Studio behind Oddworld: Stranger’s Wrath HD is critical of Nintendo for their poor relationships with indie developers/publishers and how non-Nintendo titles don't sell well.
Devs have always been scared to compete with Nintendo games. That says a lot about the quality of Nintendo's first party games. Sucks though, Oddworld was a pretty interesting game.
Looks like problems that kept the wii from making good games are going right into the wii u. This just proves that casual gaming hurts gamers in the long run. The right thing for nintendo to do is make Gamecube 2 and scrap the wii name.
its like nintendo keeps all the good libraries to themselves and the 3rd parties get no real support in creating games for the platform. Now it would be really sad if nintendo started enforcing a lock out on development for rival systems to encourage more support for their platforms. Meaning that if you want nintendo's help, you must sign the contract that makes the game only available to them. It would be like the NES all over again. I really do think there are some creative developers out there that would want to try and push the wii/wiiu but are just not that secure in vesting the interest to make it work. There are plenty of core type games on the wii but they go unnoticed due to the overcrowded casual market.
I wonder who here even owned a gamecube? I'm sick of hearing Gamecube 2. When I had my cube, everyone else had a PS2, so I got a PS2 as well. Why all the Cube love now???
Nintendo is going to keep doing what it's doing because it's making more money. Here's my two cents: 1. Indy games aren't generally profitable, unless you count Minecraft--namely because the game isn't built around an audience it's built off of an original idea that's not executed with the same cost efficiency you'd get with say a FPS developed by Activision or EA. 2. The Nintendo consoles have tried to be family friendly but have learned that third parties like Just Add Water generally don't make money off of 'family friendly' games. 3. Why the hell would we want another Gamecube. The Gamecube lost to both the Xbox and never even came close to the PS2. Hell at the end of 2005, the Gamecube had 20M consoles sold, the Xbox had 24M, the PS2 had 100M. According to VGChartz the Gamecube only made a 1.7M increase from 2005, and it still had support and games being released up until 2007. By comparison the PS2 has over 150M consoles sold to date. Sure some games were great but it was the least successful console on the market. 4. Nintendo just isn't good at getting quality third party titles because they're too focused on themselves to help their third party. 5. Nobody's going to want to develop 'exclusively' for the Wii-U--right now that thing is a huge risk and it's graphics aren't going to match next gen, if anything they'll hold it back or keep on their own Nintendo scale like this gen being the 2.5 where PS3 and 360 are the 3, they'll be the 3.5 where PS4 and Nextbox will be the 4. Nintendo needs to wisen up and get their head out of their behinds if they want to compete with the next gen, or if anything--get back the gamers they lost with the Wii.
I had a Gamecube, my favorite games on it Resident Evil 4, Capcom vs SNK 2EO, Eternal Darkness: Sanitys Requiem,Soul Caliber 2 playing with Link in a fighter was awesome along with Spawn on the Xbox version. and of course Smash Bros. So I'm gonna give it mad LOVE!! Gamecube seems like an aftertought but the Gamecube along with the Dreamcast were awesome for their time!!
@hazardman I'm not knocking the Cube, because I loved my Cube for the Nintendo games, viewtiful joe, wrestling games, RE4, Baten Kaitos and what not, but the "hardcore" gamers abandonned it, so it seems hypocritical for them to be crying for Gamecube 2.
The quality of nintendos first party games is unrivalled i think nintendo can run its own console just by its first party games. But i think that is not true, Lets say GTA5 comes to Wii U the hardcore nintendo fans will definately buy this game. But then again alot of third party developers do great on it if they make good games look at Level 5 with their professor layton games or capcom with their ace attorney games and numerous others
I don't see nintendo ever supporting / releasing M rated games on there system. Doesn't fit into the "family" image they've created this generation. That would be the cleanest version of GTA gamers have ever seen. Nintendo's version of hardcore is Metroid / Smash bros. LAWLS.
I think this is the second time that I read That_Whores comment. He must have been living under a conservative rock...
Unrivaled? that word has less and less meaning every day. Haha.
@that_who're I don't know if you were watching last years e3 but Nintendo said themselves that games like metro the last light and darksiders 2 would all be welcome on their console. And they have supported many m rated games. Ever hear if conkers bad fur day, killer instinct, metal gear solid twin snakes, and madworld?
Yeah, Nintendo can't support their console alone. Look at the wii and what happened in 2011. No 3rd games what so ever, only games from Nintendo, and sales slipped alot.
@That_Whore Are you kidding me? Nintendo outright licensed Resident Evil 4 on the Gamecube AND made a multi-game deal with Capcom with every previous game in the franchise, including the REmake.
