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Epic: 'If next-gen consoles aren't bleeding edge, Apple will beat them'

Meeting with Epic's always well-spoken VP Mark Rein at GDC this week, CVG highlighted the growing concern among gamers that next-gen consoles could turn out to be technically underwhelming - especially with Wii U's reportedly modest specs and the next Xbox rumoured to be utilising a year-old graphics card.

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Shok1600d ago

Didn't know Epic was this stupid.

gypsygib1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

I'm happy Epic is pushing Sony, MS and (hopefully) Nintendo to make next-gen consoles as powerful as possible. Gamers win by having the corps subsidize our purchase.

Remember, if it wasn't for Epic, 360 would have likely failed this gen right after the RROD fiasco, as every PS3 game would have looked and ran noticeably better.

dp2774071600d ago

Im thinking he means Gears of War came out early enough to make people want a 360 even with the risk of rrod or we could let him tell us.

SuperLupe1600d ago

Yep next gen kicked off with Gears. RROD or not you had to be a part of it.

gypsygib1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

@ dp277407 & SuperLupe

I'm talking bout how Epic convinced MS to make 360 more powerful by upping the RAM from 256 to 512...because Gears didn't look particularly next-gen at 256.

The whole point of the article is that Epic is trying to convince Console makers to up the power by showing them what can be done with high specs (Smaritan Demo), and I'm saying that's good because it allowed or greatly contributed to 360 being where it is today.

If 360 was noticeably less powerful and relied on multiplats as much as it does, PS3 would have dominated again = less competition to push the envelope = gamers lose.

sikbeta1600d ago

@gypsygib

No, it's not, Epic is riding Apple's d*** because they want to license the f*** out of their Engines and put them everywhere, they don't care if the games on I-devices are s*** or not, as long as they can make money from the UE, bleeding edge tech on new consoles will make more devs go out of business, raise prices and less variety of games, it's not working, PS1 and PS2 werent successful for being the most powerful consoles, same with the wii

Also, those who are expecting a massive bump in HW like we saw this gen are delusional, that's what made Sony from being number 1, to being in last place and with no chance to catch up against the competition

Face it, people want flashy stuff with colored s****, that's why Apple is so big, that's why kinect is so succesful, it has nothing to do with Specs or HW, casuals want gimmicks and what's hot at the moment, nothing else

Machioto1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

@sikbeta What you said reminded me of this.

Can someone tell me power wise how the ipad 3 stacks up compared to ps vita,I know the ipad has a higher res screen but two less cpu cores and the same amount of GPUs but they are not based on the rumored powervr series 6.

ChrisW1600d ago

However, with Sony and MS using current AMD (6000 series?) graphics technology... by the time their next-gen consoles are released, they will already be a generation or two late in graphics.

So if Apple takes that into consideration, they'll have the definite advantage.

SilentNegotiator1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

If they try to make them "bleeding edge", Apple will ABSOLUTELY beat them. Was the Wii "bleeding edge" in power? Was the ps2? Nope, but they WERE the most successful consoles of all time.

Gamers aren't going to "jump ship" to a buttonless tablet.

"especially with....the next Xbox rumoured to be utilising a year-old graphics card"
-
Uhhh, what do they expect? Graphics Cards from the future? Consoles have "outdated" cards out of the gate. That's just the way that it is. They have to be marketably affordable. It's that simple. It's quite sad to see people blubber about even 5 year old consoles having old cards; do you want to buy new hardware every, what, 3 years, then?

"The "Next gen" consoles will already be outdated when they release because AMD/Nvidia will have a slightly more powerful series of card out...MEH MEH MEH MEH MEEEEH"

Epic only cares because they care about how THEIR games sell on the consoles, and the more flash, the better for them. The big three, however, actually have to worry about hardware sales and more than one token game series like Gears selling.

Kos-Mos1600d ago

Good graphics do NOT make a game good tiny.

LeShin1600d ago

@silentnegotiator wish I could get you a drink for talking so much sense, but a bubble will have to do :-)

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it....touchscreen controls just don't work for most games! I have a really good smartphone and I've bought ONE game in a 6 month period.

....and don't get me started on how much an Ipad costs compared to a console! Buying a ipad strictly for gaming just seems like a very stupid idea

debian_zac1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

@SilentNegotiator

if i can buy ram at the consumer rate of ~50 for 8GBs of it, than for each GB of ram I'm paying ~6.75 USD.

