Are core gamers simply being a bit elitist, stuck in the past, or do they have valid complaints about certain games being dumbed down to suit a wider audience?
I'm not sure I would agree with the "annoyingly" sentiment but the way I see it is games primarily have to sell well for developers to make more of them. If games cater towards niche markets only then as a business they could fail to reap the profits required to continue. I'll agree some game series have been well butchered, but I also accept that this is simply a matter of natural progression, no matter how much it hurts inside.
Yeah, try beating MGS4 on Boss Extreme, under 5 hours, less than 25 saves, no alerts, no recovery items and no kills. Lets see if MGS4 was really dumbed down. The octocamo (they misspelled it >.>) Really doesn't get you very far if you dont know how to use it. Leave it to msxbox-world to make retarded articles like this.
Came here to post This.
lol you could do that with any game. Limiting yourself of the games features and abilities to make it more of a challenge doesn't mean the game wasn't dumbed down. Lets take COD for example, the biggest dumbed down game of all. Try beating COD MW3 on Veteran, under 6 hours, without dying, no grenades, and pistols only. That doesn't magically transform the game into "hardcore" .
TRY PLAYING SPLINTER CELL CONVICTION ON DA HIGHEST DIFFICULTY WITHOUT BEING CAUGHT WHEN POSSIBLE, IT'S TOTALLY NOT DUMBED DOWN BRO. /sarcasm Shooting things up was by far the easier route in MGS4. Why? Because the amount of enemies you're killing allows you to get a lot of cash for the upgrades, ammo, and guns. Which is why it's highly recommended to play through it at least once or twice before attempting the Big Boss Emblem, and stock up on the stuff you need. Cause an Alert in MGS4, and it's far easier to kill everyone plus reinforcements instead of hiding. I would know because I had the emblem and completed the game itself over 10 times. In other MGS games, you couldn't just play all out action and survive. You had the means to live if you got an alert, but your first course of action would be to kill the enemies currently attacking you and try to break the alert. In MGS4, you can fend off tons of enemies. Nearly every act can be played killing everyone, without any problem at all. It wasn't viable to do that in Big Shell, or the mountain base in MGS3.
Still 50% of end game there is only shooting
In MGS3 really? I have stealthed my way through and I have also gone through and killed everyone I encountered. All you need to do is use the other mechanics which the game provides and playing frontal assault isn't that difficult in MGS3. Nothing like shooting The End in his wheel chair. There are plenty of things you can do if you are quick that will reduce the problems you encounter later. I found obtaining the Big Boss Emblem in MGS4, and if you are going to discuss the difficulty at least be able to correctly name it and understand the difference between Big Boss Extreme and the Big Boss Emblem...much more challenging. Particularly so when you reach the Missouri. Remember, one feature is a difficulty setting (Big Boss Extreme) and one is the emblem (Big Boss Emblem) you receive for beating the game on that difficulty (Big Boss Extreme) while adhering to certain restrictions. So if you are going to discuss and debate it at least take the time to understand what you are claiming to do. There are numerous places in the game that make obtaining the Big Boss Emblem far more challenging than most titles. For example, in the motorcycle sequence you get shot at ...a lot. And considering 2 shots can kill you well, do the math. No continues, no health items, that means no rations, noodles, or Regain, no alerts, no kills, and you can't use special items. And you have to beat the Game on Big Boss Extreme to get the Big Boss Emblem. This game is a landmark achievement and the best game I have played to this day. A wonderful crowing achievement to 20 years of great game making. It hardly deserves to be on this list, if for no other reason than the intricacy of the story itself. The author is likely one of those Fast Forward types. Or else he despises the first requirement necessary to play the game...buy a PS3. After all, this is another attack on the PS3 and it's games by a site known for such worthless writing. Do not forget to rate the site accordingly at the top by clicking the link beneath "Read full story>>".
This reply right here....A+
MGS4 is still far easier and simpler than MGS-MGS3.
