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DragonKnight (User)

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"Respect is not something to just be given. It is the result of accepting principles as worthwhile."

It's Another Feminist Agenda Day

DragonKnight | 1072d ago
User blog

You know, I think I'm seeing this everywhere far too much, and I'm not even looking for it. Today, Anita Sarkeesian released her first Tropes vs. Women in Video Games video on Damsels in Distress. It's about 25 minutes of incoherent tripe, erroneous factoids, some french thrown in to make herself look cultured, and a continuation of the anti-love/anti-sex/anti-women- wanting-to-be-with-the-man-the y -love attitude that she's always had. She disabled ratings and comments on the video because, although she claims she's all about discussion, she's against being proven wrong and prevents anyone from being able to do that as much as she can. If you feel like facepalming eternally, then go ahead and click the proceeding link.

Watching that video really induced some serious rage within me. I was fully ready to make a blog post dismantling every single word she said to expose her as the ignorant, hate mongering, opportunist she really is. But in all honesty, that is a huge undertaking that requires more energy than I'm willing to expend at the moment.

Instead, I turn my attention to Adam Sessler's review of God of War: Ascension. Towards the end of the review, Adam turns on White Knight mode when Kratos beats down on a Fury, steps on her head which crushes it, and a trophy that says "Bros before Hos" pops up. Adam spews off the feminist buzzword "mysogyny" (and of course misuses it) when referencing this particular trophy, and a war erupts in the comment section of his video. Sides are drawn between the White Knights and the "It's just a joke"/"It's just a trophy" crowd. This trophy is being linked to all manner of hate, from racism against Africans and Jews, to homophobia as the very descriptive nature of the Internet is used as a weapon in this war.

I thought it was only there that this was happening, but nope. A cursory glance on google turns up a multiple of "a change is needed" articles about how misogynistic God of War: Ascension is just because of a frickin' trophy and thousands of Politically Correct fools who take things WAY too seriously. God of War is actually relatively absent of gender inequality. Kratos is an indiscriminate killer, and he faces many female adversaries and even the goddesses/female titans themselves. But that's not apparently the problem. A trophy is the problem. A kilobyte of lights that has a saying so old it's become a cultural cliche of frathouses and "thugs" is what is being used as the banner for this war.

You want to know the absolute best part of this? Most of the fighting is happening between men. Women are barely discussing this at all.

See, this is why games and social issues should be separate. Games should be allowed the freedom of expression that many cultures enjoy. And people need to stop taking everything so literally and seriously in life. The eventual arguments of "you can't say that because you don't know... blah blah blah" are going to come up, but to that I say this. What good has this "movement" done for the world lately? Because all I can see is constant fighting, misinformation, misrepresentation, and focus being placed in the wrong area. There shouldn't be a movement whose goal is "equal rights with no responsibility" and it damn well should not seep into games.

Frickin' lighten up people. It's a goddamn trophy alright.

And for the last time, misogyny is a profound hatred or distrust of women, alright? Hatred or distrust. It's not a woman in a bikini being looked at by men. It's not Princess Peach being rescued by Mario. It's not a trophy name. It's hatred. Hatred is a strong word backed by strong actions. You want to know hatred? Auschwitz was hatred. Slavery was hatred. A trophy name isn't hatred. If you're going to use such a polarizing and damaging term, use it correctly.

TongkatAli  +   1072d ago
This is what's going on.

DragonKnight  +   1072d ago
LMFAO! That was perfect.
Blacktric  +   1071d ago
"And for the last time, misogyny is a profound hatred or distrust of women, alright? Hatred or distrust. It's not a woman in a bikini being looked at by men. It's not Princess Peach being rescued by Mario. It's not a trophy name. It's hatred. Hatred is a strong word backed by strong actions. You want to know hatred? Auschwitz was hatred. Slavery was hatred. A trophy name isn't hatred. If you're going to use such a polarizing and damaging term, use it correctly."

I think I love you.
SilentNegotiator  +   1071d ago
You'll note that despite lots of disagrees on this comment page, no one has made a comment in rebuttal to the blog. So....cowardly white knights, too.

I saw an article the other day that suggested that Lora Croft shoved some equipment up her "tomb". People went straight to claiming that no has ever made such jokes about male characters shoving "magically disappearing" (you know, when they switch weapons/equip. and it seems to disappear) weapons up their butts. Except, wait, yes they have! Jokes about magically disappearing weapons have been going on for a long while, and yes, the male buttocks has been a target of these jokes before.

