The Blu-Ray has now been dismissed by Universal Studios, Craig Kornblau explains why the HD-DVD will win the next-gen DVD war.
Great story! When will sony learn?
Universal Studios has always been exclusive supporter of HD-DVD, so this non-news story hardly comes as a surprise. The list of moviestudios exclusively supporting Blu-Ray is longer, as is the list of hardware manufacturers.
This is unproven technology burning when it rolls out to early, to expensive, and to weak. Sony just got kicked in the balls! Again!
Dismissed before its even had a chance to start! thats gotta hurt!
The review mentioned how people who've seen BluRay and HD-DVD playing the same movies agree that HD-DVD is technically superior in most every aspect, so it's not like BluRay wasn't in the equation. Also, BluRay drives and discs are technically available in some places... so it is on the market (sort of).
Wow...that's a big win for HD-DVD, espescially Universal Studios, their one of the biggest, this looks bad for the Blu-ray and most certainly won't help people want to buy a PS3 or Blu-ray player considering now that a huge chunk of movies are only for HD-DVD, obviously HD-DVD still has a way to go because Blu-ray still has more backers, but this announcement that Universal is only backing HD-DVD will no doubt make other studios consider backing both formats knowing that now if people consider Blu-ray players/movies theirs that drawback of a company like Universal not backing the Blu-Ray which most certainly makes the case for Blu-ray having all the movies a little less true
if Toshiba publicly shunned Blu-Ray... not very surprising. Let's se what happens, when by the end of 2007 ten times as many Blu-Ray players will have shipped.
Hey, cant you say the samething about UMD sales, we got a UMD player with every psp (tens of millions) but I dont see UMDs selling well. Want to know why, it's quite logical. Why would anyone buy a movie that would only play in the ps3, same for the UMD. You can argue that a standalone player is available, but thats $1000 which is more than out of the way for the average consumer. As you see sony is putting blu-ray players into the hands of people that mostly don't care for high definition media (blu-ray or hd-dvd). The way microsoft did it with the xbox 360, is the same way they did the xbox with DVD movie playback, it's also the samething that the wii is doing. Only the people interested will pay for the addition playback.
This is what I don't get (maby someone can clue me in). How is blueray able to handle to PS3 High-def games, but it is unable to handle movies in High-def? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Ofcourse Blu-Ray is capable of the same quality as HD-DVD... In fact the sound-quality of Blu-Ray is better because of the standards supported and the amount of bitrate eventually available on Blu-Ray will make better image quality possible as well. Both standards support the same codecs, except for sound where Blu-Ray is superior. The problem for now lies in, that only one Blu-Ray player is out there, and they've made a couple of mistakes on that. So now it's not really HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray, but Toshiba 1st gen vs Samsung 1st gen. In 6 months time, when only players from RCA and Toshiba are available on the HD-DVD side, and players from Samsung, Sony, Philips, Panasonic, etc. are available on the Blu-Ray side, the battlefield will have changed.
How many bluray games have you played. Sony fanboys would complain don`t knock it till you try well hell don`t praise untill you play it either. All you have seen is rendered vids and pics. Sony is notorious for doctoring images.
universal has never supported blue ray !!! they supported hd-dvd all the time ! so whats the reason of this article ? bashing !
Considering Blu-ray has 7 out 8 of the major movie studio's,this would'nt matter.Once Blu-ray wins they will support Blu-ray.PS3/Blu-ray are the future.
Your telling me universal is not big. They are one of the biggest movie producing companies in the world. Movies like Fast and the Furious, Lord of the Rings, King Kong, Miami Vice and many more. 7/8 is pretty big for sony but they are missing a huge chunk still and the ones that are exclusive to sony are the ones owned by sony. The other such as Warner Bros and Paramount are neutral and release titles on both formats.
i cant believe that this bashing post has been approved. i can also send a bashing article about the xbox360 and say: columbia shuns hd-dvd, hd-dvd is dead, and so xbox360.
what has universal studios to do with the ps3 you moron ? thats the reason i wrote my comment you fool.
The ps3 has everything to do with blue ray, after all thats want the ps3 was made for; blue ray first and gaming second.
But you see, if HD-DVD dies, the 360 is fine. If Blu-ray dies... well... sony's dead. DEAD.
achira, everything you type is bashing someone who doesn't think the same as you.
Neither HD DVD nor Blu-ray can offer movie titles from all Eight of the top movie studio's. That means buyers of one disc player may be prevented from watching a movie from a studio that doesn't support the format. Seven studios currently back Blu-ray, while three support HD DVD, and two of those also support Blu-ray. Only Universal Studios supports HD DVD exclusively.
