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Chris399 (User)

  • Contributor
  • 5 bubbles
  • 5 in CRank
  • Score: 69170
"This site has gone to the dogs without an open zone. "

With Great Power Comes Great Irresponsibility (N4G and the state of mods).

Chris399 | 1333d ago
User blog

So yesterday on N4G, a rather fiery topic hit the front page regarding Crysis 2 running in subHD on the PS3. As you can imagine, it was a "lively" thread.

Over the course of that thread, a poster brought the 360's resolution with this particular title into the debate and how "sad" it would be if the PS3 was alone in its subHDness. I disagreed with this, as it has been known for some time that the 360 SKU was running in subHD resolutions as well.

A rather excited poster, "T" (likely a duplicate account as they joined a few months back and have done nothing but relentlessly troll) replied that I was wrong. To that, I linked the Digital Foundry article that showed that the 360 too, was subHD. The discussion degenerated from there into a riot of epic, fanboy proportions. Feel free to follow the thread here:

http://n4g.com/news/708210/...

Over the course of the day, my comments were applauded. I received a bubble (bringing me up to 5) and THREE "well saids". Now imagine my surprise this morning when I logged into N4G and had been stripped of TWO bubbles, had all my "well saids" removed, and had my final comment marked as a "personal attack".

Now the issue is not about the bubbles themselves, getting upset over digital status like that isn't something someone grounded in reality should worry about. What I am confused about is the flippancy and general disregard for certain offensive, bigoted or trollish remarks (the number of times I've reported people on this site for saying "f*g" or "n*gger" and nothing happens), and a totalitarian policing of others. I'm also concerned that a mod can take a generally well received and stated comment and REMOVE its accolades, even when it does not violate any ToS, simply because they do not like what is being said. If one comment is deemed offensive, it does not negate the other non-offensive comments. That is not moderation, its an abuse of power.

The real problem is that this is no longer a community-driven site, it is instead a fanboy cess-pool (getting rid of the open zone was a TERRIBLE idea) that is devoid of any constructive thought, comments or sensibilities. The community bubble system is an illusion. Much like Metacritic, the general consensus matters little, the WEIGHTED opinions matter far, far more. Beyond C-Rank though, I suspect that even a long-time contributor with a high C-Rank carries significantly less power than a Mod. What has been happening lately, are mods ignoring the general consensus altogether and bubbling or de-bubbling as they see fit, effectively corralling the opinions and posters that they do or do not want to hear. Yes, mods are necessary, but they can not moderate without REASON.

While I do not advocate this behaviour, it is little wonder that we have so many duplicate accounts and childish comments around here when the community is really just mimicking the actions of those few bad apples who hold positions of power within the site. I'm sure that there ARE good mods somewhere - in fact I know that there are - who silently toil away behind N4G, but my encounters with them have been sparse at best.

I'm curious to hear others opinions on the issues of mods, personal encounters (good and bad), and the effect of disseminating the open zone.

Edit: I'm not disregarding my general snarkiness by the 3rd post I'd made to the gentleman who felt the need to persist in arguing a dead issue. What I am essentially trying to focus on is why some voices are censored whereas others run unchecked.

Update: It seems that the other individual involved in the disagreement was finally moderated - a day later - for "trolling". However the two "well saids" have not been reinstated (or the associated bubble) by whatever mod REMOVED community opinion. That is the real issue and its an abuse of power.

WildArmed  +   1333d ago
We need to start a bring back the Open Zone petition ;)
INehalemEXI  +   1333d ago
Open zone was awesome :D
Active Reload  +   1333d ago
The open zone made no difference. In most articles I couldn't tell the difference between the two zones. My opinion of course...

I think what most people are upset about is the tweaking of the bubble system. It seemed before, the bubble system was in the hands of the community way more, while now its harder for us members to affect people's bubbles. Before it was like if one crowd is larger than another, the larger crowd bubbled each other up, while they bubbled down anyone else who didn't see things their way.
#1.1.1 (Edited 1333d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(5) | Report
INehalemEXI  +   1333d ago
Maybe a smarter filter is needed.
Wenis  +   1333d ago
I suggested the open zone come back on the forums a while back, but it the post seemed to have been ignored. :(

http://forums.n4g.com/tm.as...
rockleex  +   1331d ago
The old N4G had it perfectly balanced.

