From PSS: With gamers forming protests over the Mass Effect 3 endings, we here at PushStartSelect wonder when it was that gamers started feeling so entitled and why Bioware caving in is a bad thing for the industry.
When companies started lying?
Hmmm...But lying about what? Did they explicitly say what the ending of the game was going to be?
No, but they said the ending won't come down to a set of simple choices lol
*High fives redDevil* Exactly what I was about to say. But on topic, why is it so taboo for gamers to have opinions on games they didn't like or enjoy because of things devs changed? I never seen so many articles for journalist and critics telling gamers to stfu and take it.
Have not played or followed the ME series? Here's thread, that keeps getting locked, from the bioware social network that list some of the lies they told us. http://social.bioware.com/f...
Okay that's valid, but what game companies don't? Seriously, they tell us things that they EXPECT to happen, and sometimes that's just not how it goes down during the production. Take Peter Molyneux for example. Look at all the lies he's told, but did anyone petition or protest Fable because it wasn't what he said it would be?
@darklordzo Yeah but I think people didn't get there hopes up more with Fable 3 after Peter first lied about Fable 2 Least the guy has admitted he hypes up things too much and lies Bioware would rather cover things up and pretend everything is alright. Besides do you actually know why people are p*ssed off with the ending Please watch the Shepard's Indoctrination video on Youtube if you havent and you will see how many plotholes there are http://www.youtube.com/watc...
@Dante112 The article doesn't say people don't have the right to voice their opinions (hell that's the whole purpose of the article itself). I bitch about stuff all the time. The point being made here is what's changed in the industry that gamers think it's right to demand stuff from the devs?
darklordzor: Just because some people protest / have an issue with companies lying and others don't doesn't mean that either side is right or wrong because the other has acted or hasn't acted. If a company is advertising a product and states that it is supposed to have X quality and Y feature and that it is an integral part of it then I don't think people are wrong for questioning it not being there when the final product comes around. I do understand that things may change during production but a lot of the claims people are making against Bioware/EA are about not just what ME3 is but about what the whole series is about and how ME3 has sort of negated some of the main premises about it.
@darklordzor "The point being made here is what's changed in the industry that gamers think it's right to demand stuff from the devs?" - darklordzor "Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome." - http://masseffect.com/about... Gamers just want what the game that Bioware said Mass Effect 3 was going to be. They bought the game and were rightly upset that they didn't get what they paid for.
I just hate the idea that we are owed something just because we bought it. What we're owed is the game we paid for, not the rights to change what we don't like.
they owe us as much as we,the fans invested in their product expecting good results,something to satisfy our needs.Especially the story,what's a game without a story? especially an RPG,and having all that time played deciding which choice,what consequence;I think people do deserve something good at the end.
What we're owed is what they said would be in the game. Of course they don't have to do anything, but then I think a lot of upset people won't be buying anything Bioware related again either. It doesn't have to be a happy ending, just something that actually fits with the rest of the story and shows how our choices throughout the trilogy mattered. Hell, the idea of changing an ending to a game isn't new. Bethesda saw people were upset with Fallout 3's ending and they fixed it, did that bring an end to all video game devs as we know it?
Overall I think we are "owed" a good experience and gamers as a whole are just tired of not getting that. Complaining doesn't seem to be doing the trick anymore, so more people are going to greater lengths to get attention. I think its true that you should "just not buy the game" but Mass Effect 3 already built the fanbase. Something like a flawed ending isn't found till after you buy it. They already had 2 stellar games so the fans were trusting this next one would be the same. When it isn't, you get a bunch of people that just spent 60 bucks on your game mad. Especially when they also bought all the previous DLC, games, and spent countless hours trying to achieve dramatically different endings. Plus lets face facts, there are tons of people that buy a game even when it sucks, so the true fans not buying it isn't going to do anything. Simple, developers are getting lazy and need to stop and make better games. Then this won't/ wouldn't have happen(ed).
