A good piece on why Microsoft Points actually do more good than harm for gamers, and why they'll miss them when they're gone.
I think this is a good article shedding some proper and objective light on the issue.
this was a rather interesting article and hes absolutely right in some cases. i didnt see them on sale often but they were bundled with things a lot, if they start to use real money, the author is spot on, they will never give you cash :/
Dunno about MS, but you can get "discounts" on PSN cards, e.g.: http://www.shopto.net/PS3/V... Thats just 1 example, I have seen others.
Yah I bought 2 4000 point cards last night on ebay for $80 with instant email delivery. If I bought from MS store it would be $99.99+tax.
LOL at disagree to my first comment http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xbo... http://www.xbox.com/en-US/X...
the people who disagreed are idiots
Making a comment like that makes you an idiot.
The people who disagreed are just the PS3 horde. Welcome to the Xbox section of N4G.
Hmm... What about tax? "Get ready to pay it, get ready to pay it hard"? Did MS announce that tax will now be added to the dollar amount of all purchases after points are gone?
not sure...do they add tax when you buy a game from the games on demand section? if so then yeah they definitely are....they tax you when you buy points also...whenever theres "real" money involved i think theres always going to be some kind of tax
except what the author failed to mention is that if you wanted to purchase a game that was on sale for, say, 600 points you are forced to purchase at least 1000 MS points, which leaves you with 400 points left over. the next time you wanted to purchase a game, you are forced to purchase at least 1000 more MS points. the smart thing to have done was to allow people to purchase the (as per my example) 600 points rather than forcing you to pay more money on points you wouldn't really have used on add-on content or avatar nonsense. if they eliminate points and go to a monetary system, they should (at the very least) allow the system to add the exact amount of the purchase to your wallet (if you have nothing in your wallet) when you go to purchase a game/add-on/whatever. and the whole points card going on sale is a bit of a moot point anyway since XBL gold cards go on sale constantly and you certainly don't use MS points to purchase those. there'd also be no reason to not put whatever type of cards they come up with on sale, either - as someone pointed out, PSN cards do go on sale sometimes. i'll also have to double-check this, but i haven't noticed any tax being added to my recent PS store purchases, so i'm not even sure if the author's argument that you're going to be taxed to hell is even true. i had received a $20 PSN card as a gift over the holidays, paid for infamous: bound in blood, which was $9.99 and i had $10.01 left in my wallet. my next purchase was darksiders, which was on sale for $14.99 and i only paid the difference. i also once had 50 cents in my wallet, so i bought one of their premium avatars and i was left with 1 cent. anyway, i've been calling for them to eliminate that silly points system for a long time now and i'm glad that they're finally going to potentially do something about it....
lol @ disagreeing with facts...
Since when are there PSN point cards? Hmm, must have missed that memo. He is right about discounted and free point cards though. There is always a way to get more MS points than what you pay for. People never hated the points, it was only the uneven conversion from points to dollars. If $2 = 200 points everything would be ok.
It's not even that that always bothers me... it's that things are priced in 400-800-1200 blocks, yet I can only buy 500-1000-2000 blocks, meaning I'm always over spending. I was 80 points off of gears 3 DLC the other week... that's about 80p in stirling, I had to pay about £4.00 to get that 80 points :/
That's 80p in Glasgow too!
That's exactly why I hate points, I don't care about discounts on points, I don't care about how those points are bundled with other crap (never got them). I don't want to have extra points laying around forever, and the only way to use them is by adding more points.
On PS3 you can only add funds into your wallet in 5s, 10s, 15s ect. So if your DLC is £3 or £8, you end up over paying by adding 5£ or £10.
Why is it so difficult for MS Points buyers remember divide by 80 = actual $ value? Because there's no $ value on MS points card, it's often on sale that PS3/Wii points card rarely on sale.
Why should they even have to divide by 80 everytime they want to figure out how much their spending?