The people who trolled articles of their rival console and post nonsense never had more than 1 bubble, while the ones who post constructive comments usually had 6 to 10 bubbles.

On the new N4G, I've experienced what Chris399 is speaking of multiple times.

By the way, it seems like the mods have closed Chris399's account.
#1.1.4 (Edited 1331d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
HolyOrangeCows  +   1333d ago
Totally agree. Not only was Open Zone a fun place for harmless trolling and silly fun, but it kept the crazies at bay.

"Over the course of the day, my comments were applauded. I received a bubble (bringing me up to 5) and THREE "well saids". Now imagine my surprise this morning when I logged into N4G and had been stripped of TWO bubbles, had all my "well saids" removed, and had my final comment marked as a "personal attack"."
-
Welcome to my world. Just replace "personal attack" with trolling. The beauty in it is that "Trolling" is a broad and ambitious term, not discriminating those with genuine feelings and points with relentless trolls.

I lost all 5 of my bubbles (Over the one I have now) in TWO WEEKS. After having them for several months, BOOM. Mods started targeting me and marking me for ridiculous things. Contacted several active mods with very pleasant PMs....no responses. Not a SINGLE response.

I constantly see trolls from one side flourish while the others always get what's coming to them.
Comments sucking up to the mods get instant "well said's".
Good comments often get swept up in comment "raids" where every comment, in a row, that looks even remotely like it's not saying "Yeah gaemz!" gets marked as "trolling"

Oh and it's always that 5 day old comment that gets marked as "trolling" for me. Like they don't even want me to know.
I try to take a look at old comments up to 5 days old, and by my count, I should have gained more bubbles. But for all I know, I've received "Trolling" markings for 10+ day old comments...who knows?

As for your tangle with Mr. T (as I shall call him to avoid "Personal Attack" markings myself); this character is a troll, likely another Bungie clone. He enjoys considerable immunity as he spouts lies and rhetoric.

.
UPDATE!
http://n4g.com/news/709122/...
Check out the insane "well said" markings being handed to the usual antips3 trolls, as they say things completely off base about Geohotz (Using Geohotz's BS excuse that he's tampering with HIS ps3, when the issue is him distributing tampered copy-protected code) and calling people "retards"
*Still don't believe that the mods here are bias, anyone?
#1.2 (Edited 1332d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Parapraxis  +   1332d ago
Yeah, I lost several bubbles in the span of 2 days, it was frustrating and confusing, to say the least.

Yes, I can be opinionated and harsh at times, but sharing ones legitimate opinion on N4G often seems to get you in trouble.
"certain" people mark you as trolling and then the MODS do their work without reading in context or actually considering that I do have a VOICE.

I've also never once saw a person who is at 1 bubble ever re-gain bubbles.

Plenty of times I've seen them with "funny" or well said" next to a comment, yet apparently, while 1 mark as trolling makes you lose a bubble, the entire community liking a post and marking it as such does in no way grant you a new bubble.
It's a broken system, as I've said many times now.
Mr_Bun  +   1332d ago
There should definitely be more transparency with regard to the bubble system. It doesn't help when people can get banned/lose bubbles for using language that is often found in the articles posted here as well as some of the titles.
NiKK_419   1332d ago | Personal attack | show
Nate-Dog  +   1333d ago
I wasn't around when the Open-Zone was (so I don't know myself what exactly you're referring to there) but I agree with everything else you have said completely. This place really could do with some changes.
Chris399  +   1333d ago
We had the "open zone" and the "gamer zone".
In the former - open zone- you'd find all the crazy, unbridled fanboy rage that we see today in place of general chat. In the gamer zone, people had to post more moderate and intelligent things or they were marked as 'off-topic' or 'wrong zone'.

It was a MUCH better system. Since the merger, all the usual suspects who generally stuck to the open zone have polluted any reasonable level of discussion - regardless of console preference, we actually had some good debates back in the day. Not only that, but new members coming to the site assume that this is the modus operandi and jump right on the nonsense train.

