Lazygamer.net's Garth Holden is...upset...that Bioware might cave in to entitled fans' demands
People are idiots. But.... Bioware/EA are more idiotic for actually refunding people who don't like the ending.
This is what you get when you raise people with the mentality of " the costumer is always right" and letting people think that they can do whatever the hell they want. There are so many problems on this planet yet people choose to bitch about a video games ending and going as far as to ask for their money back. I know that most of them just using that excuse to get a full refund and that way they got to play ME3 for absolutely free. It's just disgusting. I bet if you would gave a TV and gaming system to a child that never got a chance to play a video game because of his/hers parents financial state, that child wouldn't complain about ME3 ending. This example just goes to show how much of a cry baby most of these people are demeaning refunds and crying over a video GAMEs end because they think they are "entitled". Guess what, you are entitled to breath air and that is it. The rest needs to be earned and cherished. God, I hate people who think they are entitled to everything.
It's sad but more and more Americans have a sense of entitlement. It's unfortunate to see the turn society is making but it is more and more pronounced. This game is just the tip of the iceberg but it is still very telling. Just look who's in the Oval Office right now. The entitlement community just keeps getting bigger.
Exactly...people pay money to be entertained and have a good overall experience. Were you people not entertained? Did you not have an overall good experience? When you go to a football game do you demand your money back because your team lost? Stop crying already.
No offence but I hate people who seem to think they get to be the judge of whether someone is disappointed enough to request a refund. I will not be returning my copy, However trying to ascertain some level of self entitlement isn't what its about anyway. Its about being disappointed in the product the person purchased. If they want their money back let them ask, Don't ridicule them for it. Such actions just encourage large business' to do what they want and stuff the customers opinion. 10 years ago you could go into a store and return a faulty product for a new one, nowadays that same store will tell you that you need to take it back home (at your expense in travel) and phone the manufacturer of the product (often on a high rate line) and ask them to retrieve it, or sometimes even send you the parts to do the repairs yourself. We lose more entitlements with our purchases and you defend the company over the customer? Screw that, that sort of attitude is the reason companies get us to bend over backwards for them as it is
@limewax I work in a store. I'm the manager and I get people returning items to us all the time. Now if it's something reasonable and the person is polite and nice I have no problem helping them out so they don't lose but at the same time I have to make sure that the store doesn't lose either. Full refunds are usually not an option, exchanges are. But 90% of the time when people come back with an item they purchased is because they brake the item out of their own stupidity. I always make sure that everyone knows what they are getting EXACTLY just to rule out the "I didn't know what I got and that's not what I wanted" argument. But I'm pretty sure that if you have a half a brain you know what you are buying but if you don't than oh well. Why should I suffer for a costumers stupidity?? Now back to the product, if they brake the item out of their own stupidity than what do you want me to do??? Most likely, if I give them another one they will brake it again and they will come back again. Again, why should that money come out of my pocket?? Why should a store pay for a persons stupidity??? Well sorry but people aren't entitled to everything they think they are entitled to. Whoever got ME3 (at least the great majority) knew what they are getting. I knew what I got when I purchased it. I always research the products I want to buy before I do. That's such a basic thing to do today. We got the internet, it's a powerful tool, use it!! I always know what I'm getting even before I got it. I do not take chances. Maybe more people should do the same. But no, this is just stupidity and these cry babies just need a slap to get them back to reality. You should stop defending the stupidity and the immaturity of others!
yea lime you sound like the entitled youth that are plaguing our country now.
@Ares84HU So, you're telling me you're the MANAGER at a store and you can't even spell correctly? Wow, just wow.
While I don't agree that the ending should be fixed... I also believe that the ending should have been better in the first place. If they come up with new endings, I'm not going to care because i already sold my game. The series is already ruined for me. I don't really care anymore. But hey, that's just me.
to be fair to him, he didn't say that he's a dictionary store manager lol!
