PS3 and 360 have always appealed to the more serious gamers, and a push for blockbuster Kinect titles (decent ones) would mean hardcore gaming gold.
Because its to busy "kinecting" with casual gamers
Because your controller is a better controller than you are....
Haha your point is funny actually...Xbox has the best controller (IMO), MS release a piece of hardware that eliminates the controller. *sigh* oh MS.
I don't know I like the Dual Shock controler since it feels good with all differen't types of games, with the 360 controler it only feels better when your playing FPS.
LOL @ another silly fanblogger Kinect vs. hardcore article number 4,080.. The best part is the title of the article has NOTHING to do with the article itself. The rumored Gears game that Cliffy never said existed not releasing had NOTHING to do with who is playing Kinect. No matter how many fan bloggers and detractors pretend otherwise, Hardcore gamers own and play Kinect. 360 NEVER needed Kinect to control shooters as the 360 controller is simply perfection for shooters. Just in the last month hardcore gamers were using Kinect for Mass Effect 3..i bought Tiger Woods 13 launch week on the strength of playing it with Kinect. The funniest part of the ignorance that sites like the purport when you can simply look on a random Mass Effect multilayer profile and see that they got achievements in Kinect sports, Dance Central and others. The whole hardcore argument was silly from day one as GAMER play GAMES period. The 360 hardcore gamers are the reason the top franchises for the system are blockbusters, Kinect isn't going to change that. What the device does is ADD to the experiences that the 360 offers in gaming and multi-media entertainment. Nothing more and nothing less. Evil
@SockeyBoy @VanillaBear Seriously, why? MariaHelFutura's comment has nothing to do with which controller is the best.
@ cooguy1212 Your right I didn't mean to bring controller wars into the discussion, I was only pointing out the irony, that's all.
If Kinect was aimed at hardcore gamer would there not be more hardcore games on it? It is clearly aimed at casual gamers, not sure why it takes so long for people to figure this out.
Kinect's uses ultimately end up being shallow for a few reasons. The idea of it doing full body tracking just falls apart as you actually use it and look at the realities of creating a game for it. First of all, no one wants to PROGRAM for perfect, 100% body tracking. It would be too much effort. So you're stuck with barely mapped limits that the developers create. Even the most serious efforts like Rise of Nightmares were smart enough to make it so a simple motion put you on rails. Second, Kinect simply isn't accurate enough. They aren't going to patch in more accuracy, get it drastically more right next time, or get the "right" developer.....Kinect is what it is. It WORKS, but the writing is on the wall...it's far from perfect. Very far. Traditional controllers, analog and buttons and all, are more reliable. Dance and fitness games aside, what has Kinect brought that couldn't be done already? Allowing you to wave and yell at your TV in place of clicking two buttons? How immersive is it to use a controller that works half as often? For the Wii-type crowd? Fine. That'll do. Get some minor cardio or play Wii bowl for 5 minutes....that's great. But it will NEVER make any significant impact on those that play traditional games.
so then why did micro state that they would have plenty of harcore games for kinect? they stated this plenty of times before and just after release with a wait and see tagline, regardless, it is what it is, going by sales they are doing something right
@ EVILDEAD Mass 3 using voice commands was useless, most didn't use it. PS - you bought Tiger 13 last week so Kinect is doing great? I am not sure you buying a yearly sports game in a terribly down year with a terribly down game means hardcore players love it. In fact, you playing Kinect validates it being a casual thing.