Not only are we ruining the more moderate posts/ posters experience here, we are creating new trolls by not having proper guidelines or moderation.
#2.1 (Edited 1333d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Nate-Dog  +   1333d ago
Ah I see, thanks for the info. Certainly seems like a better system. I think someone on one of the previous blogs here about the N4G layout mentioned something about having possibly something like different categories such as a "Deals" section and mapping out exactly what an "Article" should be (i.e. a more stricter, definitive category) among other things, which sounded like a fairly good idea to me, could make moderation easier too as well as those open and gamer zones.
-Alpha  +   1333d ago
Have you tried PMing the mods/talking to them? Perhaps they can give you some clarity/reverse the actions that may have been wrongly done upon you.
Chris399  +   1333d ago
Indeed. Opened a ticket well over 12 hours now. No response.
And I'm not for abolishing mods at all - that would be insane. I'm all for having clear, delineated rules and order in this place and people who don't abuse their positions of power, there's a difference :)

Worth noting is that I did not receive a notification or notice of any sort as to why I was debubbled/ moderated, it just happened. In any other case where I've stepped out of line, I have been contacted by a moderator.
#3.1 (Edited 1333d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
-Alpha  +   1333d ago
Well I can't speak from experience though I can tell you that you aren't the only one who has been bringing this to attention.

If it helps I'll try to bubble you up when I can, as you tend to post thoughtful comments.
DelbertGrady  +   1332d ago
I've tried getting their attention through the forums on several occasions but they just don't give a sh*t as long as the site generates traffic. That's the sad state of affairs.
sdtarm  +   1332d ago
if you ask something in the forums they will answer Shut up
-Alpha  +   1333d ago | Well said
I like moderators because "community driven sites" aren't without flaws. For example, we all have a general idea of trolling but nobody considers it trolling when people always troll every COD-related article (E.g. "who cares about this POS, K3 is all I need")

Unpopular games, despite having its fans, gets trolled on usually with the approval of the community. I've seen it many times here, and I'm not exactly a fan of community-driven sites if minority opinions are undermined regardless of if I'm in that minority or not. That's where the mods step in.

Now, imagine that situation reversed and you have the problem of community driven websites. (A Killzone article with Halo fanboys or COD fanboys trashing the article and pretty much going off-topic/trolling Killzone news)

Communities tend to have popular attitudes, and thus moderation is required.

As for moderation abuse, I've had people tell me about them getting attacked/targeted by mods. Not only on this site but nearly every site with moderators has this issue. I think sometimes it's to do with lack of clarity and people feeling that they were wronged against when maybe perhaps they had sufficient reason to be moderated. Problem with this is that mods can't moderate every offensive comment and thus moderation seems selective, almost as if some particular users get moderated more than others (and they probably do).

Also, when you have absolute strict moderation it becomes impossible to comment without somehow breaking a rule. All of this I assume is based on the discretion of the mod who must rely on his/her understanding of the rules and the degree of an offensive comment. Not every comment can be deductively assessed.

It's a sticky topic but I hope you find your answer. I think it's best to talk to a mod first too if you haven't already. Good luck, buddy
#4 (Edited 1333d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
GarandShooter  +   1333d ago
This site is the way it is because that's the way site ownership wants it to be. Nothing more or less. One can only assume they feel proper moderation would impact negatively on revenue, and hence this is what we have. Would permanently banning well known trolls, and demanding decency, and civility really reduce site hits and click-throughs to the point it affects the bottom line? Apparently so.

Strict moderation can and does work. Allow me to quote from the final section of their rules:

'As we can never convey a philosophy through a few rules, we reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to edit or delete posts and/or to revoke Membership. No Second Chances; No Arguments; No Trial; No Way. At best you will receive one warning.

Subject to these few constraints, which are intended to foster and protect civility towards each other and maintain focus on our purpose, we hope you'll join us and actively participate in the discussions. Our Members are the reason these Forums exist. We welcome questions, opinions, product reviews, humor and more.'