@Soldierone "Simple, developers are getting lazy and need to stop and make better games. Then this won't/ wouldn't have happen(ed)." I also think that this ^ has become the real problem. The ending of Mass Effect 3 was really more like the straw that broke the gamers back. More than likely BioWare is feeling the brunt of many years of gamer disappointment much of which they brought on their self with their questionable DLC practices and their half-assed work on DA2 (which I actually liked a lot BTW, but you would have to be blind not to know it was a very flawed/rushed game). For years gamers have been getting stuck with crappy/buggy games, since they cannot be returned. Not to mention that for every game that is actually worth the $60 asking price another 5 are too short, or too lackluster to deserve to charge that much. We buy into the hype that gaming website/magazines feed us by the bucket, and we foolishly run out and pre-order these games on trust alone, because if we don't pre-order we might end up missing out on something unique to the pre-order package. Just one more way that gaming companies have gamers by the balls. It used to be that we could at least rely on the professional game reviewers to warn us early if a game was going to be a let down, but now many game reviewers have become pawns of the game companies and they cannot be trusted to give an honest impartial opinion. Instead game reviewers serve as mouth pieces to the big gaming companies. So which side are they going to take when the majority of ME3 game fans stand up and demand change, well of course they are going to side with EA/BioWare and call us all a bunch of entitled crybabies. Just like they will side with the game companies on the issues of overpriced DLC and also on used games. Game reviewers are not on our side, they are on the side of the game companies and we need to keep that in mind. I don't really care a whole lot if I see an new ME3 ending, because at this point I have no desire to replay the game, but one thing that I will take out of this whole mess is the knowledge that very few professional game reviewers actually have our backs. I will defiantly use that info in the future to decide which websites to visit and which magazines to subscribe to.
We are entitled? Let's see, do I agree with the competant arguments laid forth by places like FORBES saying we aren't entitled and some things are to be expected...or do I side with arguments from random gaming portals littered with mindless drones? Hmmm...
ffs why does no one understand that when put easily over a hundred hours over 2 games and a multitude of dlc with multiple characters and many different decision you like to see count for something in the final game!
When you put time into a game, you're playing a game. You are essentially being entertained by a game for said amount of time. Over 100 hours being entertained by a game or a series (I've heard some people say more) is a pretty amazing feat for a developer. Implying that you 'worked' while you essentially played gives off the impression that you're a whiny little self-entitled brat. And the rest of the world...really could not care one way or the other. All they see are these people complaining about a game. I like Mass Effect, and I seriously want to play the last chapter of the story - but now with all of the commotion, why even fucking bother?
the premise of the mass effect game is that its a sci fi game with choices that make a difference to the game i played 1 and 2 and really enjoyed them but heard that regardless of decisions the ending is the same for everyone so i haven't played part 3 yet. The aggressive dlc plans they had for the games told us that our choices were important and people paid crazy amounts for that extra choice that would echo out and they seemed really fascinating (kasumi memory box thing seemed really cool i chose to save the data and wanted to see what happened next) . The reason why people are so mad about the ending is because they are passionate about the series and felt robbed(I remember a friend saying bioware would mess up the me series after he played da:o and then da 2) so yes the creators got pretty rich and rushed the ending which was a massive letdown to many people
I know 'why' people are angry, but the statement 'I put in over 100 hours to this game' is very off-putting. It sounds as if you feel that you've been working, when in essence - you've played a game for over 100 hours. And as I said in the initial comment, that's pretty impressive for a game to keep you entertained for that long. Obviously you liked the game, because you kept playing it and you care about how it ends.
Ohhhh, a Mass Effect picture and the Word Entitled = Instant Avoid.
Since when do we have to please the devs then? it's them who has to please us because and reality is without us they are nothing. The way I see it is that these media outlets are just trying to please publishers by writing these piece so they can secure future review copies.
Ha! I wish that were the case. If I could get any review copies from Bioware, I'd be a happy camper. Truth is I'm not even on their radar right now.
What Yellow13 said. Devs and publishers exist to make money, how do they make that money? By meeting the demands of potential buyers. If it were not for fans they would be nothing. ...I think Yellow13 meant the "professional" media outlets. ;)
Hmm, perhaps. But, you could always look at it from the flip side to that coin. Without the people who produce something that you actually enjoy and want, you would have nothing to complain about. Well, other than the lack of something to complain about. Make no mistake, I don't have a problem with people complaining, but get a grip and understand that it takes talent and drive to make any kind of artistic expression or creative undertaking. It's a commodity that is highly sought, because not everyone can do it.
We should all be smart enough to NOT EVEN CLICK onto a website that uses the latest industry troll buzzword "entitled"
I think there might just be this one article and the "gaming press" just keeps cutting and pasting it.
Developers handed themselves a big turd sandwich the moment they started asking gamers for their opinion. My advice to developers is: You better get hungry FAST!
Oh my god SHUT UP ABOUT IT. Everyone has had their say now, you're just peddling the same old arguments as the rest of the "gaming press", desperate to prove how "edgy" they are by going against the grain and essentially insulting everyone for hits. I know, we're all so immature for lamenting the state of the industry and the balance of power between consumers and big publishers. Please, give us another spanking and tell us to go sit in the corner for complaining.
