Microsoft explains the Kinect's original goal was for gamers to share their passion with their families
Well we know this know but long before it's actual release MS and their preview videos would want you to believe otherwise.
xbox 360 was never designed for the casual gamers
Agree with colwyn. I've always seen it as: Nintendo (current state): Casual. Games for kids. XBOX: Hardcore console games. Not apologizing for it. I was ok with this. Sony: The perfect blend of both. Always taking a chance on the unknown. Everything is all mixed up now. There all fighting to be the same.
It isn't for the core or causals or hardcore. It is simply for gamers. Time for people to let go of the labels that marketing folks made of gamers. We are all gamers. No one here can give an official defintion on what an actual casual or hardcore gamer is. Just their own opinion.
@RedHemi300c I disagree with you 100%. There is a difference between a "hardcore" gamer and a "casual" gamer... I'd hardly consider someone who plays bejeweled blitz on Facebook to be in the same marketing category as someone who plays CoD religiously. They may both play games, but they are too totally different markets. Hence the need to distinguish. What you are referring to is when someone says "hardcore" is better than "casual".
@that_whore The Xbox is the mix of both, Nintendo is casual, and ps3 is hardcore. There are more casual games on Xbox than ps3. When families go out to buy a console they usually go for Nintendo or MS. when ps3 come to mind its usually metal gear solid, god of war, dark souls, and uncharted, hardly casual games.
RedHemi300c http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Even without that link should be able to tell there's a difference between a casual gamer that would never be on a site like this debating all things gaming to us. Core gamers also play casual games but its not their bread and butter or main gaming preference. Its almost like you cant acknowledge the difference between those who drive Subarus vs those who drive Prius's ...yeah they're all drivers but they're different just like a casual gamer from a core gamer http://www.computerandvideo... notice what games he refers to as 'core', notice that he differentiates between core and casual even though I personally believe that some games blur the lines Ill throw a question out to n4g...Is Super Puzzle Fighter II core or casual....I think its core because of its complexity and learning curve even though on the surface it seems casual...Just a question. @ gamingdroid.. Definitely.. anybody who says they haven't been a casual or dabbled in casual gaming is deluded BUT the point is people like us on n4g are definitely NOT in the same gaming category as soccer moms who couldnt tell and MMO from an M16
@lifesanrpg So what would you call a gamer like me, that plays Angry Bird and Fruit Ninja on my phone? Enjoys an occasional Mario Party or Kinect Sports, but also plays a lot of Gears of War, Mass Effect, CoD and so on. We all aren't younger than tweenies and only play "hardcore" games. Some of us also loves to play in a social setting and others have families, that they would like to game with.
@gamingdroid I would say your "hardcore" you enjoy all types of games and not just the mass marketed pop games. Its funny how people on this site get insecure about their hardcoreness to the point where they have to ask Lol
Uhhh. I'm pretty sure they said that Kinect would do games for the hardcore. Pew.Pew.Pew. Comes to mind. -ducks behind couch-
I'll never understand why people are shocked when Microsoft lie to their customers.
Yeah that's what they said. That is what all of Microsoft's flunkies said. Remember how many people said Child of Eden would be THE game that would attract hardcore and almost no one brought it? But now most hardcore have shown they don't give a $hit it's backpedaling and damage control time
Plus, they're trying to market their "hardcore" games as the "best version" because they paid* devs/pubs for exclusive voice control. As if yelling at the TV is a better solution than to clicking the right bumper for the next gun setup, or memorizing commands to yell instead of holding a button and selecting it. *(ps2 games and older had no issue with voice control, and with no compromises (see SOCOM, which had plenty of fairly opened up levels), and the ps3 has its own simple set for implementing voice control, so don't tell me that the reason for the exclusivity is Kinect's "powerful" application chip or setup for adding voice control)
Yea they did say that. And what exactly did they deliver for the "hardcore" crowd.. like some silly hack n' slash that was allegedly a survival horror game (was it called "Rise of the Nightmare" or something?? I cant exaclty remember), but it got terrible reviews. Then between 20 releases of cute and cuddly Kinect Shovelware, they release that Blackwater game, which also recieved abhorrent scores. The closest they've come to so far to a hardcore Kinect-tion (excuse the pun, i couldn't resist) was head-tracking on Forza Motorsport 4, which is unncessary and I'd doubt any serious Forza competitor uses it. So yea.. thanks for finally telling the truth, Microsoft. I guess I won't keep my hopes up for any cool peripherals that would make a hardcore game worth playing with Kinect integration.
