Capcom "felt Devil May Cry was a little stuck in its ways", according to Tameem Antoniades.
They're exactly right... You know what else will kill a series? Changing the main character.
Final Fantasy says hi.
That's MEANT to have different characters man, it's totally different than a series who's based on one single character and has been since its beginning. Sure DMC4 went with another character, but they still had the original Dante in it as he was supposed to be.
OK, how about Assassin's Creed 2? Sure, Desmond's still there but he's never been the focus. Or Halo: Reach? Or Black Ops? Make of DMC what you will, but there's no inherent reason a changed lead character should spell doom for a series. It's all about the execution.
diri, what you don't understand is that none of that games changed the personality of the main characters. All they did was switch them. DmC's Dante is like turning Master Chief into a loud mouthed, wise cracking wise guy like Dan from Street Fighter. Or turning Kratos into a happy go lucky woohoo-yelling idiot like Mario Or turning Nathan Drake into an emo androgynous teen like all final fantasy game characters. It just doesn't feel right.
@FinancialGamer A fast-paced gun/sword-based action game with Resident Evil's camera angles, set in a world that's equal parts Rocky Horror Show and Lovecraft, "doesn't feel right" - but here we are 11 years and 10 million plus sales later. New ideas have to start somewhere. Personally, I think the idea of a Kratos who isn't a deluded body-builder with anger management issues sounds terrific.
Having different characters in Assassins Creed is part of the story, seriously what kind of stupid argument is that? NT are just doing damage control because they know exactly what's going to happen when this releases, the franchise will either become average or it'll just die out and eventually be abandoned. "with Resident Evil's camera angles" WOW did you just classify third person camera angles as "resident Evil camera angles" LOL! So I guess there's First person, Second person and then Resident Evil camera angles LMAO!
@ xsteampro (Sigh) Yes, dear, I'm aware that Devil May Cry can be loosely defined as a third-person game, but the particulars of the camera-work (e.g. when framing interactive objects or text) recall Resident Evil. And as regards the Assassin's Creed comparison being "ridiculous" - give me one utterly incontrovertible plot-related reason you can't have a Devil May Cry game without Dante (not that this is a Devil May Cry game without Dante, exactly). The degree of bile and bad noise this so-called "travesty" has attracted makes me want to punch kittens. Hardcore gamers snivel about "iterative" design elsewhere, but when developers actually take risks (and there are definitely risks, I'll agree) everybody screams "blasphemy". It's like when taxpayers agitate for tax cuts, but can't stomach the idea of reduced public spending. We've had four Devil May Cry games in the previous style. Four. And you know what? There's absolutely no reason we won't see Devil May Cry games in that style again, once Ninja Theory's done rebooting. People need to relax.
"Personally, I think the idea of a Kratos who isn't a deluded body-builder with anger management issues sounds terrific." This shows that you are missing the point. If you don't like the way Kratos is currently, obviously you are going to think a happy go lucky Kratos sounds terrrrrrryyyyyyfffic!!! :D You know there are a lot of people that are clamoring of an FF7 remake? Well how do you think the fans would respond if SE were to change every personality of every character if they made the remake? Someone who isn't a die hard fan of FF7 might not give a hoot, but the people begging for the remake definitely do. In my opinion anyone that attacks DMC fans for not liking the direction of the DMC reboot isn't a huge DMC fan to begin with. Personally I'm not a fan of DMC so I'm actually don't mind the new approach of DMC, but I'm not going to pretend that I don't understand why people are upset. "The degree of bile and bad noise this so-called "travesty" has attracted makes me want to punch kittens. Hardcore gamers snivel about "iterative" design elsewhere, but when developers actually take risks (and there are definitely risks, I'll agree) everybody screams "blasphemy". It's like when taxpayers agitate for tax cuts, but can't stomach the idea of reduced public spending." If you want to take risks do it with a new IP lol. Why do it with an established franchise? It makes no sense IMO. Do you really think this game would be getting scrutiny had it been a new IP instead of a reboot? They should have made this game a spin-off at most instead of redoing the entire franchise. And it would take another reboot after the reboot to go back to that style... unless NT doesn't give a hoot about story.
Mario says hi.
