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Does Fallout NV PS3 lag explain Skyrim issues?

EG: In our weekend article on the Skyrim PS3 lag issue, we analysed the performance of the game running from a fresh save compared to a crippled 65 hour game, and then put the new patch through its paces - and found it wanting.
Our best theory on why it happened at all came down to the notion of an unbounded game world with thousands upon thousands of objects having to be tracked as they moved from their default positions as the player moved through the game. It's an enormous undertaking to store all of this information, and of the three platforms Skyrim is available for, it's the PlayStation 3 that presents the most challenges from a memory management perspective.

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Frankfurt2176d ago

The PS3's split memory pool explains it:

"The PS3 has a divided memory pool: 256 megs for system, 256 for graphics. It's the same total amount of memory, but not as flexible for a developer to make use of."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles...

T9002176d ago (Edited 2176d ago )

Well Sony didnt really listen to the developers when they were building the PS3. They just built the hardware then tossed it to the developers. It was an arrogant thing to do, and they probably did it because they reigned supreme in the PS2 era. It should be a lesson learned for any company not to ignore any aspect of the industry when making a new machine.

Now before PS3 fans start naming the PS3 exclusives that are done so well and start calling Bethesda lazy. I would beg to differ, most of the examples that can be drawn from PS3 exclusives are corridor style linear games. Bethesdas games aka Fallout Vegas, Skyrim are nothing like that. Its probably their open world aspect which is such a draw on the memory.

@below

I havent played infamous, but to bodies stay where they are after killed? or do items drop. Skyrim or Vegas both have thousands of items dropping from mobs, which none of the above games you mentioned have. Also Fallout and Skyrim have alot of dialogue which gets saved once you make a decision. All of that probably is a burden on the memory.

GribbleGrunger2176d ago (Edited 2176d ago )

infamous says hi, and red dead redemption had no lag problems either

shikamaroooo2176d ago

Its true playstation vita shows that there catering for gamers and developers now

ZombieAssassin2176d ago

Yea it's partly because of the split RAM, but honestly they could find a way around it..they're just lazy and are still using an almost decade old engine just with a new skin. I mean Fallout 3 for the 360 even had the problems Skyrim is having on Ps3, this time they just optimized the 360 version a little better because it's similar to a PC.

Like gribble said their have been open world games on ps3 that run just fine, admittedly they don't have to keep track of items the same way but like I said there are fixes for that.

lsujester2176d ago

Infamous and RDR are completely different types of open world. Neither of them have the sheer amount of possibilities that Skyrim does. Those games don't have to account for things you have or haven't picked up or moved to another location. The only things you collect in Infamous are blast shards and they are static... they are either in the one location or disappear when you touch them. RDR has even less because you really don't collect much of anything in that game. Even the vast amount of animals aren't accounted for.. they just reappear later if you come back.

Frankly the PS3 doesn't have any other games that compare with the scope of Skyrim (haven't played New Vegas). Part of the problem is definitely Bethesda, but part of it is definitely the PS3 architecture. As fast as some of the individual PS3 components are, some of the design aspects are rather odd.

Eiffel2176d ago

@GribbleGrunger

Because naturally Infamous and Red Dead Redemption are the same scope as Skyrim and New Vegas, right?

NoSuchUserName2176d ago

But what about Oblivion? Clearly the same scope as Skyrim, but without the game save related framerate drops. Atleast to my experience, and I played that around 100 hours. It's not like it can't be done on ps3.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2176d ago
raWfodog2176d ago

If you really think about this issue, then 'blame' for this has to be solely placed on Bethesda. The PS3 has always had split memory from the day dev kits were sent out to developers. This has not changed and was never given any indication that it would change. Maybe not a smart move on Sony's part but there it was.

Now Bethesda knew about this problem at least since Fallout NV it seems. But what do they do differently for their 'new' game engine? It sounds like they didn't do anything new. And now someone wants to point out that it's because of PS3's split memory as if this is a new revelation. That's just lazy development. Either optimize the code to work efficiently and accurately on the individual systems or just release the game as an exclusive on your system of preference. This was just greed, plain and simple. We were told that the game runs good on ALL the systems but that was just to hype it up for sales.

I'm so glad that I didn't pick this up for my PS3. I would have been even more pissed than I am now. I still plan on getting this for my 360 but not now. I'm gonna wait a long time until the ultimate edition comes out with all the DLC and then wait until its dirt cheap so they get as less money from me as I can bear :)

christheredhead2176d ago (Edited 2176d ago )

Im not defending them or saying bethesda is correct, but even with all the issues they've had with the ps3 (oblivion, fallout, fallout NV) gamers STILL demanded skyrim on ps3. You would think most would be a little cautious. Yet, every time its the same thing with complaints, bugs and glitches. At some point you have to be a smart consumer, I dont mean you, just generally speaking. People expect their games to run at a functional level, but this is not a perfect world.

Its as if gamers have two separate standards that only apply to gaming. If you purchased a product and it always had issues, why would you continue buying it? I find gamers complaints rather shallow seeing as how this is the fourth time bethesda (and obsidian) had an issue with the ps3. I dont blame them. I blame the gamers and consumers for repeatedly buying their game then handing out the same complaint 4 times in a row.

raWfodog2176d ago (Edited 2176d ago )

@christheredhead

You're right in that the average Bethesda gamer should have known about the history of Bethesda software and the PS3 not always playing well together. If you've known anything about the history and that Bethesda prefers the 360 then you should have been extra cautious or wary of buying this game for the PS3.

