drdistracto707 (User)

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Consider yourself a rat: Homophobia on N4G.

drdistracto707 | 540d ago
User blog

Four days ago I submitted an article titled "The Fight to Get Gay in Video Games" (you can find it here: http://n4g.com/news/1465453... Submitting any sort of article is something I don't do very often. I also don't comment very much. One of the reasons I am a slack contributor is the rampant homophobia that needs addressing on this website. The reason I put up something so apparently "out there" was to get fodder. Consider you, as part of the N4G community, my (terribly biased) sample for my (terribly biased) social experiment.

Mass media effects, in a theoretical point of view, is understood to be less about what media do to us than it is about what we do with media. The moment any news item or opinion piece mentions the least bit of transgression, N4G users hive around it to mine their conservative short-sightedness. The media is not shoving something down your throat, it is giving you an opportunity to stand on your soapbox. Homophobic comments like this one from Hozi89 – "Please don't. I won't spend my money for gay games. I am straight" – go to show the insecurities of many posters here that are gratified by the oppression of anything considered "other."

"Other," by the way, includes anything that isn't male, heterosexual (yet not sexually active for any purpose other than child rearing), thin, white, middle-class, and Christian. You are othered from this community and many at large if you are fat, gay, black, latino, asian, or even hair-colored. Take note, because a gamer is also "other." A gamer is in their own marginalized group. Why? Because you don't abide social normality of leisure. Leisure of tradition is reading; reading latin.

We are all marginalized in some way or another. The reason media has to be progressive is in the hopes that someday, most people of this world won't have to feel labeled by language, but rather feel incorporated into it. You may think that your idea about "gay is wrong" is equally valid, but really you are just trying to defend the heteronormative ideal that, for centuries, has killed, persecuted, and enslaved humans that have no defense against their "poorer genetics," (according to you).

Some of the terrible comments on "The Fight to Get Gay in Video Games" are as follows:

DoggyBiscuit: "I dont mean to sound homophopic but why us gamers gotta cater to gays what ya expecting a game based on Unicorns and Rainbows"

Conan-O-Brady: "All part of the gay agenda first proposed by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen. This is just the beginning. If you don't like it prepare to be labeled homophobes."

starscream01: "I'm so sick of hearing about gay issues all the time......I think it's wrong. If you're a homo fine but don't expect sympathy from me. I have the right to feel it's wrong.The media tends to push gay rights too much.whats next pedophile rights? It's u natural and sick. Some people argue gayness is found in nature....so is parents of certain animals eating their own young make in that argument invalid."

Wheelman_Vince84: "What is world coming to? this is too much! it's bad enough that christian ran companies are getting sued because they don't believe in same-sex marriages so they won't make them a wedding cake at a cake shop or a get flowers from a flower shop, so they end up filing a lawsuit against that company because of their religious beliefs because of hate speech? BS! it's not hate speech! they have they're rights to say yes or no to things just like the next person. So they're going to target video game companies to sue next because there's no gay ppl in video games? this is waaaaaaay out of control! game companies better get ready for the lawsuits because they're arming themselves with attorneys! i don't have a problem with gays, but this just needs to stop, and it won't at this point!"

PSNintyGamer: "Why is the media always trying to shove Gay down our throats?"

This is sick. I hope that some of you can reflect on the comments you wrote or read. In fairness, though, I want to hi light some surprisingly thoughtful or respectably defensive comments:

DarkLord1003: "This thread shows what's wrong with the gaming community. You're a bunch of whiney young male hypocrites who have no problem jerking off to lesbian porn. But as soon as two male would kiss you somehow feel threatened and scared. And what exactly is the gay agenda? It's the most ridicilous thing I've ever heard. You guys live in a dream world - in a bubble absolutely unaware of the real world and the problems people in it are fighting every day."

ElementX: "You can't compare the relationship of two consenting adults to an illegal relationship with a minor. There is a huge difference. Same with animals eating their young, there a difference between attraction and what you decide to consume. Everybody should have equal rights for employment, housing, marriage, etc. These are social rights that other groups have. I can't believe you even mentioned those two examples, they are completely irrelevant."

These comments, in and of themselves, are not eloquent. They aren't utopian or perfect in their argument (neither am I), but they are in the right direction. They have grounding, understanding, and empathy.


There's already some good conversation going on, that's exactly the reason for this blog.

