Guillemot on Ubisoft Open World Mechanics: Zelda and Horizon: Zero Dawn Borrowed from Us

Mechanics from Ubisoft open world games can be found in highly acclaimed titles like Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Horizon: Zero Dawn, said Yves Guillemot.

He also explained Ubisoft's recent focus on multiplayer games as a response to what customers want nowadays.

[Aurenar]

I do agree that Ubisoft tends to get too much flack for this, but then again their games are usually still rough when they ship. We'll see what happens with Origins.

[princejb134]

To bad Ubisoft open world games are repetitive af. They start out good than 3 hours in I'm like " didn't I play a mission just like this one not to long ago"

[Eonjay]

Agreed. If they feel so strongly about what was borrowed from them, they should borrow back the things that made Sony and Nintendo games better.

[InMyOpinion]

Watch dogs 2 is their crown jewel though. It has an amazing open world with tons of secrets and diverse activities.

[zerocarnage]

Yet in every game some where along the line there's repeating if some kind, but what the hell let's all just focus in Ubisoft for it lol.

[nveenio]

If Ubisoft open world games were half as good as Zelda and Zero Dawn, I'd buy more Ubisoft games.

[Seraphim]

that's exactly it. They do a great job for the most part but when it comes to filler it's repetition is killer. They really need to create a larger variety of objectives and missions instead of having us doing the same stuff over and over again.

[NewMonday]

because the rest of the game is the exact same as those 3 hours, over and over and over.. didn't play a Ubisoft game since FC3 because of this $#!t

[Sono421]

hmm... I don't remember my guns breaking after killing 3 enemies? What are they talking about?

[naruga]

what a liar ... lame Ubisoft stole everyone else in order to make made AC origins and its previous games ....completely copy pasted MGSV and made Ghost recon, and AC origins , Bloodborne -Zelda combat was ripped off for AC origins, AC copied all its good elements from any MMORPG out there ..Watch Dogs1,2 were just a expensive well budged GTA clones

[Pandamobile]

Every game that is made is an evolution of games that came before it. Calling them copy pasted from MGS5, GTA, etc is a bit disingenuous. Splinter Cell defined the stealth genre as much as early MGS games did, and Watch Dogs is a spin off of the Driver series which was GTA before GTA.

[zerocarnage]

Your off yeh head dude..

[DarXyde]

I would argue both took more inspiration from The Witcher than anything Ubisoft made.

[cabbitwithscissors]

What's horrible is that EA gimps their games in content and basically nickle and dime gamers, but Ubisoft gimps their games' gameplay and content and game mechanics...which is worse, I'm guessing both are and both deserve to be castigated for it.

[ccgr]

Games borrow from each other all of the time. Imitation is a form of flattery.

[Deep-throat]

He's right. But Zelda did it better... Horizon Zero Dawn copied almost everything from Ubisoft games and the new Tomb Raider...

Horizon ZD = Ubisoft games simulator

[UCForce]

Yup, you completely hate Sony in every turns. Horizon Zero Dawn do borrow some Ubisoft games but HZD have Witcher 3 inspiration especially the quest design. I don't care what you said because I'm not convinced by your predictable and evasive attitude. The gameplay in HZD is great. Sure, Human AI isn't that smart, but the AI machine is the main spotlight.

Edit : Sure, you can try to convinced and respond. Sometimes you are right, but most of time you are miscalculated.

[Deep-throat]

I don't hate Sony bro. I know you're loyal to Sony (which is ridiculous btw) but come on guys, you are so overly sensitive here. I rarely post comments in Sony related news...

As for HZD, I've been saying the very same thing when the game came out, but some of you here mocked me and accused me of trolling. And no, the AI machine wasn't even decent.

[JackBNimble]

Lol at Deep-throat calling anyone a loyalist ... smh

[bluefox755]

@Deep I'm inclined to agree with Jack, you pretending like you're not an extreme loyalist is laughable, everyone here knows differently.

[Relientk77]

Deep-Trolling can you give it a rest, geez

We know you're anti-Sony

[thorstein]

This is why I miss bubbles!

[Liqu1d]

An ignore user feature would fix a lot of problems with this site.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

@Liqu1d
YES!
That is something that even Facebook and Twitter have; it should be so simple to have an option to mute individual posts from specific users.
It hurts no one and solves a lot of needless quarrels and bickering on this site.
Oh, wait... N4G doesn't care how it gets its clicks so long as it gets them.
Should have remembered that from the off...

