer of anonymity from their very toxic WoW forums not too many years ago.

My memory is a little fuzzy, but I am fairly sure their customers openly embraced the idea and are still engaged in polite discusssions all over the forums to this day.

[Spotie]

That will only work in some arenas. You don't need the WoW forums to play the game, do you?

I'm not some overprotective boob, but there's no way in hell I'd want my kids NOT being anonymous while playing online. And I know I'm far from the only one.

Can you take away layers, as you put it, in some areas of gaming? Sure. But that's not what's being talked about here. And I continually find it ironic how this white hot spotlight has been turned on gaming, as if the rest of the net is devoid of the very same happenings. As if the rest of REALITY is exempt. As if this is a problem that only affects women.

Oh, I forgot. It's only bad if it happens to women. My experiences being called racial epithets can go to hell; the incidents where some retard online threatened to harm my family mean nothing.

Cuz I'm a guy.

[Volkama]

Blizzard were going to use "RealIDs" across all of their forums and all of the social tools in WoW and Starcraft. So it wasn't real names per se, but it exposed the account behind any post or chat. The community went nuts, and the story made some headlines in pretty mainstream media. Blizzard had to pull the plug on it before it ever went live.

It probably would have worked wonders to clean up the forums, but it was not to be. The whole idea is not something anyone is likely to attempt to impose any time soon having seen the reaction. Put it in the pile with "always online console".

I certainly agree that this problem has very little to do with gaming over any other place on the internet.

Edit: My memory was indeed fuzzy. Real IDs were expected to be real names:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news...

[rainslacker]

@Volk

100% right. I was around during that time, and the forums were pretty riled up about it and it was talked about frequently in trade chat on WOW. I would hardly call it openly embraced. people were fine with what RealID eventually became though, because it was mostly optional, and you still had control over who got to see it. I do think a lot of the initial reactions were from misunderstanding though, because RealID wasn't really opening up everything to everyone, but it had some drawbacks.

I think the only way a website could survive having real names is if they enforced that requirement at the beginning, say facebook...which actually doesn't enforce it but people do it anyways. Once you have your audience, they aren't going to want to change, and I don't see most of the internet feeling comfortable with their names suddenly being open to the public.

I know I would not say a lot of the things I do on here because it would render my game development career over because I do have some strong opinions about certain topics. I would hate to have to censor myself in the interest of keeping food on the table, so in effect it renders my voice as a gamer completely silent(I realize I'm a minority case in this regard but it is applicable to people in other professions as well). This is all despite the fact that my opinions are often valid, and I don't harass people and try to be respectful, but nowadays you can't express your opinion without it being offensive to someone and because it's offensive to someone, you must be punished. That to me is why an end to anonymity would be the death knell for really seeing how people feel on the internet and getting unfiltered commentary from all sides, just because some people can't handle criticism, or misinterpret criticism as hate.

[DragoonsScaleLegends]

How do you end harassment though? Only people without much intelligents and because of the anonymity of the Internet do people harass other people. Unless people want to let go of the small privacy people have online it will never change. Also gamers are definitely not the only people who harass online so why are gamers all being put together like gamers are to blame when it's just the idiocy of people causing issues for fun. Also again what is the point of GamerGate? If something illegal is being done then what is the point of people yelling at each other, it will not change anything. Only idiocy can stop something bad from becoming good.

[rainslacker]

It's not possible to end all harassment. It could maybe be lessened through what this article title says, but I find it highly doubtful to end it completely, because there are just people that don't care, or see no ramifications behind their actions. Asking how do you end harassment is just like asking how do you end any crime...in most cases, it's just not possible to do 100% of the time.

The internet voice is hundreds of millions of people, and out of hundreds of millions of people, you're going to have a small percentage that are going to go against the grain of that culture, and act out in some way that will be harmful to someone else, in some cases harassment. That's true offline too, and offline, aliases aren't a common thing, and 99% of the time, people know who is harassing them. To think that the internet is different than society is a false premise, because internet culture is representative of society.