'Mass 3 using voice commands was useless, most didn't use it.' Correction..It was useless to YOU..Not me. LMAO @ preteneding that because EVEY gamer that didn't use it matters to the ones that did. Here's a fun fact MOST gamers dont use Move ot Kinect to play the games that each are compatable with. But, it won't take away the OPTION for those that do, no matter what your opninion of it is. 'you bought Tiger 13 last week so Kinect is doing great?' Newsflash..Kinect has been doing great since launch me buying Tiger doesn't change anytihng. Which ON TOPIC, is the reason why Epic not makinbg a rumored game has zero to do with the success of Kinect. 'I am not sure you buying a yearly sports game in a terribly down year with a terribly down game means hardcore players love it. In fact, you playing Kinect validates it being a casual thing.' LMAO @ pretending that because a game is a yearly sports title that it less a game that core gamers play? So Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed two of the biggest core franchises out there are any less core because of the time between their release dates. Once again here are the FACTS, Hardcore gamers are among the millions and millions of gamers that OWN and play Kinect. The same 360 core gamers that went out and made Gears of War 3, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, Battlefield 3, and Elder Scrolls the biggest core games last year are the some of the same gamers who own and play games on Kinect. Mass Effect 3 and Tiger Woods are the most recent implementaion of Kinect being used in core experiences. I bought Tiger 13 for Kinect this year, just like I bought Tiger 12 and Tiger 11 for Move in the last two years. EA will use Kinect for it top two core sports titles this year Fifa and Madden. At the end of the day, whether you have experiences that a tailored more for the core such as Gunstringer to Steel Battallion, at the end of the day Kinect is an optional experience that is not for everybody. But, as always it's those that don't even own the device who complain about it the most. Evil
lol @ you people discussing this, Why MS should care about Hardcores not buying kinect, if casuals are doing it anyways? Money is Money, no matter where it comes from and Money that comes from Kinect is already in MS's Bank Account :P
Lol @ evil... "Hardcore" gamers do not care about something that doesn't have any buttons and has up to a half second of input lag. They complain enough about a few milliseconds of lag during their online play, why in the world would they care about flailing their arms around only to see their actions represented on screen a half second later, not even factoring in online lag? Kinect has uses for hardcore gaming, but unfortunately not any that have yet made use of it in a way that no other setup could do. For instance, Mass Effect 3 using it for voice recognition. Wii could do that, or PS3 with the eye. All it takes is a microphone. We've been doing voice recognition for decades now. I used to use it on my PC in the 90's to call up songs. Even head tracking can be done with 2d cameras. This isn't to say kinect doesn't have it's place, it obviously does or it wouldn't sell, but it never has and never will be a hardcore gamer's desired item. It's a casual gamer's toy, nothing more.
@sikbeta And why should I care that MS is making money from casual gamers? Should I care that Apple is making a ton of money off of causal gamers too? People like you make NO sense. You guys always say "why should company X do this for gamers/hardcore gamers/fans when doing Y makes them a ton of money" as if we should care. Why should I seriously care? Hell, them making a ton of money means they have no excuses not try and have a unique hardcore game that can only be done with kinect. But people like you and Evil will always say MS don't need to that. They are already making a ton money, 360 gamers are always happy, and hardcore gamers always use kinect all the time lol.
LMFAO @ the usual suspects like frosty and Outside coming out to play.. I love this internet ducktale fantasy world where ca small segment of gamers NOW pretend that ALL gamer are EXACTLY alike..simply because..you know why "Hardcore" gamers do not care about something that doesn't have any buttons and has up to a half second of input lag.' Too bad millions of 360 gamers prove you wrong. No matter how you spin it..50% of those record Kinect numbers from launch even through that crazy Black Friday were existing 360 gamers. You know..the ones who were hardcore from day one. Look we get it YOU don't own or like Kinect..but it's laughable how people pretend that they can't fathom that gamers don't enjoy ALL kinds of games..period. It why a billion of us bought and still own Wiis in the first place. Even better is Outside still trying to pretend all 360 gamers are somehow miserable because he says so. See unlike Outside's CLEARLY false statement I NEVER pretend that ALL hardcore gamers play Kinect ALL the time. I'm just the only one keeping it real. Who on earth would pretend that every gamer likes anything..let alone Kinect. That's like pretending ALL 'hardcore' gamers like EVERY 'hardcore' game released because they are supposedly 'hardcore'. Once again, the 360 hardcore played the biggest hardcore franchises on the system for over half a decade..but sorry to break it to you..a whole lot of em' own and play games on Kinect. Don't worry though..it's not the end of the world..you can keep pretending the world is flat is though. Evil