Bluray is just unreliable and expensive, the ps3 delay is purely down to not being able to manufacture enough working drives. The ps3 sales will not significantly increase the sale of bluray movies, games players have never used their games machine as the primary player. I think HD DVD will rightly become the movie format, while bluray will sit at the heart of the playstation 3's games division.
LMAO!!Isn't Universal on the HD-DVD board of directors...or something like that?!I would have never thought they'll bash Blu-ray!*end sarcasm*
sure wannabe surfer!
We won't get to see blockbuster films like jurasick Park, the Hulk, ET, my god this is serious i thk MS have just one this war, listen up you silly MS fanboys lol this is the stupidist article ever, in case you haven't noticed i was being sarcastic at the start so hey just think of all the film companies backing Blu Ray as they will have like 100 movies out when HD-DVD has like 10 lol!
its sad people r comparing the discs but anyway i wanted to say its bad when 14/18 comments come from the fanboys and im talking all 360 ps3 bluray and hd i dont really care it all matters which 1 is better when u watch it like if u like the movie u will buy it but spending 1000 dollers or 600 for a dvd player is a big step i mean u can buy microsofts external hddvd dirve for 100 when it ships but comparing whta format is better is childish
"Also the Blu-ray cropping issues, increased noise or artifacting and darker overall color casting." why would anyone support blu-ray? its more expensive and apparently has problems. most people dont even own hd tvs, so to say the ps3 will solve the "only one blu-ray player on the market" issue is assuming people dont mind paying 600 for a ps3 and another 300 (at least) for a hdtv . so you spend 900 before you even have a game to play or a movie to watch. all that plus buying 1 game and 1 movie, you'd spend over a thousand dollars? thats the solution? and to #14 im pretty sure the ms hd drive is 200, but i might be wrong. but at least its optional and not mandatory.
when i said " spending 1000 dollers or 600 for a dvd player " i meant to say a blueray player
This is a non issue but it is funny to see the fan boys go crazy.
I dont care how you flip it. Universal Studios is important, and not having it on your movie selection would suck.
The only thing that matters is this: "in terms of image quality HD DVD came out ahead of Sony's Blu-Ray. Also the Blu-ray cropping issues, increased noise or artifacting and darker overall color casting." And that's so true. Especially when you look at the compression techniques BR is using, old and outdated, HD-DVD though and the 360 add-on is getting new compression methods. BR will loose and the PS3 will have an overexpensive non standard medium as a drive for the games... Shame that it added so much on the cost price of the console and it's not nescessary for games at all. 22 GB games are the result of lame programming, too much CGI material shown instead of real HD ingame graphics and just nescessary advertorial info for Sony to talk the BR into the gameconsole
If Microsoft had games on HD DVD and said they needed it because of Halo having 22GB of content. You and all the other 360 fanboys would be all talking sh*t about how great this game would be and that even compressed it still takes OMG 22GBs the Pshitty3 can't handle this kinda gome blah blah blah. Also don't tell me that's BS and you wouldn't because the FACT is that you would but what's really funny is that you never will be able to brag about that because your 360 games are forever limited to 9GBs of content. That may not effect you now but in a year or two when developers find out how much better games can look with more detailed content and larger levels then you'll be begging MS to make the HD DVD play games aswell. Of be forced to buy huge HD's to store downloaded games which will take an a$$ load of time and space.
No I would not and I'll explain to you why. I like my game console to do just what it says. Play games. I don't want my game console to be a videoplayer. I buy high quality standalone drives no low quality build in hardware, which is new technology with child deseases, production problems and the worst thing: NOT EVEN A STANDARD. I won't buy a HD-DVD add-on before it takes off. I am wise on that part, to save the money untill the time I think it is worth buying or cheap enough. In contrary, Sony fans are pushed to pay for something they don't need. It's not the audience that are buying BR movies on large scale. People that are movienuts buy a high quality stand alone player. Furthermore, the other point you think is nescessary, the capacity of the drive. Just look at last gen: 98% of all games did fit on a SL-DVD, which is 4,7 GB at max. Even better, almost the same percentage was about 2 to 3 GB. 1% was 3 to 4,7 GB and 1 % was DL-DVD at max. And even then, the largest game was Ralli Sport Challenge 2 with 6 GB or so. And MS even managed to put video's with those games for upcoming games so I guess easily they could cut some hundreds of MB's if nog a complete GB. The average growth of the data over 5 years in last gen came from average just under 2 GB's to at most a bit over 3 GB to max 4 GB. That's about twice the amount of data. The current launch next gen games are about a SL-DVD. Seen the past growth and added the new programming and compression methods (have you seen the 96 KB 3D game?) the BR disc seems useless even in 3 to 5 years. And when 1% of the new gen games becomes larger then one DL-DVD, is there a problem to use 2 DL-DVD's for that small percentage of games compared to the very high costs and added sales price of a gaming console? I don't think so. I'd rather have a special made GPU like the 360 has where they put the money in, then a standardized Nvidia GPU the cheap way and get an overexpensive, non standard, child desease having, non used BetaBluRay player just to fill Sony's pockets
Them issue's u have with Blu-ray are only cos of Samsung's Blu-ray had problems,they hav been sorted.