You don't if you know simple math and have a long term memory
Well, use you basic math division skill or loose discount to MS actual currency card. Which is better? When we loose daily discount to MS points card if MS does switch to actual currency card, then don't complain. (Do you hear PS3/Wii gamers complain about lack/very rare discount to their actual currency points card? They got used to paying full price.)
Author has no understanding of basic economics. (remember that MS points were essentially a currency where they could pick and choose exchange rates...)
Wrong. Points are set regardless of the exchange rate. They don't fluctuate against any currency. 80points will always cost me $1. Regardless of the market. And people ask why they don't do a 100 points equals $1 thing to make it easier. Does that make it any easier for those that don't use dollars? The only people that even worry about exchange rates are those that don't have point cards for sale in their currency. And even then it has nothing to do with MS setting rates as the points rates do not change with MS.
What does that have to do with anything? 80 points may always cost you a dollar but $1 will always equal $1. What will fluctuate is the cost of what you are buying. What might have cost 800 points can easily increase to 1000. The reason that points are such a ripoff is that you always end up short by like 20 points and have to buy like 400 just to make up that difference. A dollar amount is most efficient like the PSN uses. As long as your total purchase is over $5, you can pay exactly the amount you need. This is no different than trying to buy a candy bar at a gas station and they say there's a $5 minimum for credit card purchases. I swear it is truly hilarious what people will tolerate and defend for Microsoft but if Sony did it, it's the end of the world...
I am assuming that you have never purchased a single MS point and are only throwing out conjecture on the subject. So you are saying that because a price increase may happen in the future that it somehow eludes to MS resetting their currency rate? (as bozebo posted about MS picking and choosing exchange rates) I guess Walmart and all the other businesses out there are fixing their own exchange rates when they are adjusting prices too? And as you pointed out that 80points will always equal $1. Because $1 doesn't buy as much as it did years ago is due to inflation and many other factors... not exchange fixing as was mentioned. A PSN game that cost you $19.99 might cost you $29.99 in the future... that doesn't mean that Sony is doing anything different just because MS uses the points system and they don't. Yes maybe that 20 points difference between being able to get a game is annoying... and yet you don't see too many people harping about it except those that have never even used it. I get free 20 points into my account every month by simply answering a few (usually 5) survey questions from Xbox Live Rewards. So if you aren't smart enough to use the free service then you have nothing to complain about. I have gotten 1130 points free since signing up for Xbox Live Rewards. Can't really do that with dollars as someone mentioned... free money is rarely something people give out. Simply it is a marketing tool that allows MS to advertise their product equally across different regions without the added cost of currency identification on their end. Could they reduce the amount of points purchased to maybe 100 points or so? Maybe. Does it factor to me? No. The free points I have gotten have way out weighed any 20 point difference issues that I might come across. (I just wait for my free points to come into my account the next month.)
Well, congratulations on getting a few free points from Microsoft. It's really funny how you confuse price inflation with currency exchange. Currently 80 points may still be worth a dollar. Ten years from now, 80 points may still in fact be worth a dollar. But what does that matter if the things you buy triple in price? And BTW, Sony doesn't have to reward you with bullshit currency. They just give you free downloads. And also, I got a free $10 voucher from them just a few months ago, so I still don't understand your point.
Tax, again and again? sorry but I just bought darksiders on PSN like two or three weeks ago for 19.99. no tax. Maybe living in canada has something to do with it but I've not paid more than the shown price on PSN.
yeah everything on psn is listed price, no taxes, i use my credit card to buy everything i want on psn. I heard stores charge taxes on the psn gift cards. I have not bought one myself so not sure.
Nope stores don't charge tax for PSN cards i always get mine from there and i always pay $20 or $50.
Depends on the area. Here there is no tax if you buy it direct with a credit card and its not over a certain amount. However if I have a PSN card from a local store, it charges tax and its a LOT. I think I paid 3 bucks for a 12 or 15 dollar purchase. I just buy them on Amazon or buy direct, since neither of those charge me tax for some reason.
