Vegrad415 (User)

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HD and Next-Gen. Why are our games still sub-HD?

Vegrad415 | 59d ago
User blog

This is going to be my first post on here, so bear with me and I'll try not to ramble too much.

I've seen many discussions in the past that are full of arguments about resolution this and fps that, but I decided to put this together after reading through a recent post about The Order: 1886. With the next-gen upon us, many people are wondering why we are still seeing resolution and fps numbers reminiscent of last-gen. Considering the rhetoric used and promises made by both Sony and Microsoft, I don't blame anyone for asking. Well, lets disregard whatever was said and break this down a bit.

The main problem with assuming next-gen would be strictly 1080p60 is that we are ignoring the other issues that affect performance. With all else equal, new hardware could easily run last-gen games at 1080p60. But what about wanting higher res textures? Higher polygon count character models? More realistic facial animations? The added horsepower from the new consoles is needed for all of this and more, as well as keeping the game running at a smooth framerate and at HD resolutions.

I recently saw someone make a sarcastic comment about The Order and it's aspect ratio, complaining about it being an "artistic choice." I would say that it actually is. The artistic choice comes from the balance each developer gives it's game. Graphical "prettiness," framerate, and resolution are all competing for a consoles horsepower. Sure, we could take the step up for all new games to run at 1080p60, but we won't see near as much of an increase in the "graphics" of the game. There are some that think this is how it should be, but developers realize that no one category is most important. They won't be able to make a graphically stunning game if all this newly available power is used solely to run their game at at a steady 1080p60.

For those that disagree with this style of game development, I am sorry but I don't think it will change anytime soon. When the generation comes that console gaming reaches 4k video, we will probably have many titles running at less than 4k. We will probably have many titles running at less than 120 or 60 fps (crossing my fingers for a 120fps console "standard!") I personally think this mentality is our fault to begin with. We as consumers are so critical of how our games look, that developers have to give up something from the other two categories to keep the visuals at a level we are happy with. Ultimately, rendering a game at a slightly lower resolution and then upscaling afterwards still gives great results. Many of the so-called 900p games still look great. I feel that developers have really found a sweet spot between resolution, and after-effects such as anti-aliasing to produce a beautiful image.

I hope this post has given all of you a little better sense of this issue. We shouldn't look at it as being an issue of underpowered consoles, but rather as a conscious decision made by the developers of each game as to where they think it best to allocate system resources to make the game they've imagined. I plan on making a post sometime soon going into some more detail on the process of upscaling, and how it isn't really as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Thanks for reading!

isarai  +   57d ago
GOD STFU! when you look at a game, the only thing any level headed gamer should be asking themselves is "does it look like fun?" not "how many pixels are there" or "how many FPS does it get". Seems rather stupid and kind of disrespectful to me, i mean that's like bitching and arguing that an amazing book is shit because the paper it's printed on is not of a certain quality, or that the letters aren't a certain size. I don't even have words with how fed up i am with this whole resolution/FPS shitstorm, why can't we just be glad we're finally getting highly playable stability in games now and a whole new level for games to reach in this new gen. Hell why aren't we rejoicing over the victory we had over online passes and DRM? how about the fact that these are the cheapest next gen consoles to launch ever or that they are some of the easiest to develop for and more open than ever?

We gained so much in this new gen yet all anyone can talk about are two little sets of numbers instead of the games and what they have to offer. The internet as a whole makes me embarrassed to be involved in the gaming community sometimes and i really wish there was at least one place free from fanboys, graphics whores, and trolls. Hell i can't even appreciate a games design anymore without someone barging into the conversations with their "But it isn't TEH TEN EIGHTY PEES!!" or "Doesn't even look as good as this other games bump mapping of random wall" makes me not even want to go anywhere near a gamin related site anymore...
Vegrad415  +   57d ago
Please read my post again. You clearly misinterpreted my stance on this topic.
isarai  +   57d ago
no i understand it fine, i just wish it would stop being brought up period
Bimkoblerutso  +   54d ago
I just feel like people fail to see the advantages of technological advances that are not superficially attractive. The industry needs to get bandwidth and storage figured out before they start moving into bigger and bigger resolutions. We still watch TV in sub-1080p, for god's sake.