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jackanderson1985  +   539d ago
me personally i've no issues with a dev putting in a lead gay character... what i do have an issue with is people putting pressure on devs to purposely build games around gay males, female leads, lesbian females etc etc... if a dev wants to do a macho male as their lead character that's their choice

over the last year I've seen plenty of articles with headlines like "lack of female leads is a disturbing trend" or something along those lines....this is pressuring devs and publishers alike to adapt games to suit what is a minority... the majority of gamers wouldn't give a flying f***, i don't opt not to play a game based on the leads gender or sexual preference... i play if it's good (or ridiculous cheap, so many cheap crap games i blame steam)

in the end let the devs decide they'll do what they want and stop trying to force their hand to cater to the vocal few
SugarSoSweet  +   539d ago
Most devs aren't even willing to TRY female leads, gay leads etc etc that's the problem
coolbeans  +   539d ago
I think you're confusing devs aren't willing to try female leads with 'what they've been TOLD by publishers not to try' (in regards to AAA industry at least).

Bimkoblerutso  +   539d ago
Don't be angry at heterosexual male gamers and developers because they want characters they can more easily relate to.

Yes, it is a shame that the gaming industry is structured in such a way that games that cater to those demographics are ridiculously difficult to develop for, and I think a good chunk of heterosexual male gamers would even support the idea of making that process more accessible, but it is unreasonable to assume that female and homosexual characters should be getting as much exposure as heterosexual male characters in an industry that still consists mostly of heterosexual males.
FriedGoat  +   537d ago
I don't see the reason why sexuality is even being discussed. Who gives a shit if pacman likes the D?
nirwanda  +   537d ago
I personally believe the sexuality of the character you control should not even feature in a game, hardly any games have sex scenes for instance because its hard to bond with another character you can't touch or feel in real life.

It works in film because your viewing it in 3rd person and other people's emotions never have to reflect your own and the actors are also mostly human and beleaveable (some of the time) and we haven't reach that level of beliveablity in game.
pixelsword  +   539d ago
There's not a lot of variance in terms of racial diversity as well; in gaming, groups are not just facing a sexual glass ceiling in not having women in games, but a racial one as well.

It's up to us programmers, developers, writers, and designers to make sure the voice of the voiceless is heard.
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nirwanda  +   536d ago
A lot of things that work in cinema won't work in gaming without a huge change in attitude towards gaming as a media.

Could you imagine the uproar if you controlled the lead character from African history X or was a was a slave in a game about slavery.
The same is vice versa for film even a plot driven game like BioShock wouldn't have worked or could you imagine flappy bird or Terri's.

I think more could be done with online gaming it could do so much more with co op storys,.
NYC_Gamer  +   539d ago
I don't really care about a characters sexuality in gaming or a persons in real life..I'm fine with developers adding gay characters long as they aren't doing it just for shock value...It's hard for certain folks in society to accept things that differ from the belief they follow/were taught while growing up.
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rdgneoz3  +   538d ago
Yep, one that really sticks out is how Last of Us handled it. It was there, but not blatantly in your face for shock value.

"It's hard for certain folks in society to accept things that differ from the belief they follow/were taught while growing up."
Luckily this generation seems to be turning in the right direction, which will hopefully continue.
Christopher  +   539d ago | Funny
People in general are at least slightly homophobic when it comes to people changing things they like.

Imagine if you will that there's this really nice Enchiladas Norteno platter you like at a restaurant. It has just the right beans, the right tortillas, the right sauce, the right rice, and even a nice and properly prepared 6 oz. carne asada on the side.

Now, imagine if one day you went to the restaurant and they changed the beans from what you like to perhaps a white bean instead. You try it out, but it's not the same. It's different and, to you, not as good as it was before.

When you ask the waiter why it was changed, they inform you that they made this change to show support for a "special" group of people who like those type of beans (probably some whacky Pacific NW people).

This is kinda of like how it is with video games. People liked how they were and they feel that adding in the options changes what they liked. Many people like not having to "deal" with sexual issues in their games (though, you could argue they do deal with them by asking them to be ignored, thereby showing an underlying desire for the whole thing to just go away as a whole). And when you make it a big change and put focus on it, it annoys them.

tl;dr I'm hungry and white beans should never go with a traditional TexMex platter.
Cat  +   539d ago

I feel like I should get some sort of credit for inspiring this droll anti-white beans in tex mex composition.
Christopher  +   539d ago
Totes ;)
Conzul  +   539d ago
Well Said
bicfitness  +   537d ago
Except your analogy operates under the assumption that the restaurant is "replacing" one type of beans with another. Acceptance and equalization of rights for race, creed, religion - yes, Christianity IS a freedom - sexual orientation and gender is not about removing liberties but extending them to minorities. So in this case the restaurant would offer white beans AND black beans. Outside of highly scripted or budget conscious games,there's no reason not to offer a female character, or even have a cursory dialog tree for you to make a pass at your commanding officer in military FPS #28972629 (perhaps only to get shot down, because hey, not everyone is gay - but at least the choice is present). Its about choices. No one's rights or liberties are being infringed upon simply because there is inclusive content in a game.
ITPython  +   537d ago
There was a recent Kotaku article saying that we shouldn't expect to see gays in video games anytime soon, and that article specifically said that games like Mass Effect didn't count because you could CHOOSE to be gay.

