Pintheshadows (User)

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"I'll try to be the voice of reason. Try."

I'm done being polite, this is no longer just a silly 'console war'.

Pintheshadows | 307d ago
User blog

I'd like to start of by saying I struggled finding an image for this blog so instead I used an image from the Mega Drive/Genesis title Alien Storm. In the picture we see gamers as the dude electrocuting the dubious ideas of game developers, in the face.

Anyhow...

The term console war is stupid. The fact is the people involved in them are even more stupid. They are inanimate objects. They play games and do a few other bits which frankly, I don't care about.

With the PS3 and 360 you had two excellent consoles which competed brilliantly for a long time. I played titles on both that I loved. I won't name names as everyone will have different opinions on the subject. Ok, screw it, here are 2. Uncharted and Lost Odyssey. I loved them.

Anyway, I digress. I wanted to discuss the suspect practices that were introduced in this generation. I am talking disc locked DLC, gross overcharging for map packs/costumes, micro-transactions, online passes, releasing incomplete experiences and asking us to pay for the rest and releasing broken games that needed patches and in some cases never got fixed.

I live in the UK so I support these developers (supported may be a better word, past tense and all) by dropping £40 on the counter of my local gameshop and running home to play them. I then found myself biting my tongue incredibly hard through all the nonsense they forced me through.

Gone were the days of unlocking extra costumes in beat em ups, I had to pay obscene prices for them. Rich companies ship a game with just a few multiplayer maps and then wants £15 from me for a map pack with just 3 more (Unreal Tournament had bucketloads, better designed as well). 3 measly maps that should have been in the full title. I missed out on chunks of games entirely (Bioware/EA) simply because I had not preordered but with the resources they have I sat there and thought to myself 'why is this not included anyway? Why would you want some people to not experience this?' There are always haves and have nots, I know, but spending hard earned money on your product, and having supported you by buying it brand new I felt it was a kick in the teeth.

I bit my tongue through it all, because idiots on the internet claim nonsense like 'oh, you are just an entitled gamer'. No i'm not, i'm a consumer who wants a little fairness for all of us. I want all of us to be able to enjoy every aspect of gaming without having to concede to developers greed and why should we? We put them there. You think EA would be around if I and many others hadn't of purchased Urban Strike and Road Rash?

Then came the Xbox One and MS. And up until then I took it, but i'm done.

As far as i'm concerned if you go out and buy one you are an anti gamer. A passive fool who will eat anything fed to him even if it has a huge warning sign on it. Essentially by buying an Xbox One you are becoming Microsoft's 'enabler'. 'Hey, it's fine if you strip my rights as a consumer away, I don't care'. And I hate that.

I commented this earlier at a certain poster.

'If you don't care about your rights and the suspect practices of gaming companies such as EA/MS/Acti/Capcom now then I hope you don't complain in the future when they bend you over at a more extreme angle and do terrible things to you.

And the worst thing is I, along with many others will pay for your attitude'.

That is how I feel right now. I know MS had some cool looking games and I know it is your choice and money but don't be so bloody minded that you just stroll straight into Microsoft's ultimate control trap.

This is no longer a silly console war of 'but teh exclusifs'. This is a serious matter involving everybodies consumer rights. I'm not even saying buy a PS4. Buy a Wii..buy a PC, buy an Atari 2600, buy a Sega Saturn, buy a used tractor and plough some fields gratis, but PLEASE don't support Microsoft's route. It will not end well.

I said a while back when EA abolished online passes that they were preparing for something far worse. I was right then. If i'm right this time then things will get much worse in the long term.

What this industry needs is some kind of trading standards coverage to prevent gamer abuse by large corporations as that what this is turning into.

I'm sorry if this seems like an overlong rant but I needed to say it and I think it needed to be said.

MacDonagh  +   307d ago
Gamers never stay true to their convictions. Xbox One may become a success, regardless of the outrage because the market slice they are going after aren't gamers.