Gamers are going to end up killing their own pass time. I could understand voicing your opion loudly about you dissatisfaction with the way the game ended. But to play the game and then return it for a refund is is disingenuous at best. There are many games that should be returned. Many that are bad after 5 mins. This is a very well made game and is of high quality. I don't beleive that any of you paid $60 just to see the ending. If that is the case, you just had to PM me, and I would sent you the vid for free. What we have here, is a bunch of followers who play games. They would follow anyone who pretends to be leading a fight. There are many developers who's games I used to play, but I have stopped playing because I no longer like the direction they took the game. I have never, in my many years in gaming, ruturned a game because of an ending I did not like. I did not like the ending of Skyrim main story, but I still think it was the best game last year.
@LiViNgLeGaCY See my name? Ares84HU?? You know what HU is standing for? No? HUngary. As in I'm Hungarian. English isn't my first language so naturally I make mistakes every now and than. So, now let me see how well you speak Hungarian and if your Hungarian is flawless than we can talk about other things. This is another problem with people. Everyone judges others quickly without even knowning them.
Great post, great post above and great article. It only proves how much they loved the game. Unfortunately, this was a case of art over profit, and art got crushed. So, expect corporate to b making decisions from now on.
The customer doesn't know shit.
I don't think I'm entitled to anything, but If I pay for something I better get something in return. For example, I do not think I am entitled to a house, but if I buy a house brand new, they better do a good job on it. In ME3, they scrapped the original ending and wrote this one in about an hour. It's like if the bathroom sink was crooked, the bath tub has cracks in it, and the toilet was missing a seat in this analogy. People will not stand for Developers BS.
self entitlement? immaturity? stupidity? These people where led to believe that their decision making throughout the trilogy would determine the ending..This is like a movie promising a 2hr movie and its actually30 minutes.Who in their right mind wouldnt want their money back? They spent their money,who are you to tell them they shouldnt have such self entitlement to want refunds?Stupid because they got lied to? Your generalising way too much and making examples that have nothing to do with anything.. Someone tell me I shouldnt have a sense of entitlement towards any company when in split second that company would sue me for everything I got for stealing their cash cow crap and taking what to them would be a penny, I dont care about them.Give me what I want or give me my money back /rant And I dont even have a problem with the game. If you were led to believe something and you spend your money on it you can have all the self entitlement you want.I can see if a random site said your decisions matter BUT IT WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST FREAKING SELLING POINTS.It just baffles that people get called immature and stupid for being mad for being obviously ripped off. It doesnt matter if other games are bad that has nothing to do with this game nor the subject at hand.
@dmarc: It's not like that. They got a 2 hour movie they just didn't like the end of it. No refund for not liking the end.
Aaaand I'm going to buy this at 20$.
Exactly, do you get a refund if a movie has a bad ending? I mean, you still sat through it long enough to get to the ending, so you got your monies worth.
same can be said with music. you buy a Britney Spears album on iTunes, not like one song on that album therefore bitch about it and demand a refund and that Britney Spears rewrite the song? no of course that doesn't happen. honestly, never in my short life on this planet have I seen people feel so entitled over something they do not own at all. and the fact that EA actually caved in and gave people refunds is just spoon-feeding the babies. it's all very sad. off topic: I like the refreshing use of an adorable dog as the picture :)
Why the f*ck would they NOT get a refund if EA are stupid enough to pay out? They would truly be idiots if they didn't!
Actually you do get a refund if you just tell them that you thought the movie was shit...
You probably would if the director sat around marketing stuff that wasn't in the movie. Because that's what happened. More than a few things were promised, none were delivered. It's documented, quoted to hell and back, and ignored by self-righteous hate mongers who want to prove their superiority over someone else on the internet. It's not conjecture, it is there in black and white if people would get off their lazy asses and look at things before joining the bandwagons. Not everything you read on a journalism site is fact, especially when it's "gaming journalism". A more suitable analogy would be food. If you go to a restaurant and pay for a ribeye with a baked potato but they give a chicken filet with asparagus that isn't even cooked properly, I doubt you'll sit there and say "Oh well, the chef made this so I have to eat it."
If you watch a movie and really did not like it, you CAN get your money back. Look up people getting their money back after watching "The Artist," an amazing movie that many people simply did not like. Same thing here.
