Soon after the launch of the Xbox 360 in 2005, some customers found their console unusable. The console's way of telling people something very bad had happened was by displaying three flashing red lights, what was dubbed the "Red Ring of Death".
It feels like the video game console is at a crossroads. With Xbox Series X and S floundering in the ‘console war’, Sony suggesting PlayStation 5 is approaching the second half of its life after missing sales targets, and uncertainty around the release of the Nintendo Switch 2, there is growing concern that the traditional video game console business could be under threat.
It's obvious that MS is leaving the console biz. MS may have tons of money, but that doesn't mean they want to keep losing money on the gaming division to prove a point. Thanks Phil
It's likely but not entirely obvious. The messaging is leaving a lot open to interpretation, and they haven't forked over their crown jewels to PS just yet.
It's POSSIBLE that the upcoming Xbox exclusives do so well they see an uptick in console sales and... change their mind??
I feel like it's way too late in the console cycle for that, by the time some of them are out we are 1 year further. I think a better bet is to maybe make them with next gen in mind and make them cross gen between this and the next as to give their next console a great launch if the games turn out well. I feel that's their best bet to stay in the console business.
You should pray they don't exit. If they do, you will see the collapse of the gaming industry.
Here we go again with that false sense of relevancy for the xbox platform.
I told you yesterday that the gaming industry was fine before MS entered the space and it will continue to do even better when they're finally gone. MS is/are not the ones keeping this industry healthy, far from it and most won't even bat an eye if they're gone.
...And Having lots of money doesn't mean success it just means you can keep failing for a long time.
They will just leave room for another competitor. Maybe someone who is more succesful at competing.
Nah. We might see some real competition again. Maybe from a company that actually loves gaming. Like Sega.
Ridiculous. Acting like MS are the linchpin holding everything down and if they let go, then gaming will be ruined and prices will soar astronomically and creativity will be stifled and thwarted at every turn. It's a fallacy. I'm not saying it's preferrable to have MS out of the console space, but I am saying that all this fearmongering over what will happen if MS were to bow out is overexaggerated and overblown.
Collapse? It was here before Xbox and it'll be here long after. What exactly do they do to benefit it? Barely any game output, theyve taken studios and made them worse and they've hurt it trying to make everyone move to streaming.
Haha.
I'm actually laughing in real life at that
Why exactly?
What are Microsoft contributing to the industry that will be missed?
They're just taking a slot that should belong to someone better.
My vote is for Valve and a Steambox.
Since you guys clearly don't understand how this all works, I won't explain it to you. You guys will simply see it if it happens, then you'll quietly sit there acting like you saw it coming.
But you can research what Pachter and the other analysts have stated...
🤷
If anything, Xbox leaving the industry is actually what will save it and make it thrive. They don't contribute anything good to the industry and if anything, any bad practices today, they're the ones responsible.
Take a time machine, go back in the past and erase Xbox from existence, you'd come back to a present where the industry is much better. Remove Sony and/or Nintendo though, there is likely not going to be anything left.
@Aloy
With competition sony has failed to deliver a diverse generation. Has shifted focus to Gaas, has put the support of their vr platform into the hands of PC, has jacked up the price of their service, is moving you into day and date on PC... Be careful what you close your eyes to. If you wish for MS to be gone, sony is heading in the same direction with less funding
@theenigma
The same can be said if not worst about Sony. Who lose $2 billion of value, lose 26% of there operating income, missed sales goal by 4 million, and has no 1st party games coming out till next year? Console sales are not helping Sony. They are a much smaller company and how long can they afford to lose so much money?
They are not losing money. They make profit. They bring in more then they spend. It's a business thing. Get a grown up to explain it to you.
You know a dropping stock price is not like that actually had to give 2 billion to someone. That didn't sell their shares. And failed to meet sales expectations? Still sold over 20 million in a year. You must be dizzy from all that spin.
Whats crazy is that when some xbox fans were cheering the acquisition of a large part of the multiplatform gaming, they didn’t realize they were cheering on what was to pave the way for xbox to leave console space.
Oh the irony. Karma?
True ^
Yup, they celebrated taking games away from others even though they weren’t getting anything they wouldn’t have got anyway. Now it turns out it was all a plan to end Xbox as a console. Heh 🤦
Exactly right everyone thinks Microsoft is willing to bankroll an underperforming division simply because they can afford it however that's not how these companies operate they might bankroll something for a year or two while not gets established however now is the time they bare expecting a return on the investment and it's clear Xbox is underperforming.