Now all i'm saying is that 2GB isn't gonna cause consoles prices to sky rocket because for each system they are only investing 12.50 USD at the consumer rate. Which current systems only have 512MB of ram so thats increasing the available ram on the system by x4 the amount without breaking the bank. NO way in hell could M$ or Sony find a way to justify that 2 GBs for more ram would cause the systems price to increase by 100 or 200 USD. Now the only thing really holding back consoles would be the Bus systems on the MBs and hopefully M$ doesn't do what they did this gen are try to cut costs with cheaper and poorer quality parts.

Source of prices : http://www.newegg.com/Store...

All i'm saying is the systems have decent processing power, albet weak but sufficient GPUs. But the problem is the lack for ram to store textures, general game data, models.

Anon19741600d ago

@SuperLupe "Yep next gen kicked off with Gears."
Exactly. I remember that awe I felt when Gears game out. This was next gen, I said. This raises the bar. I expected to see the bar raised from that point on. But it didn't happen. At least not on that console. On another console, I saw the graphical bar raised again and again.

Not every developer can push the hardware, otherwise every game would look like Gears or Uncharted or Battlefield or the Witcher. That's why next gen, it doesn't matter what the specs are. We aren't going to see a graphical revolution overnight. If it were that easy, we would have seen it already.

@SilentNegotiator "Gamers aren't going to "jump ship" to a buttonless tablet."
I wouldn't discount the touch screen so soon. Obviously Nintendo thinks there's something there, and you can't deny that it's much more precise to touch the screen exactly where you want as opposed to using a thumbstick. A touchscreen used with buttons would bring the precision of a mouse with the buttons of a controller. Any PC gamer will tell you how limiting a controller is compared to mouse input - and as a developer myself I can tell you, for some games the touchscreen interface will let you do far more things than a controller. It's not for every game, but to simply write it off as "gamers need buttons"...that's not always the case.

Dude4201600d ago

"Exactly. I remember that awe I felt when Gears game out. This was next gen, I said. This raises the bar. I expected to see the bar raised from that point on. But it didn't happen. At least not on that console. On another console, I saw the graphical bar raised again and again."

Wow, who cares, even if the PS3 apparently raised the bar, that didn't stop the Xbox from getting better looking games. There's a huge difference between Gears 1 and 3. Forza 4's graphics were vastly improved and there seems to be a pretty significant difference between Halo Reach and 4, but we'll see.

The point is, the Xbox still has juice left in it and some devs do their best to ensure that there's a high quality in the visuals. This is a result of competition. Even though the PS3 can produce amazing looking console games, I was amazed that the Xbox can still improve as well.

inveni01600d ago

The iPad will not take over handheld gaming. That's like saying that Macs will take over PC gaming. It's not happening. I will be buying an iPad 3, but only because I'm a software developer, and so I need to have one for work. Will I play games on it? Sure. But it won't replace my PS3, let alone my PS4, and definitely not my PC (preferred multi-plat of choice).

Epic has an interest in as many platforms as possible. It makes their engine look really great when you can use it to develop every platform in parallel. Just because their Epic doesn't mean they're not blowing smoke.

Perjoss1600d ago

Even the mention of Apple or Wii when talking about bleeding edge gaming is quite silly. Apple and Nintendo devices are not aimed at gamers at all. YES there is the odd hardcore title on the Wii but they make up about 5% of its library.

You only have to look at sales charts to see that stuff like Wii Sports and Wii Fit ridiculously outsell stuff like Resident Evil and Xenoblade Chronicles.

pangitkqb1600d ago

I enjoy the bleeding edge of technology. It's expensive, it requires many sacrifices to be made, but the experiences are incredible. I'll never forget the first time I put Oblivion on my PS3 after years of playing on my PS2. It was mind blowing.

And games have only gotten better since then.

MysticStrummer1599d ago (Edited 1599d ago )

"Yep next gen kicked off with Gears. RROD or not you had to be a part of it."

Not me. I knew I wanted a PS3 but thought Gears might make me want a 360 also. That didn't happen. It's not a bad game by any means, but it didn't make me regret waiting to jump into the next generation.

OT - No. No they won't. Apple makes good products, and games made for smart phones and other touchscreen devices have their place, but nothing they have beats what I get from my PS3.

F7U121599d ago (Edited 1599d ago )

And the proof of what he's saying is sitting right here next to me, it's my gaming PC. A console just couldn't offer me the experience that I was looking for. This is the experience that I was looking for and it's only going to get better when nextgen hits.

http://img689.imageshack.us...

ikkokucrisis1599d ago

I don't know if it's good to side with Apple Mark,

Apple releases a new product every year and Epic based console/PC games already take 2+ years to make so...