He's at it again! LOL You call me a usual suspect and I call you a usual MS defender fair enough huh? Moving along... Evil when did I say that ALL 360 gamers are miserable? And you claim to keep it REAL LMAO? We all know you'll defend MS till the death, but of course you'll deny that too and "pretend" to keep it real. I didn't literally mean that all 360 gamers are happy, all of them like kinect, etc. I was just saying that in way to express how you would defend me bringing up the notion that MS should make an actual hardcore title that is exclusive to kinect. What does "there are hardcore gamers that enjoy all types of games" have to do with anything? There still aren't any hardcore titles for it and by that I mean exclusive to kinect, don't bring up tacked on game please. If hardcore gamers aren't buying kinect for hardcore games then kinect is failing to bring a hardcore experience, thus kinect isn't "kinecting" with hardcore gamers, it's just "kinecting" with their casual side, END OF. ***"the 360 hardcore played the biggest hardcore franchises on the system for over half a decade..but sorry to break it to you..a whole lot of em' own and play games on Kinect. Don't worry though..it's not the end of the world..you can keep pretending the world is flat is though."*** This is something you have got to stop doing. You make yourself out to be butthurt that I am making an argument against your comments. Nobody is playing "pretend" here. Except for maybe you since you insist to pretend that other are pretending...
@Evil... The Kinect and Move needs more varied and in-depth games dedicated to them...which for some translates into hardcore titles. Who bought the system is not in question, but the quality of the games they can support. The tech for both is cool, and many "hardcore" bought it to check it out. After all a hardcore gamer is much more likely to play a casual game than a casual gamer a hardcore game. However the potential to revolutionize gaming just isn't there when it is only used for voice commands, etc. Sell millions? Sure, but it doesn't mean it is going to be used or move software, unless it hits that rare "casual" gold like a Wii Sports or Dance Central. Otherwise expect low quality shovelware and lots of dust on the Kinect. Don't be defensive. The EyeToy sold too, and that was used for all of two days in my household. I'm still waiting for something other than Heavy Rain for Move. So it isn't a Microsoft/XBox problem. It is a motion control problem. That said, I hope MS, Ninty and Sony don't give up on motion controllers. I think they have their place, but only on the periphery. Honestly, with Dance Central in Star Wars and Sorcery being worked on ad infinitum, I don't think either company knows what to do with their respective motion controllers. One day, some dev may give us that hardcore Kinect game, but it doesn't look like it will be Epic.
Because it sucks!!! And the only thing that's supposedly hardcore is some on-rail shooting crap!!!
Kinect needs a nunchuck type controller before it gets my attention......again Even golf games dnt feel right without a controller. Then again that's available with move and wii and that doesn't interest me either Bottom line ANY gimmick body/move controls don't work for games I play IMO
@ sikbeta Bravo bravo I 100% agree.
Why Isn't Kinect "Kinecting" with Hardcore Gamers? DO WE REALLY NEED TO ANSWER that??? SERIOUSLY do we?? controllers better than body movement.
I have no idea. With so many hardcore games for Kinect that arent on-rails and all those games that "Better with Kinect" having the entire experience improved and expanded, Im genuinely baffled why hardcore gamers arent running out to buy it. Oh wait, Kinect doesnt have any hardcore games nor do the games that support it get any improvements that make it a necessity. Mystery solved.
theres really no games for kinect. Theres even a low amount of casual games for it aswell. And games that have little kinect features aren't that great like looking at a car on Forza 4 or driving a car with the kinect its just easier to use the controller. If they'd make some good games other than the same stuff you get for the Wii or Move than I'd be more inclined to get one and play but theres not a single Kinect game that I would say I truly want to play.
The truth is that they don't care. No matter how much people try to convince you otherwise, they don't care. No hardcore gamer would give up their controller for Kinect.The question is 'Why jump around and swing your arms everywhere when you can just pick up the controller and sit down'. So in short hardcore gamers don't care. And to make it worse casual gamers who are used to playing better games then Kinect games don't care either.I am talking about the Mario Kart, Sly Cooper, TMNT 2 type of casual not the play Angry Birds and any dumbed down game type of casual.