If you aren't paying tax its becuase where you live they don't have a sales tax. In Texas I always pay sales tax even on the internet if the company I am purchasing from has a brick and mortar store in the state of Texas. Thats why Amazon, Newegg, ebay and other out of state stores with good prices are my favorite places to shop :)
yea i noticed that too. there is no tax on psn. atleast anymore now
people on here dont seem to understand why 1 MS point doesnt equal $1. let me enlighten you. the reason Microsoft went with MS Points is so they could have a universal pricing scheme for xbox live. By using MS points, if they want Game X to cost US$5, Game X can get set at 400MS, and then thats it. If they wanted it to cost US$5 but were using normal money, they would have to have different prices for each game based on the currency of the country its being sold in, as well as based on conversion rates. then they get the problem of how often do they update their conversion rates? By using MS Points, they remove all of that. They simply say 400MS points is 400MS points. that might cost someone in the USA $5, but it might cost someone in Turkey 325625 gobble gobbles (or whatever their currency is) which might be the equivalent of US$6. To the person on xbox live though, it looks good because they dont see that America gets it for cheaper than they do - they just see its 400MS Points on their Xbox live, and 400MS points on the US xbox live. its a universal pricing scheme, that gives each country more flexibility.
This makes more sense than this article did. Those points were weak. I am a new Xbox owner, and I have not bought anything on Live yet because of the points.
While you said probably the official reason but why didn't Microsoft sale 6000 MS points card for US$50 MSRP? It's to get Live users think they aren't spending as much as the actual value. For example, when you spend 4000 MS points (which is $50 MSRP), it "feels" more like you are only spending "$40". This system is commonly done for reward points. They give you more larger number points that are worth less when converted to actual currency. Like it or not, consumers in general don't convert the points to actual value before spending.
But wouldn't that theory only apply to stupid people. Unfortunately, they will screw up something somewhere no matter how easy you make it for them. You can't bubblewrap the world for them. 400 points is $5. If you don't realize you just paid 50 bucks at the register, you should go back to school and learn how to count again. I understand where you're going. Like feeling better about 2.99 as opposed to 3 bucks. But people need to learn to think a little better.
I personally don't care if they use points, dollars, rupees, gil, or zenny. What I don't agree with is not being able to just pay for what I need. I hate having to buy a bunch of points just to make up a 20 point difference. And then, you don't want to buy the smallest point value because you know you can't do anything with THAT balance yet again!
28, I agree about having to buy more than you need sometimes. But it doesn't come close to outweighing the advantages of the points system. I may be stuck with a dollars worth of points sometimes. But I will always have an account and there will eventually be something else I want to buy. If I have 80 of 1600 points left and I paid $15 for those points, it's still a discount on money.
Lol I disagree with your statement but laughed at the Turkish Gobble Gobble
Dead on and well said 'Ihate' 6 years later and it's amazing people still don't understand. I always dug the points system, it does make it 'feel' easier to spend your money on games and movies. But, what I love is when a big game or movie comes out that I definately want to buy immediately and I look and already have enough points left over to get it 'seemingly' for free. (although I'm not) Either way having them or not it never stopped me from buying a gazillion things off of Live since year one and on the flipside it never hindered me from buying games from the PSN store with the currency shown. Evil
And Microsoft truly loves you for this. That is their true reason for the point system...
That makes sense. 400 Ms points = 5 us dollars or 8.97 Turkish lira or 249 Indian rupees or 3.82 euros or 3.19 British pounds. Yes, those numbers are accurate. Behold the power of Google.
FINALLY an article about MS Points that fully understands the pros of keeping the system. Its definitely in the consumers best interest for MS points to continue
I didn't like always having to buy more points than I actually needed for a purchase. I've never seen an MS points sale myself, either. Rewards, never knew about them and never entered any programs. Tax, is possible.
I was expecting a bullshit list but these are some good points. Kudos to the writer on a well put argument. Only problem is the first counter to people problem with MS points, left over points are a bad thing no matter how you try and spin it. What they need to do is sell the points in more practical amounts, not where it will leave a small remainder, just because you may use those extras eventually doesn't mean everyone will or excuses MS for forcing us to buy more than we want or need to. But otherwise the pro points are actually all viable and true.