The biggest difference going on with GG now though is that it's not the individuals that are being called out. Unlike real life, an entire group of people is being called harassers(among other things) because I guess the internet is some special magical place where societal norms are different than real life norms.

Best analogy I can come up with is some girl is harassed by a guy she doesn't know that attends XYZ college. In real life, the guy himself would be the focus of ire, whereas on the internet, everyone who attends XYZ college is to blame, and they all would behave the same way. It's obviously a bad corollary to blame the other students, but on the internet, it's a perfectly logical conclusion to make to some people, and those people's logic have somehow gained traction which only seems to validate the flawed logic amongst themselves and others looking in from the outside.

People harass others in forums that don't have anonymity too. The issue with the internet isn't only that people feel that they are free from being held responsible, it's that they feel that there is no one that will hold them responsible because the internet feels like an anarchy with no real enforcement.

The point of gamergate is to try and get more ethical behavior from the gaming press. It really doesn't have anything to do with harassment.

I do say that something being illegal doesn't mean that something will be done about it. Often times authorities won't do something unless there is a big enough fuss about it and it becomes necessary for them to do something. At the same time, the authorities would probably have no clue anything happened unless there was some complaint lodged, and in the case of the internet, I'd imagine many cases are ignored unless there are enough complaints about a single topic, because I'm sure people flood authorities offices with things that aren't actually illegal.

[00]

do these idiots really want to try and fight the internet, cause they're going to loose.

it's funny 10 years ago you were told don't put your real information in the internet because bad people can do terrible things to you, now these sjw want peoples names and faces behind the computer so they can haunt people down and destroy live over a simple disagreement. these people believe doing absolutely anything necessary for their cause for justice. you know something is wrong when they freely admit to trying to swat a lawyer and file false police reports over a different opinion.

these people are evil.

[Eiffel]

Evil is a good word, I like to think in the manner of cliche Saturday morning cartoon villainy, since they seem to lose just about always at everything. It's like almost every week there's some new scheme or hashtag to try and defeat Gamergate and take over the world, ultimately of course it fails and they retreat back to the Hall of Doom.

[hazelamy]

gamers eh?

who else would attack somebody for daring to say that threats and bigotry should stop?

[valet_Smerdyakov]

Wait, I'm confused... Anita Sarkeesean, Zoe Quinn and Felicia Day are not gamers too?

[hazelamy]

i'd say Zoe and Felicia are, Anita?
debatable.

but let's for the sake of argument say yes, they are.

my response is, AND?

does that invalidate my point that gamers are attacking those who take a vocal stand against harassment, bigotry and threats online?

[valet_Smerdyakov]

So your point was gamers were attacking gamers? AND?

The cute thing is you fell in your own trap: people like you are trying to persuade me that women play video games as much as men and the industry should take notice and change accordingly and then you slip and paint gamers as sterotyped pimple faced basement dwelling MEN.

[hazelamy]

oh no... you outsmarted me.. you fiendishly clever person.

except...
my assertion that women play games isn't incompatible with my assertion that bigotry and harassment are a problem within the gamer "community".

the comments on articles like this show that, anybody who dares to criticise gaming or gamers gets showered with hate.

any time anybody who has any view other than "gaming is perfectly fine don't touch gaming"
they're a feminazi, extreme feminist, liberal, misandrist, comparable to actual nazis, and now apparently marxists.

people state that those who say anything against gaming should die, i'm pretty sure, at least i'd hope, anybody making actual threats would get removed.

and they get more agrees than disagrees.

and just look at what happens when any gay character comes up, or the disgusting responses when a review of a game in a gay magazine was posted.

the attitude is, "i want gaming to stay the way i like it, and anybody who wants it to change is just following an agenda"

i'm paraphrasing a bit, but the point is clear.

did you get my sarcasm in that first sentence?
smart guy like you really should have.

but anyway.

back on topic, you don't like what he said.
i get that.

so, why don't you delete your account and go out and do something more productive, if what he said bothers you that much that's the only logical course of action right?

that's your advice right?
according to you, you should just grow some skin, whatever that means, and get over it or you can leave.
or does that only apply to bullies and bigots?