They are going after the "Bro" gamer who only plays COD, Battlefield and EA games.

And still some people will buy it because of that.
dedicatedtogamers  +   307d ago
I think the paradigm shift that Xbox One represents is too different, too restrictive. History shows time and time again that when you restrict your technology, it usually doesn't work out. Ubisofts PC DRM and DivX are two big stinkers that come to mind.
shadowraiden  +   306d ago
you say that but Steam which is effectively DRM and has the limitations xboxone has and yet has brought more money into the gaming market then sony or microsoft.

end of the day people will buy the console to play exclusives which if microsoft keep pumping out blockbuster exclusives it will make people forget about the other problems just because they want to play those exclusives.
Ultr  +   305d ago
@shadowraiden

No, Steam is digital-only, nobody cares about restrictions there.

THIS TIME it's about physical retail games.

Time to stand up people! vote with your money
TechnicianTed  +   305d ago
@shadowraiden

Steam doesn't have the restrictions Xbox1 has, you can play your games offline and don't need to stand to attention for it every 24 hours. It also has the benefits of having cheaper games and not having to pay to play online.
Godmars290  +   307d ago
"What this industry needs is some kind of trading standards coverage to prevent gamer abuse by large corporations as that what this is turning into."

And unfortunately that involves government involvement. Which would be all well and good if not for the faction in government were looking to control and even minimize the gaming industry if only for their own political agendas. It would be like handing them the keys to do just that.

Worse still, also given the current levels of corruption, and "good" that might come out of any kind of government action would likely be in favor of game companies.
SilentNegotiator  +   307d ago
I'd like to see some unofficial standards. Like a special interest group with "ratings" of consumer-friendliness.
Qrphe  +   307d ago
Government control in an entertainment industry is a terrible idea even from the most liberal of angles. If the Xbox One sells one billion consoles like MS wants, then that's what they gaming market asked for unfortunately.
Pintheshadows  +   306d ago
I'd rather go for an independent trading standards commission than one controlled by a government. They do exist and they do good things for consumers from all walks of life. Something needs to be done as it is getting more and more out of hand as years pass by.
BitbyDeath  +   307d ago
Already starting to pay for it with stupid online fees.
Thanks MS you are killing it for everyone.
Cedocore  +   306d ago
I'm just lol'ing. PC is fine of course, even though 90% of digital PC sales are done through Steam, which has been restricting your games to yourself for YEARS. Yes yes, I know they have lots of sales and blah blah blah, it doesn't change the fact that many, many, many gamers are accepting of their policies regarding used games. To now rage and bitch about Microsoft implementing these same policies[except you can give the game away once with the Xbox One] is pathetic.

Don't let me interrupt the circle jerking though.
Godmars290  +   306d ago
Thing is that the PC market was/is so comparatively small to consoles. With console games more controllable versus very easily copied PC games - anyone with a PC can literally copy a game - that when the market began to move from physical to digital, no one really complained. Also anti-piracy measures, limited use copies, had been experimented on well before then.

And MS being a software/PC company carried that mentality into console gaming. Were repeatedly victimized by piracy on both the PC and console fronts. Are trying to adopt, now that Steam's proven it and its been accepted, similar policies on consoles. But console gaming still isn't PC gaming. All PCs and PC gamers may be online but not all console gamers are. MS have been oblivious of this even with the first Xbox.

Can only hope the coming instance of the XBO finally makes them notice that flaw.
shadowraiden  +   306d ago
you say its comparatively small and yet pc games have more active players then they do on both consoles put together.

only console gamers think pc gaming is small because they havnt seen how many people play on the big pc games.

valve made more profit in the last 2 years then sony and microsoft combined and that was mostly due to the success of steam.
Godmars290  +   306d ago
@shadowraiden:

You're talking two years. I'm talking about three decades at least. From the days before Atari until just recently console gaming was the vast majority. This has only changed because of the iPhone market, and yes Steam, but that's hardly ten years.