Um not even close. Sony first party IP's > all. In both quality and quantity.
It doesn't say anything about nintendo first party games. it says something about the brainless sheep that continue to buy the same game from the same 25 year old franchises over and over in droves.
News flash gamers from 25 years ago have kids and their kids like nintendo franchises too, and its not like mario from 1985 is the same as mario from 2011!
Anyone care to explain the disagrees? Developers have expressed exactly what I just said for the longest.
Well, he's right. It's been like that for years. I ain't even mad at the devs who feel this way.
This is definitely a stereotype Nintendo needs to overcome. It's plagued them for way too long.
The reason why i think third party games don't do well is because they just don't advertise it for the nintendo platform as much as they would on other consoles
It also has to do with Nintendo's insistence on using wonky controllers/control schemes and gimmicks with their systems. Nintendo needs to tone it down a bit and get back to the basics that made it great during the NES/SNES days. Also making the horsepower under the hood of the console at least close to the same as the other two would probably help with publishers wanting to go multiplat on their system as well.
Every nintendo console has had a form of normal controls, the controllers have nothing to do with it
i don't think its the controller at all and i certainly wouldn't fault Nintendo for trying to innovate. Nintendo creates the controller with prob a few games in mind and then makes it work with all of its other franchises. its up to the devs to do the same. games can sell on Nintendo its just harder becuase its a different market and the majority of that market is casual. fortunately for Nintendo, even most casual gamers recognize most of Nintendo's characters and will happily pick up that game off the shelf. the devs need to find a way to make the Nintendo console work for them and then find a way to make their game appeal to the correct market. unfortunately this is far easier said than done, so while its possible, its much more difficult and possibly less profitable than just going on the 360/ps3. to top it all off, lately their consoles have been much different so its almost not even an option for the dev to create for wii or wii u and then port to 360/ps3 which increases the risk of loss even further. overall, i don't blame devs for not wanting to give it a shot, after all this is a business. however it is possible, unfortunately only with a lot of work and money behind it.
Oddly enough, The gamecube was more power than the PS2, IIRC.The PS2 was the weakest out of the 3. Then again, Nintendo decided to fight piracy with those mini disks, which I guess nobody liked.
This is how Nintendo's hardware always goes, its how the WiiU & 3DS will play out and you can already see that it happened with the Wii, DS, Gamecube and N64. The only 3rd party dev that has managed to get a foot in is Ubisoft. But the kind of games Ubisoft has made for the Wii has been all for the casual audience.
It's not Nintendo fault, it's more like the Nintendo users only care for Mario/Zelda games. Wrong public, not wrong politics.
Nintendo doesn't show the support for 3rd party games the way they do for their own titles. Unless it's from somebody big (like Namco with the Tales games) you're not likely to see any sort of ads for it. So there are plenty of good/great games like Fragile Dreams that people know nothing about.
That is true. Everyone, except the most deluded, knows that Nintendo treats most of their third parties like crap. The fact that any third parties except the most loyal are ready to support the Wii U in any way is surprising at best. look at most of their titles that aren't Mario and friends. Do people even remember any commercials for them at all.For Conduit or Zack and Wiki or Madworld or No more Heroes or Tatsunoko vs. Capcom or Epic Mickey.I am surprised any third party even looks at Nintendo anymore.
Its not Nintendos fault that they make such excellent games and actually advertise them properly.
Even if Nintendo improve their handling of third party titles many developers will still ignore the Wii U for the first year or two. By the time they launch the Wii U, the 360 and PS3 will each have installed bases in the 70-80 million range. If you're a small developer you're going to go where the biggest market is, and that won't be the Wii U for a while.
The Wii has a 90m+ install base and the small/indie developers still have not put full effect into the system. The WiiU isnt going to change anything.
Developers also go where they can improve on their games. They don't want to be stuck with old limits.
Which is why the Wii U will do great once it gets a better install base.
If I was a small dev, I'd do digital downloads. It would save me from finding a pub. Then again, Nintendo seems to be anti indie as well. In order to work for Nintendo, you have to have a firm or an actual business place, so you can't work from your garage or something.
That may change in due time. Microsoft had indie devs before, but look at what happened with Team Meat. Not to mention that Microsoft is currently gunning for the casual gamer and more than likely may make the same mistakes Nintendo made when they gave us the Wii.
fact: if nintendo quit the mario and zelda franchises they would no longer exist
Why should they? they are a business. It's profitable. Should Nike stop making Jordans because he retired???
the wii + wii u are/will be marketed towards children and women. thats nintendo. if resident evil 6 comes out on wii u alongside ps3 + 360 then my comment is up for debate, if not then its the wii all over. thanks.
nintendo has already said a couple hundred times that WiiU is not marketed to women and children... its a balance that is going to reclaim core gamers and keep the casuals... the only people not on board are the fanboys...