Hahaha. Did anyone seriously expect they will make hardcore games for Kinect? I thought after the Wii, people would know better. Guess not...
only an idiot expected kinect to be hardcore focused
You mean like the idiots in the MS PR department who kept saying it? That MS as a whole is giving up on the *con*cept even though their Panzer Dragoon and Steel Battalion titles aren't out yet? Not to mention getting EA to attach voice command to ME3 instead of using a headset.
Headsets don't have built-in voice recognition software like Kinect offers...
Microsoft's PR said Kinect would have hardcore games. Edit: And down below PamPoovey, who joined 13 days ago, is saying, "Really.....because when Kinct was revealed all you guys have been saying is that it's for the core and always was...how we all love it and how it's already aimed at us" "All you guys were saying...." Joined 13 days ago? 13? Why hasn't PamPoovey been banned yet?
Because people visit sites before they join them. I haven't been commenting on this site for a year, but I've been using it since about October 2010. My coworkers have been visiting the site for longer and have yet to make an account. I don't generally agree with Pam Poovey, but in this case, she's right. Far too many people were all over the Kinect bandwagon. And yet, after all this time, that view has not been vindicated.
Microsoft really screwed up the marketing instead of just family fun they should have also incorporated the hardcore gamer as well. Support of two fields brings in more money and sells more product. The Kinnect is alright great technology but marketed poorly its not family fun that has supported the Xbox but the harcoregamer is what made the Xbox what it is today.
Oh shut up. Kinect is used for more than games yet it has sold over 18 million and a year later we got folks like you whining about who it is for? Grow up. LMAO how you claim it is marketed poorly yet it has sold as many as it has. Tell me what is the offical definition of a hardcore gamer?
Yeah I don't really understand why people keep saying that. It seems like nothing can be "family fun" anymore and recieves hate for little or no reason. I mean, I've noticed that people are hating on MS for marketing THEIR product the way they wanted to and probably the way that would get them the most successful results. Seems like everyone wants a product that shows off gritty, gore-crazy games. This is what gaming has been reduced to.
Really.....because when Kinct was revealed all you guys have been saying is that it's for the core and always was...how we all love it and how it's already aimed at us It's only recently they've admitted the truth and thats because they know they've sold enough to make a profit now....the core suckers served their purpose. http://www.technobuffalo.co... http://www.computerandvideo... http://www.vg247.com/2011/0...
a little harsh but difficult to disagree with. have any of you seen the latest Starwars promotion? here, take a look at the future: http://www.youtube.com/watc...
"A controller... not as clumsy or random as a Kinect. An elegant input device, for a more civilized age."
all they need to do is, replace the audio with Gilligan's Island theme song playing. That way an Xbox owner will feel no shame JUMPING OUT THE BOAT!