And even still that segment is made up of casual - not PC - gamers.
dedicatedtogamers  +   306d ago
You're right, but you're wrong. Used games on PC have been gone for over a decade. Using that as a talking point is about as silly as mocking smartphones for being digital-only, because hey! There was once a time when you were able to install software to your Blackberry using a CD-ROM and a cable hooked up to your computer. So, yeah! Smartphone users who complain about digital only are dumb....right?

And the thing is: we're talking about consoles, and most console gamers do NOT want consoles to become like PCs. It's not pathetic to rage about these things, because the console owners who are complaining about it are not necessarily users of Steam. Is that really so hard to understand?
#4.2 (Edited 306d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
ZombieGamerMan  +   306d ago
Also the biggest difference is Steam deals with intangible products
SuperLupe  +   306d ago
Funny a a lot of people were cheering for the Steam Box ... Well MS actually came out with a machine just like it the same people are hear making ridiculous blogs.

BTW I didnt even bother readaing it, read 2 or 3 sentences in random paragraphis and it gives me just as much insight I need to know I will some brain cells if I dedicate more than 10 seconds to your mental diarreah.

Not saying that I agree wit MS policies but Cedocore has a point and is absoluetely right. The fact that you could even acknowledge that and just shows how much value your train of thought represents: zero.

Sorry but cant intellevcrually respect somebody of your level.
Foxton01  +   306d ago
you guys are forgetting that most games on steam are sold during sales, where they cost pennies compared to console games.

30$ for a console game is considered cheap, while 5$ is cheap on a pc. 10$ is alright, 20 is hell no, i'll wait for sale.

So do you want to be able to get 2$ back for your 5$ game when you're done? sure, but it really doesn't matter at that price.
Pintheshadows  +   306d ago
I didn't 'cheer' the Steambox fyi, but hey, why don't you lump me in with what you 'think'? Wouldn't want your illusions that i'm somehow a hypocrite to be shattered. When Steam starts offering hardware + physical software then I will make the exact same complaint as it will be the same situation but frankly i'm as interested in Steambox as I am in contracting Ebola.

I'm amazed that people do not realise the huge difference between Steam/PC gaming as a whole running on Windows and Console gaming?

I mean if you cannot put two and two together and see how this is a bad thing I feel pity for you.

And hell, you can't even spell intellectually, let alone respond in that manner.

Judging by your comment history it is no surprise that you are tempting to shroud your apologetic nature towards MS and their policies. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Dno  +   306d ago
2 things.

1 sales. I got saints row 3 for $3.95

2. Disk. (get this through your head) MICROSFOT IS TELLIN ME MY DISK IS NOT MINE. are your just stupid? When ever have a disk not been able to be put in any system I chose after I buy it? not movies not music not anything.

When we buy digital we know we cannot share it unless I give you my HDD. But a disk? no one has ever told me my physical copy is not mine......

please stop comparing steam to XB1. you look like a fool when u do.
Cedocore  +   306d ago
"Yes yes, I know they have lots of sales and blah blah blah"

I mentioned sales. It doesn't make a difference, you're still telling Steam that you not having full ownership of your game is okay.

You own the disk, sure. You do not, however, own the game. Are YOU stupid? Gaming is well on the way to game licensing, not ownership. I bring up Steam because telling Valve that one thing is okay and making them rich because of it is as good as telling Microsoft and Sony the same thing.

I'm honestly confused as to how you think that Steam and the Xbox One are totally different things. They're both gaming platforms, and they do impact each other. Everything is connected when it comes to gaming. You can't tell one company something is okay and get mad when another company catches on. It makes you a hypocrite.
Ultr  +   305d ago
@Dno thank you

@Cedocore .... you own the disk, you do own the game on that disc. yes
You buy a Blu-ray, you do own the blu-ray, you do own the movie on that disc.

