SCEA's recently appointed senior director of corporate communications has downplayed Microsoft's Xbox 360 1080p announcement, and also shrugged off the console's HD-DVD drive.
Well this is going to happen, Sony will bash MS and MS will bash Sony. They're no better than each other.
5 years ago when we as gamers werent that aware of the gaming industry and it's specs. We would feed into this,but his comments and facts are weak and have no effect on 360 games and the space a game needs. Games now already have enough space. Damn hom much longer do we need Oblivion to be. He forgot to mention how expensive it is to make a game on the PS3 and how much games will cost. Come on man u insult us with your weak comments. The whole break down is much bigger than just more data space, and 1080p is comes down to GAMEPLAY period.
Of course this was inevitable...Get ready for the fireworks.
""It's unfortunate that Microsoft's external HD-DVD drive will not enhance the experience at all for the gamer,” he wrote. “Sony realizes that to truly take gaming into the next generation requires a larger data format for both games and movies. PS3 uses the Blu-ray format for gaming, giving developers 50GB of high-definition storage on a single disc, while Microsoft's 9GB DVD gaming format is an obstacle for storing HD content.”
Developers like Itagaki , Starbreeze, EA, etc agree with this however. I've read plenty of other developers greatful for having more space, and plenty of complaints for not having enough. Not always needed, but definitely beneficial.
I would have gladly paid $100 more for HD-DVD to be included from day for my 360.
I might have actually thought about getting a 360 at launch if it had an HD-DVD drive included for gaming.
It's about time Sony pointed out the differences in the Xbox 360 being able to upscale games to 1080p (which any 1080p tv will do anyway), versus the PS3 being able to output a native 1080p resolution. Sony's PR machine should have spun into motion when MS announced this, maybe they're integrating it into Kutaragi's keynote, but it seems like they should be hitting back hard and explaining the difference.
Put it on two disc.s, 2 DVD's, ohhhh,ahhhh. Difficult huh?
Blu ray is a joke and not needed at all, ever!! I don't want a directors commentary of the making of and waste storage for that crap.
xgamer cd was a joke to ? oh i forgot you would to change 100 diskettes if you want to play a game. you are a total moron, you cant stop the evelution.
All in due time Sony fanboys. I agree with games will need more space MS will worry about that next gen lol.
And there's a lot of developers that agree with what they're saying (including the guy in charge of Team Ninja). There's nothing wrong with having 6x more storage space than DVD, and next-gen games with HD graphics, huge worlds, and crisp sound quality need that space more than ever.
If you're arguing for PCs not needing it, that's for PC games only. It's an entirely different platform. Fact is that game devs have been begging for more space, and Sony's giving them the means to achieve their goals with fewer restrictions whether you like it or not.
I don't care what Sony says. We don't need Blu-Ray for gaming.
I could care less about 1080P. My television only has a native resolution of 720.
Since when has anyone indicated that the lack of HD-DVD for gaming on PCs is a real problem? I don't care too much for cutscenes filling up my game play experience..
there so full of it with that Blu-Ray [email protected] This site will clarify on this issue
but yeah, if I was a close minded insecure gamer I'd hate hearing facts as well.
"Consider that even with compression, each of our “levels” (or loaded areas) has more than 300 megs of unique data. And keep in mind that we’re also streaming data during level playthroughs. It doesn't take too much level data before you've gone past what can be stored on a dual-layer DVD. And between single player and multiplayer we have a lot of level data (over 40 different large loaded areas) – yes, more than will fit on a dual layer DVD.
" We also include ALOT OF DATA IN THE FORM OF GAME MOVIES in both HD and PAL formats, high quality audio streams for all supported languages and some of those Insomniac “EXTRAS” that our fans have come to expect. "
EVERYONE AND I MEAN EVERYONE should read the link above. dvd9 has enough room now, and will still be enough room 5 years from now. grat job MS on saving me money so i can buy more games!!!!
Ive kept this link for while just for stories like this.
More chest-thumping. I'm sorry, but the divisions between MS and Sony marketshares are going to be a lot less noticeable on this outing and exclusivity is going to become a thing of the past. That said, most developers are going to be looking to hit the sweet-spot to target both consoles. So, aside from Sony's first-party franchises, I don't really see a whole lot of games actually using the extra storage space.