[bluefox755]

@Liqu1d Right? They can change the bubble system, it seems like implementing an ignore feature would be way easier. Could ignore all of the "loyalists" that have zero self awareness to the point that they shamelessly call others the same. I mean, do these guys think we don't know? We see them post everyday, lol.

[cabbitwithscissors]

A flag system would be better in my opinion. The worse the trolling the redder it becomes, and the opposite would be on the other end of the spectrum, but knowing N4g-gers all of us would be red branded. :)

[guyman]

Good lord just shut up

[Clown_Syndr0me]

Now you mention it I see the similarities but Horizon Zero Dawn was much better.

You may not be a PS Fan but guess what neither am I, I primarily play Xbox and rarely touch my PS but Horizon is still one of if not the best single player title I've played this year.

[Alexious]

I don't know about that. Horizon is a great game, it doesn't have huge innovations but it is better than the usual "Ubisoft open world game". Though I'm hyped for the new Assassin's Creed!

[rainslacker]

I don't believe that every game has to innovate something in some way....although I'd argue that the enemy AI in the game is quite robust in many aspects.

What's important is how well it's all put together, and I think that's where Horizon shines. There are aspects of the dialogue system, and IMO sometimes some of the ancillary story is delivered in a dry way, but beyond that, the game is exceptionally well crafted. It has a nice lore, interesting looks at tribalism, great metaphors about hatred, mystery, action, and the main story along with many of the side stories are quite compelling. More importantly, outside the fetch type quests, most of the quests actually have some relevance to the sub-story arcs that exist in the game.

[UCForce]

AI Machines are challenging. It's just that you don't see full potential on them. About you post comment on Sony rarely, I don't think so because you often post comments on Sony. And you still have that low reputation, so yes you deserve to get disagree for good reason. About me being PlayStation Loyalist, PlayStation changed my life ever since the first PS, so yeah I stay with them, but I'm not cocky and hypothetical and crazy like other. GG took a risk to leave comfort zone and tried something new for once and they did it. You just want GG to crawl back to do same thing over again. Don't get me wrong, I love Killzone series, but I prefer people to take risk by leaving comfort zone. And please, don't lie to me, you very hate Sony.

[TheColbertinator]

Excellent work,Deepthroat.

The truth shall set them free

[UCForce]

Nope. Poorly executed from @DeepThoart. Just like you.
You know It's funny that both of you want Sony gone which is low.

[guyman]

Nothing but pure bullshit

[rainslacker]

I suppose it would.

Now he just has to present some actual truth.

[DVAcme]

Show me an open-world UbiSoft game with combat anywhere near as polished and intense as HZD's and we'll talk.

[uptownsoul]

I love how Guerrilla did better in their 1st try than Ubisoft has done in almost the past decade

[rainslacker]

You find a lot of joy when someone gives you a new console war argument to make aren't you?

Ever able to come up with something on your own without someone else planting the seed in your head?

[InTheLab]

How did Zelda make tower scaling Better?

[RedDevils]

Deep-throat should swallow a big shit through his throat.

[Dark_Knightmare2]

Dude people look at your name and just move on. You're the biggest troll and fanboy on here beside moldybread and your opinion is worth crap

[Dark_Knightmare2]

Hold up lol you just said down below you rarely post in Sony articles you can't be serious bro. You're delusional saying that you might need some professional help because you come off as living in some fantasy world where you don't troll Sony at every opportunity and people don't call you out. Get help bro seriously and quit defending pieces of plastic

[frostypants]

Well that was a stupid comment...

Yeah, Horizon is just like Tomb Raider, because...er...female? They play nothing alike. You are delusional.

[Davidgr2]

It goes to show that you have never played Horizon Zero Dawn. Just 'cause both are female and use a bow doesn't make it the same. Ubisoft open world games are good, but they are very repetitive.

[trooper_]

Anything to attack Sony, huh?

[DarXyde]

Don't you ever get tired of trolling? Serious question. You consistently troll, writing anti-Sony nonsense that has no basis in reality. Explain yourself: how exactly does Horizon Zero Dawn copy "almost everything from UbiSoft games"? C'mon, get specific. Draw the parallels. Don't be shy. Tell us what's copied. You say it copied "almost everything". Surely, you can come up with a comprehensive list.