So everyones excuse is that blue ray wasn't ready and just you wait... isn't that what we've been doing and why should we have to wait if the product is already out and another coming out soon? Do we still wait? Or are we going to buy blindly becuase it's only a matter of time when this will be the winner? That seems the be the theme for most sony people.. we say sure it's not good NOW but just wait it's gonna rock 2-3 years down the road... so if it's gonna rock 2-3 years why not have sony come out with the ps3 2-3 years down the road then seeing that even the highest sony fans say it's gonna take that long
and look at all the new blu-ray players coming out on the CEDIA posts. From the electronics side, the support seems to be behind bluray. From the content side more studios support bluray. Its time to stop treating press-releases and marketing schlock as news -- these stories are simply flaimbait to drive up clicks -- and its working
There are ten big movie studios. They are collectively known as the Big Ten. Universal declared long ago they would exclusively support hd dvd. This is not news. Two of the big ten, Columbia Tristar and MGM, are already exclusively supporting bluray and the remaining seven have nonexclusively supported bluray. This is not the major blow to bluray that the article plays it off as. bluray still has wider support from the movie industry.
There are six big movie studios. They are collectively known as 'The Big Six'. Columbia Tristar and MGM were purchased by Sony. Sooo, it's little wonder that Sony exclusively supports Blu-Ray. Univeral exclusively supports Hd-Dvd. Warner & Paramount support both formats. Fox & Buena Vista are providing 'non-exclusive' support of Blu-Ray (meaning they could choose to also support Hd-Dvd at any time). http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
The reason I believe more manufactures are siding with blu-ray is marketing strategy. Toshiba is heavily underselling their machine to flood the market. Other manufactures won't be able to compete as easily thus profit wise doesn't make sense. That is why there is a huge price differences between HD-DVD player. The blu-ray market, with the exception of the PS3, is much more balanced/fair. Sure the PS3 is undercutting - but its is still a game machine first and not considered a direct threat to DVD manufactures. Most non-gamers are not going to buy a PS3 just to watch movies regardless of the cost. The initial strategy is that toshiba is using is ok but in the long run it is going to hurt them. Once the market is flooded with blu-ray players prices will continue to fall and consumers will have more options. The whole talk of proprietary being bad HD-DVD is proprietary as well. Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD have their Associations/consortiums. Not difference there. Really the only two major differences that make Blu-ray standout as the leader in HD media content is a Larger number of backers both in Hollywood and manufactures and expandability. Blu-ray has the potential to grow to larger storage sizes compared to HD-DVD making it a better recording medium once both players are established. Like it or not Blu-ray will be the standard. Even if for some odd reason HD-DVD whens the format war. Hollywood can not ignore the millions of PS3s that will ship in way larger numbers than PSP/UMD. Also Blu-ray will likely not suffer the other fate that UMD had and that was price/quality factor. People could justify paying almost full price for less than DVD quality videos. Blu-ray or even HD-DVD won't suffer from this because the quality is better than DVD.
I hope they both fail, they are both very minor improvement, and are just a money grab as they are both going to be outdated capacity-wise in about a year or 2. all of the consumer reviews I've read are telling people not to invest in either format, at least not yet, which of course slows technology as a whole. The HDDVD and Blu-ray camps were absolutely stupid for not coming together to make one unified format, and in the end it will be their downfall. As a plus for blu-ray, they have fixed some of the quality issues, so at least now when you pay double the price, you get the same quality, instead of worse...
Neither HD DVD nor Blu-ray can offer movie titles from all Eight of the top movie studio's. That means buyers of one disc player may be prevented from watching a movie from a studio that doesn't support the format. Seven studios currently back Blu-ray, while three support HD DVD, and two of those also support Blu-ray. Only Universal Studios supports HD DVD exclusively.