SOCOM should be at the top of the list. I personally really liked RSV 1&2, and while I used to play Ghost Recon: Jungle Storm online on my PS2 back when it came out which was one of my favorite games last generation, GRAW2 on PS3 was a really good game which was the closest thing to a real SOCOM game that actually worked good(SOCOM: Confrontation was painful for the first year and a half). MGS4 wasn't dumbed down at all, unless you call the 360 degree camera and better graphics dumbed down....mind you, this is MSXbox World we are talking about, and of course they always take a jab at the best PS3 exclusives whenever they can.
"After all, this is another attack on the PS3 and it's games by a site known for such worthless writing." The list contains other games, including a game that isn't on the PS3. Yet, because one of the games on the list was a PS3 exclusive, the site is trying to attack the PS3? O.o
Crap article. Morganfell is absolutely right. I had a blast aquiring the BBE. But: the best thing is to get all emblems, start a new game, and listen to "Snake Eater" on your ipod. Never got a better reward in a game. Goose bumps guaranteed!
The title of the article, along with the MGS4 pic, assures that I won't give the site a hit. Whatever other titles are on their list, MGS4 shouldn't be.
"Whilst we're on the subject of Metal Gear, you had to beat the games to unlock the stealth camo in past Metal Gear Solid games, MGS 4 simply gave you Otocamo from the offset, which is kind of like cheating really. You can't get more dumbed down than that." wow....retard
Wow, you are basically setting your own rules to go by in order to make it difficult. MGS4 was incredibly easy compared to the first MGS. I loved the game and beat it at least 3 times. However, the fact you could get ammo/weapons at any time really dumbed the game down. Also, enemy AI was not the best. If a soldier sees a fellow soldier drop from a sniper shot, he shouldnt run over to the body and kneel at it wondering what happened. I believe I sniped over 50 people before getting bored one day doing this (for no reason, just to see how many I could get) Otherwise its an amazing game with a fantastic story. But it was a bit too easy and dumbed down.
"For example, in the motorcycle sequence you get shot at..." I remember doing that part while trying to get the BB emblem. To this day i dont even know how i managed to pass that part of the game or how my controller survived to tell the story... if you know what i mean...
MGS4 on Boss Extreme is only 5 hours?
Getting Big Boss emblem isn't even that difficult if you don't use a fresh save. Starting on a naked run? Yeah, that's a different story. I have to agree though. Stealth and careful approach doesn't have near the emphasis it did in previous titles. Yeah, you still *can* do those things, but it's more of a secondary choice to killing/tranqing everyone and waltzing through. Doesn't make it bad, but it doesn't make it very challenging.
@xPhear I did that without trying, thats considered dumbed down. Its like saying MGS4 on easy was...easy...so its dumbed down, its not. On normal and up, its harder than other games. COD on hard is still not hard, thats dumbed down. When other FPS have to get rid of weight on guns or other mechanics because its too hard for COD players, thats dumbed down. MGS4 is not dumbed down....Just because basic mechanics are updated and easier to use like they were originally intended doesn't make it dumbed down....
Agree! I think this article is provoking for the sense of being provoking. Fair enough, but saying MGS is dumbed down is a long shot. I'd say he's only scratched the surface of MGS4, which is sort of contrary to what the article is about. Core gaming my ass. Also, you can't do whatever you wan't in Elder Scrolls V for game design reasons, restrictions to further story and plot has nothing to do with the game being dumbed down. Fact is that playing MGS without stealth has always been a possibility, but I don't think stealth has ever been as satisfying alternative as in the later installments. In MGS1 you try to avoid people's line of sight. In MGS3 and 4 you need camouflage, right choice of path, far more equipment and to fool the opponents sight, hearing and even nose! EVEN NOSE!
LOL @ an Xbox site remarking on a game that isn't on Xbox. Perhaps if you tried to beat the game with no alerts and no kills (a pretty basic task for devoted MGS fans), then you might not think it's so easy. Add in any various restrictions such as CQC only, beat in under 6 hours, etc and you have quite a challenging game.