Now what exactly is copied from Tomb Raider? The bow? The crafting system? Because crafting has never in its long history been done before Tomb Raider? You might have a point...

That is, if you conveniently ignore any of The Witcher games (Gwent withstanding), Runescape, The Last of Us (released 2 months later, so no, they didn't do any last minute additions to the game), Resident Evil Outbreak of all things, Kingdom Hearts, Fallout 3, Dead Space, BioShock, etc., and so on, ad nauseum. I've been using bows as a main weapon since Turok Evolution, and that's just what I recall immediately.

...but no, you're right. Horizon totally ripped off UbiSoft games and Tomb Raider.

Horizon is most like The Witcher--it does, after all, have people who worked on The Witcher. So we're not going to say The Witcher copied UbiSoft games? I wonder why....

Put a little more soul into it. I'd say you can do better, but you've yet to show anything creative or even based in reality. This site sure does attract some interesting people, for lack of a better word anyway.

[TheKingKratos]

You have Microsoft Deep in your Throat.

[DarXyde]

I don't know about that.

Microsoft fanboy? Hard to say.

Anti- Sony? Definitely.

That, or they just do it for the reactions. If so, that's even worse and I almost feel sorry for them.

Almost.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

True, its the way it is.You can tell Some of BOTW is prevalent in the new AC as well.

[Eonjay]

This.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

Ironically, BotW did things so well that the director behind FF15 wants to take notes to make the next big FF more like BotW, which is cool in my book so long as the story is great too. [BotW had a good story, but there just wasn't enough of it compared to the usual Zelda game, so I hope the next FF doesn't do that and adds plenty of story to the mix too.]

[mafiahajeri]

Borrowed and made funner games.

[-Foxtrot]

Yeah but the thing is they expand and refine...you guys literally do the same thing, with almost every open world game you make. That's the difference.

If GG made a new IP and it was exactly the same in open world gameplay as Horizon then they#d be just as bad but at the minute their two franchises are completely different.

[Gh05t]

Did you read the article? I know the headline is gripping but the quotes from him are both humble and honest. He literally said that BotW borrowed a concept and executed it perfectly. He also said that all developers borrow and try to refine and make better aspects of games and improve on them.

At no point was the comment meant to be negative.

[-Foxtrot]

I like your so focused on me yet Deep Throats comment above....

[Theknightofnights]

Foxtrot, Guillemot is literally stating exactly what you are. He isn't saying Horizon and Zelda copied them 1:1. He is saying that they both used similar systems that Ubisoft is known for, but perfected them.

[rainslacker]

naaa....now they have hawk vision....like Bran does in Game of Thrones. Ubi thought of it first though I suppose....although I think the first time I saw this was in WOW with the Eye of Kilrogg.

[senorfartcushion]

How much does the new ac borrow from Zelda and The Witcher?

No offense to Ubisoft but for all of the attempts in making an open world game, they've never developed a world that is as innovative and polished as BotW's world.

[DarkOcelet]

Actually, Ubisoft makes amazing worlds in my opinion. Their downfall is how the fill it with crap content. If only Ubisoft can get their shit together and make some decent content to fill their worlds with then they would be one of the best developers out there.

Am hopeful that AC Origins would be a start of something great for both Ubisoft and the franchise.

[The 10th Rider]

Yeah, the content absolutely kills my interest in Assassin's Creed sadly. The worlds always look so interesting and are generally pretty lively but it never looks like there's many fun things to do.

[senorfartcushion]

It is your opinion, don't start the sentence with "actually."

[Gh05t]

If you had read the article you would know this wasn't a dig at anyone and he clearly says that developers borrow ideas from each other when they see good ideas and try to make them better.

[senorfartcushion]

This is a dig at them.

[rainslacker]

I like Ubisoft's worlds for the most part. Content is often lacking though...or at least very repetitive, and game play execution is usually more narrowly focused as opposed to having more variety of ways to play or handle situations compared to Horizon. I also believe horizon was more fun to play than any Ubisoft game, because the only intensity that comes from any Ubi seems to come from just throwing a bunch of stuff at you, as opposed to actually making challenging in it's own way opponents. Can't speak on BOTW on this aspect yet since I haven't played it enough to make that call.