Here's the article in case anybody wants to read it:


And I quote from the article:

"Note that he's not talking about games like Mass Effect, where you can choose to be gay. Nor is he talking about a peripheral character, or some DLC. He's talking about picking up the controller and knowing that a blockbuster game's main protagonist was gay."

Apparently the freedom to choose isn't what gays want. They prefer shoving it in our faces forcefully and demanding that we accept homosexuality, or else we be labeled as homophobes.

Interesting thing about gays accusing others of being homophobes. There is absolutely no way to disagree with homosexuality without being labeled as homophobic in return. Kind of strange, don't you think? Also homosexuality goes against Christianity beliefs in a very black and white way. Which automatically means that if you are gay, or agree that being gay is perfectly Ok, then you probably aren't a Christian and/or would start doubting your Christian beliefs.

Hmm, anybody see a pattern developing here? You know, Christians being the enemy because they don't believe that homosexuality is right. And how you can only agree or disagree with something as long as it fits a certain criteria, otherwise you get labeled as homophobic, racist, bigot, etc?

The day is coming when people will fear disagreeing with homosexuality because it will paint a big fat target on them to be ridiculed, harassed and even have their lives, and/or their families lives threatened. It is already happening, anybody remember the Chic-fil-a stuff? Or the Duck Dynasty stuff? The amount of HATE gays have for those who don't agree with their ways is very extreme and volatile.

I always find it hypocritical that gays say that everybody should accept their beliefs and lifestyle, but strangely enough they refuse to accept other peoples beliefs and lifestyles that disagree with their own. It's basically "You should have to agree with us, but we don't have to agree with you" kind of mentality. ie, hypocrisy.
bicfitness  +   536d ago
Nowhere, in any of my reply did I say Christianity was under-attack or less of a right than the choice to live a gay lifestyle. This is the typical straw-man that people who ALREADY have freedoms tend to use. No one is asking for Christians to be marginalized. However, it may feel that way when the accepted, ideal, societal standard is to be anglosaxon, Christian in America. To people who fill that category, other minority groups being brought into the fold of societal acceptance certainly feels like an 'attack'. Christians already have the freedom to practice their beliefs, congregate and openly wear signs of their faith. There's nothing else for them to fight for, and yet, the religious right spends vast amounts of time and resources dedicated to suppressing the voices and choices of minority groups. So there is a conflict in logic here. You can't enjoy freedom of speech and lifestlyle yourself, then claim that you are A.) being maltreated or B.) Turn around and say that someone else's choices are affecting your freedoms.

Its doesn't work that way. Muslims are opposed to certain Christian beliefs, that doesn't mean they should be marginalized in America. Gay people have conflicting attitudes toward Christianity. That doesn't mean that one or the other should simply "shut up" or go away for the sake of the ones who decide to take offence. Part of an inclusive society means that you almost surely will not agree with every choice and word that comes from your neighbor. It goes both ways, and often hardcore Christians forget that they have been top of the pile for centuries now. So I can understand the aggression and fear that they may suddenly have to share the spotlight for religions, beliefs and lifestyles that they don't agree with. Oh, well. Life goes on.
Fez  +   537d ago
I think you're analogy falls over because people are not even willing to try the new recipe. When they hear the restaurant is thinking about changing to white beans there's an outcry that "white beans are wrong". Even though the new beans will only slightly change the taste of the overall dish, the customers have been brought up in a society where white beans are not acceptable beans.

It's funny how people think even suggesting that there should be more diversity in games will force developers and specifically writers to make games they don't want. But I think most writers would prefer to right a story that's a little different. The negativity towards diversity in gaming will most likely lead publishers to make more of the same, meaning this viewpoint will actually limit what developers have the possibility of doing.
ContinuePlay  +   539d ago
Some of the comments highlighted there are disgusting and the people who made them should be ashamed of themselves.

Just goes to show that the gaming community still has a long way to go before it will be taken seriously or granted any sort of respect by the wider mainstream culture.
Conzul  +   539d ago
Since when has being respected by mainstream culture meant that you are doing something *right*?

I'd be terrified if the masses approved of me. A sure litmus that I myself am vapid and irrelevant.
iliimaster  +   539d ago
mannn i say enough with all this its not needed in games clearly... or it woulda been im tired of this being such a huge issue now
DragonKnight  +   539d ago
Before I dive into the meat of your blog, your (or those of like mind) answer to the following question might have a significant or minimal impact on how I respond. So here's the 2 part question.

First: Why should the interests of any special group, be they gay, feminists, otherkin, or Pokemon, take the forefront of any game just because said special interest group wants it to?