'Really.....because when Kinct was revealed all you guys have been saying is that it's for the core and always was...how we all love it and how it's already aimed at us' LOL @ that not even being CLOSE to what happened when Kinect was revealed. The best part is the fact that NONE of your article links come close to saying it either. The truth is when Kinect was revealed all of the media said it would fail because they said the 360 'core' gamer wouldn't buy one and the casuals were owned by 'nintendo' who wouldn't trade in theor Wiis for a 360 and Kinect. Fast forward and the millions and millions of Kinect owners are made up of ALL types of gamers, just like the Wii. Kinect is a hands down success because these internet ducktales simply don't represent reality when you log off. Some of the biggest Kinect heads I know still spend a gazillion hours on Liver working on their 4th prestige in COD. Both Micrsoft and Sony created their niche in the motion control space. Kinect has or will be implemented in some way into almost every hardcore game genre there is by the end of this year. At the end of the day, those games as well as Kinect are still optional. Evil
http://news.softpedia.com/n... ""There are many [hardcore games] coming," he said to CVG. "This is sort of scratching the surface of what's happening, but we've got Child of Eden here today, we've got Twisted Pixel's Gunstringer... and certainly you're going to see more. We're not even a hundred days since we launched Kinect yet. It was very intentional with Kinect to go out and deliver blockbusters like Kinect Sports and Dance Central - games that resonated with a broader audience."" http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed... "According to Microsoft's UK marketing boss Stephen McGill, hardcore Kinect games will be shown off in 2011." http://www.industrygamers.c... "Kinect isn't designed to alienate the hardcore gamers who've put Xbox in the position it's in today, however. Microsoft still hopes to create games for the core gaming crowd on Kinect, Albert Penello, senior director of global marketing for Xbox 360 told IndustryGamers." Odd statements to make previously then.
Thom...Its not nice to play with shotguns and its never fair to pont them at peoples faces...lol Pr is just that...Pr Many fans believed the 'kinect can do core hype' but the demos the fake shows and the tech itself made the skeptics sound like haters when they were mostly just saying what they saw NOT and believing what they were told like the kinect defenders. Couple years later and the best game ive played on kinect is fruit ninja....no sign of anything core...that has been replaced by intergration which many people predicted from the bloody get go (also called haters) Worst thing is people will STILL label people who have stated things similar to what Microsoft are now saying as haters or whatever. Peeeep Peeeep Peeeep
Everyone but the diehards prediected the "you are the controller" nonsense was never going to apply to core games. I'm not even sure what the point of the integration is for the most part but Kinect does what we all knew it would do well. Dance Central, Kinectimals, Disneyland and Seasame Street.
Eesh, man, straight for the jugular. Have a "well said" bubble vote.
@piratethom: but will those statements register with MS fans? you know the answer
Where did they lie in ANY statement made about hardcore games? Article #1: Came out last March. Just like the article said Micrsoft's intention all along was to initially capture what made Nintendo a hit with games like K.Sports and Dance Central. They then talked about how 'Eden' came first with Ginslinger and more coming. The article then talks about how they gave more tools to 3rd party such as facial recognition and voice control in hopes it would lend to more creative games in the hardcore space. Article 2: LOL @ you going back to November 2010 for that one. In the article they were talking about 2 of the Japanses hardcore games that are still coming Steel Batallion and Suda 51's 'Codename D'. Wow Pirate Thom..you completely missed what Microsoft said in the 3rd article..let me help. 'Regarding core gaming on Kinect, he elaborated, "Core gamers will say to me, 'What is Kinect going to do for me?' Well, you probably have a girlfriend, or you have a sister, or a brother, or a niece, or a nephew, or a wife, or a mom, or an aunt who you’ve probably wanted to have experience, you know, the kind of stuff that you enjoy. And oh, by the way, we're doing some really cool stuff with dash navigation and the people who experience it really get a kick out of the sort of virtual reality/Minority Report style. And oh by the way, we just launched the thing. At no point have we ever said, 'I don’t have any interest in having core games come out on Kinect.' We wanted to come out and make a statement that said, 'We want to try and do something different than the Wii, different than wands and hands, something that’s magical, that takes away the abstraction, and I want a bunch of new types of games created.' Again, they have been up front about Kinect from Day one. They never needed Kinect to control shooters as the 360 controller is perfection for Shooters. Bottomline Kinect topped the motion control experiences that Nintendo Wii had a monopoly on. They led with a few core type experiences in it's first year, but we are now in year two and we see what's on deck. Sports games ARE core games and Fifa, Madden, and Tiger Woods are the biggest core sports games on earth..all will use Kinect to control them this year. (See Tiger Woods impressions of Kinect after hw played for the first time) You have Mass Effect 3, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six etc. Plus you have Project Draco, Steel Batallion, and Fable: The Journey. It's all still apart of the 360 experience. The controller isn't going anywhere for core period, but when you want different experiences that you and your family can enjoy then Kinect provides that option. If not you can simply not play or own one and whine on the internet about how no one should enjoy it because you don't. Millions chose option 1...we know where to find who chose option 2 Evil
I'm glad you're able to clear up these PR statements... even though they're completely contradictory to what Microsoft are now saying.
