a08andan (User)

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Playstation 4 and Xbox 720; Minimum specs

a08andan | 1193d ago
User blog

Have you ever seen someone speculating in what kind of hardware that the next generation of consoles will feature? As I thought. I am the only one who makes such attempts.

These speculations are based on what I believe will be the minimum specifications of the next-gen hardware. EDIT: Please be aware of the fact that these speculations aren't based on technical knowledge. Its just an estimate based on the current gen.

Lets start at the resolution as this in many ways represents how many pixels the hardware needs to deal with at once, at maximum. Most games today on Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 runs in 720p, 30 fps, no?

One of 720p resolutions can be 1280×720, so lets go with that. 1280x720 is equal to 921 600 pixels. And those pixels updates 30 times every second.

The resolution in the next-gen is most likely going be 1080p. (But with 720p support obviously). Another thing that we are going to see is a minimum of 120 fps to get a 60fps stereoscopic 3D which would be an increase of 400% on the base fps. Possible support for higher resolution for movies, but unlikely for games as the hardware required would be extremely expensive.

So with these predictions we get the following:

One of the 1080p resolutions can be 1920x1080 so lets go with that. 1920x1080 is equal to 2 083 600 pixels. Which is an increase of 125 %. Lets use that number and look at what the next gen specifications will have as a minimum.

So, both consoles have a total of 512 Mb of memory available, how it is used is another matter. But added up, it is still 512 Mb. Those 512 Mb are used to output games at 720p and 30 fps.

Now, in order to achieve the "1080p 120 fps" we have to look at what is increased the most and try to add that up. The fps has a 400 % increase. This will mean that the least total amount of memory that is going to be available should be 2048 Mb. By my reasoning, that is the lowest possible amount. Now it is not that simple.

The next generation will not come with the same graphical features as todays consoles. It will be expanded greatly with, for example, tessellation and other dx 11 features. All the new features will also increase the demands on the new hardware. So 2048 Mb is what it would be if it simply was an increase of resolution and framrate. And that is not realistic. But the next part is really hard to guess, simply it’s a matter of how well the developers use the processing power within the next gen consoles. An estimate, and what I believe is a good one, is to double that amount. So I believe that the next gen will feature 4096 Mb of total memory. Which is an increase of 800 %. And if you look back on previous increases in hardware capabilities when a new gen of consoles arrive, this is close.

But we are not done yet. Another thing that is obvious is the type of physical media that the next gen will feature. All 3 will most likely feature a Blu-ray player. To go another way would, in a business perspective, be simply retarded. Blu-ray and HD is becoming the standard, and to skip out on this would be a severe mistake. Its very hard to predict what the size of the discs will be, how much data they will be able to hold. Today a Blu-ray used in the Playstation 3 can hold up to about 50 Gb of data. There will most likely be an increase in capacity, but it doesn’t seem likely that it will be more than 100 Gb due to the fact that this is one of the most expensive parts in a console.

As for the hard-drives in the next-gen consoles; it is unlikely that they are going for a mechanical one in the SKU's. SSD's are becoming cheaper and cheaper everyday, and my bet is that we will see an SSD in the next-gen consoles. But this all depends on how expensive they are. If they choose to go with an SSD from the start, then it will be at least 160 Gb, but with a mechanical hard-drive my bet is 500 Gb.

There is one other, very interesting thing about the next Playstation that has come to my attention with the upcoming release of the NGP. Why I bring this up will soon be explained.

The NGP will feature a new physical media, some sort of card based media. And it will also feature something called PlaystationSuite. And this is where it gets interesting.

It would be very strange if Playstation 4 wasn’t PlaystationSuite enabled. The name is “PlaystationSuite” after all. And this makes it very probable that the Playstation 4 will feature a card reader that can read those cards so that you can play your NGP games through your ps4 (Those games that doesn’t have the touchpads as a must, obviously). But it is also possible that Sony would release some sort of pad for the ps4 so you could play all games of the NGP on your ps4. This seems like the only way to go, since Sony is starting to focus on making it easier for developers to develop games for multiple platforms at once.

Other obvious features are the lastest Wifi-standards, USB-ports of the latest standards, improved versions of Playstation Move/Kinect, and Blutooth for controllers.