Good article and this is not a duplicate. The link that @Maximus Prime shared is just a small portion of the full interview. This post is the full interview.
Times are changing quick, the same ol way the industry been is changing. Where people play is changing.
“What I think Phil is doing is setting up some smoke signals that we're thinking very differently”
I’m surprised how slowly Microsoft is moving toward Xbox as a software platform. They usually don’t care so much about upsetting their customers with unpopular changes like they do with every other version of Windows.
yeah like they just very recently removed support for Android apps on W11 without much of a warning. simply because they claimed that not many are using them. Sony got a huge flak when removing OtherOS support form the PS3, I think the same should be happening to MS to for removing the apk support. such a dick move!
That is surprising, I know big companies can't move fast, but they're moving at a glacial pace, everything they've done with Xbox for the past decade has been moving at such a slow pace. I suppose they have money to burn with how big the company is.
This "console market hasn't grown narrative " is overblown. The market has grown just not as fast as say smartphones. But so what? There is still money to be made in the business and just because Microsoft has failed doesn't mean the entire industry is facing sudden collapse. Gaming will be fine, every industry has to go through periods of restructuring. AAA games are made becuase its what attracts gamers the most and is where they spend the most money. (Demand/supply) Microsoft abandoning hardware should have happened years ago, they clearly lost interest at a base level in producing games and/or paying 3rd parties to back during the tail end of the 360 generation. Tired of hearing about the future of gaming, just make great games and/or invest in one's made by other to attract people to your platform.
@derek Right! It's so obvious that all Xbox has needed to do is create great first party games like every successful console has done since the original Nintendo. It's not rocket science lol I have lost so much respect for Microsoft over the last 10 years and their rabid fanboys that do not represent their base as a whole. Literally just MAKE Great games and people will invest in your platform. It's not rocket science or excuses. It really is that simple lol
This victim mentality that Phil has instilled this generation has really turned me off the brand for good. Really enjoyed OG Xbox and, while I couldn't wholeheartedly support 360 due to that atrocious failure rate, they had some killer games and services. Ever since Gears of War judgement dropped in 2011 and they shifted completely to Kinect, it's been so bad.
It all started going down hill after Don Matrick stated "stick with the xbox 360 if your don't have any internet.
That man singlehandedly destroyed the xbox brand then jumped ship as it was sinking 😂
Ninver,
Don had the look of a sleazy businessman, but I don't understand why that moment gets a bad rep.
They were super honest in that moment, and I have to say, it sucks that this is the direction the company would take, but it was such a mask off moment that really highlights their plan.
Nowadays, you have Phil, who isn't direct but is very much still going in the same direction.
What it comes down to, at least from my observation, is Don and Phil were/are just the messengers. Don took a dive following the backlash, so they repackaged the messaging approach with a new person to make it seem like the company is taking a new approach. Nothing has really changed.
So I don't think Mattrick did anything that he wasn't asked to do by his own higher-ups.
He's like a landmark really. Just a reference to a point in time when things got bad. In reality, it was Microsoft's vision for Gen 8 going forward that destroyed them, not Mattrick.
That's my read of things, anyway.
Don was honest, Phil is sleazy! don't blame just Don for that downfall, Phil was part of the team back then too. the one announcing the price for the xbone on stage was Phil, remember?
Reminds me of when the Wii U's poor sales led to speculation that consoles are dead. It's so repetitive and annoying.
Some people act like we're all about to switch over to cloud gaming when the internet infrastructure and data caps alone would take decades to accommodate such a change.
Google Stadia was shut down and died a horrific death just 1 year ago. lol
If you are looking to something like the PS2 as the measuring stick... keep in mind that there was a percentage of units sold that were replacements for bad lasers and then you had others buy replacements because of model revisions. I'd venture a guess and say the real market saturation point is somewhere between 125-140m. And yes that includes handhelds because even those have users who invested in different variants over the coarse of their lifetime.
You can't truly use units sold as a measure of individual owners. you are right though, the market has certainly grown from something like the 8/16bit era to today, but nowhere near as quickly or as large as the smartphone/tablet market. You figure there are entire swaths of people who dont play consoles/handhelds but they do play on their phones.
