Let's stop giving a shit what Roger Ebert says about video games, and art, OK?
He's a pulitzer winner, one of the best writers in any printed and web media, and one of the smartest, most well-spoken men in the world of entertainment. He's smarter than any writer in the videogame media. And yet, self-entitled kiddies whine about his (solid, well-written, reasonable) opinions. Newsflash: not everything needs to be art. Deal with it.
He also wrote Beyond the Valley of the Dolls. I was confused that people took what he said about games to the degree they did from that alone.
Ebert is a bitter old man who time has passed by. I don't know how anyone can say videogames aren't art. Most modern videogames require artistic design, sound effects, a well-written story, many have a deep plot, and voice-acting (with more and more being done by professional actors, BTW). Game writers/designers try to create an immersive experience, just as movie writers do. There is no debate, videogames ARE art, period. I've seen some movies that I would call "soul-deadening" too, I think we all have.
That people ran with his generally offered comment when it should have been taken as the uneducated opinion of someone who is actually educated and opinionated - in certain areas - is really other people's fault. I do know, bringing up the big argument of the day, is that if games were art then ME3 would more than it is, an interactive visual novelization of a sci-fi story, rather than a copy of sci-fi movie.
Just like crXss said, I have no idea who this guy is. This is the first time I heard about him. But honestly, I do not care what he is saying about video games. I don't care what anyone sais about vide games to be honest.
Ebert was correct, most games aren't art, but a very few pieces are. Most movies are art, but a very few aren't.
Like most critics, (including those from video games: Yahtzee, Sterling, Bob Chipman) Ebert is just very heavily opinionated. Yes, he's had his ups and downs in his career, and yes he can be considered to possess a thoughtful and analytical mind. However, he can provide no more insight to interactive media than he can effectively comment on parallel lyric structure in rap music. It doesn't have to do with age or bitterness. Well, maybe age, but mostly just a perceived sense of superiority for a medium he's spent his entire life with. Imagine if Wagner was alive today. Aside from his intense anti-semitism, he'd be bitching that nothing besides opera could be considered art.
Gamers need to stop thinking VGames = Movies, the gaming industry could be 100k times bigger than the Film industry, but it could never reach the status of Films and never be considered a form of art Games follow the money, for films it's the same, but at least you can see loads of different types of genres in films these days aside from the big movies, in gaming, from the NES to PS1 days was all about platforming, last gen reached the peak with s***loads of genres to choose, but sandbox, arcade racing, sims and sports dominated, this gen is all about shooters, when shooters lose its appeal, something will replace it again and cycle will go on The same happens to movies all the time, an example are the movies based on comic-heroes, but that didn't stop other kind of movies reach success, CGI movies are there as well, but that didn't kill other movie genres, action, drama, sci-fi, you name it, are all there and are not replaced completely like the video game industry replace their franchises for the hot thing of the moment
Gaming is entertainment, not art. There is no need for games to be an art form, and there is no need for the industry to aspire in that direction.
Gaming is entertainment AND art. As are movies and music.
Well said, Frankfurt. We all have opinions on what can be defined as "art", and Ebert's claim was actually supported by a well-framed argument. You might say "He's a ****ing film critic!", but that doesn't mean he's unaware of the average release.
he knows about movies. he knows NOTHING about games. http://n4g.com/news/671888/...
No one cares what you have to say Frankfurt, thats why you're a 1 bubble troll. I had never heard of this guy before, who cares if he won some prizes? People like us gamers dont give a rats azz about his opinions. I'm sure Sakaguchi, Kojima or other industry leading game developpers have written better stories then this random guy.
Wearing your medal of ignorance proudly eh?
He may write about movies, but that doesn't mean he should be respected for writing about them. He said that Home Alone 3 was the best Home Alone movie. Period. HOW can you respect a human being who says that? Pulitzer prize or not, he's a joke. He always has been.
You're picking one comment from him and using it to discredit him entirely. Einstein made some pretty foolish remarks about Quantum Mechanics, yet are you going to use that to negate all of his comments on Physics? As Frankfurt said, the man has credentials, and he certainly should be respected for the field he is in. Him having an opinion on movies that you don't agree with doesn't suddenly make him a 'joke'. His opinions on games, on the other hand, don't deserve much attention because gaming isn't his field.
Credentials? What credentials? I would LOVE to see credentials that show me I should respect his opinion on films. What makes him a joke is that nobody who enjoys films or even considers themselves a film enthusiast respects his opinion. They haven't for years; at least not since Siskel died. Or would you like me to bring up his review of The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull?
"Credentials"? lol. He wrote some bad movies and critiqued others. He has almost no business critiquing movies, let alone games.
Thank you, SilentNegotiator! That's what I try to tell people all the time.
Yeah, let's face it. Siskel is the one we cared about. I haven't ever given a single piece of fur on a rat's ass about Ebert and I'm sure a decent amount of others haven't either. He can't make movies, he can't critique movies, and he CERTAINLY can't critique games. This man still thinks Mario and TMNT (NES days, of course) when he thinks of video games. Seriously. He just blows.
Clicking the agree button wasn't enough, so I would like to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly. Funny that every 14 year old seems to be an expert in art these days. Anybody who fashions in interest in art, go to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy and research the topic for a year or two.
Ebert has earned people's attention when it comes to movies. but when it comes to video games? i couldn't care less what he has to say.
@Frankfurt... Ebert is entitled to his opinion, I agree, but I have to say that there are some games that easily pass as works of art and for such a "smart, well-spoken man of the world" to not acknowledge that is extremely narrow-minded. Let's face facts.... he is from a time and place where games were not as influential in society as they are today and really has no right or reason to comment on the subject. Stick to what you know....Movies are his forte....he is essentially a complete moron when it comes to the realm of games and the industry and just needs to be silent on the matter.