I like my game console to do just what it says. Play games. I don't want my game console to be a videoplayer. I buy high quality standalone drives no low quality build in hardware, which is new technology with child deseases, production problems and the worst thing: NOT EVEN A STANDARD. I won't buy a HD-DVD add-on before it takes off. I am wise on that part, to save the money untill the time I think it is worth buying or cheap enough. In contrary, Sony fans are pushed to pay for something they don't need. It's not the audience that are buying BR movies on large scale. People that are movienuts buy a high quality stand alone player. Furthermore, the other point you think is nescessary, the capacity of the drive. Just look at last gen: 98% of all games did fit on a SL-DVD, which is 4,7 GB at max. Even better, almost the same percentage was about 2 to 3 GB. 1% was 3 to 4,7 GB and 1 % was DL-DVD at max. And even then, the largest game was Ralli Sport Challenge 2 with 6 GB or so. And MS even managed to put video's with those games for upcoming games so I guess easily they could cut some hundreds of MB's if nog a complete GB. The average growth of the data over 5 years in last gen came from average just under 2 GB's to at most a bit over 3 GB to max 4 GB. That's about twice the amount of data. The current launch next gen games are about a SL-DVD. Seen the past growth and added the new programming and compression methods (have you seen the 96 KB 3D game?) the BR disc seems useless even in 3 to 5 years. And when 1% of the new gen games becomes larger then one DL-DVD, is there a problem to use 2 DL-DVD's for that small percentage of games compared to the very high costs and added sales price of a gaming console? I don't think so. I'd rather have a special made GPU like the 360 has where they put the money in, then a standardized Nvidia GPU the cheap way and get an overexpensive, non standard, child desease having, non used BetaBluRay player just to fill Sony's pockets
But all those games were played at standard definition 720*480. Even games at standard hd resolution 720p are gonna have 3 times the resolution, so I figure textures better be 3 times as good, and character models are going to need to be a lot better than they were in the past. Plus, higher fidelity audio takes up more space too. Overall, thinking that games will need the same amount of space over the next 6 years that they needed for the last 6 years is not very smart, especially considering that 360 and ps3 games are going to need to be outputting in hd. Ultimately, having more space is going to be an advantage for the ps3. The 96k game you mention is all procedurally generated. The levels are repetetive and the load times are terrible. If you want an fps were all the levels are different and all the environments are unique then you need to program them in separately, and that takes up a lot of space.
1) Oblivion fits on a 360 disc. Yeah, it's been said before, but dang. Hundreds of in-game miles to walk, hundreds of weapons and items and potions and scrolls and amulets... and enemies and thousands of quests.... 2) Smart compression over stupid space. PS3's disc drive doesn't load much faster (or may even be slower) than 360s, yet the games could theoretically be twice as large (or even higher multiples)on the disc. That adds up to loading time trying to get information off of the disc and onto the system. That also means lots of room for (especially Japanese) devs to keep putting 8hours of movies onto a disc so you watch more cinemas than you play the game. I'm perfectly fine with limiting space so devs can't do that- I'm truly sick of games having too many cinemas. 3)Last-gen games use Dolby 5.1 Surround. Sure, you could have a higher bitrate perhaps this gen... but you don't get much better than Dolby 5.1, so the sound fidelity issue is a bit moot for most titles. 4)Adding it all up, the only dev to ever truly complain about disc space on 360 were the Japanese devs behind (99nights?) who were originally worried that the game might take up to 5 Xbox 360 discs. Their same idea wound up easily fitting onto one, with seemingly no cuts, when they began to think about intelligent compression and such. Again, compression over use of space.
The MART I read your comment at 19.2 I don't need to read it again at 28 but thanks for playing
They were the sole supporter of HD-DVD anyway, so it's not that big of a surprise. They'll come back once they realize they're missing out on revenue. BTW, when will Xbots get it in their heads that Blu-ray royalties DONT go straight to Sony. There's like 15 companies besides Sony that are on the Blu-ray association, and they're entitled to just as much as Sony. Mart claims that with new compression techniques, there's no need for more disc space. What he fails to admit is that heavy compression requires heavy decompression and eats up a LOT of CPU power in the 360. The fact that even launch titles like Kameo and Project Gotham dedicated 25~33% of the system's power to decompression is evidence that not all is well in the 360 camp. Another important thing is not to look at current generation titles and assume that games won't grow, but to look at how fast data size has increased over the past ten years. Let's take a normal PS1 game, Crash 3:Warped. It took up 236 Mb out of the available 700 Mb on a CD. Not that much, and if Mart was an analyst back then he'd say "Hey, they didn't even bother to use the whole disc. We can still use CDs for the PS2 era". But with an exponential leap in data size, DVDs became vital to allowing PS2 developers to realize their true visions. Sony took a risk and used technology that was available, but unproven. 5 years later Naughty Dog released Jak 3 and used up almost an entire DVD worth of space, 4.17 GB. It uses absolutely no CG, and arguing that they just used sloppy coding would be ludicrous considering that it's more technologically advanced than almost any game out there. Within a single generation, there was a 10~17x increase in game data, and that was before the HD era. Now textures are becoming 4~8 times more detailed, and now games are using layers and layers of different textures to achieve different effects (some of which don't survive compression very well). To think that we don't need more storage capacity for games is to assume that even with HD resolution, more complex animations, more complex programming, better audio, higher polygon counts, and an exponential leap in texture quality, we only need a 2x increase in storage capacity. (single layer to dual layer dvds) Where the logic disappeared is beyond me. The fact of the matter is that they're jealous and angry that the 360 isn't going to have any of the benefits that Blu-ray gives to the PS3. When you're only paying $100 more than the competition to get the bonus functionality of a $1000+ machine, that's pretty awesome. And it makes the competition pretty hateful and nervous.
