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DragonKnight (User)

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"Respect is not something to just be given. It is the result of accepting principles as worthwhile."

Diversity is real

DragonKnight | 1298d ago
User blog

As many of you know, I've been vocal about the issue of sexism in gaming. Specifically; my stance has been against modern feminists who have been focusing on every negative pertaining to women in gaming and against the idea that this is an actual issue with real world implications. In discussing this, one point in the issue has been brought up consistently. That being the diversity of appearance in the female form. Apparently there is a lack of it and all women are disproportionate or unrealistic. So, this blog is to show some of the women in gaming that don't look like the DoA girls or Ivy from Soul Calibur or Rachel from Ninja Gaiden. In the interest of being current, I will only include women from THIS generation of gaming. The Past is irrelevant.

First up, there is Faith from Mirror's Edge. Here's a pic of her.

She looks pretty average to me. Athletic build and all. Does she seem like she's unrealistic? I don't think so.

Next up is Jade from Beyond Good & Evil.

Pretty normal looking wouldn't say? Nothing in freakish proportions here right? She isn't the kind of girl you'd see in an adult magazine or on porn sites is she? Not at all. Do any of you disagree?

Finally there's Meryl Silverburgh from MGS4.

Strong, great leader, and not at all unrealistic wouldn't you say? Do you see anything of her that doesn't in any way seem realistic? I personally don't. You can look up some female soldiers in Iraq and see plenty of great examples of women that fit the same mould as Meryl.

These are just 3 examples, but there are many many more, and none of these examples look anything like the DoA girls that some would have you believe are the only or main examples of womanhood in gaming. I personally believe that people claiming there is a lack of diversity in women in games are either blind, or upset that they haven't seen a girl that looks just like them, or their girlfriend, or their sister, or their mom, or whatever. There is plenty of diversity for you to see everywhere, you just have to want to actually see it instead of looking for problems.

And to drive the point further, look up the cosplay of the more allegedly unrealistic female characters. See those characters portrayed by REAL women, and I guarantee you you will find at least ONE woman who looks DAMN close to the actual character in REAL proportions as well.

Don't ignore the positives in favor of complaining about irrelevant negatives. Games are games, they don't impact the real world beyond possible addiction to them. A game no more promotes sexism than it does violence, stop treating them like they do.

Sephris  +   1298d ago
The only unrealistic thing I have seen when it comes to women is not the size of the chest, but the impact it has on women. for example, Lollipop Chainsaw has a cheerleader who has cachongas so big that a few flips should put her in bed with back pain for half a week. Boobs have weight. You get them flying around in a combat scene and the girl will be a stooped over mess at the end of it.
DragonKnight  +   1298d ago
That's why they're games though. They don't have to be real. Would you enjoy playing a game where that happened? Every time she did a flip you had to stop due to lower back pain? And if every woman in games had a gymnast build, that would also equal a lack of diversity. There comes a point where you just have to go with the fact that it's just a game. Not saying you personally, but people in general.
LightofDarkness  +   1298d ago
If you over think it, you will notice these glaringly unrealistic aspects of just about every game. Nevermind the fact that a girl of her tiny frame is somersaulting around the room, wielding a 40lb chainsaw that rivals her own stature, and all with peerless coordination and dexterity: it's the fact that she might have back-ache because her boobs aren't properly supported, that's the real reality check here :/

There are myriad examples, and none of them really matter. A man the size of Marcus Fenix shouldn't be able to leap into cover at the breakneck "snap" pace that he does (not without essentially splattering himself against it), for instance. Even more games depict hulking men with the agility of felines, where in reality they'd be hard pressed to perform the Macarena without throwing their back out (or even touch their own toes).
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Tuxedo_Mask  +   1297d ago
Yeah, when I saw the trailer for Lollipop Chainsaw I thought, "A zombie game? This looks pretty realistic." Then I saw her proportions and the jumping around she was doing and my suspension of disbelief flew right out the window. /s
ZombieNinjaPanda  +   1298d ago
Claiming misogyny in video games is definitely grasping for straws at this point. When there are much bigger issues at hand and you're focusing on video games (an entertainment medium) you know you're a joke and where your ideologies lie.
Theo1130   1297d ago | Immature | show
SageHonor  +   1298d ago
I can name a few more

The Boss/Joy from Metal Gear Solid 3
Malik from Deus Ex Human Revolution
Elena from Uncharted
Bastila Shan Kotor
Aveline Dragon Age 2
Nariko ( yea yea i know how she's dressed ) But she is a strong leader and fighter
Kte  +   1298d ago
Yeah at the end of the day, they are just video-games... people who complain about the way they does it matter if they are just games we control on a TV?
SilentNegotiator  +   1297d ago
Almost no one is "average" in movies, games, etc. Male or female.
Hufandpuf  +   1296d ago
Youre cutting it way too close saying almost. I'd argue that there are more "normal" people in movies than there are fantasized people.
DragonKnight  +   1297d ago
The above commenters have got it right. There is a lot of diversity in gaming if you just open your eyes to it, and a lot that is a lot more unrealistic in gaming as well. If we spent all of our time nitpicking at anything that was unrealistic, or claimed a lack of diversity in everything, we'd never have the time actual enjoy the games.

