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Godmars290 (User)

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"I Just Want a Motherf***ing Starfox Clone!"

The Final Fantasy XIII Argument…Again…

Godmars290 | 1473d ago
User blog

With the imminent release of FF13-2 and the renewal of friction between factions of what once might have been called a singular fanbase before the game’s immediate predecessor caused massive division, thought I’d make an attempt explain the “troll” or “hater” side of things. If only because those individuals who are quick to make such claims upon their fellow gamers not only seem to do so from an stance unwilling to understand much less hear an opinion different from their own, but often give no reason except for the love of the franchise in general as they try to defend this one – now two – games.

And speaking personally for a group I say that it wasn’t the overly linear map that made me a “Hater”. As any true Final Fantasy fan knows, all entries into the franchise have been linear. It was just that in the particular case of Thirteen, such was painfully and blatantly obvious. Likewise I didn’t have all that much trouble with the combat engine. Was frustrated by it, finally quit forty-nine hours in because of a cheap shot near the end of a boss fight, but it wasn’t the real reason why I just gave up on the game. Much less turned my back on a company I’ve been following since its Nintendo days.

I’ve all but given up on Square Enix because they’re lazy.

If you’ve defended them and are still reading this, aren’t just a fellow hater looking for validation, I can only ask that you continue to read. Actually I ask that you consider the blatant evidence of Final Fantasy Fourteen. How its lead developer at the time felt that he could get away with what turned out to be a shoddy release. The lengths and expense to which Square was then forced and continues to commit to repair the damage done there, yet still allowed it to happen in the first place. Then look at Front Mission Evolved which was a deliberate cash in of the First Person Shooter genera. Gun Loco which was canceled almost as soon as it was announced. While these and other possible examples might speak of “Moving With the Times” as many say when trying to defend the company’s motives, they can hardly be compared to announcements made back in the day that generally spoke of imagination.

Weird Japanese imagination – which we Westerners loved with a passion regardless.

Now looking back to FFXIII-2, my first reaction was to call it fan service: catering to fans for the sake of catering to fans. This is where I likely fully earned the Hater label – this despite my position towards FFXIII – even though those who gave it with a negative connotation were agreeing with me in one form or another when they were listening, before they stopped listening to anything other than their own shared opinion. Was an action I understood as attempt to not spoil someone’s self-enjoyment of the game, but then I was finding such mentality being applied to FFXIII-2’s general success. That somehow a game aimed at fans of FFXIII would perform better than it had.

Then the fringe group, the hardcore fans who will state, even though some will admit that FFXIII-2 fixes issues with the prior game, that FFXIII itself is perfect started to speak up. And things really hit the fan from there.

Again, speaking personally, the one thing that I truly hate is the idea that expression of my own opinion towards Square and the FFXIII titles might be souring the enjoyment others still have towards them. At the same time however I’m not just going to go silent or leave no comment when I hear about how absolutely wonderful and perfect those games are from Square much less their fans. The story in FFXIII was shallow if not non-existent and many if not all of the minor characters were wasted. Square will likely never admit but the changeover from standard to hi definition gaming caused them major development strain, not to mention the switch over from single to multi platforms.

And please don’t start up on *that* particular argument below: FFXIII-2 shows that FFXIII could have been a better game if it had begun as a PS3/360 title regardless of how it turned out as it did or as it was originally intended.

Its just as true that the direct sequel was as much an attempt at damage control as the current updates and patching that are going on with FFXIV. Square is trying to make up, and cash in, for not doing the job that they should have done right in the first place. Enjoy Thirteen-Two if you liked the game before it, but please at least try to admit that truth to yourself.

Likewise I share this with my fellow haters to try and consider: Final Fantasy Versus Thirteen was conceived in this new era where Square is relearning how to walk while saying it can do the hundred yard dash in ten seconds.

It will not be a perfect game – it may not even be on one system – just hope that its not a mess, has a decent story with palpable characters, and doesn’t have full game sequels or requires DLC for the complete ending...

DragonKnight  +   1472d ago
FFXIII should never have been an FF game. SE should have made it its own game and let it stand that way. As a part of the FF series, it is a terrible game. The FF series has a pedigree of excellence that FFXIII simply doesn't live up to.

If you look at the main series as a whole, the last true to form FF game that was released was FFX. FFXI split the fanbase and is nothing like what we came to expect of the series, and everyone likes/dislikes different things about FFXII for anyone to make a conclusive case for or against it.