Heavy compression is also lossy, as in data on images, textures, audio, etc. gets lost. As in you lose quality. There are still some quality lossless compression algorithms but they don't achieve the 85-95% compression that can be achieved with lossy data compression
over no compression any day each city in gotham use over 1gig of textures without the compression you would loss most of the detail that is streamed from the memory and the disk. If you use less compression the smaller and less detailed the game envirionments will become. and just to prove my point the reason HD-DVD is currently much better than blue-ray because it uses better and higher compression so it has a higher bit rate for the images.
I didn't say no compression. I just said lossless was preferable to lossy compression, especially in hd. And the bluray releases have been poor so far because of their reliance on the mpeg2 codec. If they used a better lossy compression codec like vc1 or a lossless compression codec like h.264/mpeg-4 avc then they would be on equal footing with the current hddvd releases except with better audio. Studios like Warner have already committed to using the vc1 codec so the change in quality should be very noticeable soon.
texture compression is a reality for all video games from pc to console to handheld for 2 major reasons. 1. RAM - GPUs are severly limited by volatile storage space. The ps3 has 256MB dedicated video memory. Do you really think they are going to be using 30MB uncompressed textures because compression is lossy? 2. Bandwidth - a typical level design uses dozens of textures. If those textures exceed the available video ram then you are going to run into bandwidth issues faster than you can say chronic framerate stutter. All GPUs for the last several years have embraced compressed texture philosophy from the ground up. Seriously, dumbest argument ever.
You need to understand that your perspective isn't indicative of the "MASS" Majority of consumers. Blu ray and the PS3 have seperated itself from the mainstream in every way. First and foremost pricing. The blu ray and the ps3 are two "OVER PRICED" high tech gadgets that will never catch on "WITH THE MAIN STREAM" consumers. I understand you guys are hopeful with sony and its uncharttered waters....but common sense and a good sense of reality would tell you that people as a whole will not choose blu ray. And gamers as a whole will not pay over half a grand for a video game console. Thats why the PC video game market suffers from Lowly game sales. Sure PC gamers can brag about certain apspects of their games. But the PC game market is for elitest and not the average gamer. Thats the market the ps3 is now going after. Remember, its not a console, its a computer. Lots of Laughs. It wouldn't matter if "EVERY" movies studio supported blu ray. It means absolutely nothing if the consumers don't support it. Movie studio support will go with the format the consumers are supporting. And right now HD dvd is being chosen 4 to 1 over blu ray. With movies sales and Units sold. And every Poll shows that consumers are absolutely not interested in Blu ray. Get over it SONY supporters. Sony made a major mistake. It happens. Keep in mind DJ, you are interested in slightly higher disc capacity. Most consumers are interested in Quality/Price. With price being 1st in most consumers minds. Thats why Walmart is so popular right now. Is it really that hard for Sony fans to accept? Its not the end of the world. You still get your console of choice for over half grand. You still get GT HD and Metal Gear games. Sony fans seem to think that having more movie studio support matters. It don't. All that matters is HD Dvd in the media is looking better than blu ray and consumers are aware of it. ALl that matters is you can buy a hd dvd player for 399 now. All that matters is 60 of the top 100 movies are coming to HD dvd. Top selling movies is more important than studio support. Get the movies the consumers want to watch released. Universal is "HUGE". I will end this with a quote from the article. And don't be surprised when other companies start to follow suit. Today Craig Kornblau (president of Universal Studios home entertainment) stated that the HD DVD will be the 'hands-down' winner in the next-gen DVD wars. He went on to say the following - "Look at the blogs, look at the reviews by the early adopters and even look at the mainstream media – HD DVD has maintained its first-to-market advantage and delivered on the promises of providing the best high definition image and sound quality at the best value for consumers today,"
But it's well known that merchandise selection quality directly affects consumers' decisions. When comparing a few HD-dvd titles from one distributor to a huge amount of Blu-ray titles from a wide range of distributors, it's obvious what consumers are going to choose. It's also good to see what you couldn't refute any of my arguments and had to resort to saying that "The blu ray and the ps3 are two 'OVER PRICED' high tech gadgets that will never catch on 'WITH THE MAIN STREAM' consumers." But if Blu-ray offers a significantly greater selection of titles with more variety, then why wouldn't main-stream consumers catch on? In the grand scheme of things, the PS3 only costs as much as two iPods or two digital cameras. Besides most people initially will be purchasing it for games. They have the embedded choice of using its Movie capabilities whenever they feel it to be appropriate. And once consumers see the improvement in visual quality (should they have an HDTV) there's no stopping them from purchasing what they want.