Like others have said, though, you could do that with many games.. Play Skyrim with no healing what so ever, using only a sword and no armor. Play CoD; beat it under 6 hours, never killing an enemy with a same weapon. Play NBA with only one player making every point, and from the 3 point line. Play Madden using only the QB running the ball, blitz everyone on defense. Because you can make the game harder on yourself, doesn't make it harder.
@ KaBaW Except that - unlike the games you mentioned - MGS4 actually gives you rewards for doing such things. Or hey, just play the game on Boss Extreme. Forget the extras. See how "dumbed down" that is.
so because they are an xbox site they can't play games on other platforms? Perhaps they are more "dedicated to gaming" than you think.
could be fine and genuine , if said site wasnt accustomed to those weird weird list and articles . LIke say "we dont really need that XXX exclusive game on ps3" . To much competition trashing and biased listing , to be considered even remotely honest when talking about /other consoles
Considering they have a well documented history of pumping out sensationalist slag, I'm less inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Msxboxworld and similarily named Planetxbox360 were two of the more antagonistic sites 'round here in 2011.
Resident Evil should be on this list.
Dumbed down is hardly what you could call RE. It just...switched genre.
RedDeadDestroyer, AmazingBrain is right: RE5 was really dumbed down for the CoD kiddies. It was identical to Resident Evil 4 in gameplay (how could it switch genres if it's built ontop of the EXACT same mechanics?) they just made RE5 so freaking easy and predictable it was laughable. In fact, they didn't change anything from RE4 except for the menus and quick-switching and made it where there were no surprises just waves after waves of baddies to shoot. It doesn't get anymore dumb-downed then that. Switching genres, as you put it, would be Fallout 2 to Fallout 3...it went from a turn-based strategy RPG to a real-time action RPG. However, Fallout 2 to Fallout 3, despite switching genres WAS NOT as dumbed-down as Resident Evil 4 to Resident Evil 5.
Who said anything about Resident Evil 5? Looks like you've never played a Resident Evil game other than 4 or 5.
@Bloodraid Dude, I've been playing Resident Evil since the original debuted on PC way back in 1997. A friend of mine brought over the demo from his Ultra Gamer magazine, remember that? And NO, RE did not switch genres it switched camera angles. That hardly counts as switching genres. It was still horror-survival. Instead of moving around with that fixed camera view (which obscured a lot of the action most times) you were simply given a new perspective in which to view the action but everything else stayed exactly the same: from item use to not being able to move while firing weapons. Again, other than the camera everything about RE stayed exactly the same. Apparently you, sir, are the one who has not played the other RE games.
It only switched camera angles? Really? > Currency didn't exist in the older games. > Enemies dropping items and ammunition, encouraging people to kill instead of survive > Buying Items and Weapons from Shops instead of finding them throughout the game. > Upgrading weapons with currency instead of parts. > Set in remote parts of Africa, and not an urban environment. > Replaced save points with a stupid linear checkpoint system. Face it, you're wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.
I agree with this article completely.
What do they mean MGS4 is dumbed down? Try beat that game while working the controller with your penis. It might be a bit more difficult for women. If they think that comment is sexist, they must have a penis. /sarcasm
I'm not sure as to whether it's humorous or just plain depressing that three of the five listed titles are developed by Ubisoft. Probably the latter.
We all know cod should be number one-____-.
I'm in agreement with Raiden, but the author needs to factor in the difficulty you played the game on. I know I always enjoyed each of the Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games playing on realistic difficulty (I think that is what it was called). It offered a more strategic aspect of the game where you didn't just run and gun. Especially the t-hunts...great fun and memories with friends trying to finish them. Splinter Cell has been a huge disappointment this generation and is nothing like it use to be. While they have still been enjoyable the experience just isn't the same.