Funny thing the KinectAddict did a video of him playing tiger woods online with kinect aginst a guy with a controller and was wrecking him with kinect. Once he told him he was using kinect he rage quitted. I think that kinect working depends mostly on 2 main variables space and familiarity with the games controls this is the smae with controllers of course your gonna suck balls at the game if you dont really know how to play.
That doesn't stop people from not caring. Sales and scores speak for themselves. Look at Child of Eden that was supposed to be what brought the hardcore and haters to Kinect. It barely sold at all and it got many great scores. No one cares about people shouting 'You just suck' or 'Your doing it wrong' or 'turn your head to the side and lift up your arm and it should work 'or just grab a stick to get some physical feedback'. When people sit down with a controller, it is comfortable and easy. People don't want to have to raise their hand every time they want to throw a grenade or talk to the screen for hours or swaying back and forth just to try and navigate with a car or pretend to walk across down a path. I know people will hate on me for saying it but unless it is simplistic, Kinect barely works. I have heard people say it, I have watched it in action and I have tried it as well. Maybe the next version will work better but for now hardcore people just really don't care.Deny it all you like but lackluster scores and/or sales for Kinect games are proof how much the gaming community are interested in Kinect. I mean look at this http://gamrconnect.vgchartz... http://www.vgchartz.com/gam... It couldn't even sell a Sesame game, to children.Children who would ask their parents to buy anything with Elmo or Big Bird on it or in it and it didn't even break a million units and so close to the holidays.
Because it adds nothing. Move and the Wii add little as well, but the physical controller does add a level of immersion Kinect simply can't.
just grab a stick or something people have been doing it since the kinect first came out im surprised that barely anyone knows this it actully makes it work better too.
Forgot about buttons...teh buttonz!! LOL.
Becuse its shite?
Already mods and shit with kinect being used with hardcore games. Most hardcore gamers dont care because MS isent really pushing hardcore honestly everyone has said once in there gameing lifetime that so and so would suck then ended up probably likeing it. MS just needs to flail a bunch of money towards hardcore titles and open up the marketplace to indie kinect titles seeing as indie developers are makeing the stuff Hardcore gamers want to see. I mean i would reather go through a dragon fight on skyrim with the skyrim kinect controlls and addition of voice commands then sit on the couch for 4 hours, hardcore can be done on kinect and until its done right doing all the usual things that appeal to hardcore gamers with kinect controls that bring out the usual controller controls of the game once this is done hardcore gamers will start to soften up.
That is like asking, Why aren't grown men into Sesame Street?
Haha,that is true! Literally!!!
I like grouch, obviously kermit...
Who published the report saying hardcore gamers don't own a Kinect or like them? I personally don't believe there is a such thing as a hardcore or casual gamer. At the end of the day there are just gamers to me, some just might enjoy a different genre or different game than you might. I'd like to know who's research went into finding out if so called "hardcore" gamers have a Kinect or use it. I consider myself to be a gamer, I enjoy Gears, Halo, Forza, Fable, Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Batman, Skyrim, GTA and a ton of other so called "hardcore" games. At the same time I've enjoyed a lot for Kinect like Gunstinger, Haunt, Rise Of Nightmares, Kinect Sports, Dance Central, Child Of Eden, Kinect Rush and even Star Wars was fun for me. I think its all relative, I do see a ton of trolling in this article though, which is always fun to breeze through because everyone loves a bunch of ignorant comments from people who don't own a Kinect and haven't played any Kinect games. Stay classy N4G.