I'm not a fanboy, and both HD-DVD and Blue Ray are good technologies. But some of you who are bashing Blue Ray as being dead appear to be trapped in your own short-sighted vision of the future and assume that Blue Ray's problems today are written in stone for all eternity. Be serius. Both its price and its encoding standard are short-term problems that CAN be fixed later on. What'll happen to HD-DVD when Blue Ray improves? That's what I call "Long-Term Thinking". Long-term-wise, Blue Ray is still a good product.
So far (I know I'm going to be buried for this comment) the blu-ray supports on this page make much better sense than the hd-dvd ones. At least on the movie front. Anyone who has been following hd-dvd even somewhat closely knows that this isn't "news". But at least it spurs a good debate. And one more thing, "TheMart" you comments come off like a blind fanboy, I hope everyone knows that not every Xbox 360 supporter is this way. DJ & TheThinker, very nice comments.
DJ....one thing you seem to forget. Every movies studio supports "DVD" so therefore people can buy any movie thats not supported on HD dvd on DVD and play it on their HD dvd player with superior upscalling that according to many reviews, rivals blu ray movies. Lots of Laughs. So HD dvd supporters will never "NOT" be able to watch "ANY" movie. And just because blu ray has more movie studio support absolutely doesn't make the average consumer say to themselves..."wow, that movie is only on blu ray, I have to buy a 1000 dollar blu ray player now." Ha ha ha ha. Not going to happen fellas. They will just buy it on DVD mastered in HD and play it on their HD dvd player. Its important to note that Most of the top 100 movies support HD dvd. Its about giving the consumers the movies they want to watch. Please DJ, you really don't understand how the consumer market works? Sony can't make people accept blu ray. Every Poll shows people catagorically do not want blu ray movies. Get over it guys. P.S. I do understand why you "hope" blu ray succeeds. I used to be the same way with the previous formatts that failed. I would try to convince all my friends why it was superior to the norm. But, in the end, I realized it wasn't about being simply the best. Most consumers just really don't care. They want an affordable price first and foremost...then quality. Not the other way around. You'll see. I've been around long enough to see how these things play out. I had over 100 Laser discs collected and I tried to convince everyone to get into it. But eveyone stuck with VHS untill DVD came out, cheaper and smaller than the Laser discs. People went with the cheaper option. And so on and so on. In order for "MOST" people to adopt a format it has to be affordable for everyone. Not just the small few. You have to understand that. Its simple economics buddy. First to 200 dollars will win. "PERIOD". And with HD dvd including the hugely poplular and accepted "DVD" title in its name. That gives it a huge edge with Casual Consumers. The next step in DVD. But, I do relate to you and your hopes for blu ray. No one can argue it holds more data. But Most can argue, Who really cares? Does Grandma Sue? Does Joe Smoe? NOPE. They want price/quality. And they both keep being able to hold more and more data, so thats a non issue really for "MOST" consumers. And to deathtok ..... HD dvd players can be found right now for 399. I would expect the prices to continually get more and more affordable. Secondly....over 10 million consumers will have a 360 by the end of the year to ps3's one million or so. They will also have an option at 150 to 200 to get the HD dvd add on. Couple that with the HD dvd players already sold at 4 to 1 over blu ray. And you have major market penetration. Another thing to note. When a consumer buys a ps3. You have no clue if they will every buy a blu ray movie. But when a consumer buys a stand alone HD dvd player or the HD dvd add on for the 360, you absolutely know they intend to buy hd dvd's. Nice little fact to keep in mind.
Interesting point about the HD DVD add-on. The keyword being add-on. They have all been notoriously bad sellers in the past. Famicon (NES) disk system, 32x, Sega CD, the ill-conceived N64 disk drive. Your point about HD DVD players getting cheaper... also applies to Blu-ray! With the release of the PS3 the cheapest Blu-ray player becomes $499 with the stand-alones soon following suit and eventually both will come to a point where DVD players are now. If someone buys a PS3 and isn't buying Blu-ray media you can also make a safe bet that they're not buying HD DVD either. Again it's hard to believe that people will purchase one player (even if for games) only to purchase HD DVD for the additional cost. 4:1? http://www.homemediaretaili... This certainly paints an interesting picture.
This article paints the picture of Universal as just making this decision. They haven't supported Blu-ray one bit though. The fact is, Blu-ray is a good product. The article skews early reviews without bringing up the recent ones where companies like Warner have actually opted to use the VC-1 codec. The results are in: HD DVD and Blu-ray are on a level field visually. The extra space in Blu-ray will continue to give them advantage for audio and bonus content. Sony's market penetration with the Playstation 3 will be important. They will sell lots of units despite criticisms. If they can actually deliver 6 million by next March then that is 6 million Blu-ray players, more than HD DVD has sold and likely 6 million people who will not spend an additional $499 for an HD DVD player.