There's just so much airy BS attached to the issue of sexism (or heck, any civil issue, really) that gets in the way of actual progress on the real issues. So much is forced, from concepts to executions, in civil issues today; firefighters must lose out on jobs because (literally) less qualified black applicants called racism and brought it to court in Chicago, women must become half of the CEO population NOW (even though CEOs are mostly experienced old men from an age when infinitely less women were working), if you're not for this or that policy you "hate" that's downright frustrating to see all of these unrealistic, forced expectations.
SageHonor  +   1071d ago
America is very polarizing.
Wintersun616  +   1069d ago
Couldn't agree more with you.

I remember back in 2007 when me and my wife were laughing at how it looks like Kratos pulls the Barbarian Hammer from under his kilt/skirt or whatever it is.
zerocrossing  +   1072d ago
I watched that video and ugh... I really wish I hadn't, she's just hate mongering and spreading misinformation that's being hidden behind carefully crafted words of concern and understanding, I would love to have a debate with her over all of this but I fear it would be a waste of my time since a resolution to all of this isn't really what she is after.

We all know games aren't perfect and yes there are some feminist issues that need to be addressed but let's not pretend it's causing any real harm or enforcing any negative viewpoints towards women's, I can honestly say It hasn't effected me negatively in that respect anyway.

I love playing Mario and Zelda games and I have never seen Peach or Zelda as simply an object that needed saving, I see them both as the most important characters in their respective games, that absolutely must be rescued because the lands and people they rule over simply cannot do without them, it may harken back to an old over used plot device but heck one of these main female characters actually has her name in the title of every game! in such a way it actually makes pretty much every Zelda games story focus much more about Zelda than it does even Link, I never once heard "Anita Sarkeesian" address that, probably because it would be a great disservice to her attempts to wrongly label these games as being misogynistic.

Anyway nice article and good food for thought, IMO.
#2 (Edited 1072d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
DragonKnight  +   1072d ago
I don't know who could disagree with you, unless Anita followed me here (and I hope she did) but you are absolutely correct. And the thing about Zelda is that she is so important that, in Zelda 2: Link's Awakening, the King of Hyrule made it law that the first born princess be named Zelda for all time. I mean, that's frickin' honor right there. Plus, she casually glosses over Peach and Zelda's role in Smash Bros., only mentioning in passing. She really is just hate mongering.
zerocrossing  +   1072d ago
Im used to getting disagrees when talking sense...

Exactly, they even build on Zelda's importance in Skywards Sword with her relation to the goddess Hyllia.

Anita is just fuelling the flames of a long time debate with absolutely no intent in offering any advice or opinions on how or what should be done to solve this apparent problem she's so concerned about.
DragonKnight  +   1072d ago
Someone doesn't like you, so far you're the only one with disagrees.

And yeah I know, Zelda is linked to a goddess but that doesn't matter to Anita because Link has to rescue her. Nevermind the fact that if we were to do a body count of how many men have been murdered, tortured, or brutalized in any way over the 30 years of gaming, the number would definitely reach the millions. It's interesting that no one is looking at the potential nihilism the male gender portrays in gaming, that men are always being killed or killing.

No, that in no way is a problem at all. /s
zerocrossing  +   1071d ago
I won't name any names but Im pretty sure I know who here is responsible for those disagrees.

Another point a user made right here on N4G (I forget who) was that we constantly demonise people who are portrayed as our enemies in games, and like you say they are much more often than not male in gender.

I know there are a few exceptions to this but they are far and few between, we make it acceptable to kill other people in games by branding them as evil and declaring we (the person we are playing as) are good and just.

It would be interesting to play a game where the line between who is right and who is wrong is blurd, very much like it is in reality IMO.
#2.2.1 (Edited 1071d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report
HonestDragon  +   1071d ago
I watched that video, too. I actually facepalmed quite a few times during it. It's funny that she only pegged the Mario and Legend of Zelda franchises and even early arcade sprite titles. The thing I would want to stress to her is that the age of gaming that she is blatantly targeting was when it was in its youth.

Since video games were young and new to entertainment, staying safe with common fictional tropes was not uncommon. Good guy versus bad guy, woman in need of help, kid heroes, fantasy meets reality, living dreams, etc. All of these were common back then. We didn't have very sophisticated graphics and storylines like we do now. If she wanted this video to be more well received, then she should have started with today's games not games from the past. Origin should be considered as a precursor of reference, not the main source.