The FF series ranks among the top selling franchises of all time because it was a series of excellent games. Yes, linearity was present in all of the games at the beginning, but only FFXIII made it painfully obvious. In all other FF games, even though you were moving in a straight line, you could still explore the towns, or the immediate map area, talk to people, had interesting characters and other small things to do. Hell, even shopping for equipment took away from the linearity, as you could grind for gil to stay ahead of the difficulty of later areas.

But FFXIII made absolutely EVERYTHING linear, and in an immensely boring way. No NPC's to talk to, no towns to explore, story progression leveling instead of enemy grinding, and even shopping for equipment was pointless as the only time you'd really need to is towards the end of the game. Add in auto-battling and the game is incredibly hands off, which is how the director wanted it. He wanted it to be more like a movie than a game, but should have paid attention to how Kojima did it with MGS4 if that's how he wanted it.

Now FFXIII-2 is pretty much Enchanted Arms and Chrono Trigger but in the FFXIII universe. I don't know how many of you played Enchanted Arms, but here's a quick description. Battling is very boring. Usually the best way to fight is auto-battle because you really won't want to bother with the mundane manual way. You can find or purchase golem (basically monster) cores that allow you to have monster allies in your team, each of a corresponding elemental affinity that dictates their strengths/weaknesses and types of attacks. There is a main character completely different from normal people with his own "special skill."

And where it factors in Chrono Trigger is the time travel mechanic, but it's not as good as Chrono Trigger. It seems that SE are content with phoning in FFXIII and FFXIII-2, probably because they both have the same director. Now, we can hope that Nomura won't phone in Versus XIII, but it's easy to have little faith in the company as a whole when most people are actually anticipating FFXHD than the next new FF game to release. It's clear people want SE to return to their roots, but Western media have Japanese development studios thinking no one likes their traditional JRPG style anymore and that's simply not true. Get back to what works SE. Simply improve upon what you know people want instead of telling us what we like.
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EnzoLuca  +   1472d ago
I was going to write that.

But you did it first. Bravo!
lasersquash  +   1470d ago
Thats why there is Tales, Kingdom hearts, SMT games, etc. to fill the hole that FF left behind when it went downhill.
Ranma1  +   1470d ago
FF13-2 is just the sequel to the worst FF ever
XishikiX  +   1472d ago
I'm a fan, of FFXIII (not, I think it's the best, I also don't think it's the worst. I think it's in the middle). But obviously this post was not made to debate this.

But I agree, FFXIII-2 was made to address complaints that people had with the first one. I've been playing it, and I like it a lot.

However, I'm confused with their logic. There will be some people that didn't like FFXIII and will like this. But I'd have to think the majority of the people who really disliked FFXIII, it's not going to convince them otherwise no matter what they do particularly since the core is still the same just with a lot of extras. People don't normally buy a sequal to a game they didn't like.

FFXIV I don't understand. A lot of effort was put into it (I played the beta) but you could tell it wasn't close to finished. but the maybe Execs wanted it out regardless. That happens in company's :-/

Also, I liked your post. I don't mind people being negative about FF13 or any game in particular. It's just often on N4G, people are full of incoherent hate and trolling. But your post was well thought out.
Megaman_nerd  +   1472d ago
incoherent hate, right....
XishikiX  +   1471d ago
you completely missed the point. I said incoherent hate. That article is mostly coherent. People going to metacritic, and giving FFXIII-2 a 0 out of 10 when they can't have played it 5 hours is nonsensical. Just like the people that give it a 10 after playing it for 5 hours.

You can make an argument, that every story is FF is crap compared to 2001, Citizen Kane etc, because of plotholes, bad motivations. You can make an argument, that they all are way more linear than western RPG's and therefore are inferior. You can make coherent arguments that every Final Fantasy is bad if you so select to.
I mean FFIX (my favorite dialogue), you can make an argument that if it was voice-acted it would sound utterly ridiculous.

You can make arguments for why you people like FFXIII, music, graphics, art design, battlesystem , maybe some people just want battles and linear. And people on each side are neither right or wrong.
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Sprud  +   1472d ago
"Again, speaking personally, the one thing that I truly hate is the idea that expression of my own opinion towards Square and the FFXIII titles might be souring the enjoyment others still have towards them."

