ABizzel1 (User)

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"If you want to go there, I'll gladly."

Wii U GPU rumors, and PS4 and Nextbox rumors

ABizzel1 | 1195d ago
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Well the rumor is the Wii U is running an AMD 770 GPU, and it looks like those rumors might be absolutely true.

A stroll over to AMD website will show a list of all the HD cards they have right now. You can look at the specifications of each card, and there's a very consistent rundown of each card......except the 700 series (excluding the 790). It doesn't show how much RAM is in the card or the Engine Clock for the 700 series, but the information can be found on EVERY other card series.

http://www.amd.com/us/produ...

Hum, sounds fishy.

There are 3 cards in the 700 series. The lower end 750, the mid tier 770, and the high end 790. From the looks of the three it seems Nintendo is deciding on whether they should go with the 750 or 770. One thing to notice is that these cards support DX11, so the Wii U may very well sport some high end graphics if the consoles CPU, Memory, and HDD are as capable as the GPU.

What do you guys think? Is the 700 series enough?

To me it's more than enough with what Nintendo plans to do with it, and for Nintendo's franchises. Although the GPU is already a generation behind (actually 2, but the 900 series is way too much right now), and it's age is going to show even more by the time the console actually launches. Also with PC upgrading each year and a PS4 and Nextbox rolling out not to far from it's release Nintendo is going to have a hard time trying to keep the 3rd party support that it seems like it's going to have at least early on. But as shown with the Wii all that doesn't matter. Nintendo is trying to carve out their own little world, and more than likely 3rd games will make their way to the Wii U thanks to a similar interface as the 3DS and PS Vita. The GPU is also enough, because Nintendo doesn't have any franchise that really need to push the graphical barrier except maybe Zelda (as it was demonstrated) and Metorid, everything else not so much. What Nintendo games would benefit most from with this new GPU is allowing game developers to make larger game worlds for better exploration (will Pokefan finally get their POkemon MMO?).

But this brings me to my thought. How much are these consoles going to cost. The 700 series GPU retails for around $150 on AMD's website, but a quick peak at wholesale sites has the GPU listed for just over $100 (750 = $105, 770 = $120). Either way that's expensive considering Nintendo standards, so a $250 Wii U is out the Wii-ndow (get it, oh well). A $250 price for the Wii U was gone as soon as Nintendo decided to sell a $250 3DS (which I still don't get to this day, it should be $199 at the most, and it's not like $50 is that big of a deal, but $250 is an ugly number to look at for what is practically considered a children's toy). My guess is this thing is going to be at least $349 upon release which based off what it has, $349 isn't as bad as it may seem, but $400 is too much (again with the $50 difference). Once again this leads me to a bigger question.

What kind of GPU is the PS4 and Nextbox going to use, and how much are those consoles going to cost. A $600 console would be doom for either Sony or MS, and they're going to try their best to prevent it. But if they really want to leap forward like they did with the previous generation they're going to have to use 900 series card with the lowest being priced at over $200 and the highest reaching almost $800 (4GB version), and I don't even want to think what the rumored 7000 series is going to cost O_o

(Just in case you don't know they are on the 6000 series which means the Big N is using a 6770/6750).

So it's safe to say we won't be seeing a PS4 or Nextbox until Nov. 2012 at the earliest, but more than likely 2013 no later than 2014. And if they come out in 2013 then they should be around the $400 - $500 price range, but should be sporting a fairly powerful GPU that will be a generation behind :) by that time, so is it really that much different from the Wii U whose GPU will probably be 4 generation behind even the the console would only be 1 year old......nevermind that. Just enjoy what you get.

ThatHappyGamer  +   1195d ago
I wish the next gen PS & Xbox should run all games @ 1080p & 60FPS. Especially the MP games. And also they should be powerful enough to support atleast 32players/lobby in games like Battlefield.
ABizzel1  +   1195d ago
I don't think that's a question. Fiber optic high speed internet connections are really pushing forward starting 2012, and by the time the new consoles come out it should be across a fairly nice size portion of the US, meaning connection speeds should be able to keep up with larger gaming lobbies, and we'll really start seeing MMO's on consoles.

Another thing is while not many, there are some games that run at 1080p 60fps this gen, so with the technical advances from next gen 1080p 60fps should be nothing.