What I find interesting is that she is cites mythology. She's really reaching far and wide here. Women had many important roles in many mythologies across the world, but she zeroes in on one particular story and never mentions another one (only paraphrases). What is also interesting is that she mentions that Zelda and Peach being playable in franchise spin-offs don't count in the larger picture because they aren't playable in the core series, then brings up the idea that women are objects in video games.

She never once considered other games that had no gender at its base of a man or woman in distress. She actively avoided mentioning other franchises in the 90s that actually had good women characters. Again, it would have been better had she actually put more neutrality and research into the side of games that don't use cliches.
matgrowcott  +   1072d ago
While I do think there are gender issues that need to be sorted, I think the story behind this video is pretty lame.

She takes thousands of dollars. Disappears for 9 months. Results in a video containing things that we've all largely been saying for years.

And why did she get thousands of dollars or even a modicum of attention? Because nasty internet men were being mean to her.

If she really believed in what she's pedaling, she'd donate a little of that money to charity, or give it back to people who paid for the series.
#3 (Edited 1072d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
zerocrossing  +   1072d ago
Or better yet start up a games company that produces games that she feels represents women in what she considers is the "correct" way.

buuut that aint gonna happen, she's just there for the attention and isn't at all about trying create a solution to the problem but rather and fuel to a tired argument that industry is still hard at work fixing while she moans as if nothing is being done to represent females fairly in video games, smh...
majiebeast  +   1072d ago
So they dont wanna be treated as damsel in distress but they cant be torn to shreds by Kratos either? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Im so sick of feminist/mangina's that bitch and moan how women should be treated equal then whine when a female character gets ripped to shreds. Should i go bitch that Lara Croft only kills dudes?

Its like those women on twitch/youtube they have a boob cam and cleavage thats almost spilling out, but when you comment about it they get offended.
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SageHonor  +   1071d ago
Kratos? hhahha, Are they even aware Kratos has been known to torture, dismember, and mutilate the men in god of war. Hence the Poseidon and Hermes boss fights. Or shit.. how about Cronos and Hercules. The men have gotten it alot worse in those games. Kratos will tear anybody to shreds. That's equality. hehe
WarThunder  +   1072d ago
I wasted my time watching 2 min of that video......
DragonKnight  +   1071d ago
I apologize. I know it's a waste of time, but it has to be seen to realize just how misinformed Anita is. She's hate mongering and people really need to understand that. Since she actively blocks all discussion that could be used against her until it can be used to her advantage, we have to talk about it somewhere. Feel free to leave her a tweet though. Lol.
WarThunder  +   1071d ago
You don't need to apologize :D what u said is 100% true.

This person Anita doesn't represent all female gamers... She is giving bad image to women.
She is kind of person who think she/he knows everything and the rest are stupid. Thats why she blocked rating and comment on her video....

Sorry for my bad grammar. (English is not my main language) :)
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Heavenly King  +   1071d ago
wishingW3L  +   1071d ago
it's funny she had to turn-off the rating system and comment section because of all the hate. ;)

But seriously, on another note, why you keep putting punctuation on the tittles of your blogs? Tittles have the first letter of each word capitalized and they don't need punctuation! Like this:

"It's Another Feminist Agenda Day"
Megaton  +   1071d ago
Offended people ruin everything.
DragonKnight  +   1071d ago
I'm going to use my last bubble to make a final statement about the word misogyny and why it doesn't apply to Bros before Hos.

Misogyny is defined as the profound hatred and/or distrust of women. Etymologically. the word misogyny was coined in 1650 and literally means "woman-hater." There are several examples we could use to describe hatred against women. Serial killers who target only women (i.e. Jack the Ripper), the rednecks on shows like Jerry Springer who believe themselves to be kings over women and force their wives to do embarrassing or menial things for them, rape. These are actions that can be described as misogynistic.

To see the word misogyny used against a trophy name is truly befuddling because it shows no hatred towards women. When we can acknowledge that people are using transference to equate the word Ho (or Hoe) with hatred based strictly on their own emotions and experiences with the word, and not in a logical analysis of the word, we can see why people are making a mountain out of an ant hill.

The word hoe is used against men AND women. It is used BY women. The word hoe is a slang term that means a promiscuous person, though in "ghetto" language it's much more colourful. But how can a word denote hatred against women if it is used to describe both men, and women? How can it be misogynistic if women will use it just as much as they perceive men to use it?