However, you can't say stuff like that on this website, because your comment actually made sense. A rarity as of late.
Nuff Said. Now they downplays it. Damage Control that's all.
Sony has said allot over the past few years. (Not all of I has worked for them and this wont either) Personally I think they should do anything possible to down play MS. Right now the 360 is riding a wave of success and if Sony wants to stop it they need to do and say what they can. If MS wanted to be dirty they could just bring up the delays and the down graded features or even the price point. I think Sony should just stick with bashing and screaming RRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE RRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCC EEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the games you mention will be better on the PS3, it will unfortunately still not be fair to compare the PS3 games to the 360 games (as I think most of us would agree).
The PS3 is getting Ridge Racer 7...the sequel to Ridge Racer 6 on the 360.
The PS3 is getting Full Auto 2...the sequel to Full Auto on the 360.
Does anyone here not expect these _sequels_ to be better, regardless of the platform? Much like any game with a follow up, the second game will show some obvious technical improvements over the previous game.
To compare the two as "proof" that one system outperforms another is just ridiculous...not that logic seems to enter this debate anyway.
Both Dvd drives and Blu-Ray have slow data read and writes, a truly next-gen system and I bet Microsoft will come out with one in 5 years will have a new format to increase dramatically the read/write speeds of the format because this is really the only bottleneck either system has. Anyone that says 9 GBs is not enough storage is just a PS3 Sony Fan bot. Do you honostly think all those developers werent in one way or another influenced by Sony to say what they said? I think so...
has been exclusively developing for Xbox for a long time (as well as the 360). You think Sony swayed him too? Come on, DVDs were a 7x increase in size over CDs, and devs on the PS2 filled those games up in no time (a lot of titles even use two dvds). To assume the HD era of gaming can survive on 8.5 Gb alone is a bit foolhardy. And if you're going to argue for compression techniques, those have been in use for ages. Hell, just look at Resistance. 300Mb per level after compression, with 40 levels. And that's without game code, scripting, object and character models, animation, etc.
DVD is limiting; plain and simple.
But I am genuinly worried about drive speed for Blu-ray. If you do some research you'll find out that 12x DVD isn't that much faster than 2x blu-ray, but it's still a bit low. The Hard Drive is there for caching, so that gives the PS3 a significant edge over the 360, but I don't think it'll be enough. The U.S. Playstation.com page removed the Blu-ray drive speed specs, so hopefully they're putting in higher speed drives. It would help a lot, and give them even more of an edge.
You and the Sony guys are both right! we need more space but not right now, Sony's just trying to push their Discs. GGI DEV's that depend on CGI to sell their games will lociclly agree with Sony right off the bat. lol MS will come out with an Super console next-gen with larger disc's after they strenthen the industry enough to consitute bigger games. MS fans are mostly Adults and do other thing besides play games and there will be so many games people don't have the time or money to keep up, so that could factor in also.
honestly, y would M$ need hd-dvd for gaming wen their advanced compression techniques already reduce the size of games at an astonishing amount? Retards...
People said the same thing when Sony introduced the DVD drive to gaming with the PS2. The point is that Devs will use however much space or hardware you give them. They will find a way to make it work on the format that they're using. Yes, the devs may be able to fit all of the Xbox 360 game on there, but you don't know how much stuff they wanted to do but couldn't because of space. You end up with repetitive textures, dialog, etc. If MS and Sony had put in 2 gigs of Ram in their consoles and 1 gig video cards, the devs would use every bit of it. I'm just saying that Sony is going somewhere that all of their devs are appreciating, and is being risky this time, whereas MS went with the safe route (the status quo) and stuck with DVD-9. This will increasingly start to show in the next several years.
Sony is the Champ! With a first round KO!
Delayed launch in Europe, U.S. and Japanese Launch allocations cut 75%, Sony's stock in the toilet, Blu-Ray losing every comparison to HD-DVD in quality (and HD-DVD is HALF THE PRICE), PS3 losing exclusive games (i.e. Assassins Creed), big companies like EA waiting to see how the launch goes and holding games back (No wrestling game for PS3 this year), coupled with the difficulties in manufacturing the PS3 (I assure you that 20% working yields on the Cell and the whole Blue Laser Diode fiasco isn't the half of it) leads to Sony being absolutely, unequivocally, and irreversably owned by Microsoft AND Nintendo. And see, I didn't even mention those Killzone renders, all the things Sony copied from their competition, their lies about things like why no rumble is included in PS3, the list COULD go on and on. So get over it-- Sony will bash Microsoft anyway they can instead of trying to solve their own shortcomings and admit their mistakes. It's the type of company they are.