To sum up these speculations and predictions:

Playstation 4:

Blu-Ray with the capacity of at least 100Gb
4096 Mb of total memory (Both RAM and video-memory included)
Card-reader to read NGP games
PlaystationSuite enabled
Blutooth with support for up to 7 players at once.
An improved version of Playstation Move
An improved version of the Cell-processor (!) This is if they make it compatible with PlaystationSuite.
An SSD hard-drive of at least 160 Gb or a mechanical one of at least 500 Gb

Xbox 720:

Blu-Ray drive
4096 Mb of total memory (Both RAM and video-memory included)
Improved version of Kinect
Blutooth
An SSD hard-drive of at least 160 Gb or a mechanical one of at least 500 Gb

These predictions are the only ones that seems to be possible to make from what we have today. What kind of architecture, processor-types and other, is impossible to predict.

Hope you enjoyed the reading and please comment with your thoughts on this and your own predictions, but please try to keep them realistic :)

Cheers!

Caleb_141  +   1192d ago
I think it would be worth mentioning the actual online capabilities of both next-gen consoles aswell.

One thing that both Microsoft and Sony certainly must do is to make online connectability between this gen of consoles and their successors. What I mean is that we should still be able to use our same accounts on these new consoles and we should still be able to have the same online features with regards to friends-list's, etc. Most probably in the form of an icon next to a person's username saying whether they're on a PS3 or PS4.

Just an idea, but I think it is imperative that they both do this so as not to alienate the playerbase.
a08andan  +   1192d ago
Transfer of accounts to the PS4 will not be a problem, I see no reason to why they wouldn't make it possible to transfer. They have enabled cloud-saves so when the launch of the ps4 draws near, we will probably get an option to upload our ps3 profile to the cloud, so I don't think you have to worry :)

But cross-generation play is another matter. Then the ps4 would have to be backwardscompatible, and that I don't know about. If they use some updated version of the Cell-processor in the ps4, then I think it is much more likely that it will have BC, but otherwise I am not sure that they will have.
kancerkid  +   1192d ago
Your math is fine, but your logic and understanding of GPUs/CPUs is severely flawed. Just because you have a jump of twice the resolution does not mean you need twice the VRam on the GPU.
a08andan  +   1192d ago
I am not saying that. I am saying that the amount of total ram in the system (it includes Vram, RAM and all other types of RAM)
Petro  +   1190d ago
What is Blutooth? Sounds like some sort of toothpaste.
a08andan  +   1190d ago
@petro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Should be Bluetooth, a typo from my side :P
Collego  +   1192d ago
Excellent idea. I hope you submitted that to both MS and Sony.
jerethdagryphon  +   1192d ago
historically previous to this generation is was fairly large jump in ram

with the snes having 1 meg and the n64 being 4 so at that boint your 400% increase hold true however

gamecube was a jump of over 10 times to 43 meg

wii howver was only a doublign of that to 88

playstation shows a differnt story

2 meg on ps1 to 32 on ps2 and 512 on ps3 a jump of 16x and 16 times

microsoft shows 64 meg and 512 again a jump of 8

its not linier additionally while quad core pcs with 4 gig of ram and a gurther gig on graphic are standard only in a few cases is it acually needed

chips today are incredicbly efficient

id say it may double maybe quad to 2 gig but more then that costs will skyrocket
darthv72  +   1192d ago
@caleb
why would you think existing profile data would not be forward compatible?

MS had that in mind when they made live in the first place. Original xbox owners were able to migrate their gamertag to the 360 without issue.

Where I found a flaw was in the purchase history of original xbox live arcade content not being automatically available in new update 360 form. I had purchased a few games (zuma, joust, smash tv) on the original xbox and while those games had 360 versions, I was not able to download those newer console versions for free. Bummer.

I would doubt MS would make whatever their newer system is that restrictive again. Keep in mind that the 360 rendition of live is what really grew the service and the original xbox would be the testing ground. They will obviously have some new features but restricting your profile data from advancing to the next level (hopefully) will not be one of them.

PSN I dont know about. That is still growing to find its place and ideas of what is/is not available to the free users is likely to change as it grows. But your profile would likely be able to migrate like in live.
Caleb_141  +   1192d ago
I would think that because we haven't had a second generation of online focused consoles yet. Sure the PS2 and Xbox had online but it was nowhere near the standards of what the PS3 and 360 are like so as of yet we cannot be sure whether this is going to be the case.
Godmars290  +   1192d ago
At this point what they put into the system isn't going to be the thing, but what they can get out and how quickly. he big problem with this gen, not that few notice or admit it, is that some things weren't possible or prohibitive. Features were removed and especially sprite based titles because they had to be high resolution.

There was also the thing with the 360 leveling out maybe too quickly because its dev tools were easy to use compared to the PS3's. Now 360 titles are struggling to look as good as early PS3 ones. Every time there's a multiplatform argument like with Crysis 2, its abut it looking than a PS3 exclusive.
darthv72  +   1192d ago
from what I can imagine....
The debate of who is better comes down to the similarity of their hardware this gen. I dont know if that was on purpose or accident but I highly doubt the performance differences will be as close as they are currently.