Who has to clear them up? Simply read them. Since day one they have been saying who they were targeting Kinect to. But when the hardcore question kept coming out they have always said they wanted the implementation to make sense. They have been all about game experienced geared toward what Kinect does best. The strategy has clearly worked thus far if it didn't there would be a thousand articles exclaiming it failed. Evil
Evil, you may feel they came good on their claims but thats if you blur the lines between core and casual games. A sports game is core but that same sports game with limited application of kinect is not. That is not core gaming on kinect as you know as well as most of us do that complex hair trigger inputs that make sports games core cannot be achieved and the proof is the fact there are no complex sports games available. Try not to take what im saying the wrong way but telling me how well kinect is doing is irrelavant here. MS and many members here on n4g were telling us kinect could do core and will produce core games...Everybody knew who kinects target audience were so mentioning that is a moot point, anybody who feels it wasnt primarily aimed at the casual market and is now accusing ms of foul play is playing dumb or truly ignorant. "I think we know that hard-core gamers will be the first to go out and buy it, as they are with any product," Moore told CVG. "So we know we have to have a wide range of experiences, from things like [an] animals game to games that are more geared towards the core." MS have stated (please google) that it can do core but we are still waiting. Not saying kinect isnt fun or successful im just saying it cant do core gaming by itself. Heres an article that feels some games will address a perception some feel doesnt really exist and that is that their is a core game expectation for kinect http://www.nowgamer.com/fea... On paper some of those games do seem to be more on the core end than casual BUT judgements will have to be made after playing these titles. Ill also say that core is different for each person but according to greenbergs definition core games are the games like crackdown, gears, forza and any other game he states are core in the interview i posted earlier. That fable is a core game dumbed down and the closest to core gaming kinect will probably ever have is something that requires an additional input device be it pad stearing wheel or wand. Ive no personal issue with that as I predicted that well over a year ago but what i do have an issue is calling forzas kinect intergration core gaming thus saying kinect has core games when that clearly isnt the case. Can you play forza with kinect alone......exactly
This is pure entertainment. Look this isn't rocket science we definately get where Pirate Thom and of course we know where Why o Why stands. But, once again, Pirate Thom used 3 article links that literally showed that Microsoft has done exactly what they claimed. Why O why will jump in multiple articles claiming that soccer moms are the ones who buy Kinect, but then NOW he's pretending that he's some avid Kinect player. 'Couple years later and the best game ive played on kinect is fruit ninja....no sign of anything core' LMFAO @ the best game YOUVE played. You don't own or play Kinect you freely admit it why claim Fruit Ninja now because you read what ACTUAL Kinect owners say they enjoy. Here's the bottomline, no matter how Why o Why or any of the Kinect detractors have to downplay EVERY Kinect game as dumbed down or not hardcore, but that's his opinion and he's not the audience that is interested in what Kinect has to offer. For instance Game Informer reviewed 'The Gunstringer' and said this: 'The Gunstringer proves that Kinect can appeal to hardcore gamers looking for fast-paced action and a great story.' The Wii mainly won last gen on the strength of Wii Sports and later Wii Fit. Now we see that Just Dance is the game that sells more Wiis than Zelda. Right out of the gate, Kinect matched and topped all 3 of those experiences with Kinect Sports, Dance Central, and Fitness Evolved. Sony's