SilentNegotiator1599d ago

"@SilentNegotiator "Gamers aren't going to "jump ship" to a buttonless tablet."
I wouldn't discount the touch screen so soon. Obviously Nintendo thinks "

Nope, nuh-uh, stop, halt, freeze, hail....

What part of "buttonless" do you not understand?

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 1599d ago
Angainor71600d ago

you are the stupid my friend... you know the things better than the company that created the Unreal Engine? for christ's sake... go to sleep...

MeridianHope1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

I'm a big Apple fan (had a Mac since the 80s, iPods, iPhones, picking up an iPad soon), and even I think it's a little crazy to say Apple will beat next-gen consoles.

Why? Because Apple (as far as we know) isn't making a console. As much as I think Apple and the Mac and the iPad are awesome, I do not for one second think they are viable replacements for a console or gaming PC.

The only thing I think the iPhone / iPad *are* viable replacements for would be handheld game devices (like the DS or PSP/Vita), but that all depends on the type of mobile gamer you are. The DS or PSP/Vita are still definitely going to have their market because they will be capable of gaming functions the iDevices simply can't match - the Vita especially.

Until Apple unveils a console of their own (one that's not a joke like the ill-fated Pippin was), this is a nonsense statement. I think the iPad and other iDevices are great, but they simply do not compete with consoles in any significant way.

TheGamingArt1600d ago

I couldn't agree more with MeridianHope

dredgewalker1600d ago

@Meridian

I agree with everything that you've said. Even if Apple decides to make a console you can be sure to pay premium prices for the peripherals and accessories for their console since they will never allow 3rd party manufacturers. I also think that it will be pirated easily seeing how many jailbroken ipads/iphones are out there.

FrankDrebin1600d ago

If you don't think Epic is making a point here then you are lacking some commonsense and intelligence. Sorry but true.

Maybe some of you don't realize it but the latest iPad (3, hd, whatever you want to call it) has more memory that the 360 and the Ps3. The graphics capabilities are very close to those of the consoles. With the rate that Apple releases updates it wouldn't take long for Apple to catch up and possibly surpass them. It only makes sense if you understand specs and stats.

Now listen, I'm not saying that Apple products are the best gaming machines on the planet. I'm not saying that at all. I have iPads and all that stuff and rarely play games on them. It isn't my personal cup of tea.

One thing to remember is this, EPIC knows the market. They know technology. They know it a heck of a lot better than you! Give them some credit!

MeridianHope1600d ago

If the point is "the iPad tech will surpass that of next-gen consoles unless they are bleeding edge" then yeah, ok sure... But saying "if next-gen consoles aren't bleeding edge, Apple will beat them" is kind of dumb. That's like saying "if next-gen consoles don't do the dishes, the Whirlpool Gold Series dishwasher will beat them" - it doesn't matter.

If the iPad tech is better than next-gen consoles, does that mean a significant number of people will abandon consoles and start playing exclusively on their iPads? No. Absolutely not. Why? Because even if the iPad tech is better, the *experience* will be better on the consoles because they're designed primarily for that purpose and have the inputs for it, the iPad doesn't and Apple has shown no signs of changing in that regard.

jeeves861600d ago

Specs don't mean anything. People who tout Apple over Android have long said this - Apps and games make the machine, as well as the ease of use. Or if you're into that sort of thing, customization.

If Apple were to allow a bluetooth controller to be paired up with their devices, then I could see the next gen consoles taking a hit. As it stands, I can't see the market for dedicated gaming consoles dying down anytime soon.

FrankDrebin1600d ago

Actually specs do mean a lot. Since you don't think so it only shows how much you know! haha Good try Jeeves86

HunterRose1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

Frank- If you think specs are the end all be all of a devices potential, then it shows how little you know.

The original Xbox had better specs than any other console at the time. And which console won that particular generation? Could it be the PS2, since it's still selling consoles today (which is 5 years after the Xbox was discontinued)?

And just so you know, having a holier-than-thou attitude when you're obviously wrong makes it worse.

MeridianHope1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

@jeeves86

Apple already "allows" bluetooth controllers to be paired with the iDevices - but because they don't sell any themselves or bundle them, it's unlikely to gain enough momentum to topple the console market (and arguably wouldn't even if it *were* bundled).

The iPad is great, it's more than enough for the casual gamer or even the serious gamer that has another dedicated gaming console or PC. But is it positioned to be a serious gamers primary gaming device? Absolutely not.