@CAPSLOCKFURY "Not everything you read on a journalism site is fact, especially when it's "gaming journalism". I think a more accurate thing to say is "very few things you read from journalists are fact", which is, sadly, fact. It's a shame people forget to question the first piece of information that enters their head.
There are problems with the ending, no one can deny that, but there is a right and wrong way to criticize. If we want Bioware to improve, we need to act mature and give them constructive criticism. And their are people whom deliver that kind of criticism. Hell, a good few are trying to explain Bioware how to improve, its just that those giving destructive critisism are pushing us farther away from the goal of the answers we need, because they feel they are entitled to everything. Those people whom have valid critisms and want answers are being pushed back due to all the jokes, sarcasm and even attacking Bioware employees from those giving destructive feedback. Pretty much those people are the idiots, not those whom act in a mature manner. Truth is, if I were Bioware, I would have given up on trying to explain, I would have just shut up and moved on. But Bioware is trying to make it right for the fans.... and based on some of the crap they are getting, yes I would have stopped caring, imagine if you got all the responses Bioware got, for something you believed in and enjoyed making. Leave EA and their greed out of this now. We aren't entitled to "a" ending, Bioware want's to make it right, they do not have to but they are. Give them positive feedback and they will respond accordingly, not F**K YOU BIOWARE YOU GREEDY MONEY WHORES, HOLD THE LINE. I mean, a hooker will stop taking your money, if you act extremely rude to her, she will just stick you the finger and probably kick your ass. Hookers are trained in Kung-fu apparently 0_0(jk, but still act appropriately) Basically Logical Individual(constructive criticism) http://www.youtube.com/watc... Idiot(destructive criticism) http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Very well said. Problem is, most of the criticisms I've heard (including those on N4G, oddly enough :S) are make alot of sense to me. Even weirder, most of the articles criticizing the critics, don't show they understand what the critics are complaing about in the first place. All they can talk about is artist not bending over backwards to please everyone. I know that customers are not always right, I'll be the first person to say that, but I also know we live in a balanced world, which means that sometimes (even if this isn't one of those times) the customers might get it right once in a while. I mean, just look at the endings! They're exactly the same with different colours...how is that art? But I totally agree with you. Bioware are not obliged to fix this, at best they should issue an apology and move on. But no, they're actually going out their way to fix it. At least it shows they care about their fans, even if they don't know how to show it. And I wish people will stop with the conspiracy theories. You guys are being paranoid. That's all there is to it. @ adorie People bitch about people bitching all the time. it what makes the world go round. The problem is some people don't know how to bitch convincingly.
I'm going to get disagrees with this. But how are the people BITCHING about people BITCHING any better? too many negatives being spawned out of negatives here for anyone to seem right in my eyes. If everyone just moved on, we could get back to the usual nonsense... top 10's full of empty minded drivel, cosplay that seems to be more related to games than a tron watch and your sales numbers, etc.
So, hang on, who are you bitching about, then? trollface.jpg
@adorie Fourth person bitching? No worries, I know what you were trying to say.
Completely agree. Charge them $15 for a new ending if they care for it that much.
I agree wholeheartedly. People doesn't get back the money when they get out of the cinema if they don't like the story. Bioware was wrong in refunding.
"Then my blood boils, to the point that I lose sleep, dreaming about a world where everything goes to hell because companies bow down to the noisy, mouth-breathing Neanderthals who clog up forums because something forced them to think. Something forced them out of their happy little Hollywood bubble, and made them uncomfortable. " Um, no. The "ending" that Bioware gave us just gets stupider the more you think about it. People are not mad over the fact that it's not the ending they expected. They're mad about the fact that the ending is dreck. That said, I do feel like an idiot for giving your site the hit that it was obviously desperate for. So I guess you have at least a little bit of a point.
yeah i agree with everything you said he just want hits.
Agreed, that's the problem with most defenders of the ending. They assume those who don't like it just don't like it because it's not happy. I've visited the Bioware Social Network a lot and one thing I can tell is that majority of those that posted all expected Shepard to bite the dust. Hell a lot of people said that scene with Anderson at the end would have still been a fitting end to the series so they somewhat acknowledge that an all hope is lost ending like that was beautiful.