Ninja Gaiden 3 says hi! Now that is a game created without the fans approval and see that metacritic score sitting at less than 60%... So "I'm not trying to design around what I think people will want. That's where you get into creative bankruptcy. That, more than anything, will kill a series." Will also bankrupt you... A middle ground please!
@dirigiblebill Assassins Creed: It's expected to have different characters after the first title explained what was going on with the whole animus and peering back into his ancestor past memories. Final Fantasy: A game that has stayed different from one another. Black Ops: Really? Call of duty takes place throughout different history. BTW Modern Warfare followed the same characters. Halo: never played anything after 2, but aren't they kind of based on the books???? IDK mybe it's the other way around. Devil May Cry is a series of FOUR TITLES. FOUR TITLES BASED AROUND DANTE (Of course DMC4 had Nero). If someone took Nathan Drake out of Uncharted the world would be ticked. When they changed Cole from Infamous 2 people were raging. BTW the character look isn't the only issue that people are having with the game. Lower FPS and the fact that they took DMC and rebooted it, when it didn't need a rebooting.
"This shows that you are missing the point. If you don't like the way Kratos is currently" I do like the way Kratos is currently. But that doesn't mean I don't welcome the thought of change too. "If you want to take risks do it with a new IP lol. Why do it with an established franchise?" Because the "established franchise" is sorely in need of a fresh direction? You'll never hear them admit it, but Devil May Cry 4 didn't sell nearly what Capcom wanted it to. "They should have made this game a spin-off at most instead of redoing the entire franchise." How does making a reboot mean "redoing the entire franchise"? Will every single copy of the original DMC erase itself once Ninja Theory's game hits shelves? "And it would take another reboot after the reboot to go back to that style..." Perhaps, but what does that matter? Aren't we quibbling over definitions here?
Man,Crapcom has been making some terrible decisions.... I still feel this was a poor choice on Capcom let ninja theory make Devil may cry game.
If I were a DMC fan I definitely would not buy this reboot after this statement. Obviously you shouldn't make a game 100% for the fans, but what they are currently doing is making a game *"PURELY"* for a different demographic which you shouldn't do either. I really wonder how NT and Capcom will feel if DMC bombs in sales after making bold statement after bold statement.
You know the crazy thing is they say they were alarmed by how Devil may Cry 4 was received. Well the fans were mad because they secretly tried rebooting with Nero, when all the fans wanted was a sequel with Dante. Then the copy and paste formula of Nero going one way and Dante going back and finishing the job was dumb. Make a Devil may Cry game that pertains to driving the story forward. Not prequels or reboots or trying to introduce new characters into the story so they can eventually reboot the story with that character. Make a sequel about Dante (Original Dante not Crazy hobo in a tank top Dante that was raised and tortured by demons) bring back Virgil, Sparda, and heck do something with Mundus and have a freaking remnant of him or something! Anything that drives the story forward, they haven't even tried since Devil May Cry 2, I say give it a shot that's all I ask for in a Devil may Cry game (Story Development) not this steaming pile of dung that is called DMC. NT sucks because they think that fans don't know what they are talking about and that is why they have such a bad rep with alot of fans and Crapcom..... Well we all know what their deal is and why people don't like them!
I'm surprised how disconnected execs at Capcom are. They received backslash with Nero in DMC4, they're receiving backslash with this nonsense. They're literally dropping the core fanbase 'cause they're too stupid to come up with something that will make fans happy with setting that will attract new people. Instead, they do this. One would say "I don't want to live on this planet anymore", but I'd rather see them being launched into the sun, 'cause if Earth would had hands, it'd facepalm.