[senorfartcushion]

I liked BotW the most. I even played Horizon before BotW and stopped playing Horizon, because Zelda was so much better to play for me.

I liked the difficulty, the enemy types, the feedback from the combat and how innovative and alive the world was.

With Horizon, I never felt any feedback from the combat, the camera liked to go its own way and it felt incredibly derivative. I defo would have enjoyed it if I was playing it on its own, i did before Zelda came out, but it really did feel like a game defeating a game within my house.

Not felt like that since playing CoD 4 for the first time.

I played Zelda this morning, still to this day am still enjoying it. Defo my GotY

I usually play most of the Ubisoft games. I had Watch Dogs on ps4 and loved that. Haven't bought a ubi game since Syndicate, though. Watch_Dogs 2 just looked irritating. Playing with weird hipster vegan douchebags. Fashion hackers, eugh.

It's a good time for gaming, if you ignore the microtransactions and fanboy crap.

[rainslacker]

I Still haven't played enough of BOTW to form a conclusion. I've played it for a bit on my friends Switch, but obviously since I can't play for an extended period, I didn't get too far. While what i played was good, and I did play enough to form a preliminary opinion that it seems solid, I can't speak beyond that.

I'm not sure what you mean about the derivative aspect of the camera. I didn't like how your view could be blocked by the ground when you were trying to aim up, or moving backwards in some cases. Beyond that, it seemed OK to me, and otherwise practical beyond the aforementioned problem. Otherwise, I felt it was a fairly standard 3rd person follow cam, with the ability to aim when necessary.

Anyhow, While I can speak praise for Horizon, I can tell that BOTW seems to also be a very good game, and look forward to playing it to completion when I get my Switch. Decided not to try and get my WiiU back from a family member to play it, because their kid is still playing it.:)

[InTheLab]

How? What does Zelda do in an open world that's better?

[Imalwaysright]

What pretty much no open world game does: focus on the world itself and how it reacts to your actions in a somewhat realistic way and how Link's interactions are also affected by the world itself.

[senorfartcushion]

- You can climb any surface, this feature has changed games forever
- the world feels alive in a way that is similar to something like a Rockstar game. It is vast and terrifying. The enemies range and the difficulty curve is natural as the difficulty is shown through both size and colour
-the open structure of the game lets you tackle any mission, even the final mission. It isn't about building your skills up, so much as it is about building up your confidence to tackle the final battle.
-the characters are well designed and iconic, as is the music and sound effects
-the combat is satisfying, slow mo is used to great effect
-the missions and side missions are meaningful. There is only one mission that feels a bit grabby
- the shrines are a great way of opening puzzle sections while keeping the flow of the game
-Link is more charming, like The Wind Waker version. Zelda is a newer, stronger kind, like Merlin to Arthur.
-The environment tells a story and the enviromental effects are both dangerous and useful.
-cooking, hunting and surviving i.e. braving the cold/heat is actually fun
-there are little easter eggs and bits of fan service that help excite. There is always a story to tell to someone after playing.

For example: I stumbled across a Guardian fighting a giant cyclops-like creature called a Hinox. I watched the battle, killed the victor and then turned to see a flying dragon scrape across the sky.

You don't need to appreciate Zelda to appreciate that level of game design.

If you're a Dark Souls player, you will understand. It feels like Dark Souls with the structure of Skyrim, but with an iconic lore. It is also developed by the best devs on the planet, the devs who popularised gaming as a whole.

-weapon damage is annoying but that's about it, Ganon is a bit odd, it actually feels like a remake of the first game.

[InTheLab]

Senor.....

I've seen all of that in Skyrim minus the climbing and you can't do it in shrines. The way the world is affected by the player is in multiple open world games. Again see Eldor scrolls. Random fights between AI has been in open world games for over a decade.

The climbing I've seen In Spiderman games from 2001.

This game is nothing like Souls by the way. The lore isn't iconic in any way. The way the story is told is low effort like all Nintendo games that are no Zenoblade....

The music...particularly gaurdian fights are beyond annoying.

Really, I just asked how this game does open world better than any other game and all I see is, "I like it better"...