[valet_Smerdyakov]

@Hazelamy, remember Bender from Futurama how he used to say "I create my own XYZ, with blackjack... and hookers"? That would my advice to those unsatisfied with the gaming industry be: get off your ass, go study computer science, take a loan from a bank, start a business and create your own freaking game... featuring as many women, gays, paraplegics or Inuits in it as you want.

[ShaunCameron]

Amen. When will those people finally come to terms and accept the fact that the industry doesn't owe them a ***-****-ed thing?

[rainslacker]

@valet

You missed the real trap she fell in too. You see, there are way more gamers who speak out against the harassment than those that harass others, but hazel won't seem to admit that they exist. But since they do, by the logic of anti-GG types, that must mean that gamers are now not hateful, misogynistic sexists who just love to harass everyone.

Anyhow @ hazel

I would say there are people besides gamers who would threaten others because they said that threats and bigotry must stop. Perhaps you've only recently gotten into the whole feminist movement, but the whole feminist movement has had to face that from the very beginning, sometimes in much worse ways that what's happening now, and I don't think gaming was a big thing back in the 60's. Then of course there was the civil rights movement or any number of other equal rights movements.

The thing is, people can identify themselves with different groups, and be part of all those different groups. Being a bigot does not preclude you from being a gamer, but being a gamer does not make you a bigot. You're a gamer...would you consider yourself a bigot?

Gaming truly is inclusive of all types, from gays, women, bigots, you name it, you can find a gamer that is probably it, but knowing you used to make intelligent comments, I can't reasonably believe that you would say that all gamers are all those things. You're own arguments are against you on this, because you yourself admit that there are many different types within our community.

I understand if you want to try and stop harassment, or have women represented more equally in the gaming world, but that's not going to happen by acting like the gamers are the problem. The problem is is that stopping harassment isn't going to happen on the internet in general, and that what exactly having women represented more equally actually means. Gaming is a consumer market, and that market is going to dictate what it wants by sales trends. People aren't going to change their buying habits en mass just because some people on the internet are trying to shame them into thinking they shouldn't like what they already enjoy. Those sales trends will change when publishers see that the kinds of things you may want actually sell enough to support making a game to them.

So basically, stop trying to take the boys toys away, and get your own toys if you don't like ours. Most gamers have no problem with women being in our community, but many male gamers do have a problem with some groups and individuals trying to dictate to us what it is we're supposed to like, and how we should change just to accommodate them. And that's the major flaw of the SJW side. It often appears to them that their inclusion equals the exclusion of the other side.

[GokuSolosAll]

We need our anonymity, we deserve it, and it's our right to privacy. People just want to stifle our unbridled truth and opinions. Screw right off.

[valet_Smerdyakov]

Grow some skin, end the harassment... would be my advice.

"Unnamed users of Ask.fm bullied a British 18-year-old until she killed herself" Hm, she should have deleted her ask.fm account and spent time in a better way: going to a library or exercising with a kettlebell.

[ziggurcat]

it amazes me that despite those involved in GG repeatedly shouting that the movement is not at all about promoting misogyny, yadda yadda yadda, there's dumb dumb articles like this one pinning every little thing on them just because a very small group of people, who aren't even associated with those involved with GG, thinks it's funny to harass people online.

darkride88, while i did principally agree with you on the hatred game, this BS you keep pushing has to stop. no one cares. really. those involved with gamergate don't give a flying **** what your gender is - whether you're the developer of the game or the protagonist - as long as the game is good, they're going to play. the thing they *do* give a crap about are the journalists who feed them their information on the games they want to play, and all they really want is for those people to maintain some form of journalistic integrity.

[NarooN]

This guy is such a tool.