Noteable points: 1) NT has already begun shifting the responsibilty to Crapcom in case it fails. 2) has indirectly stated it is for newcomers not original fans. 3) they are not competing with bayonetta combat mechanics since it isnt realistic enough and they want something more believable. 4) they are aiming at creating the best combat mechanics (yet ignoring Bayonetta) 5) misunderstood what Jaffe said about stories in games 6) creating the game for a western audience not the Japanese 7) making the game more movie like for the western audience 8) trying to make the best game according to what is best for them not the gamers, in which case why are you trying to convince us its good?! 9) dont care about sales as long as it is a creative success, sales flop is good enough for them. This game reaks of $hit and fail through and throughout. The living world story sounds boring compared to the story of Mundus or Virgil. The combat now sounds worse than it ever was and Tameem wont stop contradicting himself. What makes things even more screwed up is Crapcom the publisher and NT the dev are not on the same frigging page anymore. This seems to be getting messier with every instance Tameem opens his mouth :s
I think Devil May Cry should organize like Mass Effect fans did and clearly tell Capcom that we don't want this direction. And that it has been proved that Capcom franchises handed to Western developers sink Bionic Commando Dead Rising 2 (good but worse than the first) Resident Evil Operation Raccoon City And DmC will obviously be the next one. It's so messed up and worse than that is a coward game They're so afraid of Bayonetta quality that decided to run away from it with their tail between their legs. This alone make it look insignificant. The game is not ambitious, is just...shameful If people scared EA/Bioware we can scare Capcom enough.
I personally think Ninja Theory wants to pertain towards the Twilight fans too. Why do you think this new Dante looks so emo and somewhat resembles Edward Cullen? Oh wait. Thus, another reason why this future DmC is receiving negative comments.
@ omegaslayer: it's not up to the fans to decide the direction of any game. i'm so sick and tired of hearing gamers whine, and their bloated sense of entitlement. instead of crying like babies, speak with your wallet. that'll send a better message to the devs rather than acting like spoiled brats.
Messing a great and loved character kills the devs.
christ, if it's not ME3 gamers are whining about like little children, it's this nonsense... you've not seen any gameplay or other footage, nor have you even played the game, so saying that a change in the way the character looks "ruins" the series is a little silly.
There has been tons of gameplay footage
My Mom Said Hi.but then she went to the store
Especially if the main character looks like the game developer himself.
You know what will kill a videogame series? Changing it beyond all recognition.
These guys/girls say the wrong things and cross the line.....habitually. They're habitual line steppers....
Ever gonna learn to shut the f*ck up? Mannnn!!! You made one decent game this generation (Heavenly Sword) , one multi platform game that had potential but didn't live up to it (Enslaved) and now you have the balls to feel like you can do whatever you want and people will buy it? Please shut up, and develop the game and put your money where your mouth is. Cuz if the game looked decent, you wouldn't hear any complaints. DMC was my favorite series last generation , minus 2. I agree it needed a reboot, but not a complete makeover and screw-up like you guys are doing. A reboot doesn't need the main character design to be drastically changed, in order to realize its a reboot. Make subtle changes, but still have characteristics of the icon its portraying. Ninja Theory your cockiness will be your downfall, believe me.
From the article and quoted from Ninja Theory: "The decision as to whether DMC needed a reboot or not: it's irrelevant what my opinion is because that decision was Capcom's. They felt it needed something, which is why they not only decided to take a bold step and reinvent it, but to give it to a non-Japanese dev. "They had their reasons and that was our mandate. They wanted a reinvention - a reinterpretation - and that's what we went ahead and did." Capcom chose this and passed it on. There is nothing wrong with the 'designing games purely for fans will kill a series' infact it can be quite a true statement. They need fan input but relaly, they should just be going with their gut, which they are.
Charlie Murphy!!!! *pow* Cold Bloooded... :D
"Casual" gamers may be more of a marketable segment of the video game market audience now than in past gaming generations, but that doesn't mean it clouds and rules over the Hardcore segment. If the title statement from Ninja Theory were true, then how do you explain the continued proliferation of Metal Gear/Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, God of War, Castlevania, Street Fighter, and many others? All of which are hardly focused primarily on the "Casual" segment of the gaming market audience.
They're 100% right. Doesn't mean changing the main character so drasticly and his (already known) past is a good idea, though. Not to mention making a 60fps ACTION GAME into a 30fps "action game".
Sell outs, plain and simple. They hust run towards where they think the money is. Btw im not even a fan of this series but it seems everyone is ruining their games.
Yeah heaven forbid you have a well designed char. and world where he lives in with stories that connect to each other....no games should just let you run around with no reason at all killing everything you see. go away ninja theory nobody cares about you and your massive ego
you know hwat also hurts series? bad dev teams............... capcom handing series to the west, which have ALWAYS ruined them
what??!! so who u designing for?? for ur self?
That's what people need to do more. Design and make games the way THEY would wanna see them. Thats why people often get into creatives roles. Sames goes for music an stuff. Sure, not everyone does it for themselves or their own vision, they're just told to make something to make a quick buck.