Don't worry about it. I can assure you that liking a game brings more enjoyment than hating a game. And personally, I only feel increased enjoyment by knowing that I can enjoy something the haters can't :)

It's also interesting that the haters seem to have a great need to broadcast their hate to the world. Just like you did with this blog. It's as if you want to "convert" the people who actually liked the game. Surely you realize how futile that is? It's not like people pretend to like it out of spite.
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Godmars290  +   1472d ago
"It's not like people pretend to like it out of spite."
But it is possible that people like it out of fandom. And that's the worry when Square does something like XIII-2 to try and fix XIII. The reason haters feel that they have to speak up is so that the only voices that are heard as those of the fans who'll buy anything with a FF logo on it.

That's the direction Sqaure has pretty much been saying they intend to go since the beginning of this console generation.
Ingram  +   1472d ago
"And personally, I only feel increased enjoyment by knowing that I can enjoy something the haters can't"

Oh, that says so much about you, but I'll try not to be personal about it.I'll just sum up your apparent "motiv" here.

"haters"...this is you implying that you're "getting" FFXIII and people who don't like it, just did not "get it".

Let me tell you here and now; FFXIII is not precisely a Stanley Kubrick movie or Hermes Trismegistus "Corpus Hermeticum",

So, you just said you feel better just knowing other people are not as happy as you are with something.Sorry for asking, but is that a legitimate reason for liking FFXIII or just the public reassurance that you're a classist hipster?

Again, you're basically saying "the game IS very good, some people don't see that"

You're entitled to like it and you don't need to explain why, but let me tell you, that does not give you the right to disauthorize and look down people who did not enjoy the game for legitimate reasons, which is surprisingly the usual and only COA of most FFXIII lovers when defending their ground.
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Ingram  +   1472d ago
I'm a hater...And I can't stand it anymore.

They hired too many CG artists this decade, it would seem that more than 50% of their workforce consist of this kind of people.
Their videos are impressive, but their game planning, scenario & battle design, script and such other important assets for a story driven game have become soulless.The game is just a neverending hallway.A guided visit in a PG-13 rated theme park full of pink bunnies.

This is an unforgivable flaw.

You're given a false freedom to develop your characters.
They can only grow so much in segments of the story, you're not really allowed to grind your characters or "specialize" them, they only give you that impression.

This is an unforgivable flaw.

90% of Major characters are unambitious, shallow, frivolous, posh and puerile archetypes.

This is an unforgivable flaw.

Summons are preposterous, underpowered and absurd, NPC's are braindead, AI is retarded, music seems taken from a 90's tampon ad.

These are all unforgivable flaws, but since lots of you "don't get the hate" and received this pretty turd with open arms, the rest has to cope with XIII-2.

You so called "fans" just don't realize that a critic attitude is needed as feedback, so companies don't perish in their own corporate ineptitude.You just came late to the party, wowed at the videos and defended your legitimate right to be a FF fan since you heard it's a hip thing from your older brothers in gaming.

Thank you,"fans", I hope you enjoy the subpar bastard child between Disney and Uwe Boll that is going to be Squeenix from now on.
Dac2u  +   1471d ago
I agree with everything you've said, but I've never seen a better description than: "the subpar bastard child between Disney and Uwe Boll." That was a perfect description of FFXIII.
iamtehpwn  +   1472d ago
Good read.
I had mixed feelings about XIII. On one side, XIII had an incredible concept, Rich world, tons of lore, a fast paced battle system, and a cool protagonist like Lightning. The premise was excellent.

It's just the way it was all executed was terribly wrong in almost every conceivable way. There was no variety to the game at all. Really, I felt like I was walk down a hall way and mashing X the whole time without really thinking about what I was doing. This did all change when I got to Gran Pulse, and I was exploring. That was fun.

But the thing about it is, almost every single thing about the game was fundamentally broken, even down to the map on the HUD, which rotated AS you rotated meaning it always threw you off course when traveling across the pulse. The battle system was decent, but only if yo went into your settings and default "Abilities" instead of "auto battle".