[guyman]

That awkward moment when horizon and zelda is miles better than any piece of crap ubisoft has released.

[SarcasticDuck]

but are those games better than the non pieces of crap Ubisoft released?

[RedDevils]

What do you thing? Has any Ubi games highly rate than Zelda? or Horizon?

[SarcasticDuck]

@RedDevils ratings mean sh*t. Quality is subjective to each one's opinion and for me Black Flag is still one of my top 10 games!

[Imalwaysright]

I still think that FC3 is an awesome game.

[TheOptimist]

Of course, I already called HZD a Ubisoft trademark step by step template game design wise.

[Aloren]

I played HZD right after I played far cry primal and it did feel really similar on many points.

[rainslacker]

Well then.....f you already called it that, then it must be true.

[senorfartcushion]

I found it similar to Shadow of Mordor myself.

The one thing that us apparent about that game is that it is incredibly derivative.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Thank God they didn't borrow the annual release schedule.

[inmusicutrust]

But Ubisoft copied Rockstar who I'm sure copied someone else.

[rainslacker]

Open world was not uncommon in PC RPG's before GTA even existed. Maybe not always as big, but they were there. For the most part though, their design wasn't unlike the basics of what makes an open world game today.

[NickAwesome]

Too many games are copying ubisoft games, this trend worries me, they should copy the old rockstar (before gta online) instead of ubisoft

[DVAcme]

The only-open world UbiSoft series I still follow is Far Cry. Far Cry 3 is still to me one of the best open-world games ever made, and Far Cry 5's setting and story looks compelling as all hell.

[KTF26]

The difference is they give the developers time to complete the game and you don't
even if you give them the time you might ruin their work with bad business decision and For Honor is good example

[Angel911]

There is no denying that both Zelda and HZD uses lot of same mechanics that were introduced in AC and Farcry games.

That Zelda and HZD are better than Ubisoft open world games coz gameplay is fun and rewarding in both games. Mechanics in Ubisoft open world games are good but gameplay is very clunky and boring.. Ubisoft needs to nail gameplay in their games..

Hopefully ACO will improve on gameplay..So far it looks quite good

[Servbot41]

Breath of the Wild improved so much over the typical Ubisoft formula its going to be hard to ever go back to climbing only the marked ledges.

[Muadiib]

I think that was the only innovation that I hope many others borrow. I found BotW rather sterile and paste/copy boring overall, but now that I've played it I expect all games of that ilk to let me do the same, games like WoW are even more insufferably archaic in comparison, anyone that's played WoW's last two expansions knows what I'm talking about, navigating their maze like zones is a nightmare, I played 2 months of Legion and won't ever be going back, it's that bad.

Mind you Nintendo borrowed the climbing mechanics from Dragon's Dogma and just expanded on it.

I guess my ideal game has BotW's/DD climbing mechanics and the formers gliding, the overworld and writing of the Arkham series and everything else from the Souls series.

[ShinRon]

Because ubi was using it wrong

[StormLegend]

HZD, BOTW>>>> Anything Ubisoft has made and it's nothing like Tomb raider either. I don't see the comparison! AC Origins doesn't play like them or even look similar.

[rainslacker]

The only similarity that I see between HZD/BOTW and Tomb Raider/AC:O is that there is a bow in all of them. Horizon had a lot you could do with that bow, BOTW has a very nice bow system, and TR and any ubi bow I've used is rather generic in actual implementations. Design wise, sure, they're all open world, but ubi didn't invent that, nor do I believe they have actually brought anything to open world to be able to claim that others are taking from them. older GTA or any number of older PC RPG's had many of these same design principals before Ubisoft even existed

I mean, we give credit to Ubisoft and say that Horizon used their tower mechanics? Like Ubisoft invented the jump/climb system for games? Sure....OK.

I do like a lot of ubisoft games, and I do recognize that their more talented developers can improve, refine, and even innovate, but the points being brought up in this article are not Ubisoft creations. Just because Ubisoft used them doesn't mean that they were borrowed from Ubisoft, they were more likely borrowed from the more well established game mechanics that existed in gaming for decades now, some before ubisoft existed, or before anyone knew who they were(pre Rayman 1 times).

[senorfartcushion]

How many of those mechanics were in older Zelda games, though?

