Sangria (User)

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How N4G is killing itself (and how to fix it)

Sangria | 1755d ago
User blog

Some weeks ago, I wrote a sarcastic article regarding N4G's hidden rules, how the lack of rules in a community can lend to a false rules dictatorship, how a community does whatever it wants because no one wants to stop it. N4G is not the only one to be under such lack of government, but this site is the one I frequent the most currently so I feel concerned when something is wrong.

This time it wont be sarcasm but highlighting several points that potentially kills N4G from the inside. What's the difference with N4G's hidden rules? The difference is that I don't write that article for humor. Here are non exhaustive points of how N4G is killing itself.

  • THE PROBLEMS

- Rewarding financially big contributors:
N4G is a community-oriented website, where everyone can add their content to participate to the community. So originally, rewarding people that contribute the most to the site was a good idea. The problem is that it rewards quantity, not quality. So big contributors or people wanting to be big contributors tend to mostly submit poor garbage. This is partly related to N4G's hidden rules "The more you submit, the more you have chances to get approved". Since a week, the Pending area is saturating with dozen of pending news, and if you do the experience, only the ones on the first page that got some flamebait potential get approved. The other ones, disregard their quality (or lack of quality) are waiting. And meanwhile, those big contributors feel the need to submit their reviews from Italian, Polish or Russian sites of games that released months ago, which creates an even bigger overload of pending news, definitely killing the ones that are waiting since several hours to be approved.

- The lack of moderating activity:

Being against authority may mean a lot of problems, so not many people would openly admit the inefficiency of moderators on N4G. Yes, they are here, yes we sometimes see them in action, but mostly in very active news and only several hours after the bad is done. N4G's comment section is split in two sections, a "Gamer" section and a "fanboy" section. Yet, when you read comments in the Gamer section, you can only be appalled by some comments. Other people mostly hate N4G because of that retarded community. And as far as moderators will be lax, the community wont change.

- Every upcoming news in the same place:
Like said previously, one of the biggest plague of N4G is that every news people submit lend in the same place: the Pending area. It is logical, as they are pending, but the lack of classification makes everything confusing. As said, big contributors tend to submit many crappy reviews of crappy games from crappy sites, which constantly hide real news, articles or analysis. If N4G's pending section was subdivided in News, Articles, Reviews, Images and Videos categories, it would be easier for other contributors to read and approve stories. So far the Pending section is just a place where everyone vomits without distinction of quality, and as approving contributors feel lazy to browse dozen of pages to approve or not news, such behaviors can only be another factor that kills N4G.

- The lack of willing to be an approver:
How can a so much frequented site like N4G can be so much hungry of contributors? Actually, not exactly contributors but approving contributors. Indeed, that overload of pending news I talked about previously is not only due to the flood of angry contributors, but also a clear lack of approver. Approvers are the ones that have the real power in N4G, they decide of the life and death of news and with such power they decide the community's discussions. But so far, approvers are not enough compared to the number of news submitted every day. Its even worst for blog posts, as very few people actually care about it, so you often have tons of pending blog posts that mostly fail to be approved. It's a two-edged sword. On a side you have contributors that submit tons of -sometimes useless- stories, which generates a big amount of news flood in the pending section, and on the other side you have approvers that don't seem to want to approve stories in order to decongest the overload. At this rate, N4G will be even worse, where only very important news will be submitted in N4G, filtering smaller -yet still interesting- news and feeding N4G only with potential flamebait, as much pointless as making a war only with catapults.

- Randomicity:
N4G has a forum, you probably never noticed it but there is one. And this forum, disregard N4G's huge community, is pretty poorly frequented. There are several reasons for this, but one of the main reason is Randomicity. Randomicity is a "Your though of the day" thread, where you can post whatever you want because nobody will actually read you or reply, excepted few ones. Randomicity is a plague similar to "Official help thread" in other forums. A forum is set to welcome various subjects but creating a "whatever subject thread" is purely and simply inciting people to focus on a single thread instead of a forum. As a result, Randomicity is the only very active thread, letting the rest of the forum half-dead. As some forum people are begging for activity, we can see some members profiting of that weakness to submit garbage threads, like "Why carrots are orange" or "bananas help you fight against cancer".