Didn't bother to read. The point system is obviously flawed. I would rather know how much money I'm going to get on a network card. The MSpoints system was silly making you pay a minimum of, 500 points I think, If you didn't have enough points to spend on something you wanted.
Next time if you don't bother to read then don't bother to reply to something you know nothing about.
I've seen other articles prior to this one a week ago. I think I know where it's going.
That is like saying that you don't need to read someones review of a game because you read others from someone else already.
Now that's just silly. I buy my games based off of majority review and my own general tastes, not just opinion based articles. Also, there have been more than enough articles posted since last week about this same topic so if course everyone that read them last week knows where this one's going...
I hate MS points. Don't bullshit me and give me a currency ($) value for my games. And if a game costs $6.95, let me add $6.95 to my account, don't force me to spend $10 on MS points. Dicks.
I dont get how pple can disagree with what u said. Im reading the comments here and Its truly laughable... I guess some pple like to waste money. Its like when MacBots defend Apple products as if they were there child... MSpoints is just a sleezy way to rip u off.
This is not an issue with points though, this is an issue with adding a certain amount whether its points or dollars. So this doesn't really apply, but it is a good suggestion as an option for adding points
If you a have only a small logic you will make a rule of 3 to know the real amount of cash you are paying. So for a 800 point transaction it will look like this 800 x 19,99$ (adjust the total $$$ to the price you paid for your card and the number of msp the same way) total (800 X 19.99) \ 1600 = 9, 995$ it's that simple for all transaction a rule of 3 !!!
MS Points is the best thing that happended to me on Xbox. First everybody who bought the Points in a Retail Store trows his Money away. Always buy them Online. I live in Germany and here the Currency-Change to england is a great favor. So i can buy 4200 Microsoft Points for 35 Euro instead of 50 €. So instead of 84 Points per Euro i got 120. I dont think that this will be the same after the Change. So even if you are living in the US, you can buy 4000 Points for 40 $ on ebay. Thats 1 % for 100 Points instead of 80. a 20 % saving.
people are dumb, who the hell complains about MS points being converted? it was an idiotic system in the first place created to fool the idiots who bought them. you were more likely to spend more MS points because you weren't sure what the rate of conversion to dollar's were, and while alot of us were too smart to fall for it the average casual moron did. if they were going to use points it shoulda been like nintendos where 100= 1$,1000= 10$ etc but 20$=1600? wtf kinda conversion rate was that lol
So what's going to happen to Indie games if points are discontinued? I don't see a lot of people whipping out the credit card for $1.
they shouldnt get rid of the points they should just give people the opportunity to buy exactly how much they need instead of 400 800 1600 etc etc...if i want only 100 points i shouldnt have to buy 400 points
This is so stupid. Microsoft points are the worst thing to ever happen. I remember buying them once and they were wrapped in a ton of plastic. I had to pay tax for them, and the crooks at M$ put enough points so that it is not enough to buy two games: eg. they sell 1400 point cards here in Canada, not 1600. Now to compare this with PSN cards: I got one that has it's value in dollars, it had little wrapping, I didn't pay tax for it and come in either 20$ or 50$ with most games priced in 5$ increments. That is why I prefer PSN to Xbla.
So if Microsoft switch to real currency cards like iTunes, PSN, Amazon vouchers etc I don't quite see how that will have much of an effect on anyone as you'll still be buying a monetary value card to transfer to your account rather than using a credit card etc and you'll likely still be buying them from the same places you purchased the MS points cards with much the same discounts. The tax isn't in the cards just like cheques,CC's as it's classed as an alternate form of cash. The tax is on the price of the goods and services you purchase such as the game or app from iTunes / PSN etc.
The people that suddenly think their gonna pay tax are stupid. YOU ALREADY PAY TAX. You pay tac whether or not you buy them online or via retail so what does it matter? 2. You would still get sales. i manage to always find a sale on psn cards. 3. who uses the reward system anyway? its not like the reward system would be going away either You have to buy alot for it to really even matter
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