I suggest just add water checks the UK chart because Revelations is selling fine. In fact all Capcom games have met their expectations on 3DS. Others sold well as well.
Wii U is a must. Then one of Microsofts or SONYs machine. As I heard Microsofts next machine will have around the same power as Wii U and be Kinect focused. Xbox 720 with an improved kinect and a lot of children games, sounds interesting to you guys? I rather pick Wii U with masterpiece games like no other game developers can make.
Yeah, what else am I gonna play Mario Party 84 on? And Super Smash?
or uncharted 15 or halo 25.what is it 3 uncharted in 3 tears 8 halo's in eight years,and people accuse nintendo of milking their ip's
coolasj, I suggest that you go back to play COD 5467 and Modern Warfare 49. TAKE COVER, AIRSTRIKE, THROW THE GRENADES M********, TAKE COVER AGAIN, USE YOUR GUN M********, TAKE COVER, THROW THE GRENADES! Do you recognise 360 gameplay?
Regardless of what my repliers say, I hate Modern Warfare and respect Naughty Dog for limiting the number of games they have in each IP. And I love Smash Bros. Nintendo could have great new IP's if they actually tried, and advertised. One day the same characters over and over again are going to lose their appeal and Nintendo will have to change.
Pure BS. I own more 3rd party Wii games than I do Nintendo ones. Plenty of 1-2 million sellers on the Wii as well.
Muramasa Demon blade, a Wii exclusive heavily Japanese-centric title, sold best in the US than any other region.
Yea right tell that to monster hunter tri, re4, re revelations, final fantasy, just dance and all the other games that sell well on the wii and 3ds. The wii was a different beast because most owners only played wii sports and a few other casual games. The core 3rd party titles sold very well for the most part. I will admit some good titles did get overlooked which is a shame but it happens on every console. The wii u while too early to tell seems to be leaning towards a console for core gamers. Nintendo is really listening and learning, they finally have updates, dlc, new ips, eshop, an online network coming, and they learned to space out releases so theres no dry spells like on the wii. They even gave 3rd parties the chance to have open spots without compititon from nin at the 3ds launch. The most anticipated games on the 3ds are revelations, mgs3, kingdom hearts, tales of the abyss, mh tri-g, and also nintendo titles like kid icarus and luigis mansion. 3rd parties are doing fantastic on 3ds at least, i have faith the wii-u will be the same. Nintendo is going hard after 3rd parties and building partnerships with lots of 3rd party companies.
perhaps third party devs don't like nintendo because they can't sell dlc to milk the profits even more
@#12.1.1 "or uncharted 15 or halo 25.what is it 3 uncharted in 3 tears 8 halo's in eight years,and people accuse nintendo of milking their ip's" Are you serious? It's 3 Uncharted games in 4 years but have you played the games? They're excellent. Naughty Dog did Crash on PSone, Jak & Dexter on PS2 and Uncharted on PS3. In fact they're doing Last of Us on PS3 right now. Beside that there where a lot of other new IPs on the PS3 (Little Big Planet, Resistance, Infamous and many more). Don't get me wrong most of Nintendo's Mario games are fantastic (that's why I wouldn't really say they're milking it, at least not in a negative way) but there is an unquestionable lack of new IPs. I hope that changes with the Wii U.
There are new IPs, it's just that they are only available in Japan.
I have to disagree with you saying Nintendo is lacking new IP's. 1. Disaster Day of Crisis 2. Xenoblade 3. The Last Story 4. Pandoras Tower 5. Wii-Sport/Resort 6. Wii Fit/Plus 7. Wii Music 8. Excite Trucks 9. Excite Botz 10. Wii Chess 11. Regienliev 12. Trace Memory 13. Wii Party 14. Captain Rainbow That's just some off the top of my head that came out for Wii, plus you have games like Sin and Punishment 2 that just made its first appearance in NA as well as causing part 1 to be released on the VC stateside. And now your seeing the rebirth of Kid Icarus on 3DS. These may not be NEW but the are fresh new games that haven't been milked. The DS and 3DS also had some new IP's 1. Nintendogs/Cats 2. Steel Diver 3. Brain Training 4. Rythm Heaven Like I said these are all off top of my head, so I'm sure there are way more and that's not including any of their new stuff for the virtual consoles for the Wii/DS/3DS. This is fanboy talk that Nintendo doesn't have new IP's. Its just people are expecting some magical hardcore franchise from Nintendo that's equal to a call of Duty or a Halo or an Uncharted. Nintendo is the most diverse game company, as they make games for everyone which isn't easy. It is easy to focus on 1 core group and make a core game for them. Nintendo shouldn't have to do that, that's what third parties are supposed to do. They just always put watered down version on Nintendo platforms and then say, we don't see the sales. Well if you don't market the game"commercials stating its on a Nintendo console", exclude features, "DLC/Online Play" or complain like the example above, that they can't sell well on Nintendo platforms because of Nintendo games, well then now you know why your third party games fail. Its not Nintendos job to market third party games. They have their own games to market. Even though third parties make games for Nintendo platforms, they are still competition fighting for the same audience to buy their specific game.