Second: Considering that all games, no matter how realistic they may appear, are fictional, what purpose is served in making fictional people exhibit fictional and superficial characteristics in the grand scheme of the game's world and/or story?
Christopher  +   539d ago
I think when you say "take the forefront" you are putting that out there as to how you see it as opposed to what people actually want/have asked for. People want a more diverse selection of personal relationship options in games, they don't want it to be at the forefront of their games, just a part of it.

If we primarily had just Caucasian characters in games, would you say it would be a "forefront" issue if people asked for more diversity in the race of characters in games?

It's not like they're asking people to change the gameplay or main storyline of a game.
DragonKnight  +   539d ago
Forefront, in the context with which I used it, is merely an expression. Essentially it means "more prominant" or "increasingly necessary"

Basically what I'm asking for is "why does it matter so much?"

We're talking about fictional worlds and people here. So if we're going to start, or see, movements designed to bring awareness to the development community that people of special interest are wanting said interests represented more than they are now, we have to ask ourselves why.

Personally speaking, I don't think sexual orientation, political opinion, or gender identity should be a consideration in game design. Most games are being designed so that you play the role of someone else you aren't, not someone you are. So if more games were made that had, say, homosexual main protagonists then who relates to them the most? How does critiquing the game change due to this fact?

Why is it necessary? I'm all for change, but only change that improves the final outcome, not change that's there simply to be there because some people either transfer themselves to the game world/characters they are playing and thus don't like to not be themselves in a fictional world, or change that's there because it's the "flavour of the month" so to speak.

Unless the game is designed so that you are supposed to feel like you are the actual character in the game, i.e. Skyrim, Dark Souls, etc, I see no need to appease or cater to any specific group or their interests because a good game is a good game regardless of the character's sex, gender, race, or sexual orientation.
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Christopher  +   539d ago
***Personally speaking, I don't think sexual orientation, political opinion, or gender identity should be a consideration in game design.***

These things are involved in our personal lives. It's nigh impossible for them to not be a part of story and character development in some way or form.

I see a point in not purposefully putting them in just to have everything in it, but I don't see it being a problem if it's what the creative people behind the game want.
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DragonKnight  +   539d ago
"These things are involved in our personal lives. It's nigh impossible for them to not be a part of story and character development in some way or form."

Not really. It's very easy to not put something in any form of artistic design. The point is that these things aren't necessarily conducive to increasing the quality of the game. They bring nothing to the improvement of the story or characters and are superficial at best. It makes me think that people only want these superficial aspects in a game so that they can feel that they are represented, rather than that it is for the benefit of the game.

I mean, can anyone actually provide an argument for the representation of any special interest group in a game that isn't "well it would be diverse?"

Is there any argument that can be made that can prove that it would be beneficial to the game somehow, or is it just that some people want representation and that's all they want?
Christopher  +   539d ago
***They bring nothing to the improvement of the story or characters and are superficial at best.***

That a massively subjective statement and one that is up to the creator to determine. As I said, people pull from what is important to them in life. To say it "bring[s] nothing to the improvement of..." is a bit myopic in my opinion.

I think you've gone a bit too far in your assumption on importance to the creative mind and are making blanket statements as to the overall role these social issue play.

Papo y Yo is an excellent example of a game where one's creativity is driven by what is of importance to the individual creating it.
DragonKnight  +   539d ago
I think you're being a bit too broad in your perception of what improves a game or not. Can you conceive of any situation in which a fictional character's sexual orientation is beneficial to the story, or gameplay, unless the game is specifically about sexual orientation? Does the fact that Ellie from the TLOU is a lesbian in any way improve her character or act simply as another fact of an already well-designed character?

I don't think anyone can say that something like this will ever, objectively, improve the game. Subjectivity is irrelevant as what is subjectively good to you is not objectively good for the game.
Christopher  +   539d ago
***Can you conceive of any situation in which a fictional character's sexual orientation is beneficial to the story, or gameplay, unless the game is specifically about sexual orientation?***

Every relationship and the reason behind it is important if the story is well done to begin with. It all depends on the story to determine if it's of value.

You say I'm being "broad" when all I'm saying that the "importance" of it is up to the creative minds behind it. But, you are taking an even more "broad" point saying that it has nothing to do with it at all and shouldn't be a consideration unless it's a game about said topic.


Here's what I'm saying.

Are you okay with the representation of a "relationship" between two or more people in a game?

If your answer is yes, does it matter their sexual orientation at all?

If it doesn't, then what is the issue?

I'm not saying it "needs" to be in the game. I'm saying it's up to the creative minds to determine what they want or think the game needs. The fact people say they'd like it in games only goes to show that a portion of people like it. You don't care, that's fine. Your opinion also matters. But, those choices in a game still need to be determined when there exists relationships between one or more people in a game.

Does this decision change gameplay? Only if the relationship is the target of the gameplay.