- Real fanboys and false fanboys:
It may be weird to say but you'll understand soon enough. Like said previously, some people profit of the lack of moderating activity to start and feed flamebaits. You have flamebait "journalists" like HipHopGamer, Destructoid, GameThirst or VGArabia that degrade the quality of news, and you have the fanboys that love to speak in propaganda language. Usually, those people talk like that because they believe in what they say, they defend their console of choice as much as possible and blind themselves from the hurting reality. But some other N4G members seem to appreciate to pretend being a hard fanboy so they take real fanboys in their war. People like Bungie or Saaking can be one and only person even though their opinion is radically different. But they put so much effort to be ridiculous in their propaganda it simply cannot be possible they don't do it deliberately. Why would they do that? Just like with BIoodmask. For the fun to make angry real fanboys and start poor flamebaits. With such mentality in the community, no doubt other sites bash N4G for being a pathetic fanboy land.

- Useless report system:
This is directly related to the N4G's hidden rules, as an article, no matter its quality or its content, can be approved even if it has 50 reports. "This console stinks because I say so", even if it get one hundred reports, as long as it gets 10 approvals it's published and can appear on the front page. As a result, some people exploit that weakness in N4G to get approved by their friends in 2 minutes, whatever is the content, generating mostly hard flamebaits. And as flamebaits reveal the worst side of a community, the more there are flamebaits, the more external people will find that community retarded. Usually, moderators delete lame stories several hours they have been published, but this represent less than 10% the number of reported stories that get approved nonetheless.

  • THE SOLUTIONS

- No longer reward quantity over quality:
If you delete the contribution point system, if you stop reward every month the most active contributor or if you reward quality and not quantity (with a quality average, for example), spamming contributors will certainly post far less articles. Yes, it will certainly hurt the post frequency in N4G, but not enough to kill the site and make running away the community.

- Do not authorize non-English-speaking reviews:
If news can still hold its importance, it's not the case for reviews. Eurogamer for example belongs to an European network, with Eurogamer UK, Eurogamer France, Eurogamer Spain, Eurogamer Italy, etc... But is it necessary to submit each Eurogamers' review of a same game? Certainly not. There are hundreds of gaming sites that are already available only in English, it's a fair enough number for reviews, we do not need to eat Google translated reviews that nobody will read (we all know how accurate is an automatic translation, right?).

- Do not authorize reviews of games that released more than one month ago:
Not necessarily one month, it's an arbitrary number I took myself, but at least we should define a time limit in which we can submit reviews of a game. Some contributors seem to appreciate to post Bayonetta, Saboteur or Dark Void reviews whereas they released a bunch of time ago and their reviews are no longer newsworthy.

- Hire moderators. Active moderators:
It's simple. So far we can only note how much trolling we see in the comment section, how many spam threads are created every day on the forums, yet we have to wait several hours to possibly see a moderating action. I don't know how much are N4G's revenues but it wouldn't hurt to see more moderators, and more effective ones. I'm pretty sure there are even some active N4G members that would fulfill the role for free.

- Divide the Pending section by type of story:
Right now every submitted article lands in the Pending section. The site can deal with a hundred news per day and the Pending section becomes quickly a big tote bag. The division of the Pending section in several categories can control the flood and gain in readability. We can separate it in 4 sections for example, the News and Rumors section, the Articles section, the Medias (screenshots, images and trailers) section and the Review and Preview section.

- Kill Randomicity, be tolerant with newly created threads:
It's rather simple, Randomicity is where we talk about anything and it represents the half of the forum activity. I'd even dare to say it prevents some forum members to create threads, and then provide a more perceptible activity on the forum. Closing it and allowing members to create general discussions may not drastically boost the forum activity, but it's certainly not a good thing to keep Randomicity alive.