MS had its chance to put a dent in Sony's armor. MS totally missed a great opportunity, but they rushed their console, have crappy games even a year later, are trying to lie to people about 1080p, when its only upscaling to 1080p. Sony is poised to take over the next gen console with ease.
I am so glad, i didnt get caught up in the hype of MS and the 360, what a waste of money.
You didn't get caught in the hype because you were always a Sony fanboy.
Lost Odyssey in AMAZING, just to name a game, it blows every game ever made out of the water visually using a DVD. 360 games aren't crap, that is why they sell more copies than PS2 games, when the installed base of PS2 is way larger than 360's installed base. It's called good games.
WHO EVER RUNS THIS SITE IS STILL LETTING YOU TALK, IN EVERY ROOM I GO INTO YOU ARE EATHER TALKING OUT YOUR A$$ OR YOUR COMMENT GOT BOOTED.
It's funny how they keep pressing storage when in reallity all they are trying to do is slip there BR format in the market. The 1080P update is free, HD-DVD is an option MS is just trying to sell a gaming system not a HD player (unless you WANT one).
That Any 360 Game needed More storage until sony mentions that bullsh1t? Notice how sony turn the story back into Sh1t about more storage when the topic is clearly about HD Resolution. I Fuking hate sony now more than ever for not PWNING up to their bullsh1t actions.
Half of you Sony Fanboys won't know what a Video game look like in HD cause you never played 360 in all of its glory nor will you know what storage is cause it never affected gameplay in anyway. if you tell me Ninja Gaiden Black on xbox Suffered in length because it was on a DVD9 instead of Blu-Ray i Honestly would smack you in person. As a Matter of fac have any of you even seen ninja gaiden on a HD TV set? Pure bliss.
You can't Be serious half of you Fanboys hated Halo and the whole FPS Genre for what it done to it and now you think R:FoM i supposed to Dethrone the King Without a Fight and Are ready to play them now?
Matter of fact i Got a idea For Sony. Just Market the Sony Viao laptop as the new Portable PS3 and i bet it would sell (Sh1t it does everything a PC does right? Including running Windows XP).
Well yeah okay I like it but I don't. Really I wouldn't mind them getting off the high horse they have and treat us like they care. But anyways they say how cool it is then really it's not now.
Ridge Racer 6 was cool I liked it. Is 7 for ps3 only? Ah well doesn't matter I'll have it too.
Tell me were you live so you can smack me in person.
Sony's getting their asses handed to them. watch Attack of the show on G4 4 p.m. PT. They have a different take on who's dishing out the punches. #15 you're a funny little guy. lol
See Me Nucca. Gamertag SDS OVERFIEND. And i Won't Smack You.....................
I Beat the Fuk outta You.
it's 93rd you moron. you must think your big sh!t since you threatin people over the internet. lol
Blu-Ray is not needed at all. Everyone heard of small arms? That game is several gigabytes but in the end it will be below 50mb, which is the max size for arcade games. So with that kind of compression DVD-9 are just fine.
Do you have a link on that please?
SCEA’s Dave Karraker wrote to games blog Kotaku, “…Microsoft's announced HD games patch is really just a compatibility feature -- upscaling lower-resolution content does not make it Full HD (1080p), something that PS3 can do out of the box."This guys clearly doesnt have a clue whats hes talking about,the 360 can output 1080p natively,games and movies,the 360 gpu is more than capable,MORE capable than the rsx.Sony just need to get over it and stop with all the lies and spin,man it just makes me realise even more what a desperate and embrassing company theve become,no doubt the sony drones will sap it all in as gospal but luckly the rest of us know better...
"the 360 gpu is more than capable,MORE capable than the rsx.Sony"
Ha, it's funny you say this even though you have no idea what the specs are for RSX. However we do know that the clock speed for the RSX is 50 mhz faster than the 360 gpu, that doesn't say much but it definitely shuts you up.