Allot of PS3 fan boys are saying that compression is causing a power sink on over all performance of the 360. I find that hard to believe. So I want a link that proves this as a fact.
Here's an official Microsoft document that states on pages 17 and 18 how the 3 cores were used in Project Gotham 3 and Kameo. Anyone who knows how CPUs work knows that if you have a resource intensive thread on a dual-threaded core, the secondary thread suffers performance-wise. This document actually warns developers from putting two intensive threads on the same core. http://download.microsoft.c... Enjoy. It totally debunks rumors that launch titles only used 'one core'.
LINK, http://www.youtube.com/watc... Now don't get me wrong, it's gonna be years before a winner is determinable so I'm not saying blu-ray will fail. Just that it's owner, Sony, is very desperate to finally have one of it's formats win.
The Blu-ray association is controlled by the following board of directors: Apple Dell HP Hitachi LG Mitsubishi Electric Panasonic Pioneer Philips Samsung Sharp Sony Sun Microsystems TDK Thomson Twentieth Century Fox Walt Disney Warner Bros. ---------------------------- And it doesn't stop there: http://www.blu-raydisc.com/...
"P.S. I do understand why you "hope" blu ray succeeds. I used to be the same way with the previous formatts that failed. I would try to convince all my friends why it was superior to the norm. But, in the end, I realized it wasn't about being simply the best." The key sentence in that blabber was "I used to be the same way with the previous formatts that failed. I would try to convince all my friends why it was superior to the norm." My question for Real Deal is what is so different now? Your STILL "TRYING" to convince people that 360/MS/HD DVD is better than the competition...... Look in the mirror and ask yourself what is wrong with console/company alligence!! In the end your only hurting those true gamers that are ignorant enough to believe you! If your too closed-minded to see that all three platforms will have great games and to immature to know whatever console is better depends mostly on YOUR POINT OF VIEW than I feel sorry for you and anyone you do "convince". In the end those are the gamers that will lose out the most!! Just think of this Generation would have become "if" MS DID use HD DVD!! I think that when MS choose to exclude HD DVD it really killed the potential it had. Honestly MS would have had a HUGE edge with millions of HD DVD drive's installed inside homes but because they choose to go on the "add-on" route it killed any momentum HD DVD "could" have had!! Seriously people who have HDTV's are really limited to HD content and when these gamers go to get a console what do you think they will choose? 360 DVD drive with "add-on" HD DVD drive that has no games or... PS3 internal Bluray drive, that plays movies and games right of the box. ask yourself what sounds logical to HDTV owners and fututre owners? Honestly I just don't see where HD DVD has an advantage against Blu Ray. It seems even MS hasn't given it the proper support and I see no way it's going to be able to battle with PS3 because PS3 will equal millions of units in homes for the same price of a stand alone HD DVD player...... It may sound biased but it's simply THE TRUTH
You missed the point. I have grown up and realize there is more to what makes a succesful format than a few tech gimmicks....Lots of Laughs. In the past I did like you, I supported the format that had a few extra perks. Not realizing that "MOST" people don't care about that. Only the tech heads. Understand yet? ha ha ha. Probably not. because you are one dimensional and dillusional. I supported all the formats that Sony has pushed in the past. And every one of them failed miserably. Not this time buddy. I won't follow the same path. I have done more research not only from the tech perspective but the buyer perspective. HD dvd will win out over blu ray. 1. Costs....Movies and players are much less with HD dvd. 2. Name recognition....DVD is world wide. Adding the HD to it makes it much easier to accept as the next gen for "Most" consumers. 3. 60 of the top 100 movies support HD dvd. And the 40 that don't....Well, you can still enjoy them on regular dvd upscalled on your HD dvd player. 4. The quality of the picture/sound thus far is much better on HD dvd. 5. All polls show people just aren't intested in Blu ray movies as a whole. So think about this..... Who decides who wins the format war? Consumers? Big Companys? And will the big companies follow what the consumers want and accept? I'm just thankful HD dvd is an option. Imagine if only blu ray existed. That would suck. We would all have to buy a ps3 or a 1000 dollar blu ray player just to enjoy high def movies. Its all about consumers. And years ago...I didn' realize that. I thought it was all about having the latest greatest regardless of the price. Get it?