Agreed. I think if you look at the number of concurrent players playing the popular games of the time, it's always breaking records, not decreasing. Sure there are ppl that play on their phones, but a crap ton of kids and adults are sitting down at their computers or consoles to play. Are they all playing the same kinds of games i used to play? not really. But that doesn't mean consoles/computers are going away - they're gonna play games.
It’s grown based on what. What PS console has ever hit 200 million? Even with Xbox doing poorly it’s the same customers who were already going to buy a PS console
@353, Console sales are not the end goal but the gateway they're not the only measure of growth. You sell consoles to sell games and subscriptions to your platform and that has grown substantially since the ps1/ps2 generations. Revenue and profits have grown meaning the business has grown. Sony's concern is with their margins which have shrunk recently (some from the cost of producing a ps5 not decreasing like in past cycles, some from paying off the bungie purchase, some from growing development costs). So they cut jobs and will look to were they can save on development. Not saying that decision will be proven correct but this is a normal but unfortunate part of the business cycle and its happening across tech. You're talking about the addressable market, but as Layden said if you want to attract new people to console gaming then different games will have to be made then your traditional gta, cod, GoW etc that will interest them.
Peter Moore has revealed how the console wars narrative helped foster a competitive spirit at Xbox.
For money.
And because brand loyalty can help you hold onto a market share without actually having anything new to retain said share of the market.
Brand loyalty isn't helping, what's helping them keep market share is Gamepass (yeah I know you either love it or hate it but it's working well for them). They're just trying to do what Valve did with Steam. Games aren't their main focus. A platform for games seems to be their direction now.
We’re talking about the Xbox 360 era, you dodo bird.
Ie, the lead up to the Xbone’s drought. Brand loyalty 100% kept Xbox afloat between the Halo/Gears era and the Game Pass era.
When they promised for a decade that “the games ARE coming”, were they planning Game Pass at the time, or making promises to break (and relying on blind loyalty to tolerate it)?
That era was insane, might be the reason N4G even exists. I still remember Peter Moore would show off tattoos of each exclusive Xbox would steal from Playstation 3. And the N4G community was on fire, each story would get like 300 comments of fanboys fighting each other.
How come that "competitive spirit" never translated into regular production of games? Not even talking quality games just games in general.
There were like 2-3 game droughts during the 360 era alone.
The Xbox OG was a great console. They were hungry, they wanted to break into the industry. The hardware was great. They kept that drive for a while with 360. It started strong, with good games. But they lost their vision and direction and games took a backseat. And they never recovered and have had lacklustre output ever since.
And I can pinpoint the exact moment it happened. E3 2009. The day Kinect was unveiled. It was literally the time Xbox lost their way. That's a long time to be so bad at something and still in it. They hardly realeased a game after that and we thought the next gen launch would be stacked. It wasn't.
XBOne was their worst console for games releases and again we thought the next launch would be stacked. Again it wasn't.
I swear if it wasn't for their Trillions of dollars there's no way they could still exist in this business. Is that a good thing? Should we cheer for a rich kid whose dad bought their way into a team when they can't perform?
Now they want to turn gaming into a bargain basement bin because they can't compete in quality and they can't compete selling games, so they want to starve their completion out or force them to follow suit. They're buying up everything they can to win their war of attrition.
I'm nearly 50, been gaming over 40 years and I think this could be my last gen. I'm glad this is happening now towards the end of my gaming, not the beginning. If I was starting now gaming wouldn't have been as big a part of my life as my was. Just not into the direction it's taking.
They were arrogant.
They may have been hungry, had an apatite, but above all they were arrogant.
Thought that as a major PC company they could easily move into consoles, take the #1 spot from Sony the way they had from Nintendo, then move consoles towards PC. That's where they lost their way; not being focused on consoles in the first place. Kinect, an unfinished add on they intended to make the main system, was just the cherry on top.
Amen. I’ve been saying the same thing to my buds. Feels like I’m aging out of my lifetime favorite hobby. Time to find new things to care about in between the long droughts of high tier titles I remember all 3 major console manufacturers (4 if we’re including Sega) making for us to enjoy. The 3rd party stuff were always the side dishes for me compared to many of the big amazing 1st party IPs we came to know each company for. Sony and Nintendo seem like the only ones truly still running with that torch the best they can.