I'm looking more towards 120fps, and glasses free 3D for a better sense of depth in games. We already have one game doing this right now (Super Stardust 3D, although because of 3D it runs 120fps, and 60fps per eye, but you still need glasses), so that is a better standard to reach for IMO. 1080p 60fps is a given.
#1.1 (Edited 1195d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
ThatHappyGamer  +   1195d ago
I mean MP games @ 1080p & 60FPS.

BTW connection speed is not a thing with 32 players/lobby.

MAG runs 256 Players/lobby with the current gen DSL/Cable internet.

What I mean is The console should have enough RAM, CPU & GPU processing power to support 32 players/lobby in games like BFBC2 where lot of things are happening at any point of time.

RAM & GPU are the 2 things that are holding up BF3 MP capped @ 24players/lobby in consoles.
ABizzel1  +   1195d ago
i said the thing about fiber, for things like downloading and streaming not multiplayer. I was just making a generalization of what to expect from consoles next gen.

And like I said 1080p and 60fps should be no problem.
bozebo  +   1194d ago
"BTW connection speed is not a thing with 32 players/lobby."

It is if the game is peer to peer. (like 99.99999999999999999999% of console games)
Thecraft1989  +   1195d ago
I think your mistaken the R700 (4000 series ) your going on about is not Dx11 certificated evergreen (5000 series ) and the northern islands( 6000 series ) are the only ati dx11 certificated gpu's.

Now when I say certificated Yes the R700 could be made to do dx11 but only limiting the performance fps resolution etc its just not plausible that something that's been in development for longer than dx11 has been in the market to have dx11 support.

Do I think R700 would be enough yes it will able to do 1080p at 30fps even 60fps when devs have had time with it. Good example would be if they go for 4800 it would able to play crysis 1 at max at 45fps. Obviously they would need good amount of ram to go along with this.

ABizzel1 I like your imagination but your getting to ahead of the times.

1.

Just because the USA is prepping for mass fiber rollout does not mean other countries our. Here in UK only half population will have access to fiber broadband by 2015 only 20% of them are likely to have it.

2. 120fps won't be happening. Or you would be throwing out other things that need to worked upon. Yes mini games will most likely have this but not full retailer games.
#2 (Edited 1195d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
TABSF  +   1195d ago
Yeah your 100% correct its a HD 4000, sorry no DX11 there.

It could be some custom chip based upon HD 4000 and support DX11 though.

BTW Nintendo leak said RV770 (HD 4800), not HD 6790, HD 6770 nor HD 6750.

Guys, its not really internet connection issue, E.G:
* PC gamers with 64 Players
* PS3 gamers with 24 Players
On the name network, the problem is these consoles can't support large amount of players interactive within the environment.

Also don't bring up MAG, the game looks like a HD Classic, with no physics or vehicles.

With a game like BF3 your going to have next gen graphics/physics, huge maps, vehicles (including jets) plus 64 player MP on PC.
#2.1 (Edited 1195d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
theonlylolking  +   1194d ago
MAG has as good graphics as COD4 and has vehicles. Here is a picture to show you how close the graphics are to COD4

http://i1095.photobucket.co...

MAG is not supposed to be a crysis or killzone. For what MAG is doing the graphics are very good. I was in the first stage of the beta till it ended and I can tell that there was a HUGE improvement in graphics. The lighting was the biggest improvement from the beta.
death2smoochie  +   1194d ago
@theonlylolking

MAG's graphics are mediocre. There is no getting around it. The physic engine is basic in comparison to other FPS games and the environment is not interactive at all.
It does not use real time dynamic lighting or real time soft shadows. Matter of fact MAG uses no real time effects like BF3 does.
It's slightly above PS2, Xbox1 graphics.
It's silly to bring up MAG or even RFOM to BF3 when it comes to questioning why the PS3 cannot run 64 players or more than 24 players in MP...
BF3 Frost Bite Engine 2.0 is rendering MANY more CPU/GPU intensive calculations than MAG or RFOM or KZ3 or Gears of War 3 etc.
ABizzel1  +   1195d ago
I was talking about the 6000 series (6750 and 6770).

As far as me being forward thinking, I believe that's the only way to be or else things don't get done or evolve :)

A large portion of the world doesn't have internet connections nearly on par with the US, and Japan has the fastest internet service in the world, so making a console compatible with fiber shouldn't be a problem.