And if you think making space on your hard drive is difficult with mostly sub-1080p content...wait until we start getting 4k content.

That's not to say that I don't see or appreciate the difference made by higher resolutions and better framerates, but the entertainment industry just has their technological priorities all screwed up.
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colonel179  +   57d ago
I completely agree with you. Resolution and fps are something that not a lot of people can notice. I worked at a retail store and there were a lot of costumers that didn't even notice anything when showing a TV with 1080p resolution. They just said it looked pretty, and didn't even care.

Developers CHOOSE how they want to present their games. It's their work and they can do whatever it is with it in order to accomplish their vision. I know and am aware about benefits of having 60fps, but you have to be a fool if you believe that it is NEEDED in every single game. Full HD resolution is not needed either. It is good to have, but like stated above, a lot of people don't even notice.

Just like the example of the book. That's exactly what this is. People care much more about what paper the book is printed, what size the letter is, or how many pages the book is, that they forget the most important thing: to enjoy the story.
AceBlazer13  +   56d ago
Ikr? Why the hell even have new hardware? Let's just go back and play on the snes.
DaGR8JIBRALTAR  +   56d ago
IDK...ask microsoft.
Mister_Dawg  +   55d ago
Although I totally agree with you, you could have got your point across in a much less aggressive manner.
TWB  +   57d ago
I dont have anything to add to the main message but IMO, this 8th gen's minimum standard for resolution should be keeping it above 720p and not worry about the FPS. FPS shouldnt really even be standardized.

I feel that consumers have become too aware of the technical parts of the game without knowing jacks shit about them.
Vegrad415  +   57d ago
I completely agree with your second comment. 20 years ago it was a great (but cheesy) marketing tool for the console manufacturers to throw out stuff like 16 bit vs 8 bit with the Super Nintendo, or talk about the era of 3D with the Playstation and Nintendo 64. Although now with the step up to HD I think people expected to keep seeing that kind of gen-after-gen increase, only with resolution numbers now, even though that was never how that marketing was used.

Look at it this way. What do the NES, Master System, SNES, Genesis, N64, Saturn, and PS1 all have in common? Other than a small amount of titles on the later consoles, they all output the same standard definition video! That's 13 years and three generations worth. You could even argue that the PS2, Dreamcast, GC, and Xbox fall into that category as well. But that didn't stop each next console from looking better than the one before it. I just wonder why people today have such a hard time accepting that this is normal.
TWB  +   56d ago
I believe PS2 doubled the resolution compared to PS1 though.

But you forgot to add one thing: the framerate.

Throughout generations all the way from NES to modern era there has been games that have been running at 60 FPS and some that ran 30 FPS. Hell, when we entered 3D era the framerate standards were lowered and most if not all the 3D PS1 games run at 25/30 FPS (PAL/NTSC). Only now with 8th generation people are demanding that if its not 1080p/60FPS, its not "next gen"

Framerate is a measurement, which is why it shouldnt be as pronounced/standardized as other features.

Sure its great if the MP component of a competitive game runs at 60FPS but people shouldnt get too stuck on the FPS controversy.
Chard  +   57d ago
It is slightly annoying that in 2014, whenever a developer announces their game to be "1080p", we often still need to dig deeper in order to find out if they actually mean native or upscaled.
SilentNegotiator  +   57d ago
LOL, yeah, well the trick is easy; if they say "Native 1080p", it's native 1080p. If they don't say "native" it isn't 99% of the time.
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SilentNegotiator  +   57d ago
Simple; the cost of hardware that can do it is not cheap enough to reach the optimal number of users.

People whined about games not being 1080p LAST gen, but that was an absolutely laughable expectation for the time, and only reasonable for some games on $400 hardware today.
kryteris  +   57d ago
I do not see the harm in offering a budget, and a ultra version of the console. The PS4 could have easily included an extra cpu socket for upgrading later, or thrown in an extra chip for crossfire play. No big deal having 2 setting modes. And no big deal in upgrading 1 APU chip every 2-3 years, especially how quickly the gpu sector changes. imho.
Vegrad415  +   56d ago
An interesting idea, but history shows it won't have much of an impact. The N64 and Saturn tried it with expandable ram, but I don't think I would consider those successful attempts.