Get your art out of my game!! If I wanted art and thought provoking poignancy (not sure if real word) I'd have went to my local art gallery and stared at a painting of a blue stripe for hours. Instead, I bought Mass Effect, a series about choices and how those choices affect the outcome of the game massively (sorry). I wanted my ending to make sense, I wanted my choices to make a difference. What I got was a load of dung. If thats art, then get it out of my game!
I can't believe there are people who actually liked the ending, but I'm not going to call them idiots, its their opinion, much like its an opinion that the endings suck. Does that make us idiots? no. The article author is an idiot and a troll. Just because many of us hate the ending of a beloved franchise does not mean we want hundreds of generic FPS games a year or are comfortable with that notion. There is no logic in that arguement - just like there is no logic to much of what happened at the end of ME3. I'm just sorry that I gave this website a hit when it was clearly trolling.
I personally enjoyed the ending, but can see why many did not. I think it's because I have my own interpretation of what happened at the end and it helps me accept it.
I agree, one of the best things about the movie Inception is that everyone I saw it with had a different interpretation of what really happened. I like that kind of ending...
Inception? Wut? Anyhow...I hope the particular interpretation of said ending does mean more DLc. If Bioware really did do what I think they did...****ing bear sized balls on them to take such a risk Also yeah the last mission was **** too. i didn't mind much, i just wouldn't preferred my 'fleet' to be visable on the battle field instead of me hearing crap going on in the backround and being separated from the apparent war that was going on. But the fleet you collected was simply a number.
If you thought the ending of Inception was controversial then you did not understand the ending. One of the editors actually has a 42 minute video in which he explains the ending, and there is only one "true" ending. Let me give you a hint, the Top does not matter.
@PwnerifficOne Tried to find that video with the editor and couldn't find it. Can you link it as I would be very interested to see what they say.Its just odd that an editor would know more about inception than the writer/director as nolan has said this: "Nolan adds that he tries to leave his movies open to interpretation. “There can’t be anything in the film that tells you one way or another because then the ambiguity at the end of the film would just be a mistake,” he says. “It would represent a failure of the film to communicate something. But it’s not a mistake. I put that cut there at the end, imposing an ambiguity from outside the film. That always felt the right ending to me."
i don't have anything against the ending but man the last mission was SH!T, i know i said this too much but i can't help it.. i wan't refund lool just joking
Idiots ? there idiots here are the media and blogger taking the "dont touch art " stance . The current ending wasnt even some artistic decision and license . Only a last min ploy and scheme to nickel and dime for paid endings . They wpnt be caving in when they release another ending ... just going with their plan
You guys do realize you're in the minority, right? There's hundreds of thousands out there right now who played the game and didn't have an issue, including the majority of critics who play games for a living. Suck it up, ladies. If the game had a tonne of endings it would simply be watered down. Bioware ended their story. Just like other media. Games, art, books, movies, songs - you don't get to pick the ending any more than you get to select which color paints a painter uses. To feel you're entitled to anything else just shows a disconnect with reality. You're not. Play the damn game. If you don't like it, don't buy the next one.
Why do people keep comparing games to film and books? Games are interactive. You have input. In Mass Effect you make choices that alter the story. Choose your own adventure novels are fair game, but generally I interact with a book by turning its pages and press play on a remote to watch a film. I love games so much because they are NOT like books and film. They are so much more. They can do so much more. And yes, the people who are complaining are the minority. But, it's a very large minority that grows by the day. And it's always the minority that gets things changed because they are willing to voice their concerns. I find it stupid that this supposed majority wouldn't go to Bioware with a petition to keep the game the same if they liked the ending so much. Basically I think this whole situation is BS. I didn't want the ending changed and I realised early on this discussion had nothing to do with art. I'm just happy we could all argue amongst ourselves and be called children and entitled when ,we were, for once standing up for ourselves, even if it was in a slightly obtuse fashion. Hooray for unity within the gaming community.