But what if you were a casual gamer recently converted to more serious gaming and didn't play past versions of TES games? (Hey, it could happen...) You would pick up the product, in this case for the PS3, get it home and maybe start having serious issues with it 60, 65 hours into the game. The average consumer would expect the developer or manufacturer of any type of product to either reimburse their money or fix the issue. Agree?

On another note, Obsidian did such a good job of porting Oblivion to the PS3 that many argue it was even better than the 360 version, in small ways. I would listen to them on this issue because it seems they know what they're talking about better than Bethesda.

And I still can't wait to play this game...on the 360 :)

GribbleGrunger2176d ago (Edited 2176d ago )

this is nonsense. Skyrim isn't real people. when you are in the North, those poly people in the South, East and West are not still goiing about their business. they are just numbers, byte sized info easily stored on the hard drive. why would they need to be stored in 'active' memory?

lsujester2176d ago

Because most of the time, the system always needs to know the changes you've made. Being as so many objects can be placed virtually anywhere, it stands to reckon that the system needs to keep track of them in case they are supposed to be where you are at that very moment. Case in point.. companions. They can be absolutely anywhere at anytime, so they have to stay in memory at all times to account for where they are. And therefore it also has to account for if they are alive, where they are at, what they are carrying, etc. That sort of info has to be readily accessible, and you can't do that efficiently going directly to the hard drive.

NoSuchUserName2176d ago

Not likely, their state would probably only need to be loaded when they entered the same area, but whether they are in the vicinity or not could be checked against data on disk once in a while.

lsujester2176d ago

Seems logical enough to me. I'm not a programmer, though, so who knows?

TLG19912176d ago

people saying its this split mem on the ps3 is just bullcrap!

every other game is fine its just Bethesda games, does that not ring alarm bells. its because they couldn't be bothered figuring out how to utilise and program on the ps3. its as simple as that.

ECM0NEY2176d ago

No other PS3 games are like Skyrim. In my game there are dead bodies still laying around from when I was lvl 10, I am now lvl 62. No other game does that.

We all know Sony screwed up on some design decisions on the PS3.

theonlylolking2176d ago

That is the problem. You should not have dead bodies from when you are lvl 10 to lvl 62. The loot they drop is bad and is a burden on the system. On the 360(which I play it on) they usually disappear after 120 skyrim hours.

TLG19912176d ago

that doesn't matter when you go away from the bodies your piling up they aren't still there and being computed they are numbers and saved to spawn when you return. that's like saying i have a load of game saves so it will affect all my other games because there's to many? (kind of lol)

and there are many more games that are much more demanding on ps3 than skyrim, i dont play it on ps3 i play on pc but i also play alot of ps3 games and i still say if some of these other games can do it on ps3 its bethesdas problem

Focus2176d ago

Future-proof my foot. To the people comparing inFAMOUS to SKYRIM, lol, are you serious?? When was the last time you spent 200 hrs in inFAMOUS discovering new content and an ever-changing world influenced by your decisions?
Ps3 is the reason GTA V won't be dynamic. . .in fact, PS3 may have been the reason for no towns in FF13, not enough RAM.

stonecold32176d ago

nope the towns were removed because of the 360 it wasnt nothing to do with ps3

green2176d ago

I find that extremely hard to believe because we have seen JRPG's like Lost Odyssey that are larger and way better than FF13 that have towns. ANd why is it that FF13-2 is just one disk on the 360 and has towns?

FF13 was already at an advanced stage before the 360 version was announced which means the design decesions in the game had already been made.

If anything was cut its only square enix that knows but it aint anything to do with the the 360

Christopher2176d ago (Edited 2176d ago )

1. FFXIII cut out towns so they could make FFXIII-2. Nothing to do with platforms.

2. FFXIII-2 is only one disc on the 360 because they are removing cut scenes and dialogue that goes with it. They are pretty much cutting back on video and audio elements, which is what takes up most space on the disc. This is definitely a sign of them developing for the lowest common denominator, but they are also doing it because they are cheap and won't have to pay voice actors or graphic artists to make those scenes.

In all honestly, the gamers are losing out because SE wants to make more money for less work.

Side note: They did remove the option for Japanese voice overs with English subtitles from the PS3 version solely because it also wasn't going to be available on the 360 version. This is about all you can say was removed from the game due to the 360.

dmonee2176d ago (Edited 2176d ago )

The lag has it's moments but, It comes with the territory. Skyrim is a very ambitious game. There were going to be comprimises when creating such a huge streaming world. There will be future updates trying to fix it. If the game was soley made on the PS3, there wouldn't be these issues. These things happen during the final year or so of a consoles lifespan. Common sense would tell you, that developers should be better at fixing these issues, but the reality is, with experience comes, risky attempts to milk the PS3 for all it's worth. Enjoy Skyrim for what it is and look foward to future iterations of Elder Scrolls game on next gen machines. Hope that these issues get squared away in the future.

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