I still found the game enjoyable in some respect. It had some cool moments. Thankfully XIII-2 does fix almost every major complaint, although it does bring in it's own problems as well. But it shows that Square is listening to us perhaps even the small aspects, even though it wasn't Versus XIII or FFXV that people were clamoring for.
GamingTruth  +   1471d ago
you mashed x the whole time? that right there made you loose credibility in itself, i dont really care if you had 2 agrees for it and no disagrees, you should really post a video of you playing through ff13 tapping nothing but a, and never changing a paradigm at all, that would be absolutely joyous seeing you get so many game overs but what ever
iamtehpwn  +   1471d ago
Are you serious? I thought paradigm shifts were implied, but I never used any sort of advanced strategy to win until the post game challenge monsters. I played XIII for 89 hours, and I even bought XIII-2 Collector's edition and I just played that for 9 hours last night. Loving it a lot more than XIII as there's more to do outside of battle.
KingItachi  +   1471d ago
Since FFX Squareenix has fell off, I can't really comment on 13 because I have not played it and will not play it. As for 13-2 played the demo not interested in it one bit,for me it shows just how much Sakaguchi's influenced is missed.
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Dno  +   1471d ago
i loved ff13. i got all trophies in it. im currently playing ff13-2 and its just as good in fact better. FF13 no matter what was the best JRPG on consoles this gen. (of course there have not been many but some good ones did come on xbox early on but none better the ff13)

thats all i have to say about this
DragonKnight  +   1470d ago
Hell no it wasn't. Demons' Souls, Dark Souls, Valkyria Chronicles, that's just the tip of the iceburg of better JRPG's on consoles. Wow. If you would have said "in my opinion" then ok, but wow.

FFXIII is probably one of the worst JRPG's I've ever played, and JRPG's are my favorite genre so I've played A LOT of them.
Dno  +   1470d ago
sales of those games compared to ff13 says differently. However thats your opinion which i respect but its not mine. I will admit that I should have wrote an IMO, or that its the highest selling JRPG this gen. i will admit that
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Hyperbomb69  +   1470d ago

Are you kidding me?
Ok look, I love RPG's I have platinumed FF13,Fallout 3 and NV, Demons Souls AND Dark Souls. I can safely tell you that FF13 is NOT the best JRPG on consoles this gen. Too linear, artificially long (they make you grind up to a point.), no towns, boring combat, mediocre story, mediocre characters, and the western mindset while making the game. FF13 is FAR from being "The best JRPG this gen".

The game got the sales it did not deserve and that was only because of its name, you could just take that name and call it something else and it would not sell half of what it sold, it was a pathetic excuse for a Final Fantasy game, and thanks to the Xbox 360 we PS3 owners got the short end of the stick. I can say the same thing for FF13-2 because the visuals just do not look as good as FF13, and that is because this game was actually a multiplat, thanks to the xbox once again us PS3 owners have to deal with mediocrity that is the xbox 360.

If you really think sales = quality then you are missing out on so many great games and you are the cancer that is ruining gaming. Saying sales is quality is like saying McDonalds has the best burgers in the world because they sell the most burgers in the world. Do you want to go eat at McDonalds because they sell the most? Yeah thats what I thought. FF13 is NOT the best JRPG this Gen.

Related image(s)
Dno  +   1468d ago
your opinon not mine. as i said before sales say other wise.
and fallout is not a JRPG and imo that game sucks. i would never bring that up in this convo as its not JRPG.

Sales do prove one thing.. that a lot of people agree with the game being good. Games that sucks ass do not sell 5-7 million copies. im sorry to say that.

And MCdonolds really? everyone knows that burger is good. thats why it sells well because its good. Same with Final fantasy. IMO FF113 is the best JRPG and thats because its good and there is no one esle making them on consoles.
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PCE  +   1471d ago
Squaresoft was one of my all time favorite companies in video games. Their games were of high standard and excellence for the jRPG genre. But look at it now, merged with Enix, and completely abandoned their audience that actually supported and appreciated their games, all so they market to some "larger" audience of drunken fratboys. Because of this, this leaves me little hope for vXIII and may be the final nail in the coffin.

Going mainstream is the worst thing that has happened to video games in recent history. Everything is going the way of the movie industry, companies just can't come up with an original, inspiring game anymore. Sad.
Ingram  +   1471d ago
You're absolutely on spot.

I still have hope in ATLUS, FROM and NIS though.They truly delivered this generation, IMHO.
saf100792  +   1470d ago
got ffxiii-2 from redbox today.. played a few hours. its ok i guess. the storyline is kinda bland and im like 4 hours in and the main plot hasn't really advanced AT ALL. After the intro the main story is at a complete standstill it seems. Not to mention.. maybe i'm late to the party or something but where the hell are the summons?
Spydr07  +   1470d ago
So far as I know, there aren't any summons. The death of the Fal'cie changed much in the FFXIII world. I guess the monster enslaving is as close as you're going to get.