@ Darlride66 Just because those 'hundreds of thousands' haven't said anything does NOT mean they liked the ending. Not everyone who plays video games goes on forums or gaming websites. I have friends who play Mass Effect and don't go on N4G or the Bioware social forums etc.
@ Darkride66 Just because those 'hundreds of thousands' haven't said anything does NOT mean they liked the ending. Not everyone who plays video games goes on forums or gaming websites. I have friends who play Mass Effect and don't go on N4G or the Bioware social forums etc. EDIT: Sorry for double post - my browser messed up.
As has been said, "Just because those 'hundreds of thousands' haven't said anything does NOT mean they liked the ending" BOTH sides of the debate are a "vocal minority" compared to the entirety of people in the middle of playing ME3 or spend zero time in forums. That's how it is with, oh say, 99% of entertainment. "including the majority of critics who play games for a living" - After the eye-opening Jeff-Gamespot incident, there is NO excuse to blindly listen to reviewers on high budget games. To publishers, it's an obligation to give forgiving scores in exchange for early access and what-not. You're right, they do it for a LIVING. They have no reason to do anything BUT make publishers happy, because they have become fond of the ability to feed and house themselves.
Yep the millions who bought it all finished the game too right and they go on gaming forums? Like really I love the game and I didn't see how the ending would be as bad as people said but it has fundamental plot holes and made me feel nothing close to closure for the trilogy. Almost everyone I see complaining about the people who dislike the ending have never finished the game and are loving it(like I was) or are not invested in the franchise at all and just watched a youtube video of it. Everyone else has their theories(like indoctrination). Granted I don't want Bioware to change the ending and I'd just want them to explain how the plot holes make sense in their eyes. It's makes me more sad that new games in the series will most likely be prequels or take place during this trilogy.
@ pintheshadows: the "choices" you make in ME really only sends you along one of (obviously) three pre-determined paths. no one's story is *actually* unique. and games are like books/film because they are all creative works. you have every right to not like how the book/film/game plays out, and you can offer any criticism you see fit, but you don't have any right to tell the author how their work should ultimately end (by "you" i mean generally speaking, not you personally) or throw a i'm-going-to-hold-my-breat h-until-you-do-what-i-want type of temper tantrum. why didn't the majority create a petition to keep the ending the same? because they obviously don't care. they obviously possess enough logic/reason to understand that that's how bioware decided to end their trilogy (conspiracy theories aside) even if they may not have liked how it was done, and they obviously understand that they're the audience, not the author of the work.
I dont have an issue with the ending FYI (excuse i could use an epilogue for the team) and immensely enjoy the game . What amaze me are the bloggers and journalist coming out the woodwork just to have the opposite position as usual . And pretending art was the reason for the way things are today . I just dont believe for a sec Bioware is just doing a dlc in reaction to the backlash . it was already in motion
That Dog in that picture is deeply offended by the quality of this article. And it hates ME3 Ending.
While I agree that some people are taking this thing WAY too far (starting a class action lawsuit?!?! come on), the ending did suck. It basically took the whole purpose of the game(your decisions and how they affect outcomes) and made it meaningless. What was the point of even making the choices if the choices didn't even matter? If you want a well thought out article that explains it very well, I highly recommend reading this article: http://vgutopia.com/mass-ef... The fact that some writer(s) is/are coming out and saying that the head writer didn't let any of the other writers have any input on the ending explains a lot. They do the whole series together and then don't collaborate on the end...it showed.
"Then my blood boils, to the point that I lose sleep, dreaming about a world where everything goes to hell because companies bow down to the noisy, mouth-breathing Neanderthals who clog up forums because something forced them to think. Something forced them out of their happy little Hollywood bubble, and made them uncomfortable. You mean their customers? Yeah I hate when companies listen to their customers :-|
God forbid the earth revolves around the sun. A black hole is more "exciting" and offers lots of choices.
Is the ending to ME3 really that bad? I have not bought it yet and I am glad I haven't since all I ever hear is bad things. But I am sure to get it at some point.