[TenorCleft1]

All other things ignored for the moment, it seems pretty obvious that anonymity on the Internet causes problems. Perhaps we could establish some spheres where it is important (for example, to facilitate freedom of speech and of association on the Internet at large), and places where it isn't (for example, Xbox Live).

[madjedi]

NO anonymity does not cause problems, it's people using anonymity as a cover while they intentionally troll, grief and harass others that causes problems.

Right you don't get to pick and choose where freedom of speech is valid and where it is not.

No one does and it should stay that way, I would rather not have random people dictate to me, where I am allowed to speak and where I am not.

Leave that to sony and ms to manage/police.

People use their real names on facebook doesn't stop them from treating others poorly, why would it be any different with gamers and anonymity.

[AKissFromDaddy]

"you don't get to pick and choose where freedom of speech is valid and where it is not."

Yes we do and have. The Supreme Court has held that "advocacy of the use of force" is unprotected when it is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and is "likely to incite or produce such action".

The Supreme Court decided that there is "no constitutional value in false statements of fact". Defamation of character lawsuits and lawyers exist for this reason. Can't yell "fire" in a theater if there isn't one, without legal repercussions.

Threats of violence that are directed at a person or group of persons that has the intent of placing the target at risk of bodily harm or death are generally unprotected.

Regulations of speech on broadcast radio and television are enforced. Can't do false or unethical advertising without the threat of lawsuits or the Federal Communications Commission actively becoming involved.

The Patent and Trademark Office canceled the Washington Redskins' trademark, concluding that it is "disparaging to Native Americans."

Freedom of speech is validated and invalidated, daily. Think about it.

[madjedi]

Talking about random individuals deciding that, not the government or supreme court and its interpretation of the constitutionality of the amendments.

So getting the Washington redskins trademark canceled due to it being disparaging to native americans is important.

But the exceedingly high lvls of alcohol addication, very high unemployment lvls and overall poorer standards of living on many reservations isn't.

Addressing that seems a lot more important than changing a potentially disparaging to native American sports team name/trademark.

If we are going to meddle in a another nations business we could at least do it for something actually needed or beneficial than petty nonsense.

Talk about having the wrong priorities, in regards to helping people, we have screwed over so thoroughly in the past.

Not really directed towards you.

[madjedi]

Right so the internet keyboard killers can try to get people fired over petty ass shit.

Because you don't believe in the same opinion as I do therefore I am justified in treating you like shit or destroying your life because you offended/upset me.

If you have to justify you own questionable/shitty behavior because someone else says or believes in something you deem offensive.

You have lost any and all pretense of superior morality or higher moral standing, and any right to look down upon and call out others for theirs.

[uth11]

Everyone who supports this... please start by creating N4G accounts under your real name and photo. I'll wait.. still waiting.. crickets.

When the SJW doxx people they don't agree with, and then harass their employers and get them fired, all for having an opinion, there's no better reason to keep anonymity. You don't have to behave badly, someone merely needs to take offense.

These people want to end anonymity because they are control freaks, and you can't intimidate an anonymous person into silence.

[Anon1974]

I've had my real name attached to my N4G account for years. All you have to do is click on my icon and it'll take you over to my bio which has my name, my webpage, twitter account and PSN and XBL id's. My name is Kyle Kulyk. 40 year old, Canadian mobile game developer, husband, geek, proud gamer and father of two.

Personally, I think if you're saying something that you wouldn't want to have attached to your real name, you should probably rethink saying it. People should be willing to take ownership of their opinions.

[uth11]

I've interviewed at a company that mines the web for people's personal information. Information is sold. Companies can pay for this as part of an employee's background search. Maybe they decide not to hire you because you got tagged in embarrassing pics, or maybe they don't like that you are too active in a video game forum.

Anyway, you never know what you post online might come back to haunt you.

Maybe you hold a position that is not controversial now, but will be controversial in 10 years. People have lost jobs due to that.