LOL two commenters just below you say the exact opposite. You must be over 18 and they must be under 18. The only people who actually liked SC: Conviction were those who didn't really dig stealth-action games in the first place. If you go from playing the best in the series (Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory) to playing the newest in the series (Splinter Cell: Conviction) you'll find that you can breeze through Conviction with ease but you'll end up throwing the controller at the wall in Chaos Theory. The AI is more unrelenting and you don't have all the hand-holding going on in older Splinter Cell games. While a lot of people will say "Yeah just put it on the EXTREME difficulty setting" they're missing the point that it's still hand-holding. Just like, in CoD you'll always have regenerating health and quick-scoping. It's just part of the game's mechanics to make it easier and more casual friendly...just like in Conviction Sam didn't even have to hide the bodies anymore and they completely removed the feature. Doesn't matter what difficulty setting you have on the lack of certain mechanics and features instantly makes it more casual/easier than previous iterations.
sam doesnt work for the gov so no need to hide bodies!!! I hated the hide bodies in the old SC. It was more of a time waster than anything else
I don`t know what i want to say it would probably be racist so http://www.channel4.com/ass...
"The only people who actually liked SC: Conviction were those who didn't really dig stealth-action games in the first place." Um, yeah, no. I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Why? Because I've beaten every Theif game, Every Splinter Cell game, and I guess even every MGS game, but I still really liked Conviction. Was it fit for Splinter Cell? Of course not, but that doesn't change that it was a pretty fun game, at least in my opinion.
Over 18...yep. When I was talking about harder difficulties I just meant for R6 and GRAW. Those were very unforgiving and in no way did they hold your hand. No health regen....in r6 we usually went with a couple shield guys, a sniper, and someone with an AR or SMG for t-hunts and GRAW on realistic was TOUGH trying to complete the levels with objectives met (especially the one with the air field). However you are 100% right with Conviction...the difficulty didn't change the game that much.
I enjoyed SC Conviction, was certainly refreshing, and while the old stealth elements are missing it was still a very good game in terms of single-player and I was more happy to see that the co-op from Chaos Theory was expanded upon. So long as developers keep achievements and trophies associated with higher difficulties in their games, there's still room for that hardcore bit of us to break through.
I enjoyed Conviction as well. It mat not of been a traditional SC game but it was well made. I enjoyed punching a guys head through a sink as well.
Octocamo didn't really dumb down MGS4... because it's not immediate and, unless you're motionless, it's not like it makes you invisble... In fact, it's just a replacement for the Camo menu from MGS3.... Rising Revengence doesn't dumb down the series, it's not part of it... gameplay is too different.
people are moronic to keep saying that rising is dumbing down the series and etc when its an Action game and is a spin off, thats like saying that the 2 MGS card games changed the series lol. and yeah i dont see how octo camo made anything dumbed down, it wasn't unbalanced and it fit well with the story and progression of tech in the world
Yeah seriously, you had to stay motionless for 3 seconds before the octocamo kicks in. And i agree with you on mgs3, it wouldnt make sense to put mgs3s camo system on a game thats set in 2014 -_-
I can't believe Rising is getting so much hate (even though I was worried when I learned that Platinum was taking it over and I have not been thoroughly impressed with them) Go back in time for those who played Vr missions on the Ps1. You can't sit there and honestly tell me that when you unlocked the Grey Fox missions, that you didn't want a game like that. Now we have one, and people want to bash it?......wtf Also I used the costumes for each mission except 4and5, which didn't have a costume like 123 did. Running around with young snake face with rebel uniform in south america was like Mgs3 in hd for me. So no it was not dumbed down.
I disagree, the special missions showed us that a Ninja game could work, if it's still stealth focused and actually like a ninja... Revengence shows that Devil May Cry and Bayonetta with Metal Gear characters is an odd solution to the problem of why the game didn't exist.
Well that's what I was getting at when I mentioned Platinum games. If Kojima was over it from start to finish it would be that way. Its still could be stealth involved. We haven't seen everything so Im not going to outright hate it until I see a final product. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my first post. +bubs for the mature reply.
msxboxworld just keeps getting more and more pathetic.