Then there is the word "B*tch." How many women do you know that call their best girl friends "my b*tches?" That's ok though right? That's not at all misogynistic because, like the N word with African Americans, the B word is being used by women and women couldn't possibly have a profound hatred or distrust of other women right? In point of fact, have any of you listened to how women speak about other women? They say things far worse than any man ever has.

Adam Sessler seems to think that the trophy name trivializes the violent act just committed against a creature that ISN'T a woman. The character is a female of her species, but she is NOT a woman. He is being overly critical, and nitpicking. It may not even be his point of view since he claims that everyone at Revision3Games participates in writing the review, but if that's the case he shouldn't be speaking as though he is personally offended by it. It's very clear that most don't know what misogyny actually is, and the white knights of the world are going to ruin gaming just as they have contributed in the continued removal of men's rights in society.
HonestDragon  +   1071d ago
Misogyny is a word that some people just don't know how to use properly. The same goes for "overrated", "cliche", and "generic" being misused by many people, but I digress. When the word "misogyny" is used in terms of describing themes or characters in video games, it is most often for the worse.

In these cases, those who use the word don't know how it actually works or what it truly means. To say that Peach or Zelda represent misogyny is ridiculous. The damsel in distress is just a common plot device, not misogyny. I think this is where people like Anita get it wrong. They use the word to forcefully get a point across that they don't like this character or this idea with a word that is negative in meaning.

I don't think anyone blatantly makes their female characters to be misogynistic. If they were, then the female characters would be completely stereotyped to the nth degree of what a patriarchy society (like Anita mentions) would expect of women. I can do an analysis of many female game characters and tell you which ones are good, well done characters and which ones are terrible, one sided characters. In any case, I don't see her actually trying to do that. She is going in one direction: the negative direction. This series doesn't seem like a healthy avenue for topics of tropes in video games either.
joab777  +   1068d ago
Stop it...u r disrupting the discussion with facts. I thought everyone knew that emotions and feelings drive true, effective discussion. And that the ends justify the means. I am obviously kidding. I could not have written what you wrote any better. It is perfect.

Now, many may disagree with me and its fine but I think that much of this is a direct result of the relativistic society that we live in. There no longer exists any absolute morality or right and wrong. It is up to each person to decide and it is driven by emotion. This is why it is so polarizing and why facts are twisted with such ease. It will only get worse too. Political correctness has become our new evolving morality and the offended, it's preachers. We are no longer ruled by the majority but by the minority. This is a great example. It doesn't matter if 90% of people take no issue. All that is required is a small minority burning with anger and an agenda to force a large corporation to make changes.

Activists have realized that you no longer have to convince the multitudes of your cause, you need only be loud and persistent and you can change the world (so it agrees with you,of course). I know I am on a tangent but it is relevant. And unfortunately political correctness is here to stay because no one will ever agree on truth, thus ppl will continuously be offended. Video games seem to be the target recently and its sad. Great article. Thanks for writing it. And how can PC be any good if it was coined by none other than Josef Stalin (I am pretty sure, I don't wanna be loose with my facts lol).
#9.2 (Edited 1068d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
InTheLab  +   1071d ago
The irrational hate for this woman and her theories is out of control. This blog is about Adam Sessler's bulls*** but here we are talking about Anita again.

What about Sessler? Anyone?

Edit: Well, at least one of you is talking about him...
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Godmars290  +   1071d ago
And what's the worse Sessler's done? Pointed out something most would have ignored and dismissed? Dinged a game on that minor issue?
coolbeans  +   1071d ago
Gave the 2008 GOTY award to Fable II.

Sorry, I had to say it. :P
coolbeans  +   1071d ago
Although Sessler's white knight stance against something as innocuous as a trophy takes up the majority of this blog, both the title and first paragraph (w/ link) are included in order for both cases, or just one of them, to be discussed by anyone.