Typical arrogant head in the sand Microsoft fan response. In case you're too dense to notice I didn't always game on only PlayStation. I was on Xbox from the start. I bought all consoles. Not my fault they are an absentee landlord. Can't provide for the platform they made.
The only good thing you guys can talk about now is gamepass and the only good thing you can say about that is that it's cheap, not that it's good. I don't want cheap, I want good. So no need for Xbox. And I'm not alone. Why does that disturb you?
You're right but, when PS6 rolls around I will likely still get it cause at least someone is still doing games the right way and that should be nurtured.
High quality, high frequency. No gamer can deny that. If you do youre just painting yourself green.
"The only good thing you guys can talk about now is gamepass and the only good thing you can say about that is that it's cheap, not that it's good. I don't want cheap, I want good. So no need for Xbox. And I'm not alone. Why does that disturb you?"
No you got it all mixed up. You were the one complaining about what MS is doing and there direction then you said you were going to quit gaming because of it. Sony's following suit to some extent. Did you not say that? You're just complaining, about things just whine. You said Gamepass isn't good and it's bargain bin games. Any rational person can see that's it's not. You don't gotta shill or fanboy out for gamepass to see that it's generally a good service. Unless you call, Naraka Blade: Blade Point: TMNT As Dusk Falls upcoming high on life plus more bargain bin games. Is Guardians Of The Galaxy Bargain bin game? How bout Redfall and Starfield next year those bargain bin games? Wo Long also? It's a Mix of 3rd and 1st party stuff. Everyone likes Stray and it's a 4 in a half hour game. Luckily that's on the premium because 30$ is hefty for that type of experience. is that bargain now? How bout Sifu? You live in a glass house You speak from inexperience and hate. You need to develop self awareness in the stuff you say and stop speaking from angry emotion. Your not making sense.
"You're right but, when PS6 rolls around I will likely still get it cause at least someone is still doing games the right way and that should be nurtured."
Well you just admit it you weren't going anywhere like I said you weren't. See you not doing nothing.
"doing games the right way." well weren't Sony fans kicking and screaming whenever Sony announces they're putting their games on PC? I'm glad you're finally accepting the reality of things, that Sony isn't your best friend, but a buissness, that's like making money.
Try a PS5. And if you didn’t have a PS4, then they have a great upgraded back catalogue ;)
Because it's easier to smack talk the competition while just pretending you are a legit competitor. That way those who don't know better can pick that side and defend it for 20 years straight, despite still not being given games on a regular basis
To their credit MS has bad mouthed Sony or Nintendo. Just kept insisting that they had the best gaming platform while typically having nothing that really lived up to the claim. Even now it seems the best they can do is buy 3rd parties.
Their fans on the other hand, people some idiot marketing person chose to actively whip up, is a whole other thing sadly.
From GI.biz: "As an executive at Sega, Microsoft, and then Electronic Arts, Peter Moore was unquestionably part of the games industry for the better part of two decades. Then he left for the world of sports and the chance to be CEO of his favorite childhood football team, Liverpool FC.
After three years in which Liverpool enjoyed considerable success and a Premier League championship, Moore stepped down and seemingly returned to games with an executive appointment at Unity and a board position for mobile publisher Nifty Games."
Great read..... I find this behind the scenes/curtain interviews fascinating. This is one of if not the biggest story from last gen and now we are getting a great inside baseball look at what went down.
I had 7 X360s between launch and 2011 each time the machine was away for repair 2-3 weeks. Compared to my launch day PS3, PS2, snes, megadrive, Saturn and Dreamcast I still have to this day.
Strange thing about this interview Microsoft never publically acknowledge the problem, Moore makes it sound like they did.
Really? The possible cause was the lead free solder drying out?
That does make sense. But why were they forced to use this inferior solder across the whole world?
Perhaps manufacturing costs from switching out the solder?
Meanwhile throughout the world MERCURY filled so called 'green' light bulbs are being pumped everywhere.
Europe would rather have a few billion mercury filled lights than a few million xboxes with lead solder.
What about all your millions of lead acid car batteries?
Hypocrites...
You took this info from the interview done by IGN. If off the great interview the only thing you can talk is the only bad thing that was mention. Sad. Yes the RRoD were bad but MS back their product with a 3 years warranty.