Regardless of the actual specs, it will be in the presentation that will set each one apart. New features to enhance the gaming experience as opposed to raw power. Dont get me wrong...power is something that ensures the experience is fulfilling but it is what that experience contains that will matter more.
--------  +   1192d ago
Yeah, I doubt the hardware specs will be too close (Xbox/Playstation) We'll have to wait and see. As usual they'll both be trying to out do eachother technically, visually etc. - So it works out for us.
King_many_layers  +   1190d ago
I agree with you there particularly Darth.

I can't necessarily being too large of a jump in terms of how much Raw power is going to affect our experience.

In my opinion the main way in which things are going to be affected with the next generation of consoles is going to be the operating systems.
The Xbox has completely got the upper hand with their operating system over the Playstation as so many elements of it are just so well put together and streamlined. The interactivity between playing games to being able to very easily manage conversations, messages and parties is a large part of it's overall success.

But there is still room for improvement, ones in which sony especially have a bigger chance to capatalise upon.

Sony have the Xperia Play (and further iterations), the 'NGP' and a whole next system (PS4) to intertwine together in ways that could be incredibly intuitive.

This combined with a service I think has a lot of untapped scope and potential in Playstation Home. There is a huge amount of option s.

The PS4 could have an OS much like the XBox's at the moment with it's ease of access and great presentation. The Playstation profile really could be expanded upon, allowing for greater personal presentations which could be linked through the NGP and the Xperia play.

Imagine being able to go on your playstation 4 racking up your virtual rewards, perhaps a theme or such for earning a platinum trophy, only to be able to go through onto your XPlay and use the theme through a built in PS Suite. Perhaps a whole section in the suite could be PS rewards.

The PS suite could become a whole section in it's own right rather than the XMB (or whatever it actually will be) when you are playing a game.

The next Generation is really quite exciting for me, but I do get the feeling I'm going to be dissapointed by the connectivity... Although the NGP has me remaining hopeful.
trounbyfire  +   1192d ago
ps4 = PS3 with these add features + just update the current wifi,Bluetooth,web browser and so on

-keep 8 core cell (to save money + the cell hasn't been pushed yet) if you add a new cell the cost would skyrocket
-more powerful GPU
-at least double the ram
-card reader/NGP card reader is a nice add
-PS3 and xbox are the pioneers of a OS running in a background so they both need to be optimize for running an OS while playing a game as well as true multitasking like pause a game and watch a video
-Higher capacity bluray

if sony follows this they could have the cheaper console. Wii HD is a horrible idea but Nintendo is always does BC.
the so called 720 or xbox 3 needs a new CPU and GPU and a new disk media so cost will be high in my view.

Sony took a hit this gen but champ is back next gen when they could have the cheapest console and the most powerful also the xbox3 and PS4 should launch H2H.

PS4 = $400
Neko_Mega  +   1192d ago
You do know Sony has made money from the PS3 Vs how many 360's sold?

Sony has reported $50mill more, which isn't a bad deal when they only sold 47mill worldwide (At the point of time).
HD_GAMER1989  +   1192d ago
yeah all the ps3 needs is more ram and a better graphics card, and faster and larger blu ray drive.but i have suspicion theyre going to pimp out the original cell cpu by making it smaller more efficient and faster.

also isnt the ps3 only using like 6 or 7 cores out of the 8.

by using all 8 plus

i want a fully integrated psn from the start though with better features.

and is theyre away to improve the bluetooth chat while playing games man talking to your friends online is a garbled mess with way to much static.and ear damaginf high pitch screeching noises. like i love bluetooth headsets but man they are way to sensitive and unstable...like maybe its not the bluetooth and its the connection but theres got to be a way to improve voice chat cause i got good internet plus a 130 dollar jawbone era and it sounds like shit sometimes. I hate the 360 but man xbox live is amazing. sometimes i wish the ps3 had the xbox live.
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Neko_Mega  +   1192d ago
I so see Sony marketing a new disc for PS4, most likely the 1TB disc that has been worked on.

I do think 360 will get Bluray but mostly because Sony is going with a new disc format, because I don't think Microsoft would pay Sony to use Bluray.