I think Sessler's case is interesting because it breathes this possibility of how "making mountains out of molehills" (like in this case or critics' case in Cloud Atlas being racist because a white actor gets a 'multiple-race' role) could possibly lead to unfair review scores. Don't get me wrong, he mentioned enough other problems to justify his opinion of the final quality of the title; but, when you're evaluating the overall score and happen to hint at a frat boy trophy description annoying you, criticism from the community is to be expected.
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Godmars290  +   1071d ago
Here's a counter point:
Megaton  +   1071d ago
Excellent video.
HonestDragon  +   1071d ago
Nice video. Have you seen this one? I got to admit that the Amazing Atheist really makes a good analysis on this subject and responding to Anita's video. He isn't being antagonistic or a bully toward her. He is only making an observation and giving feedback. This video I have linked shows a unique view in regards to when he made points about male rights issues.
_FantasmA_  +   1071d ago
its only offensive when its towards women or blacks. But people can say kill whitey and show guys getting kicked in the nuts and not only is it okay but it considered comedy. In bending over backwards for women so that they get reparations, our balls have now been removed and now we can't even joke about boobs or legs, or anything because the misandriasts won't STFU about it.
Nes_Daze  +   1071d ago
These type of women make my blood boil, God help the man that has to put up with her sh*t.
Game0N  +   1071d ago
Very good post. I agree wholeheartedly.
JohnApocalypse  +   1071d ago
I feel like the videogame websites are try so much to make gaming look like an anti boys only club that they will give shit to anything that might offend women in the slightest
MeatAbstract  +   1071d ago
Very well said and a great blog.

When I watched that review I was thinking to myself was it a big deal? The fact I wasn't particularly bothered nor insulted by it, did that make me some sexist guy? Well, after watching the review from Sessler I asked my girlfriend what she thought about it. She basically shrugged and wasn't bothered. She isn't a stupid person or anything, she has strong beliefs and opinions, I just think she knows what is worth arguing and debating about and what isn't and a trophy in a computer game isn't one of them.

I'm amazed this issue has received as much attention as it has. It's silly and shouldn't be taken seriously and worst of all, as you said, it's white knights (men) stepping in to defend women because they're terrified of being labelled as misogynistic.

This is a playful stupid joke. If me and my girlfriend are having an argument I'll sometimes jokingly say "Shut up and get in the kitchen". Do I mean it? No. Does she know I'm not serious? Of course. It's a playful, tongue in cheek joke, just like when she says "Boys with toys" when I show far too much excitement for a new game, I know she's just joking.

It's not a big deal. Move on people.
Count  +   1070d ago
You tell your girlfriend to ''shut up and get in the kitchen''?
MeatAbstract  +   1070d ago
Said it a few times when having a 'not-so-serious' argument, yes.
Ravenor  +   1070d ago
What got me a little bit more upset about the conversations being had in response to the Sessler criticism wasn't that some people vehemently agreed with Sessler, you are as always free to your own opinion. It was how many of those who agreed would use examples of a hypothetical racist achievement objective and name to illustrate their point.

I was discussing this issue with my girlfriend, and she mentioned something I had always thought about but had never put down on paper for fear of most people being unable to look internally and at least silently see the truth in it.

A lot of gamers who frequent this place and others like it, likely have various issues with understanding your average woman. Your average woman is incredibly judgmental and "objectify" men based on several attributes. Women go through the same type of screening process for partners, the idea of being sought after only for looks isn't something exclusive to men.

Last but not least, one comment on the article putting forward the idea that Sony Santa Monica harbored some kind of animosity/Misogyny towards women was just ludicrous. Basing this theory on the portrayal of women in the God of War series is a fools game. Kratos having a pair of women as the God of War (GoW2) or the scene with Aphrodite aren't exactly far fetched portrayals if you look at the time period and tone of the fiction in general. I would say it's also balanced out greatly by Athena and Gaia, both being noble and yet cutthroat for their own gains.
masteroftheclaw  +   1069d ago
It is as much as a "Feminist Agenda Day" as "Gay Agenda Day". Neither of these "agendas" are real being my point. Feminists speak up every day but it is only in the past few years that it has been deemed allowable in gaming circles. IE: Destructoid posting about Tropes VS Women whereas it would not have been shown on the site back when it started.

If you do not want to listen to it, then don't. If you watch and read "feminist agenda" works knowing full well you will dislike them, then you're only seeking to become angry, which is not something one should seek.

Finally, looking critically at media does not mean that it is an attack on that form of media. Film fans regularly critique characters, plots, and every other aspect of movies that they love. Many times they even do so with an eye for racism, sexism, or other unfortunate aspects. Someone trying to discern social aspects of games is doing much the same but applied to a different form of media. Just because someone is critical does not mean they are trying to condemn or erase that form of media from existence.

Anita may be wrong or right by your account but she's only ever able to voice her opinion on the matter. Everyone writing here is also voicing an opinion. As you are allowed to, so is she, whether you (or gaming as a whole) like it or not.
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matgrowcott  +   1069d ago
My issue, if you ignore the ridiculous backstory, is that she's dissecting tropes, which is ridiculous. I defy you to hit tvtropes and find a single entry from anything you've ever read, watched or played that can't be boiled down to something tired and dull and potentially offensive.