Just when you do make radical changes to a well established game character making no considerations towards fans, actually being belligerent towards them to a degree, you have no right whatsoever to complain about low sales because you've alienated fans.
Amen Brother!!! Speaking the truth!
If consumers got their way all the time, games would be trash. Let the creative artists do the work please. You wouldn't ask a musician to make one type of song all the time would you? No, because then they wouldn't learn anything new for better or worse.
Video games and music are entirely different mediums. A series should never change to the point of being unrecognizable. If you wanna try something new, make a new IP or just make minor tweaks to the franchise in question to try and perfect it. Hell, I'm even fine with the evolution of a franchise when needed, but out and out discarding what was there and altering it so much even to the point of sacrificing the furious and fast gameplay? Yeah, that's an issue.
"just make minor tweaks to the franchise in question to try and perfect it." Yeah, and then realize that you're paying $60 every year for the same game. A mix-up in the formula is what people are scared of. If something they know so well starts to change, people start freaking and don't realize that the change could be for the better. You cannot change the fact that this game is coming out, so complaining won't help anyone. Don't rant on what you don't like and try to give suggestions on what they should improve. Without guidance, developers are free to do whatever they want and just telling them what you don't like only pushes them to try new things.
Most games aren't yearly franchises. Some changes are for the better. Resident Evil 4 was 1 such change though 5 fell on it's face by ditching the mood itself. This isn't a change. This is a new game with the DMC logo slapped on the front. Sort of like Lords of Shadow being just a game with Castlevania's named tacked to the title. I'm not complaining. I realize my voice won't be heard anyway and regularly state my opinions on titles on what needs to be worked on and what's great about it. However, we are free to voice out displeasure with a complete make over. The simple fact is Capcom isn't a company for listening to their fans anyway. If they did, we'd have a new Megaman Legends on the way instead of a fat Megaman in SxT.
" Sort of like Lords of Shadow being just a game with Castlevania's named tacked to the title.' That furthers my point. Many assumed that 3d castlevania games would never be up to par with its 2d versions and it proved most wrong. If fans had their way, they be playing yet another 2d version and the 3d version would have never existed. It's all about risks. Without it, there is no reward.
Erm...Lords of Shadow had mixed opinions from fans and wasn't the 1st 3D CV either. Lament of Innocence did fairly well for itself before. If you look at the story of Lords, it's the exact same problem we're facing here. Altering a franchise to the point of not even being recognizable. Regardless we're both out of bubbles now and I don't feel like carrying this on further anyway. Ciao.
True, I agree with your comment. Nintendo evolutionized LoZ: Twilight Princess graphically, but received a lot of mixed reviews from it. In result, Nintendo decided to stay back with the original classical graphics for LoZ Skyward Sword. Not only graphics, but the story as well. Twilight Princess story has got to be the most depressing and darkest stories yet, but it too got some mixed reviews from fans. I personally favored these new changes from Twilight Princess but the majority of the fans disparaged it. It's good to see something new once in a while.
Im sorry but id have to side with sloth on this one. In the case of music if a band or group wants to do something different they usually do side projects/bands. This also goes with comic books to movie translations. The world look and story is usually rebooted keeping core elements to distinguish the two. a great example is the spider man movies or batman movies. with batman we still had a bruce wayne, we still had batman with his cape and cowl and bat symbol on his chest and the iconic villians like two face and the joker still had a major semblance to their comic book roots. The only major thing tinkered with was story. And thats why with DmC fans are getting angry. If they altered the look of the joker or batman drastically like they are doing with DmC there would be an uproar. hell even if it was just the name of the main character i.e. they made some guy named jack batman instead of bruce wayne it just wouldnt feel right.
Thats just the wrong statement!Just take a look on the Shit Team Ninja Made with Ninja Gaiden 3 by not following the path of the mentor and neglecting all the feedback NG hardcore fans gave them during the game production.For me this has nothing to do with changing the character aspect in DMC reboot i actually like the way things are going (its a reboot that dont belong in the true cannon vein of DMC!) the game looks good from the videos i seen im more worried about the framerate fluctuation the game will have by running at 30fps and the enemy AI that seems very off then the look of a character,but developers should not ever desrespect fans opinians.