Anyhow, just for your edification, here's a couple links to info about OnLive supporting bluetooth controllers on the iPad for gaming with the OnLive service. Very impressive looking stuff, but again, as much as I like the iPad, if I were really going to do something like this I'd prefer it on my big screen TV, not a 10" iPad screen, no matter how much better resolution it may have.

http://www.macrumors.com/20...

http://www.onlive.com/corpo...

FrankDrebin1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

@HunterRose

Whoa now, who said specs are the end all? I certainly didn't. Assuming makes an A$$ out of U and Me.

Kids these days...think before they speak. Gah!

Also, sorry if I make you feel inferior! :(

HunterRose1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

No, you're right. You didn't say that specs were everything, and they do mean something. And to be honest, I vented other frustrations on you, so... sorry about that. And your attitude isn't snotty or anything like that... so a double apology.

The point I was hoping to make before I typed my response and ended up venting is simply that specs are lower on the list of what sells video game consoles, the Wii and PS2 being prime examples of this.

And we all know the iPad is going to sell more than any console anyway, regardless of the specs. It just won't be because people want to play games on it, it's because people buy Apple products to say they own an Apple product.

thewhoopimen1600d ago

@MeridianHope: You do know you can not only hook up bluetooth controllers to iPads, you can also AirPlay the game on any flatscreen TV right? Basically the iPad3 is already a superior version of the WiiU in specs/capabilities. It's just a matter now whether Apple wants to support Gamedevelopers and launch a marketing campaign.

OpenGL1600d ago

The iPad 3 is less powerful than the PSP Vita, which itself is still considerably less powerful than the PS3 or 360. Apple hasn't said which GPU the iPad 3 is using but they said it's 2x as powerful as the iPad 2 graphically, and the iPad 2 used the PowerVR SGX543MP2, so it seems pretty clear the iPad 3 is using the SGX543MP4. While technically the same as what's in the PSP Vita, the Vita's version is the SGX543MP4+ with the + indicating it has 128MB of dedicated video memory, a significant advantage for 3D rendering.

I do agree though in another year or two the iPad could reach the power of current gen consoles, but there's nothing stopping Microsoft or Sony from releasing a new console that widens the gap again.

MysticStrummer1599d ago

Devices with decent tech at the right price usually win over devices with the best tech at premium prices. It has always been thus, and thus it will always be.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 1599d ago
StraightPath1600d ago

Ipad 3 will do seriously damage to the ps vita which is already suffering and struggling.

TheGamingArt1600d ago

Suffering and struggling...... and serious damage? You my friend are a troll.

kmanmx1600d ago

Three words: No physical buttons

FrankDrebin1600d ago

Agreed! If you think that is a trolling remark then you have no clue how the industry works and the current sales of each of these devices.

pain777pas1600d ago

Gameboy color is a better gaming device than the ipad.

WitWolfy1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

Lets say it does HYPOTHETICALLY! Who's gonna pay $800+ for a device that isnt even made for THAT type of gaming in mind?

WitWolfy1600d ago

Lets say it does HYPOTHETICALLY! Who's gonna pay $800+ for a device that isnt even made for gaming in mind?

GribbleGrunger1600d ago

i absolutely LOVE my Vita, but if it didn't have buttons and two analogue sticks, there's no way i would have bought it.

palaeomerus1599d ago

iPad 3 costs $400-$800.

Vita costs $250-$350.

I don't think they are in the same market.

Kindle Fire and Nook Tablet are more in the same price range as Vita and stuff like the Samsung Play 5, the very low end galaxy android tablets, and the iPod touch.

MysticStrummer1599d ago

Those two things aren't even part of the same market. You might as well claim that the sales of an SUV will impact the sales of a sports car.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 1599d ago
Jamzluminati1600d ago

No Epic is correct. The Samsung Galaxy SIII & III, iPhone 5, iPad 3, and The Asus Transformer Prime are already stronger than the current gen systems as they are running on either dual core or quad core(III, iPad 3, Prime, and soon to be the iPhone 5.) And they're being released every year so. By the time you know it they will have 6 core processors like my desktop.

Wtf a pad as powerful as my beastly desktop.

tiffac0081600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

Of course those devices should be more powerful. Your talking about 5-6yr old consoles to devices with the current tech in them.

Besides its already been proven that the console industry is not won by how powerful your console is but by how well your service and software line up is.

The console makers must balance power and price. Not everyone can afford to sell their devices at a premium without any backlash, especially not in the console industry.

badz1491600d ago

last time I checked, Samsung sells more phone than Apple and even mid range smartphones are having more RAM than both 360 and PS3! have we seen any game convincing enough for people to ditch consoles and move to mobile gaming instead? as far as I'm concerned, there's NONE! as long as consoles stay true to true gaming, not the casual 99c CRAP, consoles are here to stay!