Yep and since we gamers suck so much I guess they won't miss our clicks on their website.
Here we go again. I site that actually asks a good question and guess what? A bunch of the same whiny gamers that the article talks about comes to do just that, whine. Its funny how people say "Oh we put hundreds of hours in this game" bet you didnt put as much hours in the game as the Devs did creating "Their" vision. Hmm did I say their vision.Its this freedom that is their right and yet we should get our way because we buy their product. Obviously we live in a world where there are no bad games made and everything is made the way we want.Ive bought some very bad games that seemed like they were going to be good. So I guess I should find all those games and complain to all the companies to change them so they are what I want. Give me a break, grow up people. Oops almost forgot.... let the disagrees commense. As that really means anything. lol people these days.
Guess what: the "vision" for ME3 was supposed to be a game in which decisions changed the outcome. Decisions made by the player. So exactly how are they NOT entitled?
Oh I see, it is so much more mature to take the opposite position and whine about people who were unhappy with the game and had the nerve to say so? Yeah insulting others makes you look like such a grown up.
We became entitled when we parted with our hard earned cash for promises that weren't fufilled. This is my favourite quote from Casey Hudson: "It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.” What did we get Bioware? oh, thats right! a choice of A, B or C!
When did developers become so lazy?
If you can't take your paying customers feeling entitled to your best work and some basic honesty in your marketing hype then just get the hell out of the game business now and save yourself and your customers a lot of pain. This is not a business for delicate artist types and dainty social flowers. You are not entitled to your customer's support and enthusiasm. If you fail to earn it then they will turn their backs on you. And you will deserve it. Nobody needs to pay $60 for a huge lazy misguided disappointment after being hyped up for seven years. If you can't live up to your own hype produced by YOUR own developer interviews provided to the press and community for marketing purposes, then you really don't deserve your customers or their money. This applies to Bioware, Ubisoft, Silicon Knights, Kojima Productions, Grasshopper Manufacture, or anybody else. If you promise the moon and deliver substantially less then expect your "entitled" customers to call you on it, be angry and disgusted with you, spread bad word of mouth about your product, and probably avoid buying your upcoming games.
I am starting to hate the term entitled for gaming as much as the words casual and hardcore. Let's keep labeling more and more gamers to further instigate division between them. I'm sure the fights amongst themselves will bear many fruit......for the companies....
I agree. The truly sad part is that after finishing ME3 I was unhappy with the game, yet I still had interest in supporting future BioWare games, because I figured they would learn a lesson and do better in the future. However after seeing way too many of these types of articles bashing anyone who didn't like the ending and voiced an opinion about it, it has resulted in my losing all interest in future BioWare games. A perfect example of Game journalism at it's worst.
When people purchase a product they expect it to meet a certain criteria of what said product is. We could just never purchase anything from Bioware every again... would that be better? Bioware wants to keep their fan base and they want to keep the series going and that just won't work out when gamers are no longer satisfied with a product. I have supported Mass Effect since its release, just like Knights and Jade Empire. I have bought all DLC on this and the Dragon Age series and am tempted to purchase a PC to play their new Star Wars MMO. I have been loyal and followed the story to see a desirable conclusion but the game offers me one bleak conclusion with a massive amount of plot holes that just don't make sense. Sure I can add to the ending and come up with some non sensical ending to appease myself but I shouldn't have to. They don't have to gives us more endings, none of us can force them so the whole entitled really doesn't apply. They are opting for a resolution because they are afraid of the 10's of millions of dollars that they may lose in the future. They are seeking a resolution to help themselves not the gamers because losing touch with the fan base results in a failing of the product.
Gotten tired of hearing the words "entitled" and "artistic integrity" in every other article.
You had choices play out over 3 games determining who lives and dies, what happens, who falls in love exc. Almost all the big decisions in me1 and 2 played a part in the story in 3. I havent gotten to the ending but it is the end to that saga just deal with it. Its the conclusion. You finally get to see how it all plays out so be happy. Dont get it twisted. Just cause you can INFLUINCE the story in mass effect doesnt mean its your story. Bioware still own the plot and decide how it all comes together. If thats how they feel it should end its the only REAL ending. If its happy and we win or if its bad and we all die thats what happens.
I love how "entitled" is being used as a cheap buzzword to blanket all opposing views as nonsensical, illegitimate banter.
When did critics become like Fox News? Paint anyone that disagrees with your clear biased agenda as crazy and keep shouting you are right. Someone out there will eventually agree with you. Almost every critic has decided to go this route because gamer's had the balls to call them and bioware out on an average game with a bad ending.
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