It would hurt Microsoft because Sony will make some money off of each system sold.
Kon  +   1190d ago
hahahah 1TB disc for next gen consoles... Kids these days...
Neko_Mega  +   1190d ago
You might what to look it up, there is already a disc that does it. Just they haven't market it yet.
bwazy  +   1192d ago
I think we're well past the era for 1080p. Many computer monitors can easily go 1600p+ easily, sorry for lack of exact resolution.
HD_GAMER1989  +   1192d ago
dude thats the dumbest comment i ever heard yeah moniters can go that high to bad in takes a gaming PC to achieve that and thats not guarenteed to have a stable framerate. if every next gen console game was 1080p native with a 60fps + id be happy.

your just being completely illogical though.

plus with 3d and all
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Neko_Mega  +   1192d ago
Plus from what I seen, its very rare to get some of the parts to run that high or even higher and the fact that most PC games lack the support for it to.
HD_GAMER1989  +   1192d ago
yeah ive down some gaming on a pc a bit and unless you got a serious computer theres so many factors that cause the frame rate to drop. having it on 1080p with some aas and mlaa and so fourth with 30+ framerate is an accomplishment. the guy above is just a biased pc gamer that has a bad ass rig or hes just too stupid to realize people use their consoles on hd tvs not pc moniters.

pc gamers just hate the idea of sitting on a couch with a controller in your hands and a 50 inch lcd 1080p tv infront of you.

they wont stop till they turn that image into a 26in 2560 x 1440 pc moniter computer desk chair mouse and keyboard 2000 dollar gaming rig to power that moniter. last but not least a hunch backed pc nerd with carpal tunnel sitting infront of it all.

oh and a n4g account so you can troll console based articles. and say pc's the best on a uncharted 3 article *facepalm*
Neko_Mega  +   1191d ago
@HD_GAMER1989
I found a computer that does 48GB of ram and the tower is huge (Big like a box for a SD TV that is 37inchs).

With it fully build to play anything, it is about 20,000 dollars and that isn't counting anything but the computer with no screen, keyboard or mouse.
Dan_Vivian  +   1192d ago
I'm not sure Microsoft will use Blu-Ray discs. It would be great is the new xbox did, but it's highly unlikely. And as to why the PS4 would need to play NGP games is beyond me. Surely you'd want to keep the two things separate? I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool, just unnecessary.

But despite those things, i'd agree with everything else. The consoles do need a much greater amount of memory to keep up with PC gaming. Whether console gamers like it or not, PC games are better now. Shift 2 is a great example. I have played it on both PS3 and PC, and it looks a load better on PC.

Great article though, and it was interesting getting another persons opinion on the subject, and not just a biased "PS4 is going to be an implant that'll destroy the xbox" or "The xbox 720 will be more powerful than the sun and melt the PS4"type of article.
a08andan  +   1192d ago
Tnx :)

And about the NGP. I mentioned this since the NGP will be PlaystationSuite compatible and I see no reason why the ps4 wouldn't be. The only thing that you would need then is a card-reader and those shouldn't be that expensive. It would be a good way to have a much larger library of games playable on the ps4 at launch and enable you to charge your NGP while playing on the ps4 :)
Dan_Vivian  +   1192d ago
Yeah, i guess i didn't really look at it that way to be honest. It would be pretty cool though to be able to use the games on more than one machine, similar to what they did with the PS1 titles being available for PS3 and PSP.
TheDivine  +   1191d ago
But nobody would buy a ngp if you can play the games on ps3/4, i wouldnt until its 150/175ish.
Raf1k1  +   1192d ago
If they allow you to play NGP games on the PS4 I doubt they'd create a new controller for it since then you wouldn't really need to buy an NGP to play them.

I think they'd probably allow you to play NGP games on PS3 using the NGP as the controller which would make more sense.
a08andan  +   1192d ago
Yeah, it shouldn't be to hard to sort that out with blu-tooh or Wifi^^ That totally slipped my mind :D Tnx for mentioning it! The whole thing with owning an NGP is that its a portable devices so it wouldn't exactly be optimal to play NGP games on the ps4, its just an option they could easily give us. The graphics wouldn't be that great :P

Edit@Raf1k1:

Ye that is what I am seeing as well. I believe that the PlaystationSuite is the beginning of an overhaul of connectivity between devices and the interface in those devices, so I totally agree with you.
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Raf1k1  +   1192d ago
I think you're right about the Playstation Suite and that they'll be making things easier for developers working on new Playstation consoles.

Sony will most likely add a lot of inter-connectivity between the NGP and PS4 but they need to make things much more streamlined to give users a really good user experience.

I think the PS3 and PSN overall have been lacking somewhat in the UX and UI department.
Ingram  +   1191d ago
"Those 512 Mb are used to output games at 720p and 30 fps.

Now, in order to achieve the "1080p 120 fps" we have to look at what is increased the most and try to add that up."