Oddly enough, I agree with nearly every single negative thing said about FFXIII and still like it. Nearly every fault listed for it was present in all the other FFs I have played (1, 7-13, including 11).

Most common faults:
All are really linear in terms of plot, they just had sidequests (save ff1 and ff11 as 1 was just linear and 11 was def not linear) to distract you from it. I cannot defend SE's new thing of only having a mark hunting sidequest to fill the void (see ff12 and ff13). It's stupid and insulting.

Broken Combat~
Really? I can't even believe people bring this up.
FF7 WSMN Hades + KOTR broke all
8 you didn't even have to fight a single random battle and Zell..
9 had shock + thievery + frog drop + dragon crest = broken
10 had feed Wakka all overdrive and abuse attack reals (13 hit ~1.3 mil damage)
12 had give 2 attackers berserk, haste and I forgot the other buff and watch them rape everything while you just ran thru maps along with early and easy Z.Spear access

Bland Lead Character (Lightning)~
Oh, yeah...really?
7 Cloud was an emotionless drone
8 Squall was a stupid emo afraid to love
9 Really, SE? It's a love story about 2 people who aren't even EIGHTEEN!!!
10 I got nothin'
12 All characters sucked, imo.

Annoying Character(s) (hope/vanille)~
7 I got nothin'
8 Selphie
9 Quina (sp??) and the female, Zidane's <3
10 No one, really, maybe Yuna or Rikku
12 Everyone, terrible game

Plot Issues (convoluted/confusing)
7 had the slowest developing plot of all FFs, imo, and remains the only one I've never replayed because of it. Feels like you're stuck in Midgard for 4 yrs...
8 all the time travel and I thought Edea made a better antagonist...EVERYONE coming from the same orphanage...really???
9 REALLY? A love story about two people under the age of EIGHTEEN!?!?! Oh, and the general cast was too young. Next babies will save the world...
10 Beware the giant whale like creature of doom!
12 Again, just sucked all around. It's Final FANTASY, not some RPG about a war. Seemed to lack too much of the fantasy aspect for me

Oh, my favorite complaint was that 13 isn't turn based. Really? What was FFX the ONLY FF you played on PSX+? How many FFs since FF6 were turn based? That must mean 7, 8, 9, X-2, 11, 12, and 13 all sucked for the same reason. Some people must hate the ATB. Which is an insult I will not take lightly because I won't hear Parasite Eve and Valkyrie Profile sucked for any reason, let alone being ATB games.

I realize I left X-2 out but it could easily be guilty of all this as well. From annoying (stupid Y R P crap) to broken combat (Cat Nip).

Point is that all FF games really did some of this crap. Odd how 13 gets the most hate for it. I actually applaud SE for the gambles they took (removing towns, battle system, etc). If you didn't like their presentation, fine. But condemning them for trying to change it up is condemning new approaches; it's condemning progress and innovation. Ok...

/end rant
GamingTruth  +   1470d ago
from the things people are saying about ff13 and 13-2, i think older ffs are definitely overrated, oh yeah as i said its the internet, these people arent a real representation of final fantasy fans, me and my friend have been playing ff13-2 non stop since it came out and agree that ffs that came before these new ones are very very overrated even though we love them also
Godmars290  +   1470d ago
Again, FFXIII's main failing was is straightforward shallowness.

Other FFs may have been as linear, but none offered a literal point A/point B.

Other FFs' stories may have been weak/convoluted, but none were as direct. Began with the main story line and focused only on the main story line.

Characters too had more depth to them as their stories and histories played out. Their personalizations changed and adjusted as they took on their roles among within the group and as saviors. With XIII, what character development happened was outright told as characters only had themselves to play off of.

And really, missing the point of trying to include FFXII and X-2 in your rant as the issue for anyone who understands it is that the transition from Squaresoft to Square Enix is the major problem. That X-2 especially was considered to be horrid while XII was purposeless. And again, those are Square Enix titles, just like XIII is.
Spydr07  +   1470d ago
I left X-2 out because I forgot about it thru half the post and didn't want to go back and add it in, really. No other reason, really. And if you couldn't tell, I hated 12 so I essentially left it out due to extreme bias.

However, X and X-2 were both VERY linear. I'd argue nearly as linear as 13 especially since 13, if you played the post-game, was only linear for about 1/3 of the game.