Apple can still continue making money like it is! hell they even worth $340b at the moment but do they manage to stop dedicated gaming platforms to sell? NO! less people playing CoD nowadays? NO! so...seriously Epic, go to hell with THAT statement!

thewhoopimen1600d ago

because if Samsung sells more phones than Apple, Apple generates more profit from phone sales than ALL smart phone companies combined. If Apple is making inroads into media entertainment and the livingroom, wouldn't you as a competitor be worried? it's just a matter of time they might look into gaming as a new revenue stream.

Cosmo8111600d ago

You have a convincing argument.

JsonHenry1600d ago

With the $$$ that Apple has I am surprised they have not tried something more than AppleTV/iOS devices to get into peoples homes. Right now they could subsidize the hell out of a powerful console/media extender and beat the competition into the ground if they played their cards right.

However, me being an "apple hater" I do not want to see that happen. But if any company is poised to do such a thing it is them. Right now. Why they still have the cash to do it.

catguykyou1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

I guess people don't read articles. Epic didn't say Apple would beat consoles if they weren't bleeding edge.
"This is why we did Samaritan and why we're doing a really high-end demo in the room here. We really are pushing these guys, because if they don't, Apple will go right past them."
He is referring to tech. He means if the next consoles don't push hardware specs, other companies that don't even make gaming their number one priority will surpass them in hardware capabilities. We are already seeing the Ipad (a portable machine not dedicated to gaming) start to exceed current consoles in certain specs.
What is so wrong with devs pushing to make the next consoles more powerful?
"The console gaming experience is about delivering something that's way out past the bleeding edge and subsidising it through the software royalty model - just like Apple does with the phones. It's not that much different."
He is absolutely right. EVERY console released with the exception of the Wii has sold at a loss at first. Price drop would occur when the console hardware started breaking even. Console makers would recoop all the money and more through software sales. This is how they got such good hardware to it's customers at affordable prices and made the tech worthwhile for years at a time instead of needing an update a year or two later.

Frankfurt1600d ago

HUGE LOL at kids comparing shitty, slow PC RAM to super-fast, expensive CONSOLE RAM.

LOL.

mabreu1599d ago

Just to make things clear. Epic and Apple are companies selling a product to a large user base that don't even know or care about iPad specs.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 1599d ago
tantobanto1600d ago

I think he means beat them in terms of tech, not in terms of games

At least thats what i hope he means

CynicalVision1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

That wouldn't be a difficult thing to do, Apple seem to be hell bent on releasing a new iPad every year while consoles are around for 5-6 years at a time.

TopDudeMan1600d ago

Yeah, I couldn't play a serious game on an iphone or an ipad. A little 5 minute game of tetris or angry birds will do me on the bus, but I couldn't play games like dark souls or skyrim on something like that. You'd just lose the whole feel of epicness.

WitWolfy1600d ago

You took the words right out of my mouth

tantobanto1600d ago

I mean PC's had better tech than consoles the moment they launched, so its not really a big deal

CynicalVision1600d ago

Exactly, and look at the PS2..it's a decade old and it's still selling!

The games are the reason why people buy consoles, not the specs. Apple just don't have the gaming brand recognition and experience like the others have.

GamingTruth1600d ago

better tech than a chip sony used in sony pictures, oh nevermind you meant wii

smashcrashbash1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

How is it that Epic is kissing Apple's @$$ so much lately?

Megaman_nerd1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

because they are making games of the iPad.

ZippyZapper1600d ago

LOL no because Apple is allowing Epic to make games on the iPad. :P

Dannehkins1600d ago (Edited 1600d ago )

Probably has something to do with Infinity Blade.

The likelihood is, is that Epic's games for iOS probably don't cost the world in development, they reach an extremely large consumer base and they no doubt get a good return on their money considering Apple keeps touting a new Infinity Blade for new hardware releases, particularly the iPad. Look at the new iPad, they gave a hoot to a new Infinity Blade there.

Now I'm not interested in the debate about whether console gaming is better than mobile gaming etc etc, not in this case anyway, but by looking at the situation, I imagine the above case could probably be applied to Epic and when you consider the fact that they are in this for the money, all of a sudden Apple's platform looks far more interesting.

militant071600d ago

the question is how can they not know about the new xbox or ps!

josephayal1600d ago

Not the PS4!