strategy with Move has been to market it mainly as an alternate controller with existing hardcore games. Kinect is adapting that approach with the 'Better' motto. Kinect has now been used in core games such as Forza 4, Halo Anniversary, and Child of Eden. Now this year it will continue with Fifa, Madden, and of course the upcoming Mass Effect 3. Nobody is claiming that games like Fable:The Journey and Sorcery are on the level as Fable, Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy. But what it is is a hardcore franchise built up from the ground with Kinect in mind and that's all you can ask. If people havent figured out that Micrsofts hardcore gamers already play Gear 3, Halo Reach, Call of Duty: MW3, Black Ops, and Elder Scrolls by the millions as it is. They never need Kinect to compete with those franchises. Wghat it does is allow those gamers that want to play fun experiences with family and friends and have an alternate in the mutli-media space as well..they have an option. And like I've said millions have chosen that option in only a year and a few months since launch. Evil
PirateThom with the undisputed facts & links (though it's clear there are those who will try no matter what)... But is anyone else <reading or hearing> a sheep's "Baaaah...Baaaah..." when it comes to some of the statements/excuses being said in some of these comments? Or is it just me? LoL! >_< Anyway, great post Thom!
If kinect isnt for the "hardcore" then why do they keep trying to shoe horn kinect functionality into games that arent for casual gamers?? I still remember how goofy that guy looked at E3 trying to play a FPS with kinect.
"Trying" is the operative word here.
Xbox WAS for the hardcore crowd. Now it's just a Kinect wasteland. Xbox is just not cool anymore. Sure a few really good multiplats have come out but they are also available elsewhere. 2007-2008 were the glory years of Xbox for sure. Hopefully the next Xbox will resonate with me again because I truly like cutting edge tech (not Kinect however no matter how "cutting edge" MS proclaims it to be). This is just my personal feeling on the system as it is today. I know many enjoy the change of focus for the system and that is great - just not my thing and I spent thousands of dollars on my Xbox since launch - pity really.
Yet the xbox only players love to gloat about the sales like it is a positive thing for the original core players
Kinect wasn't made for hardcore gamers?!...
I was at BB yesterday and one guy was trying to decide on what system to buy...a $199 4GB Xbox or $249 160GB PS3. I told him to get the ps3 because it has more exclusives plus all the multiplats and he told me he feels xbox is a hardcore system with more hardcore games while ps3 was more of a media system....I said WHATTTTT!!!! I broke it down for him and he still bought the 4GB LMAO
Maybe he noticed your bias? Then again, i wouldn`t listen to a geek`s opinion either.
Wouldn't listen to a geek's opinion? What the hell are you doing on this site?
Bias? Nope, it's called being smart. Buy a PS3 = 249.99 (Blu-ray Format) Buy a 4GB Xbox (DVD Format)= 199.99 + plus an extra HDD in a few weeks $99.99 + plus rechargeable controller cable $19.99 (unless you want to buy AA's all day) + Xbox Live $60 We haven't even gotten to the games yet... This Petit guy is a joke.... He PM'd me a few months ago telling me I need to go back to my country because I prefer the PS3 over Xbox. It's funny just because my tag is "Ryo-Hazuki" doesn't mean im some Japanese guy who is from Japan. If you had any gaming knowledge you would know who Ryo is. And btw I'm a white guy from the U.S who lives in Texas and I own both systems. I just game more on my PS3. And since when it became a country thing when it comes to consoles? You're a joke
@Ryo-Hazuki Or y'know, you buy a slightly older elite 250GB model new with a couple of games included for the same or less than the 4GB Slim, a 12 month Live sub card from Amazon or wherever for a lot less than $60, and a pack of rechargeable batteries and you're done. I pays to be a smart consumer, and not such a muppet.