My question is this: if it was Peach vs Female Bowser and Mario was the "damsel in distress", would it still be sexist? Would Anita still be talking about it?

We've taken a lazy story and turned it into something it isn't. I think that's why people are getting annoyed.
masteroftheclaw  +   1069d ago
You bring up an interesting point. If we suddenly saw a string of games with Peach saving Mario over and over, yes, that would be sexist. Sexism goes both ways, after all. However, even though there ARE sexist depictions of men in games, male gamers do not speak up against it. Mostly I think it's because gaming is not Peach vs Female Bowser but a boat load of male power fantasies. Why should a man be concerned about being treated powerfully?

There are feminists who discuss the many hurtful stereotypes against men, but as the name of this series is Tropes Vs Women, it is predictably all about women.

Video games such as the original Donkey Kong (and other arcade games) are all supremely lazy with storytelling. It wasn't even much of a concept until later on! But one must wonder why are these the default stories we tack on with nothing else on our mind? Because of an inherent social predisposition to believe in the concept of women as lesser, most likely.

As for lazy storytelling as a whole though, gamers should be mad at that as much as anyone else if it persists in the modern age. Yes, there are games that come out these days with great narratives, but there are still a bunch of incredibly dull stories that have been told a hundred times being pumped out. We might as well see some story innovation alongside graphical.
matgrowcott  +   1069d ago
So then it isn't the base idea that's sexist, but the repeat of that base idea? Then the trope would be fine if Mario and Peach took it in turns to save one another?

But then, how would that work generally? If both Mario and Peach are strong enough to kill Bowser individually, why would either one bother dodging holes and squashing goombas to rescue the other? Further to that, why does that even need to be an issue? Surely it's sexist to imply that all women need to be strong enough not to have to be rescued? Surely it's more damaging to imply a multiple kidnapee has a weak character, than to admit it's Bowser at fault?

I think there's a point where we can look at things too closely. Seeing any attack on Peach as an example of victim-baiting might just be around close enough.

Don't think I disagree with you about your general point. There's definitely a need to try and balance out the way females are portrayed in the medium. But I do think there comes a point where you have to pick your battles. Custer's Revenge is misogynistic, Mario isn't.

There needs to be a reason for Mario to run and jump to the right in every single game. More recent games have had him saving Luigi, or Toad, as well as Peach. At what point does rescuing Peach stop being about rescuing a weak girlie who can't look after herself, and become about the most recognizable video game character of all time rescuing his friends/girlfriend/ruler?

This is why picking specific examples - especially from a series over 20 years old and with only one damn story line - is a minefield. I feel things are getting better as women are becoming more a part of the community, but then, I don't think we'll see more female leads soon, and that's because of people like Anita. They'll break anything you do down to tropes, and punish you for it.
Kratoscar2008  +   1069d ago
I still cant believe she got 160K for this S***
ShaunCameron  +   1069d ago
I can. There are plenty of men willing to do anything for female attention.
Kratoscar2008  +   1069d ago
Sad -_-, very very sad -_-
etebitan  +   1069d ago
really stupid people.. pay for "attention" from an girl who will post videos on utube... I'd rather give my money to a hoe or a stripper if i wanted female attention so bad...
-Gespenst-  +   1069d ago
I can't believe the ignorance on N4G. 100% missing the point.

Pretty much nobody in these comments understands the nature of representation. You have to step outside of the world of the game and realise that it's a game made by other people- other humans. Humans bring their assumptions and preconceptions to everything they do and these manifest themselves in various ways. Games aren't free from ideology and power. People who make games inadvertantly reproduce and inject their own assumptions and preconceptions about race and sexuality and violence into videogames, and by and large, those views are completely juvenile and devoid of the sophistication, complexity and subtlty that characterises reality. The very fact that you've written such a article shows that you're totally implicated in that mind set. I mean, the amount of people, including yourself, expressing anger at this woman! It's because you don't like the idea of an empowered intelligent woman, that disturbs you. You clearly have inculcated gender biases. Sure you can say it's because she's badmouthing your videogames, but is that really it? She's impinging on your worldview as constructed by videogames and films and the media and you have nowhere to run to.