People disagree very much with each other, but requiring the discussion to adhere to a code of thoughtfulness and civility under the threat of a possible 'one and done' penalty, alleviates a lot of the stupidity seen on N4G.
#4.1 (Edited 1331d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
blackburn5  +   1333d ago
I feel your pain. If you look at me you will see I have one bubble. One was taken because I told a person to stop lying about PSN in a article about Xbox Live AND PSN (sited for TROLLING) and the other because I said Kotaku can't be trusted with thing involving the PS3. There are dozens of trolls who always are in PS3 articles especially and you see them with 5 and 6 bubbles. One of them, FailOverHero trolls constantly but always has 3 or 4 bubbles in his possession. I have had one bubble for months and no matter how many bubble ups I get or agrees I get it never changes.This site IS a mess.
#5 (Edited 1333d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Godmars290  +   1333d ago
The only real thing wrong with the gaming rather than open zone was the draconian rule which lead to banning for the use of fanboy, xbot or Pslave. As stupid as those labels are they do apply in some instances.

Mind you, now we have people who's only comment is to call someone out as a fanboy with no attempt whatsoever to bring any logic or rationale into things.
Blitzed  +   1333d ago
@Blackburn5- I have noticed the exact same things. +Bubble although I doubt it will matter.

Ever since the launch of GT5 and Kinect I have seen a big shift in the moderation of this site. Any calling out of known trolls resulted in a 'persoanl attack' label and bubble loss. Many times Ive noticed saying anything remotely negative about Kinect resulted in the same. All the while, these well known 360 fanboys have had their bubbles incresed and their comments are rarely hidden.

Call me delusional or biased, its what I've noticed. I called out a guy for spamming the same comment into every GT5 thread for days and I referred to him as an idiot. I had several agrees and a couple disagres yet I lost 3 bubbles and was banned for 2 days. His comment remained despite being reported as spam.
#7 (Edited 1333d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
cgoodno  +   1333d ago | Well said
***What I am essentially trying to focus on is why some voices are censored whereas others run unchecked.***

Because not everything is reported and/or seen.

That's like asking why only some criminals are caught and not all of them.

When moderation is done, like your third post in this case, you shouldn't look at it as an offence but as someone actually doing their job. If you're the only one pulled over for speeding on the highway, at least someone was doing their job.

As to losing your bubbles? I'm not sure, don't really care since I saw nothing there that was worthy of gaining bubbles over in the first place.

My words may seem harsh, but I also come from the experience of moderating the VNBoards over at IGN for a few years and know that people seem to think that moderators are able to see and capture everything and when something they've done has been moderated and not someone else, it's an affront to them personally. It rarely ever is.
Chris399  +   1332d ago
Your words don't seem harsh,
but they are a tad misguided. Your opinion on what "is" or "is not" worth bubbling isn't absolute either, nor is it relevant as I'm referring to the 'community' consensus here.

Its also rather easy to cast judgement when you have an 8 bubble, ivory tower :)

Your speeding analogy is lacking a few key pieces of information. Cops can miss people who speed, yes. In this case, two speeding cars - myself and the other party - went by directly in front of the cop (as you have to see, read and follow at least part of the thread to moderate it), yet it was decided that my speeding was a GREATER offence. I would like to know HOW this judgement was reached and WHY. I have yet to receive a response from a mod, nor was there a conversation as you would assumedly have with a police officer when they pulled you over to explain your offence. Not only that, but the other comments which had been voted up by the community HAD THEIR VOTES REMOVED. That's draconian. You shouldn't be able to modify a community voice in instances when it hasn't violated the ToS.

So your speeding analogy doesn't apply very well at all.

Edit: And 1 agree and a "well said", seriously? :) Honest question, but how many mods do you have on your friends list?
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pr0digyZA  +   1332d ago
Well I agreed with him and you, you both put up good arguments. I am no mod as you can see. Sometimes there is no conspiracy.
cgoodno  +   1332d ago | Interesting
***Your speeding analogy is lacking a few key pieces of information. Cops can miss people who speed, yes. In this case, two speeding cars - myself and the other party - went by directly in front of the cop***

Actually, no. A better analogy would be that a cop was watching Main Street for speeders and caught them there whereas there was no cop on duty to catch all the speeders on Thimble Street. Perhaps a cop would have stopped over and caught speeders on Thimble Street if they had information that led them to believe that there were speeders there.