If your a big fan of the series and made big choices in ME1 and ME2. You will be pissed off at the ending. I wouldnt had cared if everybody died its the way Bioware did a very lazy ass job at the ending.
Most of the people complaining about the ending all agree that besides the last ten minutes the game was actually perfect for them.
@Both of you I am really into the series I made big choices, I have gone all the way. I will wait till I see a sale or it just goes down in price. I just hope the overall experience along with the ending turns out at least decent.
***SPOILERS*** the ending just didn't make sense. The explanation for the reapers is that synthetics created other synthetics to kill organics, so that organics wouldn't end up being killed by synthetics they created? Great, so we get exterminated by synthetics regardless. So why bother with reapers? POINTLESS!
***SPOILERS*** I went with the full paragon destroy ending and got that little bit at the end after the credits with the old man and the kid. What annoyed me most was whatever choice you made, the mass relays would be destroyed thus removing intergalactic space travel, therefore ruining the entire franchise. Not only that, but why Joker was piloting the Normandy in space away from the battle was beyond me, also, I had Garrus and Ashley in my team right until the end...so how come they're suddenly on the Normandy with no injuries? its retarded ending with no logic. Mass Effect deserves a better ending. My perfect ending would be Shepard having a beach party with the surviving main cast set a few months after the incident when civilisation is rebuilding. Clichéd? yes, but we deserve a good ending. I think the main issue is that whatever we did throughout the game didn't really mean anything. There was no cutscene at the end showing the condition of Earth or the fleet. Instead of answering our questions it just created more.
I am sorry that people are actually stupid enough to buy more of an ending that should have been fleshed out and included with the conclusion that we have been waiting for since 2007. But I am not about to apologize because people are disappointed that they did not get it. As we most certainly did not get it. It's not entitlement either, it is just a matter of paying for something and not getting what should have been there. It's something that people have been waiting 5 years for, but we get get baited with DLC instead. Sure, some are going overboard and nerd raging it to hell and back, but at the core, the disappointment is far from being unfounded. At any rate, I would rather see them just leave it the way it is, rather than try to make more profit off the controversy. Considering how it ended, I can't help but feel that this was the intent all along. Whatever, shitty ending and all, the series is done for me. Luckily, I only rented it from Gamefly, but the people who bought it have every right to be upset.
Yeah I think the entitlement line is thrown out there without looking at what these "entitled whiners" are doing. It's not even entitlement anymore for them, the fact that that charity shows that they've more or less agreed that the ending in ME3 is what they got and that they're willing to shell out cash to change the ending. Entitlement as an argument is flawed because the charity proves people are willing to pay for new endings, but are not willing to risk giving their money to the company that may have very well planned this from the beginning.
I can understand peoples frustration, but honestly when have our choices REALLY affect the overall climax of the game ? Almost never. Which is why for me, I got over it pretty quickly simply because choices in Mass effect 1 leading up to 2, was the journey and not really the ending. Same with mass effect 3, choices in you did in the previous game impacts how your campaign will be, but it doesn't matter much at the ending of the game. You can play mass effect 1 and 2 a million times with different choices, the only thing that really impacts, is who live and dies. The ending will be the same, regardless of what you do.
Choices mattered in ME2. Bioware promised that your choices would compound into 16 varied outcomes in ME3.
Developers promise a lot all the time, few live up to those promises. My comment still stands as it is, because what I stated is true. It really never affects the ending, and I think this is out of control, and it really makes gamers look bad.
I'll agree that some people are stepping over the line, but the disappointment with the ending is justified in my opinion. Personally I don't think it should be changed, maybe expanded, but that's really Bioware's rock to bare. The problem I see with the ending is not the outcome, but rather the lack of discernible variety and relation to past decisions (which was claimed would occur). On top of that where is the spectacular showpiece that should end a trilogy such as this? Where's the epic battle involving all the rallied species? As far as I can see it just fizzled out and made you figure things out for yourself, whether this was intentional only Bioware knows, but it seems to of been a risky move that didn't pay off. I never expected Shepard to survive, I just expected something bigger, especially when this was going to be the end of Shepard's story.