When every woman in a videogame is portrayed as a big titted etc. it's sexist because it's clearly based off an entrenched norm of how women are supposed to look and be. It's juvenile, stereotyping and oppressive to women who don't match that paragon, and when it's transmitted into culture, it gains traction. Lazy uncritical people absorb this crap and it becomes part of their world view. When Kratos crushes a FEMALE character's head and you are rewarded with a trophy entitled "Bros before hoes", yeah it's supposed to humourous, but it contributes to an overall cultural flippancy towards the issue of misogyny. Yeah we can laugh about it, but it's still a serious political and social issue. It depicts a female figure, who I might add, is unusual looking (what does that say) being brutally killed by a ripped, impossibly masculine figure, which is a highly questionable sexual politic. It's about the symbolism. It's about regurgitating the societal norms of a patriarchal society that you've been silently indoctrinated by. Your adherence to definitions too! God! Don't you realise words have connotations and contexts? Misogyny in it's abstract, basic definition form of course means hatred of women, but misogyny is manifest in culture and society- channelled ideologically into the media. It's a hatred of women in the sense that it's an oppression and destruction of a representation of the female form. It doesn't have to have physical reality to have influence. It's generally an expression of a latent hatred, for instance, if a powerful and intelligent woman is killed by a man in a film- more often than not it carries an ideological subtext- the disarming of female empowerment- the fear of an empowered woman. If you're so adamant to stick to your little definitions though, here's one for you, the oft overlooked second definition of sexism: Attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.

I mean, you even base your hatred off a completely ill-informed idea of feminism- one transmitted to you through the cynical shallow media. Have you read Simone de Beauvoir? Eve Sedgewick? Judith Butler? Roland Barthes? Are you at all familiar with Michel Foucault? Jacques Derrida? Martin Heidegger? Maurice Merleau-Ponty? Slavoj Zizek? Fredric Jameson? Jean Baudrillard? Are you at all read in Gender / sexuality / race / cultural studies? Critical theory? No. Of course you're not. Because you're culturally spoonfed and think you know things when you don't. Go to college. Stop writing off things you know nothing about.
_FantasmA_  +   1069d ago
Yeah and showing men as being wusses, getting hurt while doing construction or other manly jobs, being bad fathers and cooks is not bad? Why is it funny to say that men have small weenies? Read the Second Sexism by David Benitar. Why do women usually win custody battles? Why is that all woman has do is lie and say some guy raped her and he gets thrown in jail and his reputation ruined? Can I accuse a woman of raping me without getting laughed at? Am I supposed to just let a girl walk up to me and punch me? Shank me? Shoot me? And I'm supposed to just take it and not fight back because "men aren't supposed to hit women?" I'm sorry but I don't discriminate. I will hit a woman, so long as she hits me first. I would never be the first one to throw a punch but if she does it first, then its on because its either her or me thats going down and its not going to be me I'll tell you that much.
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-Gespenst-  +   1069d ago
If a woman rapes you and you get laughed at it's only because of a sexual hierarchy that exists in society in the first place.

When did I ever say I condone violence done to men? All I ever said was that I don't condone the oppression of women. The power relations between women and men are asymmetrically in favour of men, and so men somewhat deserve a derisive treatment and representation to dissolve the exploitative and oppressive power of patriarchy.

It's the same enlightenment rationality patriarchy that instigated the slave-trade and objectified, commodified and colonized the bodies, minds and homes of hundreds of people. It's the same patriarchy that structures femininity around domesticity and passivity as if it's some sort of pre-ordained natural thing and not totally constructed. It's the same patriarchy that nurtures hostility towards the LGBT community- that regards anything that doesn't fit within it's systemic boundaries as belonging in the periphery and deserving of oppression, derision and hatred.

Don't get me wrong, there are pressures on masculinity in society too, but they're all symptomatic of patriarchal asymmetry and aggressive, competitive, consumer, capitalist values. Why is it funny for a dude to have a small dick? Because it doesn't conform to some arbitrary paradigm of masculinity established by patriarchy. Women who mock such things are implicated in that system- have internalized patriarchal values- probably see themselves as exactly what a patriarchal system wants them to be.

The problem with striking a woman is that we've built an ideology around women. To enforce their passivity and "smallness" we make it wrong to hit women- women are protected by their smallness and remain exploitable by men because of it. It's all just dynamics of power and control.