You see, the point is that the mods don't see everything unless they are reported. And, hot topic posts are the ones where people most often report these sort of things.

The mods can't and don't read every single post on the site and rely on the community to report offenses.

And, even then, they must make a judgement on how far one offense has gone compared to others. There is no strict rule on this. One night I could get pulled over for going only 5 miles over the speed limit, another for going 10 miles over.

These are people trying to make the best decisions they can with the tools at hand. The mods are not the ones developing the tools, just the ones put in a position to utilize them. Many suggestions have been made to those who do make the tools for improving on them, but it's up to whomever makes them to implement/change them, not the mods.

Do they make mistakes? Yes, they're only human. Do these mistakes outweigh the negatives or are in such a number that it adversely affects the ability for people to post here? Not in my opinion and based on those who continue to come back here, theirs either.

***Its also rather easy to cast judgement when you have an 8 bubble, ivory tower :)***

You say ivory tower, I say a sense of how I post here. Sure, I may have had a little help getting here, I don't really know. But, I have never lost a bubble even though I've had many a time where I buck the trend and have received even more than a hundred disagrees. I've also only had one post moderated in my history and didn't argue against the judgement. And yet, throughout that time, I've maintained my bubbles because of how I post and not because I'm on someone's super-secret moderator friend list.

If you think it fair, you can knock me back down to three. But, I guarantee over time I'll work my way back up because of how I post and that will be the only reason.

*** Honest question, but how many mods do you have on your friends list?***

One, Dusty, and he's really not a mod though he can moderate if he wants to I assume. I added him so I could track him, though, not because we're best buds or anything.

Though, can you blame any mod for wanting to agree with my post considering how many posts they deal with on a weekly basis complaining about their moderation rules? Do you know that the complaints heard here are no different than the complaints heard on every single other forum that has thousands of posters every day?

And, please, let's not compare this to a site that has a much smaller user base. N4G, IGN, Steam, and World of Warcraft forums are a vastly different beast and the methods of moderating a community are things continually discussed at various events and in articles on community management.

I have a dissenting opinion because I side with The Man. My dissenting opinion doesn't mean I'm wrong, though. Nor does it mean I'm best buds with the mods. Nor does it mean that I never break the rules. Nor does it mean that I agree with everything N4G does (don't get me started on blogging and MasterPage design/integration here on N4G).
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cgoodno  +   1332d ago
***worth bubbling isn't absolute either, nor is it relevant as I'm referring to the 'community' consensus here. ***

I never said it was and I really left it out of my argument. I have no proof that you had +2 bubbles, I have no proof that they were taken away, I saw nothing that would urge me one way or the other.

I would disagree with people giving bubbles for a topic that is considered in need of moderation. A troll on a MS article stating how Killzone is greater than Halo could earn 5 bubbles, doesn't mean the community was right in that considering how it lacked anything of substance to gain such a bubble.

I would also disagree with someone being moderated just to remove any bubble gain that is deserved.

The "community" is not always right. The "moderators" are not always right.

***Not only that, but the other comments which had been voted up by the community HAD THEIR VOTES REMOVED. That's draconian.***

Yours is the first I've ever heard of and is, unfortunately, something I can neither prove or disprove. I see no reason to make a statement other than what I made above considering the evidence provided.

I won't just sit here and jump on a bandwagon of sorts against or for moderation.

My comments above are on the concept of moderating a site like N4G and how individual perception is rarely (note, I did not say always above) true on moderation being personal, generally unfair within the framework in which moderation is handled, or seeing from a position that is free of complete bias/emotion.
#8.1.3 (Edited 1332d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report
Derekvinyard13  +   1333d ago
i said this in the forum's and people called me a cry baby. i said the F word, Not to anyone on this site but to bobby kotick. i got restricted for 4 days -_-. if we cant have bad language, then we does this site have any news related to mature related games?? make it a teen site and when people say bad words ban them. not going to happen, but it dosent make sense
cgoodno  +   1332d ago
COPPA.

From: http://www.coppa.org/comply...
Note the word between the *** and in all caps.

Who Must Comply

If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed to children under 13 that collects personal information from children or if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge that you are collecting personal information from children, you must comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act.