"I personally don't believe there is a such thing as a hardcore or casual gamer." Course there is....don't be silly If someone came up to me who plays on games like Cooking Mama/Wii Fit/Any dance game and told me they are a gamer just like me I would want to punch them in the face. I don't want to be associated in the same "Gamer" group as someone who plays on crappy casual games, in my opinion they aren't gamers they are just people playing on games here and there to either pass the time, people who have been suckered into advertising/hype or because they think it's the "in" thing to do....having no real passion for gaming whats so ever and that is something casual gamers do not have.....a REAL interest in gaming Would you really want them to be called gamers aswell like yourself, someone who actually does have a real interest in games...I wouldn't
So what if I play Dance Central and God of War? What does that make me. I could care less what category I'm put in. I just game to have fun.
It sounds like you just don't want to call them gamers. They have given up their time to play a game and you call it passionless... So what dose define a "hardcore" gamer, by the way?
I guess we'll agree to disagree. A gamer is a gamer, just look at the official definition. Gamer, noun: A person who plays games, especially computer or video games. Cant really make it much clearer than that. I think people just try to label these things to continue pointless arguments like this or to feel better about themselves when it comes to gaming. The bottom line is that we all just play video games and there is nothing hardcore about it. I think people who play shooters can play Kinect and people who play handhelds can play RPG's. Why try to demean fellow gamers with bogus labels?
There's a definite difference. If you look at a sports car and a sedan, they're decidedly different. They serve some similar purposes, but also some different ones. Both are for traveling, but while one is designed with performance in mind, the other is designed more around ease of use and accessibility. Of course, there are sport sedans that straddle the line, like the Cadillac CTS-V. And you can stuff a sedan's worth of people into some sports cars, or make the performance of your sedan more sport, too. But most cars either fit into one category or the other. It's the same with gamers. I consider myself a hardcore gamer. That's not to say that I've never played Angry Birds, used a Wii, or danced in front of a Kinect; I've done all those things. But I spend the majority of my gaming time playing core titles in core genres: Persona, Uncharted, Gran Turismo, etc. And it's not just about dedicating time, but also the type of game you play, and the importance you place on gaming. Is it just something to pass the time, or does it matter to you? Again, you can straddle the line, but most people fall into one category or the other. If gaming is any sort of deal to you, then you're part of the core; if you've got specific genres you prefer, and specific developers and systems you like, you're on the hardcore side. But if you ONLY play to pass time, and don't think much of gaming beyond the little bits of enjoyment you can get here or there; if your library consists primarily of apps on your iPhone and Just Dance, you're a casual. It's really not that hard to figure out. Like the difference between an amateur and a pro in pretty much anything. One devotes far more time and attention to a given field than the other(and don't forget the semi-pros in the middle). (Edited for errors.)
I haven't used Kinect but my best bet is the same reason most enthusiasts didn't like the Wii; standard controls. Most gamers play gsmes to relax not move around a lot. The wii's best gsmes are the ones that didnt require you to get off the couch. The wii's gimmick has a type of control st least. Kinect is like playing naked to a gamer (no controller)
Because there are no "hardcore" games made for Kinect? Because Microsoft only advertises the to the casuals? Because "hardcore" gamers aren't stupid enough to waste $150 on an add-on so late into the generation?
Let me take a crack at this. Why isn't Kinect connecting with hardcore gamers? Buttons, input, lacking 1 to 1 ratio, games on rails because of the previous listed. Am I getting close? Seriously, is this article for real? Kinect is a casual magnet and MS is marketing as such. Nothing but smoke and mirrors/ dog and pony show. Wishful thinking and pipe dreams is what MS is selling with Kinect. Not games, especially not "hardcore/core audience" games.
Because it's crap.
Because it offers no experience any more engaging than those on the Wii and PS3 Move.
Because Microsoft is secretly watching you with Kinect and the smart hardcore owners know this.
What about Sony and my Move? (which, btw I haven't used in months)
sell it then, why did u even buy it if your not gonna use it? plenty of games on the ps3 support move from lbp to killzone 3
If it's any company that breaches your privacy without you knowing about it, it's Microsoft. I think Kinect owners are a party of lab mice used by Microsoft in their study of kinection and being kinnected all the time.
I love hardcore games and I also enjoy casual games. Why can't people enjoy both?