- Be ruder regarding fanboys, create a "Go to the Open zone" report:
So far many PS3 and Xbox 360 fanboys infest the Gamer Zone, a zone where we're supposed to talk neutrally about video games. The Open Zone only seem to exist for very extreme cases, letting more subtle trolls raging in the Gamer Zone. People showing explicitly a bias and feeding flamebaits should be thrown to the Open Zone, where their place belongs. And to help moderators in such task, we should be able to report comments to suggest the member to be banned from the Gamer Zone.

- A veto must exist:
Flamebait articles are constantly making the front page disregard how they violate the rules, and most of the time no moderator feels the need to intervene. High-ranked contributors should be able to prevent the approval of an article with a veto system. To avoid abuses, we may for example fix rules to have access to the veto (like seniority, number of articles approved, number of bubbles,...) and only give a limited amount of vetos per month for each high-ranked member.

- Create a blacklist for low quality websites:
Some sites use the N4G community to gain hits, and for this the best thing is to start flamebaits or to show boobs even if it's not related in any way to video games. Those sites feed the trolls in the comment sections and softly corrupt the community with their garbage. So there should be a blacklist to prevent those sites to be submitted on N4G, like Loot-Ninja and its weekly cosplay spam or GameThirst, formerly a poor N4G member blog that received a domain name to look more legitimate. I know HipHopGamer can afford to change his submissions to follow a more quality feedback so I won't blame him, and GamesRadar's quality increased few months ago, but other sites still need to be banned from here.

- Create a Reply option to reports and make anonymous the reports:
When someone reports your story but you think he's wrong, you have three options: either you report your own story as an answer to the report and explain why the previous report is wrong, either you wait for the approval of your article disregard the report (which once again proves the inefficiency of the report system), either you send a PM to the guy that reported it to explain why he's wrong. In any way, that system is weak and should be reinforced. There should be a way to reply to the report directly through the report system, without being counted as a report and automatically sending a notification to the one who reported it. And if this is done, reports should be rendered anonymous in order to prevent "personal revenges" from people that got reported.

- Force contributors to approve stories:

Yes, force them. There are many contributors on N4G, yet we still have 10 to 15 pages of pending stories that still need to be approved. Contributors don't seem to feel the need to approve stories, they submit and submit all over again and wait to be approved. We should force them to approve, for example blaming them if they don't fulfill a certain approval quota, this quota increasing with the contributor rank. A basic contributor should for example approve 10 stories a week while contributors with a higher rank should approve 25 stories a week. If he doesn't, either he temporarily loses his contribution privilege, either his contributor rank decreases and he loses his contribution importance. It's certainly a big measure but it is necessary if we don't want the Pending section to struggle in a constant flood.

DeviateFish  +   1757d ago
I actually like reading reviews of older-than-just-released games.
Other than that, good blog post.
Digitaldude  +   1754d ago
I agree not sure about old reviews either.
However my main thing I want is a section that only has official announcements, separating the opinions pieces to the facts.
Also somehow punish the rabid ranboys eg bungie and all his accounts, purposely not trying to add anything to the conversation.
#1.1 (Edited 1754d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
DanCrabtree  +   1754d ago
I second phnax. Some real solid points, but I don't mind a little retro gaming now and then.
creamydingle  +   1755d ago
Dude I don't want N4G to change at all. The reason why I come to this site is to read the comments on the flamebait articles. I love seeing the fanboys going at each other and seeing how stupid they are. This site thrives on the xbots and SDF if you cleaned up the site to much you would lose 70 to 80 percent of the users. I say leave it the way it is and enjoy it the way its meant to be enjoyed FLAME ON fanboys.
#2 (Edited 1755d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
LordMarius  +   1755d ago
i second that.