To determine whether a Web site is directed to children, the FTC considers several factors, including the subject matter; visual or audio content; the age of models on the site; ***LANGUAGE***; whether advertising on the Web site is directed to children; information regarding the age of the actual or intended audience; and whether a site uses animated characters or other child-oriented features.

To determine whether an entity is an "operator" with respect to information collected at a site, the FTC will consider who owns and controls the information; who pays for the collection and maintenance of the information; what the pre-existing contractual relationships are in connection with the information; and what role the Web site plays in collecting or maintaining the information.

===

This sites works on the guideline that it fit the standard PG-13 rules for television. Certain words you will hear on TV can be used, but should limited as they are on TV. You can say b**ch, but getting carried away with it and using as a personal attack are not allowed, for example.

Note: I just don't care much for cursing, so I self-moderate even when it's obvious what I'm saying. That's why I wrote the ** into the word above. That's just personal preference.
#9.1 (Edited 1332d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Derekvinyard13  +   1332d ago
a warning wouldent have hurt tho u know
TheBlind   1333d ago | Spam
Firstkn1ghT   1332d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(1)
RyuCloudStrife  +   1332d ago
Both of you
are funny and give me the lolz fighting over something you wont even be able to notice on a screen just who cares... and again ill take all the credit on this: http://n4g.com/news/699123/... comment #46 which I said 2+ weeks ago
#12 (Edited 1332d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Parapraxis  +   1332d ago
"The user has closed his/her account. The user is not active anymore."

WTF????
cgoodno  +   1332d ago
I believe the user has chosen to speak with his wallet, so to speak, and has chosen to leave the site behind. Unfortunate since the OP was someone who posted constructive material.
-Alpha  +   1332d ago
I can't believe he just left like that :/

And yes, he was very constructive with his posts.

Let the conspiracy theories begin
#13.1.1 (Edited 1332d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report
cgoodno  +   1332d ago
I do find it sad that some of the more intelligent and constructive posters tend to leave because it's hard to put up with the flood of wasteful posts or because of the sometimes conflicting element of mixing community and admin moderation.
WildArmed  +   1332d ago
Exactly what I was looking at.
Hmm, will ask him about it later.
Will try to convince Chris to get his ass back on :(
ZombieAssassin  +   1332d ago
You gotta remember the mods are people too with their own opinions and preferences, I went through some of their comment history and to say the least a FEW seemed like they were a bit one sided from their early comment history but nothing too bad. Also you can't expect them to read everything that is reported because I guarantee a lot of people get reported as off-topic/spam/trolling.

Besides if you're worried about bubbles to talk just do what 90% of the people do and make another account.
rockleex  +   1331d ago
"Besides if you're worried about bubbles to talk just do what 90% of the people do and make another account."

And that there is the problem.

The only people who had a need to do that on the old N4G were trolls who had no life.
#14.1 (Edited 1331d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
xino   1332d ago | Spam
Kon  +   1332d ago
Cool, mods banned this guy for speaking the truth. I'm feeling in Nazi's Germany right now.
darkpower  +   1332d ago
I doubt the mods went that far (wouldn't put it past them, but I really doubt they did).

If they did stuff like that, then I would not be here right now!
Odion  +   1332d ago
40 comments in and no one has brought up my name!

We can ban accounts perm, but we can't close/delete them, whoever owned this account chose to close their account.

As for the some comments get nailed, others don't, We have a staff of 10 working on a site that gets millions of visitors, so its tough to catch every bad comment, while we're trying to monitor the forums, approve content, report what needs reporting.
Kon  +   1332d ago
Thanks for the explanation Odion.
cgoodno  +   1332d ago
***40 comments in and no one has brought up my name!***

Knew I forgot something!
rockleex  +   1331d ago
Then explain to me why in certain articles when two people are debating, one of them being a troll who swears and says offensive stuff while the other holds a sound and constructive argument, the troll would get away with it while the other person gets labeled as "trolling" "offensive" "off-topic" etc?

I've seen it happen multiple times.

The obvious trolls usually don't get their comments marked till two days later... when the article is already dying down.

Do you guys even have a system in place that sorts the comments in order of importance?