I Respect you guys to the Fulliest for seeing what take other eternity. Please Like Flavor Flav said "Don't Believe the Hype"
What a load of tosh ! Sony are just 'trying' to justify Blu-ray anyway they can ... but at the end of day every report I have read Indicates that massive amounts of storage space simply wont be used for anything other than HD CGI intro's & cutscenes.
And did MS ever say the 1080p Patch was anything other than upscaling ? considering that the vast majority of people dont even have a 1080p compatible HDTV ... Sony are talking pure [email protected]
Resistance: Fall of Man is using over 300 mb for each level, times 40 levels = 12 GB right there. Then you've got the character assets, AI, the info that is being streamed during the levels, you've got the multiplayer modes, co-op modes, Dolby 5.1 (or is it the new HD tracks) audio tracks for multiple languages, HD cinematics, etc. You also have the fact that this game will be in native 1080p, not 720p upscaled to 1080p (which any 1080p tv does anyway) or 680p (for PGR3), upscaled to 720p then upscaled to 1080p.
What do you expect? Isn't the PS3 Sony's bread and butter? M$ just undermined one of Sony's strong arguments of superiority against the 360. Also, I wouldn't go too far as to think that what developers want it's always good for the consumer. Let me ask you this, how much memory developer would prefer on the consoles 256 MB or 100 GB? How much Disk space would they prefer 50GB or 1 TB? It's obvious that developers will always want more since this reduces the amount of work they have to do (i.e. Compression, code optimization, etc) this nice to have luxury for developers usually translate to the consumers being forced to pay extra for hardware, without any improvement on game play and an increase of loading time. Now I’m not saying more space it wouldn’t be nice for developers; but why should I be the one paying extra for it, let them pay for it. Plus at least prove to me that this is beneficial for games for other than CGI cut-scenes (I usually skip them or watch them once).
CGI cut-scenes are watched once. I have broken controllers because of cut-scenes back in the day before they allowed you to skip them. It's all taste alot of PS fans like watching cartoons and are fans of the Japanese style. (Sorry! achira!)
Sony needs to say and do what they can at this point. They are getting owned by Nintendo an MS on thier own terf. If some one was in my house kicking my @ss I would get dirty too. But they still are full of BS point blank.
SDS they just got hate in they blood boy. Stay true play boy he aint coming to your hood for jack S#!t
bread and butter. just the way 360 is not microsofts bread and butter.
No ps3 games that are currently in development will be bluray. what!? Blu-ray loads WAY too slow and there are no games that take more than 9GB of data. With faster consoles comes better compression.
There is no need for HD or bluray games. HD textures are larger, but the systems are faster so they can compress those textures to the same size or smaller than textures on the current gen. Its faster to decompress than it is to read off the disk.
Sony once again puking propaganda to the morons that think more is always better without looking at the facts.
You can't tell exactly how they will load all you can do is specualate. I would prefer that Sony uses blu-ray that way I can have a game that doesn't have to load up every couple of seconds like Oblivion and maybe devlopers will be inspired to ad features to the games instead of take them away as in the case of Madden football. Also I would enjoy the fact that PS3 games would have longer storylines then Prey or Chromehounds or oher games that seem to say to me "as long as there is online play don't worry about the depth of the gameplay' and this is a horrible path for devs to take. Most devs have already stated that they would take full advantage of blu-ray using they extra space for extra gamemodes that aren't just videos. EA as said that the PS3 version of Madden 07 will have extra gamemodes and slightly improved textures and graphics over the 360. So if it takes a minute to load the game when you turn it own but it supports better graphics, more gameplay and depth then I will gladely support a format for gaming that will offer me the gamer mre game for my money because many games on the 360 do not.
As a gamer you should be thrilled about receiving more gameplay and modes for the same price as a 360 game that offers less and sure I will still purchase 360 games that aren't avalible for PS3 but if it is a multiplatform title I will purchase it on the PS3 over the 360 in the hopes that devs used the extra space for more gameplay or better graphics.
By your logic, faster systems necessarily create better compression, then it would be theoretically possible to have a supercomputer that is so fast that it can take textures that occupy all of one byte and then decompress that and get a full hd texture that looks great in 1080p. That is beyond ridiculous. Compression algorithms can compress images to 85% and still look good, but you can't just infinitely compress them and still expect to have high fidelity textures. And since the precompression textures are going to be in hd they are going to start out bigger than they were last generation and after compression they will still be bigger than compressed textures were last gen.
i thought u were a sensible person but u are becoming a fanboy just like jid, dj, real deal/top gamer..................