As far as 120fps go I'm sure we'll have some games run that similar to how a few games run at 1080p 60fps. PC's can run a vast majority of games at 120fps and each console generation seems to be on par with PC's of the previous generation. That being said games will be producing huge graphical overhauls so we may see a 30fps standard again (look at Crysis 2 DX11 now). I hope not.
Thecraft1989  +   1194d ago
Then you are incorrect. each generation of cards has a family name. The 700 series normally known as R700 that your talking about is the 4000 series. northern islands is the codename for the 6 series.

There is no chance in million years your going to get a 6 series gpu in the Wii U.

1.Heat the cards have not been made small enough something of the size of WII U.

2. cooling, It would be very loud console high failure rate.

3.Price it would cost nintendo a lot of money to get a custom 6 series GPU that's why they go for old ones.

Now you are most likely going to get R700 (4 series) or a modified mobile GPU on par of R700.

Everything points to this because of R700 is cheap easily made small and is able to do next generation that nintendo said they want 1080p HD games.

As for 120FPS i don't think we will get them on very large scale probably on the scale of getting 60fps games this generation.

I also get don't get your internet point however. The us is very far from having internet on the comparison of japan. US is actually number 18 in the fastest internet.

Anyway stated internet has not been limitation ram has been.
#2.2.1 (Edited 1194d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report
bozebo  +   1194d ago
All current consoles are compatible with fibre...

But anyway, yes internet connection has been a problem. Consoles generally use peer to peer; for a game to be published for release on the 360 it cannot exceed upstream usage of 128kbps. Even though any standard connection should have at least 400kbps upstream and the game is supposed to choose the most appropriate host (though it rarely does, because there is physically no way to measure all the factors). I think forge mode in Halo 3 and Reach sometimes uses up to a megabit of upstream, though they probably pulled some strings and it isn't a core game mode.

There is also a "sample rate" of sorts in game networking, the higher that rate - the less natural lag there is and the better the hit detection is, but the more bandwidth is used (loads of upstream for the host). Generally, a PC game like CSS uses about 3mbps upstream for just 10 players because of the high "sample rate", but BC2 (console port) barely uses 1mbps for 32 players - because of its extremely low "sample rate". Also, the more different connections that are regularly sending data from the host - the more pressure it puts on the router. Most home routers are designed for 4 devices using a web browser - if you play a game while 4 other machines load a web page at the same time, your game will stutter - imagine if you are hosting 15 other players and your upload speed is already being maxed out; the router has to hold back packets, store them in ram, process them, and send them later - causing severe lag in the game and causing a lot of demand on the home router.

Even next gen, games will not have large numbers of players without dedicated servers. It is NOT a ram problem.

One individual player connecting really doesn't use that much RAM at all. Literally, it will be less than a KB of overhead.
#2.2.2 (Edited 1194d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
vulcanproject  +   1194d ago
Also i note you took the wholesale price as the price Nintendo might pay.

They wouldn't.

For a start, wholesale price still includes the cut of the partner who has distributed the card, it also includes the price of the board and related power circuits, cooling and fan, memory, packaging, manuals, cables, driver discs, distribution etc. These are things that are integrated into a custom console and manufactured cheaply to lower spec than a dedicated board, because there is no chance of anyone overclocking etc. So it works out less.

Even more so than this is that by the time wii u goes into production, lets say at the very earliest february 2012 for a summer launch, the chip will probably be designed for the new 28nm process node which will be perfectly ready to start churning out the dies.

This will reduce the costs of each GPU massively, reduce the cooling and power needed i mentioned beforehand making the whole thing cheaper to build into a console.

I don't think nintendo would end up paying any more than $60-$70 for an R770 class GPU.
#2.3 (Edited 1194d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Theo1130  +   1194d ago
If next gen console are going to sale for 400-500 usd, pc gaming all of a sudden becomes more convenient, especially when something like facebook and google + games start to evolve.
Chocoboh  +   1194d ago
Sony & Microsoft don't pay the same prices as we do for hardware.. what cost us like $400 would cost Sony like $150
jacksheen0000  +   1189d ago
If AMD enhances The 700 series GPU by Adding a higher clock speed,More RAM(2-3gigs worth); then it might be worthy of calling it a hardcore gaming console.In addition, the rest of the hardware component under the Wii U's hood need some sort of upgrade as well.That being said,I don't think 3 cores is enough to be considered nextgen unless the clock speed for each core is about 4ghz.And so, A better option, is to add 4 cores with about 3.5ghz clock speed would be considerably be reasonable.

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