You should also have separate lists. One for comments that are well received, and another for comments that have been marked down.

The old N4G bubbling system was perfect.
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JL  +   1331d ago
I seriously doubt that there's ever been a case so clear cut that one was undeniably in the wrong, while the other was completely innocent and the innocent one got punished while the other didn't.

The point has been brought up before and I'll reiterate it: we just can't see everything.

Straight from the site stats: There are roughly 5,000 comments made on a daily basis. There are only a handful of mods active on N4G. There's just no way we can moderate 1,000+ comments each day for each of us. Not to mention there are other things we must do such as approving and moderating submissions as well as the forum.

And we have plenty of tools to tell us which comments have been reported, which ones are well-received and which are bubbled down. The problem: it can be virtually useless at times because the community can be irresponsible. People are quick to talk about members going around "trolling", but then in the next sentence talk about how "disagree/agree" ratios and bubble up/down votes like that should determine whether if the comments were worthy of those things. Here's the problem: a lot of those disagree/agrees and bubble votes are made by these "trolling" members.

It's not as easy as just going in and bubbling up or marking things as well-said that the community liked. Often times you'll see comments that include "trolling", name calling and offensive remarks get bubbled up and agreed with by irresponsible members. While well thought out comments are marked down by the community. So, we can't just go on the consensus.

On that note, on the topic of labels being undone and bubbles gained being lost. It's a dynamic system. Once a comment is marked as well said, it's not permanently locked at that label (unless a staff member put that label on). So, a comment that has been marked as well said by one group of people, could later turn into a "trolling" label if enough people come around after the initial label and bubble it down for whatever reason.

Thus, most of the problems people complain about aren't because of the mods. It's due to the community. Like the OP for instance, all that was done by the community, not a mod. Where we "falter" is that we just can't moderate EVERYTHING (and I use the word falter lightly because it's just unreasonable to assume we can moderate everything).

I'd say cgoodno's comments on this issue in this blog have been pretty spot-on as far as assessing the situation.
#18.3.1 (Edited 1331d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
fuckoffodion   1331d ago | Personal attack | show
fuckoffodion  +   1315d ago
As i thought...idiot dictatorship. Yawn.
teething  +   1332d ago
I gpt a ban for 5 or so days when gt5 came out. I said gt5 lacked porsche. I contacterd mods, but they said the community said i was trolling (based on votes abd disagrees i guess).

Sometimes i think the troll is identified by the majority vote. Who cares about details.
Silly gameAr  +   1332d ago
I can't believe they have you down to 3 bubbles. I made it back to 4 bubbles once, and when I logged in like 2 days later I was back down to 3. Weird since I didn't make any comments or even visit N4G in between the time I went from 4 back to 3. Like you though, It wasn't the bubbles because bubbles come and go. It was the fact that this happens, and yet multi-account trolls run unchecked.

You've always made great level headed comments and made great points. I've suspected something was up with N4G for the longest, and this is proof enough for me.
#20 (Edited 1332d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Silly gameAr  +   1332d ago
I didn't even notice the header. That's crazy. N4G lost a good one.
Godmars290  +   1332d ago
That, or his account was closed.

May also just be making a statement.
#20.1.1 (Edited 1332d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report
tordavis  +   1331d ago
It's N4G dude. Surprised you are just now finding out how corrupt this site is.
GenoZStriker  +   1331d ago
N4G has always been like this from the time I was lurking to when I joined and then later started posting. There are ultimately four ways you survive on this site without busting your head and locking your account, you either troll, flame people who talk shit or get shat on. The other option is to just not post. There is no use trying to reason with 90% of people who comment here because even if you are right you are almost always wrong.

The only community N4G has is on the forums, which LOL I'm banned from. Even then some of the retards on the main site move there and bring their problem. N4G's main page has no community. Just people who signed up to talk shit, just like Youtube. Have you ever seen a Youtube discussion? It's the exact same things as N4G.

The last few weeks I have been doing nothing but trolling and posting worthless LOL comments) getting bubbles for that, because it's the only way to have fun right now and it seems people much rather read troll comments and laugh then a wall of texts from angry users who thinks Killzone 3 has worst graphics than Mario64.
#22 (Edited 1331d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply

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