Not even just employment. Maybe you'll get some crazy person you upset online show up at your house.

[Anon1974]

And it's well within a company's rights to mine online sources for personal information about potential employees. I 100% support that right and have myself turned to the internet to research potential hires for my own company.

You're correct. You never know what might come back online to haunt you. Which is why you should be as concerned about your online activities as you should be the way you conduct yourself in person. The internet is forever.

And yes, some crazy person might show up at my house. In fact, I've had to deal with police in the past due to and internet harasser who took it too far. That's on them for their illegal activities. I'm not going to let an online bully silence me online as a result though, nor am I going to hide behind the net's anonymity. That's just letting the terrorists win. :)

[rainslacker]

And when you had to deal with the police, did you think that whatever group that person harassing you was associated with was to blame for his actions? Did you ask the police to investigate that group, or go out of your way to try and shame that group out of existence or post on some forum or tell anyone who would listen that that group was made up of a bunch of loser a**holes, or go out of your way to antagonize that bunch of loser a**holes to get a rise out of them?

I'm pretty sure you didn't, because you are generally a pretty reasonable guy.

Yet, despite you not being a target of "GG Harassment"(to my knowledge), you have readily blamed GG for being a movement about hate and harassment and misogyny.

Why is that?

How is your own experience with harassment different than those claiming to be harassed by GG supporters(in relation to above)?

A personal story.

A friend of mine was being harassed online by another person to the point it was actually scary. She avoided social networks like the plague, and she never used her real name on the internet. The guy found her, and she ended up in the hospital despite doing everything she could to avoid the guy online. He found her within three days of their last communication of her telling him to F off. If she had used her real name, if she had ever even given it to him, he would have been able to find her within minutes.

It's fine if you choose to put your personal information out there. That's really on you. But never should the anonymity of the internet go away because the safety concerns to the vast majority far outweigh the concerns of idiot trolls. That reason alone, despite the many other reasons, is why I believe what I do.

My opinions aren't an issue for me, disregarding being able to keep a job as a game developer because I like to express my opinions as a gamer and consumer and have actively called out people in the industry i may one day work for, my issue is that I can't control what others do on the internet. I can't control if they will come after me, or if they will feel offended by something I say despite me not meaning to be offensive. I also can't control what the ramifications of me expressing my opinion will be. I am perfectly willing to take ownership of my opinions, but beyond how I feel about them and how I express them, I have no control over what happens to them after I hit that Add reply button. The problem isn't that I don't take ownership of my opinion, it's that others try to take ownership of it in a harmful way to serve their own purpose.

[AKissFromDaddy]

"Everyone who supports this... please start by creating N4G accounts under your real name and photo. I'll wait.. still waiting.."

I just did. Sorta. I changed my avatar to my real picture. However, I don't want to lose my alias as AKissFromDaddy, nonetheless, my real name, which is Dixon Francois Jr., is on my profile bio and it's been there for years actually. Plus, my YouTube (with videos of face, lol) and Twitter account are there too. Well this is my last bubble, so I won't be able to comment afterwards but I'll write this.

The veil of anonymity has brought the lowest common denominators of human interaction(s) online and it serves no one but the hateful, the cowardly, and the tormentors the most. It's not worth it in the slightest, as it drags and even the most innocent person into hating.

Problems can't exist unless a solution also exist, and the solution to trolls, offense speech, hate speech, and promoting civility is the annihilation of the online veil of anonymity.

Being held liable for your speech is NOT being silenced.
Being held liable for your speech is being visible.
Only the trolls, racists, and spiteful want to be invisible.

That's my opinion and I'm hopeful I didn't offend you. Kudos.

[00]

you must be really naive or stupid, there was a reason why years ago people where told to be careful about putting your real info on the internet because people can do bad things to you and unlike you they have the protection of anonymity to get away with it or ruin your life before they get caught.

I swear this twitter and facebook stuff has made people narcissists with the need to plaster their faces all over the things they say without thinking about safety on the internet.