I did not mean to let YOU down. ; ^ (
I've been called a fan boy before for just keeping it real. I like Xbox over PS like I like I like Nike over Reebok is that means I'm a fan boy well then so be it. I just do not like Internet gangsters talking about who they are going to smack. It's like on live when some guy calls me out of my name he only dose it because he thinks I can not touch him. That is just dumb right.
So fan boy or not I've been gaming for 21 years and it got allot better when Xbox came into the picture. If that makes me a fan boy then so be it. And if you compare me to top gamer and jin and dj your just telling me that you do not read my post.
Today my post says clearly that Sony needs to do what ever they can. And guess what. "THEY DO.
I've said before and I'll say it again, If MS wants to make the HDdvd drive available for game play too, they could. It's all software driven, and anyone who thinks they couldn't do it, is a moron.
Sony is on their heels big time.1080p only for them was one of their big reasons to spend more, now people don't have to. It's almost laughable, they had better pull a gigantic freakin rabbit out of their arse if they don't want to get completely pwned, and unfortunately the MGS4 trailer(which big surprise, looked nowhere near as good as the freaking trailers) ain't gonna do it.
A little confusion over this whole 360 1080p thing...
Will the 360 be able to natively pass though 1080p? I mean, IF the article is true, then isn't the 360 update for 1080p useless? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't every (almost every) 1080p upconvert the signal anyway? Also, the TV’s scaler (especially that of a 1080p TV) would almost certainly be better than the 360’s scaler. Anyway, I guess this would help DLP HDTV gaming lag on 1080p TVs regardless if this Sony comment is true or not.
Also, why has not MS released a HDMI cable for the system yet? You don't have to have 1080p in order to use HDMI - if the current 360 port is digital, then why would not there be one out yet? I believe that even though the port may be digital, it does not adhere to all the specifications defined by HDMI (1.1, 1.2 or 1.3). I mean, how could it? If HDMI is defined by such specs, then anything that would adhere to such specs could be called HDMI and the 360 would thus have an HDMI port. We know that it is not called such, just an AV port, so it is not as good as HDMI? - Weird logic. Please, I am not bashing the 360. I am just trying to understand the facts.
Nevertheless, even if MS proves this Sony comment to be true, it is still great news for the 360. I'm still waiting for the PS3 (I have my reasons and don’t hate me because I made a choice against what many of you made - I mean, after all, no politician gets 100% of the vote, and I don’t hate people that vote for the guy/woman I voted against. Let's act civilized people! This is a great era for all gamers! Let’s not ruin it by destroying the most fundamental part of gaming: PEOPLE!)
The 360 might be able to support HDMI cords if they release an add-on adaptor since it has digital output. Whether or not it'll be of equal quality as a built-in HDMI port has yet to be seen. And unlike the PS3, it wouldn't be HDMI 1.3
It would most likely be the equivalent of DVI (which is just HDMI 1.0 without the sound information). But until that happens it's still outputting through component, which all HDTVs have anyway.
have u ever heard of the word RUSH?
And as much as I'd love to counter it all (for like the 97th time) I'm just going to wait for TGS, which starts in exactly 7 hours.
Thats funny. lol #30 It's known all over the planet that the PlayStation brings home the bacon for Sony. PS3 is the only way they can earn back; the company killing amount of money they invested in their next-gen technoligies. I try to keep my posts simple but don't make me post a bunch of BS.
"the 360 gpu is more than capable,MORE capable than the rsx.Sony"
Ha, it's funny you say this even though you have no idea what the specs are for RSX. However we do know that the clock speed for the RSX is 50 mhz faster than the 360 gpu, that doesn't say much but it definitely shuts you up.lmao another guy who clearly doesnt know what hes talking about,the rsx has been downgraded by 50mhz to keep good yeilds and heat issues,so i suggest you go back to the borg mothership and get your facts right before u make a dork of urself...
Damn not to many people know [email protected]
Confused by all this 1080p talk. And damage control done by sony.