It's really not an important element. If the gameplay and story are good enough, I'll play a game where there are no relationships, where the relationships are all hetero, or where the relationships are all same-sex. It won't change the game for me.

But, it's not up for me to decide if that's what should be in the game or not. It's up to the creative minds and what they want/need.
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DragonKnight  +   538d ago
That's the thing though, the instances where sexual orientation would be of any significance are so minute and highly specific as to be nearly non-existent. In fact, the only real way sexual orientation would ever matter as a gameplay element is if the game is about sexual orientation or relationships. Even in a game that has a relationship within the game, sexual orientation is irrelevant. Unless of course someone comes along and makes a game about prejudice and discrimination and hate.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree that sexual orientation is relevant in any real way in making a good game. I can only see it mattering to people who have a need to transfer themselves into the game world/character. I really can't think of any instance where sexual orientation would improve the game in any way.
Christopher  +   536d ago
***I'm sorry, but I can't agree that sexual orientation is relevant in any real way in making a good game.***

No one said it was relevant to making a GOOD game. But it is relevant to making a game... It's a creative decision made by the game designers and they have all the right in the world to do with it as they want.

Again, you didn't answer any question above at all, which had NOTHING to do about making a GOOD game and everything to do about the creative decision on how to handle a relationship in a game.

*** I can only see it mattering to people who have a need to transfer themselves into the game world/character.***

So... RPGers? I mean, immersion is one of the most important things for RPGers... And those are also the situations where options in one's relationship is left open for such things.
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maniacmayhem  +   539d ago
I agree with Dragon Knight.

Why is there a need to push a character as being gay? What impact does it have on the game design, gameplay, or function?

Does the character being gay have any sort of effect on the main story? If so then elaborate and tell a good story using those elements. I don't care what sexual orientation a character in a video game has, as long as that game is fun, i'll play it.

Here is my problem though, a game(or anything)that absolutely needs to tell you their gay just for the sake of being gay and nothing else. And that goes for any race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. etc.

Mass Effect had options where you could go for the same sex if you choose. It was reported by the media but it wasn't made a big deal. It had little to do with the overall story. It was "tastefully" done without it having a huge spotlight over it and PR'd as a main selling point.

I have a problem with the gay community needing to find or verify acceptance by announcing to the world they're gay. And if anyone has any complaints then its an automatic "homophobic" tag placed on the person. And I live in San Francisco, so I see this everyday.
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DragonKnight  +   539d ago
Exactly. I'm glad someone understands.

Change just for the sake of change doesn't really improve anything. If anything, people could criticize it as playing to a fad rather than trying to create a compelling story or character. And I'm sorry but, unless the game is specifically about being gay, straight, trans, black, or whatever, then those options aren't necessities and are merely options that are just there for the sake of it.
kalkano  +   539d ago
"Conan-O-Brady: If you don't like it prepare to be labeled homophobes."

And, it happened.
coolbeans  +   538d ago
That was a comment that stuck out to me too, though not just for laughs at it being prophetic now. It's difficult to jump into examining Conan's comment b/c it's a.) tough to assume one's intentions with such a short statement and b.) a bit of a minefield that risks heated responses. But...what the heck, I suppose.

-I guess the thing that initially draws the parallel to the work 'After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's' Conan mentions and the article is the title phrasing this as some sort of "fight" to be had. The article itself is more innocuous then that title since it focuses on talking to a video game designer + opinion piece but I honestly can see how a rational person could still get that sense of "marketing" also found within Kirk and Madsen's manifesto.

-The latter two sentences could be sort-of considered prophetic now that they've been listed here.

I could be looking at this totally off-base, but it doesn't really strike me as a comment to be grouped there. It's definitely not eloquent, but it brings historical context which strikes me as something that's at least worth directly challenging said user on instead of just running off to make a blog and outright shaming him. Technically, by making the net so wide on what's deemed homophobic, you run the risk of lessening the term's impact or actual meaning, just like the game community seems to have done to words like "white knight(ing)" and "pretentious," to name a few.

Hopefully I weaved through that well enough.
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kalkano  +   538d ago
"Technically, by making the net so wide on what's deemed homophobic,"

The word "homophobic" is already defined. It means, "afraid of homosexuality". VERY few people are homophobic. Most people that are labeled "homophobes", are just morally-opposed to it.
coolbeans  +   538d ago
^Didn't mean to hit disagree since I see what you mean. Reading my quoted part, and that last sentence, wasn't the perfect way of putting it, now that I see it.
coolbeans  +   531d ago

The suffix "-phobia" can be used to mean any of the following: an irrational fear, a dislike, an aversion, or a hypersensitivity to a specific stimulus.

A bit late but oh well.
Mr-Dude  +   539d ago
I live in Holland, one of the most tollerant countries of the gay in the world. People need to realise we live in 2014, and not in the 1950 anymore. People who are homosexual or lesbian or even bi-sexual have all the right to be happy as any other living creature on earth.