[Imalwaysright]

The style of platforming that we see in TR/Uncharted/Horizon has its origins in Prince of Persia warrior within which was an Ubisoft game.

[zerocarnage]

I must admit ubi are one of my fav publishers out there, so yeah I do enjoy there games a little more than most others on the market.

Could they do better with there games, sure like every other publisher and dev could do too.

I do think though compared to most devs, ubi are not just in it for the money. The division seems to be still going strong and with the new update round corner and changes to the DZ, I may even find myself playing again.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

I dunno about anyone else here, but I don't see anything wrong with borrowing mechanics that work and make sense for a particular game.
I mean, so long as there are a few changes to make it unique or interesting, or at the least to match the world the mechanic is taking place in.

[rainslacker]

There is nothing wrong with it. It is the very essence of game design to do such a thing, and has been for a long time. It's how things improve, because everyone can focus on different things, and bring new things to the table with their own insight.

[SarcasticDuck]

I think Zelda and HZD should return those mechanics then, because your games s*ck @ss lately, Ubi!

[NecoTehSergal]

Forgot Ubisoft totally invented Open World games and Open World mechanics....oh wait.

[frostypants]

Maybe. But they are also both superior games to anything Ubisoft has done (which is not to say Ubisoft games aren't solid).

[ShadowWolf712]

You mean they took what you routinely screw up and made it tolerable or even fun? And more importantly: functional?

[CandarianGaming]

Ubisoft is like a fart. It's funny til it's stinks

[bluefox755]

The problem is, Ubisoft has been using the same open world formula for years, while barely updating it. Other games may have been influenced by the concept of "open world", obviously, but at least they updated and refreshed it.

[mogwaii]

And? They were far better games.

[flappo]

the guy's deluded

[theshredded]

It's true and that's why i don't buy games like that since they're repetitive af but at least those games are clearly better than what Ubisoft has to offer

[About30Ninjas]

Ubisoft borrowed from Rockstar and you don't hear Rockstar bitching about it

[mike32UK]

Horizon is better than any open world game that Ubisoft has released in many years IMO

[P_Bomb]

Meh, you play as much and for as long as I have, you see influence everywhere. Same as music, film, whatever. No harm no foul.

[Zabatsu]

Yeah because they didn't borrow their openworld from Rockstar, no not at all.

[Gwiz]

Not just borrowed they both improved it.(minus the climbing)

[LoveSpuds]

I personally really enjoy Ubisoft's titles and think that Watchdogs 2 was a pretty fantastic game with a great world to explore with just the right tonal balance of fun and gritty plot and characters. I think the problem with Ubisoft is that too many of their different series share the same mechanics so the repetition is way more noticeable.

If the Ubisoft openworld 'template' was only used in the Assassins Creed titles for example, I think people would be less burnt out on the Ubi open world mechanics however, when those same mechanics are found in every series they publish it becomes very tired very quickly.

I still enjoy Ubisoft games a great deal personally and am very excited for Origins and Southpark next month.

[Moe-Gunz]

The problem is UBI open world games lacks focus. It become repetitive and I don't really care what's happening. On the flip side, Horizon was focused and the story was told well and still have you freedom.

[Muadiib]

The only series of games made in that style that I like is the Arkham series (and to a lesser degree Shadow of Mordor), I know they took a bunch from Ubisoft and vice versa, Rocksteady made them much more fun though. The rest just bore me to tears (including the overrated BotW). Never tried Horizon though, but that looks like a prettier version of all of those games (well AK is a more impressive game imho), it's just pasted and copied the same old formula and people lap it up.

[opinionated]

And Ubisoft borrowed them from somebody else. Welcome to the basic progression of things.

[windblowsagain]

Ubishit.

[Mithan]

So? Every game is an evolution of previous games.
I've been gaming since Atari 2600 days and it is pretty obvious.

Nobody cares.

[Cartman55125]

"And we borrowed from GTA, Infamous, Super Mario 64..."

[il-JumperMT]

Aprils Fool?

[Zeke68]

And Ubisoft borrowed from Sony and Nintendo before that to make Assassin's Creed and other games.
This is just like Trump's / Russian troll-comments lately. Not true in other words !!

[C-H-E-F]

The problem is, UBISOFT has great ideas but fail at execution. I'm sure Rockstar could take Watch Dogs and make it some epic journey.