The Wii U will have no problem with 3rd Party Games because some developers have said that the system is easy to develop for and they can port games over easier than the 360 or the PS3.
the problem I fear is dev's will do just that. Port old games over to the system because it was "easy" and they just want to get on the platform quick. I hope they'll take to the time to really make something special or give you a reason to get the game on wii u as opposed to any other system.
I think folks should really stop bringing up the "same game for years" argument. In this generation alone we have seen games go on to have 3 or more sequels. Yet people aren't complaining left and right. And with the cost of making games right now, more and more devs are taking less risk developing new ip. At some point in time that game you love may become "that same game for years".
The problem is, Nintendo's product are made for kids and soccer moms. 3rd party games does not sell on nintendo consoles because no soccer mom will buy games like GTA for their 6 year old. and most kids or adult-child who owns nintendo consoles rather buy cartoony games like pokemon or mario, etc. It's like trying to sell an RPG game to someone looking for a basketball game.
You know what? It's the games and the direction the console is going in that forms the target group. Sure the Wii is primary a console for casual gamers but it doesn't mean the Wii U will be the same. If you look at Nintendo's past consoles you can see that the audience changed. If the Wii U can pull of some exclusive core Ips I don't see why hardcore gamers shouldn't be interessted in the Wii U.
The tablet like controller does point it into the casual direction. Nintendo should have made that a secondary controller and made a normal one their primary.
This happens when you (nintendo) have Great games. (a lot of) people become addicted to it and the other games just fade
It's not just indie games that don't sell well though. Most 3rd party games don't sell well unless they're some dancing or party game. I hope Nintendo fixes this with Wii U.
Most overrated article on n4g right now... But what do you expect its downing nintendo in some way. It would mean something if this was a big 3rd pRty developer. Seriously not having there game on Wii U is not going to hurt my feelings. We just had an article on here yesterday with team ninja praising the Wii U and nintendo... But yet people still don't get it. The Wii U will be a SNES and gamecube hybrid. The power to keep up and all the games you could want from all genres.
Just Add Water should worry about themselves because last I checked...their games didn't sell well no matter the console.
The trouble is third parties generally do not put in the effort in for Nintendo consoles. The Wii has a reputation for shovelware, but guess what, all of that shovelware came from third parties like Ubisoft making games like Imagine Babiez. Even when Nintendo delayed their big games like Mario for the first few months of the 3DS, to give third parties a launch window, what happened? We got no games whatsoever and Nintendo had to drop the price.
he is right..No disrespect i mean i love nintendo but they only do good with their brand games, Square enix and capcom
I own a wii only, and it seems most of my favorite games on it, are niche games, like No More Heroes, TvC or Castle of Shikigami III. 3rd parties just have themselves to blame. They either make crap, like Ubisoft with their Imagine series, or they fail to advertise it, aside from throwing up web banners, there is nothing. which most of us use adblock+ anyways, so we don't see the banners. Another one is off-shots. RE4 sold the more than the GCN+PS2 versions and how does capcom go about this? They make rail shooters that fail to sell, because most wii owners wanted a traditional game. Another example is Dead Space: Extraction.
Well seeing as the last game they made was an uprez of a game they made almost a decade ago. I think the wii U will be better off.
Nintendo have employed big devs from Crytek,Virgil,and Naughty dog the 1 from crytek help make CryEngine 3 enough said Nintendo are getting serious. Like it or Lump it this makes seing amazing CryEngine3 games on WiiU alot better.
famous for what? One game. abes odyssey, which is what? 15 years old? so they dont want to port a 15 year old game 'with added water' to a nintendo console- big deal.
They don't if publishers don't throw their money where their mouth is and advertise!