NOW if we go on with this crap Microsoft doing...
What is going to happen when you buy a Blu-ray?? only working in your own player?
WTH man, WTH!!
Never happend to you what?
damn...
some just don't want to think
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loulou  +   304d ago
you do own the f'king game/disc ffs. yes it is restrictive, but you can give it to someone, trade it or sell it on ebay afterwards..

the difference being that the second user will have pay to activate it... the cost is yet to be determined.

you can use your game on other consoles, with your profile. as long as you are connected the no problems.

i dont agree with all the policies, but there is no way on this earth that i will not be buying an xbox one on launch.

disagree away
#4.4.3 (Edited 304d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
Dno  +   305d ago
If you think we don't own the game on a disk that we own then you are stupid and this conversation is over.

For the past 25 years once I bought the disk I can do anything I want with it beside copy it and sell that pirated copy on consoles. That's called ownership.
Software_Lover  +   306d ago
The only issue with Microsoft is the once every 24 hour check in. If they get rid of that I think they would be fine.

They want you to use Kinect. They want it to be apart of the way you use the system, so they are bundling it. Point blank. You dont like it, dont use it. Hook it up and go into the options to turn it off. Let it sit on the floor behind your setup and cover it up with a paper bag if you want. They are going to continue to make games for it because its something they believe in. People say they are forcing it down our throats, might be. But if they truly believe in the system, why not use it?

The used game thing will get sorted out here soon. It's not as bad as everyone thinks. It really isn't. It's just A PLAY WITH WORDS, kudos to Sony for running with it though. They are using it to their advantage. Put it this way, if Microsoft didn't make it mandatory to install games to the HDD, and not run from the disc, this wouldn't even be an issue. But because of that install, that brought about the 24hr check in. Sony has now tied Multiplayer to a paid system. No matter how you try to spin the "value", they are still FORCING YOU TO PAY FOR MULTIPLAYER. F2P online games aside of course.

If/when Microsoft gets that sorted out, I think people will calm down. The internet is blazing right now, It's Microsoft's move. They are now equal on all fronts with Sony, with the exception of the 24hr check in.

My only problem is that most of the games showed, including racing games, were MMO games. Online is where we are headed as an industry.
#5 (Edited 306d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
maniacmayhem  +   306d ago
"if Microsoft didn't make it mandatory to install games to the HDD, and not run from the disc, this wouldn't even be an issue."

This is what baffles me the most about MS's decision to do this. (I commented on this in another post before). I know the Xbox One is trying to go for a seamless transition from app to any game on the HDD to TV but why couldn't they have just made it to whatever disc is currently in your system and all digital DL's?

They could have avoided this whole mess and dropped these stupid confusing policies of lending a game to a friend who has been on your list for 30 days or trading in games at special retailers. Something like this couldn't possibly sound good in a pitch meeting or even on paper to the execs.
Crazay  +   306d ago
I think part of the issue is that people aren't looking at the bigger because MS sure as shit isn't painting it very well. Stumbled on this today - not sure if it was posted or not but I thought it was a good read.

http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9j...
Pintheshadows  +   306d ago
That is interesting. I see the point he makes but I think he is wrong.

The main thing I got from that though is if I was to trade a game in the US don't use Gamestop.

Anyhow, he seems to miss the point entirely as most people do. Steam on a PC is nothing like a gaming console where you can buy physical games. Buying digitally you know what you are in for but for MS to say you can't sell that object you just brought unless you dance to our obtuse and ridiculous tune is insane. and I certainly think his comments on prices dropping are naive, especially with some of Microsofts publishing rules on XBL.

If MS went totally digital with the XB1 I would of understood their move but until that happens the nature of their decisions is just jaw droppingly stupid.
Crazay  +   306d ago
It seems to me that it became pretty apparent on both Sony and MS sides with the current generation of consoles that is where they want to go. MS is just kinda attacking it aggressively first. The change was already coming - it was just a matter of who was going to pull the trigger first.
Pintheshadows  +   306d ago
Absolutely, but going completely digital has to be a slow and careful process. You can't just say 'we like digital games, they are the future, lets introduce policies that apply to that model specifically' when you are still selling physical copies.