BUT! Lately, all the news about the gay is becoming to much since the Olympic Games. The pussy riots, protests etc...
Two of my colleages (one lesbian and one dude bi-sexual) even they say the news makes it all worse and much bigger than it is. My point off all this, is stop living in the past and be happy to be alive, we are the new generation are we not?
DuB  +   539d ago
I prefer Chinchilla, my homophobia is measured by proximity , when is to close to close....well I leave that to your imagination ...

Just like to add I have stretchmarks Grander then the crack of a plumbers daughter. Ok now you can run wild.

Is also from the 707 I roams from Calistoga to Santa Rosa and beyond.
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DuB  +   539d ago
It's ok to disagree, I prefer a PD's Kraken to my stretch marks as well. 8(
Conzul  +   539d ago
UGH! I hate that word so much.

Also, half of the comments he posted for examples were Statements of Preference, not anti-gay. The rest were just humorous.

I don't consider myself a hater, nor do I wish to make anyone else's life difficult because of their sexual preferences, but I WILL NOT be told what I can and cannot say.
It'll probably get me killed or something in this lovely brave new world we got going, but I don't give a shit.

Edit: I'll just leave this here XD
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Roccetarius  +   539d ago
Catering to special minorities is the worst thing companies can do now, since their games are already lacking in quality.
GutZ31  +   539d ago
Just learn japanese and korean.
Plenty of Gay/lesbian/Bi games to play there.
madpuppy  +   539d ago
Frankly, "Special interest groups" Should NOT force a developer to support their agenda, No matter what it is about or whether it hurts "feelings" or not.

That is really the problem here, One group trying to force others to support their agenda.

There probably are a large amount of programmers that are possibly gay or strongly support gay rights, What they should do is group together and start a development house to make games geared toward gay issues.Or have gay characters in them.

Then , you don't have to force other people to support your agenda.

To be honest, I'll support the Developers Artistic right to make any damn game they want, unfettered by others "agendas" Political or otherwise.
NihonjinChick  +   539d ago
I have no problem with homosexuality, and I am absolutely open to any video games that feel the need to touch on the subject. However, I don't support people forcing developers to put things into their game.

I myself wish we had more games that allowed me to create a custom character that is a woman, but I'm not going to force developers to do it if they don't feel it's necessary. But I would love if more developers did it.
beebap  +   539d ago
Personally I also like when you can customised your character to be female it breath of fresh air when lot of games has you running around as a male.sexually never matters onless relationships are part of game but Im talking about games like mass effect dragon age.What probably some people in gaming community want is for homosexuality not be novelty and be represnted in game that involves a normal gay person that gets into adventure but gay part of this person is only shown if it required for story and no big deal from the media because the person is gay which is why maybe some game writers have not went down this route as the fuss some people would create would not be worth it. Haters have to hate this sound weird becauseim mainly talking about religious groups here when talking about this.Religion is teaching hate why people get brainwashed into thinking only certain people are right and they are only allowed to live as equals. Hopefully will look back in years and this unrepresentation of gay people has changed in whole media including games as slowly females are getting real characters not fantasy ones but that maybe more female gamers now or we are more vocal now about what games we want. So maybe it is time to be more vocal about this issue.Being in internet age also helps.
aLucidMind  +   539d ago
What developers need to do is stop making their characters in such a way that it is clear they're pandering and forcing the issue. What's so bad about having a badass character that happens to be gay as the main character? Nothing whatsoever. The problem is when developers make it seem like being gay is the focal point of their character, even when it clearly isn't.
thorstein  +   539d ago
Or when gay characters are stereotyped. My favorite characters are exactly like you said. Ever see the remarkable movie Philadelphia with Tom Hanks. Wonderful narrative with a great character who happens to be gay.

And I think that is where this debate needs to go. Make a great dynamic character. Homosexuality (when making a character) should be secondary. (Not homosexuality itself) just the focus of the character.
Lukejrl  +   538d ago
While I agree with you, I think of Billl in last of us. The problem I see, is this and excuse the graphic description: your hero guns down the enemy and saves the world, to go home and get a nice blowjob from his partner.

The image is just not what society has put to people since medium has gone visual. And where the majority of people are hetero. So while we often don't fantasize about after the game, knowing the character is enjoying gay sex instead of hetero could be what makes people squeamish.
Ikonic  +   539d ago
So, my thing with the whole gay issue is that if you're gay, you're gay. There isnt much a person can do about it and that is something i really believe. But the thing i do not care for is when they are gay and make a huge deal about it constantly shoving it down my throat that they are gay.