I have a very difficult time believing that MOST gamers pay that much attention to how a character looks unless it is an iconic character that has undergone very noticeable or extreme changes. There was a recent article in which the author of said article was playing Soul Calibur V with his girlfriend. In the middle of playing she goes "why are Ivy's breasts so big?" Now freeze that right there. I would like any commenters reading this to post as a reply to me exactly what the boyfriend was thinking about BEFORE his girlfriend asked that question. And I know we'll have the inevitable joke responses like "damn, dem's some tig ol' bitties" or something like that. But what I'm asking for is what you believe would be the most common thought process of a guy playing a game like Soul Calibur on an ordinary day. Would you say that he's pretty much just focused on the game, or is he thinking about what Ivy's wearing or the physics of her anti-gravity breasts?

And ladies, feel free to join in on this. I especially want to hear from the female gamers whose voice doesn't get to be heard. Namely the ones who don't give a damn and just want to play some more games. But share your normal thought processes. I ask because I highly doubt any guy, and even plenty of women, are thinking about how a girl looks unless drastic measures were taken to gain full attention from them (such as the topless scenes in some games) unless the guy is trying to get some from opinionated women, or has an opinionated woman in his life making him actually think about this stuff, and the girls have friends like that as well. But that's just me.
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juflors   1297d ago | Spam
Theo1130   1297d ago | Immature | show
coolbeans  +   1297d ago
True there is diversity in games...but you're missing my main point.
The reason I typically refrained from typical male/female body types in past posts about this was...simply because you have a point. The variation of 10/10, unrealistic male body types is pretty darn close to unbelievable female body types (although the variation in males characters can be absurdly different). Through some of my past comments on your feminist blogs, I've tried to show why it's not a problem for guys like us, like it is for women:

- In Part 1, I showed the disparity of women's median income WIDENING from men's as they reached their more unattractive years in employment(menopause to retirement).

- Both attractive male/female characters are serving the male heterosexual's desire portion of the brain, which is why we're not the first to ask "why are Ivy's breasts the size of her head?" when our girlfriend is over.

- Similar to the first dash when it comes to employment opportunities and pay raises.

I'm sorry to rewrite portions I've stated before, but figured it had to be stated. Even the examples you've brought up present a different angle from a marketing perspective. In this case, let's only count the two main characters in your short list:

- Both Jade and Faith are close to being considered typical body types. Do you think that had an adverse effect on their franchise's sales?

When you're talking about investment firms and marketing looking at their perception of the average audience (tween to early twenties, introverted, and possibly get a cold sweat whenever they see a model on a poster), you see why the question I've raised isn't really conspiratorial. Now turn that earlier question towards Mario and you can ask "Does a dev's marketing team think a rotund woman with an excellent platforming concept could sell the same as SMG?" This is the cycle that's still ongoing for most of the younger entertainment mediums.

It only took me a moments notice to see a different angle and a little bit of time to write this out. I'm not trying to nitpick because I all of a sudden "hate" games. Despite vile business practices clawing their way onto the scene, I still enjoy playing games. That's also why I sort of like this 'Tropes vs. Videogames' series. Sure, 90% could be awful (let's wait and see), but 10% of it could influence developers to display a greater amount of gender equality in games and the marketing of them. Recent vid worth watching:

In the end, I certainly think Pt. 1 is the top blog I read this month (and more culturally relevant any of the winning ones I've had), but I can't stand this idea of everyone with a dissenting opinion from yours is either a) having self-image issues or b) not seeing enough good-looking woman IRL. Why do I feel like I'm being treated like an antagonist when I'm just attempting to show another side of the arugment?
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coolbeans  +   1296d ago
I wanted to personally point out that the "antagonist" part at the end, among discussing other facets of the argument, has been clarified by DragonKnight (blogger, if you didn't know :P) through PM.
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thorstein  +   1296d ago
How about the lead in Assassin's Creed III Liberation?
Ravenor  +   1295d ago
Every female character in a Valve game.

Halo's female characters.



Every Resident Evil female character.

Lots of characters in the Deus Ex series.

Assassins Creeds female characters.

The list can get pretty long, and showcases some decent "normal" proportioned women.

What I think everyone and the Neo Feminists seem to miss, is that most of these games with the women who are designed with sex appeal in mind are JAPANESE games. Anyone who gets mad at Ivy's tits doesn't get Japan.
parkersd   1295d ago | Spam
Snarkasaur  +   1295d ago
I think games absolutely can reflect real life, particularly when younger women, say teen or pre teen, play a soul caliber or a dead or alive (though why would they), and then assume that's what their own body type should look like. It happens in the media every day, and the closer designers get to cracking the uncanny valley, the more of an impact it will have on reality.

The fact is, one of the tenants of any piece of art is how it reflects real human beings. Art is meant to affect the world, and video games come closer and closer to art every day.
coolbeans  +   1294d ago
I think that's what the argument tends to revolve around.
Most of my discussions on this case always lead back to both sides being dismissive about whether or not video games exist outside their own realm, and if they affect the real world.

I wholeheartedly agree with your stance, but not everyone does (yet).
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