All the NG3 guys had to do was have plenty of weapons available. Which they didn't do. Worse, because they were trying to step out of Itagaki's shadow, they got it into their heads to focus on Ryu more as a remorseless, cursed, killer. Never mind that in games prior when he wasn't killing demons he was killing other remorseless killers.
People really need to just get over this. The death threats was just appauling. Really? Does a game character mean that much to you? It's not even an multi-layered character that one can relate to that sends you on an emotional journey of self disovery or whatever people feel they need from games these days. It's a guy with a sword that kills demons. Lets look at the series as whole, shall we? 2 good games, one meh and one crap. The last, 4 (meh) wasn't great. If it offends you that much, don't buy the new one and know that if Capcom were at the helm you'd simply get another mediocre DMC game cause, really, what have they done this gen that has been great. Your choices were either let the series be worked on from a fresh perspective or let it get done half assed by a developer that doesn't really care anymore.
Yeah, but COMPLETELY ignoring fans isn't the way to go either. There needs to be a healthy in-between.
stfu ninja theory...this is the same lazy untalented developers who were bashing the ps3 because it was to hard to develop for
I like how people keep slammin' Ninja Theory when it all came from Capcom's own mouth that they wanted to change THEIR own game. Ninja theory is gonna do their damnedest to make this as awesome a game they could make it.Regardless if this was DMC or not.
that's too easy . Capcom approved and told them to drastically make changes , but between that decision and that there were billions od other possible designs and changes . And NT isnt trying to sound as if if was actually force on them , they revels in their own changes and dont miss an opportunity to trash the previous dmc titles . So if i were you , i'd ditch than angle of defense
this guy didn't really say that did he? It's funny when companies try to "appeal to a wider audience" and end up alienating everyone. I'm sure I could name a few. This is not hollywood, business majors shouldn't make game design decisions in many cases, and the fans were the people that allowed you to make your "sequel" in the first place.
@disagree: Shouldn't you be working on your hair Tameem? BTW, i think he made it perfectly clear in the article that they were told to make the changes by capcom.
Reminds me of the time they replaced Solid Snake (Certified badass) with Raiden (Not a badass)... Or the Prince from Prince of Persia games (Also quite a badass) with the emo prince (Again, not a badass!) Bottom line is that trying to replace a badass likeable character that everyone still loves with a whiny/emo/fake punk with the personality of a pin and the voice of a 13 year old girl when you know it's going to piss off your entire fanbase because those fans tell you repeatedly is a BAD IDEA! Get that through your heads if you want to...oh I don't know...sell some games Ninja Theory?
Hey or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles with Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles! Another classic being raped, although not a video game exactly but still has iconic characters but getting a "Reboot" Im tired of the Reboot crap! In video games and in movies, come up with some fresh ideas!
It's kind of sad to see how arrogant NT is still being after all the failure they've had. I'm especially offended that Antoniades doesn't understand how fans MAKE the game successful. Not listening to them when the series has had a, you know, loyal fanbase for how long? is practically condemning. I've never sincerely wished failure on a game in my life, but I think I might have to wish for failure of this game, just so Capcom gets the message that we, the fans, want DMC, not...whatever this is.
well i guess the non-fans are gonna have a SSStylish time
Go ask the guys who made Ninja Gaiden 3 if that was a good idea.
I wanna know what NT / Tameem reaction when 'their' DmC got crap score like NG 3 / Opt Raccoon City :P
There is nothing wrong with adding changes to a series but at its core, said game should be tailored towards the fans, aka, the people who made the series successful enough to warrant a remake.
For a fairly two dimensional plain-as-white-bread main character you would think fans would appreciate some character backstory to DMC.
YOu folks love to beat that dead horse , but we have yet to see one iota of background that hint a some deep backstory . All we've seen so far are the gameplay sequences and short cgis . Hell his first appeareance is trying and failing at posing , while smoking a cigarette . What an astonishing backstory and deep plot indeed so far -_- You guys are just relying on NT's reputation of delivery good stories , just like we rely on their reputation of delivering subpar and mediocre gameplay .
If you can point out the two times you hilariously destroyed your own point in that post I'll give you a gold star.
Go to hell Ninja Theory
Hey if anyone knows about "killing series" its these idiots : Enslave says HI!