When we represent men as "wusses" it's only perceived as funny because of patriarchal ideals. There are millions of men / boys that don't meet that ideal, and to exclude and deride them because of it is wrong. It's a closed exclusionary system. Such things exist all around us.
coolbeans  +   1069d ago
Although you're coming off a bit...strongly in your statements, I definitely appreciate seeing an adamant, well thought-out stance that juxtaposes the norm on here. I've also brought forth the idea of representation (in smaller bits) in Knight's past blogs and felt I made enough of a case there and in other articles(I simply got tired of the repetition of discussions).
-Gespenst-  +   1069d ago
Women are oppressed by culture and society - encouraged to eat a certain way and look a certain way, and generally shaped by men's aggressive interests (in mind and in body). Until only recently many men believed themselves superior to women- secretly believed they'd a God given role to be the strong leader figure, and that women are mere meat to provide pleasure and afford reproduction to continue a male legacy, which is a completely backwards cultural construction, and still persists somewhat today.

I mean yeah they're just games, but they're bigger now than they once were, and with the force of popular films and the media behind them, they have tremendous influential and ideological power. What you don't seem to realise is how much of an influence these things have on who you are, who you think you are, and what you think about everything around you.

Thankfully we're living in a world where these issues are beginning to be more fully recognised, but clearly N4G remains a pocket of ignorance- maybe even videogame culture in general.
ShaunCameron  +   1069d ago
Actually, women are the most privileged species in culture and society who reap maximal reward for minimal effort. The average female is generally sheltered from plenty of things the average male is subjected to daily. Besides, feminism isn't even a new thing. And the societies of the past that embraced it were those that got self-indulgent, greedy and lazy not to mention oppressive and ultimately fell off.

The funny thing is this "backwards" cultural construction have produced some of the greatest civilizations that ever existed and reasonably functional societies, and is the reason why civilization is even around today. Maybe this "backwards" cultural construction is exactly what God/nature intended.

<Until only recently many men believed themselves superior to women- secretly believed they'd a God given role to be the strong leader figure, and that women are mere meat to provide pleasure and afford reproduction to continue a male legacy, which is a completely backwards cultural construction, and still persists somewhat today.>
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Blacklash93  +   1049d ago
There are several societies that didn't embrace it and still fell to the same fate. Double standard, much? Civilizations have a life-span and fall to bad decisions, as anything.

Unambitious women raised to be good damsels are sheltered. Emergent culture based around utilitarian survival methods in harsh environments chose that women be unambitious and be expected for subservient roles, not women. That evolved and the culture men and women both conform to is to blame. We no longer live in such conditions, thus women are more free to pursue other roles. You grossly underestimate the stress and effort it takes to manage a home. too. That's something most men would struggle with greatly.

Women are intellectual equals to men. They have the freedom to pursue their dreams just like any man would. Or are you denying this? Don't dare use ignorant notions of what divinity and nature intend to push ideals of human inequality. Women deserve to be treated equally as human beings with the same shots at opportunities.

Technology, connectivity, and education are becoming more vivid and available. Political and social issues are getting more convoluted. Businesses are becoming bigger and conveniences are becoming greater. These things hold true to an extent for any developed society, especially in this modern era. Complications and sometimes fatal ones occur. You're completely forgetting that old saying about correlation and causation.

It sickens me this is still even an issue to discuss. No wonder we need organizations for Human Rights still. I don't like some annoying, oversensitive semantics some groups try to use to push misguided goals, but these are human rights that must be preserved.
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Christopher  +   1068d ago
***See, this is why games and social issues should be separate. Games should be allowed the freedom of expression that many cultures enjoy. And people need to stop taking everything so literally and seriously in life.***

Not going to happen. Expression on such a grand scale is going to have criticisms based on many factors just like books, movies, and TV shows.

I think this mentality is way off base as well. You and other, for some reason, want the Gaming Industry to live in a bubble outside of everything else, which isn't going to happen. More importantly, the trophy itself isn't a representation of the game and its story, it's a representation of the mentality behind the game.

I agree it's not misogynistic. But, it does show a crude and crass mentality on the people who make the game, which is just as telling as the mentality a writer/director like Tarantino shows in his interviews about his films and why he pushes the envelope.

I think it's fine to criticize such a thing, though I think you need to choose you words wisely in doing so, which I don't think Adam did.
Blacklash93  +   1049d ago
I'm more disturbed how Feminism went from being regarded as a revolutionary movement for womens' rights to people not even being able to sit still at the very mention of it over the past few years. Same for the very discussion of portrayal of women in videogames. People freak out.

Yeah, the God of War things was stupid. I don't know about this lady you're talking about, but why all the hate on her? Just ignore her if you don't agree with her.

Feminism has VERY vocal minority of radicals that makes real feminists ashamed to self-identify. It's about women being EQUAL to men under law and standards of basic rights, despite how some may pervert it.

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