In gaming, I dont see a big deal with it. Mass effect had it within their universe, and it was fine there wasnt a huge big deal about it. In the end though it is going to be whatever the devs want to do. Whether they touch on the subject or not im fine with either way
newflesh  +   539d ago
I like gays who don't freakin shout about it left and right. Just #dealwithit. I for one don't give a flying *uck about it
Arroz2003  +   539d ago
Your article is very informative, although very biased. You paint anyone who does not agree with a liberal view point as a homophone or a bigot. Truth is it boils down to a pure philosophical debate and perception.

You cant just stereo type everyone though can you? I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle ultimately because of my religion. I live in a very liberal place so I have several homosexual friends. My best friend is bi by the way. They know how I feel.

Lets break down the homophobe types. You do have your super right wing nut jobs, ignorant uneducated people, religious nut jobs, and haters.

Personally I don't hate anyone. I hate hypocrisy. Religious people say no to homosexuality. Yet play games where you murder people....that's every other game. That is just as "wrong". Ultimately if your gonna complain about homosexuality being in video games you should stop playing 99% of games.

We have horrible violence in video games, out of marriage sex scenes and other ethically "wrong" things. I say they can make whatever they want. Why censor on publically perceived wrong over others.I wont buy a game that screams I am gay and fighting for rights just like I don't watch LOGO. But there are people who will. Make the game and if people want it they will buy it.

Please don't use words like bigot, homophobe, religious nut job on people who simply disagree with you.... that is ignorant and offensive to me. We should love and respect each other no matter our particular world views.
beebap  +   538d ago
Homosexual lifestyle??it not lifestyle choice it their life but cant use religion as excuse and wash over it like thats ok. It is not wrong so you should be offended them three words are describing you. You say u dont hate tho and fair enough not being hypocrite when there is violence in games other 'wrongs'should be shown. Ok but you still calling him wrong all because the way he was born that is just him. You are 'wrong'with the world because you chose to allow yourself to beieve these wrongs because it is organised religion then it is acceptable. Yes we all different views on world but dont use religion as excuse just say you are homophobic.
goldwyncq  +   539d ago
Homophobia is probably the most misused word on the face of this planet. I don't care about sexual orientation so don't expect to get any pat on the back whenever someone mentions that they're gay. We KNOW you exist, no need rub it on our faces.
#19 (Edited 539d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
MightyNoX  +   539d ago
Your blog post has inspired me to write one of my own to tackle on this issue. Hope you enjoy it.
beebap  +   538d ago
And according to some gamers the word sexist is overused but then the person says something sexist so cant agree as I cant agree with gold comment about dont rub it in our faces by that you appling thats what will happen if about gay person or do you want so that the character to almost seem any sexuality.Anyway it should be good story first of all and only show relationships if part of story if you trying to say that there shouldnt be about it just to get noticed. But also maybe should be more openly obviously gay games as maybe enough people want it now as gaming as a media has grew. people still buy them oversexualised woman games like that fighting one so why not have a gay one women are allowed to be blatenty sexualised for straight people is the intented market. We have the choice not to buy it.
hazelamy  +   538d ago
how many games these days have relationship options?
why shouldn't they have gay options?

seems like every other game features a heterosexual romantic relationship.

but no, they're only "forcing" sex into these games when it's gay.

it's always shoving it in people's faces when it's gay, but heterosexual relationships are everywhere.
hell there's a recent ad for butter where two kids, one of them sound like they're like four or five, are making breakfast in bed for their parents anniversary, and they walk in on them having sex.

so don't bother with the, "i'm ok so long as they don't force it down our throats" bullshit.

if video games were around in the 60s, i bet we'd be having arguments about why black people should feature in games.

and don't tell me the gay rights movement is nothing like the civil rights movement, not when there are bigots trying to make it legal to discriminate against gay people for the simple fact they're gay.

not when there are countries that have laws that can have people executed for being gay.
NihonjinChick  +   538d ago
"how many games these days have relationship options?
why shouldn't they have gay options? "

Well, maybe that's not how the creator of the game wanted the character to be portrayed. Maybe the creator of the game wanted his character to be heterosexual, it was his vision. There are plenty of games that offer relationship options, but some of them are based around a character that the developers of the game created themselves in order to get a story across. That character being in a homosexual relationship might not be with the story calls for.

As I stated, I'm all for a game that puts these types of things into them. But there is no reason to force someone to change their own vision because you want something that caters to your specific demographic.

As a woman, I want more games where I can play as one but I don't feel the need to try to force developers to put it in their games. Maybe the plot of their games calls for a male character? I would completely understand why they didn't do it.