Xbox used to be hardcore, but then it "corny overused meme."
you should have told them this most of games found on xbox are on the ps3 and if you wanted to play multiplayer you have to pay for xbox live and buy a hard drive on top of that. and the only reason to get the xbox is if most of their friends has xbox themselves.
hahah, that dum ass wont get far with that 4gb xbox. even if he used it just for games, that will fill up with 4 account or so! then he will be force to buy the bigger hardrive.
Many of us said this from day one. Yet the fanboys shot us down. Glad to see it come from the horses mouth. Dat deception.
yea i remember them saying that it would have some games for the hardcore though i haven't seen much. They can still make some hardcore games with it they just need to blend it perfectly with free movement and gesture activated moves. Hardcore can be done on the xbox since it already has been done on the PC with a simple program. Add in the control schemes from the current popular video poster and somehow get these actions with voice commands into a patch or update and include it in future titles and BAM! you got hardcore.
Why do articles like these keep being approved? The same thing happens over and over again, you read the article, go to the comments and what do you find? PC and Console fanboys alike, many (I HATE MS and MS is evil) messages, and your "GO HARDCORE F THE CASUALS!". Don't get me wrong there are a few comments with opinions and facts to support them, but those are a dying breed on kinect articles. I swear it's like you guys see an article that has something to do with Kinect and flock to it like birds, but you make sure that you can insult casuals or mindlessly rant about MS related products... Ah gaming.
I saw Kinect for the first time the other day... They had been demoing a dance game and a Tennis game from the K.Sports season 2. Firstly even though the girl (demoer) was reasonably attractive she still looked pretty bad while dancing, not that she couldn't pull the moves off but the whole thing just looked bad and gave off a lonely vibe like she should not be doing that with others standing around her but maybe on a quiet night in while being heavily intoxicated. Onto the tennis, the movements did not even Kinect (pun), this is a brand new game and she had to do the movements a second or two before the ball came at her, when she jumped her avatar did not follow and the animations on screen (ball and racquet) were not even kinecting (punx2) on screen. I hadn't seen Kinect in action before but I gotta ask what do people like about it? The whole thing looks horribly broken!?
I don't know bout ya'll, but Ima be playing mass effect 3 with the kinect. Also plan to smoke and drink casually while playing mass effect 3 hardcore. Am I a casual or hardcore gamer?
I did remember Kinect was for hardcore said MS. I found this slogan on my Xbox last year: Core For Kinect. Now they are saying Kinect isnt for hardcore, what have they been smoking lately? My Kinect is getting stuffd away pretty soon, it was fun for 10-15 hours but not anymore.
What you talking about??Of course kinect is for the hardcore just watch these hardcore cod players /s xD. http://youtu.be/7XzYDpAQ-xg
The Xbox was hardcore but times have changed, MS wanted the wii crowd and they got it at the expense of the hardcore and with peripherals like kinect and no first party studios the Xbox is all but casual now.
Xbox Kinect was never designed for the 'hardcore' gamer
MS lied then, because they said repeatedly around launch that it was for both the hardcore and casual gamer and promised a bunch of core games were on the way.
Duh! still lots of fun at parties or with family. I used to fire up the Wii when people came over but now it's all about Kinect.
When my LIVE is up Im most likely going PS3 only... There just hasn't been anything worth while on it for a long time... to me! I didn't buy anything for months then Gears 3 hit, beat the campaign... don't care for the online... now what? I literally see nothing of interest, well maybe that Alan Wake DL stuff but that's it!
Who are you kidding? You don't have a 360. Nice try though.
Judging by the hardcore games I've enjoyed on Kinect so far, and the slew of them coming out this year, I'd say its serving that audience pretty well.
Straight from the horse's mouth but no matter what people are still gonna try to spin this.