Remember, SPU's are used as a part of the GPU too, not only for queueing HD audio and FP ops and such

I'm sorry to say this, this blog is well written, but you should revise a bit your technical knowledge before giving for granted certain things.

I agree about the SSD part though.Do not count on 160Gb, most likely a minimal amount for caching, say 32/64Gb.

Main ram might be that high if it's low performance (ddr2/3) but then the bandwidth would constrain it dramatically, and you can then forget about BW compatibility in that scenario.

Remember, main reason PS2 is so hard to emulate by PS3 is PS2's GS DRAM (48Gb/s! faster than the fastest part of PS3!, unbelievable huh?) XBOX360 learned from that and added its famous eDRAM, which in this case, helps a lot with AA and such.

PS4 should have about 1024/2048 XDR2 memory + 1024 GDDR5 on the GPU.
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Dno  +   1191d ago
good post but there is ZERO chance you can play NGP games on PS4 without using a NGP.
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telekeneticmantis  +   1191d ago
Before the Wii HD speculation began. There were rumors of The controllers having touchscreens for both the Xbox 720 and the PS4, I'm a bit surprised the wii has it now.
Dark_king  +   1191d ago
The only thing I would really like in the next Playstation is separated ram dedicated just for the OS.512 megs would be good enough to run any background programs like cross game chat,in game music... ect.It would also allow for instance access to the XMB in game.
Im not even going to think about the CPU for the PS4 as Sony likes to push that area.They tend to really jump up in performance each generation.
Now its the OS software I think Sony needs to spend some time working on.Its needs to be a seamless motion as you move from say the internet browser to netflix or anything else.With ram dedicated for just the OS it would allow them to change things without having to worry about using memory that the games need.As the OS is in the PS3 anything they add takes potential memory from the games.Cross game chat for example would use memory that would be better used for future games.Separated it wouldn't matter the games have the 2/4/8 gigs without the OS ever taking anything away.
steve30x  +   1191d ago
They should work on the OS in such a way that it is very similar to the PS3 OS so that DEVs would find it easier to move on to the PS4 / Xbox without having to change their dev kits too much. Maybe they could just update the OS (Like moving from Vista to windows 7) which would help.
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steve30x  +   1191d ago
I think they should have seperate ram for the system. So they should have 1GB System ram and 4GB graphics ram with dual graphics chips that have 2x 2GB ram. The only problem would be cooling the system down. Their biggest problem will be designing a cool looking case (because everybody that will want a console wont settle for anything less than fancy) that will allow good airflow , that will not restrict cooling and a case that has cooling that wont be too loud.
mbtshoeslockes   1191d ago | Spam
xer0  +   1191d ago
Not sure about the card reader.
Bluetooth and WiFi should take care of any cross communication.
dumachi  +   1188d ago
imo xbox 720

6 core processor at 3.3ghz
3gb triple channel ddr 3 ram
1gb gddr 5 dx11 gpu with 40mb of edram
Losseless 7.1 channel sound
blu ray drive
built in wireless n
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dumachi  +   1188d ago
imo xbox 720

6 core processor at 3.3ghz
3gb triple channel ddr 3 ram
1.5gb dx11 gpu
Losseless 7.1 channel sound
blu ray drive
built in wireless n
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steve30x  +   1185d ago
A console wouldnt need 13GB for its OS because the OS doesnt do much really. The ram is needed for HD Textures and AA in high resolutions. I say at least 2GB for graphics and 1GB for the OS.
riskibusiness  +   1187d ago
Let's just say MS has been doing lots, I mean lots of testing with the Larrabee tech (Intel Knight Corner). I believe MS has a fully working XBOX 360 emulator running on this platform , So you put the pieces together..... Along with the rumors Intel sold the rights for MS to fabricate and own the tech. I have heard the emulator runs on 10 cores quite nicely. Throw in one or two processor @ 50 cores ea plus a specialized Ray Tracing co-processor (Caustic inc), ANA 3.5, 4-8GB DDR5 and MS is set for another 10 years.
steve30x  +   1185d ago
I would agree with your specs but if those specs were in the next console I would see it costing 3,000 - 5,000 euro. An 8 core CPU alone is over three hundred euro.
riskibusiness  +   1180d ago
2 X 40 Core Knights Corner 22NM can be done for about 23.00 per processor. So $46.00 initially and then reduce the cost by economy of scale. They are also looking at a new stacking technique that actually allows a kind of 3D stacking of processors. This will allow greater compactness, but will have greater initial cost. Time will tell.
steve30x  +   1179d ago
UHUH thats why a quad core I7 is over 280 euro.

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