I use to have a issue with different type of games. I now just say they are games.
there is a difference between casual and kinect. kinect = casual, casual =/= kinect
How about Kinect Jackass , get the user to inflict pain on their fellow player , should get the hardcore going.
Could be the lack of decent games... jus maybe.
or the tech doesn't do anything but broad body actions. it needs a wiimote to be complete. right now, the best games are dance games
This is like saying, would I rather play air guitar or with an actual guitar.
Because its not for the hard core gamers.... Duh....
Cause Kinect/Move/Wii are just bridges to VR.
as a wise man once said "I am not the controller. Im a human fucking being. I dont want to be the controller, so get that shit out of my face." that pretty much sums it up. gaming without a controller is a patently terrible idea. end of story. it pretty much eliminates every major genre of hardcore games besides rail shooters. The kinect is inherently incompatible with hardcore gaming.
Hardcore = Couchcore that's the problem haha I think it works better not as a completely new controller but as an extension of the console to the player, like Mass Effect was trying to do, I'd just like to see menus being controlled with the hands OR the controller and being able to change between them, voice recognition works pretty well too, but the delay is another problem, the camera still feels laggy.
Because of the games stupid.
Kinect isn't bad, it just doesn't have games that appeal to the hardcore crowd. Despite this, I'm a fairly hardcore gamer that likes to play shooters and realistic racing games/driving simulators, but I can enjoy a freindly game of Kinect Bowling/Darts/Football with friends or family anytime. Forza Motorsport 4's Kinect implementation was pretty cool, I must admit. Ghost Recon: Future Soldier's looks even cooler! :-D
games... obviously... once they think up a good gaming application then it'll start getting used, right now its just a $150 dance game thing
Its funny how Microsoft is all of a sudden in the motion control business, when a few years ago Bill Gates slam motion controller gaming!!! Claiming that its not always accurate, and prefer a traditional controller. http://www.play.tm/news/108... Boom 2010 comes now the rise of Kinect LOL!!! What hippocrates.
I just bought a Kinect and must say that I was a hold out for along time. What sold me was a price drop from a $149.00 to $89.00 plus I had a $10 gift card. My kinect also game with 3 games. The main game I bought it for was Tiger Golf 2013 and Ghost recon future solider. I must say that the games and demos that I have tried have worked VERY well. Its a shame that the software makers don't take advantage of the power of the Kinect( and now after seeing this Gears of War project canceled really makes me wonder!) I remember the sony PS2 tried something like the kinect,but didn't support it. Lets hope that MS doesn't let the Kinect suffer the same fate...like it did with the add on and exspensive HD disk drive!
What power of kinect? It has no onboard processor, it did at one point before launch but was pulled to cut costs done. Your referring to the eye toy it was a very niche market. Ms advertised it as replacing the controller for gaming, and it didn't. I would not be the least bit surprised if it pulls more time as a web camera for chatting than used for gaming.
The sad part is the only thing the kinect camera is good for is the Kinect video chat. It won't work as a still camera. I'm glad I kept the xbox live vision.Even then to use the live vision ,I will have to disconnect the kinect. By me holding out on the kinect you can see that I wasn't sold on at its launch.There are some good kinect titles out there,although some are very hard to find( Brunswick championship bowling and Rapala Kincet fishing) and others that will never see the light of day like the Gears-o-war title mentioned in this story and Heavy Fire Afghanistan. With that said ,it makes the kinects appeal to hardcore gamers a VERY hard sell as its future doesn't look all that great! Thanks for your input and reply.
Games don't really appeal to them. Kinect Star Wars was promising until they showed the demo at e3 and than final version was exactly like most people thought on rails pretty much with really bad controls. Now only game even worth giving the hardcore crowd look at is the new game from Crytek Ryse. Ryse could end up like Kinect Star Wars since the trailer was all pre-render big time. On quick note why hasn't Lucas Art given PS Move a chance with a Stars Wars game. Ps Move is actual 1:1 and the controller would feel more like light-saber