N4G is perfect the way it is, sure more active mods would be helpful and the forums should be more active(maybe a redesign) but thats about it. This place is a jungle, you can not have order.
Cold 2000  +   1755d ago
"People like Bungie or Saaking can be one and only person even though their opinion is radically different. But they put so much effort to be ridiculous in their propaganda it simply cannot be possible they don't do it deliberately."

You got it right for Bungie but believe it or not Saaking isnt playing a role. He is as serious as serious can be.
Jinxstar  +   1755d ago
"A veto must exist"

I like the idea but... It wouldn't matter. Because people would saveall their vetos for the best articles. Like Sony explaining why God of War 3 is only possible on the PS3 or why Halo Reach is only possible on the 360... So lets say I veto'd one of those for some reason. Some no name site would take the info and paste it on their site and submit it here as news... Now my veto is gone and thats it...
CARRIERHASARRIVED  +   1755d ago
Active and more strict moderating as well as the deletion of the open zone is all the site really needs. Comments go in one place, and get deleted in one place. No fanboy venting anywhere except for their blogs.

A neat addition to the heavier moderating would be:

Fresh accounts should start off with a temporary bubble cap so the people who repeatedly create new accounts just to flame the comments sections over and over will have to go through hurdles to consistently troll and evade the mods (run-on sentence *PHEW*). Anyone making variant trolling accounts can have their minimized bubble count popped and they'd be silenced instantly. Then banned if need be.
Jinxstar  +   1755d ago
Or they should do only 1 account per IP address...
CARRIERHASARRIVED  +   1755d ago
That....would also work! hahaha.

Some people might have a change of heart though! Surely perma-ban is a bit much?!
Jinxstar  +   1754d ago
If they get perma banned they just make a new account... So 1 account per IP address but no perma banning. Just 1 month or so at a time...
n4gn4gn4gn4g  +   1754d ago
@Jinxstar...
So myself and my 3 brothers cant have individual accounts and individual thoughts? 1 Account per IP prevents families from participating.
#5.4 (Edited 1754d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Jinxstar  +   1754d ago
Well heck man. there is no easy solution for this. I mean you could charge people 5 dollar per account one time fee and then block them off their credit cards or something... Sure some people are gonna get screwed. If you get sent to the open zone or "Banned" then it's another 5$ to come back to the open zone. That would keep everything civil... There is no easy solution. If your brothers had to share an account then so be it. In the end it would be better for the overall population of the site as opposed to letting bungie have 12 different accounts.
El_Colombiano  +   1754d ago
Paying for N4G? Never. I strongly disagree with the only one account per I.P.

Just ban I.P addresses for trolling. Let a user have a million accounts but the second he or she begins to troll, ban the I.P from signing into any account. Only allow a guest statues so they can still view N4G.
Jinxstar  +   1754d ago
That works too. I like that idea. Then the above poster could only blame his brothers for being numbskulls.
TrailerParkSupervisr  +   1755d ago
Banish to open zone.
Make it a 3 strikes (and us IP address, not handle).

3 times you post flaimbait in the Gamer Zone and you (your IP) is now NOT allowed to post in the Gamer Zone for, say, 30 days.

I agree it is quite funny to read some of the flame war comments but when a good story comes along and I might have some legitimate questions or comments and want feedback a la thread posters, it is immpossible to get a "normal" answer. I have to PM people that I think are knowledgeable and it feels intrusive.

So, make a fanboy comment in the Gamer Zone and you are sent to the jungle just like Snake Pliskin in Escape From New York.
UltimateSin  +   1755d ago
Gotta disagree with you on the Forums. While yes, they are random, people to frequent them quite a bit.
The Dixie Flatline  +   1755d ago
Why don't they just start new accounts off in the open zone only for X amount of time and/or X amount of posts. You could also limit bubble giving/taking privileges, and approvals/reports of articles while this account is under "probation." Then the account user could petition the moderators to be allowed to the gamer zone. I agree with TrailerParkSupervisr about the three strikes; three written warnings could be given and you are permabanned into the open zone and privileges revoked.
The problem I personally have with limiting or banning an IP address is that you might accidentally end up banning someone who is innocent. The main issue is that there might be users living at the same house that have separate accounts. Plus there are ways to hide or disguise your IP address let alone going to another internet connection, i.e. a coffee house and such.
The bottom line, however, is that flamebait and controversy brings more web traffic to the site, which = $$$ for N4G.