That is why Steam is acceptable. I can't get a physical copy, and I know that headed in but at the same time I am saving huge amounts of money on games.

However with consoles the physical copies are expensive (£40/$60) and the digital copies are often the same if not more especially if you like to support the developers day one as I usually do. It is then my choice to trade it in when I am done with it. Especially if I have taken a punt on a bad game and want to make some money back.

Paying that much for a game from a shop and then not being able to sell it as you see fit is a huge consumer rights breach that no other product of any kind (maybe pants) enforces.

MS clearly loves the idea of a digital future (fair enough) and is trying to embrace it. Then it decides goes to put a non replacable hard drive in the X1. I mean that is ridiculous. It is like they have a vision but do not have the vision to finally implement that vision.

I just don't see consoles as viable digital only platforms yet so why MS introduced this craziness is beyond me. Sony just stuck to what worked for the moment as did Nintendo.

MS to be honest are an absolute mess at the moment. They are being battered from every side and their once dominating market presence is becoming increasingly threatened. No doubt they are still obscenely cash rich but they seem to be panicking and making odd decisions at the moment. Someone there needs to grab the company by the scruff of its neck and give them a violent shake.
Crazay  +   306d ago
My thoughts are that if they really want to go all digital distribution, they need to push it hard the right way. Lose the 24hr logon thing, Keep the physical discs for those of us who want to look at a pretty library of titles but give incentive to go digital distribution. Offer it up at a savings of $10-20 that will get people using it and embracing it much quicker.

If I can get 4 digital copies for the same price as 2 or 3, watch how quickly I start to change my tune. Especially in the months of Sept-December when all the big releases hit shelves.

The non replaceable HDD is a bit puzzling because it's only 500GB which is what? 10 games off a bluray disc? I only see this as being intentional if much sooner than later they plan to do more of an Onlive model...Which I have to admit that despite the fact that I called it 3yrs ago that this was going to happen, I don't want it to be that way. My internet is shitacular.
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thebudgetgamer  +   306d ago
I like to call it a contest for consumer affection.
ZombieGamerMan  +   306d ago
You know this gen is the true console wars because back then it was just who's shiny piece of plastic was better than the other but now its an actual war about ideology and consumer rights. This is the true war and our weapons are our words and actions, the only way to win this is to not buy Xbox One.
Cedocore  +   305d ago
You'd best stop buying games from Steam too, if you already do. They don't let you fully own your games either. You can excuse them all you want, tell me they have sales and blah blah blah, but you're still telling them it's okay.
Pintheshadows  +   305d ago
Give it rest Cedocore.

You know right now I can go onto Steam and click 'offline' mode and play The Witcher 2 without a mandatory 24hr check in. Probably not. I doubt you have ever used Steam and if you had you would know the huge difference. Here is a fact for you, you sound unbelievably ridiculous (to the point I shook my head as I read each of your comments) trying to compare a DIGITAL ONLY delivery platform to a hardware platform that PHYSICAL SOFTWARE is available on.

If you can't see the massive difference there you are either being bloody minded for the sake of it (wouldn't surprise me), foolish, or outright dense.

Those with your attitude will cost us all in the long term as all that will happen is that gamers will be taken advantage of by corporations who place greed and control over simple but important rights.

When that happens you will either a)complain or b) defend it to the hilt, as clearly you are hugely misinformed. You don't seem to realise how serious this matter actually is. It is not about console loyalty or fanboyism. It is about our most basuic rights as a consumer.

And if things decline further I will turn to detesting you and your ilk more than I do already for enabling and defending this kind of nonsense.
#8.1.1 (Edited 305d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report

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