Nah, they pretty much have it spot on. Although the main reason MGS4 was slightly dumbed down was Drebin, not the octocamo. Besides that I'd like to see people try to defend how exactly the other games weren't dumbed down because you can't. At best you'll give a long winded answer as to why you still LIKE them regardless, which is irrelevant to this post. I love mgs4, that doesn't mean I'm going to get my panties in a wad about this article...
If you're playing MGS4 on Boss extreme, you wouldn't be able to purchase rounds for your tranquilizer pistol and sniper rifle.
Why? Because they say something negative about a ps3 exclusive? How dare them
I guess their journalists sometimes comes here and read some of the amazing comments :)
actually i agree on most of it and stop trying look cool and awesome by saying you hate them
Hate? I don't hate them
In mgs you had to hide using the environment in mgs4 you become the environment which changed the raw nature of escape. To me it made sneaking much easiet
Metal gear solid 4 wasn't really dumbed down, it just offered the player different ways to play the game. I don't see any harm in that. I do agree with the elder scrolls criticisms, though. I think they've taken a lot of options away in oblivion and even skyrim, which players really liked about morrowind. Spells like water walking, chameleon, super jump (as I like to call it), and open lock spells didn't make it into skyrim, and I'm not sure why. I liked skyrim, but I don't see any reason why they had to take out all these super cool spells that made previous games so good.
When they finally release the Creation Kit for PC, I know what I'll be making.
switch to pc for hardcore gaming, or maybe play dark souls. Console gaming is aimed at casual gamers who couldnt be bothered with pc.
There are plenty of hardcore games on consoles. Console gaming is aimed at people who like the luxury of their sofa while they play games. It's a matter of preference rather than how intense their gaming habits are.
I play pc games from my sofa, and some console games. Console games are usually not very complex these days. There are no games like arma 2, shogun 2, starcraft 2, anno 2070, stalker,etc... and when they try to make these types of games on console they are huge failures sales wise.
Agreed Hardcore games are appreciated much more on PC. Especially rogue likes and games that require thought such as starcraft or total war.
Lol starcraft isn't a hardcore game at all so idk why you are riding on about that. They aren't on consoles because it sucks trying to control an rts with a controller not because its too hardcore for console players.
dont you get tired of those contrived list of otherwise great games ? There are likewise other kind of complex games on consoles . So what if there are rts on pc , consoles ent the srpg way instead , among other things . It's just obviously another type of gaming and would be boring otherwise , if indeed both were all the time the same only oconsoles with low resolutions and details . The games you listed arent there , and for the most part shouldnt be , but doesnt mean those are the only "hardcore" and complex games of existence . It's even a bit a disservice , it litterally would just mean that your "oh so complex games" are only that way because of the controllers used by default . PS : I'd also very much avoid adding anything blizzard there , when their motto is basically to simplify gameplay as much as possible , staying true to the "easy of control , difficult to master" mantras , that even befits companies like Nintendo
Dark Souls is the answer.
I gave you bubbles because you listed complex, seriously hardcore games that aren't on consoles and mentioned that consoles don't have any games equivalent to it and you're right. Not one person who disagreed with you could name A SINGLE GAME that compared to your list in complexity and difficulty. I'll take it one step further: Console games today are made for people with low attention spans and low intelligence quotas. Remember back when there were games on consoles like Generations Lost, Fade to Black and No Escape? You had no hand-holding and those games were freaking hard. They were about as hard as any game on PC. I think during the PS2/Xbox era the casual-core trend started, as there were some rare gems that could be considered core on those systems (i.e., Shadow of the Colossus, Ghost Recon 2, Morrowind, MGS2, etc., etc.) But I can't think of one game this generation that compares to those truly hardcore games of year's past. Of course, if anyone knows of such a game that doesn't have hand-holding or was designed for casuals (i.e., regenerating health, idiot A.I., linear point-to-point objectives) please let me know what that game is. EDIT: Supposedly Dark Souls is coming to PC, but is there or are there other console exclusives that are truly hardcore?
Demons Souls :D