Enabling 1080p for the 360 puts it exactly on the same playing field as SONY.
It will be outputting 1080p Period.
Now, both the ps3 and the 360 will internally upscale 720p games(as they both have) and 1080i games(as they both have) to the 1080p resloution.
But, here is where the confusion is at, Both the ps3 and the 360 will be outputting 1080p via the console. SO if you are watching a blu ray movie or an HD dvd movie...it will be true 1080p high def. Understand?
So if a dev makes a game in 1080p then it will be presented in full 1080p. Not uspcalled or up converted as in the 1080i games will be. Understand?
So while sony deliberately was misleading by his comments. Both the ps3 and the 360 will upscale 720p and 1080i games to 1080p. He didn't mention that. And sure the ps3 is the only console that has 2 games confrimed for 1080p as of now. But with the firmware upgrade for the 360 it will be capable of it, if devs choose to go that rout. But the HD dvd player with 1080p enabled in the 360's dash, will display FULL 1080p as will games if utilized.
And DJ is at it again. When the 360 releases an hdmi or dvi cable/adapter....it will be 1.3 complaint.
And once again. The dvd9 disc doesn't hurt cutting edge PC developement and it sure don't hurt 360 developement. If a developer was ambitious enough to need more space for more than just 5 different languages and the making of the game, on one disc....they could very easily make a game with multi discs. And the time it takes to change the disc is much faster than the slow loading times of the ps3's 2 speed discs. So games will never ever suffer due to disc space. Why? Because more discs can be used if neccissary which I don't believe will be....Games did it back in the day with CD's. I don't see a problem with devs doing it with DVD's if needed. Understand.
You said, " And DJ is at it again. When the 360 releases an hdmi or dvi cable/adapter....it will be 1.3 complaint."
I can surely say that you are wrong about DJ. I am positive that the 360 will be unable to support HDMI 1.3. How do I know this? Umm...the HDMI 1.3 specifications were announced AFTER the 360 was made. Only a hardware update will enable something to support HDMI 1.3 - not a firmware update. So, it is either that MS will be making a new 360 or everyone will not have HDMI 1.3 (which adds mainly lossless audio with an increase in bandwidth.)
Compliance just means that it's a lower version, but can still work at that level on higher level hardware. Like the new ATI GPUs that are HDCP compliant; they're compliant, but they don't support HDCP. Their practices are currently under investigation due to this misleading rhetoric.
Capable means that it outputs. And only the PS3 is capable of outputting HDMI 1.3 (Sony spent a lot of time and money upgrading their HDMI output capabilities). If an add-on for the 360 is released, it will only output 1.0 since it just has a digital output. Nothing fancy.
This has been known for a very long time. (BTW, thanks L.H.)
links proving ur point pleaze. forgive us but we just don't believe u. u hav lied so much & u come across as full of poo 9 times out of 10. from all i have read hdmi 1.3 is all in the cable and not in the hardware. i have never read what you claim. i think we have all figured u out dude. bash/lie...repeat...bash/lie.. .repeat.
also... the 360 output is digital not anolog. do dvi 1.3 and hdmi 1.3 will be available for the 360 at some point. hopefully before the ps3 launch so sony fans can shut up with all this nonsense. so jealous you guys come across. its so clear.
and top gamer. good way to put an end to the sony fanboys ranting about all that upscale and not true hd nonesense.
I will provide you with a link, but just think about it – why would Sony have to say specifically that the PS3 (hardware) will support HDMI 1.3? If the whole 1.3 thing is in the cable as you so claim, then wouldn't Sony just have to just say that the PS3 has HDMI in general? Yet they did because the 1.3 in on the hardware end. If it was just the cable, then all HDMI devices would support 1.3. Thus, it would be redundant to say that saying that any HDMI device supports 1.3 as they all do. The only logical conclusion is that the 1.3 is on the hardware end :)
Here is a link:
If u ask me i think most of these PR folk as well as whatever exceutive on all side make better politicians, the retoric in the article from the sony guy is no different to what they spout everyday-- by deflecting the discussion to something completely off topic....NICE To be honest it seems to me the whole debate about space started when sony made it an issue and frankly i do believe even if the 360 had an HD-DVD drive we would still be here posting useless comments b/c in their efffort to 1up the competition on hardware specs it would still be about who has the most space