Just my 2 cents.
#8 (Edited 1755d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
thereapersson  +   1754d ago
N4G really needs the ability to IP ban people
People like Bungie and his 10+ multiple accounts are a HUGE nuisance around N4G.

This won't happen, though. I remember speaking to Catastrophe about why N4G doesn't IP ban people, and she gave quite a good reason (the likes of which I cannot recall at this moment, unfortunately).
Sangria  +   1754d ago
There are two reasons why IP banning is a bad idea:
- First because you may bann an innocent. If you have a network in your house that shares your connection with several computers, then IP banning one of the computers of that network means banning every other ones (because they share the same IP - not local IP - ). So if for example you have a brother that browse N4G as well, if he is IP banned that means you are IP banned as well.

- Secondly because IPs are in majority dynamic. If you get IP banned, then you just have to restart your router and you'll obtain a new IP, unless your ISP gave you a fix IP (I don't know if it's widespread but I doubt many ISPs still do that).

So globally IP banning can easily be bypassed and it may involve "innocent" people, that's why it's never the best solution to get rid of someone.
FAT MAN GO BOOM  +   1754d ago
N4G is great the way it is...
Without Rando the forums would die...lol

please stop the bashing... of the site...
Cajun Chicken  +   1754d ago
I'd like to think I've fully absorbed into N4G these days, been constantly visiting this site nearly everyday for 2 years. I find it's a great place to speak with people passionate about videogames, I just wish it were easier to network, maybe like Facebook.
I always check my list of comments just to see if anyones replied, I'm like that.

I totally agree with the reviews of games over an amount of time to keep credibility. HOWEVER, I think the 'user reviews' section should be expanded upon.

I also hate the idea of blogs trickling in more and more, people that don't even own their own domain name. I could, if I wanted to send a free template based blog and submit it to N4G. But I don't. I post on the user blogs I think those blog submitters to N4G should do the same, or at least get a bit of credibility with a cheap domain name.

I do agree with the majority of the stuff listed, but N4G at the moment does what it's supposed to do; it tells me all the latest gaming industry news (something I know FAR too much about for some odd reason) and as a bonus I get to speak with people who like games the same as me.
#11 (Edited 1754d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Hakimy  +   1754d ago
there is also a problem with the bubbles system.for example,there was a certain topic from a blog and it was fanboyish.most fanboys agreed with it,but those who disagreed with it,they lost a bubble! I mean wtf? so I disagree with an article and I write my opinion without being a fanboy or insulting anyone only to lose a bubble? and what's even funnier is that you lose a bubble from the people who own the same console as you! you either write one sentence like "great read" and you get 30 agrees and bubbles,or you disagree with the article and show reasonable reasons,only to get disagrees and lose bubbles.this encourage people to act as fanboys and make others feel kinda worried about writing something oppose to what fanboys say.it's like "you either with us or against us!" :P
Hoggy1983  +   1754d ago
N4G has one face...
Flamewars.

Now, I don't completely have a problem with this. In truth, the passion of the fanboys can really make the site a energetic place to be and its good to have irrational fanboyism sometimes mixed in.

However,
whilst I like to dip into the current format I'd really N4G to create a area where I can have healthy discussions about games. There doesn't seem to be any conviction behind "gamer zone" and "open zone" at present.

At the moment its just a popular place which therefore draws those who shout alot rather than listen.
Aomizuchi  +   1754d ago
Rant
This is just a silly rant, N4G is perfect the way it is.
macalatus  +   1753d ago
Sorry Sangria but personally I believe that your head is completely filled with bull when it comes to Randomicity. What is funnier is that your description of how Rando works in relation to the forums is contradictory. First, you said that Rando is a thread where people can post whatever crap that they may have, only to have a few people care about. So, if Rando thread is a place that most people don't even care, then how the hell would it detract most other people's attention away from the general forums?