If games aren't art, then maybe art isn't art either
And apparently he gave Tree of Life a perfect score. Everybody I know who's watched the film says it's rubbish: and that includes the pretentious movie loving arty types. People get it wrong. It's up to you to decided if somenoe's opinion matters to you or not. He might be a brilliant writer and intellectual but that doesn't make him right about everything. Infact, being wrong makes him human :) (and subsequently, believing his opinion is always right also makes him human...am I right?)
You should just go with the groupthink and stop being intelligent if you ever want alot of bubble votes, Frankfurt. Truth hurts. Video games are disposable consumer entertainment. They are not art. Go to an art gallery - when was the last time any you guys been to a local art gallery? Vast majority of big name games are just derivative works based on movies. And mass effect three is not science fiction, it is a juvenile action adventure in a futuristic setting. Complete with tits for the adult children to suckle on.
The Smithsonian now considers video games an art form, the debate is over.
100% agree. End of line.
Boom! http://americanart.si.edu/e... and a second Boom! http://www.movingimage.us/v... nuff said.
Good job, good job indeed. Have a like and a bubble lol
People are still whining about this? I have great respect for Roger Ebert and his movie reviews. As the previous gentleman stated the man has serious credentials. However, he does NOT play video games. So why and hell should anyone care about his opinion on them. He does not decide what is art and what is not, it's an opinion he has. I have no doubts that games are an art form. There's a ton of artisitic talent that goes in to many of todays games. So lets move on shall we.
I always listen to a opinion if it makes sense and on topic. Otherwise its whatever plus its sometimes good to listen to outsiders opinion.
Why would you listen to his opinion on movie reviews?!? Seriously. Why?!?
I have never paid any attention to him to begin with so I am good
This hack spoils pretty big parts of movies in his reviews.
everyones entitled to their own opinions. I frankly believe video games destroy and trump the "movie" experience. dont get me wrong I love a good film. but some games are much much more
This is dumb. Tell people to ignore someone. You're the one making a big deal over him then. I haven't thought about Roger Ebert for months. Did he say something recently about games? I haven't heard anything. Now this dumb article reminded me. Stupid Kotaku.
I like what Tom Bissell had to say about this stuff: "Those who do not believe video games are or ever will be art deserve nothing more goading or indulgent than a smile." Ebert is uninformed, and he's out of his element. You could pick apart his arguments against games almost casually, but there really isn't any reason to give him the time of day.
You guys do realize that he once said Home Alone 3 was the best in the series and gave Garfield two thumbs up, correct?
Okay, folks. You disagree with him. Now you have to support your counter-argument with proof, or you're more full of hot air than you accuse him of being.
This was posted further up, seems to be a pretty good counter argument against the opinion of someone clearly out of his area of expertise. Then you have just plain old common sense to tell you he's just plain wrong in his opinion. People are absolutely entitled to opinions but it doesn't mean they're right. http://americanart.si.edu/e...
Okay, looks like you managed something. But the minute someone submits a FPS, I'm disregarding this.
As far as I'm concerned he can sit on both of his thumbs. Video games are art and anyone who thinks differently has no right commenting on our culture.
The definition of art: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance" Works produced by such skill and imagination. If videogames don't fall under that category then there is no such thing as art. U don't even need a textbook definition. I'm pretty sure if u Wrote your own definition of art, videogames would fall under it too.
I've been ignoring him for more than a decade. I never even listen to what he says about movies.
I'll be ignoring Kotaku before I do with him.
Has Roger Ebert play Journey yet?
Never heard of him so it means I'm following Kotaku's request. Dammit.
Add Patcher to the ignore list as well.
Video games and porn should be banned.
and you should be banned from this site.
If he wants to sit there and claim that Heavy Rain, or any other similar calibre game, evokes no emotion in himself, he's free to do so, yet it does not give him the right to say it's not art to other people. Yeah, he can go ahead and say that, yet only if he wants to look like an idiot and want people to wish he got throat cancer again.
I love when people say, "It's just his opinion; he's entitled to it. Why make such a big deal out of it?" No, actually, I hate that. When someone, particularly celebrities or politicians, say something, people listen. Even if it's clear to US that the guy has no clue what he's talking about, lots more people DON'T know that. They know Ebert is a big film critic. And that position in the the public consciousness gives his opinion weight. His opinion SHOULDN'T have weight, but it does. And us ignoring that won't fix his ignorant damaging of the industry.
I won't ignore him just because it pisses you off.
This is still an issue? Lol wow...
There was a time when Movies were seen as trash with no artistic merit, not all artistic entertainment can be classed as art but if some films and music are seen as art then so can some 'video games' this old guy basically has no idea about gaming and as such is not qualified to talk about the genre.
I can consider the crap I just took, art. If ny next-door neighbor doesn't think it's art, well fuuuuuuuck him. Art is in the eye of the beholder.
I'm suprised people care nobodies opinion should matter this much he's not your father he can't deny you anything it's your money you buy what you want and enjoy it his opinion is just that at the end of the day
Are u sure it was so bad because that 100 hours was spent in the tutorial. I mean, really, how far do u think he made it. It had to have made him angry at least once.
I did not know who he was until just now.
Make this guy play Journey!
Ignore his opinion of video games???? I don't give $$$$ about his opinion of movies.
Never heard of him.
thought he was dead oh well if you dont watch it dont review it if you dont play games dont critique them just like how they gave jim carrey movies all bad reviews just cause they didnt like him thats bullshit dont care how many awards you won or how important you or your fans think you are.
Roger Ebert has as much credit on video games as jack Thompson does on violent video games make kids violent. Roger Ebert I could care less for since he pretty much hates on every movie and hardly writes something good about a movie and usually movie that no one likes.