I realized that not all games are going to cater to what I want, but that's okay, I just support the developers that have games that do cater to me. If you go around expecting people to change how they envisioned things just because you want them to, you're going to be disappointed.
#22.1 (Edited 538d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
hazelamy  +   538d ago
what if the creator wants a gay lead?

you'd get all the idiots bleating about how "you shouldn't shove it in our faces"
and how many publishers would be ok with their game having a gay lead character?

and anyway, i was really talking about people's reactions.
so many always complain about it being forced at people, yet never complain when heterosexual relationships are front and centre in many other games.

it's that kind of veiled bigotry that really annoys me.
Ravenor  +   536d ago
The issue always lies in what the overall video gaming buying community is. I won't say it's predominantly white males, but it's definitely predominantly male. Combined with what the AAA Publisher and Developer community is largely made up of. Dudes.

There will always be a market for games like Atelier, Gone Home or The Wolf Among Us. But there is also a massive market for shooting dudes, and that's always going to influence what is being developed and how it's developed. I guess the question is, would a character like Drake be better, more likable and more interesting if he was gay and instead of Chloe and Elena it was Bob and John? It wouldn't make a huge difference to me, but I can see it alienating some.

I guess where I will leave this is, Gay characters have featured fairly prominently in things like GTA4 all the way to Enchanted Arms. It's not like AAA is opposed to gay characters, it's whether or not the market is willing to accept a gay lead and whether that can be done subtly and in such a way as to not offend the easily offended or we can just hope for a new Fear Effect. No one seems to complain about attractive Lesbians.
mixelon  +   537d ago
You know, the amount of disagrees you're getting really bolsters my already negative view of a big portion of this community.

Really what's the point? Have you ever heard anyone from outside of n4g refer to it in anything even approaching a positive way? I haven't, the community is like a self parody. I wonder if it's worth it?
JoeGlasgow  +   538d ago
As a gay gamer I don't really care about the orientation or representations of characters in the game so far as they don't detract from the immersive-ness and enjoyability of the gaming experience. Unlike life, gaming is complete fantasy where anything and everything can happen - it can be the one place where small things such as race, creed, sexuality or religion cease to matter.
Ravenor  +   536d ago
Bang. That's dead on.
#23.1 (Edited 536d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
saber23  +   538d ago
Stop being a bitch and man up. If you are gay then whatever.
mixelon  +   538d ago
N4G is a hive of: children, the closed minded, uneducated, homophobes, religious fundamentalists, nut-jobs and fanboys. Respect for posting an opinion you must have known would rile up a lot of idiots.

I'd be happy to see more minorities represented in games. Couldn't do any harm. It sickens me how people see fit to cast judgement on others who are doing no harm to anyone.
lex-1020  +   537d ago
You fall into at least 3 of those categories if that how you view people.
mixelon  +   537d ago
I didn't say everyone's like that, did I?

As a community i haven't seen many worse places for quality of comments. :) there are always a load of good people too. I wouldn't bother posting if it wasn't for those guys.

The only one of those i can see myself fitting in is "nut-jobs" , as thats down to interpretation, really. I can state pretty clearly I'm not a child (not even close), closed minded (how so?) uneducated (objectively speaking, i have a BSc? Less objectively, i make sure to have some understanding of social/political/design issues before speaking) homophobic (well, obviously) a religious fundamentalist (not religious at all) or a fanboy (i see merit to all platforms, even niche ones)

Which 3 did you mean? Open minded does t mean you have to be open minded to bigotry and stupidity.
NirvanaInChains  +   538d ago
But why does sexual orientation matter to begin with? You can be gay in Fable. Jacob in mass effect is the perfect gay character imo its not shoved but its enough to know his background. Oh Big gay al in the new southpark too so there is more gay in gaming than you think. Its added for story not to base a game around. Would it matter if mario was gay or not? no. How would you make a gay oriented game anyways? Steal another game formula but have all gay characters? A game is a game you dont get different stats or perks based off of sexual orientation. Argue about the gameplay not the orientation of a character. Besides that keep sex out of games its cheesy to begin with.
SegaSaturn669  +   538d ago
Bring on the gays. As long as I don't have to play as a female.
Lukejrl  +   538d ago
He was being sarcastic to all the clowns who put the disagrees.
_FantasmA_  +   538d ago
I like games. Gay charcater. Cool. I'd rather play as gay character than a woman. Even better I want to play as gay brown or yellow person. Tired of playing as blacks and women. We been PC for those two kinds of people, now lets cater to the others. No I'm not being sarcastic. You don't have to be gay support gay rights.
KonsoruMasuta  +   538d ago
A character being black or a woman is not a developer being politically correct. That is the most idiotic statement here.

Most of the time it is the developers choice and that's how they wanted it to be. You shouldn't have to "cater" to certain groups at a time. If the developer want it to happen, it will happen. If the developer doesn't feel like it's not necessary, it's not necessary. It's not done for the sake of being politically correct or because the heterosexual white male feels the need to "cater" to a certain group.
arbitor365  +   538d ago
with all the immaturity around here, you have to expect some general xenophobia and whatnot.
AceBlazer13   537d ago | Bad language | show
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