It's funny people like you bash Rando for making people less interested in the forums when there is an off-site, so-called "N4G Chatroom" who like to advertise itself as "where the people would rather hang-out" instead of participating in the forums. How about this dummy...go check the forum post history of Fat Man, Polluted, Drudog, or even me and see if we made posts in other threads. As a matter of fact, you'll even see that we make the most posts in other threads compared to anyone else. Last but not least, does your little pea brain believe that if Rando disappears the forum is magically going to be active or the Chatgoers would suddenly participate in the forums? No...I don't think it would happen.

/rant.
Drithe  +   1753d ago
Hey whiner.
If you dont like how it is run go ruin another site or make YOUR OWN SITE! Complete freedom to express how you feel is awesome here and the general public tends to oust to arseholes that come and go.

This is THE BEST SITE FOR GAMING NEWS ON THE NET!

End of Line.
dalibor  +   1753d ago
Good read. My best solution for all the fanboy jibberish that goes on in N4g(let alone all the other gaming websites for that matter) is just ignore or aviod them. Don't let it phase you.
Idle h4nds  +   1753d ago
Get off your high horse
wow this sangria guy is on a high horse.. wth would he care about rando? hell half the time any forum posts that get answered are by people who frequent rando so his theory of killing rando would save the forum is moot bc rando is saving the forum already.

Ya know what scratch that the forums are happy and healthy if you don't like them then kindly STFU and GTFO bc I believe they are fine the way they are.

Look at any forum topic and I'm sure that many of the replies are from people who frequent randomicity.
FuzzyPixels  +   1753d ago
Some good points, but keep the fanboys...they're funny as hell!
I agree with some of Sangria's larger points. Approvals are certainly an issue, especially for smaller sites and blogs.

I'd like to see some clearer classifications for some of the reports, but I disagree with your point that they should be made anonymous. 'Lame' is, quite frankly, absurd, and should not be listed as a report. Criticise the article once it's up by all means, but shooting it whilst it's down for being 'lame' opens the system up to widespread abuse. But at least you can see who's behind the report...there's a certain sense of honesty in that which is appreciated.

I disagree with all of the stuff about IP banning, separating out fanboy comments and the rest. What if there's a house share, or if you ban an innocent, just hire some active mods! Fanboyism is irritating, and yes the Gamer Zone does have instructions telling people to act in a mature and respectful manner...but it's also hilarious. If N4G don't have a huge problem with it at the moment, neither do I. N4G gives me a good daily chuckle with some of it's less highbrow banter :D
Jikla  +   1752d ago
IP banning
IP banning should only be considered for people who spoil games. Just these 2 weeks I've had 2 games spoiled for me. And I'm kinda pissed about it...
blue7xx7  +   1749d ago
Yeah I agree unfortunately like you said this is "Fanboy land" and most fanboys like the comments above apparently don't want it to change because where else would they go and fight with other stupid fanboys. But I honestly don't care about moderating the comment section or forums since both are really easy to ignore all I care is about the news.

But yes I agree with practically the whole thing especially diving the pending section into specific sections and blacklisting certain websites. Also Gamers and trainee should not be able to report a story. But I doubt the admins or mods will change it they don't seem to eager to do it. It's sad because N4G is a great website at least the concept is where you can go and get all the news in one place as oppose to visiting many websites. But the community is one thing that ruins.
#21 (Edited 1748d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
tobebech  +   1742d ago
I never visited N4G when i wanted any serious debate anyways, this site is full of fanboys, and it is the only reason it is so successful.
sid4gamerfreak  +   1742d ago
N4G is completely plagued with the most ignorant foolish ps3 fanboys there is. They're actually making the PS3 look bad, instead of the opposite.

Good post, keep it up, atleast there r some ppl out there who know how low the n4g community is actually falling

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