I don't know much about the Saturn upgrade, but it only had a small amount of games that made use of the ram, something like 25-30 games. The N64 had a handful of great titles that needed the expanded ram, and it sold well because of it, but the total number of games that took advantage of it was too small. It's my opinion that developers just didn't want to take the chance developing for expanded hardware because they didn't want to artificially limit the install base of consoles capable of playing their games, and thus limiting game sales.
kryteris  +   54d ago
I dont recall my Saturn having any upgrades, damn thing was a flop. In fact the 32x was a better upgrade, and more vivid colors. It flopped also but more to blame consumer confusion as the Saturn shortly released months later. Also, we now live in a newest and greatest digital culture, the 90's marketplace was very different, and the rate that technology changes can be literally within months. I dont see a reason to upgrade the ram on the saturn, it had plenty of ram and cpu power by comparison to the ps1. It was lacking a mpeg codec, and few gpu instructions that gave the ps1 a competitive edge.
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Bladesfist  +   56d ago
I kind of expected or hoped the new consoles would match high end PCs like they have done in the past as then that would push the industry forwards a bit faster and just like PC you would see 1080p / 60fps as standard.

It is a negative mark against the consoles for people like me who have a high end PC and are used to playing their games at this standard (which is not exactly new) of fidelity.
SilentNegotiator  +   56d ago
Let's see a $400 PC rig do what PS4 does, though. After the OS (If you're just going to steal the OS, then I can counter-argue that Ps4 is free because I stole one), you're already down to $300 for hardware.
Bladesfist  +   56d ago
What? I am not trying to sell the PC to anyone. I am just saying that it is hard for a pc owner to justify spending another £400 to get a console that does less than there PC at this time.
SilentNegotiator  +   56d ago
I'm just putting things into perspective; PC elitists aren't the target market for consoles. For $400, people interested in more low end gaming hardware aren't going to build a PC for anywhere near that cost with the same capacity.

And there is no "standard" for PC games because rigs vary wildly. You might be used to 1080p60fps on all of your games, but not all PC gamers are.
Wizard_King  +   53d ago
America has some strange prices.

Here is AUS the PS4 actually costs more than the X1 buy 50 bucks, strangely... But yet the X1's sell very poorly still.

So a PS4 cost 900-1000 bucks depending on the retailer and for that price I can build a comparable and an even better gaming PC.

Do parts in the USA compare the same? a Intel 4770K costs like 375 bucks here alone. But an AMD FX-6300 6 Core (very similar to PS4 and X1 CPU but still stronger) is 130 bucks.

The price of a new console is moot here when for the same price I can get to GTX 780's for SLI and crap all over it, see what I'm saying?
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Bladesfist  +   56d ago
"people like me who have a high end PC" I clearly stated that. I am not arguing which is better here. Not sure where all the defensiveness is coming from.
SilentNegotiator  +   56d ago
I only put things into perspective. I'm not sure where the "defensiveness" that you think you're seeing is coming from either.

""people like me who have a high end PC" I clearly stated that"

Which is not the target audience, like I said.
But you also clearly stated that you hoped consoles would "just like PC you would see 1080p / 60fps as standard" like consoles back in the day matched/exceeded PCs in the past.
But hardware isn't like it was in the 90s. Expectations are different. Hardware is streamlined for developers.
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Wizard_King  +   53d ago
There is no need to argue which is better. We all know PC is better, IT IS BETTER, it also cost more and is far less accessible for the masses.

Games are cheaper and better on PC. But over all set up is about 2x more expensive.

and 60FPS has been a gaming standard since the late 80's mate.
Soapboxhero  +   56d ago
I think the source of this huge amount of attention paid to resolution comes from 2 main ideas. First, lack of meeting resolution expectations from last generation. And secondly console disparities. Going into last generation gamers were intrigued by the idea of 1080p gaming and that's what all the e3 demos and press made us believe. After awhile we realized that this was pure fantasy and besides some grumbling about games not even meeting 720p this eventually made its way to the back burner. Come this generation we are presented with the opportunity to fulfill the expectations of the last generation so it hurt even more when it comes across that promises of last generation aren't even being fulfilled in this one. As for the console disparity, in the time of xbox vs ps2 horsepower differences weren't as sizable as the effect of technology differences such as the inclusion of pixel shaders on the xbox. This meant that even had they had similar horsepower the xbox could produce visuals that were fundamentally different than the ps2. Come this generation the architectures of the 2 systems are almost completely identical minus the esram debate and of course the theoretical FLOPS difference. What this means is that the difference from a technological level are the smallest they've ever been, however one console possess a noticeable amount more power behind this tech to drive it forward. With that in mind developer could make both versions run 1080p but would instead have to strip features or lower fidelity which honestly is much harder than say just lowering the resolution. Beforehand when the tech was different between consoles they would need alot of original assets for each console but with that not really being the case anymore, it's really just more feasible to just lower the res. This means that the specifics of resolution are going to be ever more publicized in the media because it's going to be something that will show up on most multiplat games.