As for the plot, that's just your opinion. I didn't find it nearly as shallow as your saying it is. Barthandelus was one of the more interesting antagonists in a while for the FF series.

The 'depth' point you're trying to argue was a deliberate element in the game. They wanted you to feel rushed. They wanted you to feel like you got caught up in the whirlwind and taken for a ride. So while not as overdone as in past FFs, the characters' history was summed a little more.

The sideplotes were the relationship between the characters. This is obviously something you didn't care about. That's the problem. You decided you didn't like the game and thus, everything that fallowed was crap. You didn't like the way SE presented the game. Tip: Don't decide what an FF game is based on the series' past. You wanted 13 to fit the cookie cutter game of past FFs and it didn't. Oh well.

I hope if you reply, you actually add details/specifics to back up your points. There's very little of that in your original post or any that follow. And don't use 14, it's an MMO and not even close to the same team. Move on.
PamPoovey  +   1469d ago
"Bland Lead Character (Lightning)~
Oh, yeah...really?
7 Cloud was an emotionless drone
8 Squall was a stupid emo afraid to love
9 Really, SE? It's a love story about 2 people who aren't even EIGHTEEN!!!
10 I got nothin'
12 All characters sucked, imo."

Have you actually played old FF games and understood their story....if you did you would realise that Squall/Cloud are the way they are for reasons EXPLAINED throughout the game.

Lightning was just bland...period

Every counter you've made against a truthful negative fact, people could counter you again. I won't waste my time through, it's obvious you wouldn't take notice.
Spydr07  +   1468d ago
As was Lightning explained why she was so cold if you actually played 13. It's explained why she doesn't get involved and prefers to continue, um, how was it said, "moving forward".

Since you want to be a smart@$$~

Mako poisoning and he's just an idiot who believes himself to be someone he's not (Zach).

He just had mommy issues. Losing his parents/sister messed him up...boohoo.

Similar to Squall as she acts the way she does because of her sister and the L'cie. This is explained during her travels with Hope and the scenes about Serah (her sister, if you didn't know).

So yes, it was explained. Maybe not ad nauseam like Cloud and Squall were, but it was. So...questions on being wrong?

And you completely missed the point of my posts, which is probably why you missed Lightning's backstory. I KNOW what people have said about 13, I said I was aware of them and still liked the game. I also said I was just illustrating that nearly every FF I've played has the same flaws peope are attributing to 13. I could repeat everything I've already said but I won't waste my time tho; it's obvious you wouldn't take notice.
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saf100792  +   1469d ago
Ok after playing a bit more i'm really actually starting to like this game. The storyline does pick up. Leaps and bounds better than XIII but i do wish they still had summons and more than just two party members and a monster.

Few quirks here and there but i don't think the game should get as much hate as it does. No its not VII or VIII or X or whatever but its damn sure not the worst game ever. If they can find a good mix of old features and this game i think they'd be golden. Never been a fan of the accessory system would much rather it be junctioning or materia but that would be asking a lot.
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adamant715  +   1468d ago
I honestly think the combat is outdated. Other than that, I think the game was pretty good.
izumo_lee  +   1468d ago
Even though the game had (arguably) the weakest story, characters (sans Sazh) & few memorable music, i enjoyed the game to an extent.

Like some have said every Final Fantasy game is linear but the problem with FF 13 is the game made it too obvious the linearity of the game (the mini map didn't help that). An easy fix would be to eliminate the mini-map & have it like Star Ocean 3 & the map reveals itself where you go thus 'hiding' the linear nature of the game.

The characters just didn't appeal to a lot of fans cause the story they were in & script were just very poorly done & written. When you have to read synopsis to understand the development of these characters & world they are in you fail to care eventually.

Even with all its faults i gave it a chance & even finished the game. My absolutely main problem with the game is the tedious nature of it, when you have to grind hours upon hours killing monsters (damn turles!) for a chance to get an item it slowly becomes less fun. I didn't find the game 'FUN' at all in the end it became a chore.

My analogy of FF 13 is it is like the 'item world' in Disgaea. It is all about grinding from point A - B to reach the next part. I love Disgaea & the item world but at least you can exit & do other stuff....with Final Fantasy 13 you don't have that luxury.

I will no doubt buy 13-2 & i will finish it as well. If i have fun with this game is something i am not sure about though. Will it be fun or another chore again?

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