Very good news indeed especially since HD-DVD players are better quality than blu-ray players plus their 500 dollars cheaper. I see it like this: HD-dvd wins = bad for sony Hd-dvd and blu-ray fail= bad for sony Hd-dvd and blu-ray remain at a stand off= bad for sony Blu-ray wins= good for sony Hmm 3 out of 4 are bad for sony which also means 3 out of 4 are good for microsoft and believe me that last one is looking less likely everyday. Thats the truth. PS- Heres the million dollar question for the sony fanboys: Why is it that blu-ray players cost 500 dollars more than hd-dvd players but hd-dvd players show movies in better quality. Hmm
Why didn't Microsoft have the balls to fully support it in the first place. MS acted like a wussy and preferred to have a slight head-start instead of choosing to invest in a next-gen media format the help alleviate the space constraints that 360 developers are now suffering. If their actions truly were in the best interests of consumers, there would be two next-gen consoles using the Blu-ray format. Forcing superior technology onto us is fine considering all the benefits that it brings to both consumers, developers, and publishers alike.
u said it. i agree dude. these sony only fans don't have a clue. sony made some major mistakes all the way around this time. and blu ray is sony's format. everyone knows that.
1.)You can't tell/convince me the sky is "green"!! " Probably not. because you are one dimensional and dillusional" Funny you should say that because I'm not the one blinded by company/console alligence, and I'm definetly not the one trying so hard to convince everyone what is best or what they should buy! 2.) "In the past I did like you, I supported the format that had a few extra perks. Not realizing that "MOST" people don't care about that. Only the tech heads. Understand yet?" First you never were like me because I defiently don't support "one" company (the fact that I own a 360 proves that!). And secondly your ignorant to believe that "MOST" people don't care about a few extra perks!! for example *People pay to ride first class for the perks vs. riding coach which offer "less" perks *People buy Lexus for the extra perks vs. buying a Chevy Malibu which offers less perks *People buy a California King size bedfor the "perks" vs. buying the queen which offers less perks!! Just a few examples to show you just how stupid that statement really is!! 3.) "Only the tech heads." Yeah it takes a true "Tech Head" to know one system offers Wifi, larger Harddrive, 1080p resoulution and Blu Ray qualitly in movies and GAMES, ect ect. Your basically saying that the more than half of the people interested in Video games wouldn't/couldn't/don't understand that? Ridiculous statement Real Deal!! 4.) "I have done more research not only from the tech perspective but the buyer perspective. HD dvd will win out over blu ray" Umm so the research you have done amounts to HD DVD winning the format war? I would be laughing but coming from you I know your actually serious. Well I only need to ask you one question since you KNOW that HD DVD will win........ HOW THE HELL ARE THEY GOING TO SELL AS MANY HD DVD ADD-ONS AND STAND ALONE PLAYERS AS PS3's? especially considering that HD DVD stand alone players cost the same as PS3 and offer considerably less value!!! HOW CAN HD DVD MATCH PS3 UNIT FOR UNIT, I would be surprises if they can even match PS3 4:1!! ----------------------------- ---------------- "1. Costs....Movies and players are much less with HD dvd." YEAH players are much less than a PS3...... Movies are "much" less too! I would love to see you compare a PS3 and HD DVD stand alone player value for value. 2. "Name recognition....DVD is world wide. Adding the HD to it makes it much easier to accept as the next gen for "Most" consumers." Yeah and PS1,2,3, are just unrecognizable worldwide....... Don't you remeber PS2 gave a huge help to DVD during it's early stages.... 3. "60 of the top 100 movies support HD dvd. And the 40 that don't....Well, you can still enjoy them on regular dvd upscalled on your HD dvd player." I'm alittle confused about the "100 top movies" what exactly do you mean? It's a fact that Blu-ray has 7 out 8 of the major movie studio's on board!! 4. "The quality of the picture/sound thus far is much better on HD dvd" For now........... on the picture but the sound is better on Blu Ray 5. All polls show people just aren't intested in Blu ray movies as a whole. What polls, all polls can be swayed and are highly unaccurate. I'm sure that your so called polls don't include those customers who will be buying PS3's..... and finally you death sentence "I'm just thankful HD dvd is an option. Imagine if only blu ray existed. That would suck" Fact is HD DVD has no-life and therefore it's utterly dead!! No support and nothing huge (like 360) to really make buyers wanna go out and get one right away. PS3 being equipped with a Blu ray player is just to Huge of a strong point for HD DVD to overcome!!!
So what I got from what I read and saw was. If you improperly allocate the threads you will get a performance cut. I fond nothing that compressing the media for mat or the DVD will cause a power sink. You guys are looking for anything to make the 360 look bad and it is dumb for you and any one else to use half-truths to prove a point. Yes they did show an example of Kameo using one thread per core. Which dose prove that rumor false that they only used one core fine. I never beloved that any way. But you know what that proves right. They have 3 threads not in use and when they are we are in for some great games. When Microsoft speaks of compression they are not talking about program compression they are talking about media compression. For example http://vision.pcvsconsole.c... Compression will not cause a power sink and that is a sorry lie. Peace