Ok I think i made have just used you blog to make my own rant instead of just commenting on what you said yourself.
But yeah, resolution is in everyone's head so that's what we seem to talk about.
Vegrad415  +   56d ago
Ha, it's all good. I'm just looking for some good discussion. If you've got a lot to say, that's cool.

I agree with you about this gen being pretty interesting. On the surface there isn't much separating the two consoles, so everyone will be looking that much closer at the little differences. As much as I wish we all wouldn't nitpick over numbers, there's a whole lot of it coming in the next few years.
Software_Lover  +   56d ago
I just want some games that interest me. This is gonna be another shooter gen on both consoles. I want to get excited like when I saw Mass Effect for the first time. I want that WOW feeling like when I played Jet Moto 2. I want a great adventure like Final Fantasy 8. I want to enjoy a game from beginning to end like I did with Mario Galaxy.

Infamous......... been there done that. Never liked the controls
Titan Fall....... Looks like Battlefield with mechs
Order 1886....... Looks like Gears of War
Forza............ I've played racers since Outrun

The only games I'm currently interested in are Destiny (slightly), and The Division (another f'n shooter).

I just want some new experiences. Can someone make a great platformer other than Mario? Can Bioware get their $h!t together and make Jade Empire 2? Can they stop screwing up the great RPG that was Mass Effect? Can Microsoft push out another Crimson Skies?

I wouldn't care if either of those games were 480p, I just want some good games.
s45gr32  +   56d ago
The Forest
Distance
Among the Sleep
Routine
Darkwood
Day Z
Stomping Lands

Are some unique games coming out along with No Man's Sky.
Wizard_King  +   53d ago
When DayZ makes its way to ANY console I will personally eat my hat and post a video of it here for you to see.

DayZ will never come to console no matter how many hopeful articles tease you to think otherwise, just because Rocket talked to a few people at a few shows means nothing.

IT IS TECHNICALLY NOT POSSIBLE for DayZ in either ARMA2 or AMRA 3 mode to ever run on the "next gen" consoles.

If Rocket and BI go and build anew engine from the ground up just maybe then but it wouldn't be the same game buy a long shot and the current engine has been in development for over a decade, a new engine would be at least 5-7 years off. Seeing as BI has been using and modding the same engine since 2000 and shows absoluteness no signs of new engine development going on this is extremely unlikely.

I have been following this issue with keen interest and I again promise you that it will never happen.

(it took until 2006 to release a scaled back version of Operation Flashpoint on the original Xbox 6 years after it's release in 2000. This in turn played like shit as the OFP and ARMA series classically has every single key bound to something, a controller will never work for DayZ.)
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Vegrad415  +   56d ago
I hear ya. I've been pulling out my older consoles a lot more lately. Other than Mass Effect there haven't been many games in the last 2-3 years I've really enjoyed enough to play again. It's actually kind of sad. Many of the AAA big money titles have loads of polish... and that's pretty much it.
Necro_559   56d ago | Offensive
s45gr32  +   56d ago
PC gaming is starting to get into 4K resolution 1080p 60 frames per second has been the standard for PC gaming since 2005. Deep complex, beautiful games are coming to PC like the forest, day z, and right now you can play Rust. It will be a decade or so for console gaming to get 4K resolution.
iliimaster  +   54d ago
now everything is HD everyone wants HD alot of people now have more HD tvs than ever so people r going to want to get the best they can get and if a company like microsoft is marketing like its the best thing ever for 500$ and seeing that xbox 360 was in HD already and to find out the xb1 isint capable of doing 1080p 60fps is a bad move

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